need some legal advice!

[sue.g.mc]

OK, I am just a rebel.
Now I am in trouble first by my Chair (the same one that cancelled all Hybrids), and now he brought legal into it, for my college website. http://tech4mathed.com/Collegeindex.html  I moved it at the end of last semester because the first day of classes Fall 2010 the college website was down and I could not show my students my syllabus!  It happened again Spring 2011 on the first day of classes- no MCC websites!  However, I had already moved my college site off to my blog domain, so I didn't have any problems on the first day :)

The first issue they have is that  I post a link to MY resources for Livescribe on it, which I originally created because the President's office at MCC had me come in and teach all the admin staff how to use the smartpens so the administrators could take notes with them and their assistants could use the transcription software to transfer the notes to typed written notes easily in Word.  So, I set up a resource page and placed it on my website for the college so the admin. assistants could find it.  I make no money from Livescribe, I just really like their smartpens.  I do write education articles for their blog, but they do not pay me.

The other link they don't like is the link to my non-profit. NorthStarBridge.org  My husband and I make NO money off the non-profit, 100% of any donations go directly to helping students.  We do not pay ourselves a salary at all.

They are calling these links a "conflict of interest" and making me take them down. 
I have 2 questions
1) how can it be a conflict of interest if I make NO money or gain anything by posting these links?
2)  does the district have any say over websites that we create OFF  of district/campus servers?

I will pull the links down because I am tired of being in the crosshairs, but I also want to fight for faculty rights!  Do any of you post links on your website to resources you want your students to use?   I do not make them purchase a Livescribe pen, I just use it to answer their questions.
Anyone else go through scrutiny over their website or online materials they point their students towards?

Sue



--
~following my North Star!

[Linda Herdan]

Hi Sue,

This is very interesting situation (although certainly not fun for you).  A question I have is how does your division chair know about your website.  Also how do your students students link to the website: Blackboard, MCC website, etc.?  A lot of other Maricopa instructors use their own web sites and I have always wondered what legal issues this creates.  For instance can district resourses (Livescribe) be used to create content for private sites?

Linda

[Dustin Fennell]

First - I am not an attorney and this is just my opinion....  I would think that Maricopa has no jurisdiction over your personal website that is not hosted on Maricopa equipment/resources.  There are hundreds of faculty who use personal websites to post classroom material.  Many of these sites have links to other industries, technologies, information, etc.  I would definitely contact Faculty Senate and report this.  This sounds more like a personal vendetta then a complaint that has actual merit. 

Dustin

                  

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cyber Salon" group.
To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.

[Cate McNamara]

Sue,

I am not an attorney either... my best guest is that this could be related to the lawsuit that took place several years ago with respect to the math faculty at GCC who had links to some sort of Columbus Day thing that represented his political views.... that content was within his math classes.... I don't remember what the outcome was, but if memory serves, I do know that the FOIA requests for the math instructors emails also generated some crossover to his personal cox.net account. 

 

I think regardless of whether or not your link to your non-profit generates money for you, it's viewed perhaps as a conflict of interest because of whether or not it relates to the content of your class (I don't know a whole lot about your non-profit)  At the end, even without any money exchanges, you are generating exposure for your cause/interest "at the cost of Maricopa"... you're students are paying for the math class and not exposure to your specific views or causes that have no affiliation with the course objectives. 

 

Please do not misinterpret what I'm saying here... I'm just remembering parts of that GCC related lawsuit against the district -- I know that tenents of academic freedom were involved, etc... I have no opinion in the matter... just bringing to your attention a possible reason why you may be experiencing what you are experiencing with your College Admin....

 

Cate.

[sue.g.mc]

The last email I got from legal moved the issue from the links I have on my website to the fact that my website is OFF of the MCC server (not an .edu website)

My students link to my website and calendar through MyMathLab.  MyMathLab is offsite from the MCC server as well.  Should that create issues?    

Even if faculty use Blackboard or WebCT (at Mesa), can the district see what you house INSIDE of your portal?

My department chair "came across my website", is what he said and was concerned, so he went to legal with it.

Sue 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cyber Salon" group.
To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.

[sue.g.mc]

It is ironic, though,Cate, because the non-profit only helps students at MCC or other close by colleges!  Therefore, it IS in the best interest of the district and my students!!  But I can understand and take that one down, but to have the chair "looking over my shoulder" at this seems a bit intrusive.

Sue

~following my North Star!

[Linda Herdan]

One way to approach these questions is who is paying for what.  The colleges pay for Blackboard/WebCT so yes they can access anything on these sites.  With MyMathLab the issue may be that the college or the student is paying to access it.  IT is not a free site or one that you have personally paid for.

Linda Herdan
Supervisor Network Services
Information Technology Services
-----------------------------------------------------
Scottsdale Community College
9000 East Chaparral Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85256-2626
Phone (480) 423-6299
linda....@sccmail.maricopa.edu

[Paul Valach]

Not an attorney, but no stranger to trouble making.. I was told a few times that if I wanted to keep my links current updated from semester to semester to create a page on my website..personal website..or even one I created for a class. Someone even said get a domain, that way you can keep it separate from your other interests. Sounds like this is your case. As far as exposure to "outside" sources, things, etc.. there will be a time when we will have the ability to teach curtailed. If you wear something with a logo you are promoting, if you mention you had a burger at restaurant you are promoting, if you mention back in the day when you were in college at.... you are promoting. This may be an exaggeration, but it usually ONE person that is the complaint, somehow wanting equal time .etc...its bad enough we have to use school email acts that often go down.. when they are forwarded so as not to be missed or not have to be logged into.. meh....too much paranoi seems to be around..and the ability to get information and materials to our kids impeded as oppose to be made easier in the "new technology  world". Isn't this what now GONE , VOTED OUT, Jerry Walker was all about?
Paul

Best regards,
Paul Valach, MBA

This Week's Thought:
"The entrepreneur always searches for change, responds to it, and exploits it as an opportunity." - Peter Drucker

[Cate McNamara]

Sue,

If your college has access to Lexis-Nexis you can pull this information up pretty quickly....

its the citation to the court case I was referring to...it looks like its still working its way through the court system. 

  DAVID M. RODRIGUEZ; JUDY GONZALES POGGI; JOSE MENDOZA; FRANK RIVERA; MARIO QUEZADA; ESTHER ANAYA-GARCIA, on behalf of themselves and all others similarly situated, Plaintiffs-Appellees, v. MARICOPA COUNTY COMMUNITY COLLEGE DISTRICT; THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE MARICOPA COUNTY COMMUNITY COLLEGE DISTRICT, Defendants, and RUFUS GLASPER; PHILLIP RANDOLPH, in their official and individual capacities, Defendants-Appellants.
No. 08-16073
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
605 F.3d 703; 2009 U.S. App. LEXIS 29101; 109 Fair Empl. Prac. Cas. (BNA) 485; 93 Empl. Prac. Dec. (CCH) P43,884

October 19, 2009, Argued and Submitted, Tempe, Arizona
May 20, 2010, Filed
SUBSEQUENT HISTORY: As Amended July 15, 2010.

[Laura Ballard]

This is ludicrous….  I am so sorry that you’re having to deal with this Sue.  I have no advice, but you do have my sympathy.

 

-lb-

[Alisa Cooper]

Well, I have all my stuff (the whole class) hosted on my own paid for domains. I've been doing it for years and have never had a problem.

I do see how the link to your non-profit is a conflict of interest. It doesn't have anything to do with teaching math and is sort of a solicitation to donate to your non-profit. You don't benefit financially, but you do benefit from the donation in that it helps further your non-profit.

I think if the links to Livescribe are to your lessons that would be fine, but just a link to their website again does benefit the company. It's advertising for them.

As for having your own website to support your courses, that's all crap. You should be permitted to do that. I just think they're out to get you Sue, and they will scrutinize everything you do from here on out. You need to get out of there before your name is mud. Fight for the site, but I'd lose the links.

[Linda Herdan]

Does anyone know if this has been an issue at other institutions?  The main issue I see is that students have paid to take a course from college X but use the personal website of the instructor.  I know a lot of people do not like BB (or other official CMS) but what have the courts (not lawyers) said about these questions?

[Shelley Rodrigo]

Linda,

Aren't your questions infringing on academic freedom of instructors? 

Shelley

Shelley Rodrigo, Ph.D.
Blog: http://committedtechnofile.com/
Twitter: rrodrigo

"That is how innovation happens; chance favors the connected mind"
--Steven Johnson

[Devon C Adams]

I am with Coop on this one. how'd you get on their bad side?

On Feb 1, 2011 3:18 PM, "Alisa Cooper" <dr.coop@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I have all my stuff (the whole class) hosted on my own paid for
> domains. I've been doing it for years and have never had a problem.
>
> I do see how the link to your non-profit is a conflict of interest. It
> doesn't have anything to do with teaching math and is sort of a solicitation
> to donate to your non-profit. You don't benefit financially, but you do
> benefit from the donation in that it helps further your non-profit.
>
> I think if the links to Livescribe are to your lessons that would be fine,
> but just a link to their website again does benefit the company. It's
> advertising for them.
>
> As for having your own website to support your courses, that's all crap. You
> should be permitted to do that. I just think they're out to get you Sue, and
> they will scrutinize everything you do from here on out. You need to get out
> of there before your name is mud. Fight for the site, but I'd lose the
> links.
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Laura Ballard <bal...@gatewaycc.edu> wrote:
>
>> This is ludicrous…. I am so sorry that you’re having to deal with this
>> Sue. I have no advice, but you do have my sympathy.
>>
>>
>>
>> -lb-
>>
>>
>>

>> *From:* cyber...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cyber...@googlegroups.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *sue.g.mc
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 12:40 PM
>> *To:* cyber...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: {Cyber Salon} Re: need some legal advice!

>> cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --

>> ~following my North Star <http://www.northstarbridge.org>!

>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Cyber Salon" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>> cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Cyber Salon" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>> cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[sue.g.mc]

(I hope) I am only on my dept Chair's bad side....he is the one that has involved legal.

I have several stories I probably should not share about being in his radar the last 3 weeks.  Let's leave it at "I cringe every time I see I have another email from him".

Sue

[Devon C Adams]

If the LMS works well and is easier for students, then why not be consistent but it hasn't always work. Colleges don't always communicate about this to each other, and we online instructors still lose students because they can't find the class. But everything isn't working necessarily; not to mention BB v. WebCT v. Rio and add in the publisher portals, too.

>> <cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>> >
>>
>> >> .
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ~following my North Star <http://www.northstarbridge.org>!
>> >>
>> >> --
>>
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >> "Cyber Salon" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>> <cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>> >
>>
>> >> .
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >> "Cyber Salon" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>> <cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>> >
>>
>> >> .
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Cyber Salon" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> .
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Cyber Salon" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>> cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com<cybersalon%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ~following my North Star <http://www.northstarbridge.org>!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cyber Salon" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.

[Linda Herdan]

From my understanding academic freedom is related to content not how the class is delivered.  If an institution wants to mandate that all instructors use the official LMS I would think the courts would be on their side.  My main point is while someone may view this topic as academic freedom it doesn't really matter if the institution can fire you with cause for not following policies.

[Shelley Rodrigo]

As a rhetorician I would argue that form is not distinct from content...

[Linda Herdan]

I am not an instructor so I look at the issue from an outsider's viewpoint.  I am not saying how a class is delivered is not important but is it covered under academic freedom in the eyes of the courts?  For example, I don't believe that an instructor can insist that a course be delivered in-person rather than online and this definitely affects course delivery.  I guess a better way to phrase what I am considering is has the definition of academic freedom kept up with how technology has changed instruction?

[Alisa Cooper]

Let's all just hope the MCC Math dept chair just has a bug up his butt about Sue, and we really don't have to have this debate. That would not be good to have district start trying to "mandate" stuff. That would really piss a lot of people off. Sue I think you're safe with the email forwarding issue. I would be talking to my faculty senate president about all of this just to be safe. Be proactive. Don't wait until it's necessary.

[Devon C Adams]

I fear we may be inaccurate. We were asked to make a "shell" in WebCT with our outside link. Next up? Not sure but I can't see a single LMS being mandated but a small  # of options maybe. Not that I like it but we can't just assume this may not be coming.

At the high school I am forbidden from using Google Sites or a course blog. I warned they were going to mandate the use of their own website system & they have. It is called School Wires. I wonder how much money they waste on this.

On Feb 1, 2011 5:52 PM, "Alisa Cooper" <dr.coop@gmail.com> wrote:

[sue.g.mc]

Thanks Coop, the senate president has been aware of what has transpired since last semester, including today's fun emails from district legal. He has been included by me on EVERY email to my department chair and to district legal.   He is looking into the website issue right now and making sure our rights are not infringed upon!

Just wanted to see if any of you have come across the trouble I am having this semester!

Sue

[Shelley Rodrigo]

Devon,

The purpose of the shell is not for instruction, it's for getting students to the course. In other words, the college tells all online students "check WebCT"...therefore, you can build elsewhere but you need to get your students to your elsewhere. I still like how people referred to it as the "door" metaphor. Students know how to get to your classroom door (for f2f classes we give them room numbers)...what you do inside is academic freedom (I hope!).

Shelley

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cyber Salon" group.
To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.

[Devon C Adams]

Yep, the DOOR. I think that's a swell idea because they know where to begin. :) I too hope for academic freedom. Sue long ago commented that, for her, the LMS did not work when class began. If they cannot provide effective systems then why force standardization? Would you tell a student where the classroom door is but then lock it on them? :) 

DCA


***************************************
Devon Christopher Adams
Maricopa Community College District

Basha High School
English Department
devon...@gmail.com
http://www.dcamd.com
http://www.tinyurl.com/profadams

Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
-Albert Einstein

The holy grail is to spend less time making the picture than it takes people to look at it. -Banksy

For me the camera is a sketch book, an instrument of intuition and spontaneity, the master of the instant which, in visual terms, questions and decides simultaneously. In order to 'give a meaning”' to the world, one has to feel involved in what one frames through the viewfinder. This attitude requires concentration, discipline of mind, sensitivity, and a sense of geometry. It is by economy of means that one arrives at simplicity of expression.
- Bresson

[sue.g.mc]

The DOOR I use is Course Compass (MyMathLab).  It contains the links to my website that the students need.  My website just happens to be housed outside of the unstable MCC server.  They have to purchase an account to MyMathLab because the homework is housed there, along with most quizzes.   I also use MyMathLab as their online gradebook.   When I give tests on paper, I still upload their scores into MyMathLab, so their grade in that system always represents their current class grade. It has been great, and students don't get lost finding things.

Sue

~following my North Star!

[Shelley Rodrigo]

Sue,

What becomes the interesting conversation to me is...

1. so the school (district) purchases a license to an LMS

AND

2. potentially whole departments/programs are either purchasing (like Nutrition) and/or requiring their students to purchase (like Math, and possibly some English departments...we might go that way in the name of programmatic assessment)

That seems problematic on some level in asking students to pay for 2 systems; however, if the LMS isn't doing what needs to be done for math, or writing, or under-water basket weaving...??? But it's not fair to the students either. 

But, again, maybe it is also the equivalent of having instructor stations in rooms where the instructor never touches the technology. 

Shelley

[sue.g.mc]

I am in total agreement Shelley!  It is not fair for our students to pay for something that does not work!  As far as MyMathLab goes, they are purchasing it INSTEAD of a textbook because the ebook is inside the course.   So actually, instead of making my students pay $140 for the textbook, they only pay $70 for access to MyMathLab (which includes the textbook and tons of help)

I also cannot use the classroom instructor stations because they won't give us the ability to update programs that need updating immediately. I have lost too many days of class trying to teach from a computer that tells me Quicktime needs updating and I can't do it!

Sue

[Devon C Adams]

But isn't the LMS fees built into their tuition? (I.E. WHO pays for WebCT or BB?) --- I bet the students do. 

[Paul Valach]

Pearson's MyITLab has very similar problems, as well as otthers..MyITLab is driven by ASU whicj is a whole new can of worms which I won't go into at the moment..but this ______LAB from Pearson is a big problem in my mind.

[Kurt C]

Sue,

Couldn't you work with the FEC lawyer and get some feedback on your
legal rights in this situation? I had to work with them once before
on a legal issue. It took some time for them to respond, however, it
was helpful. Since you are planning on complying now but keeping up
the fight, is that something that could be considered?

Kurt

On Feb 1, 10:53 am, "sue.g.mc" <sue.g...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I am just a rebel.
> Now I am in trouble first by my Chair (the same one that cancelled all

> Hybrids), and now he brought legal into it, for my college website.http://tech4mathed.com/Collegeindex.html I moved it at the end of last

[sue.g.mc]

Yes, Kurt, that is my plan. 

sue

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cyber Salon" group.
To post to this group, send email to cyber...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cybersalon+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cybersalon?hl=en.