Any good DIY vortexer designs out there?
ByoWired
it's strikes me that vortexers cost too much money, even on ebay,
where some of them look like something from a horror movie. I poked
around looking for DIY versions and the only thing I could find are
some DIY magnetic stir bar systems, but what I'm talking about are
those gadgets you press your microtube onto and they vibrate like
crazy until your pellet is resuspended. Anybody know of, or have
suggestions for, a DIY version?
John Griessen
> suggestions for, a DIY version?
Get it off a dead cell phone?
Then you have the rubber part of a vortexer -- that's the hard part.
Think of where to get a shape like that...
JG
Russell Whitaker
This has been discussed a few places. I think the short answer is
yes: adapt a Dremel Tool.
--
Russell Whitaker
http://twitter.com/OrthoNormalRuss
http://orthonormalruss.blogspot.com/
Nathan McCorkle
Do you think that's enough power? A makerbot could print something easily.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "DIYbio" group.
> To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio?hl=en.
>
>
--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformatics
ByoWired
On Oct 11, 10:54 pm, Russell Whitaker <russell.whita...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> This has been discussed a few places. I think the short answer is
> yes: adapt a Dremel Tool.
>
been googling Dremel and vortexer, etc. and so far I've found nothing
even remotely close.
ByoWired
On Oct 11, 11:33 pm, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A makerbot could print something easily.
>
part. Can Makerbots print thin flexible rubber parts?
Jonathan Street
If you do need a little flexibility you could always line the heads with some sugru or a similar product.
--
John Griessen
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:53 PM, John Griessen<jo...@industromatic.com> wrote:
>> cell phone vibration motor with built in eccentric weight.
Well.... He said micro-tube... So the power dissipated is going to be in the
contact flex rubber thingy, not in the laminar flow swirl and wall friction in the tube.
On 10/12/2010 10:51 AM, Jonathan Street wrote:
> Most of the vortexers I've used over the past few years have used hard rubber heads.
The flex part on my old school one keeps spills from going inside. You give me an idea.
Make a mushroom shaped rubber button head, and make a spill guard to go under it, such
that the head screws on after the spill guard drops in place... A lathe project.
the head would be free to twirl though...
The desirable thing for a vortexer head is to have good grip so you can choose a location
to put the tip of your test tube or micro-tube on for different amounts of radius
to stir with. It also can't spin with the shaft of the motor driving it -- it needs
a bearing to let the head not rotate or it can't grip.
On 10/12/2010 10:45 AM, ByoWired wrote:
>> yes: adapt a Dremel Tool.
> Do you have any links to this or any specifics on the design? I've
> been googling Dremel and vortexer, etc. and so far I've found nothing
My old school vortexer runs at 10 or 15 Hz, nowhere near the usual dremel
tool's 10K RPM --> 166 Hz. They must be talking a bout speed controllable
dremel tools. I would not want to do without my power tools -- would rather have
a dedicated vortexer.
There's no plastic for Makerbots that is rubbery so far.
John Griessen
Russell Whitaker
[SNIP]
>
> On 10/12/2010 10:45 AM, ByoWired wrote:
>> Do you have any links to this or any specifics on the design? I've
>> been googling Dremel and vortexer, etc. and so far I've found nothing
>
No links, looked for them myself. When I made the suggestion, I was passing
on a tidbit I'd heard someone mention in hallway conversation a couple of
months ago at the Open Science Summit in Berkeley.
> My old school vortexer runs at 10 or 15 Hz, nowhere near the usual dremel
> tool's 10K RPM --> 166 Hz. They must be talking a bout speed controllable
> dremel tools. I would not want to do without my power tools -- would rather
> have a dedicated vortexer.
>
Yes, variable speed of course. There are plenty of suppliers out there for
hobbyists needing cheap, variable speed brushless DC motors. One needn't
cannibalize a valuable tool for parts, though to the best of my recollection,
the guy talking about the Dremel application seemed to be talking about
a temporary (clamp?) mount for the Dremel itself, and some kind of cam/offset
driver to the vortexer attachment. That's all I can recall.
> There's no plastic for Makerbots that is rubbery so far.
>
> John Griessen
>
--
John Griessen
> the guy talking about the Dremel application seemed to be talking about
> a temporary (clamp?) mount for the Dremel itself, and some kind of cam/offset
> driver to the vortexer attachment.
The dremel tool chuck is a standard size 1/8 inch so it can clamp on a tool shaft.
The essence of a vortexer is a ball bearing offset on a shaft with a rubber head covering that.
The offset on my test tube vortexer is about 7mm, so for microtubes you may want less offset.
If you clamp a dremel to a table edge aimed up, and load it with such a tool,
you'd be ready to go, then undo clamps, unchuck special vortexer head tool, put away.
I'll make a sketch if you don't see it.
John
Russell Whitaker
> On 10/12/2010 02:14 PM, Russell Whitaker wrote:
>>
>> the guy talking about the Dremel application seemed to be talking about
>> a temporary (clamp?) mount for the Dremel itself, and some kind of
>> cam/offset
>> driver to the vortexer attachment.
>
> The dremel tool chuck is a standard size 1/8 inch so it can clamp on a tool
> shaft.
>
You're right, of course, and my wording was loose. I've owned a few and should
have been more careful in my description of the base tool.
> The essence of a vortexer is a ball bearing offset on a shaft with a rubber
> head covering that.
> The offset on my test tube vortexer is about 7mm, so for microtubes you may
> want less offset.
>
I'm trying to find a good supplier for "offset hub ball bearings" -
I'm interested in
better answers myself - without much satisfaction, but I did stumble across a
generally interesting English-language "Ball Bearing Blog" maintained by a
Chinese vendor, FYI:
http://www.sxabearing-manufacturers.com/blog/
> If you clamp a dremel to a table edge aimed up, and load it with such a
> tool,
> you'd be ready to go, then undo clamps, unchuck special vortexer head tool,
> put away.
>
> I'll make a sketch if you don't see it.
>
I can see what you're talking about, but not everyone may. I'm sure
a sketch - with BOM (Bill of Materials) ;-) - would be greatly appreciated.
> John
>
Russell
Cathal Garvey
I'll design you an offset-bearing vortex script tomorrow, shouldn't be hard in OpenSCAD. I'll include parameters: just input measurements for bearings, desired cone shape and your motor shaft. I might even include an option to just give it a chuck so you can use it with a clamped drill. You can either print it on a local makerbot or order it, then.
What default settings would people like? What brand of bearing (include measurements in mm precisely please!)? Motor shaft?
---
Twitter: @onetruecathal
Sent from my beloved Android phone.
On 12 Oct 2010 21:08, "Russell Whitaker" <russell....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:38 PM, John Griessen <jo...@industromatic.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/2010 02:14...
You're right, of course, and my wording was loose. I've owned a few and should
have been more careful in my description of the base tool.
> The essence of a vortexer is a ball bearing offset on a shaft with a rubber
> head covering that....
I'm trying to find a good supplier for "offset hub ball bearings" -
I'm interested in
better answers myself - without much satisfaction, but I did stumble across a
generally interesting English-language "Ball Bearing Blog" maintained by a
Chinese vendor, FYI:
http://www.sxabearing-manufacturers.com/blog/
> If you clamp a dremel to a table edge aimed up, and load it with such a
> tool,
> you'd be ready ...
I can see what you're talking about, but not everyone may. I'm sure
a sketch - with BOM (Bill of Materials) ;-) - would be greatly appreciated.
> John
>
Russell
--
Russell Whitaker
http://twitter.com/OrthoNormalRuss
http://orthonormalruss.blogspot.com/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To post to...
Nathan McCorkle
> I'll design you an offset-bearing vortex script tomorrow, shouldn't be hard
> in OpenSCAD. I'll include parameters: just input measurements for bearings,
> desired cone shape and your motor shaft. I might even include an option to
> just give it a chuck so you can use it with a clamped drill. You can either
> print it on a local makerbot or order it, then.
>
> What default settings would people like? What brand of bearing (include
> measurements in mm precisely please!)? Motor shaft?
>
>
wait what do you need bearings for? if you printed an offset cam with
a clasp on it to hold a microtube, you could just sit the dremel
upright and be shakin... right? the dremel already has bearings in it.
Cathal Garvey
If you spin a fixed tube, you've got a centrifuge. The sample-mounting cone and the tube should retain the same orientation to the user during use, while the liquid moves within.
---
Twitter: @onetruecathal
Sent from my beloved Android phone.
On 12 Oct 2010 21:57, "Nathan McCorkle" <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll design you an ...
wait what do you need bearings for? if you printed an offset cam with
a clasp on it to hold a microtube, you could just sit the dremel
upright and be shakin... right? the dremel already has bearings in it.
--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformat...
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send e...
ByoWired
I'm a little confused now on what y'all are talking about. By
vortexer, I meant something like this (minus the horror show rust
theme):
http://cgi.ebay.com/SCIENTIFIC-PRODUCTS-VORTEX-GENIE-VORTEXER-MIXER-WORKS-/230236679681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item359b2cee01#ht_1003wt_1141
You press your microtube against the black rubber thing on top and in
a few seconds it mixes up the contents, suspends pellets, etc. while
you are still holding the microtube in your hand. You really don't
want anything else but your fingers to grip and hold onto a
microtube. You don't want anything to grip and spin the tube. And
for me it's sufficient to vortex just one microtube at a time. I was
wondering if there was a way to do this without lots of fuss. Also,
it seems to me that the rubbery part - or some sort of rubbery
interface - would be essential since I would guess that anything that
wasn't somewhat soft-ish would rattle the microtube out of your
hand.
Russell Whitaker
>
> I'm a little confused now on what y'all are talking about. By
> vortexer, I meant something like this (minus the horror show rust
> theme):
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/SCIENTIFIC-PRODUCTS-VORTEX-GENIE-VORTEXER-MIXER-WORKS-/230236679681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item359b2cee01#ht_1003wt_1141
>
> You press your microtube against the black rubber thing on top and in
> a few seconds it mixes up the contents, suspends pellets, etc. while
> you are still holding the microtube in your hand.
That's the type of thing *I* had in mind, yes, and it's the most common
variety I've used for years. I'm pretty sure others were thinking along
the same lines.
> You really don't
> want anything else but your fingers to grip and hold onto a
> microtube. You don't want anything to grip and spin the tube. And
> for me it's sufficient to vortex just one microtube at a time. I was
> wondering if there was a way to do this without lots of fuss. Also,
> it seems to me that the rubbery part - or some sort of rubbery
> interface - would be essential since I would guess that anything that
> wasn't somewhat soft-ish would rattle the microtube out of your
> hand.
>
Of course. Do know, however, that there are lots of vortexers out
there.
Let me back up and ask this question: is your constraint financial,
hence your interest in DIY alternatives? If so, what is the price point
below which rolling your own becomes less attractive than buying?
John Griessen
> I'll design you an offset-bearing vortex script tomorrow, shouldn't be hard in OpenSCAD. I'll include parameters: just input
> measurements for bearings, desired cone shape and your motor shaft. I might even include an option to just give it a chuck so you
> can use it with a clamped drill. You can either print it on a local makerbot or order it, then.
>
> What default settings would people like? What brand of bearing (include measurements in mm precisely please!)? Motor shaft?
I don't think plastic will work too well... but then, maybe for low speeds it would!
On 10/12/2010 05:12 PM, ByoWired wrote:
> I meant something like this (minus the horror show rust
> theme):
<grin> My vortexer is the same model. Funny. Very little rust though.
Designed for a 12 mm diameter test tube at a minimum, and for much bigger.
Here's the sketch Russ requested:
http://ecosensory.com/diybio/vortexer_crank-1.jpg
It assumes finding a steel crank in some small pump or what not, (I have a few
salvaged from air sampling pumps like miners would take down with them),
and then just some hardware store plumbing rubber bits.
Or make it on a lathe, or buy from some place like Small Parts Inc. or Engineering Findings.
Or think of what ordinary thing uses it and save from the trash.
The makerbot idea is just right for this kind of odd thing, but the shape in
my sketch is thin for a 1/8 inch steel shaft. Better to make the shaft stubby,
as big around as the crank plus some, and mount it to some other kind of motor.
Plastic mounts on a steel shaft easily as an interference fit jammed on.
The mount hole can be makerbot fabbed undersized, so it is a pilot hole for
the right size drill for the interference fit.
John
ByoWired
On Oct 12, 6:17 pm, Russell Whitaker <russell.whita...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Let me back up and ask this question: is your constraint financial,
> hence your interest in DIY alternatives? If so, what is the price point
> below which rolling your own becomes less attractive than buying?
>
little thing and all it does is vibrate like crazy, but the man wants
$100 for it and I'm sure it's little more than a motor with an unseen
something on its shaft.
John's sketch looks good. That's what I was guessing is hiding under
that rubber boot, something like that. But I was wondering if anyone
had actually made such a thing, and worked with it, since I'm sure
"how it feels" to the user has a lot to do with whether people are
happy with it or not. Design it right, and it suspends your pellets
fine and dandy. Design it wrong, and it launches your microtube
across the room. I got confused because somebody earlier talked about
Dremels and grips for the microtube and such, and then I thought maybe
"vortexer" might mean different things in different parts of the
world. :-)
John Griessen
> measurements for bearings, desired cone shape and your motor shaft. I might even include an option to just give it a chuck so you
> can use it with a clamped drill. You can either print it on a local makerbot or order it, then.
>
> What default settings would people like? What brand of bearing (include measurements in mm precisely please!)? Motor shaft?
>
I like the idea of a parameterized model for these parts...
I made another sketch of dimensions I think would work well with
makerbot ABS plastic, including my working knowledge of plastic stiffness
with lots of room for different interpretations. TAPR open hardware license just means
please keep it fully open for commercial use- any use, and please pass back
improvements to the developers.
http://ecosensory.com/diybio/vortexer_3DP_parts-1.jpg
This vortex mixer is an idea generator:
http://cgi.ebay.com/THERMOLYNE-16700-MIXER-MAXI-MIX-1-VORTEX-M16715-TESTED-/360309298389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e41b94d5
The top is some rubbery foam. You could just contact cement that on a cap on a bearing.
Does Makerbot ABS plastic bond with solvent glue at all?
John Griessen
PS here's another idea generator:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=290367638386
Sometimes vortexers are used to gently suspend solids for long times, hence the test tube clamps.
this is just a conglomeration of four of the original Vortex Genies so it must weigh a ton!
Nathan McCorkle
> Dremels and grips for the microtube and such, and then I thought maybe
> "vortexer" might mean different things in different parts of the
> world. :-)
>
well as far as i know, the vortexer tops we have here can be changed
to one that holds a microtube and you can shake untouched for a few
mins... like a labmate just told me that i should add zirconia beads
to a yeast culture and vortex for 10 mins to lyse the cells... i think
i may be able to get away with 3 or 4 minutes, but the point is, if I
need more than a few seconds, and have multiple samples, I want to do
them all at the same time.
--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformatics
Russell Whitaker
>
> Here's the sketch Russ requested:
>
> http://ecosensory.com/diybio/vortexer_crank-1.jpg
>
As a trained machinist (military, long ago) I especially appreciate the
"optional beer can shim" notation: you seem like someone who's actually
had to make stuff.
John Griessen
> It's not so much about money as it is - well, here's this simple
> little thing and all it does is vibrate like crazy, but the man wants
> $100 for it and I'm sure it's little more than a motor with an unseen
> something on its shaft.
Yes, it's a ripoff that's been happening all over.
It's mostly because of the small market size of scientific equipment.
That and buyers are big universities or well funded corporate labs
and they understand the market size and the swift obsolescence of some gear,
and don't mind the prices. Their researchers like the sleek new designs
of gear that takes up a small desktop footprint, who wouldn't as
the world grows more crowded and rent goes up everywhere?
Lately most electronic test equipment prices are way down for used
and that's driven by poor economy some and sending most all USA
manufacturing to asia. One of the Vortex Genies was $34 buy it now,
and the rest are probably those insane ebay junk sellers that
wait and wait and sell a few things at high prices. Scientific
instruments seem to be low too -- a Canadian I know that refurbs
spectrophotometers says its bad since February 2010.
I'm going to try making some cost conscious lab gear and see if that
makes for enough sales to non institutional scientists and amateurs
to keep it up. If not, the designs will be TAPR OHL, (a real open hardware license).
John Griessen
Russell Whitaker
>
> On Oct 12, 6:17 pm, Russell Whitaker <russell.whita...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Let me back up and ask this question: is your constraint financial,
>> hence your interest in DIY alternatives? If so, what is the price point
>> below which rolling your own becomes less attractive than buying?
>>
>
> It's not so much about money as it is - well, here's this simple
> little thing and all it does is vibrate like crazy, but the man wants
> $100 for it and I'm sure it's little more than a motor with an unseen
> something on its shaft.
>
Ah, OK, it's a "pride" thing for you then, not an "economics" thing.
Putting aside the economics of niche-market equipment, I'm curious:
how much is your time worth? Anyway, have you considered asking the
guy by eBay mail if, when the thing doesn't sell & goes off auction, he'd
take lower price you propose? Worth trying.
Russell Whitaker
>
> I'm going to try making some cost conscious lab gear and see if that
> makes for enough sales to non institutional scientists and amateurs
> to keep it up. If not, the designs will be TAPR OHL, (a real open hardware
> license).
>
Very cool! If you do that, you'll be a "Type 3" hero in my little taxonomy:
http://orthonormalruss.blogspot.com/2010/10/on-importance-of-sequenced-model.html
:-)
John Griessen
> if I
> need more than a few seconds, and have multiple samples, I want to do
> them all at the same time.
That makes me think of the larger top on the
vortexer. With a larger top, you could attach multiple rubber tubes of the right ID to
grip sample vials. With a larger top, you don't need a huge steel ball bearing,
just a big enough one to support a plastic plate with bosses to put rubber tubes on,
(made with a makerbot again), and something like the stabilizer spring steel strap
that is used in a classic Vortex Genie to keep the large vibrating platform oriented more or less.
On 10/12/2010 06:31 PM, Russell Whitaker wrote:
> you seem like someone who's actually
> had to make stuff.
I've never really "had to", I just like to. I learned my hand machining in the university
physics shop making stuff for fun for art's sake, and for my 58 MGA.
Now I'm involved in a local shared shop where my lathe should go soon, but it's
kind of stalled. That place has a benevolent dictator supposedly working on a CNC router,
but he isn't able to do it himself...and he won't delegate it all either.
I'm thinking a genuine cooperative with equal shares and less than ten
principals might work better. We had a local hackerspace renting at the same place
and they tend to be sooooo hands off, programmers only, I can't see enough benefit
cooperating with them.
On 10/12/2010 06:40 PM, Russell Whitaker wrote:
> Very cool! If you do that, you'll be a "Type 3" hero in my little taxonomy:
Yes, I read and liked your taxonomy of bio-science evolutionaries.
Some day I might do a little indep. investigating also.
John Griessen
ByoWired
On Oct 12, 7:38 pm, Russell Whitaker <russell.whita...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> guy by eBay mail if, when the thing doesn't sell & goes off auction, he'd
> take lower price you propose? Worth trying.
surplus market because of the crazy economy. But it would also be
cool if somebody could develop a cheap, elegant solution to what
appears to be a simple technological problem. If nothing else, this
economic downturn might yield some surprising techniques that make it
ever cheaper to do amazing things.
Russell Whitaker
Why not do it yourself? Seriously, why not? Usually the "somebody"
in these scenarios is one's self. Consider crowdsource funding like
Kickstarter:
John Griessen
> Why not do it yourself? Seriously, why not? Usually the "somebody"
> in these scenarios is one's self.
Yep. I'm a kickstarter member and will be doing some of those soon.
JG
Lawrence
vortex in my blog Citizen of Science http://citsci.blogspot.com/
I built it from an old blender I found. It is not the type you push
the tube down on and it starts to vibrate. You still have to push the
button down with your other hand. I do it in bursts. It works quite
well and is very simple to make.
Hope this helps.
Lawrence
Citizen of Science
http://citsci.blogspot.com/
On Oct 11, 10:48 pm, ByoWired <byowi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> it's strikes me that vortexers cost too much money, even on ebay,
> where some of them look like something from a horror movie. I poked
> around looking for DIY versions and the only thing I could find are
> some DIY magnetic stir bar systems, but what I'm talking about are
> those gadgets you press your microtube onto and they vibrate like
> crazy until your pellet is resuspended. Anybody know of, or have
ByoWired
On Oct 20, 1:11 am, Lawrence <lawrence_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This might be of interest to you. I just put an update on my DIY
> I built it from an old blender I found....
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this!
Hiro Protagonist
If you want to, check out a video of it in action on my fb page https://www.facebook.com/BLCMedical/
Am Dienstag, 12. Oktober 2010 04:48:50 UTC+2 schrieb ByoWired:
Hey all,
it's strikes me that vortexers cost too much money, even on ebay,
where some of them look like something from a horror movie. I poked
around looking for DIY versions and the only thing I could find are
some DIY magnetic stir bar systems, but what I'm talking about are
those gadgets you press your microtube onto and they vibrate like
crazy until your pellet is resuspended. Anybody know of, or have
suggestions for, a DIY version?
