Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
Rotten Apple
Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
Monday, March 02, 2009
Apple's iPhone is a hit everywhere in the world - except for Japan.
It turns out that Apple's video-playing, music-downloading, motion-sensing
handset is just too, well, backward for the Japanese market.
In fact, the iPhone is such a flop in the Land of the Rising Sun that it's
being given away free with a 2-year contract, Wired News reports.
Adding insult to injury is the fact that carrier charges are a lot cheaper
in Japan than they are in the U.S., and Apple hasn't learned to compete.
Few Japanese want to pay $60 per month to use a phone that can't shoot
video, receive TV signals or text-message photos.
"The pricing has been completely out of whack with market reality," one
expert on the Japanese cell-phone market tells Wired News. "I think they
[Apple and its partners overseas] are in the process of adjusting to local
conditions."
Alan Baker
"Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
>
> Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
>
> Monday, March 02, 2009
So more than a year out of date...
>
> Apple's iPhone is a hit everywhere in the world - except for Japan.
>
> It turns out that Apple's video-playing, music-downloading, motion-sensing
> handset is just too, well, backward for the Japanese market.
>
> In fact, the iPhone is such a flop in the Land of the Rising Sun that it's
> being given away free with a 2-year contract, Wired News reports.
>
> Adding insult to injury is the fact that carrier charges are a lot cheaper
> in Japan than they are in the U.S., and Apple hasn't learned to compete.
>
> Few Japanese want to pay $60 per month to use a phone that can't shoot
> video, receive TV signals or text-message photos.
>
> "The pricing has been completely out of whack with market reality," one
> expert on the Japanese cell-phone market tells Wired News. "I think they
> [Apple and its partners overseas] are in the process of adjusting to local
> conditions."
--
"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
"I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone
"It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix." -- "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X)
'[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' --
'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the
IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM)
'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included
on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun)
Rotten Apple
"Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:alangbaker-B8419...@news.shawcable.com...
> In article <slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
> "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
>>
>> Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
>>
>> Monday, March 02, 2009
>
> So more than a year out of date...
So post a story where this has been reversed.
Lloyd Parsons
Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
> "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
> >
> > Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
> >
> > Monday, March 02, 2009
>
> So more than a year out of date...
Which is really new news for rotty, his reading skills are sorely lacking...
--
Lloyd
Rotten Apple
"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-8CE2...@port80.individual.net...
A great reader like you ought to have no problem finding a story that
reverses the one I quoted.
> --
> Lloyd
>
>
Alan Baker
"Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:alangbaker-B8419...@news.shawcable.com...
> > In article <slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
> > "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
> >>
> >> Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
> >>
> >> Monday, March 02, 2009
> >
> > So more than a year out of date...
>
> So post a story where this has been reversed.
"5:57PM It looks like you're selling a lot of machines in Asia, can you
talk about that? Tim: iPhone sales in Japan are up 400 percent, Mac
growth is up but we can do better. Mac sales in Asia Pacific are up 55
percent, it's our best area. iPhone sales really drove an incredible
amount of revenue growth."
<http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/25/apple-q1-earning-beat-expectations-ip
hone-sales-double/>
That's Tim Cook (Apple's COO) on January 25, 2010, saying:
"iPhone sales in Japan are up 400%"
Spin away, Edwin!
Lloyd Parsons
"Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:lloydparsons-8CE2...@port80.individual.net...
> > In article <alangbaker-B8419...@news.shawcable.com>,
> > Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
> >> "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
> >> >
> >> > Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
> >> >
> >> > Monday, March 02, 2009
> >>
> >> So more than a year out of date...
> >
> > Which is really new news for rotty, his reading skills are sorely
> > lacking...
>
> A great reader like you ought to have no problem finding a story that
> reverses the one I quoted.
>
I probably could, but why bother? You don't actually give a damn, you just like to tweak a few noses. I can live with that... :)
--
Lloyd
Alan Baker
Lloyd Parsons <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
And besides, I already did.
Watch Edwin run for the "tall grass" on that one.
:-)
Rotten Apple
> In article <SPrWn.3879$Hw....@newsfe10.iad>,
> "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>
>> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
>> news:alangbaker-B8419...@news.shawcable.com...
>> > In article <slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
>> > "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
>> >>
>> >> Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
>> >>
>> >> Monday, March 02, 2009
>> >
>> > So more than a year out of date...
>>
>> So post a story where this has been reversed.
>
> "5:57PM It looks like you're selling a lot of machines in Asia, can you
> talk about that? Tim: iPhone sales in Japan are up 400 percent, Mac
> growth is up but we can do better. Mac sales in Asia Pacific are up 55
> percent, it's our best area. iPhone sales really drove an incredible
> amount of revenue growth."
>
> <http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/25/apple-q1-earning-beat-expectations-ip
> hone-sales-double/>
>
> That's Tim Cook (Apple's COO) on January 25, 2010, saying:
>
> "iPhone sales in Japan are up 400%"
>
> Spin away, Edwin!
Giving iPhones away for free with a cheap call plan has really increased
sales?
Rotten Apple
> In article <lloydparsons-4B6F...@port80.individual.net>,
> Lloyd Parsons <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <xWrWn.4940$RC5....@newsfe08.iad>,
>> "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote in message
>> > news:lloydparsons-8CE2...@port80.individual.net...
>> > > In article <alangbaker-B8419...@news.shawcable.com>,
>> > > Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> In article <slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
>> > >> "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Monday, March 02, 2009
>> > >>
>> > >> So more than a year out of date...
>> > >
>> > > Which is really new news for rotty, his reading skills are sorely
>> > > lacking...
>> >
>> > A great reader like you ought to have no problem finding a story that
>> > reverses the one I quoted.
>> >
>> I probably could, but why bother? You don't actually give a damn, you
>> just
>> like to tweak a few noses. I can live with that... :)
>
> And besides, I already did.
Yeah, you showed what happens when you give away iPhones for free together
with a cheap call plan.
Alan Baker
Alan Baker
"Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
I showed that the iPhone is not a "flop in Japan".
This shows it too:
<http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-
japan-smartphone-market-update3-.html>
72% of the Japanese smartphone market doesn't make the iPhone a "flop",
now does it Edwin?
Rotten Apple
No you didn't. It's a flop because they have to give them away for free.
MuahMan is right. You're a fucking moron.
> This shows it too:
>
> <http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-
> japan-smartphone-market-update3-.html>
>
> 72% of the Japanese smartphone market doesn't make the iPhone a "flop",
> now does it Edwin?
""Last year was just the beginning of the smartphone competition, which is
why Apple did so well," said Calvin Huang, who rates iPhone assembler Hon
Hai Precision Industry Co. "buy" at Daiwa Securities Group Inc. in Taipei.
"This year will be much more competitive."
The asshole who calls me a "cherry picker" doesn't read the whole story!
LOL
Thanks for showing what a free iPhone together with a cheap call plan will
do, moron!
Maybe KDT will get in here to talk about all the profits Apple isn't making
in Japan?
Alan Baker
"Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
Sorry, but you'd have to show that other smart phones aren't given away
for free as well. And it still wouldn't make the phone a flop for Apple
if the carrier is giving them away for free with a contract.
>
> MuahMan is right. You're a fucking moron.
>
> > This shows it too:
> >
> > <http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-
> > japan-smartphone-market-update3-.html>
> >
> > 72% of the Japanese smartphone market doesn't make the iPhone a "flop",
> > now does it Edwin?
>
> ""Last year was just the beginning of the smartphone competition, which is
> why Apple did so well," said Calvin Huang, who rates iPhone assembler Hon
> Hai Precision Industry Co. "buy" at Daiwa Securities Group Inc. in Taipei.
> "This year will be much more competitive."
That's an opinion. The part I posted was a fact. A fact that completely
destroys your claim that the "the iPhone flops in Japan".
>
> The asshole who calls me a "cherry picker" doesn't read the whole story!
> LOL
>
> Thanks for showing what a free iPhone together with a cheap call plan will
> do, moron!
>
> Maybe KDT will get in here to talk about all the profits Apple isn't making
> in Japan?
Why? How do you imagine that carrier-subsidized iPhones impact Apple's
profits?
Chance Furlong
> In article <slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
> "Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
> >
> > Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
> >
> > Monday, March 02, 2009
>
> So more than a year out of date.
Edwin is such a dolt, he does know how to read.
Rotten Apple
Why would I have to show other phones are also a flop?
> And it still wouldn't make the phone a flop for Apple
> if the carrier is giving them away for free with a contract.
The contract is for a cheaper plan than what they have in the U.S., moron.
Free phone with no high call plan to subsidize the free phone. That makes
it a flop.
>>
>> MuahMan is right. You're a fucking moron.
>>
>> > This shows it too:
>> >
>> > <http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-
>> > japan-smartphone-market-update3-.html>
>> >
>> > 72% of the Japanese smartphone market doesn't make the iPhone a "flop",
>> > now does it Edwin?
>>
>> ""Last year was just the beginning of the smartphone competition, which
>> is
>> why Apple did so well," said Calvin Huang, who rates iPhone assembler Hon
>> Hai Precision Industry Co. "buy" at Daiwa Securities Group Inc. in
>> Taipei.
>> "This year will be much more competitive."
>
> That's an opinion.
That's a fact.
> The part I posted was a fact. A fact that completely
> destroys your claim that the "the iPhone flops in Japan".
That wasn't my claim, moron. It's still a free iPhone with a cheap call
plan. Still a flop.
>>
>> The asshole who calls me a "cherry picker" doesn't read the whole story!
>> LOL
>>
>> Thanks for showing what a free iPhone together with a cheap call plan
>> will
>> do, moron!
>>
>> Maybe KDT will get in here to talk about all the profits Apple isn't
>> making
>> in Japan?
>
> Why? How do you imagine that carrier-subsidized iPhones impact Apple's
> profits?
You ARE a fucking moron!
White Spirit
> In article<slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
> "Rotten Apple"<rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>> Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
>> Monday, March 02, 2009
> So more than a year out of date...
By Japan's standards, the iPhone is more like five years out of date.
Lloyd Parsons
White Spirit <wsp...@homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
If that is so true, then why are the sales up so much?
--
Lloyd
MuahMan
> In article <i0donq$8f...@news.eternal-september.org>,> > > In article<slqWn.5162$wm1.1...@newsfe01.iad>,
> > > "Rotten Apple"<rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
>
> > >> Monday, March 02, 2009
>
> > > So more than a year out of date...
>
> > By Japan's standards, the iPhone is more like five years out of date.
>
> If that is so true, then why are the sales up so much?
>
> --
> Lloyd
Because they count it as a sell when they give one away. DUH!
Lloyd Parsons
<21bce7f3-138f-44f1...@x27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's because Apple got paid for them. So if the carriers are giving
them away, it is because they are fully subsidizing them.
--
Lloyd
Chance Furlong
> DUH!
Is that what you say when you try to figure out how to turn on your
Commodore 64?
Alan Baker
"Rotten Apple" <rot...@pple.com> wrote:
Because simply defining giving away phones as meaning they are flops is
absurd in a market where subsidizing phones is standard practice.
>
> > And it still wouldn't make the phone a flop for Apple
> > if the carrier is giving them away for free with a contract.
>
> The contract is for a cheaper plan than what they have in the U.S., moron.
> Free phone with no high call plan to subsidize the free phone. That makes
> it a flop.
Not unless you can show that there are other smartphones in the same
market that are sold differently.
>
> >>
> >> MuahMan is right. You're a fucking moron.
> >>
> >> > This shows it too:
> >> >
> >> > <http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-
> >> > japan-smartphone-market-update3-.html>
> >> >
> >> > 72% of the Japanese smartphone market doesn't make the iPhone a "flop",
> >> > now does it Edwin?
> >>
> >> ""Last year was just the beginning of the smartphone competition, which
> >> is
> >> why Apple did so well," said Calvin Huang, who rates iPhone assembler Hon
> >> Hai Precision Industry Co. "buy" at Daiwa Securities Group Inc. in
> >> Taipei.
> >> "This year will be much more competitive."
> >
> > That's an opinion.
>
> That's a fact.
No, Edwin: it is an opinion. Any statement about what is going to happen
in the marketplace in the future cannot be a fact.
>
> > The part I posted was a fact. A fact that completely
> > destroys your claim that the "the iPhone flops in Japan".
>
> That wasn't my claim, moron. It's still a free iPhone with a cheap call
> plan. Still a flop.
LOL
>
> >>
> >> The asshole who calls me a "cherry picker" doesn't read the whole story!
> >> LOL
> >>
> >> Thanks for showing what a free iPhone together with a cheap call plan
> >> will
> >> do, moron!
> >>
> >> Maybe KDT will get in here to talk about all the profits Apple isn't
> >> making
> >> in Japan?
> >
> > Why? How do you imagine that carrier-subsidized iPhones impact Apple's
> > profits?
>
> You ARE a fucking moron!
LOL
Lloyd Parsons
Chance Furlong <T-B...@megakatcity.com> wrote:
He doesn't have that modern marvel, he bought the Vic20
--
Lloyd
AZ Nomad
Frankly from your previous trolling behavior, I don't believe a word
you say. Why don't you post a citation to back it up, if you can?
Alan Baker
AZ Nomad <azno...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
<http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=japan+iphone+ma
rket+share+72%25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=>
White Spirit
>> Is that what you say when you try to figure out how to turn on your
>> Commodore 64?
> He doesn't have that modern marvel, he bought the Vic20
You might jest but I still have my Vic20, C64, C16, Plus/4, C128, C128D
and C128DCR.
The best thing is, they have just as much mobile 'phone reception with
hand contact as the iPhone ;)
Lloyd Parsons
White Spirit <wsp...@homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
Yeah, but a bit big to carry in your purse! :)
--
Lloyd
KDT
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html
>
>
> Monday, March 02, 2009
>
>
> It turns out that Apple's video-playing, music-downloading, motion-sensing
> handset is just too, well, backward for the Japanese market.
>
> In fact, the iPhone is such a flop in the Land of the Rising Sun that it's
> being given away free with a 2-year contract, Wired News reports.
>
> Adding insult to injury is the fact that carrier charges are a lot cheaper
> in Japan than they are in the U.S., and Apple hasn't learned to compete.
>
> Few Japanese want to pay $60 per month to use a phone that can't shoot
> video, receive TV signals or text-message photos.
>
> "The pricing has been completely out of whack with market reality," one
> expert on the Japanese cell-phone market tells Wired News. "I think they
> [Apple and its partners overseas] are in the process of adjusting to local
> conditions."
"April 23 (Bloomberg) -- Apple Inc.’s iPhone shipments to Japan more
than doubled in the past year, capturing 72 percent of the country’s
smartphone market, a research firm said.
Shipments of the iPhone, which began selling in Japan in July 2008,
climbed to 1.69 million units in the year ended March 31, Tokyo-based
MM Research Institute Ltd. said in a report yesterday. That raised the
total to 2.3 million, Hideaki Yokota, an analyst at the research firm,
said by telephone today.
The iPhone helped smartphone sales more than double last fiscal year
in Japan as shipments of regular mobile phones shrank, according to
the report. Smartphone shipments will probably exceed 3 million units
in the 12 months started April 1, even as the overall market is
forecast to contract for a third year, it said."
Quantum Leaper
> In article <slrni2kqac.f...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
> AZ Nomad <azno...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:33:14 -0500, Lloyd Parsons
>> <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
>>> In article <i0donq$8f9$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> White Spirit <wsp...@homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 29/06/10 20:17, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article<slqWn.5162$wm1....@newsfe01.iad>,
>>>>> "Rotten Apple"<rot...@pple.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Apple's iPhone Flops in Japan, Now Sold for Free
>>>>
>>>>>> Monday, March 02, 2009
>>>>
>>>>> So more than a year out of date...
>>>>
>>>> By Japan's standards, the iPhone is more like five years out of
>>>> date.
>>
>>> If that is so true, then why are the sales up so much?
>>
>> Frankly from your previous trolling behavior, I don't believe a word
>> you say. Why don't you post a citation to back it up, if you can?
>
> <http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=japan+iphone+ma
> rket+share+72%25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=>
>
"Apple's actual market share among *all* cell phones in Japan is 4.9%,
according to the same report from MM Research Institute Ltd that
BusinessWeek is using as their source."
AZ Nomad
A few years back, the market was rather ripe for the iphone's
emergence. Microsoft had pretty much taken over the smartphone
market, but couldn't manage to put out a release that wasn't a buggy
bloated heap of pigshit. Palm was in limbo and hadn't released
anything in years. Then along comes the iphone. Lots of problems at
first, no software, but now there's tons, and the bugs have been
mostly worked out.
However things have changed a bit since the iphone came to town.
Microsoft is irrelevent. Palm Webos is a disappointment, but might be
rather good given better hardware. Android is on several platforms
and is taking off, chipping away at apple's lead.
Palm is now bought out by HP, but wtf wants another single vendor
solution? Might as well buy a apple if you don't want freedom of
choice. Best thing hp/palm could do is join up with android and merge
the best pieces of the webos user interface into android.
Moshe
> Palm is now bought out by HP, but wtf wants another single vendor
> solution? Might as well buy a apple if you don't want freedom of
> choice. Best thing hp/palm could do is join up with android and merge
> the best pieces of the webos user interface into android.
Biggest problem with the Android right now is confusion.
I'm looking for a Verizon phone and they have the normal
Android running some version of OS. Then July 14 they
are releasing the Android X, but v 2.2 (I think?) of the
software won't be included, which for some reason is
pissing people off.
Fret not though because rumor has it, the Android 2,
will be released in August and will have this magic v
2.2 software.
Sheesh!!
No wonder people buy iPhones.
Alan Baker
"Quantum Leaper" <lea...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
And?
The iPhone doesn't compete with all cell phones any more than a luxury
SUV competes with all cars.
Quantum Leaper
> The iPhone doesn't compete with all cell phones any more than a luxury
> SUV competes with all cars.
>
What Luxury items are Free? It more like a Moped (iPhone) versus a Car
(cellphone), at least based on price.
Alan Baker
"Quantum Leaper" <lea...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Cell phones are often paid for with the contract you must sign. This is
as true of smartphones as regular cell phones.
RonB
You mean iPhone give aways are up 400%. But what does 400% mean? If
sales were low before it's no big deal to jump sales 400% and still have
almost none of the market.
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
ZnU
RonB <ronb02...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-j
apan-smartphone-market-update3-.html
"April 23 (Bloomberg) -- Apple Inc.零 iPhone shipments to Japan more
than doubled in the past year, capturing 72 percent of the country零
smartphone market, a research firm said."
Although the Japanese smartphone market itself is a lot smaller than
you'd think, given Japan's reputation for fancy phones.
--
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
gilroy fernandez
chrisv
>http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-j
>apan-smartphone-market-update3-.html
>
>"April 23 (Bloomberg) -- Apple Inc.零 iPhone shipments to Japan more
>than doubled in the past year, capturing 72 percent of the country零
>smartphone market, a research firm said."
>
>Although the Japanese smartphone market itself is a lot smaller than
>you'd think, given Japan's reputation for fancy phones.
Good forbid we leave our computers at home/work.
I guess that makes me a luddite.
--
"Most people dont want a choice. Thats why people ship windows." -
"True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark
One Shot, One Kill
"chrisv" <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:p0fm2616ja0pvdr10...@4ax.com...
chrisv is a piece of shit. chrisv is a bald faced liar.