Machine vision application

[Craig Bossard]

Hi makers,

I want to setup some industrial automation using machine vision. I know there are open source options. Is there a community that uses vision here? Is there a good place to start?

Thanks,
Craig Bossard

[Dan Hockey]

Have you heard of opencv?

https://opencv.org/

[Tim-S]

A couple of people have played with Tensorflow and picam's.

[Ray Scheufler]

What are you trying to sense?  Are you sure vision is the appropriate sensing mechanism?  Are you allowed to cheat and put retro reflective tape on parts?

The FRC team I mentored used GRIP https://github.com/WPIRoboticsProjects/GRIP to do vision processing.  It is just a GUI wrapper around openCV.  It is rather optimized for the FRC game having good vision targets with retro tape.

Ray Scheufler

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Tim-S <t.she...@gmail.com> wrote:

A couple of people have played with Tensorflow and picam's.

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[Craig Bossard]

I'm trying to measure height of a part. An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

[beernutz]

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

[Bailey Steinfadt]

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[beernutz]

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Bailey Steinfadt]

Eh, mine's still pretty generic because I'm at work. I can help out more at electronics club next month or an open house after the art show. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Ray Scheufler]

I'll make it more specific for you then.

I think I'd still recommend using GRIP.  It provides a nice wrapper around OpenCV and gives you nice sliders to play with.

The basic workflow will be to take a frame, filter by color / light (HSV or HSL filter), erode (makes things smaller, eliminates small noise), dilate (makes things bigger, restores the items remaining from the erode), find contours, possibly fitler contours, publish data.

GRIP can export this pipeline as a python file which then is really easy to supply frame and get result out.  I would recommend doing some hand calibration to establish a pixel value -> length.  I'd ignore all math and just use some know calibration points to figure it out.  Again, this requires some good contrast so that your HSV / HSL filter can be setup properly.

Ray Scheufler

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eh, mine's still pretty generic because I'm at work. I can help out more at electronics club next month or an open house after the art show. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Craig Bossard]

Is there a camera I should start with?

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:41 AM Ray Scheufler <dr.bob....@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll make it more specific for you then.

I think I'd still recommend using GRIP.  It provides a nice wrapper around OpenCV and gives you nice sliders to play with.

The basic workflow will be to take a frame, filter by color / light (HSV or HSL filter), erode (makes things smaller, eliminates small noise), dilate (makes things bigger, restores the items remaining from the erode), find contours, possibly fitler contours, publish data.

GRIP can export this pipeline as a python file which then is really easy to supply frame and get result out.  I would recommend doing some hand calibration to establish a pixel value -> length.  I'd ignore all math and just use some know calibration points to figure it out.  Again, this requires some good contrast so that your HSV / HSL filter can be setup properly.

Ray Scheufler

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eh, mine's still pretty generic because I'm at work. I can help out more at electronics club next month or an open house after the art show. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Ray Scheufler]

Not especially.  Any generic USB webcam should be fine.  You could also go with an etherent camera if you want the processing to be done somewhere other than nearby.

The FRC team used this USB camera and it worked well.  You may be able to find it cheaper on amazon, this was just where I knew I would find one.
http://www.andymark.com/Microsoft-Lifecam-HD-3000-Camera-p/am-3025.htm

Ray Scheufler

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 12:01 PM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is there a camera I should start with?

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:41 AM Ray Scheufler <dr.bob....@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll make it more specific for you then.

I think I'd still recommend using GRIP.  It provides a nice wrapper around OpenCV and gives you nice sliders to play with.

The basic workflow will be to take a frame, filter by color / light (HSV or HSL filter), erode (makes things smaller, eliminates small noise), dilate (makes things bigger, restores the items remaining from the erode), find contours, possibly fitler contours, publish data.

GRIP can export this pipeline as a python file which then is really easy to supply frame and get result out.  I would recommend doing some hand calibration to establish a pixel value -> length.  I'd ignore all math and just use some know calibration points to figure it out.  Again, this requires some good contrast so that your HSV / HSL filter can be setup properly.

Ray Scheufler

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eh, mine's still pretty generic because I'm at work. I can help out more at electronics club next month or an open house after the art show. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Bailey Steinfadt]

Do you need video or stills? How fast do you need a height returned? How are you triggering your image capture?  

[Bailey Steinfadt]

Oh, and if your company is paying for it, we use a light curtain here to measure plant height as they run down a conveyor. Bunch of emitters on one side, corresponding sensors on the other. When something passes through, you take the height of the last sensor up the bar that turned off as the object went through. 

[beernutz]

Now that is my kind of solution!  Simple and elegant!

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, and if your company is paying for it, we use a light curtain here to measure plant height as they run down a conveyor. Bunch of emitters on one side, corresponding sensors on the other. When something passes through, you take the height of the last sensor up the bar that turned off as the object went through. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:12 PM Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you need video or stills? How fast do you need a height returned? How are you triggering your image capture?  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eh, mine's still pretty generic because I'm at work. I can help out more at electronics club next month or an open house after the art show. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Craig Bossard]

I would be into that.  I need 0.01" resolution.  Could I get that?  Stills.  Can take a minute if I can run it unattended. Was going to use a pick and place with a jig to set the part.  I don't have any of the stuff currently. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Now that is my kind of solution!  Simple and elegant!

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, and if your company is paying for it, we use a light curtain here to measure plant height as they run down a conveyor. Bunch of emitters on one side, corresponding sensors on the other. When something passes through, you take the height of the last sensor up the bar that turned off as the object went through. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:12 PM Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you need video or stills? How fast do you need a height returned? How are you triggering your image capture?  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eh, mine's still pretty generic because I'm at work. I can help out more at electronics club next month or an open house after the art show. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Ray Scheufler]

.01" resolution with discrete sensors is going to be lots of sensors.  I'd guess that vision is going to be cheaper / easer.

Now we know the resolution, what about the range?  Sensing 0.01" differences between parts that are all within .5" of each other is very different than sensing differences between parts that are all within 6" of each other.  The overall length of the part doesn't really matter because you can drop part of it out of the frame and get close enough to just see the variance in the part.

Have any picutres of the thing in question?  I think between the people participating in this thread we have enough ideas that we can go in many different diretions.  We probably need some focus to help keep us on track.

Ray Scheufler

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would be into that.  I need 0.01" resolution.  Could I get that?  Stills.  Can take a minute if I can run it unattended. Was going to use a pick and place with a jig to set the part.  I don't have any of the stuff currently. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Now that is my kind of solution!  Simple and elegant!

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, and if your company is paying for it, we use a light curtain here to measure plant height as they run down a conveyor. Bunch of emitters on one side, corresponding sensors on the other. When something passes through, you take the height of the last sensor up the bar that turned off as the object went through. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:12 PM Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you need video or stills? How fast do you need a height returned? How are you triggering your image capture?  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eh, mine's still pretty generic because I'm at work. I can help out more at electronics club next month or an open house after the art show. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for being more helpful than i was Bailey.  I tend to be overly general with my answers.  I will work on that.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Bailey Steinfadt <runne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've done post-processing to find height. If your camera is at a fixed height, you can calibrate it with a ruler, then just map heights to pixels in your image. Like Scott said, if you have a good contrast between part and background, you can run an edge detection filter on the image and grab the tallest edge in your area of interest. 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:25 AM beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you are able to control the background color and relative placement of the part, it should not be too hard to calculate the height i would think.  

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Craig Bossard <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to measure height of a part.  An industrial company suggested imaging, and I remembered opencv is a thing. I will have a jig and I don't need to be extremely accurate.01". I just need to look at those libraries I guess.

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[Benjamin Miller]

The easiest solution is probably to use an ultrasonic distance sensor placed above your object.

They have a resolution of 0.3cm, which is approximately 0.0118". 

If the part has a flat top and this is not good enough, a laser distance solution will be more accurate.

- Benjamin Miller <b...@benjamintmiller.com>
________________________________________
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
    - Antoine de Saint-Exup'ery, In Design

[Craig Bossard]

I have images. How do I post them?

[Ray Scheufler]

You should just be able to attach them. With email it is normal. Through the web I don't know, there should be an attach button.

Ray Scheufler 

On Oct 14, 2017 6:03 PM, "Craig Bossard" <craigb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have images.  How do I post them?

[Craig Bossard]

The discs are 3.5 - 4.0".

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[Bailey Steinfadt]

Wow... Hey... How about I make November electronics night all about machine vision. We can use your project as a use case to explore. There's a lot of things that will change depending on context, and this is an interesting example. (And that gives us time after this art show to do some research!)

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[Craig Bossard]

I'd love it.  I don't have a pick and place selected either, so tons to learn.