Ah great, just found a small and safe gene therapy against herpes virus and similar skin viruses

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

and that by accident, actually searching for another topic. And by "great" I mean "oh crap". Because I have no idea how to get to try it and how to get it approved :P

It wouldn't integrate into mamalian genome, still be stably mantained a lifetime. But probably, you'll need a gene gun to put it into your skin cells. Or lipofusamin? No allergenic potential at all.

The fun thing is It's below 500 bp.

I guess still another project for archieving :P


If I ever caught that virus I'm so confident this is the perfect therapy, I would probably play guinea pig myself xD

 Or is there a way to work on this somehow?

[Bryan Bishop]

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Mega [Andreas Stuermer] <masters...@gmail.com> wrote:

But probably, you'll need a gene gun to put it into your skin cells

There are a lot of other options for transfection that are way less dangerous, such as electroporation. I don't recommend using a gene gun on yourself.

"""

Hydrodynamic delivery In mice and rats, but to a lesser extent in larger animals, DNA most often in plasmids, including transposons, can be delivered to the liver using hydrodynamic injection that involves infusion of a relatively large volume in the blood in less than 10 seconds; nearly all of the DNA is expressed in the liver by this procedure.[11][12][13]

"""

Anyway, there are a bunch of options.

- Bryan
http://heybryan.org/
1 512 203 0507

[Andreas Stuermer]

ah, thanks! still the regulatory issue

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[Geoff Ivison]

Thanks Fermat!

...just kidding. But is there any way you could share more details? Or do you want to keep it under wraps until you have a more developed idea... It sounds interesting as a concept

[dragoljub dimitrijevic]

Hello from Belgrade,

How about a tattoo gun instead of gene gun ?

No high speed gold or tungsten projectiles, just 5K+ years old human tradition :-)

 :-)

Cheers, Dragoljub

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[Xabier Vázquez Campos]

Not sure about how do you plan to do that, but the herpes simplex viruses stay dormant in neural ganglia. It's not just an issue with the skin affected during blistering

[Andreas Stuermer]

Yeah I'm aware of that.

Would really like to reveal it, but that's the problem of open projects. You can't possibly patent your method any longer then, because this is a public list. And someone may take the idea too.

Of course, if you don't reveal it you get no ideas at which institution to start, and the projects gets dormant and is never realized.

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[David Ng]

Find an expert and get them to sign a NDA.

-Dave

[Cathal (phone)]

Warning: experts hate NDAs and may flip you off.

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[Brian Degger]

Experts don't sign nda.
if it is an obvious idea, that could arrive easily,   it still give the nda holder the right to sue if he suspects that the expert has talked.. even if someone independently comes up with it in their group.

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[Dakota Hamill]

Definitely reach out to scientists in the field and run your idea by them, I've found that many are very willing to listen, and they all have their own things going on, so "stealing" the idea probably isn't likely to happen, but I guess that really depends on the type of person you speak with, and how concrete of a plan you really have.

People have said for a long time that "ideas" aren't really worth shit, it's the execution of an idea or plan into a tangible thing that is what really is important.  Granted, that second step takes time, money, and effort, but you'll never get the second one unless you ask for help.  If you are concerned about things getting into the public domain, then sure, tread with caution on a public email list.   I'm not familiar with how sensitive future IP claims are to things like email lists, or even journal articles.

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[Dakota Hamill]

As a followup, there was a young professor at my school (just finished post doc) who said that her husband, when in grad school, approached his advisor and wanted to discuss an idea with him he thought was really great.  The PI said to him, "if you really want to keep this for yourself, do not tell me, because if I can use it, publish it, get grant money for it, etc, I will".  I think they had a good relationship, he was just being honest.  When professors are fighting for tenure and grant money, I assume they'll try to get it however they can, at least at some of the really competitive schools.

If someone came to you today and gave you a 100% foolproof plan to make a million dollars within a month, then asked you to not pursue it because they wanted to, what would you do?  It's a hypothetical, but still a moral choice.  

In the end, I'd honestly rather the person not even tell me, especially if they were a friend or someone I knew well.

Maybe that is a bad analogy but, I assume it's a problem many people deal with, and some rightfully so.  In many cases, ideas people have which they think are worth millions, when run by someone else, are found to be filled with holes.  So, I've found it nothing but helpful to run ideas by people, as they've pointed out, or at least forced me to defend, the weak points.

[Dakota Hamill]

Sorry, one more.  And so the woman's husband is now a professor at a university, running with the idea he had all those years before.  I think he basically said he "got lucky" that no one else had pursued it in the time he was sitting on it, waiting to finish school and get a job.

[SC]

I would not sign an NDA, or anything else, handed to me by a person off the street that I didn't know that just wanted to run an idea past me.  Why on earth would I do that when it might open me up to some legal hassle and would have no benefit to me at all?

 

If you have faith in your idea you can file a patent.  There is time and expense involved with patents, so it depends on how confident you are with your idea and what you're willing to put up to get it done.

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

> I would not sign an NDA, or anything else, handed to me by a person off the street that I didn't know that just wanted to run an idea past me.  Why on earth would I do that when it might open me up to some legal hassle and would have no benefit to me at all?

I guess that's the reason why few diy projects make the leap to getting realized...

Is there a way to make it open source? And is it smart? Gene therapies should be tested I assume. Therefore you need traditional structures. With patents, FDA, millions of dollars and years of testing time?

[SC]

There's a very commonly used middle ground.  An independent researcher develops an idea up to a point, then sells the preliminary data to a larger company that handles the remaining testing, FDA approval, manufacturing, and marketing. If you have a chance, attend a pharma trade show some time.  There are a lot (a real lot) of small companies and individuals that sell ideas, data, and systems. Data is diaplayed in poster form on big display boards, along with booklets with more details. The pharma folks bring lawyers that sit at the back in little cubicles and make contracts and write checks.  

 

Of course, they want to see some data, not just "here's something I think should work."  One of my students did this *once* and really struck gold.

[Dakota Hamill]

One of my students did this *once* and really struck gold.

There are people from firms that really seek out and buy...pamphlets filled with data?  Could you elaborate a bit more on that particular story please if you know anything else about it.

[SC]

They're not buying the pamphlet, they're buying the system and the rights to it.  If a small company (or individual), designs and isolates a protein that might have commercial value, they can pitch it at one of these meetings.   For example, the company might want the rights to the design, all the data, the clones, and the purified protein, and protocols as to whatever was done.  Presumably the more you have the more valuable it will be.  It saves them a lot of time any money on "fishing expeditions" to test a zillion things, most of which will never pan out . If they can narrow it down to a smaller number of proteins or compounds that at least have been screened, they increase their odds of finding something. 

I've seen everything from computer models to knockout monkeys at these things.  It's quite an experience to see:  hundreds of people, projects listed in catalogs beforehand, all with posters up.  There are job recruiters as well. 

[Cathal Garvey]

Hey all,
Something changed recently in Google-Groups' treatment of some users.
I'm assuming it's people using the web interface. Whatever the case,
their sender email address becomes "diy...@googlegroups.com", and for
anyone who has that address in their address list already they'll only
see the bland generic name. So, I only see "DIYbio" for anyone in this
group.

The technical reason is that GGroups used to set the "From" header to
the sender's email address, and the "Reply-To" to the group; so the
sender's name and address would appear correctly in *all* cases. Now,
for some senders (Web interface?) it's setting the "From" to the group
address, as well, so the sender's name doesn't appear correctly if you
have the group email saved to address book.

They've added a new nonstandard header, "X-Original-Sender", but most
mail clients won't show this anywhere or make use of it for anything on
the UI side.

Given this unfortunate interface change, it'd be helpful if we all make
an effort to sign posts so the authorship is clear when GoogleGroups
doesn't make it explicit.

Alternatively, delete your address book entry for
diy...@googlegroups.com, so that the email that doesn't subsequently end
up in your spam folder is displayed with the correct sender. But that
way, you'll lose a lot of group mail to spam filters.

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[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

The tatoo delivery method is a very nice low tech idea.
Maybe add PEG or lipofusamin and there you go.

But once you delivered the DNA, does that really means it stays? You stably transformed the skin cells, but they die off and get replaced by stem cells (which may not carry the DNA).

Where do this stem cells "rest" while not needed? Are they between the cells? Can you reach them with tatoo delivery method?

[qetzal]

The cells in the dermal layer don't get continuously replaced, IIRC. You can probably find the relevant details with a little googling.

The bigger question is: what do you want to achieve? Even if you stably introduce an expression construct into some dermal cells, it's going to be hard to have an impact on anything other than the immediate area. Such a few cells will not express enough protein to have a systemic effect.

At least, not for most proteins. One exception is expressing vaccine antigens to try to generate an immune response. That doesn't need much expression. But a LOT of professional effort has gone into intadermal DNA vaccines, with essentially no significant success.

Which isn't to say that your idea can't do better. Just to warn you that there will be hurdles.

Good luck!

[Andreas Stuermer]

No proteins produced as they may trigger immune response... Interferinng RNAs.

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[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Ah yes, it would be only a local effect.

But AFAIK the outbreaks occur around the area of first infection.

Maybe it'd be even possible to release interfering RNA into the bloodstream (from liver etc) and distribute them within the body?

On Monday, June 16, 2014 5:38:28 PM UTC+2, Mega [Andreas Stuermer] wrote: