Bad Clusters vs. Bad Sectors
Ant
Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same? If
so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r /f
parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a file
to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a chkdsk
(no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
Thank you in advance. :)
--
"I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find
tractors small enough to fit it." --Steven Wright
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
Rod Speed
> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same?
Nope. Sectors are what the physical drive has.
Clusters are an OS level concept, a cluster is more than one sector.
> If so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r
> /f parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
> Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a
> file to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a
> chkdsk (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
Because that stuff also has the drive itself doing reallocation of bad sectors behind its back.
Ant
So shouldn't Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk be marking bad sector then? I am
confused.
I ran the latest Windows smartctl's full test to be sure before chkdsks
and saw:
smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-2000-sp4] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce
Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 8 family
Device Model: Maxtor 6E040L0
Serial Number: E155KPHE
Firmware Version: NAR61590
User Capacity: 41,110,142,976 bytes
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Sun Oct 04 14:10:05 2009 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN
STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (1021) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 17) minutes.
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 227 221 063 Pre-fail
Always - 5662
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age
Always - 1252
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 252 252 063 Pre-fail
Always - 9
6 Read_Channel_Margin 0x0001 253 253 100 Pre-fail
Offline - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age
Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 246 240 187 Pre-fail
Always - 46978
9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 242 242 000 Old_age
Always - 863h+11m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail
Always - 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 250 250 000 Old_age
Always - 1251
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always
- 1248
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
- 2742
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
- 27
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 8157
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
Offline - 2
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 2
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 252 252 000 Old_age
Offline - 1
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0008 199 199 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 16
202 TA_Increase_Count 0x000a 253 251 000 Old_age Always
- 0
203 Run_Out_Cancel 0x000b 253 252 180 Pre-fail Always
- 38
204 Shock_Count_Write_Opern 0x000a 253 251 000 Old_age Always
- 0
205 Shock_Rate_Write_Opern 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
207 Spin_High_Current 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
208 Spin_Buzz 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
209 Offline_Seek_Performnce 0x0024 188 187 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
99 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
100 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
101 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
SMART Error Log Version: 1
Warning: ATA error count 17 inconsistent with error log pointer 5
ATA Error Count: 17 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.
Error 17 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 3871 hours (161 days + 7 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 06 67 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 6 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a267 = 40411751
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 22 67 a2 68 e2 00 04:55:32.656 READ DMA
c8 00 80 81 02 ab e1 00 04:55:32.656 READ DMA
c8 00 08 09 02 ab e1 00 04:55:32.640 READ DMA
c8 00 1e 13 ee 30 e1 00 04:55:32.640 READ DMA
c8 00 08 c5 a3 11 e1 00 04:55:32.624 READ DMA
Error 16 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1858 hours (77 days + 10 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 62 db a5 68 e2 Error: UNC 98 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a5db =
40412635
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 67 db a5 68 e2 00 00:49:20.528 READ DMA
c8 00 08 89 ae 65 e0 00 00:49:20.512 READ DMA
c8 00 0f 42 ae 65 e0 00 00:49:20.512 READ DMA
c8 00 02 d6 d4 75 e0 00 00:49:20.512 READ DMA
c8 00 03 f5 78 69 e2 00 00:49:20.512 READ DMA
Error 15 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1455 hours (60 days + 15 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 05 a8 fb 13 e0 Error: UNC 5 sectors at LBA = 0x0013fba8 = 1309608
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:55.104 READ DMA
ca 00 08 3c f4 64 e2 00 01:04:55.104 WRITE DMA
c8 00 80 d0 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:55.104 READ DMA
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:53.968 READ DMA
ca 00 80 03 de 72 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
Error 14 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1455 hours (60 days + 15 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
01 51 05 a8 fb 13 e0 Error: AMNF 5 sectors at LBA = 0x0013fba8 = 1309608
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:53.968 READ DMA
ca 00 80 03 de 72 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
ca 00 80 4b e2 70 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
ca 00 08 2c f4 64 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
c8 00 20 b0 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:53.968 READ DMA
Error 13 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1455 hours (60 days + 15 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
01 51 05 a8 fb 13 e0 Error: AMNF 5 sectors at LBA = 0x0013fba8 = 1309608
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:03:47.296 READ DMA
ca 00 08 44 f4 64 e2 00 01:03:47.280 WRITE DMA
c8 00 28 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:03:46.192 READ DMA
c8 00 08 a0 fb 13 e0 00 01:03:46.192 READ DMA
ca 00 08 2c 16 02 e0 00 01:03:46.160 WRITE DMA
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining
LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0
-
SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
The reason why I ran them because I saw this earlier today:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Disk
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7
Date: 10/3/2009
Time: 11:42:47 AM
User: N/A
Computer: DELLOPTIPLEX
Description:
The device, \Device\Harddisk0\DR0, has a bad block.
Data:
0000: 03 00 18 00 01 00 72 00 ......r.
0008: 00 00 00 00 07 00 04 c0 .......�
0010: 00 01 00 00 9c 00 00 c0 ....�..�
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 ce 44 d1 04 00 00 00 .�D�....
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0030: 00 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 ....(...
0038: 02 84 00 00 00 00 03 00 .�......
SMART results look bad for those errors. SMART said passed when I did a
quick check. I wonder if that is why Windows was feeling sluggish lately.
--
"The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal
consideration." --Michael W. Fox, Vice President, The Human Society of
the United States, The Inhumane Society, New York, 1990.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same?
>> Nope. Sectors are what the physical drive has.
>> Clusters are an OS level concept, a cluster is more than one sector.
>>> If so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk
>>> (/r /f parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old
>>> Dell Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to
>>> move a file to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000
>>> and ran a chkdsk (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
>> Because that stuff also has the drive itself doing reallocation of bad sectors behind its back.
> So shouldn't Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk be marking bad sector then?
No, because it deals with clusters, not sectors.
> I am confused.
You are indeed.
Thats quite a few reallocated sectors.
> 6 Read_Channel_Margin 0x0001 253 253 100 Pre-fail
> Offline - 0
> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 246 240 187 Pre-fail
> Always - 46978
> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 242 242 000 Old_age
> Always - 863h+11m
> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail
> Always - 0
> 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail
> Always - 0
> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 250 250 000 Old_age
> Always - 1251
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always - 1248
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 2742
> 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 27
> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 8157
> 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
> Offline - 2
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age
> Offline - 2
With some more pending.
> 0008: 00 00 00 00 07 00 04 c0 .......�
> 0010: 00 01 00 00 9c 00 00 c0 ....�..�
> 0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> 0020: 00 ce 44 d1 04 00 00 00 .�D�....
> 0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> 0030: 00 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 ....(...
> 0038: 02 84 00 00 00 00 03 00 .�......
> SMART results look bad for those errors.
Particularly the reallocated sectors.
> SMART said passed when I did a quick check.
I ignore that stuff and concentrate on the raw values.
> I wonder if that is why Windows was feeling sluggish lately.
Likely retrying on the pending sectors.
Ant
[snipped]
>> SMART results look bad for those errors.
>
> Particularly the reallocated sectors.
>
>> SMART said passed when I did a quick check.
>
> I ignore that stuff and concentrate on the raw values.
Hence, the quickie. ;)
>> I wonder if that is why Windows was feeling sluggish lately.
>
> Likely retrying on the pending sectors.
Does that mean a dying HDD and needs to replace right away? Here's the
updated SMART results after I did two chkdsks and a smartctl full test
request:
smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-2000-sp4] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce
Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 8 family
Device Model: Maxtor 6E040L0
Serial Number: E155KPHE
Firmware Version: NAR61590
User Capacity: 41,110,142,976 bytes
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Sun Oct 04 16:43:43 2009 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN
STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 116) The previous self-test completed
having
the read element of the test failed.
6 Read_Channel_Margin 0x0001 253 253 100 Pre-fail
Offline - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age
Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 246 240 187 Pre-fail
Always - 41311
9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 242 242 000 Old_age
Always - 865h+43m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail
Always - 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 250 250 000 Old_age
Always - 1251
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always
- 1248
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
- 2746
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
- 26
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 8300
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
Offline - 2
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 2
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
Offline - 2
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0008 199 199 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 8
202 TA_Increase_Count 0x000a 253 251 000 Old_age Always
- 0
203 Run_Out_Cancel 0x000b 253 252 180 Pre-fail Always
- 29
204 Shock_Count_Write_Opern 0x000a 253 251 000 Old_age Always
- 0
205 Shock_Rate_Write_Opern 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
207 Spin_High_Current 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
208 Spin_Buzz 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
- 0
209 Offline_Seek_Performnce 0x0024 188 187 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
99 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
100 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
101 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
SMART Error Log Version: 1
Warning: ATA error count 19 inconsistent with error log pointer 5
ATA Error Count: 19 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.
Error 19 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 3881 hours (161 days + 17
hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 01 83 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 1 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a283 = 40411779
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 01 83 a2 68 e2 00 02:14:10.592 READ DMA
c8 00 01 82 a2 68 e2 00 02:14:10.592 READ DMA
c8 00 01 81 a2 68 e2 00 02:14:10.592 READ DMA
c8 00 01 80 a2 68 e2 00 02:14:10.592 READ DMA
c8 00 01 7f a2 68 e2 00 02:14:10.592 READ DMA
Error 18 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 3881 hours (161 days + 17
hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 06 67 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 6 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a267 = 40411751
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 22 67 a2 68 e2 00 02:14:09.264 READ DMA
c8 00 1e 13 ee 30 e1 00 02:14:09.248 READ DMA
c8 00 1f f1 15 30 e1 00 02:14:09.248 READ DMA
c8 00 1e 2f a8 27 e1 00 02:14:09.232 READ DMA
c8 00 1f da e7 23 e1 00 02:14:09.232 READ DMA
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining
LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offline Completed: read failure 40% 3882
49793
# 2 Extended offline Interrupted (host reset) 70% 3881
-
# 3 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0
-
SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
I am currently backing up my client's important datas right now to my
USB external HDD since it appears to be dying from what the results and
you're saying (not surprised from an old PC and HDD). :(
--
"The foreign policy aim of ants can be summed up as follows: restless
aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal annihilation of
neighboring colonies whenever possible. If ants had nuclear weapons,
they would probably end the world in a week." --Journey to the Ants,
page 59. Bert Holldobler & Edward O. Wilson
Franc Zabkar
to keyboard and composed:
>Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
>ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
>UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 252 252 063 Pre-fail
>Always - 9
>196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
>Offline - 2
>197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age
>Offline - 2
>198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
>Offline - 2
>201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always
> - 8
The above attributes indicate read problems.
>SMART Error Log Version: 1
> After command completion occurred, registers were:
> ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
> -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> 40 51 01 83 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 1 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a283 = 40411779
> After command completion occurred, registers were:
> ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
> -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> 40 51 06 67 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 6 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a267 = 40411751
I'd identify the file(s) that occupies sector # 40411779 and sectors
40411751 through 40411757. You can then delete the file and replace it
with a backup copy. This should free up those sectors/clusters
occupied by the file. The next time Windows tries to write to the bad
sectors, the drive will retest them and then most likely remap them.
If you don't have a backup, then you can try to recover as much of the
file as possible using Bad Block Copy (see below).
The Win2K OEM support tools contain a utility named nfi.exe which
identifies the file that occupies a particular sector:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win2000srv/utility/3.0/nt45/en-us/oem3sr2.zip
Nfi.exe also works on Win XP and 2003.
See these articles for more information:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=1MsZg8-0catai0%40fwd07.aul.t-online.de
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/253066/en-us
The Linux instructions are here:
http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html
Bad Block Copy is a Windows command-line tool that recovers data from
damaged media:
http://alter.org.ua/en/soft/win/bb_recover/
"Copies file ignoring Bad Blocks. If target file doesn't exist,
instead of unread blocks, ZEROs are written. If target file exists,
its blocks, corresponding to Bad Blocks in source are not touched.
Thus, if you have some copies of the same file with Bad Blocks in
different places, it is possible to completely restore the original
file. To do this you should run bbcopy.exe with same target, but
different sources."
You can also fill unreadable parts with '** BAD BLOCK ***.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> SMART results look bad for those errors.
>> Particularly the reallocated sectors.
>>> SMART said passed when I did a quick check.
>> I ignore that stuff and concentrate on the raw values.
> Hence, the quickie. ;)
That was a comment on your 'said passed'
>>> I wonder if that is why Windows was feeling sluggish lately.
>> Likely retrying on the pending sectors.
> Does that mean a dying HDD
The number of reallocated and pending is getting up quite high.
> and needs to replace right away?
I would, since its a Maxtor. They can go pear
shaped very quickly once they start to die.
That hasnt changed and is the most important one.
> 6 Read_Channel_Margin 0x0001 253 253 100 Pre-fail
> Offline - 0
> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 246 240 187 Pre-fail
> Always - 41311
> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 242 242 000 Old_age
> Always - 865h+43m
> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail
> Always - 0
> 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail
> Always - 0
> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 250 250 000 Old_age
> Always - 1251
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always - 1248
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 2746
> 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 26
Thats quite acceptible, Maxtors dont like running hot.
> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 8300
> 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
> Offline - 2
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age
> Offline - 2
That hasnt changed either.
> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 251 251 000 Old_age
> Offline - 2
That one has gained an extra one.
Yes, thats what you should be doing.
> from what the results and you're saying (not surprised from an old PC and HDD). :(
Whoops, just noticed its a Maxtor. You into necrophilia ?
Arno
> Hello!
> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same?
They are not. Sector are the storage unit of the
underlying storage device, while clusters are the Microsoft
filesystem block sizes. Clusters are typically
a multiple of the sector size (512 Bytes for HDDs and 2048
Bytes for some optical media).
> If
> so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r /f
> parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
> Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a file
> to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a chkdsk
> (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
Well, a bad cluster is usually a cluster marked bad in the
filesystem This is a leftover artefact from the time when
HDDs diod expose their bad areas to the OS. Typically a
cluster gets marked bad if one or more sectors in it
experience a read error.
A HDD only marks a sector as bad when it cannot by extended
effoprt read that sector. However it will still try to read
it on a new request from the OS and it will not export that
marking to the OS, except in the SMART selftest log and there
only for the first found one. What the marking by the HDD is
for is to allow it to reallocated (replace with a good one)
the sector on a write.
So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
Arno
Ant
>> I am currently backing up my client's important datas right now to my USB external HDD since it appears to be dying
>
> Yes, thats what you should be doing.
>
>> from what the results and you're saying (not surprised from an old PC and HDD). :(
>
> Whoops, just noticed its a Maxtor. You into necrophilia ?
I didn't buy and install the HDD. Someone else did and it's old since it
came with Windows 2000 SP4, Novell, Epoocrates, an internal zip drive, a
CD-RW burner drive, etc. Sheesh! I am just diagnosing the issues (good
thing Windows 2000 SP4's event log said something about the HDD) and
backing up for my client. ;)
--
"He who storms in like a whirlwind returns like an ant." --Borneo
Ant
[snipped]
> So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
> while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
Thanks! That makes more sense to me now. I did notice the updated
Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk /r /f said it found a bad cluster (think it
was TIF file but can't remember and didn't watch the long chkdsk --
wished it had logging feature or paused to tell me the results before
going back to Windows) and fixed it (moved it). Then, I did a normal
chkdsk.exe in Windows 2000 session's cmd.exe but it didn't show any bad
sectors (0 KB). I was confused there.
--
"What do ants and bees use for cattle?" --Tom
Yousuf Khan
> Hello!
>
> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same? If
> so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r /f
> parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
> Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a file
> to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a chkdsk
> (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
A sector is an organization system at the hardware level (at one time
these used to be called the BIOS level rather than the hardware level),
whereas a cluster was an organization unit used by the OS level. Usually
a cluster was a multiple of the sector size. If a sector is 512-bytes
then the cluster would've been 4 or 8 times that size, or any number
really.
When you get a bad sector, it's usually the drive itself that is
noticing the fault and fixing it itself. This is done quietly in the
background, the drive itself reallocates a bad sector to a spare good
sector, by copying all of the data over to the spare. Usually you won't
see any OS level bad cluster reallocation unless the drive itself has
run out of spare sectors. That's when the OS gets involved. If you're
run out of spare sectors, then the drive is probably near death already.
Yousuf Khan
Rod Speed
> Ant wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the
>> same? If so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's
>> chkdsk (/r /f parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in
>> an old Dell Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able
>> to move a file to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000
>> and ran a chkdsk (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
>>
>> Thank you in advance. :)
>
> A sector is an organization system at the hardware level (at one time
> these used to be called the BIOS level rather than the hardware
> level), whereas a cluster was an organization unit used by the OS
> level. Usually a cluster was a multiple of the sector size. If a
> sector is 512-bytes then the cluster would've been 4 or 8 times that
> size, or any number really.
> When you get a bad sector, it's usually the drive itself that is
> noticing the fault and fixing it itself. This is done quietly in the
> background, the drive itself reallocates a bad sector to a spare good sector, by copying all of the data over to the
> spare.
The drive never does that. The most it ever does is mark it as pending
and then reallocates the bad sector on the next write to that sector.
> Usually you won't see any OS level bad cluster reallocation unless the drive itself has run out of spare sectors.
Thats wrong too. You also see that when the bad sector
is not written to again and the OS sees that its bad.
> That's when the OS gets involved.
Fraid not.
> If you're run out of spare sectors, then the drive is probably near death already.
Yes, but you cant assume that its run out of bad sectors
just because the OS has marked a cluster as bad.
Ant
>> So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
>> while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
>
> Thanks! That makes more sense to me now. I did notice the updated
> Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk /r /f said it found a bad cluster (think it
> was TIF file but can't remember and didn't watch the long chkdsk --
> wished it had logging feature or paused to tell me the results before
> going back to Windows) and fixed it (moved it). Then, I did a normal
> chkdsk.exe in Windows 2000 session's cmd.exe but it didn't show any bad
> sectors (0 KB). I was confused there.
Is bad block same as bad cluster (OS side)?
--
"Thanks for giving me the courage to eat all those ants." --unknown
Rod Speed
> Ant wrote
>>> So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
>>> while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
>> Thanks! That makes more sense to me now. I did notice the updated
>> Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk /r /f said it found a bad cluster (think it
>> was TIF file but can't remember and didn't watch the long chkdsk --
>> wished it had logging feature or paused to tell me the results before
>> going back to Windows) and fixed it (moved it). Then, I did a normal
>> chkdsk.exe in Windows 2000 session's cmd.exe but it didn't show any
>> bad sectors (0 KB). I was confused there.
> Is bad block same as bad cluster (OS side)?
Yes. Is mostly MS OSs that call them clusters.
Ant
Ah OK. I guess there was no bad sector then on that old HDD then.
--
"When many work together for a goal, great things may be accomplished.
It is said a lion cub was killed by a single colony of ants." --Saskya
Pandita
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
>>>>> while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
>>>> Thanks! That makes more sense to me now. I did notice the updated
>>>> Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk /r /f said it found a bad cluster (think
>>>> it was TIF file but can't remember and didn't watch the long
>>>> chkdsk -- wished it had logging feature or paused to tell me the
>>>> results before going back to Windows) and fixed it (moved it).
>>>> Then, I did a normal chkdsk.exe in Windows 2000 session's cmd.exe
>>>> but it didn't show any bad sectors (0 KB). I was confused there.
>>> Is bad block same as bad cluster (OS side)?
>> Yes. Is mostly MS OSs that call them clusters.
> Ah OK. I guess there was no bad sector then on that old HDD then.
Or there was a bad sector and the drive fixed it.
Ant
If there was a bad sector, wouldn't I see a bad sector shown in chkdsk?
Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
--
"He who runs from the white ant may stumble upon the stinging ant."
--Nigeria
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
>>>>>>> while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
>>>>>> Thanks! That makes more sense to me now. I did notice the updated
>>>>>> Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk /r /f said it found a bad cluster
>>>>>> (think it was TIF file but can't remember and didn't watch the
>>>>>> long chkdsk -- wished it had logging feature or paused to tell
>>>>>> me the results before going back to Windows) and fixed it (moved
>>>>>> it). Then, I did a normal chkdsk.exe in Windows 2000 session's
>>>>>> cmd.exe but it didn't show any bad sectors (0 KB). I was
>>>>>> confused there.
>>>>> Is bad block same as bad cluster (OS side)?
>>>> Yes. Is mostly MS OSs that call them clusters.
>>> Ah OK. I guess there was no bad sector then on that old HDD then.
>> Or there was a bad sector and the drive fixed it.
> If there was a bad sector, wouldn't I see a bad sector shown in chkdsk?
Not necessarily. They arent necessarily always bad for every read.
> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
Its completely useless now.
The only thing that makes any sense anymore is the SMART data.
Arno
> On 10/5/2009 12:02 AM PT, Ant typed:
>>> So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
>>> while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
>>
>> Thanks! That makes more sense to me now. I did notice the updated
>> Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk /r /f said it found a bad cluster (think it
>> was TIF file but can't remember and didn't watch the long chkdsk --
>> wished it had logging feature or paused to tell me the results before
>> going back to Windows) and fixed it (moved it). Then, I did a normal
>> chkdsk.exe in Windows 2000 session's cmd.exe but it didn't show any bad
>> sectors (0 KB). I was confused there.
> Is bad block same as bad cluster (OS side)?
Not quite. Low level there are no clusters. And high-level (filesystem)
a bad cluster is a cluster (e.g. 4kB) with a bad sector in it (512B)
Arno
Ant
>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>
> Its completely useless now.
Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
> The only thing that makes any sense anymore is the SMART data.
--
"It is said that the lonely eagle flies to the mountain peaks while the
lowly ant crawls the ground, but cannot the soul of the ant soar as high
as the eagle?" --unknown
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>> Its completely useless now.
> Really? How so?
What it claims to be doing isnt even possible with modern hard drives.
> I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
A SMART scan does that much better.
Arno
> On 10/12/2009 12:00 PM PT, Rod Speed typed:
>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>>
>> Its completely useless now.
> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than
a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its
justification. Today it has none.
Arno
Ant
> Ant wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>
>>> Its completely useless now.
>
>> Really? How so?
>
> What it claims to be doing isnt even possible with modern hard drives.
How old were the the modern HDDs started? I can't remember when SMART
started. I think my former Quantum Fireball 6.4 GB EIDE HDD had a simple
SMART.
>> I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
>
> A SMART scan does that much better.
OK.
--
"Above ground I shall be food for kites; below I shall be food for
mole-crickets and ants. Why rob one to feed the other?" --Juang-zu (4th
Century B.C.)
Ant
>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>>> Its completely useless now.
>
>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
>
> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than
> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its
> justification. Today it has none.
OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough
to find them.
--
"What reason, like the careful ant, draws laboriously together, the wind
of accident sometimes collects in a moment." --Friedrich von Schiller
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ant wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>>>> Its completely useless now.
>>> Really? How so?
>> What it claims to be doing isnt even possible with modern hard drives.
> How old were the the modern HDDs started?
The last time what it claims to be able to do was possible was
with stepper motor head actuator drives, mostly MFM and RLL
and a very few of the first IDEs.
> I can't remember when SMART started.
That varied with the manufacturer.
> I think my former Quantum Fireball 6.4 GB EIDE HDD had a simple SMART.
Yeah, most of that era did.
Arno
> On 10/13/2009 6:41 AM PT, Arno typed:
>>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>>>> Its completely useless now.
>>
>>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
>>
>> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than
>> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its
>> justification. Today it has none.
> OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough
> to find them.
I believe so. I have done this repeatedly on several disks with problems
and the results were basically the same. One critial difference between
now and the time when SpinRiste made sense is that modern disks read
the signal in analog form while old disks did immerdiately convert
the signal to 1/0. Analog reads allow a much better signal quality
assessment, and hence assesment of the margin between the signal read
and one that would result in a non-recoverable sector. This way
marginal sectors can be flagged as bad before there are actual read
errors. Hostorically, this required the tricks SpinRite did, but
not anymore.
Arno
Ant
>>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>>>> Its completely useless now.
>>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
>> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than
>> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its
>> justification. Today it has none.
> OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough
> to find them.
I was reading SpinRite's FAQ (http://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm) and
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite):
"Does SpinRite support hard drive SMART capability? Yes. SpinRite
supports SMART more completely and usefully than anything else ever has.
Upon first use, SpinRite activates and enables a drive's disabled SMART
subsystem. When SpinRite is not actively running on the drive, the
"static" state of the drive's SMART data is displayed. When SpinRite is
running on a drive, the drive's SMART data � both the standard SMART
parameters and the more detailed SMART event counters � are continuously
polled, monitored, and displayed. Much more useful information about the
true health and robustness of a drive can be gained by monitoring the
SMART system's feedback while the drive is under an actual workload. No
other software has ever done this.
Note: Some default SATA configurations can limit SpinRite's ability to
obtain SMART information from SATA drives even though all other data
recovery operations will work without limitation. See the SATA
knowledgebase article for specific information about SpinRite v6.0's
operation with SATA drives and controllers."
"... Version 6 is rather different from previous versions. It offers
full access to the entire disk surface regardless of partitioning,
Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (SMART) parameters
and control of partial scanning within a specified percentage range..."
It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful. Am I missing something?
--
"The constant creeping of ants will wear away the stone." --unknown
Rod Speed
> Ant wrote
>>>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>>>>> Its completely useless now.
>>>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
>>> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than
>>> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its
>>> justification. Today it has none.
>> OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough to find them.
> I was reading SpinRite's FAQ (http://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm) and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite):
> "Does SpinRite support hard drive SMART capability? Yes. SpinRite supports SMART more completely and usefully than
> anything else ever has.
Another bare faced lie.
> Upon first use, SpinRite activates and enables a drive's disabled SMART subsystem. When SpinRite is not actively
> running on the drive, the "static" state of the drive's SMART data is displayed.
> When SpinRite is running on a drive, the drive's SMART data � both
> the standard SMART parameters and the more detailed SMART event
> counters � are continuously polled, monitored, and displayed.
> Much more useful information about the true health and robustness of a drive can be gained by monitoring the SMART
> system's feedback while the drive is under an actual workload. No other software has ever done this.
Another bare faced lie.
And it doesnt change enough to matter anyway.
> Note: Some default SATA configurations can limit SpinRite's ability to obtain SMART information from SATA drives even
> though all other data recovery operations will work without limitation. See the SATA
> knowledgebase article for specific information about SpinRite v6.0's
> operation with SATA drives and controllers."
> "... Version 6 is rather different from previous versions. It offers full access to the entire disk surface regardless
> of partitioning,
So does any SMART tool, fool.
> Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (SMART) parameters
> and control of partial scanning within a specified percentage range..."
Meaningless waffle.
> It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful.
Nope.
> Am I missing something?
Yep, that its not doing anything that any SMART tool isnt doing.
Arno
> On 10/13/2009 10:29 PM PT, Ant typed:
>>>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later.
>>>>> Its completely useless now.
>>>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors.
>>> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than
>>> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its
>>> justification. Today it has none.
>> OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough
>> to find them.
> I was reading SpinRite's FAQ (http://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm) and
> Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite):
> "Does SpinRite support hard drive SMART capability? Yes. SpinRite
> supports SMART more completely and usefully than anything else ever has.
A direct lie.
> Upon first use, SpinRite activates and enables a drive's disabled SMART
> subsystem.
Yes, I do that manually. HDDsentinel does it. Linux smartd does it.
Speedfan does it. Other tools do it too.
> When SpinRite is not actively running on the drive, the
> "static" state of the drive's SMART data is displayed. When SpinRite is
> running on a drive, the drive's SMART data ? both the standard SMART
> parameters and the more detailed SMART event counters ? are continuously
> polled, monitored, and displayed.
So what? Nobody neds that. It is far better to have change-monitoring
for the critical attributes than to manually have to look at a
continuously updated display. If you really want it, many tools
allow you to do this.
> Much more useful information about the
> true health and robustness of a drive can be gained by monitoring the
> SMART system's feedback while the drive is under an actual workload. No
> other software has ever done this.
Another direct lie.
> Note: Some default SATA configurations can limit SpinRite's ability to
> obtain SMART information from SATA drives even though all other data
> recovery operations will work without limitation. See the SATA
> knowledgebase article for specific information about SpinRite v6.0's
> operation with SATA drives and controllers."
> "... Version 6 is rather different from previous versions. It offers
> full access to the entire disk surface regardless of partitioning,
> Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (SMART) parameters
> and control of partial scanning within a specified percentage range..."
> It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful. Am I missing something?
Yes. These people have abandoned all atempts at honesty. I do not
say their tool is useless, but it is not better than the
alternatives.
Incidentially several other tools will run regular surface
scans, and they are critical for early problem detection.
Arno
Yousuf Khan
> It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful. Am I missing something?
A lot of SpinRite's claims are simply marketing. That's all you're missing.
Yousuf Khan
Arno
> Yousuf Khan
Good summary.
Arno
Ant
> Incidentially several other tools will run regular surface
> scans, and they are critical for early problem detection.
Thanks. Does Smartctl's long tests do surface scans?
--
"Ant colonies are remarkably similar to cities. No one choreographs the
action, not even the queen ant, but ant behavior is controlled by swarm
logic--put 10,000 dumb ants together, and they become smart. They will
calculate the shortest routes to food supplies sniffing out pheromone
signals from other ants and Johnson says people do the same thing in
cities using low-level interactions of people on the street." --Alex
Cukan, "Stories of modern science," United Press International, October
8, 2001
Ant
Thanks all. Someone should update Wikipedia's datas too.
--
"Ant colonies are remarkably similar to cities. No one choreographs the
action, not even the queen ant, but ant behavior is controlled by swarm
logic--put 10,000 dumb ants together, and they become smart. They will
calculate the shortest routes to food supplies sniffing out pheromone
signals from other ants and Johnson says people do the same thing in
cities using low-level interactions of people on the street." --Alex
Cukan, "Stories of modern science," United Press International, October
8, 2001
Arno
> On 10/18/2009 4:04 PM PT, Arno typed:
>> Incidentially several other tools will run regular surface
>> scans, and they are critical for early problem detection.
> Thanks. Does Smartctl's long tests do surface scans?
Yes. I meant you can shedule them to run automatically at set
intervalls. Smartctl cannot do that, but the smartd in the
same package can and at least n Debian does as default.
Arno
bbbl67
> Thanks all. Someone should update Wikipedia's datas too.
Ouch! It looks like there is a war going on within that Wiki article's
talk section. Almost as bad as any war that goes on in here. :-)
Yousuf Khan
Arno
> Yousuf Khan
I am staying out of that. Some people just want to believe
in the snake-oil. Typically not those that actually understand
what a product does.
Arno
Ant
Interesting. Can I run it as not a daemon and do it all at once when I
am not using the computer? Sort of like running chkdsk /f /r type of thing.
--
"Ants are so much like human beings as to be an embarrassment. They farm
fungi, raise aphids as livestock, launch armies into wars, use chemical
sprays to alarm and confuse enemies, capture slaves. The families of
weaver ants engage in child labor, holding their larvae like shuttles to
spin out the thread that sews the leaves together for their fungus
gardens. They exchange information ceaselessly. They do everything but
watch television." --Lewis Thomas
Arno
> On 10/19/2009 9:54 AM PT, Arno typed:
>> Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote:
>>> On 10/18/2009 4:04 PM PT, Arno typed:
>>
>>>> Incidentially several other tools will run regular surface
>>>> scans, and they are critical for early problem detection.
>>
>>> Thanks. Does Smartctl's long tests do surface scans?
>>
>> Yes. I meant you can shedule them to run automatically at set
>> intervalls. Smartctl cannot do that, but the smartd in the
>> same package can and at least n Debian does as default.
> Interesting. Can I run it as not a daemon and do it all at once when I
> am not using the computer? Sort of like running chkdsk /f /r type of thing.
If you want to run the surface scan manually, just use
smartctl -t long <device>
Arno
Ant
>>>>> Incidentially several other tools will run regular surface
>>>>> scans, and they are critical for early problem detection.
>>>> Thanks. Does Smartctl's long tests do surface scans?
>>> Yes. I meant you can shedule them to run automatically at set
>>> intervalls. Smartctl cannot do that, but the smartd in the
>>> same package can and at least n Debian does as default.
>> Interesting. Can I run it as not a daemon and do it all at once when I
>> am not using the computer? Sort of like running chkdsk /f /r type of thing.
> If you want to run the surface scan manually, just use
> smartctl -t long <device>
Um, I did mention that earlier "Does Smartctl's long tests do surface
scans?". ;) Thanks though.
--
"I killed an ant, now all my relatives are afraid of me." --unknown