Battlebots!

[Tim Eastwood]

Hi all!

As some of you may have heard, I'm keen to build and use a battlebot... :) A couple of others from the space have expressed interest also, as have a smattering of people from other websites, including the OCAU forums and robowars.org.

I just saw this post from a user over at robowars in an active thread about getting something going in Melbourne:

There is still an Arena (it probably needs a more solid roof built than the netting we used to use) in storage at SideTracked Entertainment Center in Oakleigh 
It got packed up and put away because after I had to stop organizing events (after nearly 10 years doing them), it seemed that a lot of the builders couldn't be bothered keeping things going. Gary (Rotwang) tried hard to keep things moving, but without beating the bushes and encouragement, the less dedicated builders didnt show.. 
 
So, that was all a while ago now, and Gary has recently found some time to get his hand back in. If someone else is willing to organize events, I might build another bot myself too. 
 
If enough keen builders can be found, it might be possible to convince Sidetracked to hold another event - they have rebuilt their dodgem car arena which would be a great place to assemble the robowars arena - but Im not going to run any more events myself.. 
Ill put in a good word to the owner of Sidetracked if Im convinced that someone has been found that will do a good professional responsible job of it, but I dont have the time or inclination to be what is essentially like being the host of a party. you work really hard to make sure everyone else has a good time, and barely have any time to enjoy it yourself. 
 
[cue Lorax Voice] 
So, prospective melbourne buiders, I just thought Id let you know that there *is already 90% of a ready built arena *and a great public venue for RoboWars events lurking in the background.. but you'll have to get a decent field of working builders and bots together *first, *and find a ringmaster to run the show. If you can do that, then Melbourne events *might come back to life.

So... If you or any of your friends would like to get into this it would be great if you could come forward and express an interest. I think this would be a bunch of fun, relatively inexpensive and cakewalk for new builders/tinkerers to get into. Once we have one or two working bots around the space others will surely follow! It'd also help to get the word out about the hackerspace and a battlebots comp is exactly the demographic we'd want to be exposed to. I'm dedicated to making this work but some commitment from other interested parties is clearly needed. As well, there are a bunch of people around the local area who have bots but haven't been into it for a number of years who will no doubt appear from the woodwork once things warm up.

I heard some hesitation from people who've seen shows like the American "battlebots" who are concerned about their hard work being destroyed into little pieces (and i personally can't afford to replace expensive components every round). Based on what I've seen the most popular class of robot here in Aus is the 'sportsman' where spinner-type bots are banned and winning is based more on flipping, trapping and wrestling the opponent into submission or accumulating more points in the allotted time by demonstrating creative flair and skill.

Dont be shy now!

[Kevin Barker]

I am interested. I don't have a bot. I would attend events.

There are a number of engineers where I work that may be interested. I'll pass the word around. 

[Jai]

I think the Swinburne tinkerers guild would put in a bot, and also be keen to work on things like hazards for the arena. 

jai

On 14/09/2015, at 16:44, Kevin Barker <0xf...@barkweb.com.au> wrote:

I am interested. I don't have a bot. I would attend events.

There are a number of engineers where I work that may be interested. I'll pass the word around. 

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[damie...@gmail.com]

I helped build a robot that was in Battlebots a few years ago at SideTracked (Huntingdale/Oakleigh). IIRC, it was in an exhibition class ~ 25kg.

The frame, kevlar+fibreglass armour, motor-controller, and motors for the robot are in the back room of CCHS. The gel batteries are there, too, but weren't taking a change last time I looked, and that was some time ago. 

Needs a new microcontroller, batteries, software, means of control, and some TLC.

To be fair, the original processor board (since removed) was expensive and fragile, and the overall design isn't very battle-oriented -- very tough, good speed and manoeuvrability, and some redundancy...but lacking in offensive ability.

Does anyone else think this is a good place to start hacking with before iterating into something more specialised for the combat arena? If there's enough interest to use this chassis to explore the basics, then I'm up for it.

Cheers,

Damien

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[Tim Eastwood]

Thanks for the replies :) 

@Kevin. It would be great to see you there even without a bot!

@Jai. Can you pass the word onto the Swinburne tinkerers and see if they are interested in throwing their hat into the ring? or link me their site

@Damien. That sounds awesome! Definitely an excellent base for a bot. I have some R/C gear that might prove useful, especially the LiPos as upgrades/replacements to gel cells. Might need to get a new radio set though. Where abouts in the back room is it, if you're ok with me taking a peek? I'll be in through the week to do some 3D printing

I am meeting with a couple of guys from robowars this saturday the 19th to check out the arena they have in storage. You guys are welcome to join and help me figure out what changes if any might need to me made to get it up and running again

cheers

tim

[damie...@gmail.com]

Tim, you're welcome to have a look. :)

It's stored in a red/maroon-coloured suitcase approx 50x80cm. Last I saw, it's in the back room, though I can't confirm where it's been re-organised to. I removed the wheels and motors, and tested the motors independently on the bench.

From memory, the motor-controller board has inputs for servo signals. There's no documentation, but hopefully we can look-up the specs on its components / H-bridge. Motors were wired as left and right pairs to steer like a tank, with speed controlled by PWM.

Happy to meet-up on Saturday if you want -- where and when?

Cheers,

Damien

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[Ajax Ozy]

Hi Tim,

I know the event very well. I had a bot that I was going to compete with, but due to circumstance, it never competed. But did bounce around the arena, at one event (and I mean bounce)

the first year it was run the arena was set up in the dodgem cars area. but there was major interference with the radios for a number of reasons.

From then it was always setup next to the go-cart track near there private room. that was used as the pits.


It could be easier to run an event for smaller class bots. RoboWars at sidetrack was mainly for the 13.5Kg class bots.

For these bots. most if not all parts are not of the shelf items.
Running a smaller class the controllers from a remote control store would be fine.

also running a smaller class means less safety issues that you need to be worried about. there is a lot to think about what dealing with a 13.5Kg bot with weapons.

[Kevin Barker]

Just tell me where and when Tim! I'm hiding in the SE suburbs. Oakleigh is pretty easy to reach from where I am.

What class (classes) are we talking about here? Looking at the robowars.org site, there are all sorts of weight divisions.

[Tim Eastwood]

Hi there

One of the guys from RoboWars is going to meet me at SideTracked in Oakleigh this saturday. You're welcome to come along and I would much appreciate any additional presence :) He is a bit on the fence about whether he can make it, he has said he'll confirm friday. If not, we'll meet the following weekend.

@Damien: WOW! This bot is a work of art, I love it :) I whipped it out tuesday night for a peek, it looks the goods. My mind is full of ideas of what to do with it and I think I may have the gear to get it up and running without needing to buy anything for now.  What is the logo painted on the side? I can't make out what it says.

http://i.imgur.com/fSdv0zM.jpg

@Kevin: I think the 13.5kg weight class would be ideal for a first battle and we should aim for bots to come in under that limit. As we get going it could also be acceptable to just let any willing builder put their bot in the ring as long as the other competitors are okay with it if it means they won't be able to compete otherwise. I noticed they ran two types of competitions, one where spinners/wedgers are allowed and another where they aren't. The latter might be a good start, thoughts?

Moving Damien's bot away from gel batteries and possibly a few other modifications may get it under the weight limit, we'll see, i have no idea what it weighs currently but it didn't feel overly heavy at all. 

@Ajax: Would be great to see your bot up and running. Gonna bring it out to the 'space? :)

[Ajax Ozy]

This is a incomplete CAD drawing of my Robot

I need to fix the wheels up as they are to heavy. 

And finish the support arm design

I currently don't have access to the bot. In storage.

[damie...@gmail.com]

Ajax:

Very impressive robot!

I like how the wheels serve double-duty as propulsion and armour.

Tim: 

Glad you like it, thankyou!

Some other features:

* Front and back of the frame have a circular hole/socket. We made a pair of sharpened spikes approx 10-15 cm long for ramming attack, but they got removed for safety/storage and misplaced.

* Front top panel has small bump (on the left in your photo) with a forward-facing window of polycarb, made to house a webcam for streaming POV video.

* Cutouts in the top panel mean it runs equally well if flipped onto its back -- to avoid confusion, mirror left/right controls in software on the fly.

* There's a couple of scoops like bulldozer blades, but I suspect these were more of a liability than an asset.

* Some of the wheels and plastic hubs show signs of wear or cracking. I had a spare wheel somewhere...not sure if it's with those bits, or if I have it stored at home.

* Motors, wheels and timing-belts are from Oatley Electronics. Re-purposed from toy scooters, IIRC. Rated at 100W each?

* There's very little ground-clearance -- a problem outdoors, but not an issue a smooth concrete floor like SideTracksd or CCHS.

* Replacing the batteries as you suggested would improve the mass significantly.

* Logo says "SubKor", the name of a small business a few friends and I set-up for robotics R&D. We wrapped-up the business, but then a few years later, the others gave strong approval get the robot out of storage and donate it to CCHS. On that note, do we have a stencil or stickers with the CCHS logo? :)

HTH,

Damien

[Kevin Barker]

I think 13.5Kg is an excellent place to start. It's very accessible for people with different budgets which hopefully translates to more participants, sooner.

I suppose if there are people with spinner / wedger bots, they can compete in a separate 'sub class' for the time being?

[Kevin Barker]

Slightly off topic - How do you get access to the horribly dated robowars.org site?

I'm trying to get an account for Forum and Wiki access.

[Ajax Ozy]

Kevin,

on the robowars web sit. on the left side of the page.

Click on the icon "Chat Forum"

On the chat forum, top right corner. (in blue text)
there is a "Register" button.

Follow the instructions and fill out.

The Admin needs to authorize your registration before you get full access. But you can browse.
(not sure if the authorizing still setup that way or not)

If you have any issues with it. Email robowars site admin or let me know.
and i can get it sorted out for you.

Ajax

[Kevin Barker]

Ahhh. Found it! Thanks Ajax.

[Anton Todorov]

There is a battle bot in one of the suitcases in the back. I think it's the red one. I'm not sure if it belongs to anyone or how well/if it works. But it has a lot of dangerous looking metal on it.

[Geoff]

They found it and are planning to wage war with it:-)

[Tim Eastwood]

Saturday 11am at Sidetracked is confirmed :) Would be great to see some of you guys there!

[Jai]

Ok, I'm out the front. Who am I looking for?

jai

On 18/09/2015, at 14:43, Tim Eastwood <fybr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Saturday 11am at Sidetracked is confirmed :) Would be great to see some of you guys there!

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[damie...@gmail.com]

Cool.
I'm on the way. See you in 5 mins.

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[Tim Eastwood]

Was great meeting you guys, thanks for turning up! We had about 13 people all together which was a pretty fantastic show of interest. Here's a bit of a summary of the points made at the meet and what we'll do moving forward.

The immediate future:

Get bots up and running, drum up interest from hackers / builders in the community and get to a stage where we can organise some 'backyard' battles.

The 13.5kg weight class seemed the most popular and is the most likely candidate for any official battles. Interested builders should aim to construct bots close to this weight.

A good point was made with the two bots brought for show-n-tell - you don't need to spend big bickies or be a qualified engineer to build a bot. The most effective and most fun builds were made from scrap parts and whatever was available at the time. Adaptation is key, as is spending a few minutes learning to weld :)

A sportsman class where spinners and other high-kinetic-energy weapons aren't allowed or are handicapped seems like the way to go so new players aren't taking their bot home as a bag of parts

The more distant future (say, 6 months time):

Darren and Barry are the builder/owners respectively of the arena located at Sidetracked. Things are busy there and they will only consider setting up the arena if we can drum up enough interest for a decent number of competing bots and spectators. This is the reason we're beginning with some backyard brawls in order to gauge where things will go. Basically, if you want to see RoboWars take off here in Australia, now is the time to get started on your build.

A couple of guys from the Swinburne Tinkerer's Club were present and expressed interest in getting the club as a whole involved with the CCHS.

I got to meet Damien and drag him back to CCHS to have a play around with SubKor, the CCHS mascot. I've since written some software for an arduino to control it with an R/C trigger-style remote as that is what I have. An issue I often see with the tank-style bots is poor control and I think this has tackled the issue excellently - it is a breeze to drive. If someone wants to tell me how I should share the code for that I'll be happy to 'open-source' it.

Check it out! https://youtu.be/QfcEeDs6UBE

The next step for SubKor is to sort out a power source that isn't lead-acid, I'm thinking 6S LiPos. 

TL;DR: Build a robot and get involved! :)

[Kevin Barker]

Given the short notice, I was very happy to see how many people turned up!

Thanks for the heads-up Tim.

The only problem was I could not stay for long.

"Build a robot and get involved! :)"... Ok. I will. :)

[damie...@gmail.com]

Big thankyou to Tim for organising the gathering, and a great turn-out. 

Good mix of CCHS people, original BattleBots league, and some new faces from Swinburne.

Also nice to head into the hackerspace for the afternoon, and help get the robot going again.

Saturday morning's discussion was an eye-opener: 

* Motors and batteries have improved greatly lately in terms of size/mass vs torque or capacity. Gel-cells and scooter motors don't really cut it these days.

* Some people are into RobotWars for the spectacle of destruction and sparks flying (draws a crowd); others for the competition of robot-building and operator skill

* The former group have evolved / pared-down designs to little more than an armoured, motorised axe/hammer

* Sportsman class (I can't recall the weight division) looks good for latter group -- a "friendly" competition, more inviting to newcomers, experimenters, and those without an unlimited budget.

Cheers,

Damien

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Damie...@gmail.com

[Tim Eastwood]

Hi all,

There's a few guys coming out this Sunday 17th at 10:00am to meet and chat about building battlebots. Some of the regulars from robowars are coming along with bots of their own to offer some inspiration and ideas. It would be great to see a few new faces so if you're interested and keen to get into building bots of destruction or even just in robotics in general do please come along :)

See you there!

Tim

[Tim Eastwood]

Turnout was good on Sunday, we had a whole stack of bots show up thanks to the guys at RoboWars.org and got to have a good yarn with the crew. Even got to see Garry and Rob's bots Skeletor and Hydra have a tussle. Turns out Skeletor's drill is better at attacking concrete than polycarbonate... shh don't tell the committee... we'll put a rug over it Thanks to Vincent, Raj and Jeremiah from OCAU for coming along as well.

I picked up a stack of useful info for picking up cheap parts to build a bot as well - big thanks to those who shared that with me:

Good source of motors and stuff: [url]https://www.motiondynamics.com.au[/url]

They have this complete motor / wheel / belt unit (to suit electric scooter) which is great for driving a bot cheaply: $44 [URL="https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/100w-belt-drive-scooter-wheel-24v-1200rpm.html"]link[/URL]

Marto from Robowars found that some cheap ESCs can be flashed to work in brushed mode (great for powering the cheap motor setups for a beginner bot and is cheaper than brushed ESCs or other motor controllers):

The forum thread: http://www.robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1581&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

The ESC: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10331

You can also use an IBC to control your bot which is an all-in-one solution that provides an auxiliary channel for weapon control, 'flip' which changes the drive direction and steering for running the bot upside down, channel mixing etc etc all built in... but is a little more expensive at $319 (australian made though!)

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0-IBCv2.html

Rob showed it was easy to find materials to build a bot... all you need is a little creativity and a welder! The yellow frame of his bot 'Hydra' was built from a lawn chair, bonnet struts from a Valiant and the seat adjust lever from a commodore...

Garry's bot "Bender"

Planning destruction:

A full-body spinner (the red dome with blades):

Another full body spinner, without the body:

A couple of entertainment bots, Overdrive and Little Mac, graciously donated to the CCHS by Garry - thanks Garry!