Hi Jean-Michel,
Apologies for taking so long to get back to this thread, been really
busy on some other, but related stuff - deriving UML Class Diagrams
from D-Bus introspection XML but that’s another story for another
group...
Now I can get back to Gherkin and UML Sequence Diagrams.
> we could use http://github.com/EmmanuelOga/websequencediagrams
> which generates sequence diagrams on http://www.websequencediagrams.com/
> using a super simple DSL: Alice->Bob: Authentication Request
I like the idea of targeting http://www.websequencediagrams.com/ but
it's missing some key things for me namely:
-No Lifeline Constraints
-No way of representing Asynchronous Stimuli – e.g. Send a Message
For the work I'm doing I kinda need both!
Also, I don't think the websequencediagrams.com is _that_ much simpler
than Mykhaylo Sorochan's DSL for UMLGraph.
Finally I don't like the fact that websequencediagrams.com is not Open
Source.
Putting all that to one side I wouldn't rule it out as a target along
side Mykhaylo Sorochan's DSL for UMLGraph but I think the priority
should be working out the mapping between Gherkin steps and the
elements of a UML Sequence Diagram - i.e. Object, Stimulus, Frame,
Lifeline Constraint etc.
I intend to do this 'Test First' by producing a set of example pairs
of Scenarios and Sequence Diagrams to show the input and expected
output of the process.
What do you think of this approach? Would you be interested in
collaborating on producing these 'Tests'?
Cheers
Chris
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cheers,
Matt
You'd be onto a winner here.
Even though we more a less have all BA's writing GWT, they' d still
spend days on 'process flow' diagrams. Use-Cases are static models,
sequence-diagrams are not.
This could really push Cucumber more into the business community.
Thanks
Aidy
> Can you show us an example of how a Cucumber scenario would translate
> into a sequence diagram?
Sure - I included one in my original post to the, now dead, thread
this one superceeded:
More to follow...
Here is the original post:
Gherkin is working a treat for us on a project at the BBC. Previously
we had produced a lot of UML Sequence Diagrams which whilst they have
their merits have been
overtaken by Gherkin Scenarios which are a lot quicker to write,
refactor and parametrize with example data.
One thing we've lost in moving from the UML Sequence Diagrams to the
Gherkin Scenarios is the visual and spatial qualities of the diagrams.
To regain this I'm looking at how we could generate UML Sequence
Diagrams from our Gherkin Scenarios, the figure below shows the sort
of mapping between the two that I'm thinking of:
Hi All!What is the reason and the purpose of the generator? UML is not exactly an agile design and documentation standard.I've started implementing this generator.
The sample of output is here:�http://kalapun.com/portfolio/tmp/gherkin/and the source is�https://github.com/xslim/gherkify
feel free to post issues and improvements on github.
On Monday, February 15, 2010 11:37:08 AM UTC+1, worldofchris wrote:
Starting this in a new thread as the old one appears to be broken...Hi Jean-Michel,
Apologies for taking so long to get back to this thread, been really
busy on some other, but related stuff - deriving UML Class Diagrams
from D-Bus introspection XML but that�s another story for another
group...
Now I can get back to Gherkin and UML Sequence Diagrams.
> we could use http://github.com/EmmanuelOga/websequencediagrams
> which generates sequence diagrams on http://www.websequencediagrams.com/
> using a super simple DSL: Alice->Bob: Authentication RequestI like the idea of targeting http://www.websequencediagrams.com/ but
it's missing some key things for me namely:
-No Lifeline Constraints
-No way of representing Asynchronous Stimuli � e.g. Send a Message
For the work I'm doing I kinda need both!
Also, I don't think the websequencediagrams.com is _that_ much simpler
than Mykhaylo Sorochan's DSL for UMLGraph.Finally I don't like the fact that websequencediagrams.com is not Open
Source.
Putting all that to one side I wouldn't rule it out as a target along
side Mykhaylo Sorochan's DSL for UMLGraph but I think the priority
should be working out the mapping between Gherkin steps and the
elements of a UML Sequence Diagram - i.e. �Object, Stimulus, Frame,
Lifeline Constraint etc.
I intend to do this 'Test First' by producing a set of example pairs
of Scenarios and Sequence Diagrams to show the input and expected
output of the process.
What do you think of this approach? �Would you be interested in
collaborating on producing these 'Tests'?
--Cheers
Chris
-- Rules --
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2) Please use interleaved answers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
3) If you have a question, don't reply to an existing message. Start a new topic instead.
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BTW, I updated the page with more examples of generation
I might later generate state or sequence diagrams from scenarios, we'll see that.
I just started the work on this.
And about thousands of Gherkin features... In my case, they are quite high level, and they are around 10-15 for SRS
It's good that there are many tools, frameworks and processes like UML, BDD, Agile, Gherkin, etcIt's up to us and our needs what to use and how to combine.
For something like SRS for not complex applications, where you plan to use Cucumber, one can use Gherkin to describe what customer needsAnd then use same Gherkin for some testing.
And if some diagrams can help gain understanding between customer needs and a developer (who will need to do some pre-estimation for these needs), why not use them?
On Monday, February 15, 2010 11:37:08 AM UTC+1, worldofchris wrote:
Starting this in a new thread as the old one appears to be broken...Hi Jean-Michel,
Apologies for taking so long to get back to this thread, been really
busy on some other, but related stuff - deriving UML Class Diagrams
from D-Bus introspection XML but that�s another story for another
group...
Now I can get back to Gherkin and UML Sequence Diagrams.
> we could use http://github.com/EmmanuelOga/websequencediagrams
> which generates sequence diagrams on http://www.websequencediagrams.com/
> using a super simple DSL: Alice->Bob: Authentication RequestI like the idea of targeting http://www.websequencediagrams.com/ but
it's missing some key things for me namely:
-No Lifeline Constraints
-No way of representing Asynchronous Stimuli � e.g. Send a Message
For the work I'm doing I kinda need both!
Also, I don't think the websequencediagrams.com is _that_ much simpler
than Mykhaylo Sorochan's DSL for UMLGraph.Finally I don't like the fact that websequencediagrams.com is not Open
Source.
Putting all that to one side I wouldn't rule it out as a target along
side Mykhaylo Sorochan's DSL for UMLGraph but I think the priority
should be working out the mapping between Gherkin steps and the
elements of a UML Sequence Diagram - i.e. �Object, Stimulus, Frame,
Lifeline Constraint etc.
I intend to do this 'Test First' by producing a set of example pairs
of Scenarios and Sequence Diagrams to show the input and expected
output of the process.
What do you think of this approach? �Would you be interested in
collaborating on producing these 'Tests'?
--Cheers
Chris
-- Rules --
�
1) Please prefix the subject with [Ruby], [JVM] or [JS].
2) Please use interleaved answers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
3) If you have a question, don't reply to an existing message. Start a new topic instead.
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>
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An interesting thread. I wanted to add a couple of points.
1. There is no such thing as an Agile tool. Its how you use it that counts. I have even used a Gantt Chart in the past on Microsoft Project. I used a Gantt chart to build a map of the dependencies so that I could systemetically remove them. Using a Gantt chart for planning would probably not be that Agile though.
2. I use UML (like) models within Agile projects. The key is that I use them to create model to help me find questions and examples. I do not use them to communicate requirements to the development teams because they are a lousy way of communicating. They have detail but no precision in the communication space. They are great for structuring your thoughts to help you find missing examples. UML (Language) should be UMT (Tool) as the models are tool and not a way to communicate effectively.
3. The G-W-T format was created with the express purpose of allowing non developers to communicate with developers in a way that did not require the developers to "re-think" the problem. G-W-T is a natural language expression of TDD with Mocks. I have seen people use Cucumber/specFlow in a non Agile manner. The two ways I've seen G-W-T used in a non-Agile manner are:1. A huge pile of examples is developed before development starts.2. Its an IT only thing with no engagement with the projects customer. ( This resulted in truly bizarre G-W-T examples )