Helicopter Rescue Prices.

[Discover Paragliding!]

Just got this off the OZ Report. Rather disturbing. Apparently, depending on your air ambulance, costs could now range upwards of $50,000.00 for a simple evacuation to a nearby hospital. The rich getting richer... :-(

http://ozreport.com/1472141272

Brad

--

See you up there!

Brad and Maren
Your 'Couple' of Instructors
2015 USHPA Instructors of the Year!
www.DiscoverParagliding.com
Phone: 503-440-0733 (c)

[Travis Potter]

It gets worse. You could easily break a leg at Cliffside and get unlucky, unlike Vince...and get transport to the closest hospital which cannot fix broken bones...you would get a CT Scan and "stabilized" and then almost certainly be transferred to another ER with a second Ambulance Ride for "Definitive Care." 

 

If any of us need to go to a hospital in the Gorge, got to Mid Columbia in the Dalles, unless you are closer to Hood River. I wouldn't let myself or anybody I care about go to a hospital in White Salmon or Goldendale. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cascade Paragliding Club" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cpcl+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[David Le]

Good to know, thanks Travis

On Aug 25, 2016 2:45 PM, "Travis Potter" <second...@gmail.com> wrote:

It gets worse. You could easily break a leg at Cliffside and get unlucky, unlike Vince...and get transport to the closest hospital which cannot fix broken bones...you would get a CT Scan and "stabilized" and then almost certainly be transferred to another ER with a second Ambulance Ride for "Definitive Care." 

 

If any of us need to go to a hospital in the Gorge, got to Mid Columbia in the Dalles, unless you are closer to Hood River. I wouldn't let myself or anybody I care about go to a hospital in White Salmon or Goldendale. 

[Ancil Nance]

https://www.lifeflight.org/membership/become-a-member/lfn-air-membership

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cascade Paragliding Club" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cpcl+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Ancil

[Discover Paragliding!]

Ancil,

Yes, this has been a standby for Maren and I for years. Never needed it. Never expect to need it. Never expect to use my reserve either...

I think though, that we need to keep an eye on Lifeflight and it's benefits as this seems to be a trending action as big money is buying out these rescue services. It would be tragic to lose Lifeflight to these over the top greed mongers. :-(

Brad

See you up there!

Brad and Maren
Your 'Couple' of Instructors
2015 USHPA Instructors of the Year!
www.DiscoverParagliding.com
Phone: 503-440-0733 (c)

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cpcl+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Erik Otterholt]

Okay, I can't pass this up. I call bullshit brad. I've been on one. Has anyone else. Stop the corporate greed bullshit it's tired and old. I worked in alaska as a heli guide years ago. Back then a basic A star was $1800 hr no pilot, no fuel. The birds they fly to save lives are much more expensive and then add all the ALS to them. Then add 2 trauma nurses. Then factor that some passengers never pay the bill how'd you like it if 40% of your students didn't pay you? How much would you be charging then. Don't forget they are coming to save your LIFE. Yes, these companies do make profit. That's their right. If you don't like it, you don't have to go in one, that is unless your unresponsive and close to death. These things do cost money, they do save lives. I'm sick of this liberal bull where when companies charge a lot or they merge to manage costs it must be all about greed. That's always the line when something costs a lot. Stop it I'm sick of and don't post that shit here.
Ican attest, the in flight service was a little lacking, I mean a sprite and peanuts at least, but I had a concussion in which I didn't remember 20-30 minutes. My head was half torn off and if I had any brain swelling I would have died. I was grateful for the service. Happy to pay my bill and grateful to the men and women who staff them. BTW, you know they risk their lives too. Serval have died in flight trying to save other.

Shame on you and those who bring out the tired line of greed. Something in life are worth the money. Like a life.

[Michael Cook]

I like ponies?

[Discover Paragliding!]

I remember years ago, one of ours had to get a rescue from near Mt. St. Helens. The bill, I was told, was around $5,000.00. Seemed way reasonable to me. Bird was in the air about an hour. I know there is inflation and we should certainly account for that. No worries. I am all for companies making a decent profit. I too really want them to be up there flying!

I was just struggling on a 10 fold increase for a couple of hang pilots in Florida that were a quick recovery but charged $50,000 each. In the article, it talks about hedge fund managers looking for ways to maximize profits. Interesting read.

Happy to have a life flight service available to us, and I have supported them with my annual 'donation' for many years.

How much was your bill for your rescue? Any other details? I would be curious. If I am uneducated on this, please help me out.

Brad

See you up there!

Brad and Maren
Your 'Couple' of Instructors
2015 USHPA Instructors of the Year!
www.DiscoverParagliding.com
Phone: 503-440-0733 (c)

On 8/26/2016 8:22 AM, Erik Otterholt wrote:

Okay, I can't pass this up. I call bullshit brad. I've been on one. Has anyone else. Stop the corporate greed bullshit it's tired and old. I worked in alaska as a heli guide years ago. Back then a basic A star was $1800 hr no pilot, no fuel. The birds they fly to save lives are much more expensive and then add all the ALS to them. Then add 2 trauma nurses.  Then factor that some passengers never pay the bill how'd you like it if 40% of your students didn't pay you? How much would you be charging then.  Don't forget they are coming to save your LIFE.  Yes, these companies do make profit. That's their right. If you don't like it, you don't have to go in one, that is unless your unresponsive and close to death. These things do cost money, they do save lives. I'm sick of this liberal bull where when companies charge a lot or they merge to manage costs it must be all about greed. That's always the line when something costs a lot. Stop it I'm sick of and don't post that shit here. 

Ican attest, the in flight service was a little lacking, I mean a sprite and peanuts at least, but I had a concussion in which I didn't remember 20-30 minutes. My head was half torn off and if I had any brain swelling I would have died. I was great flu for the service. Happy to pay my bill and great flu to the men and women who staff them. BTW, you know they risk their lives too. Serval have died in flight trying to save other. 

Shame on you and those who bring out the tired line of greed. Something in life are worth the money. Like a life. 

[Gliderpete]

Hmmm. There is validity to both sides of this one. Charging a reasonable price for a service is how free enterprise works, but laws against monopoly are there for a good reason. None of us peons really can calculate the costs associated with a service like this and it is very good of Eric to enumerate many of the less apparent ones. Pete

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Erik Otterholt <erik...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Okay, I can't pass this up. I call bullshit brad. I've been on one. Has anyone else. Stop the corporate greed bullshit it's tired and old. I worked in alaska as a heli guide years ago. Back then a basic A star was $1800 hr no pilot, no fuel. The birds they fly to save lives are much more expensive and then add all the ALS to them. Then add 2 trauma nurses. Then factor that some passengers never pay the bill how'd you like it if 40% of your students didn't pay you? How much would you be charging then. Don't forget they are coming to save your LIFE. Yes, these companies do make profit. That's their right. If you don't like it, you don't have to go in one, that is unless your unresponsive and close to death. These things do cost money, they do save lives. I'm sick of this liberal bull where when companies charge a lot or they merge to manage costs it must be all about greed. That's always the line when something costs a lot. Stop it I'm sick of and don't post that shit here.
>
> Ican attest, the in flight service was a little lacking, I mean a sprite and peanuts at least, but I had a concussion in which I didn't remember 20-30 minutes. My head was half torn off and if I had any brain swelling I would have died. I was great flu for the service. Happy to pay my bill and great flu to the men and women who staff them. BTW, you know they risk their lives too. Serval have died in flight trying to save other.
>
> Shame on you and those who bring out the tired line of greed. Something in life are worth the money. Like a life.
>

[Erik Otterholt]

$17k from Home Valley to Emanuel in Portland. 25 minutes or less in the bird. That was 2005. I look at times like the incident in the Owens in 2010. I called for life flight. The woman was single 38 might not have even considered a will at that point. She died in flight to Reno. So the flight time from Reno to the Owens, almost an hour. Then about 30 minutes standby on site till they flew. Diverted in flight back to Reno due to protocol when a patient goes into arrest. Probably over 3 hours total on that crew. Then the company most likely has to have an attorney put a lien against her estate. All that stuff happens all the time. Those who do pay pay a premium to cover those who cannot. All in all, it would probably take a year or longer if at all for them to receive the funds from that flight. Think of how often these companies never see payment. Yet in their field they have to transport without guarantee of payment. They never asked me if I could pay, they said "your going"!

Thanks for tolerating my rant. This is one I'm passionate about. I didn't see the article. I'd like to read it. Although I must say I've lost respect for journalists these days. It seems the always find ways for their stories to fit their narrative. I miss journalists like Edward R Murrow (most of you probably don't know he graduated from Washington State. ). Or men like Walter Cronkite, Woodward and Bernstein. Those were journalist

[Dirk Larson]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Erik Otterholt <erik...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> $17k from Home Valley to Emanuel in Portland. 25 minutes or less in the bird. That was 2005. I look at times like the incident in the Owens in 2010. I called for life flight. The woman was single 38 might not have even considered a will at that point. She died in flight to Reno. So the flight time from Reno to the Owens, almost an hour. Then about 30 minutes standby on site till they flew. Diverted in flight back to Reno due to protocol when a patient goes into arrest. Probably over 3 hours total on that crew. Then the company most likely has to have an attorney put a lien against her estate. All that stuff happens all the time. Those who do pay pay a premium to cover those who cannot. All in all, it would probably take a year or longer if at all for them to receive the funds from that flight. Think of how often these companies never see payment. Yet in their field they have to transport without guarantee of payment. They never asked me if I could pay, they said "your going"!
>
> Thanks for tolerating my rant. This is one I'm passionate about. I didn't see the article. I'd like to read it. Although I must say I've lost respect for journalists these days. It seems the always find ways for their stories to fit their narrative. I miss journalists like Edward R Murrow (most of you probably don't know he graduated from Washington State. ). Or men like Walter Cronkite, Woodward and Bernstein. Those were journalist
>

[Discover Paragliding!]

Why worry about LifeFlight, when we have a Tardis?!? ;-)

I have absolutely no problem paying the 'heroes' (seriously, they are) that run these rigs, and their respective business managers and fair and even good profit. But I get really annoyed at the thought of a hedge fund guy turning it into a profit center for his investors. If/when that happens, the guys who are out there risking their necks and saving our lives will not likely be better off for it, nor will we. :-(

Here was the original link:

http://ozreport.com/1472141272

Brad

See you up there!

Brad and Maren
Your 'Couple' of Instructors
2015 USHPA Instructors of the Year!
www.DiscoverParagliding.com
Phone: 503-440-0733 (c)

[Erik Otterholt]

So I read the oz and related articles, as it currently sits they haven't been bought by a hedge fund. Only that a hedge fund was looking at purchasing them.

"Voce Capital Management, a San Francisco-based hedge fund, has asked air ambulance company Air Methods Corp. to consider selling itself to a private equity firm and escaping the publicly traded atmosphere. "

[Michael Cook]

There are a few fundamental questions that you have to ask and answer here. One is whether or not we want a for profit health care system or not. If we decide health care is similar to law enforcement or fire services and we want it to be non profit we then have to decide which of these ancillary services fall under that mandate. Different countries handle this in different ways and I am not enough of an expert to have an opinion about air ambulance in particular. The questions about non payment and the subsidization of those bills by those who CAN and DO pay is another very, very important question. It's also a complicated one that seems to fire up political extremes. Seems to me the only fair way of handling that issue is requiring (or providing) health insurance for EVERYONE. That would manage the deadbeat factor and those of us responsible enough to have medical insurance could stop subsidizing those who don't. A third question would be why, exactly, are these services so expensive and is there a way to create an insurance system for them in particular as you find in Switzerland?

Complicated.

[Erik Otterholt]

Yes I want for profit health care.

Health care isn't expensive because it's for profit. It's expensive because we need torte reform. The money is going to the lawyers.

[Erik Otterholt]

Also, it's un-American to force people to buy something.

[jeffrey wishnie]

Like car insurance, or professional licensing fees, or taxes?

It's very American to force people to buy things.

--

Jeff

typed with thumbs. please excuse the errors.

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Erik Otterholt <erik...@mac.com> wrote:

Also, it's un-American to force people to buy something.

[Dirk Larson]

This seems like a better conversation for y'all's Facebook pages and not CPC chat. 

Now go fly! 

Sent from my iPhone

[jeffrey wishnie]

Yes please! Where are people heading?

--

Jeff

typed with thumbs. please excuse the errors.

[Erik Otterholt]

Car insurance is not mandatory. You have choice to own a car. If you choose not to own a car, your not required to buy it.

The government is given authority to tax under Article 1, section 8, clause 1. of the United States Constitution, grants the federal government of the United States its power of taxation. While authorizing Congress to levy taxes, this clause permits the levying of taxes for two purposes only: to pay the debts of the United States, and to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.

Humm. I think the federal government is taxing us to do much more then they were given permission to under the constitution. But, they do have the authority to tax. ie. not forced upon us.

[Erik Otterholt]

Oh, professional fees, often charged by non-goverment entities like associations professionals belong to. CPA, CFP, ect..

[JZ]

I’m going to check out Chehalem in a bit. 

[Michael Cook]

I like ponies.