Blood clot risk due to Corona vaccine
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Mike Petersen
Apr 2, 2021, 7:18:37 PM4/2/21
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Hello everyone, if you follow the current situation in Europe, you will notice what a mess it is with the Astrazenica vaccine. The cases of sinus vein thrombosis and fatal blood clots have caused it to be partially withdrawn and then reintroduced with restrictions.
There is great debate about not overstating the risk, but of course it is tragic for any individual to die from a fatal vaccine side effect.
Wouldn't it be much more scientific to investigate what factors came together in those affected and led to these effects. What do I gain by referring to the low probability that it could occur in me and relying only on statistics. Wouldn't it be much safer and more scientific to determine the individual risk based on biomarkers (blood values, genetic features, etc.). The question is whether information is available, for example, studies that show commonalities of those affected. Are any of you aware of anything on this?
There is great debate about not overstating the risk, but of course it is tragic for any individual to die from a fatal vaccine side effect.
Wouldn't it be much more scientific to investigate what factors came together in those affected and led to these effects. What do I gain by referring to the low probability that it could occur in me and relying only on statistics. Wouldn't it be much safer and more scientific to determine the individual risk based on biomarkers (blood values, genetic features, etc.). The question is whether information is available, for example, studies that show commonalities of those affected. Are any of you aware of anything on this?
Thank you,
Mike
Matt Endrizzi
Apr 2, 2021, 8:11:57 PM4/2/21
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Mike,
Perhaps this article might reveal some effort on this front, and the names of those involved.
Matt
On Apr 2, 2021, at 7:18 PM, 'Mike Petersen' via DIYbio <diy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hello everyone, if you follow the current situation in Europe, you will notice what a mess it is with the Astrazenica vaccine. The cases of sinus vein thrombosis and fatal blood clots have caused it to be partially withdrawn and then reintroduced with restrictions.
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drllau
Apr 3, 2021, 11:59:50 PM4/3/21
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I've heard there's 6-7K "rare" defects (or tendencies to disease) that collectively affect 1 in 17 westerners. It sucks but when the genetic lottery is against you there's not much you can do unless you're a billionaire boomer willing to have your lineage tested as part of any drug trial. There's still a long long way to go before personalised medicine, organ on a chip and computational metabolics can become a phase IV trial to eliminate such risks.
Mike Petersen
Apr 4, 2021, 4:44:29 PM4/4/21
to DIYbio
Hello Matt,
thank you for the article. That is very interesting that there is probably a connection with the immune system. I wonder why the blood clot incidents are mainly with the Astrazenica vaccine and not the m-RNA vaccines like Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna. At least I didn't hear anythin negative about the m-RNA vaccines.
Is it due to other ingredients in Astrazenica or the mechanism of action via the use of the vector virus?
In general, I am more sympathetic to the m-RNA vaccines than to the vector virus vaccines, because the vector virus vaccines manipulate the cell nucleus and carry DNA, it cannot be excluded that viral DNA fragments are integrated into the cell nucleus in my opinion. Any thoughts on that?
Is it due to other ingredients in Astrazenica or the mechanism of action via the use of the vector virus?
In general, I am more sympathetic to the m-RNA vaccines than to the vector virus vaccines, because the vector virus vaccines manipulate the cell nucleus and carry DNA, it cannot be excluded that viral DNA fragments are integrated into the cell nucleus in my opinion. Any thoughts on that?
Mike Petersen
Apr 4, 2021, 4:53:52 PM4/4/21
to DIYbio
Thank you for your answer drllau,
I think we are just on the threshold of personalized medicine. I did a 23andme test many years ago and am thinking about doing full genome sequencing.
With the 23andme raw data alone, I have an overview of tens of thousands of SNPs. Maybe this will give me some knowledge about whether I might fall into a risk class regarding the occurrence of adverse vaccine reactions.
For the risk of getting a severe corona disease, there are already numerous studies that determine which genetic variants lead to a higher risk on the basis of molecular genetic data.
For example this one:
With the 23andme raw data alone, I have an overview of tens of thousands of SNPs. Maybe this will give me some knowledge about whether I might fall into a risk class regarding the occurrence of adverse vaccine reactions.
For the risk of getting a severe corona disease, there are already numerous studies that determine which genetic variants lead to a higher risk on the basis of molecular genetic data.
For example this one:
Matt Endrizzi
Apr 4, 2021, 6:37:18 PM4/4/21
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Mike,
This is definitely outside my area of expertise but I suspect the thrombosis is a result of some other protein associated with the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is an adenovirus edited with the SARS-CoV2 spike protein gene ( ChAdOx1 NCoV-19), while the Moderna and Pfizer-BioNtech vaccines contain a much simpler genetic construct containing only part of the mRNA transcribed from the SARS-CoV2 spike protein gene.
This article describes the other transcription activity, aside from the SARS-CoV2 spike protein, associated with the AstraZeneca vaccine:
From what I’ve read briefly, the rest of the ingredients in the AstraZeneca vaccine have been used in prior vaccines. The adenovirus used is a new thing, so I suspect that is the culprit.
My take away is that mRNA vaccines will be the vaccines of the future if their immune boost lasts as well as prior vaccines. People can make them really fast, run huge amounts of trials, and lab technicians will not handle live virus except for those doing the initial harvesting and sequencing. I imagine it’ll be a lot cheaper, too.
Matt
On Apr 4, 2021, at 4:53 PM, 'Mike Petersen' via DIYbio <diy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/4fe4975f-2ff8-47fe-97cc-09cdd8db2209n%40googlegroups.com.
Tom De Medts
Apr 4, 2021, 10:45:08 PM4/4/21
to DIYbio
Cryo storage and supply chain is IMO the only real challenge for current mRNA vaccines -80C for both Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech.
And that will preclude it's application to parts of the world where such facilities are just not feasible now or even in the near future...
If that requirement can be downgraded from -80C to -20C which is regular freezer temp., which I understand is work in progress already,
then mRNA vaccines will become way more competitive than now, and be as good or better than most legacy platforms - killed or attenuated or component vaccines.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/95CF7B60-8046-4359-B70F-3FBB4AC3B013%40gmail.com.
Mike Petersen
Apr 7, 2021, 1:53:14 PM4/7/21
to DIYbio
Hi Matt,
thank you for that information. I also think that the adenovirus is mainly responsible for the unwanted effect, even though it's unclear how the exaxt pathological mechanism may look like.
Personally I have a much higher tendency towards the mRNA vaccines due to the reasons you've described, since their mechanism means much less interference with the cellular genetics.
Mike Petersen
Apr 20, 2021, 4:16:49 PM4/20/21
to DIYbio
Hi, in addition to our conversation I found a new study that shines some light on the question whether mainly the astrazeneca vaccine might cause these problems:
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