Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to succeed
ZnU
http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-and-help-window
s-7-to-succeed/
Good luck with all that.
My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text above
the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for common PC
errors".
--
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
Mr X
> Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-and-help-wi...
> s-7-to-succeed/
>
> Good luck with all that.
>
> My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text above
> the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for common PC
> errors".
I love this line:
"All the tech press is saying the same thing and comments made by
readers of those websites are echoing, mostly anyway, their
sentiments."
No Flash! Can't Multitask!
These people Do Not Understand what "appliance computing" is supposed
to be.
I haven't seen this term dredged up in relation to the iPad but that's
clearly where Apple is going with this, dur.
Sony tried it with the eVilla but making a desktop appliance computer
is something of a moronic activity given that the modern GUI of WinME
and MacOS 9 was good enough for most people.
Granted, maintaining a Windows (or even OS X) install is work to some
degree but there's no great demand for people to run away from the
general-purpose PC.
The eVilla was tied to a desk and didn't have any developer support.
It could only connect to the internet via 56K. It couldn't play
leading-edge games of the day. But it could play Flash and RealPlayer
content, LOL.
The iPad is the exact opposite of this! 1.5lbs. 10hr battery life.
Small enough to hand-carry or stuff in a backpack, though 1.5lbs isn't
as light as I'd like.
And, more importantly, NOBODY ELSE IN THE UNIVERSAL MEDIA PLAYER SPACE
(other than them, with the current iPhone OS devices).
Again from the article:
"With a starting price tag of $500 it’s simply too expensive, twice
the price of a better specification netbook "
He's full of crap here. The only netbook with any specs similar to the
iPad is the $500 Asus Eee 1201N and the iPad blows that away in terms
of integrated graphics performance and movie playing (twice the
battery life and well-balanced ASIC CPU/GPU, while the Eee has a 9400M
spotwelded to a shitty cut down low-watt x86 design).
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/876/nvidia_ion_motherboard.jpg
Don't get me wrong, if I were going to Fry's looking for a hobby
project I'd be on the Ion like white on rice, but Apple has a few more
resources than I do to put together a better-balanced hardware
solution.
As for the price, $500 is indeed to much for just a media player. I'd
LOVE it for the gym, but $500 is $500.
Throw in a good web browser like Safari tho, and I'd pay $200 for it
without thinking.
$300 left of value left to find. The DSi XL is going to be $200 or
more, and the iPad buries this as a handheld game platform.
$100 left of value to find!
This depends on one's other portable needs other than movies, web
browser, games, ereader, netbook replacement (?). But with Apple's
99.4% of the mobile development market, there'll be an killer app for
everyone by Christmas.
ZnU
<9ccb5831-1b59-4eeb...@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Mr X <imout...@mac.com> wrote:
But you've got to appreciate the obliviousness of a guy writing an
article on a site that prominently advertises a "free scan for common PC
errors" but can't wrap his head around why anyone would ever want a
tablet that didn't run Windows 7.
> The eVilla was tied to a desk and didn't have any developer support.
> It could only connect to the internet via 56K. It couldn't play
> leading-edge games of the day. But it could play Flash and RealPlayer
> content, LOL.
>
> The iPad is the exact opposite of this! 1.5lbs. 10hr battery life.
> Small enough to hand-carry or stuff in a backpack, though 1.5lbs isn't
> as light as I'd like.
>
> And, more importantly, NOBODY ELSE IN THE UNIVERSAL MEDIA PLAYER SPACE
> (other than them, with the current iPhone OS devices).
Exactly. Previous computing appliances failed because 1) The web hasn't
become the overwhelmingly important part of computing that it presently
is, 2) they had form factors that were generally no more compelling that
fully-fledged computers and 3) they never managed to attract third-party
developers.
> Again from the article:
>
> "With a starting price tag of $500 it�s simply too expensive, twice
> the price of a better specification netbook "
>
> He's full of crap here. The only netbook with any specs similar to the
> iPad is the $500 Asus Eee 1201N and the iPad blows that away in terms
> of integrated graphics performance and movie playing (twice the
> battery life and well-balanced ASIC CPU/GPU, while the Eee has a 9400M
> spotwelded to a shitty cut down low-watt x86 design).
>
> http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/876/nvidia_ion_motherboard.jpg
More to the point, people pay $200-$400 for iPod Touches; the notion
that $500 is too expensive for the iPad seems silly in that context.
Wintel advocates are obsessed with comparing the prices of other
technology products to generic Wintel PCs, but it makes no sense. There
are specific market conditions that make Wintel machines almost
ludicrously inexpensive. The primary one is probably that, because of
the way the market is structured, Wintel vendors have almost no ability
to offer any unique value; they all just make the same generic stuff. So
Wintel customers save money, but the products they're buying are boring
and for all the vaunted "choice" in the Wintel market there's little
actual product differentiation.
[snip]
Edwin
"Mr X" <imout...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:9ccb5831-1b59-4eeb...@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 1, 10:43 pm, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to
> succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-and-help-wi...
> s-7-to-succeed/
>
> Good luck with all that.
>
> My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text above
> the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for common PC
> errors".
"I love this line:
"All the tech press is saying the same thing and comments made by
readers of those websites are echoing, mostly anyway, their
sentiments.""
"No Flash! Can't Multitask!"
Maccies have gone back to calling multitasking a "buzzword." LOL
Flash is Evil because their ghod Steve Jobs banishes it from the Holy Mac!
LOL
"These people Do Not Understand what "appliance computing" is supposed
to be."
But Steve Jobs says the iPad is a revolutionary new device that will kill
the netbook. It'll have to be more than "appliance computing" to fill that
tall order.
Consider this Maccie's take on it:
"[The iPad is] ...a product that starts at $500 that can't be matched
by laptop PCs costing $5000. " -- Karl Jonas Erik Eklundh,
aka Sandman, Jan. 28, 2010
"I haven't seen this term dredged up in relation to the iPad but that's
clearly where Apple is going with this, dur."
Steve Jobs is wrong about the "revolution?"
[remaining drivel snipped]
--
"[The iPad is] ...a product that starts at $500 that can't be matched
by laptop PCs costing $5000. " -- Karl Jonas Erik Eklundh,
aka Sandman, Jan. 28, 2010
Mayor Of R'lyeh
> Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-and-help-wi...
> s-7-to-succeed/
>
> Good luck with all that.
>
> My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text above
> the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for common PC
> errors".
>
Yeah 'cause everyone quit buying PCs because of that. The humorous
part is that in trying to make it out like the author is clueless all
you've done is point out your own.
ZnU
<5b73d10d-38d6-4697...@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
"Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.o...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 1:43�am, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to
> > succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-an
> > d-help-w i... s-7-to-succeed/
> >
> > Good luck with all that.
> >
> > My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text
> > above the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for
> > common PC errors".
> >
>
> Yeah 'cause everyone quit buying PCs because of that.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
> The humorous part is that in trying to make it out like the author is
> clueless all you've done is point out your own.
The author is essentially arguing there's no reason anyone would ever
want an information appliance like the iPad when they could run Windows
7 on a tablet... on a page advertising scans for "common PC errors".
That seems like some pretty impressive obliviousness. Though I can't say
I'm too surprised you share it.
Mayor Of R'lyeh
> In article
> <5b73d10d-38d6-4697-ba7c-e4d3aad80...@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> "Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 2, 1:43 am, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > > Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to
> > > succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-an
> > > d-help-w i... s-7-to-succeed/
>
> > > Good luck with all that.
>
> > > My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text
> > > above the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for
> > > common PC errors".
>
> > Yeah 'cause everyone quit buying PCs because of that.
>
> I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
You seem to be making the argument that no one will want Windows based
tablet because it will have 'common Windows errors'. What that means.
That hasn't stopped PC from being the dominant computer platform.
There's no reason to believe that this will suddenly happen because
the form is a tablet.
>
> > The humorous part is that in trying to make it out like the author is
> > clueless all you've done is point out your own.
>
> The author is essentially arguing there's no reason anyone would ever
> want an information appliance like the iPad when they could run Windows
> 7 on a tablet... on a page advertising scans for "common PC errors".
> That seems like some pretty impressive obliviousness. Though I can't say
> I'm too surprised you share it.
>
I'm not surprised that you have to overhype the significance of PCs
having issues in order to support your weak point.
Lloyd Parsons
<d620478d-aec0-4389...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
"Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.o...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 4:58�pm, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <5b73d10d-38d6-4697-ba7c-e4d3aad80...@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> > �"Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 2, 1:43�am, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > > > Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to
> > > > succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-an
> > > > d-help-w i... s-7-to-succeed/
> >
> > > > Good luck with all that.
> >
> > > > My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text
> > > > above the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for
> > > > common PC errors".
> >
> > > Yeah 'cause everyone quit buying PCs because of that.
> >
> > I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
>
> You seem to be making the argument that no one will want Windows based
> tablet because it will have 'common Windows errors'. What that means.
> That hasn't stopped PC from being the dominant computer platform.
> There's no reason to believe that this will suddenly happen because
> the form is a tablet.
>
Sure there is. Touch has been around a long time, so have tablets. All
running Windows all failing in the marketplace.
ZnU
<d620478d-aec0-4389...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
"Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.o...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 4:58�pm, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <5b73d10d-38d6-4697-ba7c-e4d3aad80...@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> > �"Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 2, 1:43�am, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > > > Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to
> > > > succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-an
> > > > d-help-w i... s-7-to-succeed/
> >
> > > > Good luck with all that.
> >
> > > > My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text
> > > > above the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for
> > > > common PC errors".
> >
> > > Yeah 'cause everyone quit buying PCs because of that.
> >
> > I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
>
> You seem to be making the argument that no one will want Windows based
> tablet because it will have 'common Windows errors'.
I'm not making an argument that nobody will want one. That would be
silly. I mean, there's at least one person who wants one, presumably;
the guy who wrote that article.
I'm pointing out that *his* argument -- that the existence of Windows
tablets renders the iPad irrelevant or pointless -- is pure nonsense,
and reading through the article it's very obvious that it's yet another
example of a technology geek projecting his preferences onto the mass
consumer market.
[snip]
> > The author is essentially arguing there's no reason anyone would ever
> > want an information appliance like the iPad when they could run Windows
> > 7 on a tablet... on a page advertising scans for "common PC errors".
> > That seems like some pretty impressive obliviousness. Though I can't say
> > I'm too surprised you share it.
> >
>
> I'm not surprised that you have to overhype the significance of PCs
> having issues in order to support your weak point.
Hey, I'm not the one who decided to put a free scan offer for 'common PC
errors' in large type at the head of that page.
Edwin
"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-8E51...@port80.individual.net...
> In article
> <d620478d-aec0-4389...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> "Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.o...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 2, 4:58 pm, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <5b73d10d-38d6-4697-ba7c-e4d3aad80...@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Mayor Of R'lyeh" <mayor.of.rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Feb 2, 1:43 am, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
>> > > > Why the iPad will fail and help Windows 7 to
>> > > > succeed:http://windows7news.com/2010/01/28/why-the-ipad-will-fail-an
>> > > > d-help-w i... s-7-to-succeed/
>> >
>> > > > Good luck with all that.
>> >
>> > > > My only comment on this article will be to quote the large text
>> > > > above the first paragraph: "Tip: Click here to run a free scan for
>> > > > common PC errors".
>> >
>> > > Yeah 'cause everyone quit buying PCs because of that.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
>>
>> You seem to be making the argument that no one will want Windows based
>> tablet because it will have 'common Windows errors'. What that means.
>> That hasn't stopped PC from being the dominant computer platform.
>> There's no reason to believe that this will suddenly happen because
>> the form is a tablet.
>>
> Sure there is. Touch has been around a long time, so have tablets. All
> running Windows all failing in the marketplace.
Failing in relation to what, Apple vaporware and your dreams for it?
Windows tablets have achieved ten years of sales and can be seen in
practical use in a number of industries. Apple itself uses Windows tablet
computers to make sales within its own Apple Stores! LOL
--
"Do you see me here bitching about HP?
I own one, a touchsmart. Or a Gateway netbook?
I got one of those too." -- Lloyd Parsons Feb. 2, 2010
[snip]
Alan Baker
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
And again, you redefine terms to suit your argument.
That kind of device is a PDA, but when you need it not to count as
something HP sells, it's computer. Then it's a PDA again when you need
to denigrate the iPhone.
And now the PDA's that Apple used in the stores become tablet computers!
LOL
--
"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
"I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone
"It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix." -- "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X)
'[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' --
'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the
IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM)
'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included
on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun)
Lloyd Parsons
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
All well and good, but outside of specialized markets, the touch
computers have met a brick wall.
-hh
>
> All well and good, but outside of specialized markets, the touch
> computers have met a brick wall.
Perhaps someone will have better fortune searching for the answer to
the question of how may Windows OS Tablets were sold last year.
I did find this:
<http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Tablet-PCs-Future-
Uncertain/>
...which is an old (2005) story, but does say this of note:
"The machines, which have caught on in areas such as health care and
education, are thus likely to remain trapped in those niches for some
time to come, forecasters now say.
Roger Kay, president of Endpoint Technologies Associates and a former
International Data Corp. analyst, issued a dire forecast for the
market.
Kay, in a report published late last week, predicts that tablet
shipments will total less than 4 million units per year by 2009, well
below some recent forecasts, which had predicted shipments as high as
14 million during the same time period, he said"
Assuming that Kay's prediction hit the mark (despite such forecasts
often being optimistic, plus the downturn from the Economic melt-
down), what becomes intriguing is that the Apple TV was estimated to
have sold just under 3M units in 2008, and the report from Apple for
2009 was triple the sales. This would suggest that Apple TV sales
were around 9 million ... and that's roughly twice as many units as
what it appears that Windows PC tablets sold.
Overall, it would appear that the potential exists for the iPad to
"catch up" with Windows Tablets within its first year of sales.
-hh
Dave Fritzinger
> "Lloyd Parsons" <lloydpars...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
> news:lloydparsons-8E51...@port80.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <d620478d-aec0-4389-bdac-1516e212c...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
system.
"Tuesday, November 3, 2009
Exclusive look at Apple's new iPod touch-based EasyPay checkout
By Gary Allen, ifoAppleStore, Special to AppleInsider
Published: 09:05 AM EST
Apple stores to ditch Windows EasyPay systems...
(ifoAppleStore) Within two weeks, Apple stores will begin retiring
their current Windows CE-based portable computers and start using a
custom-designed and crafted iPod touch to check out customers.
AppleInsider has a first look at the new system.
Those who have seen the system for processing credit card, debit card
and cash purchases, dubbed "EasyPay touch," said it combines iPod
touch features with a magnetic stripe reader, advanced barcode scanner
and Apple-written software to speed plastic and cash transactions."
Alan Baker
<60763b45-969a-417b...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Dave Fritzinger <dfri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> You seem to be making the argument that no one will want Windows based
> > >> tablet because it will have 'common Windows errors'. What that means.
> > >> That hasn't stopped PC from being the dominant computer platform.
> > >> There's no reason to believe that this will suddenly happen because
> > >> the form is a tablet.
> >
> > > Sure there is. �Touch has been around a long time, so have tablets. �All
> > > running Windows all failing in the marketplace.
> >
> > Failing in relation to what, Apple vaporware and your dreams for it?
> > Windows tablets have achieved ten years of sales and can be seen in
> > practical use in a number of industries. � Apple itself uses Windows tablet
> > computers to make sales within its own Apple Stores! � LOL
> >
> Actually, you are wrong about that. They now use an iPod Touch based
> system.
But now that they're using iPods, they won't be "tablet computers"
anymore!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ye2v7uv
>
> "Tuesday, November 3, 2009
> Exclusive look at Apple's new iPod touch-based EasyPay checkout
>
> By Gary Allen, ifoAppleStore, Special to AppleInsider
> Published: 09:05 AM EST
>
> Apple stores to ditch Windows EasyPay systems...
> (ifoAppleStore) Within two weeks, Apple stores will begin retiring
> their current Windows CE-based portable computers and start using a
> custom-designed and crafted iPod touch to check out customers.
> AppleInsider has a first look at the new system.
>
> Those who have seen the system for processing credit card, debit card
> and cash purchases, dubbed "EasyPay touch," said it combines iPod
> touch features with a magnetic stripe reader, advanced barcode scanner
> and Apple-written software to speed plastic and cash transactions."
--
Edwin
"Dave Fritzinger" <dfri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:60763b45-969a-417b...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Actually I'm right about that.
"They now use an iPod Touch basedsystem."
You don't seem capable of understanding your own quotes. "Within two
weeks" does not mean "now." Apple Stores are using Windows tablets to make
sales *now* and they've been using them for *years.*
"Tuesday, November 3, 2009
Exclusive look at Apple's new iPod touch-based EasyPay checkout
"By Gary Allen, ifoAppleStore, Special to AppleInsider
Published: 09:05 AM EST"
"Apple stores to ditch Windows EasyPay systems...
(ifoAppleStore) Within two weeks, Apple stores will begin retiring
their current Windows CE-based portable computers and start using a
custom-designed and crafted iPod touch to check out customers.
AppleInsider has a first look at the new system."
Apple vaporware can't wash away the success of Windows tablets. Apple
owes a debt of gratitude to Microsoft for helping to make the Apple Stores a
success! LOL
"Those who have seen the system for processing credit card, debit card
and cash purchases, dubbed "EasyPay touch," said it combines iPod
touch features with a magnetic stripe reader, advanced barcode scanner
and Apple-written software to speed plastic and cash transactions.""
It's still just vaporware.
Dave Fritzinger
> "Dave Fritzinger" <dfrit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Actually, IIRC, they weren't using Windows tablets. They were Windows
CE devices, as it states in the article I quoted.
>
> "Those who have seen the system for processing credit card, debit card
> and cash purchases, dubbed "EasyPay touch," said it combines iPod
> touch features with a magnetic stripe reader, advanced barcode scanner
> and Apple-written software to speed plastic and cash transactions.""
>
> It's still just vaporware.
Edwin, please note the date of the article I quoted. It is 11/3/2009.
Today is 2/3/2010. That is 2 *months* after the article was written. I
have seen the iPod Touch based check out system in action at the
Kahala Mall Apple Store. You are incorrect in your statement above,
where you say it is vaporware.
Dave Fritzinger
Oops, make that *3* months. You are even more incorrect.
Edwin
"Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:alangbaker-FDA22...@news.shawcable.com...
> In article
> <60763b45-969a-417b...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> Dave Fritzinger <dfri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > >> You seem to be making the argument that no one will want Windows
>> > >> based
>> > >> tablet because it will have 'common Windows errors'. What that
>> > >> means.
>> > >> That hasn't stopped PC from being the dominant computer platform.
>> > >> There's no reason to believe that this will suddenly happen because
>> > >> the form is a tablet.
>> >
>> > > Sure there is. Touch has been around a long time, so have tablets.
>> > > All
>> > > running Windows all failing in the marketplace.
>> >
>> > Failing in relation to what, Apple vaporware and your dreams for it?
>> > Windows tablets have achieved ten years of sales and can be seen in
>> > practical use in a number of industries. Apple itself uses Windows
>> > tablet
>> > computers to make sales within its own Apple Stores! LOL
>> >
>> Actually, you are wrong about that. They now use an iPod Touch based
>> system.
They're still using Windows tablets. The iPods are supposed to arrive in
two weeks.
> But now that they're using iPods,
They're not using iPods yet.
> they won't be "tablet computers" anymore!
Apple will still owe a debt of gratitude to Windows tablet computers for all
the Apple Store sales that were facilitated by those devices.
[snip]
Edwin
Are they going to redo all the Apple Store sales that were done on Wintel
tablets so you guys can be right about "nobody" using them? *snicker*
Dave Fritzinger
That sound you just heard was Edwin, moving the goalposts, since he
has been shown to be wrong.
BTW, Edwin, your method of quoting previous posts really stinks.
Edwin
Actually those "Windows CE devices" are Windows tablets.
> > "Those who have seen the system for processing credit card, debit card
> > and cash purchases, dubbed "EasyPay touch," said it combines iPod
> > touch features with a magnetic stripe reader, advanced barcode scanner
> > and Apple-written software to speed plastic and cash transactions.""
>
> > It's still just vaporware.
>
> "Edwin, please note the date of the article I quoted. It is 11/3/2009.
> Today is 2/3/2010. That is 2 *months* after the article was written. I
> have seen the iPod Touch based check out system in action at the
> Kahala Mall Apple Store. You are incorrect in your statement above,
> where you say it is vaporware."
>
> Are they going to redo all the Apple Store sales that were done on Wintel
> tablets so you guys can be right about "nobody" using them? *snicker*
"That sound you just heard was Edwin, moving the goalposts, since he
has been shown to be wrong."
I wasn't wrong about the Apple Store using Wintel tablets to make sales for
a long time, you were. Any goalpost dragging is being done by you.
"BTW, Edwin, your method of quoting previous posts really stinks."
Don't blame me for your quote mangling.
Dave Fritzinger
Another quote from the same article:
"In April, AppleInsider first reported that Apple would replace its
Pocket PC-based EasyPay devices with the iPod touch, thanks to new
accessory support in the iPhone 3.0 software.
New system aims to improve
The current portable computers are made by Symbol Technologies Inc.
and run Windows CE, linked to Apple's servers via Wi-Fi."
So, are you saying that "Pocket PCs" are tablets. I was under the
impression that they were more like the Windows version of a Palm
Pilot.
>
> > > "Those who have seen the system for processing credit card, debit card
> > > and cash purchases, dubbed "EasyPay touch," said it combines iPod
> > > touch features with a magnetic stripe reader, advanced barcode scanner
> > > and Apple-written software to speed plastic and cash transactions.""
>
> > > It's still just vaporware.
>
> > "Edwin, please note the date of the article I quoted. It is 11/3/2009.
> > Today is 2/3/2010. That is 2 *months* after the article was written. I
> > have seen the iPod Touch based check out system in action at the
> > Kahala Mall Apple Store. You are incorrect in your statement above,
> > where you say it is vaporware."
>
> > Are they going to redo all the Apple Store sales that were done on Wintel
> > tablets so you guys can be right about "nobody" using them? *snicker*
>
> "That sound you just heard was Edwin, moving the goalposts, since he
> has been shown to be wrong."
>
> I wasn't wrong about the Apple Store using Wintel tablets to make sales for
> a long time, you were. Any goalpost dragging is being done by you.
Actually, it was your comment about Apple Stores using "Windows
Tablets" (which seems to have a rather fluid definition, according to
you) when I showed you didn't bother to read the date of the article I
quoted that was moving the goalposts.
>
> "BTW, Edwin, your method of quoting previous posts really stinks."
>
> Don't blame me for your quote mangling.
There are certain conventions for quoting posts, Edwin. Sometimes you
use the standard convention, using the ">" character to show posts
from other people, and sometimes you just use quotes. Please use the
former, as the latter can be confusing, especially when certain
posters (me, for instance) put portions of articles we quote in
quotes.
KDT
> Failing in relation to what, Apple vaporware and your dreams for it?
> Windows tablets have achieved ten years of sales and can be seen in
> practical use in a number of industries. Apple itself uses Windows tablet
> computers to make sales within its own Apple Stores! LOL
>
According to IDC there were only 1 million tablets sold in all last
year. Do you really think that Apple won't sell 4 million this year?
Those aren't tablets in Apple stores those are PDA's and are being
replace with iPod Touches.
Alan Baker
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
You really should learn to read. The article that said they'd be using
them in two weeks...
...is more than two weeks old.
>
> > But now that they're using iPods,
>
> They're not using iPods yet.
LOL
>
> > they won't be "tablet computers" anymore!
>
> Apple will still owe a debt of gratitude to Windows tablet computers for all
> the Apple Store sales that were facilitated by those devices.
LOL
As I said, when it suits your arguments, PDAs become "tablet computers"!
Alan Baker
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
LOL
PDAs become tablets become PDAs again as it suits your argument of the
moment...
>
> > > "Those who have seen the system for processing credit card, debit card
> > > and cash purchases, dubbed "EasyPay touch," said it combines iPod
> > > touch features with a magnetic stripe reader, advanced barcode scanner
> > > and Apple-written software to speed plastic and cash transactions.""
> >
> > > It's still just vaporware.
> >
> > "Edwin, please note the date of the article I quoted. It is 11/3/2009.
> > Today is 2/3/2010. That is 2 *months* after the article was written. I
> > have seen the iPod Touch based check out system in action at the
> > Kahala Mall Apple Store. You are incorrect in your statement above,
> > where you say it is vaporware."
> >
> > Are they going to redo all the Apple Store sales that were done on Wintel
> > tablets so you guys can be right about "nobody" using them? *snicker*
>
> "That sound you just heard was Edwin, moving the goalposts, since he
> has been shown to be wrong."
>
> I wasn't wrong about the Apple Store using Wintel tablets to make sales for
> a long time, you were. Any goalpost dragging is being done by you.
>
> "BTW, Edwin, your method of quoting previous posts really stinks."
>
> Don't blame me for your quote mangling.
LOL
Steve de Mena
>
> Assuming that Kay's prediction hit the mark (despite such forecasts
> often being optimistic, plus the downturn from the Economic melt-
> down), what becomes intriguing is that the Apple TV was estimated to
> have sold just under 3M units in 2008, and the report from Apple for
> 2009 was triple the sales. This would suggest that Apple TV sales
> were around 9 million ... a
It doesn't suggest anything, as Apple doesn't provide sales figures
for Apple TV. When they do, you can quote them. Otherwise any of us
can spout "estimates" of 50 to 50 million.
Steve
Steve de Mena
He's not really wrong. I doubt its rolled out everywhere yet.
Embarrassing how many YEARS it took them to roll that app out. No
wonder the best they could do with the iPad was a blown up iPod Touch.
Steve
Steve de Mena
Windows CE is an OS, not a form factor (i.e. "tablet"). So there were
tablets running Windows CE amongst many Microsoft OS variations.
Steve
Steve de Mena
> On Feb 3, 12:28 pm, "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>> Failing in relation to what, Apple vaporware and your dreams for it?
>> Windows tablets have achieved ten years of sales and can be seen in
>> practical use in a number of industries. Apple itself uses Windows tablet
>> computers to make sales within its own Apple Stores! LOL
>>
> According to IDC there were only 1 million tablets sold in all last
> year. Do you really think that Apple won't sell 4 million this year?
If they sell 4 million, I bet 1/2 of those are buried in a desk
drawer, unused, by the end of the year.
Steve
-hh
Steve, Steve, Steve - - part of the Art of reading a corporate
financial report is not only what is being said, but also what is not
being said. Apple does spend money on and makes revenue from the
Apple TV, and it is illegal for them to not report it. As such, the
data is there.
All what your protest is about is how the information is not presented
in the most open of fashions on a silver platter for the stockholder
investor to see.
However, every corporation and organization does these sort of
'numbers game' obfuscation to some degree...even our
Government...because all such stockholder reports are summary roll-ups
of thousands upon thousands of pages of data into a mere hundred or
so.
There are some independent parties who have had sufficient interest
into the Apple TV to do some forensic digging through the SEC-filed
reports, and the above was based on what they reported. Eventually
the real numbers will come out - - but as of today, they're not easy,
low hanging fruit.
But instead of me going and doing this labor of research, since you've
dared to complain about the quality provided, the burden is now
ethically on you to go do better.
Here's the questions:
Q1) How many "tablet" Windows PCs have been sold within recent
years? (preferably, year by year results)
Q2) How many Apple TVs have been sold within recent years? (ditto)
Q3) Ditto the iPod Touch
Q4) Ditto the Amazon Kindle, and its cousins
Q5) Ditto for whatever other products and their respective product
sales might afford some insight on the expectations of sales for the
iPad
That gives us a start to look at the terrain & players in the
competitive playing field that the iPad is expected to compete.
Show all work :-)
-hh
-hh
> >
> > According to IDC there were only 1 million tablets sold in all last
> > year. Do you really think that Apple won't sell 4 million this year?
>
> If they sell 4 million, I bet 1/2 of those are buried in a desk
> drawer, unused, by the end of the year.
$20 says that Steve can't prove that a year from now.
And $50 says that he won't even take the bet.
:-P
ZnU
Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
I see you've fully completed your deterioration into another completely
mindless Wintroll.
Alan Baker
<48f4dc40-5e2e-41f6...@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
-hh <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Sorry, I won't take that bet.
:-)
Steve de Mena
What the fuck is all this?
You quoted imaginary Apple TV sales numbers and I called you on it.
Steve
-hh
Not imaginary at all, Steve. The facts are that Apple did report a
tripling of ATV sales last quarter:
<http://www.pcworld.com/article/158874/apple_tv_sales_triple.html>
<http://bindapple.com/apple-tv-sales-update/>
As per Tim Cook: "there was a tremendous tickup year over year [for
Apple TV]. In fact unit sales were up over 3 times vs the year-ago
quarter. However let me be clear, we still consider this a hobby."
And FYI, the reports were that sales ALSO tripled last year too (2009
vs 2008):
<http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/01/21/apple-tv-sales-up-threefold-
will-see-continued-investment/>
So there's utterly no question on these upticks: Apple would go to
jail per the SEC for false claims, even if they aren't delivering the
hard sales numbers that underly them.
The question then becomes what was the value of the baseline for which
these triplings apply? Yes, Apple is being coy, and prior year
values have been admittedly harder to come by.
That's why I said that "financial forensics" apply.
In 2007:
<http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/12/10/
first_year_apple_tv_sales_fall_below_expectations.html>
Forrester Research estimated 400K units already sold, and a downgrade
in expectations from 1M to 800K.
But a similar analyst report from Munster estimated 1.6M actual in 07
and predicted <3M for 08:
<http://www.ipodobserver.com/ipo/article/
Piper_Jaffray_Estimates_2.9M_Apple_TV_Sales_in_CY2008/>
And Munster's report for 2009 estimated 6.6M;
<http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/is-apple-planning-a-dvr-
and-web-enabled-tv-set--559416>
Now go pick whatever published analyst estimates you want, and start
to apply the known facts of the "triplings" that Apple has formally
reported. Simply make sure that the estimates allign with the facts,
turn the crank to do the math and observe the results. Then grok
their implications.
Simplistically, if we say that Forrester was fairly correct for 2007,
at 800K, the tripling for 08 would put the result at 2.4M (<3M ...
alligns with the aforementioned 2008 report), and the tripling of that
value would be in the ballpark of 7.2M-9M, which exceeds Munster's
6.6M, so we simply go back to the drawing board and revise downwards
the numbers:
Forrester did say 400K actual in 2007, so triple would be 1.2M (well
under "<3M"), tripling again would be 3.6M (well under Munster's
6.6M). Consider this a lower limit; refine again.
700K would be ~~90% of the revised Forrester value; triple would be
2.1M ("<3M"), triple again would be 6.3M; pretty close to Munster's.
Munster's 1.6M actual for 2007 seems out of whack (high), though,
since that would triple to 4.8M, and the second tripling would take it
to twice that of Munster's current 6.6M prediction.
In any event, these various scenarios tell us that the number of ATVs
sold is bracketed within (400K+1.2M+3.6M = 5.2M) to (700K+2.1M+6.3M
= 9M) to (800K+2.4M+7.2M = 10.4M) ... any way that you want to cut it,
these numbers clearly exceed the IIRC similarly estimated ~1M Windows
Tablet sales.
So feel free to pick whichever you want to use as your benchmark for a
marketplace "failure". Specifically, if its the Apple TV, then the
Windows Tablet is an even bigger loser, which means that using that as
the benchmark for what the iPad is expected to do better than is a
very low bar to exceed.
But as I said - - please do feel free to actually go do your own damn
research ... and "show your work".
-hh
PS:
FWIW, I do find it somewhat curious as to why Apple has been so coy
regarding the ATV "hobby". My personal hunch is that they're waiting
(stuck?) to get a few key contracts in place with the media, and a
linchpin on these negotiations is probably a certain minimum threshold
of units to make some aspect of the business plan viable (ie, revenue
through advertising?). A threshold could say, for example, be either
an installed base in excess of 10M units (probably pretty close
today), or annual sales in excess of 10M units (probably still six
months to a year away). Until then, we're probably not likely to hear
clear sales volume numbers, even though its clear from these
conference call statements from Tim Cook that they're trying to get
the word out on the opportunity while not laying down their hand for
everyone to see. Logically, the latter is probably because for them
to reveal the market opportunity would also invite additional
competition.
Steve de Mena
For those who are impatient I can sum up all of that above:
No sales numbers are available for Apple TV.
Just estimates from outsiders.
Apple saying sales have "tripled" tell us nothing if they don't tell
us what number is being tripled. I think the fact they made a vague
statement like that, instead of stating actual numbers, says it all.
Steve