[49G]: Revival of the Wishlist
Rahul Horé
having a wishlist for the HP 49G, but I guess the only way to find out
is to post a semi-updated version. I have separated and starred those
items that have been (partly) taken care of (with carriage returns) by
either the 49G development team or independent programmers. Here is
the list (note that it is categorized, but not yet prioritized):
Wishlist for HP 49G RPN programmable graphing calculator
A. Computer Algebra System
1. *Z and Fourier transforms and their inverses--(Z transforms, I
believe,can be solved by Neopolys 8.1 by Apolonio Francisco Gonzalez
Herrero; correct?)*
2. support for integral and integro-differential equations
3. support for partial differential equations
4. *arbitrary precision floating point math--(Werner Huysegoms was
working on adding this ability to the 49G; I'm not sure if he's still
involved/interested in the project)*
5. *the rest of the special functions (lngamma, bessels, beta, error,
spherical harmonics, zeta, etc.)--(Steven Ahlig's Bessel 1.2 gives us
some of this functionality)*
6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
(A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
7. symbolic/numeric products
8. vector calculus commands sensitive to the coordinate setting
9. vector (and complex) calculus commands using overriding/current
angle units
10. complex solver using units (MSLV using units)
11. *some kind of auto-simplify function (controlled by a
flag)--(Steen Schmidt has written AutoSimp49 1.1, if anyone is
interested)*
12. more (specialized) rewriting tools
13. advanced (linear) solver to handle non (linear) rational cases AND
Wlamberts
14. symbolic tensor algebra
15. Heaviside step & Dirac delta as "ordinary" functions
16. support for generalized hypergeometric functions
17. more "Special Numbers" (Stirling Numbers, etc.)
18. implementation and full integration of INTEGERASSUME
19. ability to work with and solve recurrence relations
20. extending FACTORMOD to full factorization rather than square-free
only
21. implementation of the Zeilberger algorithm in summation command
22. bring back XFRC for converting floats to quadratic irrationals
23. the ability to work with continued fractions (kind of like CFR by
Joe Horn)
24. if possible, implement faster, yet full precision, numerical
integration
25. symbolic LU factorization
B. Graphics/Plotting -- (for this section, the only major improvement
in this area that I can recall is the release of Jurjen N.E. Bos'
HLDRAW 2.6 that gives us fast, 3D wireframe plotting with hidden line
removal; please tell me if I'm missing anything else significant)
1. a generally faster plotter (for all graphs) with User Mark setting
(grob)
2. combination of the wireframe plotter with the fast-3D plotter
3. optimization of the parametric surface plotter (P.S.P.)
4. possible combination of the P.S.P. with the fast-3D plotter
5. fast hidden-line removal algorithm
6. implicit plots
7. auto-setting of z-coordinates in the window parameters for 3D
plots.
8. in the PICTURE environment, a way of slowing down the movement of
the cursor
C. Non-CAS Math (Statistics, Finance, Science, etc.)
1. *more built-in curve-fitting options (including user-defined
functions)--(Steven Ahlig's Moda 1.52 is an excellent tool for this)*
2. advanced statistical functions: MEAN, Q1, Q4, RELERROR, WMEAN
3. advanced financial solver: cashflows, bonds, compound interest,
etc. (19BIII)
4. bring back EQNLIB and enhance it with a user tailoring
ability--(many EQNLIBs exist as add-ons; maybe this is something that
does not need to be officially added to the ROM--opinions?)
D. Operating System
1. *textbook display for more calculus functions--(we have textbook
display for limits and exp as of 1.19-6; perhaps indefinite
integration, Laplace transforms, etc. should be next?)*
2. fractions (as a display mode)
3. thousands separator for all display modes (including integers)
4. CHOOSE submenus
5. TMENU using shift & hold levels
6. ability to use hold-right/left shift keys in all calculator
environments
7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
protection)
10. full hiding capabilities in FILER integrated--(has this been
implemented?)
11. bring back STAT soft key menu much like RS-hold + 9 (soft key TIME
menu)
E. Editor and Debugger -- (here's the place that I know the least
about; in my opinion we are very fortunate that we have EMACS to work
with as many of these items can be taken care of by that; also JAZZ is
available for debugging purposes and much more, but I'm not too sure
if it is fully functional yet)
1. clever reintroduction of interruption handler in ObEdit command
2. RPLCPL used as replacement for CAT key
3. ability to create link to HALT command in editor mode as it is
deep in menu
4. increase practicality of FIND option
5. generally, a more intelligent editor like in JAZZ or EMACS
6. a built-in SysRPL/Assembly debugger just as we have one for User
RPL
As you can see we have a pretty lengthy list, albeit a good deal of
our goals for this calculator have already been attained. To me, this
shows great promise for the HP 49G in the future as well. As I always
say, please, if you have time, discuss some of these entries as it may
give the HP 49G development team a better picture of what priorities
the users of this calculator have in mind (for example, in the CAS
section, describe what special functions are most needed and why).
I'm not sure of the situation, but as far as I know, there is about
30K left for CAS improvements, and the rest for general improvements
(minus what we got in 1.19-6). I'm not sure about the general
consensus, but if the 49G team decides to continue improving this
already wonderful product, I would not mind sacrificing another user
bank (other opinions on this matter?). I cannot possibly do justice
to this list all by myself, but I will help in any way I can. If you
have more ideas, please send me an e-mail (or, even better, respond to
this thread) and I will add (or subtract, if that be the case) them to
(from) the list. I hope to hear your comments/opinions soon.
a satisfied user of the HP 49G,
--Rahul Horé
Thomas Rast
>
> B. Graphics/Plotting -- (for this section, the only major improvement
> in this area that I can recall is the release of Jurjen N.E. Bos'
> HLDRAW 2.6 that gives us fast, 3D wireframe plotting with hidden line
> removal; please tell me if I'm missing anything else significant)
> 8. in the PICTURE environment, a way of slowing down the movement of
> the cursor
Hit +. The coordinate display refreshing will slow it a bit.
Thomas
--
Thomas Rast "If you cannot convince them,
t.r...@iname.com confuse them."
ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman
Nick Karagiaouroglou
> Hello, everyone. I don't know if people are still interested in
> having a wishlist for the HP 49G, but I guess the only way to find out
> is to post a semi-updated version. I have separated and starred those
> items that have been (partly) taken care of (with carriage returns) by
> either the 49G development team or independent programmers. Here is
> the list (note that it is categorized, but not yet prioritized):
>
> Wishlist for HP 49G RPN programmable graphing calculator
>
> A. Computer Algebra System
>
> 1. *Z and Fourier transforms and their inverses--(Z transforms, I
> believe,can be solved by Neopolys 8.1 by Apolonio Francisco Gonzalez
> Herrero; correct?)*
>
> 2. support for integral and integro-differential equations
Vote for that.
> 3. support for partial differential equations
Yes, yes, arrrfff!
> 4. *arbitrary precision floating point math--(Werner Huysegoms was
> working on adding this ability to the 49G; I'm not sure if he's still
> involved/interested in the project)*
Oh well, don't find that really necessary.
> 5. *the rest of the special functions (lngamma, bessels, beta, error,
> spherical harmonics, zeta, etc.)--(Steven Ahlig's Bessel 1.2 gives us
> some of this functionality)*
Spherical harmonics would be fine!
> 6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
> (A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
Well, one can easily define them as user functions.
> 7. symbolic/numeric products
> 8. vector calculus commands sensitive to the coordinate setting
That would be wonderful, but I think that those commands would let you
wait a long time, if the expressions you work with are not so simple.
Anyway, if possible, I am for it.
> 9. vector (and complex) calculus commands using overriding/current
> angle units
Well, rad is just fine for me.
> 10. complex solver using units (MSLV using units)
Hurrraaahhhhh!
> 11. *some kind of auto-simplify function (controlled by a
> flag)--(Steen Schmidt has written AutoSimp49 1.1, if anyone is
> interested)*
Perhaps it would be better to work on the already available command
SIMPLIFY and make it better ?
> 12. more (specialized) rewriting tools
> 13. advanced (linear) solver to handle non (linear) rational cases AND
> Wlamberts
> 14. symbolic tensor algebra
Yes!!!!!!!!!
> 15. Heaviside step & Dirac delta as "ordinary" functions
Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 16. support for generalized hypergeometric functions
Ditto!
> 17. more "Special Numbers" (Stirling Numbers, etc.)
> 18. implementation and full integration of INTEGERASSUME
That would be very useful.
> 19. ability to work with and solve recurrence relations
Ditto.
> 20. extending FACTORMOD to full factorization rather than square-free
> only
> 21. implementation of the Zeilberger algorithm in summation command
Another fine idea.
> 22. bring back XFRC for converting floats to quadratic irrationals
> 23. the ability to work with continued fractions (kind of like CFR by
> Joe Horn)
> 24. if possible, implement faster, yet full precision, numerical
> integration
> 25. symbolic LU factorization
>
> B. Graphics/Plotting -- (for this section, the only major improvement
> in this area that I can recall is the release of Jurjen N.E. Bos'
> HLDRAW 2.6 that gives us fast, 3D wireframe plotting with hidden line
> removal; please tell me if I'm missing anything else significant)
>
> 1. a generally faster plotter (for all graphs) with User Mark setting
> (grob)
> 2. combination of the wireframe plotter with the fast-3D plotter
Yes, for me this is a must.
> 3. optimization of the parametric surface plotter (P.S.P.)
> 4. possible combination of the P.S.P. with the fast-3D plotter
> 5. fast hidden-line removal algorithm
> 6. implicit plots
> 7. auto-setting of z-coordinates in the window parameters for 3D
> plots.
> 8. in the PICTURE environment, a way of slowing down the movement of
> the cursor
Could perhaps a density plot be added in the wish list?
> C. Non-CAS Math (Statistics, Finance, Science, etc.)
>
> 1. *more built-in curve-fitting options (including user-defined
> functions)--(Steven Ahlig's Moda 1.52 is an excellent tool for this)*
Yep! :-)
> 2. advanced statistical functions: MEAN, Q1, Q4, RELERROR, WMEAN
> 3. advanced financial solver: cashflows, bonds, compound interest,
> etc. (19BIII)
> 4. bring back EQNLIB and enhance it with a user tailoring
> ability--(many EQNLIBs exist as add-ons; maybe this is something that
> does not need to be officially added to the ROM--opinions?)
>
> D. Operating System
>
> 1. *textbook display for more calculus functions--(we have textbook
> display for limits and exp as of 1.19-6; perhaps indefinite
> integration, Laplace transforms, etc. should be next?)*
Would be nice, but I can live with the current textbook display.
> 2. fractions (as a display mode)
Hmmm, fractions are already displayed as fractions. What do you mean?
> 3. thousands separator for all display modes (including integers)
> 4. CHOOSE submenus
> 5. TMENU using shift & hold levels
> 6. ability to use hold-right/left shift keys in all calculator
> environments
> 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time functions
of the HP49G.
> 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
> protection)
Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
> 10. full hiding capabilities in FILER integrated--(has this been
> implemented?)
Not very important for me..
I wouldn't mind sacrificing 2 user banks more if some of these ideas
would be implemented. :-)
>I cannot possibly do justice
> to this list all by myself, but I will help in any way I can. If you
> have more ideas, please send me an e-mail (or, even better, respond to
> this thread) and I will add (or subtract, if that be the case) them to
> (from) the list. I hope to hear your comments/opinions soon.
>
> a satisfied user of the HP 49G,
> --Rahul Horé
Perhaps another idea for the CAS. Mathematica like implicite
definitions and user enhancing of built in functions?
Greetings,
Nick.
Marco Salvagno
news:698661a1.01102...@posting.google.com...
> I'm not sure of the situation, but as far as I know, there is about
> 30K left for CAS improvements, and the rest for general improvements
> (minus what we got in 1.19-6). I'm not sure about the general
> consensus, but if the 49G team decides to continue improving this
> already wonderful product, I would not mind sacrificing another user
> bank (other opinions on this matter?).
Committing new user banks to system improvements must be carefully
considered, as what you call an improvement could be "just another useless
bunch of cryptic functions" to other users.
RAM on the 49 comes not as a freely disposable resource!
Also the CATalog is already cluttered by hundreds of commands, a very
effective way to scare and confuse the average new user, while most average
users have no problems to install a new library when they have a new need,
and also they can uninstall it later if they want more space.
Your list was useful to me (it has several pointers to valuable stuff one
can install), though I grew very pessimistic towards wish lists over the
years, just because people soon start filling it with their most outrageous
desires, becoming total time wasters for any reader.
Maybe "moderating" the wish list could be a solution to this problem.
have a nice day, Rahul
Rahul Horé
> > the cursor
>
> Hit +. The coordinate display refreshing will slow it a bit.
>
> Thomas
Thanks, this is useful to know. I'll note this on the wishlist for a
while, and then probably remove the item once people are more
well-informed about it (unless people already are).
--Rahul Hore'
Rahul Horé
> considered, as what you call an improvement could be "just another useless
> bunch of cryptic functions" to other users.
So, you believe the addition of libraries is a better choice? I
believe, in a sense, this is not suitable for some things, but I do
see your point. The reason some of these things have been suggested
as additions to the ROM is that (1) it will be fully integrated into
the system, and (2) if I recall correctly, the commands will be, in
general, noticeably faster this way (please someone more knowledgeable
on the subject correct me if I'm wrong about this).
> RAM on the 49 comes not as a freely disposable resource!
>
> Also the CATalog is already cluttered by hundreds of commands, a very
> effective way to scare and confuse the average new user, while most average
> users have no problems to install a new library when they have a new need,
> and also they can uninstall it later if they want more space.
This is true. Do you think the release of optional ROMs would be a
plausible solution? Reasons for including additions to the ROM are
same as above. In an additional statement, most of what comes to us
in libraries is fine where it is (and by the way, installing libraries
add all its commands to the CATolog so your argument about cluttering
CAT with new commands is essentially flawed -- solution: use RPLCPL).
Furthermore, I would be willing to scratch off anything from the list
that people find satisfactorily implemented in a library and not
necessary to include in the ROM, e.g. a full-blown programming editor
like Emacs.
> Your list was useful to me (it has several pointers to valuable stuff one
> can install), though I grew very pessimistic towards wish lists over the
> years, just because people soon start filling it with their most outrageous
> desires, becoming total time wasters for any reader.
I'm glad it is useful to at least someone! With regards to
"outrageous desires," do you see any on my list? I agree some of them
would be difficult to implement like say, generalized hypergeometric
functions or symbolic products, but I believe most of these requests
are reasonable and would be wonderful additions to any CAS. Please,
if you see something that you don't think should be on the list, tell
me and I'll see what others think and remove it according to general
consensus. That's why I post it here--I'm looking for people's
opinions on what should be relegated to ROM and what should stay as a
library.
> Maybe "moderating" the wish list could be a solution to this problem.
This can always be debated. I believe that there was a similar debate
on this newsgroup not too long ago about moderating comp.sys.hp48
itself. I, for one, cannot say *by myself* that such and such cannot
be on the wishlist, but this and that can be. The reason for this is
simple: this is not my wishlist, but the entire HP 49G community's
wishlist. I will gladly moderate it provided that others can give me
a valid reason for removing something (note, there are things on this
list that I don't much care for, but that doesn't mean I can just
ignore them). I do not want this to be just some arbitrary list, but
a series of goals to attain to make the HP 49G calculator even better.
And my goal is to facilitate this by making sure everyone knows what
everyone else wants. Making my wishlist widely accepted, of course,
is the challenge.
> have a nice day, Rahul
Thank you very much. I enjoyed your comments thoroughly (and as you
can see by the length of this thread minus my posts, you are not the
only one who is wary of wishlists :-). If you have any further
suggestions or would like to add to the list, do not hesitate to
contact me. Thanks again, for your input.
--Rahul Hore'
Rahul Horé
[snip]
> > 4. *arbitrary precision floating point math--(Werner Huysegoms was
> > working on adding this ability to the 49G; I'm not sure if he's still
> > involved/interested in the project)*
>
> Oh well, don't find that really necessary.
Oh, come now--I've always wanted this! Okay so it's not too useful to
most, but *I* could find some uses for it. :-)
> > 5. *the rest of the special functions (lngamma, bessels, beta, error,
> > spherical harmonics, zeta, etc.)--(Steven Ahlig's Bessel 1.2 gives us
> > some of this functionality)*
>
> Spherical harmonics would be fine!
Luckily the aforementioned library has this functionality.
>
> > 6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
> > (A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
>
> Well, one can easily define them as user functions.
I agree. Do you think I should remove it from the list?
[snip]
> > 9. vector (and complex) calculus commands using overriding/current
> > angle units
>
> Well, rad is just fine for me.
Same here.
> > 10. complex solver using units (MSLV using units)
>
> Hurrraaahhhhh!
This is one of VPN's suggestions, if I'm not mistaken.
>
> > 11. *some kind of auto-simplify function (controlled by a
> > flag)--(Steen Schmidt has written AutoSimp49 1.1, if anyone is
> > interested)*
>
> Perhaps it would be better to work on the already available command
> SIMPLIFY and make it better ?
Agreed. I'm one of those that doesn't really need too much
autosimplification; it seems fine to do this on one's own, but I'm
sure there are people who disagree, so I'm not removing this from the
list just yet.
> > 12. more (specialized) rewriting tools
> > 13. advanced (linear) solver to handle non (linear) rational cases AND
> > Wlamberts
> > 14. symbolic tensor algebra
>
> Yes!!!!!!!!!
If you're responding to item 14, I believe this was Keith Farmer's
idea. I think at one time he had something of the sort implemented
for the 48. Maybe I should bug him and see if he's interested in
porting it to the 49.
[snip]
> > 1. a generally faster plotter (for all graphs) with User Mark setting
> > (grob)
> > 2. combination of the wireframe plotter with the fast-3D plotter
>
> Yes, for me this is a must.
Agreed. I suppose CdB is who we ask for this.
> Could perhaps a density plot be added in the wish list?
Sure, why not?
[snip]
> > D. Operating System
> >
> > 1. *textbook display for more calculus functions--(we have textbook
> > display for limits and exp as of 1.19-6; perhaps indefinite
> > integration, Laplace transforms, etc. should be next?)*
>
> Would be nice, but I can live with the current textbook display.
Yes. I have grown accustomed to the HP way. I'm even slightly
disappointed at using e instead of EXP in EQW!
> > 2. fractions (as a display mode)
>
> Hmmm, fractions are already displayed as fractions. What do you mean?
That's a good question. I'll have to search the archives to find out
about this. Could it refer to displaying fractions as on earlier HP
models (of which I have no idea about)?
[snip]
> > 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
>
> Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time functions
> of the HP49G.
Agreed. I'm not too wild about keeping this on the list, but I'll
leave it on for now.
> > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
> > protection)
>
> Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
> > 10. full hiding capabilities in FILER integrated--(has this been
> > implemented?)
>
> Not very important for me..
Wolfgang Rautenberg's suggestion; not terribly important to me,
either.
[snip]
> I wouldn't mind sacrificing 2 user banks more if some of these ideas
> would be implemented. :-)
I said 1 user bank just to be conservative. I have so much extra ROM
memory remaining, it's kind of ridiculous. It might as well be put to
some good use.
[snip]
> Perhaps another idea for the CAS. Mathematica like implicite
> definitions and user enhancing of built in functions?
This would certainly be nice.
> Greetings,
> Nick.
--Rahul Hore'
Marco Salvagno
> > Committing new user banks to system improvements must be carefully
> > considered, as what you call an improvement could be "just another
useless
> > bunch of cryptic functions" to other users.
> So, you believe the addition of libraries is a better choice? I
> believe, in a sense, this is not suitable for some things, but I do
> see your point.
Yes, there are things that doesn't make sense if they're not integrated in
the system; on the other hand libraries are a modular way to approach the
problem, and should be kept in consideration.
> the system, and (2) if I recall correctly, the commands will be, in
> general, noticeably faster this way (please someone more knowledgeable
> on the subject correct me if I'm wrong about this).
Sometimes libraries are more cleverly built than the built-in commands, and
achive higher performance; the choice of the algorithm in Matrix49 was
clever and it pays off for general use.
> > Also the CATalog is already cluttered by hundreds of commands, a very
> > effective way to scare and confuse the average new user, while most
average
> > users have no problems to install a new library when they have a new
need,
> > and also they can uninstall it later if they want more space.
>
> This is true. Do you think the release of optional ROMs would be a
> plausible solution?
Never heard of such a thing... what is it supposed to be?
> same as above. In an additional statement, most of what comes to us
> in libraries is fine where it is (and by the way, installing libraries
> add all its commands to the CATolog so your argument about cluttering
> CAT with new commands is essentially flawed -- solution: use RPLCPL).
I believe it's flawed: remember that the average newbie will not start
installing more libraries (thus his catalog's size will be minimum). OTOH
the average user will install what he likes and generally will have no
problems with a longer CATalog.
CAT is supposed to be a tool for newbies, and cluttering it will decrease
its usefulness.
RPLCPL is a great tool that I use everyday, when I *already* know which
command I need, or at least I remember the first letters... CAT provides a
higher point of view when I can't remember the name.
> Furthermore, I would be willing to scratch off anything from the list
> that people find satisfactorily implemented in a library and not
> necessary to include in the ROM, e.g. a full-blown programming editor
> like Emacs.
Yes that's an uttermost interestingly approach to the problem. Not removing,
though, but pointing out which library will be useful.
This way you avoid the problem of ppl repeatedly submitting the same wish,
and you also provide a sort of "best programs" service to the readers.
> I'm glad it is useful to at least someone! With regards to
> "outrageous desires," do you see any on my list?
When I say outrageous, I mean "modifications that need too much time to be
implemented". It's quite a flexible solution, because the good ppl at ACO
don't seem to have much spare time to work on the 49 anymore.
> if you see something that you don't think should be on the list, tell
> me and I'll see what others think and remove it according to general
> consensus.
oh, well, consider that many of the things that were requested exceed by far
my mathematical knowledge, in so much that I don't even know what the hell
they are asking for :)
[moderated wish-list]
> This can always be debated. I believe that there was a similar debate
> on this newsgroup not too long ago about moderating comp.sys.hp48
> itself. I, for one, cannot say *by myself* that such and such cannot
> be on the wishlist, but this and that can be.
You may be interpreting my words in a way they were not intended to, as I
only meant pondering wishes just like you're already doing :)
Some ideas may be fascinating, I know, but one should always ponder and try
to understand whethere it's a realistic wish, or just a dream.
> contact me. Thanks again, for your input.
Thanks to you for your commitment :)
have a nice sunday
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> > > 6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
> > > (A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
> >
> > Well, one can easily define them as user functions.
>
> I agree. Do you think I should remove it from the list?
No way! You can have even derSEC etc
BUT
the inverses are not known by the calc,
so how would - say: ISOL - work?
> [snip]
>
> > > 9. vector (and complex) calculus commands using overriding/current
> > > angle units
> >
> > Well, rad is just fine for me.
>
> Same here.
But not for me!
> > > 10. complex solver using units (MSLV using units)
> >
> > Hurrraaahhhhh!
>
> This is one of VPN's suggestions, if I'm not mistaken.
1/3 are mine I think :-)
X
> > > 2. fractions (as a display mode)
> >
> > Hmmm, fractions are already displayed as fractions. What do you mean?
>
> That's a good question. I'll have to search the archives to find out
> about this. Could it refer to displaying fractions as on earlier HP
> models (of which I have no idea about)?
The HP39/40 has a special FRACTION display mode.
Re-flash your HP49G and try it out, than you will see the light!!!
> > > 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
> >
> > Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time functions
> > of the HP49G.
>
> Agreed. I'm not too wild about keeping this on the list, but I'll
> leave it on for now.
No, no, no! It's not the same! The Alarms that start programs
don't run them as subroutines (forcing a new Virtual Stack Environment)
but simply display as a message. I'm looking for more like the commands
in the HP-75C, HP-71B and the HP-41CX
> > > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
> > > protection)
> >
> > Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
>
> No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
Correct !!!
VPN - a :-D user of a HP-41CX (one working, three down :-(
Julian Fondren
> rae...@hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rahul_Hor=E9?=) wrote in message news:<698661a1.01102...@posting.google.com>...
(snip)
> > 4. *arbitrary precision floating point math--(Werner Huysegoms was
> > working on adding this ability to the 49G; I'm not sure if he's still
> > involved/interested in the project)*
>
> Oh well, don't find that really necessary.
It seems simple to implement anyway, at least in concept, since you can
use fixed point with the already-extant arbitrary-sized integers.
> > 4. bring back EQNLIB and enhance it with a user tailoring
> > ability--(many EQNLIBs exist as add-ons; maybe this is something that
> > does not need to be officially added to the ROM--opinions?)
There are indeed many, and some of them are even good. It isn't very
important to me that any of them or an addition be put into ROM.
> > 3. thousands separator for all display modes (including integers)
There's a program to add thousands seperators to integers on hpcalc.org
> > 4. CHOOSE submenus
Huh? What do you mean?
> > 10. full hiding capabilities in FILER integrated--(has this been
> > implemented?)
Full hiding? As in you can't see the variables after a NULLID variable?
Why would you even *want* this?
> Not very important for me..
> > 11. bring back STAT soft key menu much like RS-hold + 9 (soft key TIME
> > menu)
Trivial to add, if I understand you correctly.
> > E. Editor and Debugger -- (here's the place that I know the least
> > about; in my opinion we are very fortunate that we have EMACS to work
> > with as many of these items can be taken care of by that; also JAZZ is
> > available for debugging purposes and much more, but I'm not too sure
> > if it is fully functional yet)
EMACS is king. There's a program called Debug49 that *looks* cool, on
hpcalc.org, but it comes in a .prj file or something and I haven't gotten
concerned enough about it to crack the odd distribution. Hptools?
> > 2. RPLCPL used as replacement for CAT key
Trivial to add.
> > 3. ability to create link to HALT command in editor mode as it is
> > deep in menu
I'd like a HALT key, myself =)
> > consensus, but if the 49G team decides to continue improving this
> > already wonderful product, I would not mind sacrificing another user
> > bank (other opinions on this matter?).
> I wouldn't mind sacrificing 2 user banks more if some of these ideas
> would be implemented. :-)
I have plenty of room for good additions =)
> > a satisfied user of the HP 49G,
likewise.
> > --Rahul Horé
>
> Greetings,
> Nick.
Julian Fondren
(snip)
> > 8. in the PICTURE environment, a way of slowing down the movement of
> > the cursor
>
> Hit +. The coordinate display refreshing will slow it a bit.
Another idea might be to have pixel-by-pixel movements done by an
arrow pad on number keys, and the arrow keys sped up a bit. So you
could get to the approximate area really fast, and then close in on
it precisely.
> Thomas
Carsten Dominik
>> > 3. ability to create link to HALT command in editor mode as it is
>> > deep in menu
JF> I'd like a HALT key, myself =)
HALT is on the first menu page of the Emacs menu. If you want to bind
it to a key, use the following SysRPL program and bind it to any key
you want.
:: TakeOver ROMPTR 6FE 3E ;
This ROMPTR is stable, i.e. its position in the Emacs library will not
change in future versions. In fact, Emacs contains a considerable
number of useful rompointers for which the position is fixed - see
Romptr.txt in the Emacs distribution.
If you don't have Emacs, but still want a HALT command at a key, use
the following program
:: TakeOver ' xHALT PTR 0B954 ;
PTR 0B954 is unsupported but stable (says JYA).
- Carsten
Nick Karagiaouroglou
>
> [snip]
>
> > > 4. *arbitrary precision floating point math--(Werner Huysegoms was
> > > working on adding this ability to the 49G; I'm not sure if he's still
> > > involved/interested in the project)*
> >
> > Oh well, don't find that really necessary.
>
> Oh, come now--I've always wanted this! Okay so it's not too useful to
> most, but *I* could find some uses for it. :-)
OK, let's have it. So we can make some investigations about if PI is
normal. (Or if Nick is normal ;-) )
> > > 5. *the rest of the special functions (lngamma, bessels, beta, error,
> > > spherical harmonics, zeta, etc.)--(Steven Ahlig's Bessel 1.2 gives us
> > > some of this functionality)*
> >
> > Spherical harmonics would be fine!
>
> Luckily the aforementioned library has this functionality.
Hmmm, I didn't use this lib. Are the functions completely like the
built in functions? I mean, would some spherical harmonic result as a
part of a solution of a DEQ?
> >
> > > 6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
> > > (A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
> >
> > Well, one can easily define them as user functions.
>
> I agree. Do you think I should remove it from the list?
Well, if some kind of CAS could be introduced, that makes it possible
to completely "join" the defined functions to the CAS, then I think it
could be removed. But if the CAS remains as it is, then it would have
also advantages to introduce such functions as part of the CAS.
> [snip]
>
> > > 9. vector (and complex) calculus commands using overriding/current
> > > angle units
> >
> > Well, rad is just fine for me.
>
> Same here.
>
> > > 10. complex solver using units (MSLV using units)
> >
> > Hurrraaahhhhh!
>
> This is one of VPN's suggestions, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah it had to be. Complex mind wants complex solver. ;-)
> >
> > > 11. *some kind of auto-simplify function (controlled by a
> > > flag)--(Steen Schmidt has written AutoSimp49 1.1, if anyone is
> > > interested)*
> >
> > Perhaps it would be better to work on the already available command
> > SIMPLIFY and make it better ?
>
> Agreed. I'm one of those that doesn't really need too much
> autosimplification; it seems fine to do this on one's own, but I'm
> sure there are people who disagree, so I'm not removing this from the
> list just yet.
OK, I think you are right.
> > > 12. more (specialized) rewriting tools
> > > 13. advanced (linear) solver to handle non (linear) rational cases AND
> > > Wlamberts
> > > 14. symbolic tensor algebra
> >
> > Yes!!!!!!!!!
>
> If you're responding to item 14, I believe this was Keith Farmer's
> idea. I think at one time he had something of the sort implemented
> for the 48. Maybe I should bug him and see if he's interested in
> porting it to the 49.
>
Yes, yes, bug him, bug him!!!!
>
> > > 1. a generally faster plotter (for all graphs) with User Mark setting
> > > (grob)
> > > 2. combination of the wireframe plotter with the fast-3D plotter
> >
> > Yes, for me this is a must.
>
> Agreed. I suppose CdB is who we ask for this.
Nice guy! :-)
> > Could perhaps a density plot be added in the wish list?
>
> Sure, why not?
>
Thanks a lot.
> > > D. Operating System
> > >
> > > 1. *textbook display for more calculus functions--(we have textbook
> > > display for limits and exp as of 1.19-6; perhaps indefinite
> > > integration, Laplace transforms, etc. should be next?)*
> >
> > Would be nice, but I can live with the current textbook display.
>
> Yes. I have grown accustomed to the HP way. I'm even slightly
> disappointed at using e instead of EXP in EQW!
EXP has also its advantages, when the exponent is huge and the small e
just disappears under the pressure of the exponent,
> > > 2. fractions (as a display mode)
> >
> > Hmmm, fractions are already displayed as fractions. What do you mean?
>
> That's a good question. I'll have to search the archives to find out
> about this. Could it refer to displaying fractions as on earlier HP
> models (of which I have no idea about)?
>
> [snip]
>
> > > 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
> >
> > Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time functions
> > of the HP49G.
>
> Agreed. I'm not too wild about keeping this on the list, but I'll
> leave it on for now.
>
> > > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
> > > protection)
> >
> > Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
>
> No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
Ahaaa! :-)
> > > 10. full hiding capabilities in FILER integrated--(has this been
> > > implemented?)
> >
> > Not very important for me..
>
> Wolfgang Rautenberg's suggestion; not terribly important to me,
> either.
>
> [snip]
>
> > I wouldn't mind sacrificing 2 user banks more if some of these ideas
> > would be implemented. :-)
>
> I said 1 user bank just to be conservative. I have so much extra ROM
> memory remaining, it's kind of ridiculous. It might as well be put to
> some good use.
>
Yes, exactly like me.
>
> > Perhaps another idea for the CAS. Mathematica like implicite
> > definitions and user enhancing of built in functions?
>
> This would certainly be nice.
>
> > Greetings,
> > Nick.
>
> --Rahul Hore'
Have a nice day,
Nick.
denis martinez
Rahul Horé wrote a very long text :)
Hi Rahul,
For me, there are two thing i expect. Both concern the filer.
It's only my opinion and my use of course, so take this as a suggestion
for improvement, not a real handicap.
- First it will be nice if alphabetic key maintened bring cursor to the
first occurence of the letter pressed in the filer.
So after a sort, it will easy to go to the first "X"nnnn" file/dir.
- Second why don't think about storing date and time with file ?? manytime
i don't know what file is more recent then another...
I realise how it's difficult to implement ( surely rewrite a big part of
the filer ), but it's only suggestion of course.
@+ Denis.
Nick Karagiaouroglou
> X
> > > > 6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
> > > > (A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
> > >
> > > Well, one can easily define them as user functions.
> >
> > I agree. Do you think I should remove it from the list?
>
> No way! You can have even derSEC etc
> BUT
> the inverses are not known by the calc,
> so how would - say: ISOL - work?
Oh, good point. I tried to solve SEC(x-2)=Pi^2 (with SEC defined
previously) and I get the error "Non-isolable operator". But when I
EXPAND the equation first, then it can be solved easily.
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > 9. vector (and complex) calculus commands using overriding/current
> > > > angle units
> > >
> > > Well, rad is just fine for me.
> >
> > Same here.
>
> But not for me!
Why Veli-Pekka? You don't like rad?
> > > > 10. complex solver using units (MSLV using units)
> > >
> > > Hurrraaahhhhh!
> >
> > This is one of VPN's suggestions, if I'm not mistaken.
>
> 1/3 are mine I think :-)
The new phenomenon: VPN-Calculeritis ;-)
> > > > 2. fractions (as a display mode)
> > >
> > > Hmmm, fractions are already displayed as fractions. What do you mean?
> >
> > That's a good question. I'll have to search the archives to find out
> > about this. Could it refer to displaying fractions as on earlier HP
> > models (of which I have no idea about)?
>
> The HP39/40 has a special FRACTION display mode.
> Re-flash your HP49G and try it out, than you will see the light!!!
Does it look so different?
> > > > 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
> > >
> > > Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time functions
> > > of the HP49G.
> >
> > Agreed. I'm not too wild about keeping this on the list, but I'll
> > leave it on for now.
>
> No, no, no! It's not the same! The Alarms that start programs
> don't run them as subroutines (forcing a new Virtual Stack Environment)
> but simply display as a message. I'm looking for more like the commands
> in the HP-75C, HP-71B and the HP-41CX
What if a program on the 49 sets an alarm and then halts? The alarm
program should contain a CONT at the end and be scheduled a couple of
seconds after the the main program sets it and halts. Then the alarm
runs as a sub-routine (well, kind of) and at its and lets the main
program continue.
> > > > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > > > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
> > > > protection)
> > >
> > > Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
> >
> > No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
>
> Correct !!!
> VPN - a :-D user of a HP-41CX (one working, three down :-(
For a total of four 41s? Veli-Pekka do you have any furniture at home?
;-)
Greetings,
Nick.
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:cd9ca36b.01102...@posting.google.com...
> Hmmm, I didn't use this lib. Are the functions completely like the
> built in functions? I mean, would some spherical harmonic result as a
> part of a solution of a DEQ?
Exactly !!
> > > > 6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
> > > > (A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
> > >
> > > Well, one can easily define them as user functions.
> >
> > I agree. Do you think I should remove it from the list?
>
> Well, if some kind of CAS could be introduced, that makes it possible
> to completely "join" the defined functions to the CAS, then I think it
> could be removed. But if the CAS remains as it is, then it would have
> also advantages to introduce such functions as part of the CAS.
derSEC, etc.. is easy enough to program,
but how to make the CAS to recognize Inverses in UserRPL ?
> > > > 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
> > >
> > > Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time functions
> > > of the HP49G.
> >
> > Agreed. I'm not too wild about keeping this on the list, but I'll
> > leave it on for now.
> >
> > > > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > > > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
> > > > protection)
> > >
> > > Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
> >
> > No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
>
> Ahaaa! :-)
Ha-haa !!!
Greekings, Petros
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> - Second why don't think about storing date and time with file ?? manytime
> i don't know what file is more recent then another...
>
> I realise how it's difficult to implement ( surely rewrite a big part of
> the filer ), but it's only suggestion of course.
I use name.01, name.02,...
AND
when the bugs are out: name
[VPN]
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:76ea4fd3.01102...@posting.google.com...
> > > 3. thousands separator for all display modes (including integers)
>
> There's a program to add thousands seperators to integers on hpcalc.org
It's not the same as a direct implementation in the calc!
> > > 4. CHOOSE submenus
>
> Huh? What do you mean?
Again: Look at the HP39/40: The left side shows a CHOOSE
Main Menu and when you select a group
it expands to the rigth side of the display with a Sub-CHOOSE
Tervehdys, Veli-Pekka
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <vp.nou...@kolumbus.fi> wrote in message
news:<9rh5ju$g59$1...@news.kolumbus.fi>...
overriding/current
> > > > > angle units
> > > >
> > > > Well, rad is just fine for me.
> > >
> > > Same here.
> >
> > But not for me!
>
> Why Veli-Pekka? You don't like rad?
No, it must have something to do with RADiation
I just prefer -DEGREES (in the coldness of Finland)
> > > > > 2. fractions (as a display mode)
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm, fractions are already displayed as fractions. What do you
mean?
> > >
> > > That's a good question. I'll have to search the archives to find out
> > > about this. Could it refer to displaying fractions as on earlier HP
> > > models (of which I have no idea about)?
> >
> > The HP39/40 has a special FRACTION display mode.
> > Re-flash your HP49G and try it out, than you will see the light!!!
>
> Does it look so different?
The not-so-popular-features could be put in a secondary
wishlist eg. we should have votes for priority.
For me the CAS units (including complex numbers in different
angle modes & units) & a Complex Solver capable of solving
even a part from a Complex number (either X;Y or R;Fi)
is of priority numer one !!!
> > > > > 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
> > > >
> > > > Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time
functions
> > > > of the HP49G.
> > >
> > > Agreed. I'm not too wild about keeping this on the list, but I'll
> > > leave it on for now.
> >
> > No, no, no! It's not the same! The Alarms that start programs
> > don't run them as subroutines (forcing a new Virtual Stack Environment)
> > but simply display as a message. I'm looking for more like the commands
> > in the HP-75C, HP-71B and the HP-41CX
>
> What if a program on the 49 sets an alarm and then halts? The alarm
> program should contain a CONT at the end and be scheduled a couple of
> seconds after the the main program sets it and halts. Then the alarm
> runs as a sub-routine (well, kind of) and at its and lets the main
> program continue.
Nice, Nic, but not quite the same...like something is missing...
> > > > > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > > > > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual
Stack
> > > > > protection)
> > > >
> > > > Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
> > >
> > > No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
> >
> > Correct !!!
> > VPN - a :-D user of a HP-41CX (one working, three down :-(
>
> For a total of four 41s? Veli-Pekka do you have any furniture at home?
> ;-)
Remeber the huge 75C, the two 71B, 2*49G, 48GX, 48SX
and I have to move some furniture to my girlfriends carage
to have room for the next generation HP-USA calculators
(wishfull thinking)
Greekings, Petros
> Greetings,
> Nick.
Bhuvanesh
> > > > 5. *the rest of the special functions (lngamma, bessels, beta, error,
> > > > spherical harmonics, zeta, etc.)--(Steven Ahlig's Bessel 1.2 gives us
> > > > some of this functionality)*
> > >
> > > Spherical harmonics would be fine!
> >
> > Luckily the aforementioned library has this functionality.
>
> Hmmm, I didn't use this lib. Are the functions completely like the
> built in functions? I mean, would some spherical harmonic result as a
> part of a solution of a DEQ?
Of course not, since the functions are not integrated into the CAS.
But you can evaluate gamma(54), for example.
> > If you're responding to item 14, I believe this was Keith Farmer's
> > idea. I think at one time he had something of the sort implemented
> > for the 48. Maybe I should bug him and see if he's interested in
> > porting it to the 49.
> >
>
> Yes, yes, bug him, bug him!!!!
I'm interested to know how Keith Farmer's package works. Just to
compare with our TI-89/92+ tensor analysis package.
> > Agreed. I suppose CdB is who we ask for this.
>
> Nice guy! :-)
Hmm, maybe that's the way to get TI to release AMS updates... talking
nicely to them :-)))
Bhuvanesh.
Kamel Bentahar
Add RootOf. This will solve many problems with solving cubics, quartics
and and many other algebraic / transcendental equations :-)
Add PRODUCT
Add INTEGERASSUME
Improve LIMIT to handle limits limits like x!/(2*x)! as x->infinity (not
only those convertible to EXP/LN functions)
Long Floating point arithmetic
(Probably improve FACTOR for integers c.f IFACTOR by Jurjen N.E. Bos.)
I'll keep my list (of new commands) this short, at least for the moment!
Now, I vote for the following to be added to the forthcoming ROMs (From
the wish list..)
A. Computer Algebra System
2. support for integral and integro-differential equations
3. support for partial differential equations
9. vector (and complex) calculus commands
(using overriding/current angle units) I'm OK with RAD :-)
16. support for generalized hypergeometric functions
Those relevant to SIGMA
9. ability to work with and solve recurrence relations
20. extending FACTORMOD to full factorization rather than square-free
only
21. implementation of the Zeilberger algorithm in summation command
22. bring back XFRC for converting floats to quadratic irrationals
23. the ability to work with continued fractions
B. Graphics/Plotting
1. a generally faster plotter
5. fast hidden-line removal algorithm
6. implicit plots
E. Editor and Debugger
2. RPLCPL used as replacement for CAT key
6. a built-in SysRPL/Assembly debugger just as we have one for User RPL
I think that some features could just be satisfied using libraries and
hence there is no need to include them by default in the ROM..(e.g. EMACS
which amzingly useful and everly changing)
Also, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A ROM IN RPN BY DEFAULT!!!
All the best to our beloved HP49 :-)
__
Kamel, who believes that we all should contribute our knowledge/codes to
achieve these goals..
Nick Karagiaouroglou
> "Nick Karagiaouroglou" <n...@imos-consulting.com> wrote in message
> news:cd9ca36b.0110...@posting.google.com...
> > "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <vp.nou...@kolumbus.fi> wrote in message
> news:<9rh5ju$g59$1...@news.kolumbus.fi>...
> > > > > > 9. vector (and complex) calculus commands using
> overriding/current
> > > > > > angle units
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, rad is just fine for me.
> > > >
> > > > Same here.
> > >
> > > But not for me!
> >
> > Why Veli-Pekka? You don't like rad?
>
> No, it must have something to do with RADiation
> I just prefer -DEGREES (in the coldness of Finland)
LOL ;-)
Hmmm, for me what is missing is the care of the OS which on the HP41
takes care of these things, while on the 49 (and 48) the programms
have to take care. Exactly like the R/S key on the 41. You press it
and the program runs, press again and it stops. Immediately!!! Of
course one can program this by checking if keys are pressed, but then
you go to a cooperative multitasking like direction.
> > > > > > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > > > > > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual
> Stack
> > > > > > protection)
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
> > >
> > > Correct !!!
> > > VPN - a :-D user of a HP-41CX (one working, three down :-(
> >
> > For a total of four 41s? Veli-Pekka do you have any furniture at home?
> > ;-)
> Remeber the huge 75C, the two 71B, 2*49G, 48GX, 48SX
> and I have to move some furniture to my girlfriends carage
> to have room for the next generation HP-USA calculators
> (wishfull thinking)
Nice to hear that you didn't abandon hope. Me neither!
> Greekings, Petros
>
Tervehdys,
Very Nikos, errh I mean Veli-Nikos.
Nick Karagiaouroglou
> "Nick Karagiaouroglou" <n...@imos-consulting.com> wrote in message
> news:cd9ca36b.01102...@posting.google.com...
> > Hmmm, I didn't use this lib. Are the functions completely like the
> > built in functions? I mean, would some spherical harmonic result as a
> > part of a solution of a DEQ?
>
> Exactly !!
>
> > > > > 6. *the rest of the trigonometric functions [(A)SEC(H), (A)CSC(H),
> > > > > (A)CTN(H)]--(Steen Schmidt has this implemented in TrigFunc49 1.0)*
> > > >
> > > > Well, one can easily define them as user functions.
> > >
> > > I agree. Do you think I should remove it from the list?
> >
> > Well, if some kind of CAS could be introduced, that makes it possible
> > to completely "join" the defined functions to the CAS, then I think it
> > could be removed. But if the CAS remains as it is, then it would have
> > also advantages to introduce such functions as part of the CAS.
>
> derSEC, etc.. is easy enough to program,
> but how to make the CAS to recognize Inverses in UserRPL ?
One (very uncomfortable) way would be to write programms that do what
you want in these "Special cases" and act like the built in commands
otherwise. For example an XSOLVE would first check with MATCH (my
favorite) if there is a SEC in your expresion. If so it would do what
you programmed. If not, then let SOLVE act. But as said, very very
tedious.
> > > > > 7. timers and a IFTIMER...THEN...ELSE...END structure or similar
> > > >
> > > > Such things can be easily programmed with the built in time functions
> > > > of the HP49G.
> > >
> > > Agreed. I'm not too wild about keeping this on the list, but I'll
> > > leave it on for now.
> > >
> > > > > 8. a programmable StopWatch with splits and all
> > > > > 9. control alarms that are run as subprograms (using Virtual Stack
> > > > > protection)
> > > >
> > > > Let me guess. You have an HP41, don't you? ;-)
> > >
> > > No. You should guess that VPN has an HP 41! :-)
> >
> > Ahaaa! :-)
>
> Ha-haa !!!
>
> Greekings, Petros
Greetings,
Nikos.
Nick Karagiaouroglou
Getting a little wiser in my older days ;-)
> Bhuvanesh.
Keep on CASing,
Nick.
Rahul Horé
> > > working on adding this ability to the 49G; I'm not sure if he's still
> > > involved/interested in the project)*
> >
> > Oh well, don't find that really necessary.
>
> It seems simple to implement anyway, at least in concept, since you can
> use fixed point with the already-extant arbitrary-sized integers.
Hi. Actually, although it seems trivial to implement, it is not.
Basic arithmetic is probably not much of a challenge, but implementing
the trig and exp/ln functions is much more difficult. For example, if
I want to calculate the natural logarithm of a number and expect a
precision of 30 digits, not only does the implementation have to
converge to the proper floating point result, but it must do so in a
reasonable amount of time. The speed of convergence is the problem,
so a good algorithm for this is necessary--and luckily we have Werner
working on this.
thanks for your comments,
--Rahul Hore'
Bhuvanesh
> > Hmmm, I didn't use this lib. Are the functions completely like the
> > built in functions? I mean, would some spherical harmonic result as a
> > part of a solution of a DEQ?
>
> Exactly !!
They do? How did the author hook into the differential equation solver
and other CAS functions? I think there is a way to do things kind of
like this with the TI-89/92+ CAS (actually, replacing functions rather
than extending them), but it's so messy that I don't even want to
think about it :-) I wish it were easy to extend the CAS functions...
Bhuvanesh.
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
X
> Hmmm, for me what is missing is the care of the OS which on the HP41
> takes care of these things, while on the 49 (and 48) the programms
> have to take care. Exactly like the R/S key on the 41. You press it
> and the program runs, press again and it stops. Immediately!!! Of
> course one can program this by checking if keys are pressed, but then
> you go to a cooperative multitasking like direction.
I think that you can press [ATTN], but using DBUG & SST or [CONT]
doesn't work like in the 41CX (and sometimes at all)
AND
What is more frightfull is something like interrupting SINV with [ATTN]
The in-place matrix inversion interrupted gives a corrupted matrix.
Why not include a question like:
Do you really want to quit?
[QUIT| | | | | | | | | |CONT|
AND
In the case of corrupted result: add a line telling this!!!
Do you really want to quit?
(The Result may be corrupted)
[QUIT| | | | | | | | | |CONT|
Just my two cents (euro...) worth
Veli-Pekka
Nick Karagiaouroglou
Fully agree with you Bhuvanesh. It would be so nice if there was a way
to alter the built-in functions. (And of course to restart with the
default set of functions, in case Nick alters the system beyond
recognition. ;-) )
May be I am too mathematica influenced, after all.
Greetings,
Nick.
Werner Huysegoms
>What is more frightfull is something like interrupting SINV with [ATTN]
>The in-place matrix inversion interrupted gives a corrupted matrix.
? Do you own a 48SX, then? because SINV on the 48G/49G does not do
an 'in-place' inversion; rather, it calculates the inverse in exactly
the same way as for a TEMPOB matrix (ie expand to longreal format etc),
then stores the result to the global variable. On a 48SX, matrix computations
used longreal format only for intermediate results, not for the whole
matrix, and could thus calculate an inverse 'in-place'.
I tried it out with a 20x20 matrix just now. I haven't been able to corrupt
the original matrix by interrupting the computation.
Werner Huysegoms
xwerner_...@freegates.bex
(delete the leading and trailing x)
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:IVMD7.7008$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
Thanks for the correction, Werner!
Yes - I do own an HP 48SX
AND an HP 48GX plus two HP 49G
I do computations very often side-by-side.
The colors of the function keys in the 48SX
are the most appealing IMO and the keyboard
layout is the most nice in the 48SX.
I think that even the Residual Correction after
solving a system in the 4xG using / command
is no longer needed either.
Anyway!
What do you think about having a possibility to
STOP or CONTinue a long calculation?
The UNDO would take you back to the original state.
Veli-Pekka
Rahul Horé
> I just to add few wishes to the CAS section:
Many of the things you want are already on the list, but I'll be sure
to add anything that's new; comments follow:
> Add RootOf. This will solve many problems with solving cubics, quartics
> and and many other algebraic / transcendental equations :-)
Yes! I was about to add this to the list myself, but forgot. Thanks
for reminding me.
> Add PRODUCT
This is number 7 on the list (note that it hasn't been prioritized
yet, so all numbering is arbitrary at the moment).
> Add INTEGERASSUME
Number 18.
> Improve LIMIT to handle limits limits like x!/(2*x)! as x->infinity (not
> only those convertible to EXP/LN functions)
Good point. I think we should also ask for full factorial support in
the SERIES and symbolic summation command as well.
> Long Floating point arithmetic
One of my favorites! It is number 4 on the list.
> (Probably improve FACTOR for integers c.f IFACTOR by Jurjen N.E. Bos.)
This would be nice, but IFACTOR is definitely enough for now (I'll add
it to the list, anyway).
> I'll keep my list (of new commands) this short, at least for the moment!
Oh, come now! Don't hold out on us! :-)
> Now, I vote for the following to be added to the forthcoming ROMs (From
> the wish list..)
>
> A. Computer Algebra System
>
> 2. support for integral and integro-differential equations
> 3. support for partial differential equations
Yes, this will probably be one of the most popular responses.
> 9. vector (and complex) calculus commands
> (using overriding/current angle units) I'm OK with RAD :-)
>
> 16. support for generalized hypergeometric functions
> Those relevant to SIGMA
I'd love to see this, but even I am doubtful. :-(
> 9. ability to work with and solve recurrence relations
> 20. extending FACTORMOD to full factorization rather than square-free
> only
This would be nice.
> 21. implementation of the Zeilberger algorithm in summation command
> 22. bring back XFRC for converting floats to quadratic irrationals
> 23. the ability to work with continued fractions
Continued fraction support is one of my favorites. Although it has
been implemented in Joe Horn's CFR, a fully supported, enhanced
version on the calculator would be nice (at least at the system level,
if it doesn't already exist). With this support, implementing XFRC
should be much easier. In fact, if you know SysRPL (or are trying
learn like me) check out the source code of other.s from the Erable
library on hpcalc.org. There you will find the XFRC source code. The
algorithm for computing the symbolic form of a quadratic irrational,
according to the Erable 3.2 documentation (if I'm correct), is
intimately related to the periodicity of its continued fraction
expansion.
> B. Graphics/Plotting
>
> 1. a generally faster plotter
>
> 5. fast hidden-line removal algorithm
> 6. implicit plots
I, too would like a faster plotter, but I'm not that worried about
speed. I think that implicit plots shouldn't be that hard to
implement, but the general interest doesn't seem to be there.
> E. Editor and Debugger
> 2. RPLCPL used as replacement for CAT key
> 6. a built-in SysRPL/Assembly debugger just as we have one for User RPL
With regards to RPLCPL, I personally don't think it is that necessary
to include in a ROM revision, although it would be really nice.
Furthermore, at one time, Carsten used to have a stand-alone version
of this that was very small (I used to have it on my calculator, but
got rid of it when I installed Emacs) which shouldn't be hard to
assign to a key with Wolfgang's KEYMAN. To speak of the debugger, it
would be great to have it, but again, it may not be something we
really need in the ROM--I'm sure all the hardcore programmers might
object to this, though.
>
> I think that some features could just be satisfied using libraries and
> hence there is no need to include them by default in the ROM..(e.g. EMACS
> which amzingly useful and everly changing)
>
> Also, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A ROM IN RPN BY DEFAULT!!!
Who wouldn't?
>
> All the best to our beloved HP49 :-)
> __
> Kamel, who believes that we all should contribute our knowledge/codes to
> achieve these goals..
Yes, this is the point of the list. I fully realize that many of
these items cannot/will not be implemented by the HP 49G development
team. But that doesn't mean we can't have them! There are many
excellent programmers (with diverse interests) for this calculator and
hopefully they will contribute to the HP 49G community if they have
time (of course, many of them already contribute, even if they have no
time!). Thanks for your comments/additions.
--Rahul Horé
James M. Prange
>
>Hello, everyone. I don't know if people are still interested in
>having a wishlist for the HP 49G, but I guess the only way to find out
>is to post a semi-updated version.
I have nothing against a wishlist on the newsgroup as a place to discuss the
desirability and feasibility of additional features, but I would mention that it
seems appropriate to submit feature requests at http://bugs.hpcalc.org/ by
choosing "Enhancement" for the "Severity".
<snip>
>Wishlist for HP 49G RPN programmable graphing calculator
Personally, my wish is that all known bugs be fixed, a new offical "Commercial"
ROM be released, and the documentation updated and corrected, and then a new
series of Beta ROMs with additional features be started.
<snip>
>I'm not sure about the general
>consensus, but if the 49G team decides to continue improving this
>already wonderful product, I would not mind sacrificing another user
>bank (other opinions on this matter?).
This might be acceptable for an "unofficial" ROM, but I'd like to see these
"Beta" ROMs eventually released as "Commercial", and I don't think it would be
appropriate to leave the customer less available flash memory than HP has told
us is available. It might be feasible for HP to release packages of related
features as libraries to be installed as user options.
<snip>
Regards,
James
Carsten Dominik
>> E. Editor and Debugger
>> 2. RPLCPL used as replacement for CAT key
>> 6. a built-in SysRPL/Assembly debugger just as we have one for User RPL
RH> With regards to RPLCPL, I personally don't think it is that necessary
RH> to include in a ROM revision, although it would be really nice.
RH> Furthermore, at one time, Carsten used to have a stand-alone version
RH> of this that was very small
Yes, this version was only a few hundred bytes. If I would isolate
the current RPLCPL from Emacs, it would be a lot bigger since is does
so much more now (variables, completion from user supplied lists,
merging catalog and extable where appropriate, decompilation and help
from the choose box...). That uses a lot of different parts of Emacs,
so isolating it would not make sense.
I could make a small stand-alone version with fewer features for the
ROM, if that was what HP wanted.
- Carsten
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
"James M. Prange" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:F35E7.8333$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
X
> Personally, my wish is that all known bugs be fixed, a new offical
"Commercial"
> ROM be released, and the documentation updated and corrected, and then a
new
> series of Beta ROMs with additional features be started.
> This might be acceptable for an "unofficial" ROM, but I'd like to see
these
> "Beta" ROMs eventually released as "Commercial", and I don't think it
would be
> appropriate to leave the customer less available flash memory than HP has
told
> us is available. It might be feasible for HP to release packages of
related
> features as libraries to be installed as user options.
First) Commercial ROM with updated documents from the current HP
with current sales of the 49G ???!! Keep on dreaming, James !!
Second) A separate Library is a good idea !!
I vote for a separate Downloadable Pack,
which installes itself to the first User Bank
and integrates itself to the system bankswitching schema!!!
Is this possible, JYA ???
Veli-Pekka
James M. Prange
> First) Commercial ROM with updated documents from the current HP
> with current sales of the 49G ???!! Keep on dreaming, James !!
I don't know the sales numbers, but it was a wish, not an expectation.
It was a pleasant dream, but the sad news from Jean-Yves, and now
Gerald, tells me that it was only a dream.
Regards,
James
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:3be24...@nntp.I-IS.COM...
> Veli-Pekka Nousiainen wrote:
> > First) Commercial ROM with updated documents from the current HP
> > with current sales of the 49G ???!! Keep on dreaming, James !!
>
> I don't know the sales numbers, but it was a wish, not an expectation.
> It was a pleasant dream, but the sad news from Jean-Yves, and now
> Gerald, tells me that it was only a dream.
> Regards,
> James
Sadness and sorrow fills my soul.
Where is the score, where is the goal?
(C)2001 VPN
Nick Karagiaouroglou
And you don't see any chance for JYA and (some of) the crew starting a
new calc business of their own? Absolutely no way?
Greetings,
Nick.