Fwd: SFBAPG List, alert from Mark Bernier

[Mark G. Forbes]

Saw this on the SF list, about increased kidnapping in Valle De Bravo.

Consider the risks when planning overseas travel, particularly to this

part of the world.

MGF

Begin forwarded message:

From: sfb...@googlegroups.com
Date: August 22, 2014 0:29:29 PDT
To: Digest recipients <sfb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [SFBAPGG] Digest for sfb...@googlegroups.com - 7 updates in 1 topic

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Mark Bernier <ma...@wingpilot.com> wrote:
 
EDIT: if doing a search, probably use these keywords: secuestro Mexico Valle de bravo
 
I do not want to get into a big debate about security while travelling. I tend to be more of adventurer that goes where everyone says I should not go. I have never had a problem as a lone traveler.
 
-------
 
But this is a brand new scenario that has been unfolding for the last couple of weeks. In no way, should anyone compare this to previous years. And of course, this will have hard-core impact on tourism in the area. That is why military is being sent in. To protect the tourism industry.
 
My perspective comes from this. I have lived in Mexico for 10 of the last 20 years (starting in 1994). This has includes going in-and-out of Guatemala and Chiapas during the highest embassy alerts for for serious incidents. I have always driven the back roads through the heart of Michoacan for a couple of stops. (Tettey prefers the direct toll roads. lol) For sure, I have travelled and visited more of Mexico than most Mexicans. They seem take their family vacations in the States or Europe. ;-)
 
For anyone who knows about my travels, I never put a caution flag so easily. In fact, I never have supported the fears of travel to Mexico (for mainland Mexico). I suppose that this falls under one of my personal unwritten rules -- Don't travel to tourist places. I used to consider Valle as a secret tourist place, but it seems the narcos are expanding their business.
 
In summary, I have three reasons for being cautious now:
 
1. incidents of foreigner kidnappings is worthy of alarm. In no way, is this a common occurrence in Mexico. I don't care what anyone says. Even Mexicans are laughing at what the local mayor is saying. Everything is safe. That was last week. Kidnapping have continued. lol
 
2. the newer cartels are become brutal, specifically the Zetas. Not just drug trafficking. Very indiscriminate against their own people. This did not happen in the past.
 
3. There are official US reports about ISIS (read news for middle-east) working with Mexican cartels. Create your own theory, but ISIS has publicly said they will go for Americans anywhere. This changes the game. It is not just about ISIS crossing the US southern border.
 
So, would I travel to Valle? On a bet, I probably would do it (against Tettey's wishes). A factor is that, now the military is going in to the area with checkpoints. This is a sort of protection, that most Paraglider tourists have not seen on the road from the Toluca Airport.
 
So I am not saying to not go to Valle. But don't be a dumb tourist. Just be aware.
 
I am jsut holding up a Caution Flag....and giving a friendly update to the national news that has been brewing here on all of the Mexican news channels. Yep. On the news channels. Everyone is surprised.
 
Cheers!
 
Mark
 

[Jeff Wishnie]

Don’t read too much into those state department notices. They are _extremely_ conservative. They issued a similar notice for ALL of western Europe last year or the year before. 

-- 
Jeff

On August 22, 2014 at 10:00:48 AM, John Bailey (transform...@gmail.com) wrote:

Nice post, Mark. Thanks.

U.S. State Department says:

Estado de Mexico: Toluca and Teotihuacan are major travel destinations in Estado de Mexico - Defer non-essential travel to the municipalities of Coacalco, Ecatepec, Nezahualcoyotl, La Paz, Valle del Chalco, Solidaridad, Chalco, and Ixtapaluca, which are eastern portions of the greater Mexico City metropolitan area, located just to the east of the Federal District of Mexico and Benito Juarez airport, unless traveling directly through the areas on major thoroughfares.  These areas have seen high rates of crime and insecurity.  You should also defer non-essential travel on any roads between Santa Marta in the southeast portion of the state and Huitzilac in the state of Morelos, including the Lagunas de Zempoala National Park and surrounding areas.


http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/mexico-travel-warning.html

I think I'll look elsewhere for a Winter retreat...

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[Eric Miller]

I'd have to agree.  When I went to Zimbabwe for 3 months some concerned people sent me links to this type of stuff but I went anyhow and found it to be perfectly safe.  Mexico has been getting a bad rap these days due to the drug crime, which is prob very real, but the locals will all tell you it's "entre ellos", between them, so as long as you are not involved you're fine.  A couple years ago when I was in Valle de Bravo a local told me that they had found some bodies up on the mountain somewhere, but I felt totally safe hitchhiking from everywhere that I landed out.  In reality, the most dangerous experiences I've ever had have all been on US soil, so while there is obviously truth to what the state dept warns of, it's indeed extremely conservative, and I personally wouldn't defer a trip based on that info.  You are better off reading pgforum or posting something there asking about safety as there are many local Mexican pilots who use the forum and can give you more realistic advice.

My 2 cents,

ERiC 

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[l.dan...@comcast.net]

I agree with these responses and I think Eric sums it up very well. I will add that a few years back my wife and I, along with our oldest son, were in Juarez which had a more serious advisory: It also had been ranked one of the two or three “most dangerous cities in the world” by a number of news sources (most likely using very unscientific data). We felt pretty safe where we were staying (although the presence of many federales, local police and private security was a bit unnerving) and saw nothing out of the ordinary as far as personal safety went: The fact that there was a nice abandonded water park which we would have paid to enjoy on a hot June day says something about the economic effect of “concentrated crime” on the city as a whole: There were certain spots to stay away from but a pre-trip research was sufficient to figure out the dos and don’ts. Generally speaking the crimes related to personal harm were restricted to those who are/were already involved in something unreputable and the specific neighborhoods to stay away from were well established. This most likely holds true in other “areas of concern” around the world as it does in US cities. Even with one of the biggest concerns, which is probably express kidnappings, the victims are general Mexican nationals (which isn’t good either of course but a little reassurance for us nonetheless). Like most governments, the Mexican government is very cognizant of tourist income, and most criminals know that the wrath of the law could indeed be higher if a foreign national is harmed (China being an extreme example of this): This would be especially true in areas frequented by foreign tourists. Of course it generally makes the news when it happens so we assume that it happens more often than it does.

 

Luke

[johnk...@gmail.com]

Unfortunately the media is more about drama than fact these days. Our society thrives on drama, that's why we go to movies, read fiction, watch professional sports and the six o'clock news...and, its why people gossip, ..all about the drama.  On the positive side there are those of us who can wade thru all the b.s. and sort out the facts and not be diminished by the fear mongers. Good on you guys Eric and Luke!

 

Sent from my Sprint phone.

 

 

------ Original message------

From :

Date: Tue, 9/30/2014 10:57 AM

To: ericm...@gmail.com;je...@pacskyways.com;

Cc: CPC Groups;

Subject:CPC: Re: {RVHPA} Re: SFBAPG List, alert from Mark Bernier

[johnk...@gmail.com]

Awe yes, where would we (we being those of us who foot launch free fly) be if we prescribed t government fear mongering?

 

Sent from my Sprint phone.

 

 

------ Original message------

From: Jeff Wishnie

Date: Tue, 9/30/2014 9:44 AM

To: John Bailey;rv...@googlegroups.com;

Cc: ohga...@yahoogroups.com;cp...@googlegroups.com;cb...@yahoogroups.com;

Subject:CPC: Re: {RVHPA} Re: SFBAPG List, alert from Mark Bernier

 

Don’t read too much into those state department notices. They are _extremely_ conservative. They issued a similar notice for ALL of western Europe last year or the year before.