more help with friend's mac, v10.4.11

[Micky]

I appreciate the help I got here with my earlier questions.

I'm using OS v10.4.11 That's called Tiger, right?

(I've omitted the hardware group this time, unless someone thinks it's
needed)

Summary of what has happened with his Verizon account to be published
later.

A) Rather than email all his files as attachments, it occurred to me
to
1) put them in the cloud somewhere and let his friend download them
2) load them on a flashdrive and take it to him.

I'm going with 2.

Using Finder, he has files with the following extensions,
.doc previewed as a Microsoft Word document
.pdf Adobe PDF document
.jpg JPEG image
.txt Microsoft Word text document
.gif Graphics Interchange Format Image
.zip Zip archive
.xls Microsoft Excel workbook
.pages Adobe Reader Document
.pdf-1.part Document
no extension? RTF with atachments
Web archive (PAYSYS)

99% of these files are intended for one man. It's easier for me,
since I still have trouble manipulating the Mac, to copy them all to
windows and then exclude the few that shouldn't go to him.

Will all these formats transfer properly to Windows via a FAT32
flashdrive?

How do I do that? Well I found how to zip them into one file, and I
created an email addressed to me, with the zip file attached, and I
created a new entry for accounts, with my own smtp server and an
invalid pop server, and I sent a test email using the new account. It
went fine, but when I tried to send it with the attached zip file,
after a long time it wanted me to use a different account.

Questions:
a) I clicked on Send, and that window closed
b) I looked in the drafts mailbox for the new account or maybe the
Sent mailbox, and the email was there, but it had no Subject, both in
the list of emails in that mailbox and in the email itself when I
reopened it, even though I had entered one and it was still there the
next time I opened the unsent email??? How do I put in a subject? Do
I need a subject to send?

Was I supposed to click on Save before I clicked on Send? I can't
even find an option called Save in the drop down menu.

c) I was watching the activity monitor and one of the boxes said
Removing Attachments. Huh? It will do that?

d) Is there a limit on how long an attachment can be? Oh, yeah.
Verizon says 20MB. Oops.

So instead of making mulitiple zip files, I decided to copy them all
to a flashdrive plugged into the Apple. I plugged one in and Finder
showed it near the upper left corner, but there was an up-pointing
arrow and I clicked on that, and the drive disappeared, and I can't
get it back, even by forcing Finder to close and reopen. I don't
want to restart the computer because I've had trouble getting it
started.

(Clicking on Network, I think, made it show the memory card in my
wireless printer, but that's on the LAN. Without restarting, I can't
find the flashdrive that is plugged into the Mac. )

Okay I restarted the computer and it's back, but isn't there a way to
get the icon back without restarting? ---

When the USB icon was still there, I had highlighted a couple files
and dragged them to the icon, but nothing happened. And I think I
tried again after restarting. I had to open a second Finder window,
and drag from there to the other window, to the USB drive icon. Is
that the way one has to do it, with a second window?

f) Why has the color wheel been spinning so much lately, when it
didn't spin in previous sessions and even though there is, afaik,
nothing happening right now, no emailing, downloading, web browsing,
or indexing or anything.
B) There aren't many emails that I think his brother will be
interested in, but I will go through all of them and pick out the ones
I think will matter to him. My friend only had one mailbox. Is it
hard to create a mailbox and transfer each email as I find them to the
other box, and then forward all of them in one shot to my friend's
brother? Using Mac Mail.

C) Where are the Safari website passwords save in OS v10.4. I
followed a webpage and went to Safari / Preferences but the tabs were
different from the picture. There was no password tabs and the
Autofill tab only provided for deleting entries.

I have the impression I need some master password to open the Keychain
(to open Safari passwords), but I don't know it. He didn't seem to
enter a password when he started the computer, although maybe he never
started it when I was around, only woke it from sleep. I tried
entering nothing, but that didn't work.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[nospam]

In article <hlp5hbla1r0sr6s3m...@4ax.com>, Micky

<NONONObobb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Using Finder, he has files with the following extensions,
> .doc previewed as a Microsoft Word document
> .pdf Adobe PDF document
> .jpg JPEG image
> .txt Microsoft Word text document
> .gif Graphics Interchange Format Image
> .zip Zip archive
> .xls Microsoft Excel workbook
> .pages Adobe Reader Document
> .pdf-1.part Document
> no extension? RTF with atachments
> Web archive (PAYSYS)
>
> 99% of these files are intended for one man. It's easier for me,
> since I still have trouble manipulating the Mac, to copy them all to
> windows and then exclude the few that shouldn't go to him.
>
> Will all these formats transfer properly to Windows via a FAT32
> flashdrive?

yes

> How do I do that?

plug i flash drive, drag files to flash drive, eject flash drive,
unplug flash drive. exactly the same as with any other system.

[Patty Winter]

In article <hlp5hbla1r0sr6s3m...@4ax.com>,
Micky <NONONObobb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>A) Rather than email all his files as attachments, it occurred to me
>to
> 1) put them in the cloud somewhere and let his friend download them
> 2) load them on a flashdrive and take it to him.
>
>I'm going with 2.

Why are you emailing them at all? Just put a Windows-formatted flash
drive in a USB port on the Mac, copy the files to the flash drive,
eject the flash drive, and give it to the person who needs it. If that
person isn't in the same town as the Mac, you can mail the drive to him.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2016-04-17, Michael Vilain <mev9...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <5713b3a5$0$45015$742e...@news.sonic.net>,

> Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
> formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write
> to the NTFS drive.

As you said, most flash sticks come pre-formatted with FAT.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Micky]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:45:57 -0700, Michael Vilain

<mev9...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <5713b3a5$0$45015$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>

>Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
>formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write

>to the NTFS drive. That feature is disabled in vanilla MacOS.

I said that I was using FAT32, which Mac calls FAT. The drive came
that way, but I knew I needed to use that.

The files are at the PC now, but some .doc files won't display and
others will. Later, I'll see how those in the first category display
on the Mac.

Also I haven't copied any of the files from the Desktop yet, because I
couldn't get this first group of files, from Documents, to go in the
folder I'd made for them, and I want to be able to distinguish
Document files from Desktop files. Almost all of the first got to
his friend, but I don't think that's true of the second.

>I don't know if Google Drive or Dropbox run on 10.4 or not, but if he
>has static web space, he could use a ftp client to copy the files up to
>his web server for the guy to download.

I don't have any webspace. I know there is free webspace, but a
flashdrive seems as easy as that. And it will allow me to review the
files and directories on my PC, where things go faster.

Thanks.

[Lewis]

In message <mev94303y-C51B7...@news.individual.net>

Michael Vilain <mev9...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <5713b3a5$0$45015$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
> formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write
> to the NTFS drive. That feature is disabled in vanilla MacOS.

I have never seen a USB flash drive formatted NTFS.

--
Thanks to the human heart by which we live,
Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,
To me the meanest flower that blows can give
Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears

[nospam]

In article <slrnnh800m....@amelia.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> > Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
> > formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write
> > to the NTFS drive. That feature is disabled in vanilla MacOS.
>
> I have never seen a USB flash drive formatted NTFS.

some now ship that way.

[Your Name]

In article <cok7hb1u51ma1lu91...@4ax.com>, Micky

<NONONObobb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:45:57 -0700, Michael Vilain
> <mev9...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >In article <5713b3a5$0$45015$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> > Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> >> In article <hlp5hbla1r0sr6s3m...@4ax.com>,
> >> Micky <NONONObobb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >A) Rather than email all his files as attachments, it occurred to me
> >> >to
> >> > 1) put them in the cloud somewhere and let his friend download them
> >> > 2) load them on a flashdrive and take it to him.
> >> >
> >> >I'm going with 2.
> >>
> >> Why are you emailing them at all? Just put a Windows-formatted flash
> >> drive in a USB port on the Mac, copy the files to the flash drive,
> >> eject the flash drive, and give it to the person who needs it. If that
> >> person isn't in the same town as the Mac, you can mail the drive to him.
> >
> >Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
> >formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write
> >to the NTFS drive. That feature is disabled in vanilla MacOS.
>
> I said that I was using FAT32, which Mac calls FAT. The drive came
> that way, but I knew I needed to use that.
>
> The files are at the PC now, but some .doc files won't display and
> others will. Later, I'll see how those in the first category display
> on the Mac.

When looking at Mac files on a Windoze PC, you will usually see a load
extra files that are invisible on a Mac. The filenames usually start
with either a "." or a "_". These invisible files are not able to be
opened nor need to be opened under Windoze - they simply contain Mac
information such as icons. Just ignore or delete them (the Mac will
recreate what it needs if the files are transferred back to a Mac).

> Also I haven't copied any of the files from the Desktop yet, because I
> couldn't get this first group of files, from Documents, to go in the
> folder I'd made for them, and I want to be able to distinguish
> Document files from Desktop files. Almost all of the first got to
> his friend, but I don't think that's true of the second.

Easiest to simply drag the icon of the Documents folder onto the Flash
drive (assuming the Flash drive has enough capacity to fit all the
documents).

You can do the same for the Desktop files, but you have to go into the
Mac's hard drive, then the Users folder, and then the particular user's
folder to find their Desktop folder.

[Lewis]

In message <170420161733131848%nos...@nospam.invalid>

Event eh 128GB thumb drives I have came Fat32, so I had to reformat them
to ExFAT.

--
Rule 1: To every rule there is an exception.

[Ant]

Can old Mac OS X versions, like 10.4.11, handle exFAT? I know Windows XP
SP3 needed an addon to support that.
--
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Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see
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/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
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( ) Chop ANT from its address if e-mailing privately.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[David Empson]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 4/17/2016 4:34 PM, Lewis wrote:
> > In message <170420161733131848%nos...@nospam.invalid>
> > nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> In article <slrnnh800m....@amelia.local>, Lewis
> >> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >
> >>>> Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
> >>>> formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write
> >>>> to the NTFS drive. That feature is disabled in vanilla MacOS.
> >>>
> >>> I have never seen a USB flash drive formatted NTFS.
> >
> >> some now ship that way.
> >
> > Event eh 128GB thumb drives I have came Fat32, so I had to reformat them
> > to ExFAT.
>
> Can old Mac OS X versions, like 10.4.11, handle exFAT? I know Windows XP
> SP3 needed an addon to support that.

ExFAT support was added in Mac OS X 10.6.5.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[JF Mezei]

On 2016-04-17 20:15, Ant wrote:

> Can old Mac OS X versions, like 10.4.11, handle exFAT? I know Windows XP
> SP3 needed an addon to support that.

from line command:

diskutil listFileSystems
(the GUI diskutil supports a subset of the line command ones.


Yosemite example:

diskutil listFileSystems
Formattable file systems

These file system personalities can be used for erasing and partitioning.
When specifying a personality as a parameter to a verb, case is not
considered.
Certain common aliases (also case-insensitive) are listed below as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PERSONALITY USER VISIBLE NAME

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ExFAT ExFAT

Free Space Free Space

(or) free
MS-DOS MS-DOS (FAT)

MS-DOS FAT12 MS-DOS (FAT12)

MS-DOS FAT16 MS-DOS (FAT16)

MS-DOS FAT32 MS-DOS (FAT32)

(or) fat32
HFS+ Mac OS Extended

Case-sensitive HFS+ Mac OS Extended (Case-sensitive)

(or) hfsx
Case-sensitive Journaled HFS+ Mac OS Extended (Case-sensitive,
Journaled)
(or) jhfsx
Journaled HFS+ Mac OS Extended (Journaled)

(or) jhfs+


Note: diskutil listFileSystems may notc ontain all of them.
Authoritative list is in:

/System/Library/Filesystems/<fs>.fs/Contents/Info.plist

(as per the "FORMAT" section of man diskutil)

[Davoud]

Patty Winter:

> Why are you emailing them at all? Just put a Windows-formatted flash
> drive in a USB port on the Mac, copy the files to the flash drive,
> eject the flash drive, and give it to the person who needs it. If that
> person isn't in the same town as the Mac, you can mail the drive to him.

That's pretty close to the way we did it in the 50's--magnetic tape,
perforated tape, or punch cards by courier. Now it's a new century and
we place our large files into a public folder in Dropbox and e-mail the
retrieval link to the intended recipient, who downloads the file(s) at
her/his convenience.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Patty Winter]

In article <mev94303y-C51B7...@news.individual.net>,

Michael Vilain <mev9...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <5713b3a5$0$45015$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>

>> Why are you emailing them at all? Just put a Windows-formatted flash
>> drive in a USB port on the Mac, copy the files to the flash drive,
>> eject the flash drive, and give it to the person who needs it.
>

>Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
>formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write
>to the NTFS drive. That feature is disabled in vanilla MacOS.

Sorry, how is that different from the "Windows-formatted flash drive"
that I mentioned?


Patty

[Patty Winter]

In article <cok7hb1u51ma1lu91...@4ax.com>,
Micky <NONONObobb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>The files are at the PC now, but some .doc files won't display and
>others will. Later, I'll see how those in the first category display
>on the Mac.

Any chance that some of them are .docx files and the PC doesn't have
a new enough version of Word to read them?


Patty

[Jim Gibson]

In article <hlp5hbla1r0sr6s3m...@4ax.com>, Micky
<NONONObobb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Using Finder, he has files with the following extensions,
> .doc previewed as a Microsoft Word document
> .pdf Adobe PDF document
> .jpg JPEG image
> .txt Microsoft Word text document
> .gif Graphics Interchange Format Image
> .zip Zip archive
> .xls Microsoft Excel workbook
> .pages Adobe Reader Document

Documents ending with ".pages" are generated by Apple's Pages
application. Those cannot be read on a Windows PC. If you have Pages on
that Mac, you should open those documents and re-save them in some
Windows-compatible format (.doc, .rtf, etc.)

> How do I do that? Well I found how to zip them into one file, and I
> created an email addressed to me, with the zip file attached, and I
> created a new entry for accounts, with my own smtp server and an
> invalid pop server, and I sent a test email using the new account. It
> went fine, but when I tried to send it with the attached zip file,
> after a long time it wanted me to use a different account.
>
> Questions:
> a) I clicked on Send, and that window closed
> b) I looked in the drafts mailbox for the new account or maybe the
> Sent mailbox, and the email was there, but it had no Subject, both in
> the list of emails in that mailbox and in the email itself when I
> reopened it, even though I had entered one and it was still there the
> next time I opened the unsent email??? How do I put in a subject?

You type the subject in the Subject box.

> Do
> I need a subject to send?

No, but your mail software may prompt you to enter one.

>
> Was I supposed to click on Save before I clicked on Send? I can't
> even find an option called Save in the drop down menu.

No, Save means save the email without sending it. Save is found under
the File menu (if you are using Apple Mail).

> So instead of making mulitiple zip files, I decided to copy them all
> to a flashdrive plugged into the Apple. I plugged one in and Finder
> showed it near the upper left corner, but there was an up-pointing
> arrow and I clicked on that, and the drive disappeared, and I can't
> get it back, even by forcing Finder to close and reopen. I don't
> want to restart the computer because I've had trouble getting it
> started.

That "up-pointing arrow" is an eject icon. Clicking on that dismounts
the drive. To get the drive mounted again, remove the flashdrive
physically from the socket and plug it back in.

>
> (Clicking on Network, I think, made it show the memory card in my
> wireless printer, but that's on the LAN. Without restarting, I can't
> find the flashdrive that is plugged into the Mac. )
>
> Okay I restarted the computer and it's back, but isn't there a way to
> get the icon back without restarting? ---

Yes, see above.

>
> When the USB icon was still there, I had highlighted a couple files
> and dragged them to the icon, but nothing happened. And I think I
> tried again after restarting. I had to open a second Finder window,
> and drag from there to the other window, to the USB drive icon. Is
> that the way one has to do it, with a second window?

No, you can drag files to the drive icon. Double-click on the drive to
open up a Finder window showing you what is on the drive. You should
see the files you have dragged onto the drive.

--
Jim Gibson

[Lewis]

In message <4NOdnWrWfJaZuonK...@earthlink.com>

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 4/17/2016 4:34 PM, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <170420161733131848%nos...@nospam.invalid>
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> In article <slrnnh800m....@amelia.local>, Lewis
>>> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Unless he's installed a 3rd-party driver or the USB drive came already
>>>>> formatted for Windows (MSDOS or EXFAT) format, he won't be able to write
>>>>> to the NTFS drive. That feature is disabled in vanilla MacOS.
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen a USB flash drive formatted NTFS.
>>
>>> some now ship that way.
>>
>> Event eh 128GB thumb drives I have came Fat32, so I had to reformat them
>> to ExFAT.

> Can old Mac OS X versions, like 10.4.11, handle exFAT?

I would be very surprised if 10.4.x could deal with exFAT.

--
I HAVE NEITHER BEEN THERE NOR DONE THAT Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF17

[Lewis]

In message <mev94303y-F731E...@news.individual.net>
Michael Vilain <mev9...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ExFAT32 (e.g. FAT on 10.4) has a 2GB size limit. NTFS doesn't have this
> restriction but MacOS can't write to that filesystem without a 3rd party
> driver. I had this issue with Linux ISO files which were mostly > 2GB
> so I couldn't use ExFAT formatted USB sticks.

FAT32 has a 4GB filesize limit. exFAT has a file-size limit in the
Petabyte range.

There is no exFAT32.

> It just occurred to me that Google Drive will work from the Web site on
> 10.4.

Are you sure?

--
Of course, there were various groups seeking his overthrow, and this was
right and proper and the sign of a vigorous and healthy society. No-one
could call him unreasonable about the matter. Why, hadn't he founded
most of them himself? And what was so beautiful was the way they spent
nearly all their time bickering with one another. Human nature, the
Patrician always said, was a marvelous thing. Once you understood where
its levers were. --Guards! Guards!

[Paul Magnussen]

Jim Gibson wrote:

> Documents ending with ".pages" are generated by Apple's Pages

> application. Those cannot be read on a Windows PC.on. Double-click on the drive to

> open up a Finder window showing you what is on the drive. You should
> see the files you have dragged onto the drive.

I believe 10.4.11 is too old to run Pages, so presumably there won't be
any such files. I believe the same is true of .docx files: at least,
Office X needs a converter to read them, so I would guess it can't
produce them.

Paul Magnussen

[David Empson]

Paul Magnussen <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Jim Gibson wrote:
>
> > Documents ending with ".pages" are generated by Apple's Pages
> > application. Those cannot be read on a Windows PC.on. Double-click on
> > the drive to open up a Finder window showing you what is on the drive.
> > You should see the files you have dragged onto the drive.
>
> I believe 10.4.11 is too old to run Pages

Certainly not. iWork '09 (including Pages '09) was introduced in January
2009 and it ran on Mac OS X 10.4.11.

Later minor updates of iWork '09 dropped support for Tiger.

Then there the earlier versions. Pages '09 was version 4 of the
application.

iWork '08 includes Pages 3.x, iWork '06 included Pages 2.x, and iWork
'05 included Pages 1.x. All of those work on Tiger.

> so presumably there won't be any such files.

There could be.

> I believe the same is true of .docx files: at least, Office X needs a
> converter to read them, so I would guess it can't produce them.

You seem to be ignoring Office 2008, which ran on Tiger and supported
.docx and similar files.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Paul Magnussen]

David Empson wrote:

> Paul Magnussen <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> I believe 10.4.11 is too old to run Pages
>
> Certainly not. iWork '09 (including Pages '09) was introduced in January
> 2009 and it ran on Mac OS X 10.4.11.

>> I believe the same is true of .docx files: at least, Office X needs a
>> converter to read them, so I would guess it can't produce them.
>
> You seem to be ignoring Office 2008, which ran on Tiger and supported
> .docx and similar files.

Oops. I guess I'm 0 for 2.

Paul Magnussen

[Paul Magnussen]

I've found something that may be of interest:

I still have a folder of letters done on a G3 in Word 4. The file-names
consist of the addressee plus the date in yyyy/mm/dd format, so that
they sort chronologically. They don't have .doc on the end, because of
course before OS X the Creator/Type headers were enough.

I also have various other Word 4 docs without dates.

Word 2011 will open a Word 4 doc without a date from the File menu;
however, for a file with a date it complains about invalid characters,
even though slashes are perfectly valid in the Mac file system.

However, Word 2016 will apparently NOT open Word 4 docs in any
circumstances: it just tells you tersely to open them in an earlier
version of Word.

Moral: if you need those old Word docs, better update them now, while
you still can.

P.S. With what version did OS X stop checking the Creator/Type headers
when you double-clicked a doc that didn't have a suffix?

Paul Magnussen

[Paul Magnussen]

I've found something that may be of interest:

I still have a folder of letters done on a G3 in Word 4. The file-names
consist of the addressee plus the date in yyyy/mm/dd format, so that
they sort chronologically. They don't have .doc on the end, because of
course before OS X the Creator/Type headers were enough.

I also have various other Word 4 docs without dates.

Word 2011 will open a Word 4 doc without a date from the File menu;
however, for a file with a date it complains about invalid characters,
even though slashes are perfectly valid in the Mac file system.

But Word 2016 will apparently NOT open Word 4 docs in any circumstances:

[David Empson]

If memory serves, Creator codes were ignored (for selecting an
application to launch) as of OS X 10.6, but Type codes were still
supported at that point. I haven't checked whether they still work.

Microsoft Office 2011 also stopped opening old document formats via
double-click, requiring them to be opened from the File menu.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Your Name]

In article <_8adnd7L_stpfovK...@earthlink.com>, Paul

Magnussen <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I've found something that may be of interest:
>
> I still have a folder of letters done on a G3 in Word 4. The file-names
> consist of the addressee plus the date in yyyy/mm/dd format, so that
> they sort chronologically. They don't have .doc on the end, because of
> course before OS X the Creator/Type headers were enough.
>
> I also have various other Word 4 docs without dates.
>
> Word 2011 will open a Word 4 doc without a date from the File menu;
> however, for a file with a date it complains about invalid characters,
> even though slashes are perfectly valid in the Mac file system.

Slashes are sort of valid. They can be used but can cause issues (when
using them in Terminal commands, for example, you have to "escape" the
slash, otherwise Unix uses it as a sub-directory divider).

> However, Word 2016 will apparently NOT open Word 4 docs in any
> circumstances: it just tells you tersely to open them in an earlier
> version of Word.
>
> Moral: if you need those old Word docs, better update them now, while
> you still can.
>
> P.S. With what version did OS X stop checking the Creator/Type headers
> when you double-clicked a doc that didn't have a suffix?
>
> Paul Magnussen

Pages or even TextEdit might open those old Word documents, although
you may lose some bits if they're fancy-a-fied documents.

[Christian]

David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Microsoft Office 2011 also stopped opening old document formats via
> double-click, requiring them to be opened from the File menu.

It is not necessary to open them via the File menu. You can drag a
document's icon (which you believe can be opened by an application) over
the icon of that application (in a Finder window or in the dock), and it
will open.

You can even select more than one documents at the same time and drag
them, then all will open.

This not only works for Word, but for all file formats / applications.

Christian
--
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

[android]

In article <1mlzsp9.1b2yotz9cam7iN%christi...@ghanart.org>,

christi...@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

> David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> > Microsoft Office 2011 also stopped opening old document formats via
> > double-click, requiring them to be opened from the File menu.
>
> It is not necessary to open them via the File menu. You can drag a
> document's icon (which you believe can be opened by an application) over
> the icon of that application (in a Finder window or in the dock), and it
> will open.
>
> You can even select more than one documents at the same time and drag
> them, then all will open.
>
> This not only works for Word, but for all file formats / applications.
>
> Christian

Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program. It just
wouldn't open on a double click otherwise! Going through the different
folders to find the app to be used for that dragging and dropping could
be a PITA...
--
teleportation kills

[Christian]

android <he...@there.was> wrote:

> In article <1mlzsp9.1b2yotz9cam7iN%christi...@ghanart.org>,
> christi...@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:
>
> > David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> >
> > > Microsoft Office 2011 also stopped opening old document formats via
> > > double-click, requiring them to be opened from the File menu.
> >
> > It is not necessary to open them via the File menu. You can drag a
> > document's icon (which you believe can be opened by an application) over
> > the icon of that application (in a Finder window or in the dock), and it
> > will open.
> >
> > You can even select more than one documents at the same time and drag
> > them, then all will open.
> >
> > This not only works for Word, but for all file formats / applications.
> >
> > Christian
>
> Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program.

Not necessarily. Open form the File Menu always worked, and dragging
over the application icon also.

And I do not know many who knew how to change type/creator
information...

> Going through the different
> folders to find the app to be used for that dragging and dropping could
> be a PITA...

You can use the "get Info" dialog to find out which produced the file.
Then you need to know which application from today can open it. All
present Word versions can read files from years back, if it was a Word
file.

[android]

In article <1mm04ee.1jel54kqlwzb0N%christi...@ghanart.org>,

christi...@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

> android <he...@there.was> wrote:
>
> > In article <1mlzsp9.1b2yotz9cam7iN%christi...@ghanart.org>,
> > christi...@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:
> >
> > > David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Microsoft Office 2011 also stopped opening old document formats via
> > > > double-click, requiring them to be opened from the File menu.
> > >
> > > It is not necessary to open them via the File menu. You can drag a
> > > document's icon (which you believe can be opened by an application) over
> > > the icon of that application (in a Finder window or in the dock), and it
> > > will open.
> > >
> > > You can even select more than one documents at the same time and drag
> > > them, then all will open.
> > >
> > > This not only works for Word, but for all file formats / applications.
> > >
> > > Christian
> >
> > Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> > a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program.
>
> Not necessarily. Open form the File Menu always worked, and dragging
> over the application icon also.
>
> And I do not know many who knew how to change type/creator
> information...

That's the point. It was supposed to be click and play and often enough
it wasn't.

>
> > Going through the different
> > folders to find the app to be used for that dragging and dropping could
> > be a PITA...
>
> You can use the "get Info" dialog to find out which produced the file.
> Then you need to know which application from today can open it. All
> present Word versions can read files from years back, if it was a Word
> file.

It was still a PITA on System 9 and earlier, and you should not have to
use the info dialog to open a file assuming that you have compatible
software on the device.

Premium software packages like MS Office should support old files,
especially created by itself as good as offerings like Open Office.
--
teleportation kills

[nospam]

In article <here-BF13F5.0...@news.individual.net>, android

<he...@there.was> wrote:

>
> Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program.

no you didn't.

[Paul Magnussen]

Your Name wrote:

> Slashes are sort of valid. They can be used but can cause issues (when
> using them in Terminal commands, for example, you have to "escape" the
> slash, otherwise Unix uses it as a sub-directory divider).

None the less, Word X, for instance, (from 2006), doesn't care: it's
only later versions that object. Just an oversight left over from the
PC code?

Paul Magnussen

[nospam]

In article <MZqdnRDuzaNpW4rK...@earthlink.com>, Paul

word x is from 2001 and is not a port.

the reason it doesn't care is because it's old enough that it uses
classic mac file apis which use : for path delimiters while newer
versions of word use os x file system apis which use / for path
delimiters.

[Paul Magnussen]

nospam wrote:

> word x is from 2001 and is not a port.

Right, that's what the copyright date says. I was going by Date
created, which is of course irrelevant.

My mistake.

Paul Magnussen

[Lewis]

In message <_8adnd7L_stpfovK...@earthlink.com>

Paul Magnussen <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I've found something that may be of interest:

> I still have a folder of letters done on a G3 in Word 4. The file-names
> consist of the addressee plus the date in yyyy/mm/dd format, so that
> they sort chronologically. They don't have .doc on the end, because of
> course before OS X the Creator/Type headers were enough.

Word 4 dates from 1989, when System 6 was current.

> I also have various other Word 4 docs without dates.

> Word 2011 will open a Word 4 doc without a date from the File menu;
> however, for a file with a date it complains about invalid characters,
> even though slashes are perfectly valid in the Mac file system.

Microsoft is stupid. Change the / to -

I thought that Word 2011 only opened Word 5 and later documents.


--
I always take life with a grain of salt, plus a slice of lime and a
shot of tequila.

[Lewis]

In message <here-BF13F5.0...@news.individual.net> android <he...@there.was> wrote:
> Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program. It just
> wouldn't open on a double click otherwise! Going through the different
> folders to find the app to be used for that dragging and dropping could
> be a PITA...

1) There is no such thing as System 9.

2) There was never a requirement to use a third party app to change
which app opened a file.


--
'What ho, b'zugda-hiara.' (Footnote: A killing insult in Dwarfish. It
means 'Lawn ornament'.) --Wyrd Sisters

[Paul Magnussen]

Lewis wrote:

> I thought that Word 2011 only opened Word 5 and later documents.

I'm pretty certain 4 & 5 have the same format: at least, they can both
open each other's documents (I have both on my old G3).

(I stuck with Word 4 for a long time, because I'd bought a set of 6
foreign language dictionaries for cheap to go with it, and they didn't
work with Word 5 and above.)

Paul Magnussen

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <_8adnd7L_stpfovK...@earthlink.com>, Paul

Magnussen <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> However, Word 2016 will apparently NOT open Word 4 docs in any
> circumstances: it just tells you tersely to open them in an earlier
> version of Word.
>
> Moral: if you need those old Word docs, better update them now, while
> you still can.

If you're only interested in the information that the document
contains, have you tried dragging it into a text editor? There will be
a boatload of extraneous characters to clean up, but the text should
still be there.
Well...it used to be like that. I haven't tried in fifteen years, but
Word 4 documents should be in the window of time that worked for me.
Again, no format, and lots of cleanup.

leo

[android]

In article <200420161137170334%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

open from the menu or drag 'n drop doesn't count...
--
teleportation kills

[android]

In article <slrnnhfou9....@amelia.local>,

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <here-BF13F5.0...@news.individual.net> android
> <he...@there.was> wrote:
> > Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> > a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program. It just
> > wouldn't open on a double click otherwise! Going through the different
> > folders to find the app to be used for that dragging and dropping could
> > be a PITA...
>
> 1) There is no such thing as System 9.

There sure was, sort of. :-p

>
> 2) There was never a requirement to use a third party app to change
> which app opened a file.

Care to enlighten me how it was done then. Drag 'n drop doesn't count,
we're talking click and play. ;-/
--
teleportation kills

[Your Name]

In article <here-5D029A.0...@news.individual.net>, android

<he...@there.was> wrote:
> In article <slrnnhfou9....@amelia.local>,
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > In message <here-BF13F5.0...@news.individual.net> android
> > <he...@there.was> wrote:
> > > Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> > > a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program. It just
> > > wouldn't open on a double click otherwise! Going through the different
> > > folders to find the app to be used for that dragging and dropping could
> > > be a PITA...
> >
> > 1) There is no such thing as System 9.
>
> There sure was, sort of. :-p

Mac OS 9. The naming changed to "Mac OS" after System 7.x.

> > 2) There was never a requirement to use a third party app to change
> > which app opened a file.
>
> Care to enlighten me how it was done then. Drag 'n drop doesn't count,
> we're talking click and play. ;-/

Mac OS X has a contextual menu item "Open With" where you can selected
with app to open a selected file with, including Classic apps on Macs
that can run Classic environment. I can't remember (and can't be
bothered rebooting to find out) if that option was also in Mac OS 9.

There is an add-on for Mac OS 9 (and possibly 8) called A-Dock that
gave you a Mac OS X-like Dock, but I can't remember if the apps you put
on that worked with drag 'n' drop. If it does, then that saves you
needing to go through folders (assuming you put the appropriate app in
the Dock or it's already running of course).

[android]

In article <210420161831478639%Your...@YourISP.com>,

Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <here-5D029A.0...@news.individual.net>, android
> <he...@there.was> wrote:
> > In article <slrnnhfou9....@amelia.local>,
> > Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > > In message <here-BF13F5.0...@news.individual.net> android
> > > <he...@there.was> wrote:
> > > > Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> > > > a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program. It just
> > > > wouldn't open on a double click otherwise! Going through the different
> > > > folders to find the app to be used for that dragging and dropping could
> > > > be a PITA...
> > >
> > > 1) There is no such thing as System 9.
> >
> > There sure was, sort of. :-p
>
> Mac OS 9. The naming changed to "Mac OS" after System 7.x.
>
>
>
> > > 2) There was never a requirement to use a third party app to change
> > > which app opened a file.
> >
> > Care to enlighten me how it was done then. Drag 'n drop doesn't count,
> > we're talking click and play. ;-/
>
> Mac OS X has a contextual menu item "Open With" where you can selected
> with app to open a selected file with, including Classic apps on Macs
> that can run Classic environment. I can't remember (and can't be
> bothered rebooting to find out) if that option was also in Mac OS 9.

So you don't know!

>
> There is an add-on for Mac OS 9 (and possibly 8) called A-Dock that
> gave you a Mac OS X-like Dock, but I can't remember if the apps you put
> on that worked with drag 'n' drop.

That's third party and not click and play...

If it does, then that saves you
> needing to go through folders (assuming you put the appropriate app in
> the Dock or it's already running of course).

That would not help you unless it was your personal computer.
--
teleportation kills

[Patty Winter]

In article <kbqdnW-ekOonZ4rK...@earthlink.com>,

Paul Magnussen <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>I'm pretty certain 4 & 5 have the same format: at least, they can both
>open each other's documents (I have both on my old G3).

The older Word docs on my Mac are listed as "Microsoft Word 1.x-5.x document."


Patty

[android]

In article <5718edb3$0$44963$742e...@news.sonic.net>,

OpenOffice.org is graet for opening old files from WordPerfect and MS
Office...
--
teleportation kills

[nospam]

In article <here-18621F.0...@news.individual.net>, android

<he...@there.was> wrote:

> > > Back to System 9 and earlier then you had to change the file creator in
> > > a third party app to get a file to open in the proper program.
> >
> > no you didn't.
>
> open from the menu or drag 'n drop doesn't count...

yes it most certainly does count.

[android]

In article <210420161530394379%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

not then the system advertises easy of use featuring click an play as a
main feature.
--
teleportation kills