Seeking advice - old DG/UX Intel based.
DGUX
We got an old DG/UX (Data General UNIX) machine (an AViiON box, Intel
based).
I'm trying to virtualize/emulate it, so that it would work as is on a
vm.
I've DD'ed over the raw disks as images and I can boot it up
(bootloader works) but
it doesn't load up the kernel/system due to it's Adaptec PCI SCSI
Controller and
the lack of support from the virtulization products side (which
support mainly
Buslogic and LSI).
From what I gathered, I got 2 choices here :
1. Write an Adaptec driver / firmware emulation and such for a VM
product.
2. Write a BusLogic/LSI driver for DG/UX.
The second options seems like a better one to me, and perhaps an
easier one.
According to the DG/UX docs, a System V Release 4 (SVR4) STREAMS
driver is the
easiest to port to DG/UX. From what I understand, a STREAMS driver is
for character
devices, ie. keyboard, mouse, net', and not block devices as HDDs,
CDROM etc. Is there a STREAMS driver for BusLogic / LSI Controllers?
Some tech:
Adaptec chip is AIC-7880
DG/UX also supports Qlogic - QLA1040-PI and the QLA1041-PI cards.
Most vm products support:
Buslogic BT-958, PCI ID 104B:1040 || BusLogic BT-946C (BA80C30)
LSI Logic - LSI53C1030 chip.
Any extra thought / advice would be very much appreciated.
If you need any extra info / logs / config files, let me know.
Thanks a lot,
Danny
P.s
Application updates/porting is not an options at the moment. All I
want to do is get some stabillity and redundancy on this old AViiON
boxes.
Scott Lurndal
>Hello all,
>
>We got an old DG/UX (Data General UNIX) machine (an AViiON box, Intel
>based).
>I'm trying to virtualize/emulate it, so that it would work as is on a
>vm.
>I've DD'ed over the raw disks as images and I can boot it up
>(bootloader works) but
>
>it doesn't load up the kernel/system due to it's Adaptec PCI SCSI
>Controller and
>
>the lack of support from the virtulization products side (which
>support mainly
>
>Buslogic and LSI).
>
>From what I gathered, I got 2 choices here :
>
>1. Write an Adaptec driver / firmware emulation and such for a VM
>product.
>2. Write a BusLogic/LSI driver for DG/UX.
Depending on _what_ virtualization product you are using:
3. Port the XEN or KVM paravirt or virtio storage and network drivers to DG/UX.
I believe that VMware may also support a paravirt block driver, but dunno opensource
status.
All cases would be a substantial amount of work since the DG/UX kernel is much
different from Linux, BSD or VMware. Unixware (which like DG/UX is based on SVR4,
if I recall correctly) has a driver for the aic7xxx chips; this may be the easiest
to port, but it isn't open source.
scott
DGUX
>
> - Show quoted text -
You're correct, that is a 3rd options. Although I think that option
would be difficult to implement 'cause I cannot really mess arount too
much with the DG's kernel or reboot it (affraid it won't boot up
again).
Not having the source code is indeed another bump in the road. I
think that all things considered, Adapted support in VMware/Vbox/Qemu/
Xen or such will be the best option, for many other Adaptec users, not
just in DG/UX.
And also will not require any DG/UX specific kernel knowledge.
Been trying to locate the source code for that Adaptec driver in my DG
system, nothing. It isn't/wasn't open source.
What else can I do ?
I guess I can try and nag vm product developers to try and patch in
Adaptec aic7xxxx suport, even linux drivers will do. As long as the
chip is the same, the DG system will recognize it.
Aragorn
identifying as Scott Lurndal wrote...
> DGUX <dgu...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> We got an old DG/UX (Data General UNIX) machine (an AViiON box, Intel
>> based). I'm trying to virtualize/emulate it, so that it would work as
>> is on a vm. I've DD'ed over the raw disks as images and I can boot it
>> up (bootloader works) but it doesn't load up the kernel/system due to
>> it's Adaptec PCI SCSI Controller and the lack of support from the
>> virtulization products side (which support mainly Buslogic and LSI).
>>
>> From what I gathered, I got 2 choices here :
>>
>> 1. Write an Adaptec driver / firmware emulation and such for a VM
>> product.
>> 2. Write a BusLogic/LSI driver for DG/UX.
>
> Depending on _what_ virtualization product you are using:
>
> 3. Port the XEN or KVM paravirt or virtio storage and network drivers
> to DG/UX.
In the event of Xen, the OP can also run the DG/UX system as a fully
virtualized guest - as opposed to a paravirtual guest - in which case
the guest doesn't need to know about the underlying hardware being
SCSI, as long as said guest itself supports a generic PIIX3 IDE
controller. (Xen 4.0 and later /may/ actually even support SCSI
emulation to hardware-virtualized guests, but I'm not sure on that.)
> I believe that VMware may also support a paravirt block driver, but
> dunno opensource status.
Well, with regard to paravirtualization, a block driver has to come as a
pair of two different drivers, one being the back-end driver in the
host - or in the event of Xen, the privileged guest - and one being a
front-end driver to be used in the unprivileged, paravirtualized guest.
VMWare may itself have such a back-end driver, but then it still remains
to be seen whether there is a front-end driver for DG/UX. The OP might
then want to write one of their own, but VMWare also supports full
virtualization, so perhaps that would be an easier approach.
The caveat would of course be that the hardware must have virtualization
extensions and that they are enabled. This certainly applies to Xen -
without it, Xen only offers paravirtualization - but I'm not sure on
VMWare. It is possible that VMWare supports full virtualization via
emulation, but that would be rather slow.
> All cases would be a substantial amount of work since the DG/UX kernel
> is much different from Linux, BSD or VMware. Unixware (which like
> DG/UX is based on SVR4, if I recall correctly) has a driver for the
> aic7xxx chips; this may be the easiest to port, but it isn't open
> source.
(Open)Solaris is also based upon SVR4, and I believe it has a driver for
said Adaptec chips as well. OpenSolaris is licensed under the CDDL, so
if it has such a driver, then the OP might study it in order to write
one for DG/UX.
(Disclaimer: I'm not well-versed enough on the CDDL to know whether it
allows that the driver simply be ported to a proprietary operating
system or not. What I do know is that the GPL explicitly forbids that
sort of thing.)
--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
DGUX
>
> - Show quoted text -
Full virt' would be great, but there is a caveat - DG/UX does not
support IDE. Although it displays some BIOS options and such, the docs
say : "Data General has not tested or qualified the use of IDE
devices in AViiON AV 2100 systems". I got a full list of supported
hardware, straight from the DG system.
Also, I don't need to port aic7xxx driver to DG. DG system already
supports Adaptec, it only support Adaptec. I need either for the DG
system to support a VM product controller, ie, buslogic/lsi or virtio
or for a VM product to support Adaptec.
DGUX
>
> - Show quoted text -
===================
Don't know how many will see that, as it is an addition to an "old"
msg I posted.
Could've found a solution to my issue, regarding IDE.
Got a config list off the DGUX box with all supported hardware, no IDE
mentioned.
Also, docs say "Data General has not tested or qualified the use of
IDE devices in AViiON AV 2100 systems" many times.
BUT (and perhaps a big "but"), docs also mention _many_ IDE options
including "IDE Interface - Disabled/Auto" , "OnBoard IDE Controller -
enabled" and also in the docs - The AV 2100 board set consists of •
a system board with six PCI expansion slots, three ISA expansion
slots, and several embedded controller devices (PCI video, SCSI,
Network, and IDE).
and "..A SCSI-III AIC-7880 controller for connecting up to seven 8-bit
narrow SCSI devices. You can also connect a mixture of fifteen 8-bit
narrow and 16-bit wide SCSI devices to the controller—maximum of
seven 8-bit narrow SCSI devices. PCI-enhanced Integrated Drive
Electronics (IDE) hard disk interface that supports two hard disk
drives"
Also " Since the lower bay contains a SCSI CD-ROM drive, only one
other SCSI device can be installed. You can install an IDE device in
the remaining bay. "
And much more. The question is, if I have an exact image of the
primary disk and I did try to load it via an IDE drive (in Qemu/
VirtualBox etc), didn't work out. Like last time, bootloader booted up
and then hang after trying to load the kernel.
Is there something I can try and do as a different config in my image
file?
The thing is I don't think IDE is supported at all due to this log I
have of supported hw.
I want to send you, anyone, those files, hw log and whatever I got.
If you know the DG system and might be able to help, please email me
at dgu...@gmail.com
Thanks a million.
Rick Jones
Earth, but you don't, by any chance, have copies of the install media
for the version of DG/UX you are trying to get running in the virtual
machine? If you did, and they were on a media compatible with your
main host (eg CD I guess rather than say floppy) you might do a
"fresh" install into the virtual machine and then copy-over the apps
and such from your physical system.
rick jones
--
The computing industry isn't as much a game of "Follow The Leader" as
it is one of "Ring Around the Rosy" or perhaps "Duck Duck Goose."
- Rick Jones
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
DGUX
Thanks Rick,
Actually I do have an installation media, which is a combination of a
bootstrap floppy and an installation CD. Got them both.
Already tried to install on a fresh physical x86 server, it boots up
but seeks that same Adaptec controller / specific BUS ID number and
what not.Like I said, DG was clever like that.
Of course I also tried that using a VM, no go.
Besides, even if I do get a system running, I think it won't get me
far, due to the tens of patches that this machine will require to get
it as closer as possible to my production machine. That is why I
thought a full disk image would be the best solution.
Thanks,
D
kme...@iupat.org
We have a small project and 2 DG/UX boxes that are still running that I would like to virtualize and run under vmware if possible.
Thanks,
Kurt
grla...@gmail.com
hi ... do you still have he kit ?
can we get hold of it to try to get around the boot and SCSI issues ?
We are keen to crack this problem once and for all ?
regards
Geoff