Electronics Help - voltage and current from a single shot exploder

[Steve Martin]

This Thursday I was at the Silk Mill.  Steve from the workshop had the 'Little Demon' Shot Exploder, I found the Silk Mill have done a 3D scanning of it which is online on this page.  

He was looking to see what we could do with it and came in to ask who knew about electronics.  I know bits but Al was there who knows a whole lot more about electronics.  We had a look at connecting it with a multi-meter and saw between 3 and maybe 9 volts, it varied depending on how fast you turned the handle.  We measured hardly any current, I can't remember how much.  I think Al looked at the resistance and found it was quite high.  We found it outputs an AC voltage.

It wasn't able to light a 6V bulb (from one of those kids electronics kits - Hot Wires) but it was able to light an LED for a moment.  That's something but only for a moment.  I didn't see if they tried holding wires close to see if it can generate a spark.

I wondered what it would take to attach wires from it to a small circuit to do something else.  Maybe just a few LEDs or even a micro controller like an Arduino or a BBC micro:bit. 

I've just had a look look online and found a page that describes AC to DC conversion, it's talking about rectifier circuits and diodes.  It looks fairly straightforward.

Al, you mentioned a part number, I think it was for a diode.  Can you explain that please?

Would that sort of conversion of the voltage be affected by current on a circuit?

While searching for info about this I found a website for the Institute of Explosives Engineers which has a few PDFs of their journal on this page.  It happens to have an article (page 34) about Exploders.  It does refer to their journal from 2012 but that's not online.  This part might explain the low current:

.

"The output of a machine depends on its condition, which deteriorates over time, and the effort expended by the firer."

Steve though it would be interesting to get this hooked up to something to display it, I thought so too that's why I decided to look into it.

Thanks,

Steve

[Paul Stevens]

Thi Institute of Explosive Engineers looks a right hoot.  How do you join ;-}}

Should be possible to light an LED but if its an AC output then it will need to be rectified into DC to get the most out of it.  Full wave rectifier will be best.  If you are about on wednesday then we can have a chat.  Its probably a bit much to cover in an email.

In the meantime I’ll find out what I can

Cheers

Paul

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[Steve Martin]

Hi Paul, I should be there on Wednesday, I'll try to have a bit of a read about it before then.

I wonder what sort of projects a group of explosives engineers might get up to ;-)

Thanks,

Steve

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[Tony Brookes]

One that you should be at least 100m away from :-))

Tony

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[grant gibson]

If you want to try and use it to set off explosives or a controlled mini fire then you might be able to use the low current rocket igniters called e matches there was some talk of using it to set off the what if machine next weekend... I can probably get hold of a few from Phil worsley if people think they might want to have a play... You could rig it to some string and use the match to burn through setting off the chain reaction

Regards

Grant

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[Steve Martin]

Grant, assuming the Silk Milk have no issues with it I think the e matches idea sounds good.  Though finding out that the devices do deteriorate over time makes me wonder if there's any chance that even that might not work.  It's worth a shot if you can easily get some though. 

Thanks,

Steve

[Al Johnson]

For those wanting to have a look at the journal mentioned, it's this one:
http://iexpe.org/journal/5March2014joural.pdf
Along with deterioration it also mentions having brushes, and possibly a
switching mechanism, either of which could have affected the resistance
measurement. I'd really like to see the output on an oscilloscope too, or hear
from someone who knows what the output characteristics are (or are meant to
be).

The part number I mentioned was the 4049, a hex inverting buffer that can take
up to around 15V on the input, but limits the output to the supply voltage.
This makes it handy for interfacing to the inputs of a Pi, or an arduino -
just power it from the same voltage as the inputs (3.3V for the Pi, usually 5V
for the arduino) and you have a much more robust and versatile input.

On Saturday, 4 February 2017 05:48:26 GMT Steve Martin wrote:
> This Thursday I was at the Silk Mill. Steve from the workshop had
> the 'Little Demon' Shot Exploder, I found the Silk Mill have done a 3D
> scanning of it which is online on this page

> <https://sketchfab.com/models/7970ea2bf80045a4951fc0826705afc2#>.

>
> He was looking to see what we could do with it and came in to ask who knew
> about electronics. I know bits but Al was there who knows a whole lot more
> about electronics. We had a look at connecting it with a multi-meter and
> saw between 3 and maybe 9 volts, it varied depending on how fast you turned
> the handle. We measured hardly any current, I can't remember how much. I
> think Al looked at the resistance and found it was quite high. We found it
> outputs an AC voltage.
>
> It wasn't able to light a 6V bulb (from one of those kids electronics kits
> - Hot Wires) but it was able to light an LED for a moment. That's
> something but only for a moment. I didn't see if they tried holding wires
> close to see if it can generate a spark.
>
> I wondered what it would take to attach wires from it to a small circuit to
> do something else. Maybe just a few LEDs or even a micro controller like
> an Arduino or a BBC micro:bit.
>
> I've just had a look look online and found a page

> <https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-convert-A-C-supply-into-D-C-supply> that

> describes AC to DC conversion, it's talking about rectifier circuits and
> diodes. It looks fairly straightforward.
>
> Al, you mentioned a part number, I think it was for a diode. Can you
> explain that please?
>
> Would that sort of conversion of the voltage be affected by current on a
> circuit?
>
> While searching for info about this I found a website for the Institute of
> Explosives Engineers which has a few PDFs of their journal on this page

> <http://iexpe.org/Journal>. It happens to have an article (page 34) about

[Steve Martin]

Thanks.  I've just had a quick look online for a hex inverting buffer and found these two pages:

http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/cd4049ube/inverting-buffer-hex-4000-cmos/dp/1106106

http://www.ti.com/product/CD4049UB/description 

I'm guessing that's right.  It it a bit more complicated than I've dealt with while learning electronics so far.  

I might try and play around with the handheld oscilloscope (Velleman HPS140i) that's in the workshop tonight.  I looked online at the one you mentioned (http://www.bitscope.com/product/BS05/) which looks interesting and can connect to a Raspberry Pi (and Windows, Linux or Mac) rather than having it's own display.  Though I think I should learn a bit more about electronics before I buy something like that even if it's only around £100 with the probe adapter cable.

Steve