Thoughts on upgrading rostock max v2?

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beernutz

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Sep 28, 2017, 11:39:15 PM9/28/17
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So i have had my max together for a couple years now, but have not really gotten the use out of it i would like.  There are a couple reasons for this:

1)  The bed height calibration has continued to elude me.  I am certain i am just doing something wrong, but i have not gotten deep enough into all the variables to figure out what.

2)  It currently sits right next to me, and is LOUD when it prints.

Soooooo, after reading some more, i have seen some of the possible upgrades that might help with both issues.

It looks like there are some really nice leveling kits now. One of the ones i have been looking at is:
https://www.duet3d.com/DuetAddons/DeltaSmartEffector

They also have a control board that allows direct Ethernet connection so i can stick the sucker in the next room.

My max is currently all stock parts.  I would really like to upgrade the unit with the Ethernet board as well:
https://www.duet3d.com/DuetEthernet

My problem is that i really don't know what ELSE i will need to upgrade.  I don't even know what questions i need to ask:
Do i need a new hotend with this as well?  
Do i need the magball arms?  
Are these easily installed?
What is the winning lottery number?

Could really use some advise/guidance pretty please.  8)

That Kid

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Sep 29, 2017, 3:16:30 PM9/29/17
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I would recommend the DuetEthernet, I’ve had a DuetWifi for over a year now in mine and it has been great. If you want to make use of the auto-calibration+mesh leveling routines, you’ll need some kinda probe. I use the FSR style probe because its less sensitive to effector tilt (dc42 has gone into this on the duet3d forum), but they also have an IR probe that you can get from Duet3d, but it requires a surface that works with it and it is more sensitive to effector tilt since typically it isn’t in-line with the hotend. There are other methods, but I think the consensus is those are the best.

As an FYI, that effector needs magnetic ball arms+new vertical carriages. I would instead recommend the tricklaser carbon fiber arms, you wouldn’t need a new effector/carriages as long as you have the newer SeeMeCNC ball cup arms. If you don’t just reply back and I’ll give you some options if you like.

You don’t NEED anything new, but IMO it doesn’t always hurt to upgrade. If you want to you can upgrade any of those, or not. BTW, what parts do you have on it right now? Does it have the old laser cut vertical carriages or the new injection molded ones, does it have the old hotend with the PEEK heatbreak or the new “All metal” hotend, and does it have the really cold aluminum u-joints, the slightly newer acetal u-joints, or the new ball-cup design? Some of these should “really” be upgraded, ex: The older u-joints have arms that are 269mm long, vs the ball cup design’s arms are ~300mm. This extra length makes it easier to level/gives you a bigger build area.

Also, the new duets have really nice stepper drivers that can interpolate 16 microsteps to 256 microsteps, that should help with noise.

Winning lottery numbers: 8 - 42 - 18 - 27 - 31 - 5


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beernutz

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Sep 29, 2017, 4:15:59 PM9/29/17
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Wow, I did not even know that FSR's existed!  That sounds like a really nice way to go!

Currently, all of my build uses the laser cut melamine parts, and the PEEK hotend.  It is ALL completely stock.  I would REALLY like to upgrade as much as possible and reasonable at once.

So if i am following things correctly, the list currently looks like this?

Here is a picture of the completed build that SHOULD be zoomable enough to illustrate what the arms and hot end are like:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hRbjUznNIzviu3ooEw3wpQ-XWmJhxpbV4A




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That Kid

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Sep 30, 2017, 12:19:19 AM9/30/17
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Thats a bit older, some of the newer V2s started shipping the ball cup arms and the HE2800 hotend so I wanted to be sure.

I forgot, but SMCNC also sells an accelerometer probe thats also pretty neat.

The old SMCNC hotend isn’t great IMO. I don’t have any experience with the new HE280 design, but it seems fine from what I’ve heard. I would also recommend the E3D V6 or the Prometheus V2. I have a prometheus on mine, but it is not the cheapest thing to buy. I bought it because of some experimentation I was wanting to try, so I would probably recommend saving a few $$ by going with the E3D or the HE280. The nice thing about the HE280 is SMCNC sells a kit with everything you need so you don’t have to print anything to mount the hotend or worry too much about a wiring harness, but the E3D is a better hotend IMO.

For the arms and carriages, the new SMCNC ones are fine, plus they are in stock more often. I wanted to be a bit fancy (plus I like the rigidity of the CF arms over the nylon+GF arms) so I purchased the CF arms I linked before plus the “Trick Trucks” (commonly out of stock) and then I printed an effector that holds 3 of those squirrel cage fans that SMCNC sells. Tricklaser also sells an aluminum effector if you want to go crazy. If money is tight, or you don’t want to be too frivolous, I would go with the SMCNC stuff.

Also, be wary that the LCD controller you have on right now isn’t compatible with the duet AFAIK. I think there are some pins that *can* match up functionality-wise, but the MCU on the duet runs on 3.3v vs the 5v of that LCD. You can get a panel due, but I don’t think its necessary. The mounting plate I use is printed, and there are more designs that you can find that also accommodate the panel due if you decide to go with it. FYI, the older duet 0.85 has the same mounting hole pattern as the new duets, so some older mounts may be compatible.



On Sep 29, 2017, at 3:15 PM, beernutz <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wow, I did not even know that FSR's existed!  That sounds like a really nice way to go!

Currently, all of my build uses the laser cut melamine parts, and the PEEK hotend.  It is ALL completely stock.  I would REALLY like to upgrade as much as possible and reasonable at once.

So if i am following things correctly, the list currently looks like this?

Here is a picture of the completed build that SHOULD be zoomable enough to illustrate what the arms and hot end are like:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hRbjUznNIzviu3ooEw3wpQ-XWmJhxpbV4A
<IMG_20150418_051809.jpg>


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beernutz

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Sep 30, 2017, 6:57:05 PM9/30/17
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Ok, so this looks like the current list of things to purchase if i am understanding things right.

Decided to take your advice and stick with the HE280 with the leveling all built in.  I may end up changing out the hot end later, but this looks like the best bet currently for me.

Assumptions:
  1. I can find a decent mount for both the Duet and the 7" panel.  Your board mount looks like it has me covered for the Duet, but not sure about the panel.  Went with the 7" because "why not"..  8)
  2. I can find some time on a working printer to print said mount.
  3. I am not missing something or forgetting something else.  lol.
  4. I will ever win the lottery if i don't buy a ticket.  8)
Thank you for your patience and guidance so far.  I appreciate it greatly!


Stuff to upgrade rostock max 2.0
SMCNC carriageshttps://www.seemecnc.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/injection-molded-cheapskate-carriage-set
$39.00
SMCNC armshttps://www.seemecnc.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/rostock-max-ball-cup-delta-arm-kit
$39.00
SMCNC HE280 hotendhttps://www.seemecnc.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/he280-hotend-with-accelerometer-probe?variant=22528153988
$140.00
Wiring whiphttps://www.seemecnc.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/assembled-hotend-whip-for-accelerometer-hotends?variant=22529876676
$25.00
Duet Wifihttps://www.filastruder.com/collections/electronics/products/duet-wifi
$169.99
Panel Duehttps://www.filastruder.com/collections/electronics/products/paneldue?variant=16552844420
$94.99








========


$507.98

That Kid

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Oct 1, 2017, 4:00:40 AM10/1/17
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I’m not sure about the wiring whip, I think it might be (length wise) for the V3, so you may have to do some wire splicing. The list looks fine to me otherwise.

A few extra things, the Duet uses different crimp connectors than the RAMBo. My plan (yet to be enacted) is to buy the same connectors that come on the RAMBo and desolder the old and put on the new because I really like the locking style. The board comes with matching connectors/crimps so you can probably just cut and recrimp and save a few $$.

You’re going to want to make sure the frame is as square as possible. Even the best delta auto calibration routine can only do so much if the towers aren’t square. I used a wixey digital angle gauge, but a big carpenter’s square clamped to the tower can probably accomplish the same thing with more effort. Ideally they would be square on all sides (difficult to measure and adjust) and free from any sort of twisting that would cause the carriages to be angled incorrectly (even more difficult to measure and adjust), so just do your best. If you get pretty close and your probe is dialed in consistently then the software should be able to pick up the slack.

I looked around on thingiverse and found just about all of the pre-designed options for the V2. I’ve listed more details below, but I think the best shot is the top mounting one, though that may not be something you’ll like since it may require significant rewiring (though with the new hotend/probe you may be rewiring the towers anyway). Depending on how much time you have to print, I might suggest printing off 2-3 so if the one you like best won’t work you still can swap in one that may if you’re mid-teardown.

Questionable bottom mount for PanelDue: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1982645 (does this thing have an SD card slot/does it fit the PD 2.0?)
Simple and one piece, but no idea how it fits (not originally designed for panel due), plus no SD slot: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1614045
Good bet for working, but multiple pieces that are confusing/hard to print: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1672014 (includes duet mount)
Designed for your stuff, but the design lends itself more to laser cutting than 3D printing: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2520524

beernutz

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Oct 1, 2017, 6:38:48 PM10/1/17
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Ok, so the trigger has been pulled.  I may try the "cardboard box" method of housing the board and display so that i can "bootstrap" the printer and print a working housing.

Though i am not looking forward to a complete teardown, it WILL be nice to get things all upgraded and in a state that makes it easier to use.

Thank you so much for your help and guidance!  I will send updates as things progress.  8)


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That Kid

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Oct 5, 2017, 8:01:27 PM10/5/17
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Something I forgot, the accelerometer probe isn’t a simple analog/digital probe, it works over I2C. I found some discussion on how to adapt it for duet use on the SMCNC forums. Looks like you’ll need an additional electronics board and potentially some additional wire to wire connectors. I’m also including a link to a blog post made by the op of the thread.


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beernutz

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Oct 5, 2017, 10:22:39 PM10/5/17
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Hmmm  ok..  It does not look too hard to wire up the controller.  He decided to not use it due to changing beds?  I am guessing that won't affect me as i am keeping the same bed.

The files he lists are for the V3 max build tho.  I am not sure what modifications will have to be made for the V2 i have.

That Kid

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Oct 5, 2017, 10:26:41 PM10/5/17
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Print files or software files? If its an STL designed for the V3, it probably won’t fit but if its just the software it should be fine.

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beernutz

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Oct 5, 2017, 10:30:43 PM10/5/17
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Ya, i think it was all software.  Have the tiny ordered.

beernutz

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Oct 14, 2017, 3:31:53 AM10/14/17
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So, small update and a question:  i got all the parts, and they appear to be good.  I am working on assembling the hot end from the parts now.  I had to open a ticket for clarification due to differences in board rev and layout, but i think i am ready for the "solder it all down" step now, so assuming the rest is good, the print head should be assembled shortly.

I got the tiny and tossed a blink program on it to test, then compiled and installed his code on it.  Should i be worried about his note saying he has "moved on" from that adapter and the method entirely and no longer recommends or supports it?
http://www.sublimelayers.com/2016/12/converting-seemecnc-rostock-max-v3-to.html

That Kid

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Oct 14, 2017, 3:37:17 AM10/14/17
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I failed to notice that before. As long as you only have one bed you should be ok, he was having problems because he likes to switch out his bed between prints. If you have a lot of problems with reliability then you can switch to the FSRs later, but since you have it I would try to use it. FSRs are pretty cheap anyway.

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