WHO statement on roundup

[Heather Dewey-Hagborg]

What do you think about this? Big news today. Curious about impressions from the community.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/21/roundup-cancer-who-glyphosate-

[Xabier Vázquez Campos]

Nothing to be afraid, that's the same classification that the IARC gives to radiofrequency including WiFi.

The "limited evidence" statement as the IARC indicates:

Limited evidence of carcinogenicity: A positive association has been observed between exposure to the agent and cancer for which a causal interpretation is considered by the Working Group to be credible, but chance, bias or confounding could not be ruled out with reasonable confidence.

Basically, there is some evidence but it could be a problem of study bias, bad experimental analysis etc but they cannot distinguish if the effect is because of that or due to the chemical itself

[Nathan McCorkle]

First thought was "oh that's cool"... second thought was "why doesn't
this news article link to some original sources", third thought was
"wait, in science 'probably' usually needs to have a number attached
to it".

It really just makes me sad about the way society thinks at-large...
they're still going back to concerns of GM foods and threw in a
comment about Vermont and labelling GM stuff... when the real
interesting label would be what pesticides the product was sprayed
with.

[Jonathan Cline]

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 4:56:42 PM UTC-7, Heather wrote:

What do you think about this? Big news today. Curious about impressions from the community.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/21/roundup-cancer-who-glyphosate-

Where do you work:  for Monsanto, or for a news agency?

 
## Jonathan Cline
## jcl...@ieee.org
## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223
########################

[Heather Dewey-Hagborg]

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Jonathan Cline <jnc...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 4:56:42 PM UTC-7, Heather wrote:

What do you think about this? Big news today. Curious about impressions from the community.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/21/roundup-cancer-who-glyphosate-

Where do you work:  for Monsanto, or for a news agency?

wow. because I'm interested in what the reaction is from a community I respect? because I want to hear opinions outside the mainstream media? seems like an unnecessarily nasty and dismissive response. I'm definitely neither of those things.

 

 
## Jonathan Cline
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[Jonathan Cline]

"nasty and dismissive" is your interpretation of my simple question though your "definitely neither" suggests you are happy not to have either of those employers.  Do you have a personal bias regarding this news or regarding Monsanto?  If so, opinions from the community would also become biased by the same.  For example, as my reply has already run through bias, via your eyes.

"a community I respect" - well, there's a problem worth talking about too. 

Now I'm gonna venture guesses that you're an artist, have a social science degree (at best), and vote Democrat.  Which is topical since anyone's opinion is best given depth by the origins of their personal background.  I guessed artist because of a projected distaste for "mainstream media" and Democrat because of the implication of a source of antagonism after a simple & logical question, and social science because both of these also imply lack of training in critical thinking skills.  'k, cool.  At least the Turing test passes.


My immediate thoughts after reading the news report (first saw it in bbc online), was:
 - geez why'd this take so long...  oh.  biologists.   well, and human time lines, but.. mostly, biologists.
 - where's the reference, how come the journalist didn't link the reference?!
 - oh, probably because the study is statistics bunk anyway
 - especially compared to the arsenic overdose I'm getting from my U.S. grown rice
 - which doesn't matter because Monsanto will continue doing what they're doing (until public opinion causes a change)
 - and no one REALLY cares about human longevity anyway
 - especially because veganism is the only current antidote to cancer and look how the article didn't mention that

## Jonathan Cline
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On 3/23/15 7:50 PM, Heather Dewey-Hagborg wrote:

[Brian Degger]

Seems it was based on studies..."based on agricultural exposure."

Things to note:

  1) correlation is not the same as causation.   

  2) there are no numbers and no link to the science papers. 

  3) because of that we can't say anything about the doses that people were being exposed to. 

  4) does that mean that this food will give you cancer? seems not so highly likely. 

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[Cathal Garvey]

Not to mention that agricultural exposure is already well studied and
known to have a nonzero risk of harm, that's why agri workers are
supposed to wear protective gear. Even then, the risks are quite low
compared to other reasonably-comparable herbicides.

The risks for actual consumers of agriproduce aren't seriously
considered here, and are already well established as "next to negligible".

No fan of big agrichem here, but after looking over Glyphosate's safety
record and reaching my own conclusion in line with the consensus, I
started using it judiciously in my own permaculture plots, in
directly-applied gel form.

Given that it's literally just Glycine with a phosphate group, I'm
disappointed that nobody's explored ways of cooking it up with some
backyard chemistry and food-grade ingredients; I think it'd be *great
fun* to distribute a "organic recipe for all natural herbicide" to
hippies which is secretly just a way to make the Glyphosate they fart on
about so much.

> ##jcl...@ieee.org <mailto:jcl...@ieee.org>
> ## Mobile:+1-805-617-0223 <tel:%2B1-805-617-0223>

> ########################
>
> On 3/23/15 7:50 PM, Heather Dewey-Hagborg wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Jonathan Cline <jnc...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:jnc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 4:56:42 PM UTC-7, Heather wrote:
>>
>> What do you think about this? Big news today. Curious
>> about impressions from the community.
>>
>> http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/21/roundup-cancer-who-glyphosate-
>>
>>
>> Where do you work: for Monsanto, or for a news agency?
>>
>>
>> wow. because I'm interested in what the reaction is from a
>> community I respect? because I want to hear opinions outside the
>> mainstream media? seems like an unnecessarily nasty and dismissive
>> response. I'm definitely neither of those things.
>>
>>
>>
>> ## Jonathan Cline

>> ## jcl...@ieee.org <mailto:jcl...@ieee.org>
>> ## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223 <tel:%2B1-805-617-0223>

>> ########################
>>
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[Will Canine]

Yo John, you're being a huge jerk. Get off the listserv if you can't be polite. You are certainly not a part of the community that I respect.

Also, you should Google Heathers work and realize she has already had more of an effect on how people perceive biotech than you ever will.

Your nasty purile attitude has absolutely no excuse. Be nice or GTFO.

Sincerely,

Will Canine

[Heather Dewey-Hagborg]

After digging a bit I think this is the document all the news reports are stemming from:

http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/iarcnews/pdf/MonographVolume112.pdf

And this seems to be the key statement:

"For the herbicide glyphosate, there was limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans for non-Hodgkin lymphoma. The evidence in humans is from studies of exposures, mostly agricultural, in the USA, Canada, and Sweden published since 2001. In addition, there is convincing evidence that glyphosate also can cause cancer in laboratory animals. On the basis of tumours in mice, the United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) originally classified glyphosate as possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group C) in 1985. After a re-evaluation of that mouse study, the US EPA changed its classification to evidence of non-carcinogenicity in humans (Group E) in 1991. The US EPA Scientific Advisory Panel noted that the re-evaluated glyphosate results were still significant using two statistical tests recommended in the IARC Preamble. The IARC Working Group that conducted the evaluation considered the significant findings from the US EPA report and several more recent positive results in concluding that there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals. Glyphosate also caused DNA and chromosomal damage in human cells, although it gave negative results in tests using bacteria. One study in community residents reported increases in blood markers of chromosomal damage (micronuclei) after glyphosate formulations were sprayed nearby."

and then later:

"Glyphosate currently has the highest global production volume of all herbicides. The largest use worldwide is in agriculture. The agricultural use of glyphosate has increased sharply since the development of crops that have been genetically modified to make them resistant to glyphosate. Glyphosate is also used in forestry, urban, and home applications. Glyphosate has been detected in the air during spraying, in water, and in food. The general population is exposed primarily through residence near sprayed areas, home use, and diet, and the level that has been observed is generally low."

It sounds to me like the problem is over-use and misuse and the main groups affected are those working or living in or nearby massive agricultural zones. 

I believe the details will be available in the forthcoming monograph volume 112 which will be posted here when its available:

http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/PDFs/index.php

I'll keep an eye out...

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[Brian Degger]

Thanks for the digging. 

I do wish it wasn't necessary and that the media would link to the literature.

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[Jonathan Cline]

This is Monsanto's statement :

Monsanto Disagrees with IARC Classification for Glyphosate
Statement from Dr. Philip Miller, Vice President Global Regulatory Affairs, Monsanto
http://news.monsanto.com/news/monsanto-disagrees-iarc-classification-glyphosate

This is the EPA fact sheet (undated):

http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/pdfs/factsheets/soc/tech/glyphosa.pdf
Drinking Water Standards
MCLG: 0.7 mg/L
MCL: 0.7 mg/L
HAL(child): 1- to 10- day: 20 mg/L; Longer-term: 1 mg/L

Compare to the standard for fluoride in drinking water, just for number's sake: 4.0 mg/L or 4.0 ppm;
" Exposure to excessive consumption of fluoride over a lifetime may lead to increased likelihood of bone fractures in adults, and may result in effects on bone leading to pain and tenderness. Children aged 8 years and younger exposed to excessive amounts of fluoride have an increased chance of developing pits in the tooth enamel, along with a range of cosmetic effects to teeth."  -- EPA.gov web site


Re: Will Canine  - I request an apology from you regarding your recent personal attack.  Perhaps you're suffering from white knight syndrome though that's no excuse for your recent statements.

## Jonathan Cline
## jcl...@ieee.org

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########################

On 3/24/15 5:58 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:

[David Murphy]

Jonathan you're being a dick, go back and re-read your posts.

In your head

"Where do you work:  for Monsanto, or for a news agency?"

may have been narrated in a friendly and non-confrontational voice but unfortunately text doesn't convey that and to everyone else it reads as an extremely aggressive attack.

Your second post and it's pseudo-psychological "analysis" and insults moves out of the realm of possibly misinterpreted and into the realm of "you make this community worse by your presence.". 
Piss off.

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[leaking pen]

Nope, he's completely in his rights to ask you to behave like a human being.  a person posts an article about something of interest to us all, asks for opinions, and you personally attack them?  And then to go throwing out "white knight", dude...  it was a jerk move on your part no matter the gender of the person you aimed it at. YOU began with personal attacks. YOU need to apologize to everyone on the list for acting that way, or stop posting. 

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