Is synbio vanillin really more sustainable than pure-syn sources?

[Nathan McCorkle]

"Evolva say its synbio vanillin is a sustainable alternative to the
synthetic variety, but critics say the technology isn’t palatable for
the environment"

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/may/28/creators-defend-vanilla-flavour-made-using-synthetic-biology

As I know it, we get synthetic vanilla from lignin waste... the
knowledge of which makes all woody plants much more delicious-feeling
to me. If there is a lot of pre/post processing involved that the
synbio route would eliminate... what will this lignin waste stream
revert to? Simply being burned?

Maybe the synbio stuff /is/ using lignin waste as it's input, in which
case I hope they're collaborating with biomass-biofuel folks (JBEI for
example) who were working on lignocellulosic degradation.

Also, can my Diesel VW Jetta run on vanillin, that is slightly more
interesting than eating tasty things (at least it would seem to be
more interesting from a business perspective).

--
-Nathan

[Patrik D'haeseleer]

Objectively, I don't think the arguments hold much water either way.

They're just making a flavoring. So however much vanillin they produce, it will always use only a tiny fraction of all the waste lignin produced by the pulp industry. Or if made from sugar, the amount of sugar needed to make the vanilla will likely be minimal compared to all the sugar used in the deserts it's being incorporated into.

I think these arguments have far more to do with marketing than anything else: Evolva clearly has a financial incentive in claiming their technology is better than what's currently on the market. And FOE clearly has an incentive in claiming that the synbio approach is somehow worse than turning black industrial sludge into yummy vanilla using chemicals. Meh.

Patrik

[Cathal (Phone)]

Indeed, although at least one of those parties has a history of falsehoods and hystrionics, so I don't buy the equivalence.

My *opinion*, not backed up by any digging yet, is that synbio vanillin will be like many synbio flavour/fragrances: more sustainable than the natural version, with a more authentic flavour than the synchem alternatives because of chiral and quantitative purity.

So I think they're onto something. :)

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[BraveScience]

Apparently lignin isn't use anymore for vanilline synthesis but it's derived from petrol (as all the good stuff is, apparently).

Wikipedia reports how guacol is the chemical compound used as reagent, interestingly is perceived by locusts as a swarm pheromone.

Vanilline is easy to produce, probably derived from aminoacid metabolism.

Regarding the "real vanilline" that's an elite product, it is sold mainly to restaurants and for end consumers that want to use the real vanille pod.
Expecting synbio vanilline to put at risk farmers is quite a hasty assumption, did petrochemical synthesis of vanilline do the same to farmers? they're still there.

Cool thing about vanille plant: it's an orchid, and it grows as a vine.
It spread much farther that it's geographical origin and because butterflies are inefficient or not present in alien environments it has to be hand pollinated. Plus not all flowers will produce pods.

Taking into consideration space needed (in subtropical areas: bye bye forest) and the agricultural practices in use, like fertilization, pest control and soil "improvement" that's quite a footprint for the vanille pod industry.

Best,
Fede

[John Griessen]

On 11/20/2015 01:57 PM, Nathan McCorkle wrote:
> what will this lignin waste stream
> revert to? Simply being burned?

I'm betting those kinds of paper-mill like waste streams will become available
to bio-enzyme and live vat process into a cellulose building material that is 3D printable, then
a little extra binding ingredient is added as you air foam and print and it sets up to be like
a crude version of aerogel materials.

What is pure anyway? R.B.F. said, "There's no pollution, just unfinished processes". (paraphrased)...

Pure is just a concept we lose more and more of as we age. Everything is mixed is the wiser viewpoint.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:18 AM, John Griessen <jo...@industromatic.com> wrote:
>
> What is pure anyway? R.B.F. said, "There's no pollution, just unfinished
> processes". (paraphrased)...
>
> Pure is just a concept we lose more and more of as we age. Everything is
> mixed is the wiser viewpoint.

By 'pure-syn' I actually meant vanillin created completely or mostly
using synthetic chemistry, as opposed to enzymes. Re-reading it now,
and to touch on your comments... the 'purely synthetic chemistry
route' is also not really 'purely synthetic chemisty' since the lignin
was not produced that way (it was biomass). Good point.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 5:17 AM, BraveScience <braves...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently lignin isn't use anymore for vanilline synthesis but it's derived from petrol (as all the good stuff is, apparently).
>
> Wikipedia reports how guacol is the chemical compound used as reagent, interestingly is perceived by locusts as a swarm pheromone.

From reading that wiki article and clicking the guaiacol link too, it
seems that is also derived from biologics, not just petroleum
(creosote and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaiacum).

The guaiacol article mentioned catechol as a starting point for its
synthesis, which gets methylated.


I guess woody plants go back to looking less tasty and tempting.
*sigh*