Our editorial cartoon this morning

[Paul Sisco]

[Don Wade]

Paul, it doesn't seem funny to us. The previous administration had a 1 percent growth for most of the last eight years. After six months we are at three percent and predicted to get to four if the tax reform bill somehow passes. 

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On Nov 20, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Paul Sisco <phs...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Paul Sisco]

Don,

 

The bill itself is very complicated and I don’t pretend to understand all of it or the implications down the road.  I’m not sure anyone knows for sure.

 

Another very interesting article in the Wall St. Journal today was by Larry Summers the economist.  He was asked to comment on the bill’s content.

 

Since the House and Senate versions are so different, we’ll have to see what eventually comes out.  If medical deductions are eliminated, as in the House bill, it will cost my life-long Republican Aunt Liz a ton of money.

 

I liked the cartoon because it was simple and clear – very cleverly done, I thought.  From what I’ve read in multiple sources, no tax cut has ever paid for itself in economic growth, so most people think bill this will increase the deficit.  They are using “smoke and mirrors” to keep the deficit increase below 1.5 trillion so they can pass it with 51 votes in the Senate. 

 

There’s something fundamentally wrong when people have huge houses in Asheville that they live in 2 or 3 weeks a year.  And that’s what’s happening.  I also know a cabinet maker here who had to rip out a million dollar kitchen and build another because the lady of the house changed her mind after it was built.  Too much of that we’ll have a revolutionary situation on our hands. 

 

I used to vote Republican (through 1988) because I thought they stood for more fiscal discipline.  But I don’t think either party does now, because the political cost of balancing the budget would be so high.  And one of the bankrupting future costs will be Medicare, which I assume all of us in this group are using.

 

I’ve read that prior to Medicare and Social Security elderly people were one of the worse-off groups in the country.  Now they are one of the better off.  And there are a lot of us over 65 who vote.  Whether that is a good or bad thing is up to one’s judgment about the country as a whole.  From a purely financial point of view it would help if we didn’t live so long. 

 

And I really feel for the younger generation, the Millennials, and the people who are not smart enough to get a technical education.  I’m not sure this bill or any other bill will help.  I was lucky enough to be born smart to frugal parents who gave me a good education.  Not everyone has had those advantages.  I’m for anything that can help them.  But I doubt trickle down economics will.

 

Paul

[Gene Fulghum]

We do know that the Tax Cut bill will result in billions of dollars for the Trump family.  I don't understand how eliminating the Estate Tax, which is only charged on Estates over 5.xx Billion, helps anybody but the extremely wealthy.

[Gene Fulghum]

And if the bill becomes law and the growth is not achieved, the trillions of dollars in revenue lost will have to be recouped from spending; and the spending that is threatened is social security and medicare, something Paul Ryan has wanted to do and something most of us are counting on.  Call your Representative!

[Mike DeZonia]

I believe the estate tax is charged on the amount an estate exceeds 5.5 Million, not Billion, at a rate of 40%. The new House bill initially raises that to 11 mil but in six years does away with estate tax all together.  The Senate bill just raises it to 11 mil. The House bill has the potential to benefit about 2% of tax payers. The Senate bill not so much, certainly not the Trump family and other extremely rich. In principle to me, it doesn't seem equitable to re-tax assets that taxes have already been paid on just because you die. On the other hand, tons of money in control of a few is a potential threat to democracy (campaign contributions, lobbyist) and is probably not the best thing for US of A. I would lean towards Senate bill.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 7:49 AM, 'Gene Fulghum' via Cubs63 <cub...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

We do know that the Tax Cut bill will result in billions of dollars for the Trump family.  I don't understand how eliminating the Estate Tax, which is only charged on Estates over 5.xx Billion, helps anybody but the extremely wealthy.

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Sisco <phs...@gmail.com>
To: cubs63 <cub...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 20, 2017 9:01 pm
Subject: RE: [Cubs63:8065] Our editorial cartoon this morning

Don,

 

The bill itself is very complicated and I don’t pretend to understand all of it or the implications down the road.  I’m not sure anyone knows for sure.

 

Another very interesting article in the Wall St. Journal today was by Larry Summers the economist.  He was asked to comment on the bill’s content.

 

Since the House and Senate versions are so different, we’ll have to see what eventually comes out.  If medical deductions are eliminated, as in the House bill, it will cost my life-long Republican Aunt Liz a ton of money.

 

I liked the cartoon because it was simple and clear – very cleverly done, I thought.  From what I’ve read in multiple sources, no tax cut has ever paid for itself in economic growth, so most people think bill this will increase the deficit.  They are using “smoke and mirrors” to keep the deficit increase below 1.5 trillion so they can pass it with 51 votes in the Senate. 

 

There’s something fundamentally wrong when people have huge houses in Asheville that they live in 2 or 3 weeks a year.  And that’s what’s happening.  I also know a cabinet maker here who had to rip out a million dollar kitchen and build another because the lady of the house changed her mind after it was built.  Too much of that we’ll have a revolutionary situation on our hands. 

 

I used to vote Republican (through 1988) because I thought they stood for more fiscal discipline.  But I don’t think either party does now, because the political cost of balancing the budget would be so high.  And one of the bankrupting future costs will be Medicare, which I assume all of us in this group are using.

 

I’ve read that prior to Medicare and Social Security elderly people were one of the worse-off groups in the country.  Now they are one of the better off.  And there are a lot of us over 65 who vote.  Whether that is a good or bad thing is up to one’s judgment about the country as a whole.  From a purely financial point of view it would help if we didn’t live so long. 

 

And I really feel for the younger generation, the Millennials, and the people who are not smart enough to get a technical education.  I’m not sure this bill or any other bill will help.  I was lucky enough to be born smart to frugal parents who gave me a good education.  Not everyone has had those advantages.  I’m for anything that can help them.  But I doubt trickle down economics will.

 

Paul

 

From: cub...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cubs63@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Wade
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:09 PM
To: cub...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Cubs63:8064] Our editorial cartoon this morning

 

Paul, it doesn't seem funny to us. The previous administration had a 1 percent growth for most of the last eight years. After six months we are at three percent and predicted to get to four if the tax reform bill somehow passes. 

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 20, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Paul Sisco <phs...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Mike Murphy]

This Forbes article highlights the problems with the current tax reform legislation being proposed by the GOP. 

GOP Tax Bill Is The End Of All Economic Sanity In Washington

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2017/11/19/gop-tax-bill-is-the-end-of-all-economic-sanity-in-washington/#2404640f77ef

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[Paul Sisco]

Thanks, Mike,

 

I appreciate thoughtful articles, and Forbes advertises itself as the “capitalist tool”.

 

Paul

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[Gene Fulghum]

My error it is million not billion.  Lots of states have estate tax, New Jersey exempts $650,000.

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[Paul Sisco]

And lots of ways for rich folks with good lawyers to get around these taxes.  One commentator said this tax bill would guarantee employment to tax attorneys and CPAs for another generation.

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[Christina Winter]

Thanks, I am enjoying reading this thread of comments on the taxes etc. Best, Tina

Christina S. Winter

christina...@gmail.com

919.868.0287

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[Gene Fulghum]

It's called an irrevocable family trust.  

[Margaret Macdonald]

Now we are going to have Net Neutrality.  What a lovely Thanksgiving surprise.  If sex with little girls is not a game changer, perhaps one's ability to stream Netflix will engage one enough to wonder how it plays out. Perhaps it will not matter as the effects of this will take another year or so and the midterm elections will be over, the Mercers will have won and your children will be paying the cost.  Gracious me.

[Don Wade]

All bills are complicated and things are added to get pork and unrelated things in. That is common knowledge and been going on forever. It is why bills that would be good are voted down or voted for ,with costly junk being approved. Journalist with a history of being obviously liberal are pretty sure to spin anything they write or say to fit their agenda. Most people would agree to this truism. It bothers you that people in Asheville who have second homes that they never visit is a terrible thing. Regardless that they may have earned or been passed on their wealth by someone who earned it. It bothers us that we know people who are living in $150,000 dollar homes waiting and expecting a government handout. Karen and I have worked hard our whole life teaching kids, trying to make their lives better. That $150,000 home is where we live, and are proud we earned it. One of our grandsons plays shortstop at Guilford College, he is a senior. Guilford is division 3, and gives no athletic scholarships, when he graduates this spring he will owe 80,000. He can tell you about more than one young man who plays basketball who will owe nothing. Our  grandson has been on the Deans list, and   our Mr. will owe nothing sleeps thru and skips class. Who do you think will work had to   pay off his student loans and earn his on way. Who will probably be waiting by his mailbox waiting for a gov handout, paid by the taxes of you guessed it, grandson. Oh, and by the way grandson had to endure a riot of the black lives matter students damaging one of the buildings without ANY consequences.  Paul can you in anyway relate to our conservative   views, or is this just two crazy, uncaring people, who have no idea of what is happening to this country.  D.  PS Hope you are giving T  a little credit for lowest unemployment in 17 years, and growth Holidays rate of three percent, after 7 years of one percent. Happy Hollidays.

Sent from my iPad

[Don Wade]

Gene do you know who this commentator is and what network he was on. That might be good to know so we could put it in perspective.

Sent from my iPad

[Don Wade]

Is it at all noteworthy that it has been forty years, came right before an election, and the he is guilty before any chance to be found innocent. I will say this, we have five daughters, and everyone of them would have told us. I promise you this, I would have, at all cost, beat the hell out of him. But then if my daughter, even tho being nineteen, would have been used by Bill Clinton, the most protected sexual predator in politics, and still hero of the Democratic Party, he would have gotten and deserved the same thing. What a perverted scum bag. We really need some statues of B.C. We could have a state trooper vehicle with Bill and some prostitute in the back seat. What say you Margo. Happy H.  D    

Sent from my iPad

[Don Wade]

Gene that was a significant error million/billion. How did that happen?  You have a lot of people trusting everything you say. You are probably embarrassed but it happens to all of us. I 'm glad there was someone to give us the right info. HH. D

Sent from my iPad

[Christina Winter]

Paul - Love it.  All, keep the best ones coming!  I have always love satire and well done political cartoons (on both sides of the aisle). 

Finished polishing the silver yesterday, on to table flowers, pecan pies, and final touches for family tomorrow.  The GG's are coming over today to join in the baking fest. 

Happy Thanksgiving to each of you. 

Best, Tina

Christina S. Winter

christina...@gmail.com

919.868.0287

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Paul Sisco <phs...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Gene Fulghum]

That was Paul that referred to the Commentator.  I just stated what, in my opinion, is the best way to avoid Estate Taxes. 

[Gene Fulghum]

I was probably thinking of the billions in revenue, the repeal of the Estate Tax will cost the Country, and the billions that will have to be cut from Federal spending
in years to come as a result of the Tax Cuts now being considered.  Where do you think those spending cuts will come from?  Answer:  look to the loopholes being cut - deductions from Interest payments on student loans -deductions for payments teachers make for school supplies -etc.  (Should interest you, Karen and your son.     

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wade <dwad...@comcast.net>
To: cubs63 <cub...@googlegroups.com>

[Gene Fulghum]

Of course, closing those type loop holes won't be nearly enough.  Congress will have to look to the entitlement programs, Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. 

[Gene Fulghum]

Everyone in Alabama has to make up their own mind, but this case, just as the cases against Democrats should not be based on which party's candidate is being accused.  I have lots of experience in this field, having represented clients on numerous discrimination cases.  Each case always comes down to "He said- She said".  Credibility of the witnesses are crucial.  As an attorney I had to evaluate credibility based on demeanor, and decide whether to take the case or not.  I was not that impressed with Gloria's client, but was extremely impressed by Corfman.  Not enough of Judge Moore to make a judgment. 

The question is not proof of guilt, but which testimony is more probable.  Forty years might be a question, if this were the first time the complaint has been raised.  Corfman did, however, tell her mother, coworkers and friends.  That is a key, and I required such evidence before I would take a case.  Pattern, this is not one case but multiple cases, all involving teen agers.  Those supporting the Judge never witnessed the misbehavior - Pedophiles depend on gaining the trust of those around their victims, so naturally their behavior is not open.  Right before an election - Good reporting  - the Post reporters went down  heard some rumors and sought Corfman out. Corfman did not want to stand alone and said that if there were others she would tell what happened. She's a Republican, the closeness to the elections irrelevant.  Judge Moore is saying this is some kind of conspiracy.  When you have nothing else to say, the defense is always "they" are out to get "us".  Per her picture Corfman was a pretty teenager.   She now has put on a lotta of weight.  So have I, (and I have not been abused) however, it is common for one that has been abused to make oneself unattractive. 

Hope all of you have a great Thanksgiving. 

    

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wade <dwad...@comcast.net>
To: cubs63 <cub...@googlegroups.com>

[Don Wade]

Christina, I can only assume it depends on what party is being sattired. Would you consider a Arkansas State Trooper car parked with Clinton in the backseat with a prostitute funny?

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:22 AM, Christina Winter <christina...@gmail.com> wrote:

Paul - Love it.  All, keep the best ones coming!  I have always love satire and well done political cartoons (on both sides of the aisle). 

Finished polishing the silver yesterday, on to table flowers, pecan pies, and final touches for family tomorrow.  The GG's are coming over today to join in the baking fest. 

Happy Thanksgiving to each of you. 

Best, Tina

Christina S. Winter

christina...@gmail.com

919.868.0287

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Paul Sisco <phs...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Don Wade]

Sent from my iPad

[Don Wade]

Gene we will look for ways to help my grandson debt. But we wanted to know if you think his 80,000 debt is unfair compared to the students we talked about that will owe nothing. Even our black friends complain about the stark difference. They are struggling with understanding such a huge differential. What do you think?

Sent from my iPad

[Don Wade]

I sure can't make a judgment either. As you said it's a he said she said forty year old deal. I wish it would have been greatly reported much sooner. I 'm not a lawyer, but have a friend who is. He says there is no way in hell that case could get a conviction. And we all know the journalist is a liberal one with his agenda. And Gene I was thinking of my 25 year coaching career. If a cheerleader from that far back came forward and accused me of sexual abuse, and then one or two more, I would be devastated. It would be completely false. Can you possibly imagine yourself in that situation? Again I can!t make that judgement based on body language or probability or anything less than some kind of proof. There is one thing that seems logical, however, one must feel like there is some political agenda in play. I'm sure you would agree, if the sides were turned, that would be the attitude of the other party. We just hope and pray our country can somehow come together before it is too late. I really believe most of our country want to be the unified. It seems that a low percentage of our people, for some reason, want discord. HH.  Don

Sent from my iPad

[Gene Fulghum]

If there was some way, I could get around the statute of limitations issue I would take Corfman's civil case on a contingency basis in a heartbeat.  So I have made a judgment on her case.  The proof required is by a preponderance of the evidence ie 51%.  Your attorney friend, denying a conviction may be thinking of a criminal conviction which requires proof beyond a treasonable doubt.  That is a doubt that is reasonable, one that you can identify and which would make you reluctant to act on a business decision.  As a prosecutor, I would still take Corfman's case. 

Civilly, I would also take a case against Franken, less sure about criminal case because of proof of intent, but he is toast as well.

[Gene Fulghum]

Personally, I graduated from Georgia Tech with no student debt, as I was on a full athletic (football) scholarship.  I worked the entire time for that scholarship, and I have hip replacements on both hips, and have difficulty raising either arm over my head.  All of which I credit to my football experience.  I also have some pain in my left knee, from a hit in high school  Luckily, I never had a concussion diagnosed.  Athletes pay for their scholarships, and they are paid for by all of us that want to watch them play.  They aren't paid for long if they don't earn it.  

[Margaret Macdonald]

My son went to Graduate School for free, but not exactly.  He taught classes for the school computer department.   That is how people got a graduate education in the 1980’s.   It was an edifying experience for him.  He learned that people who gave money to the school had the power to change the grades of their relatives.  He had a student whose father was a big donor.  The student never came to class and failed all his tests.  None the less, the student had to get a C.   My son  began to understand in a fundamental way that the power that enormous money brings to people may corrupt them almost absolutely.   Perhaps that is why the New Testament idea of distributive justice versus retributive justice appeals to him.  This does not mean that wealth is redistributed, it means that no one goes hungry or without a place to sleep.  It means to have great wealth is a great responsibility to care for others.  

When college tuition was tied to lotteries, the colleges received money per student for tuition.  I believe this began in the 1980’s.  Colleges received more money per student as tuition got higher.  Some experts believe the rise in tuition in state supported schools is related to lottery sales.  

Virginia’s lotteries are used to support public education for those under college age.  I believe most other states use this money for colleges.  The argument goes that as States reduced their funding for colleges and switch the funding over to lotteries and gaming, the cost of education got higher in order to have more money.  The money is used for huge stadiums and coaches salaries in SC.  Perhaps there is a better use.  (We can talk about how large corporations are funding studies in colleges to prove that their products are beneficial at some other time.)

 In any case, to go to college now is a huge cost.  When the loans were turned over to the banks, I believe this was in the 1990’s, the low fees on loans went away.  I do not know much about the history of this, but all of us went to college in a much better time as far as costs are concerned.  When we talk about college costs the change in how all of this is understood requires a lot of investigation.

Also there is the argument that sports do not fund schools in the way that people think they do, but in reality cost the schools money.  I do not know much about this, but am aware of the argument.

I worry about the education of my grandchildren.  Both my children were education on loans, scholarships, Pell Grants and work study.  I paid mostly for books and gas money out of pocket. 

Upper education availability is decreasing.  What does that say about a future for us.?  What is our responsibility here? 

Cheers, Margo

[Gene Fulghum]

aol is not sending this message   

[Gene Fulghum]

message didn't go through

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Fulghum <bef...@aol.com>
To: cubs63 <cub...@googlegroups.com>

[Don Wade]

I certainly agree athletically scholarships are worked for and earned. The scenario at Guilford ( Div. 3 ) that I described there no athletic scholarships. It's just free education. It just seems so unfair that two different twenty one year kids will have such a different obligation on graduation. I guess that is socialism at work. We just can't seem to do enough for our military disabled veterans, but give give to those who have done less to deserve. It is is like the house situation I mentioned. You might remember Billy Burl Inman from Davis Park. He is s a vet I have stayed in contact with thru the years. He got a bill for a hip operation this year of 20,000, Luckily we got some legal help,and got it to go away. He lives a life of very little, he told me he is putting off a hip operation until next year because of his health benefits being over. Do you remember him!  He never married, worked with kids his whole life and now he is in bad health, and in his mid eighties . I call him often, please say a prayer for a great Christian man.  As for the Moore case, you and I both know when the election is over, we will never hear of the case in court. It served it's purpose. I only wish I could bet on that ( big bucks ). Support our president and pray for unity for country. D

Sent from my iPad

[Don Wade]

Margo I understand we need to take care of the homeless and our veterans and we are not doing a very good job of that for sure. But we are sure spending too much on freeish education for some, while my grandson will owe 80,000 or more. And I sorry we are all about redistributing wealth. Pray for unity and support our president.  D

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