Amiga CHRISTIAN Users (Pending Bible Software)
Mr W.M. Kong
Hi there all,
Well, I was just wondering whether anybody has heard of the company Simila Soft. Well, they produce currently both MAC and PC bible software. However, the Vice-President (Israel Simila) is quite an Amiga supporter himself and they are also currently working on Q-Net (Internet software for Amiga).
Well, I mailed him and he said that if greater than 50 request are made for an Amiga Bible Software, he will develop one for the platform. Here is what a transcription of our E-mail conversation :
****Begin Transcript************************************************************
>Well, are you planning in making any bible software
>for the Amiga?
If we get enough interest in Bible software for the Amiga we will.
You are our second request. If we get around 50 requests we will see
that there is sufficient demand for an Amiga based Bible product. So,
if you know anybody else who would purchase or be interested in
purchasing it, ask them to e-mail us.
*****End Transcript*************************************************************
Anyway, here is their E-mail address :
Simil...@halcyon.com
Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing Amiga as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just 48 more people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their support...
Regards in Christ,
Wy Mun
BTW : Their HTTP address is
http://www.halcyon.com/israel/SimilaSoft/Welcome.html
Mike Hall
> Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing Amiga
> as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just 48 more
> people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
> Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their support...
>
> Regards in Christ,
Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
--
__
__///
\XX/ ,\\ike Hall mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au fidonet: 3:640/944
Russ 'Argel' LeBar
: In an article, w...@ic.ac.uk (Mr W.M. Kong) writes:
: > Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing Amiga
: > as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just 48 more
: > people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
: > Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their support...
: >
: > Regards in Christ,
: Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
: a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now THAT was a flame which makes YOU troll Get a life luzer.
And there's also a middle line of users who might have A1200s but are
slowly trying it soup them up and who do NOT pirate. I'm one of them, and
I'd be interested in a Catholic (i.e. NOT King James) version of the Bible.
/---Russ-LeBar---+-- Term Toolstrip Imagery Designer --+------S()------\
| /// | c62...@showme.missouri.edu (best) |A1200-6MB-426HD|
|__ /// Dare To | c62...@mizzou1.missouri.edu (good) |MBx1200z |
|\\\/// Dream +--- WWW ---- White Falls ---- URL ---+ 4MB&14mhz881 |
| \XX/ A M I G A| http://www.missouri.edu/~c621412 |USR Sportster |
+^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+
| HomePage features: Kathy Troccoli, Term toolstrip imagery, Artwork...|
| FTP: musie.phlab.missouri.edu in pub/amiga -------- Term beta tester |
\------S()--Argel----------- Opinions are mine & thus CORRECT =) ------/
Dan Schmelzer
: > Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing Amiga
: > as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just 48 more
: > people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
: > Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their support...
: >
: > Regards in Christ,
: Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
: a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
: intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: --
: __
: __///
: \XX/ ,\\ike Hall mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au fidonet: 3:640/944
Mike,
Assuming the above is not flame bait, you are welcome to your opinion
but I certainly feel that a religious person can be intelligent and
that an intelligent person can also be religious. I feel I'm one of
them! As far as having limited monetary resources and being a software
pirate, I think the ethics of a person determines the acceptability
of pirating software. I know you used qualifiers such as "likely"
and "a very small percentage" versus "always" and "no one" but I
would like to think (or at least hope) that people in the AMIGA
community have a bit more care for their fellow human beings than the
average PC user (please no flames from PC users). For example, look at
all the freeware from Amiga programmers on Aminet! I personally have
posted my work to Aminet for the better good of the Amiga community.
BTW, I have considered using my Amiga for Bible Study.
_______________
_____/ \_____
___________/ ___AMIGA___ \___________
/ __The Next Generation__ \
| To Boldly Go Where No Computing Has Gone Before |
| |
| Dan Schmelzer |
| d...@col.hp.com |
\___________________________________________________/
bria...@delphi.com
>: Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
>: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
>: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
>: a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
>: intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
Only a fool believes there is no god. How did we get here ignorant fool.
Evolution, I think not that is laughable and anyone who believes in evolution
is well laughable. I feel sorry for the poor fool
joe solinsky
: Russ 'Argel' LeBar <c62...@showme.missouri.edu> writes:
:
: >: Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
: >: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
: >: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
company: we are still determining if there would be enough support. I
strongly urge all of you to support this if it is something you want. Heck,
I don't care if it's that darned cheesy bible we had in junior high school,
although my bet is that it would be NIV, King James, or RSV 2nd Edition, just
by sheer number comparisons to what has already been done.
We could settle all of this if everyone could read Ionic Greek. Oh well.
Cheer up everyone, Armageddon is coming; soon this will all be over.
--Joe Solinsky
. . . __
/\ |\/| | / ' /\
/--\| | | \__7/--\
/__ __\
"Anything is Possible"
(theme quote from Escom of Germany, new owners of the Amiga)
--April 21, 1995--
Roland Larsson
> Evolution, I think not that is laughable and anyone who believes in evolution
> is well laughable.
If you *have* to preach here, can you at least be coherent? Better yet, take
it to alt.religion.amiga.
Roland
--------------------------------------------------------------
Roland Larsson |
Bartol Research Institute | "My brain hurts."
University of Delaware |
Newark, DE 19716, USA | - Mr. Gumby
|
lar...@bartol.udel.edu |
Matt Pierce
: > Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing Amiga
: > as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just 48 more
: > people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
: > Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their support...
: >
: > Regards in Christ,
: Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
: a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
: intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
Oooch that hurt...not!!! Musn't have a closed mind now :)
Todd M. Lewis
Russell) writes:
>In article <mike...@fulink.edex.edu.au> mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au (Mike Hall)
writes:
>>[...] since they've obviously got some
>>intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
Evidently not, as he must know everything already.
--
Todd_...@unc.edu
"If your nose runs and your feet smell,
you're built umop-apisdn."
James Cooper
In article <0098FD45...@netins.net>, tem...@netins.net writes:
>In article <3o7tnf$9...@news.udel.edu>, LAR...@brivs2.bartol.udel.edu (Roland Larsson) writes:
>>In <RK0dqa-....@delphi.com> bria...@delphi.com writes:
>>> Evolution, I think not that is laughable and anyone who believes in evolution
>>> is well laughable.
>>
>>If you *have* to preach here, can you at least be coherent? Better yet, take
>>it to alt.religion.amiga.
>
>laughable one is that believes in fantasy religion stories that are based on
>no evidence of any kind and are only believed with TOTAL BLIND FAITH. After
>all they have nothing more than that and a black story book.
>
>Religion is total fantasy.
>
>Study of evolution is a science / search for the truth.
Preaching is preaching, and you're just as guilty as the original poster
of this.
As Roland requested, take this debate elsewhere, as it has NOTHING to do
with the Amiga.
--
---------------
Jim Cooper
(ja...@unx.sas.com) bix: jcooper
Any opinions expressed herein are mine (Mine, all mine! Ha, ha, ha!),
and not necessarily those of my employer.
Andre' Barton
>I don't care if it's that darned cheesy bible we had in junior high school,
>although my bet is that it would be NIV, King James, or RSV 2nd Edition, just
>by sheer number comparisons to what has already been done.
>We could settle all of this if everyone could read Ionic Greek. Oh well.
>Cheer up everyone, Armageddon is coming; soon this will all be over.
I hope it's started by a group of people that don't claim to have god
on their side, that would sure make a change..;^>
Cheers,
--
an...@andrez.equinox.gen.nz Be Pure
Amiga1200+DKB030/50/8 Be Vigilant
Amiga500+GVPII+2meg Most of all Behave! ..Torquemada2000AD
JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI)
> Russ 'Argel' LeBar <c62...@showme.missouri.edu> writes:
>
>>: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
>>: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>: intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
>
> I would be interested. I have a 2000. Im a christian and I have sense.
> Only a fool believes there is no god. How did we get here ignorant fool.
No, you don't understand. If you're going to start a religion flamewar on an
Amiga newsgroup, at least be intelligent about it.
For starters, _always_ capitalize God when you're talking about Him. To leave
it uncapped when you're talking about "a Greek god" is OK, but I assume you
mean the dude that made the universe.
Next up, I think you might want to rethink calling someone "ignorant fool". God
has lost enough credibility already from people spreading hate in His name.
Don't make it worse, especially not in an Amiga newsgroup.
Now, as to evolution, I get frustrated with Christians who refuse to accept the
idea that evolution is compatible with God. Is it so hard to believe God
could have put the whole creation process on automatic? Or are you so hung up
with the words that you aren't actually reading it, i. e. you think it _has_ to
happen _exactly_ the way the Bible says, to the point where you take all the
parables literally?
Now let's take this to alt.pagan or alt.fan.god or whatever.
Or else wait for almi...@heaven.net to show up and add His two cents to this
thread.
BTW, what kind of Amiga do you think God uses? I mean, it's doubtful He'd have
been able to create the universe in just a week on a PC, the GPFs alone would
have set Him back at least two weeks. Would God be using a 4000, or perhaps an
A3000+? I'd vote for an A1200 with an '060 and an internal 3.5" 9 gig hard
drive, I figure if anyone could put that in an A1200, it'd be the Almighty.
--
| http://www.columbus.iupui.edu/~jrshepar | IUPU Columbus, Indiana |
|John Shepard jrsh...@indyvax.iupui.edu I wanna go to a real school someday! |
| Internet is too important to be taken seriously. | Artist, writer, net.loon |
| Amiga owner & Sarah McLachlan fan: God help me! |in the making. Finger me &|
|"Enrich the soil, no soul no soul" Sarah McLachlan| tell me that you love me.|
Mr J E Pullen
|> Mike Hall (mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au) wrote:
|> : In an article, w...@ic.ac.uk (Mr W.M. Kong) writes:
|>
|> : > Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing Amiga
|> : > as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just 48 more
|> : > people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
|> : > Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their support...
|> : >
|> : > Regards in Christ,
|>
|> : little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
|> : most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
|> : a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
|>
Hmmm... I'm all for the Amiga as a Bible study aid. I think it would really
be of benefit to Amiga owners who want to find out more about dogma,
tradition, vengence, elitism, and the general tremendous dodginess of
organised religions. err... and it's place in modern home computing.
Regards in [insert quasi-mytical character here]
. . . . .. .. ... .... ..... . James Pullen ..... .... ... .. .. . . .
. . . . .. .. ... .. es...@csv.warwick.ac.uk .... ... .. .. . . .
. . . . .. .. .. http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~esuix/ .. . . . . .
Frank Russell
>From: mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au (Mike Hall)
>Date: Mon, 1 May 95 15:19:12 +1000
>In an article, w...@ic.ac.uk (Mr W.M. Kong) writes:
>> Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing Amiga
>> as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just 48 more
>> people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
>> Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their support...
>>
>> Regards in Christ,
>Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
>little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
>most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
>a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
>intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
>--
> __
>__///
>\XX/ ,\\ike Hall mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au fidonet: 3:640/944
Gee, have YOU ever got a lot to learn..............
Frank
tem...@netins.net
>In <RK0dqa-....@delphi.com> bria...@delphi.com writes:
>
>> is well laughable.
>
>it to alt.religion.amiga.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Roland Larsson |
>Bartol Research Institute | "My brain hurts."
>University of Delaware |
>Newark, DE 19716, USA | - Mr. Gumby
> |
>lar...@bartol.udel.edu |
No doubt! The original poster probably has not given much thought to how
Neal G. Gilbertson
> >> Hence, I call all Christian users who want to
> >>use their existing Amiga
> >> as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!!
> >>Just 48 more
> >> people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
> >> Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too
> >>for their support...
> >>
> >> Regards in Christ,
>
> >Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
> >little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
> >most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
> >a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
> >intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
Mike.
One of the unintelligent-non belieiving-little bastards-who-pirate-
SoftWare-and-think it's "intelligence" that counts. It's not intelligence.
It's common sense that if you do not believe in God you are a fool.
It's Been that way a long time and will continue to be.
Were our ancesters wrong? I don't think so.
NG
jane johnston
Hey we're nice "guys". Go flame somewhere else.
Thank you,
--jane j
Stephen Judd
JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI) <jrsh...@indyvax.iupui.edu> wrote:
>
>No, you don't understand. If you're going to start a religion flamewar on an
>Amiga newsgroup, at least be intelligent about it.
>
>been able to create the universe in just a week on a PC, the GPFs alone would
>have set Him back at least two weeks. Would God be using a 4000, or perhaps an
>A3000+? I'd vote for an A1200 with an '060 and an internal 3.5" 9 gig hard
>drive, I figure if anyone could put that in an A1200, it'd be the Almighty.
Several schools of thought on this subject have developed over the years.
Much progress has been made in this area more recently, and unanswered
questions remain, but an analysis of the subject is a currently maturing
field of study; I shall attempt to cover the salient points of current
analytical thought.
Let us begin with a typical human example:
- System Operation:
o Multitasking OS -- Most humans have the ability to pat their head
and rub their stomach simultaneously(1). Furthermore, the
average human is able to multitask preemptively, as is
clearly demonstrated by the fact that patting your head and
rubbing your stomach causes little degradation in higher
priority system tasks such as eyesight, breathing, hopping
on one foot while turning in a circle, and singing "I'm Happy
Just To Dance With You" by The Beatles. I have personally
performed this experiment, and it is easily reproducable.
o Custom processors for different subsystems -- the mere act of
watching shows like "Knight Rider"(2) while eating potato chips
demonstrates the allocation of independent resources to such
tasks as visual, audio, I/O, etc.
o Limited protection: Local failures may be contained, and
sometimes fixed, but illegal accesses/modifications can bring the
entire system to a halt.
o Auto-configuring. Put a pencil or a fork in your hands: the
typical human automatically senses the hardware expansion, and
uses it accordingly. Note that some hardware may be incompatible
with individual systems, such as chopsticks(3), gender-
specific items(4), etc.
- Hardware features:
o Built-in stereo sound
o Standard speech capability
o Easily expandable via hardware and software add-ons/upgrades.
o Although individual upgrades are made, the same basic model
has been used for thousands of years.
o Commodore logo stamped on each unit (take a close look at
your belly button sometime)
So by circumstantial deduction it is pretty clear that God uses/used an Amiga
for all His works. But there is evidence elsewhere as well; first, an
affirmation of the binary number system:
"But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever
is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 3:37 (KJB)
Note also that the entire Amiga history closely parallels the various
narratives on the life of Jesus, the most striking resemblance being
the Amiga's death to the passion narratives. Think about it: here we
have something that was far ahead of its time, at first welcomed with
praise but later killed by those who originally embraced it, but even
with the physical entity of Commodore destroyed the spirit is alive
and well, and obvious examples of the Amiga and it's spirit are there for
anyone with eyes to see.
So it is immediately clear that God used/uses an Amiga for all of His
various works and activities. What is not clear, and is currently
the subject of much scholarly debate, is what particular kind of Amiga He
uses (5) (6) (7).
Now, there is further evidence of what other computers were used for what
things. First, take the story of Adam and Eve. Presented with paradise,
they instead embraced temptation and suffered greatly for it, and causing
all subsequent generations to also suffer. And what were they tempted
with? An Apple. And who tempted them with it? Understanding comes,
slowly but surely.
We also have the following text:
Matt 16:18 "... and upon this rock I will build by church; and
the Gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
There is extensive literature devoted to this subject, so I will not go
into it here (8).
Oh yes, one more thing is clear: when God programmed the universe, He
used FORTRAN (9) (10).
AMIGA: God used it to create the universe: and you just thought the
"Kaliedescope" demo was cool.
AMIGA: The Computer For The Creative Mind; The Computer For The Creator's
Mind.
AMIGA: Do you want to go to Hell or do you want to use an Amiga?
(Note to imaginary ESCOM people reading this message: if you want to
use the above slogans, please contact me).
References:
(1) Weasel, Vole, et.al., "Stability Criteria for Head Patting and
Tummy Rubbing", Journal of Pointless Timewasting, vol. 9
(2) Callipygian, "Michael Knight: Modern Shakespearian Metaphor",
and "KITT: The New Automotive Voyeurism", unpublished.
(3) Smith, et.al., "Chopsticks: Who The Hell Invented These Crazy
Things?", What The Hell Is Up With This, vol. 13 Issue 5
(4) Smith, et.al., "Why The Hell Don't Men Get To Wear Bras Even
Though They Have Nipples?", What The Hell Is Up With This,
vol. 13, Issue 7.
(5) Smegma, H.M.S., "God Uses An A1000", proceedings of comp.sys.
amiga.advocacy, vol. 912
(6) Pluvial, "No he doesn't you stupid twink, He uses a 5000 with
AAA", proceedings of comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, vol 3912
(7) Beelzebub, "Is Creator 1.1 available for the Mac?", proceedings
of comp.sys.amiga.misc, vol. 216
(8) various, "Extensive Literature Devoted To The Subject Of Non-Amiga
Computers And Their Banishing From Heaven So That I Don't Have To
Go Into It Here", compiled by sj...@nwu.edu.
(9) Unknown, "FORTRAN: God's language", Apocrypha.
(10) Compilation, "Emacs vs. vi -- What does God use?", OSF document
No. 31415A-1
evetS-
Russ 'Argel' LeBar
: In article <RK0dqa-....@delphi.com>, bria...@delphi.com writes:
: > Russ 'Argel' LeBar <c62...@showme.missouri.edu> writes:
: >
: >>: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
: >>: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
: >>: a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
: >>: intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
: >
: > I would be interested. I have a 2000. Im a christian and I have sense.
: > Only a fool believes there is no god. How did we get here ignorant fool.
: > is well laughable. I feel sorry for the poor fool
: No, you don't understand. If you're going to start a religion flamewar on an
: Amiga newsgroup, at least be intelligent about it.
[...]
And learn how to quote! I didn't say ANYTHING up there (unless it was the
'^^^^' part)! I for one am a Catholic and believe in evolution, btw.
JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI)
> laughable one is that believes in fantasy religion stories that are based on
> no evidence of any kind and are only believed with TOTAL BLIND FAITH. After
> all they have nothing more than that and a black story book.
That's the idea.
Sort of like the belief that Escom will produce Amigas, you have to take it on
faith, because without said faith, life loses a lot of meaning.
> Religion is total fantasy.
>
> Study of evolution is a science / search for the truth.
Let's compromise: Yes, I know about evolution, and firmly believe it. I have
held fossils of extinct and primitive lifeforms in my hand, you can't tell me
it's just a lie concocted by secular science. But on the other hand, there
remain two unsolved mysteries: the moment at which life began, and the moment
at which the universe began. That the precise mixture of chemicals required to
produce the first DNA could have occurred by chance is as preposterous to me as
the idea of religion is to you. And _no_ one knows what existed _before_ the
Big Bang, or why the BB occurred in the first place.
You may have your evolution if you let me have my God. Just don't forget it's
not impossible to have both. And I am convinced that those who insist on an
exclusive-or scenario, in which God and evolution cannot exist in the same
universe, are making things worse. Yes, this means fundamentalists too, the
Lord said love one another, and decrying evolution/science AND all who believe
it as "laughable" is most certainly NOT what Jesus had in mind when he spent a
perfectly good afternoon nailed to a cross bleeding for said fundamentalists.
Let's submit an RFC for comp.sys.amiga.religion.
Branko Collin
>: Russ 'Argel' LeBar <c62...@showme.missouri.edu> writes:
>:
>: >: Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
>: >: little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
>: >: most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
>company: we are still determining if there would be enough support. I
>strongly urge all of you to support this if it is something you want. Heck,
>although my bet is that it would be NIV, King James, or RSV 2nd Edition, just
>by sheer number comparisons to what has already been done.
>We could settle all of this if everyone could read Ionic Greek. Oh well.
>Cheer up everyone, Armageddon is coming; soon this will all be over.
>
it would be a tool to study the ways of an enemy.
On a different note. As the King James bible is freely available through
the Internet and also I believe in Fred Fish's collection, would it
be so hard to make a studying tool using ARexx or some freeware
DBMS?
.......................................................................
. Branko Collin . 'WHOP .
. . whisssssCRAC! .
. // u24...@vm.uci.kun.nl . THUMPA THUMPA' .
. \X/ bco...@mpi.nl (work) . Meccano - Gilette .
.......................................................................
Jeff Grimmett
To you, perhaps. Personally, you might be a total fantasy of the net, too.
Prove to me you exist.
|> Study of evolution is a science / search for the truth.
:: laughing so hard I can't stand it ::
You see confused. Search for truth is philosophy, or religion without
the loud colors. Search for FACTS might be considered science.
Then again, science is IMO just a new age religion. Any time you use
the words "I believe" you're making a religious statement of faith, not
a factual statement. Look at your textbooks and tell me how many times
you've seen THAT statement from "honored scientists."
Leave the religious fanatatics to thier own devices... quite frankly,
you're not doing the scientific community any credit, either.
--
-------------- Jeff Grimmett (619) 655-7365
jgr...@sdd.hp.com fax: (619) 655-8302
------------------
DG Coombes
: Study of evolution is a science / search for the truth.
I'm currently studying a degree in Biochemistry and a lot of evolution is
tot. There is evidence for it and it has been seen that
survival-of-the-fittest plays an important role in a species existance but
it is FAR from the whole truth. Anyway, this isn't the place for this. The
original thread concerned only Christian users and to reply in order to slag
off someone's belief, no matter how stupid it might sound to you, is typical
of the lack of tolerance that causes so much of the world's mess. Let
people be and if you don't agree then ignore them.
__________________________Sig-a-lig-a-lig__________________________
David Coombes (u3...@keele.ac.uk)
Kristofer D. Dale
: >been able to create the universe in just a week on a PC, the GPFs alone would
: >have set Him back at least two weeks. Would God be using a 4000, or perhaps an
: >A3000+? I'd vote for an A1200 with an '060 and an internal 3.5" 9 gig hard
: >drive, I figure if anyone could put that in an A1200, it'd be the Almighty.
"Ravaged by rampant fear & weakness,
men created god in their idealized likeness..."
-excerpt from "The Bible Tells Me So..."
--
barefoot
Mike Hall
> >Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
> >little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
> >most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
> >a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
> >intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
>
> Gee, have YOU ever got a lot to learn..............
>
> Frank
Hmm.. of all the expected flames this one's got me intrigued.
If you think you know better then please express your opinion (fully).
BTW, most of what I said above was just a lead up to my dig at religion
and although I believe religion does serve some purpose in society, I
also consider anyone that truly believes in a god/creator to be not a
very logical thinker.
Anyway, hopefully (depending mostly on participation of my survey)
we'll soon see if this outrageous theory of mine is correct. :)
--
__
Patrick K. Huckelberry
All I have to say is that whether or not you believe in God, you should
cut Him some slack in the Amiga newsgroups. I mean if anything can use
some devine intervention, it's the Amiga. 8-)
BTW: I think the Almighty's Amiga would definitely have SCSI. ;)
--
Patrick K. Huckelberry /Interests: Economics, / Evil is just plain bad!
ac...@detroit.freenet.org / Politics, Education. / -The Tick
Currently Reading: In the Shadow of the Poorhouse: A Social History of
___________________Welfare in America.______________________________________
Kyle D Widener
L
>arsson) writes:
>>In <RK0dqa-....@delphi.com> bria...@delphi.com writes:
>>
o
>n
>>
>>If you *have* to preach here, can you at least be coherent? Better yet, take
>>it to alt.religion.amiga.
>>
>>Roland
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>Roland Larsson |
>>Bartol Research Institute | "My brain hurts."
>>University of Delaware |
>>Newark, DE 19716, USA | - Mr. Gumby
>> |
>>lar...@bartol.udel.edu |
>
>laughable one is that believes in fantasy religion stories that are based on
>no evidence of any kind and are only believed with TOTAL BLIND FAITH. After
>all they have nothing more than that and a black story book.
>
>
>Study of evolution is a science / search for the truth.
>
Speaking of fantasy and total blind faith....
* The 2nd _LAW_ of thermal dynamics (everything in a closed system has a
tendency to go from a state of order to a state of disorder) - the closed syste
m
being the universe and the state of disorder being chaos and the state of order
being the complex human body among others - tends to blow away the _THEORY_ of
evolution which claims just the opposite.
* Two Nobel Laureate scientists in GBR (who were evolutionists) -
a mathematician and a biologist, completed a five year study in the 70's that
showed that the odds of natural evolution occurring are one in ten to the forty
thousandth power.
With no source of matter for the "Big Bang" and no explanation of how to
get millions of progressive, beneficial mutations when the real world shows tha
t
mutations are almost always detrimental it is obvious to "seekers of truth" tha
t
real science shows evolution to be fantasy and total blind faith.
[soapbox mode off]
Matt Pierce
: All I have to say is that whether or not you believe in God, you should
: cut Him some slack in the Amiga newsgroups. I mean if anything can use
: some devine intervention, it's the Amiga. 8-)
: BTW: I think the Almighty's Amiga would definitely have SCSI. ;)
Yeah, and RTG running perfectly with 100% compatibility on a 24bit
googlepixel display able to blit whole screens at a framerate of
your choice. Oh yeah, and with true CD quality sound :)
Kevin Allan Donald Carter
consideration for those of us who wish to keep this newsgroup at least
semi-intelligent and Amiga related. If you want to debate religion, I'm sure
you'll find that there are several newsgroups that are more appropriate than
comp.sys.amiga.misc for discussion religion, philosophy, stupidity, or
whatever.
Kevin
JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI)
>> >> Hence, I call all Christian users who want to
>> >>use their existing Amiga
>> >> as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!!
>> >>Just 48 more
>> >> people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to other
>> >> Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too
>> >>for their support...
>> >>
>> >> Regards in Christ,
>>
>> >little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
>> >most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
>> >a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
>> >intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
>
> Mike.
> One of the unintelligent-non belieiving-little bastards-who-pirate-
> SoftWare-and-think it's "intelligence" that counts. It's not intelligence.
> It's common sense that if you do not believe in God you are a fool.
> It's Been that way a long time and will continue to be.
> Were our ancesters wrong? I don't think so.
>
> NG
I thought we weren't supposed to say "You fool" to our brothers. Seems I read
that somewhere.
Duncan Grisby
In article <138...@cup.portal.com>,
Ky...@cup.portal.com (Kyle D Widener) writes:
[...]
>
> Speaking of fantasy and total blind faith....
>
>* The 2nd _LAW_ of thermal dynamics (everything in a closed system has
>a
>tendency to go from a state of order to a state of disorder) - the
>closed syste
>m
>being the universe and the state of disorder being chaos and the state
>of order
>being the complex human body among others - tends to blow away the
>_THEORY_ of
>evolution which claims just the opposite.
>
The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that in the Universe as a whole,
entropy increases. It says nothing at all about purely local phenomena
such as life on Earth or anywhere else.
>* Two Nobel Laureate scientists in GBR (who were evolutionists) -
>a mathematician and a biologist, completed a five year study in the
>70's that
>showed that the odds of natural evolution occurring are one in ten to
>the forty
>thousandth power.
>
This highlights a common misconception about probability. Probability
is only meaningful when an event is (or at least can be) repeated many
times. If I toss a coin 32 times (for example), and write down the
sequence of heads and tails, then afterwards work out the probability
of obtaining that sequence, it turns out to be 1 in four thousand
million. That's very unlikely, but it doesn't mean that the original
sequence shouldn't have occurred, just that it's not very likely to
occur again.
By tossing a coin enough times, I can perform an event which has a
probability equivalent to your 1 in 10^40000. (132878 times in
fact.)
In conclusion, estimating the probablility of life occurring can only
be useful to estimate the density of life in the Universe.
> With no source of matter for the "Big Bang"
Brush up on your quantum theory and general relativity. The fact that
time, as well as matter, gets all screwed up near the big bang means
that things just aren't that simple.
There are plenty of other theories as to the origin of the universe
which do not require a big bang. Big bang therory (in all its
variants) is just the most popular at the moment.
> and no explanation of how to
>get millions of progressive, beneficial mutations when the real
>world shows that mutations are almost always detrimental it is obvious
>to "seekers of truth" that real science shows evolution to be fantasy
>and total blind faith.
Getting at least a little closer to the subject of the newsgroup
(but not much), the success of genetic algorithms shows that
evolution does work in some circumstances. This is, IMHO, good
evidence for it working in biological systems.
--
-- Duncan Grisby --
-- dpg...@cam.ac.uk --
-- finger dpg...@cus.cam.ac.uk for PGP public key. --
Stephen Judd
Kristofer D. Dale <bare...@nmia.com> wrote:
>
>"Ravaged by rampant fear & weakness,
> men created god in their idealized likeness..."
>
> -excerpt from "The Bible Tells Me So..."
In some ways I hate to be the one who has to break this sort of
news to people, but Christianity is the domain of the intellectual.
True, you can find people who want to be told what to do, but
you also find people who turn to the Bible for intellectual stimulation
and challenge. I could reference myself, but far better examples
exist such as J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Dostoyevsky, T.S. Eliot,
e.e. cummings, Ezra Pound, Oscar Wilde, etc. etc. etc.
Remember back in high school, when you thought of something really
cutting-edge and insightful, and couldn't figure out why you were
the only one who was aware of it, and it wasn't until much later
that you realized that everyone in the world had thought of the
same thing at about the same age, and discarded it years ago because it
was actually pretty naive reasoning? That's why nobody ever bothers to
respond to concepts such as your quote above.
Just thought you might like to know! Note that followups are redirected
elsewhere (I certainly won't see them, either, so feel free to write up a
huge flame about why I'm wrong, and things like that ;-).
evetS-
> barefoot
Andre' Barton
>Then again, science is IMO just a new age religion. Any time you use
>the words "I believe" you're making a religious statement of faith, not
>a factual statement. Look at your textbooks and tell me how many times
>you've seen THAT statement from "honored scientists."
Nope your are just generalizing.. a apple is round there for this orange
is also a apple(never mind all the other outstanding differences).
If science was a religion, it would be a failed science "God is a stupid
answer to any question", science hasn't failed in that way, so it is not
yet a religion.
(I've had my say, I'd better shutup before some Order_Freaks get upset,
and start bossing me about ;^)))
David Seikel
In a message dated Mon, 1 May 95 15:19: mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au writes:
> In an article, w...@ic.ac.uk (Mr W.M. Kong) writes:
> > Hence, I call all Christian users who want to use their existing
> > Amiga as a serious Bible Study tool to all send mail to the above!! Just
> > 48 more people, and he'll consider it... Please pass this message to
> > other Christians you know who have an Amiga and ask them too for their
> > support...
> Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
> little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
> most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
> a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
> intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
Anybody with any intelligence would have checked AmiNet first to see if
they could get a bible study tool for free, there has been one there for
years. Finding it I leave as an exercise for the student.
(BTW, I feel I should point out that I am an atheist, before I get the
wrong sort of flames. The right sort of flames should be sent to any of
the religious newsgroups, where they will be ignored by me since I don't
read them. As for why I know that there is a bible study tool an AmiNet;
know thy enemy.)
the DVS one
--
David Seikel. I am not related to any lawyers called Siegel (I hope).
dv...@jeack.apana.org.au Digital Polyglot World's Greatest Programmer.
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." //
- with apologies to Arthur C. Clarke. \X/
* Offline Orbit 0.74 *
Des Whewell
: In article <1995May4.142154.14642@ivax>,: >
: Let us begin with a typical human example:
: evetS-
Wonderful stuff, Stephen. Best laugh in ages.
--
.------------------------------------------------.
! Des Whewell: Internet - d...@oregon.demon.co.uk !
! Fidonet - 2:440/36.14 |
`------------------------------------------------'
Sloppy
> Speaking of fantasy and total blind faith....
>
> * The 2nd _LAW_ of thermal dynamics (everything in a closed system has a
> tendency to go from a state of order to a state of disorder) - the closed system
> being the universe and the state of disorder being chaos and the state of order
> being the complex human body among others - tends to blow away the _THEORY_ of
> evolution which claims just the opposite.
Wrong. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
> * Two Nobel Laureate scientists in GBR (who were evolutionists) -
> a mathematician and a biologist, completed a five year study in the 70's that
> showed that the odds of natural evolution occurring are one in ten to the forty
> thousandth power.
If it weren't for the "70's" part, I'de day this sounds like a Pentium
problem.
> With no source of matter for the "Big Bang"
(Or source of matter for the "God")
> and no explanation of how to get millions of progressive, beneficial mutations
Wrong. Even Darwin, over a hundred years ago, knew the explanations.
> when the real world shows that
> mutations are almost always detrimental
Wrong. Unless you've tested your DNA against that of your parents, you
have no idea how many mutations you have. The detrimental ones, though,
can be pretty easy to notice, because you'de be dead or able to count to 14
on your fingers or something.
> it is obvious to "seekers of truth" that
> real science shows evolution to be fantasy and total blind faith
BTW, unless Darwin used an Amiga, or God has upgraded to OS 3.1, all
this stuff sounds suspiciously off-topic. I thought the original post on
this thread, about a Bible study for the Amiga, was tasteful and
inoffensive. Then some idiot just _had_ to make an inflammatory remark
about it, and _that_ was out of line and pointless. Let the mystics live
their lives, and the non-mystics live theirs. Both kinds are allowed to
use Amigas. (Qualification: Christians must not think of themselves as
a "flock" or use all of the other sheep imagery in the bible, because of
one of our new slogans: "Amiga: No sheep allowed." ;-)
If I were a conspiracy-nut, I'de think that this is an attempt to invade
the newsgroup...
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin
Sloppy
Charles E Taylor IV
: BTW, unless Darwin used an Amiga, or God has upgraded to OS 3.1, all
:this stuff sounds suspiciously off-topic.
God hasn't upgraded. He still runs 1.1, which is why the world runs like
it does. :)
: If I were a conspiracy-nut, I'd think that this is an attempt to invade
:the newsgroup...
Nothing like a good old-fashoined fundamentalist flamewar to liven up the
summer doldrums!
--
__ ___ _ _ _ |<<<<< -----EMAIL----- >>>>>| So this is it,
|_)o _ |/ | |_|\_/| / \|_) |cha...@hubcap.clemson.edu | we're going to
| \||_ |\ | | | | |_\_/| \ |cha...@clemson.clemson.edu| die ...
<a href="http://www.eng.clemson.edu/~charlet/home.html">Wow,a homepage!</a>
Kristofer D. Dale
>
>"Ravaged by rampant fear & weakness,
> men created god in their idealized likeness..."
>
> -excerpt from "The Bible Tells Me So..."
>In some ways I hate to be the one who has to break this sort of
>news to people, but Christianity is the domain of the intellectual.
Frightened intellectuals...
>True, you can find people who want to be told what to do, but
>you also find people who turn to the Bible for intellectual stimulation
>and challenge. I could reference myself, but far better examples
>exist such as J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Dostoyevsky, T.S. Eliot,
>e.e. cummings, Ezra Pound, Oscar Wilde, etc. etc. etc.
Christianity is also the domain of superstition...
>Remember back in high school, when you thought of something really
>cutting-edge and insightful, and couldn't figure out why you were
>the only one who was aware of it, and it wasn't until much later
>that you realized that everyone in the world had thought of the
>same thing at about the same age, and discarded it years ago because it
>was actually pretty naive reasoning? That's why nobody ever bothers to
>respond to concepts such as your quote above.
You responded to it! I have still not had that feeling you so
vividly describe... ;^]
>Just thought you might like to know! Note that followups are redirected
>elsewhere (I certainly won't see them, either, so feel free to write up a
>huge flame about why I'm wrong, and things like that ;-).
Therefore I will answer here, after all, you read the previous post...
"He ain't chicken-s#!t, but he sure has hen-house ways..." -anonymous
"Religion is the opiate of dumb asses!" -aszsa
barefoot
p.s. the Amiga is still my favorite computer/OS, god or no god!
MetalReign
controller...Maxed out it can transfer 20 MB Per Sec!!!
That would be cool 8)!!!
God bless Amiga!!!
Eric Haddix
But the Pharoah had Wintendoze...no damn wonder he ain't around
no more...:).
--
Nothing is illegal if one hundred businessmen decide to do it.
-- Andrew Young
LEGALIZE MARIJUANA!!!----Eric Haddix
eha...@lunatix.lex.ky.us
j.r. gray
>> tendency to go from a state of order to a state of disorder) - the closed system
>> being the universe and the state of disorder being chaos and the state of order
>> being the complex human body among others - tends to blow away the _THEORY_ of
>> evolution which claims just the opposite.
Hey, I've read about this is a book by Josh McDowell! I think it was
called answers or something like that. I read that a while ago though.
I thought it to be a very logical explanation. Life is the only force of
nature which contradicts this Law. Therefore, the science of evolution
seems to be contradicting itself. Either evolution is false, or the 2nd
*LAW* of thermo dynamics is incorrect.
> > Wrong. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. >
Think about it. If all things go from order to disorder, how can certain
things go from disorder to order. Something has to give.
>> and no explanation of how to get millions of progressive, beneficial mutations
>
> Wrong. Even Darwin, over a hundred years ago, knew the explanations.
>
>> when the real world shows that mutations are almost always detrimental
Darwin, before he died, dismissed all of his theories about "the origin or
the species". He did not mean for a whole Science to be started because
of his observations of natural selection.
>
> Wrong. Unless you've tested your DNA against that of your parents, you
>have no idea how many mutations you have. The detrimental ones, though,
>can be pretty easy to notice, because you'de be dead or able to count to 14
>on your fingers or something.
>
>> it is obvious to "seekers of truth" that
>> real science shows evolution to be fantasy and total blind faith
Evolution has been disproved by many different scientific institutions
Sorry guys, I just thought I'd put my two cents into it.
Charles E Taylor IV
:Life is the only force of
:seems to be contradicting itself. Either evolution is false, or the 2nd
:*LAW* of thermo dynamics is incorrect.
:Think about it. If all things go from order to disorder, how can certain
:things go from disorder to order. Something has to give.
Sometimes I wonder if the people who make such statements have even opened
an elementary textxbook and found out what the second law of
thermodynamics is saying.
Frank Russell
>Subject: Re: Amiga CHRISTIAN Users (Pending Bible Software)
>From: mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au (Mike Hall)
>Date: Fri, 5 May 95 18:22:48 +1000
>In an article, E...@ballarat.edu.au (Frank Russell) writes:
>> >Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
>> >little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
>> >most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
>> >a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
>> >intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
>>
>> Gee, have YOU ever got a lot to learn..............
>>
>> Frank
>Hmm.. of all the expected flames this one's got me intrigued.
>If you think you know better then please express your opinion (fully).
>BTW, most of what I said above was just a lead up to my dig at religion
>and although I believe religion does serve some purpose in society, I
>also consider anyone that truly believes in a god/creator to be not a
>very logical thinker.
>Anyway, hopefully (depending mostly on participation of my survey)
>we'll soon see if this outrageous theory of mine is correct. :)
>--
> __
>__///
>\XX/ ,\\ike Hall mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au fidonet: 3:640/944
Well to elaborate Mike, you have at least two things to learn initially;
Firstly, where on earth did you get your wacky idea that "high end" users are
not software pirates? My experience at the University here is that there is
absolutely no evidence to support such a thesis.
Secondly, you assert that "intelligence" and "religion" are mutually
exclusive. You obviously don't know many intelligent people. Einstein for
instance was a committed Christian. Again, within the academic communities I
have been involved with, a very high percentage profess to a christian
background, and many of the remainder follow other religeous traditions. Your
unsupported broad brush comments cause me to pause and wonder at your level of
maturity, insight, and experience. I can only assume that you are a very
young man.
Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
that the awesome complexity of the Creation resulted from myriads of
unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped at
the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be spontaneously
formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows, maybe it did, and a C=
executive stumbled across it??????)
BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
committment to Christ, and am yet to find any conflict between them......!
Cheers
Frank
Michael van Elst
>tendency to go from a state of order to a state of disorder) - the closed syste
>m
>being the universe and the state of disorder being chaos and the state of order
>being the complex human body among others - tends to blow away the _THEORY_ of
>evolution which claims just the opposite.
You are missing to understand the words "closed system".
>* Two Nobel Laureate scientists in GBR (who were evolutionists) -
>a mathematician and a biologist, completed a five year study in the 70's that
>showed that the odds of natural evolution occurring are one in ten to the forty
>thousandth power.
Well, I believe that the chance to get _this particular history_ is even
smaller. Doesn't mean that history didn't take place, no ?
> With no source of matter for the "Big Bang"
... in sight. Of course the creationists never have seen the source
for the matter in their world.
>and no explanation of how to
>get millions of progressive, beneficial mutations when the real world shows tha
>t
>mutations are almost always detrimental
Almost.. sure.
--
Michael van Elst
Internet: mle...@serpens.rhein.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Bruce McFarling
> >> * The 2nd _LAW_ of thermal dynamics (everything in a closed system has a
> >> tendency to go from a state of order to a state of disorder)
(1) Jay Gould's _The Panda's Thumb_ is an interesting read on the other
side of the question.
(2) There is NO number 2.
(3) Isn't this an .advocacy topic? And not necessarily c.s.a.advocacy,
either.
Bruce McFarling, Knoxville
br...@utkux1.utk.edu
Bruce McFarling
> > Two Nobel Laureate scientists in GBR (who were evolutionists) -
> >a mathematician and a biologist, completed a five year study in the 70's that
> >showed that the odds of natural evolution occurring are one in ten to the forty
> >thousandth power.
> Well, I believe that the chance to get _this particular history_ is even
> smaller. Doesn't mean that history didn't take place, no ?
OK, now how many G-type stars are there with rocky planets in the liquid
water zone? So N draws x one in ten to the four thousandth power is one
to the four hundredth power? one in ten to the fourth power? one in 1.2?
This is a silly argument. How many Federal buildings have there
been through U.S. history? How many days in the 20th century? Did the low
odds of having a federal building blown up in this century (happened a lot
more in the 1800's!) prevent Oklahoma City?
Evolution by natural selection depends on the principle that a
self-replicating system, no matter how rare at first, makes itself more
common through reproduction. OTOH maybe GOD rigged the creation of the
world to make it look like the universe is billions of years old, just to
test our faith. As long as it resulted in two-legged bipeds that invented
the Amiga, what difference does it make for comp.sys.amiga.* And
Micro$oft as evidence of the devil at work belongs in
comp.sys.amiga.advocacy.
Besides, AFAILITB[*], GOD uses an Amiga 320GB glovetop, which in
2050 will have been widely regarded as the most elegant single-user,
multi-processor microcomputer ever produced, only to be supplanted by
those little chip thingies that everyone sticks in their head. Of course,
GOD uses an 320K instead of those because GOD is no chip head.
Virtually,
Bruce McFarling, Knoxville
br...@utkux1.utk.edu
AFAILITB: As Far As I'd Like It To Be
Kristofer D. Dale
"Christians, christians, everywhere, and nary a brain to think..." -aszsa
Listen up people, use your Amiga, use it wisely, use it well, whatever
your prejudice, persuasion, proclivity; it is an invaluable tool that
stands out against the background mediocrity & boorishness of civilized life!
--
barefoot
Michael van Elst
>Think about it. If all things go from order to disorder, how can certain
>things go from disorder to order. Something has to give.
Sure, the Sun.
>Evolution has been disproved by many different scientific institutions
Call them non-scientific. Of course you cannot prove evolution, there
will be always a reason missing or an effect that is not understood.
That's why science does not look for proofs.
Regards,
--
Michael van Elst
Internet: mle...@serpens.rhein.de
Robert Owen Raine
Kim Fong Ong <kim...@overman.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Frank Russell wrote:
>: Secondly, you assert that "intelligence" and "religion" are mutually
>: instance was a committed Christian. Again, within the academic communities I
>: have been involved with, a very high percentage profess to a christian
>: background, and many of the remainder follow other religeous traditions. Your
>: unsupported broad brush comments cause me to pause and wonder at your level of
>: maturity, insight, and experience. I can only assume that you are a very
>: young man.
>
>believe that there is some great entity out there that can be God or something
>greater. That in my opinion, put him strictly in the agnostic category. Unless
>an agnostic can be considered as commited Christian, your statement is patently
>wrong!
>
>: Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
>: unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
>: some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
>: then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped at
>: the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be spontaneously
>: formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows, maybe it did, and a C=
>: executive stumbled across it??????)
>
>something manmade like a computer with only natural elements. A man has to
>be in that equation somehow. But there is still a possibility for nature to
>create something natural, like men ourselves. But man like you and I have
>evolved through millions of years, if we are the machines you described, we
>would not have gone past the apes. Your proposition has in the first place
>failed as your equations are not logical.
>
>: BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
>
>deductions. Showing that A=B and B=C does not necessary goes on to prove that
>A will necessary equates to C.
>
>And I'm not implying you are stupid, but that you have made a mistake here.
>
A=B You are a Frog.
B=C Frogs hop from lilie pad to lilie pad.
A=C You hop from lilie pad to lilie pad.
Logic is not the be all end all of the universe. If the first statement is false
the thing collapses like a house of cards.
Your first statement is God dosn't exist. You Can't prove that.
My first statement is God exist. I can't prove that.
Thats why they call it Faith.
Please take these petty arguments to alt.religion.whatever and return this thread
to its original purpose which was a call to INTERESTED users about Bible study
software to contact the company. ----------
As for the rest of you I feel sorry that you have Educated yourself right out of
the desire to find Gods Love for you. Maybe someday you will WISE up, till then I
will pray for you.
\|/
@ @
------------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------
Only Amiga Makes it Happen Bob Raine
The computer for the creative mind Michigan State University
Make Up Your Own Mind Physics Astronomy Dept.
Amiga / The Alternative Ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antonino Vitale
AVV>In article <mike...@fulink.edex.edu.au> mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au (Mike Hall) writes:
AVV>>Subject: Re: Amiga CHRISTIAN Users (Pending Bible Software)
AVV>>From: mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au (Mike Hall)
AVV>>Date: Fri, 5 May 95 18:22:48 +1000
AVV>
AVV>>In an article, E...@ballarat.edu.au (Frank Russell) writes:
AVV>
AVV>>> >Wouldn't be viable, there's two kinds of Amiga users, those with
AVV>>> >little money who buy A500's and 1200's that are likely to pirate
AVV>>> >most of their software and then there's those with money who bought
AVV>>> >a high end Amiga rather than a PC, since they've obviously got some
AVV>>> >intelligence there'd be a very small percentage who are religious.
AVV>>>
AVV>>> Gee, have YOU ever got a lot to learn..............
Agreed!!
AVV>>>
AVV>>> Frank
AVV>
AVV>>Hmm.. of all the expected flames this one's got me intrigued.
AVV>
AVV>>If you think you know better then please express your opinion (fully).
AVV>
AVV>>BTW, most of what I said above was just a lead up to my dig at religion
AVV>>and although I believe religion does serve some purpose in society, I
AVV>>also consider anyone that truly believes in a god/creator to be not a
AVV>>very logical thinker.
AVV>
AVV>>Anyway, hopefully (depending mostly on participation of my survey)
AVV>>we'll soon see if this outrageous theory of mine is correct. :)
AVV>
AVV>
AVV>
AVV>>--
AVV>> __
AVV>>__///
AVV>>\XX/ ,\\ike Hall mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au fidonet: 3:640/944
AVV>
AVV>
AVV>Well to elaborate Mike, you have at least two things to learn initially;
AVV>
AVV>Firstly, where on earth did you get your wacky idea that "high end" users are
AVV>not software pirates? My experience at the University here is that there is
AVV>absolutely no evidence to support such a thesis.
AVV>
AVV>Secondly, you assert that "intelligence" and "religion" are mutually
AVV>exclusive. You obviously don't know many intelligent people. Einstein for
AVV>instance was a committed Christian. Again, within the academic communities I
AVV>have been involved with, a very high percentage profess to a christian
AVV>background, and many of the remainder follow other religeous traditions. Your
AVV>unsupported broad brush comments cause me to pause and wonder at your level of
AVV>maturity, insight, and experience. I can only assume that you are a very
AVV>young man.
AVV>
AVV>Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
AVV>that the awesome complexity of the Creation resulted from myriads of
AVV>unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
AVV>some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
AVV>then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped at
AVV>the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be spontaneously
AVV>formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows, maybe it did, and a C=
AVV>executive stumbled across it??????)
AVV>
AVV>BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
AVV>committment to Christ, and am yet to find any conflict between them......!
AVV>
AVV>
AVV>Cheers
AVV>
AVV>Frank
I agree with Frank. What makes a person is not what computer he or she owns (a
superficial measurement) but what is in the soul. If the term 'soul' offends than use
pyschological make up. Also, science is a religion just as much as christianity.
It's just that nobody wants to admit it.
---
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ / Nino Vitale / // +
+I never met a Vogon I didn't like. \\// Amiga - Realize the possibilities +
+ (vit...@dps.cos.eds.com) \/ [Commodore's lost opportunity] +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Matt Pierce
: Frank Russell wrote:
: I don't see your comparison as valid. It is obvious that you cannot create
: something manmade like a computer with only natural elements. A man has to
: be in that equation somehow. But there is still a possibility for nature to
: create something natural, like men ourselves. But man like you and I have
: evolved through millions of years, if we are the machines you described, we
: would not have gone past the apes. Your proposition has in the first place
: failed as your equations are not logical.
The same can be said for man, I just read a chapter discussing the theories
of how life came about on earth (the book is called "Paradigms Lost" and
is an excellent source of disscussion of scientific theories and has
nothing to do with Christianity except to state that Creationism has
no scientific place in the discussion of the origins of life). Every
theory of the origins of life looks plausible from a distance, but once
you get closer and start examining the details you get into the
chicken/egg problem. The current theories cannot mathematically or
chemically or mechanically work as they stand, due to percentage of
failure of primitive spontaneous DNA/RNA strands with no error-coding
protection along with you can't have DNA/RNA with out protiens and
you can't have protiens without DNA/RNA, and lots of other stuff.
: : BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
: : committment to Christ, and am yet to find any conflict between them......!
: That is good, but that means you should have been more careful with logical
: deductions. Showing that A=B and B=C does not necessary goes on to prove that
: A will necessary equates to C.
Then someones definition of '=' is wrong because if a=b means that "a is
identical and indistinguishable from b" and b=c is means the same, then
a=c is definitely true.
What does this have to do with the Amiga? Nothing, but isn't it great
that Dr. Kittel is back at work again? I know I'm happy, and will
purchase another Amiga once they get them back into production
Matt Pierce
Michael Kraemer
Organization: GSI, Darmstadt, Germany
Subject: Re: Amiga CHRISTIAN Users (Pending Bible Software)
In article <3ongnk$a...@serpens.rhein.de>, mle...@serpens.rhein.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
|> jrg...@julian.uwo.ca (j.r. gray) writes:
|>
|> >Think about it. If all things go from order to disorder, how can certain
|> >things go from disorder to order. Something has to give.
|>
|> Sure, the Sun.
|>
|> >Evolution has been disproved by many different scientific institutions
|>
|> Call them non-scientific. Of course you cannot prove evolution, there
|> will be always a reason missing or an effect that is not understood.
|> That's why science does not look for proofs.
|>
Of course science looks for proofs. That's what makes the difference to religion.
However, often one has to live with "strong evidence" rather than a true proof.
Still this uncertainty is a much better approach than religious beliefs that
are unprovable at all.
On the other hand science in general can't 100% rule out the existence of things.
Michael
Bill Kindel
> We are still examining the market. However, if we do not see at least 50
> reponses (from different people) stating that they would buy such a
> product, we will not even think about it. To date we have 26 people
> expressing interest in such a product.
Add me to your list! While I'm reasonably happy with the version of
WordSearch that I run under MS-DOS emulation, there are a lot of things
that a native Amiga version (especially with an ARexx port) could do that
would simply leave it in the dust.
> So, Amiga users...do you really want to use your Amiga as a Bible study
> tool?
Yes, I do.
> Would you pirate the software?
I am not a pirate. I write code for a living, too.
> Would you help us market it?
Within reason.
> Would you be willing to pay as much as 150 dollars?
$150 is a bit high (especially compared to single-version products),
but if it does what I need I'll buy it.
> What versions do you want most (some are more expensive than others
> due to royalties)?
My parish uses the New Revised Standard Version (with Apocrypha), so
that's mandatory for me. We could also make use of Spanish, RSV, and
King James. I'd also like to have Greek and Hebrew (with word-for-word
literal translations).
> BTW: Make no mistake this product would be exceptional and would rival
> even the best Bible software. The CD-ROM would have 20+ Bible versions
> and 25+ reference books.
Sounds good to me! It's actually more versions that I have need for, but
I can use all the reference materials you can provide.
===========================================================================
Bill Kindel Voice: 617/621-7395 | Happy, productive Amiga owner.
Research Institute FAX: 617/621-8696 | 90M MS-DOS users CAN be wrong!
Open Software Foundation kin...@osf.org | (They just don't know better.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PGP Public Key: Send mail to kin...@osf.org for self-certificate.
PGP Fingerprint: CB DF 86 30 FF 9D 8F A2 AA 01 70 26 C8 E2 D4 F6
Standard Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are my own and do
not necessarily represent those of my employer.
===========================================================================
Bruce McFarling
stuff one the platter too, like the Tao Teh Ching, the Bagahvad Gita
(sp?), the Koran, etc., aren't you? It would seem silly to waste a good
search and cross reference engine on only one world religion, when you've
got that storage space on a CD-ROM.
Bruce McFarling, Knoxville
br...@utkux1.utk.edu
Dan Schmelzer
Yes, I'm interested in a good Bible Reference program for my Amiga.
I do not currently have a CD-rom drive for my A3000 but would consider
buying one to accomodate your program.
Most interested in the following versions:
New Revised Standard Version
New International Version
Apocrypha (Addition)
New American Bible (Catholic version) -- Not on your list.
As far as worrying about pirating of this kind of software I doubt
that any REAL user of the software would want to pirate it anyway! :-)
PS. I tried mailing to you directly but the mailer bounced it back.
_______________
_____/ \_____
___________/ ___AMIGA___ \___________
/ __The Next Generation__ \
| To Boldly Go Where No Computing Has Gone Before |
| |
| Dan Schmelzer |
| d...@col.hp.com |
\___________________________________________________/
Stephan Roth
> I would be interested. I have a 2000. Im a christian and I have sense.
> Only a fool believes there is no god. How did we get here ignorant fool.
> Evolution, I think not that is laughable and anyone who believes in evolution
> is well laughable. I feel sorry for the poor fool
You are absolutely correct, mortal! There is a god, in fact there
are several gods! I, THE ALLMIGHTY THORRNAFET, am one of them. Pray,
Obey & Seek The Divine Void (TM) and you might be rewarded with
wealth and power. If you choose to follow the path of The Divine
Void (TM), your mental horizon will narrow and your mind will stay
tuned on the less important things in life. So, your life will become
meaningless and simple, as in your dearest desires.
For more information on the Brotherhood Of The Divine Void (BOTDV) or
related freak-gatherings dial ro...@ibc.unibe.ch
Who thinks, I always mean what I write, should write what he means to
> NIL: or any FAT12- or FAT16-related datacarrier.
--
Stephan Roth | Amiga 4000/40
ro...@ibc.unibe.ch | 16 MB 360 HD KS 3.1
Student of Alchemy | EGS Piccolo
Bruce Elrick
j.r. gray <jrg...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
>>> * The 2nd _LAW_ of thermal dynamics (everything in a closed system has a
>>> being the universe and the state of disorder being chaos and the state of order
>>> being the complex human body among others - tends to blow away the _THEORY_ of
>>> evolution which claims just the opposite.
>
>called answers or something like that. I read that a while ago though.
>seems to be contradicting itself. Either evolution is false, or the 2nd
>*LAW* of thermo dynamics is incorrect.
Or you don't know what you're talking about. Entropy is decreasing in
the biosphere at the expense of the sun and space. The Earth is not a
closed system. The sun is at a high temperature and deep space is at
a low temperature, and we're just riding this big heat engine in the
middle called Earth. Entropy is increasing, on the whole.
Statistical mechanically yours,
Bruce
--
Bruce Elrick ---- Physics ---- University of Toronto ---- M5S 1A7
elr...@physics.utoronto.ca -- Office:MP1022 -- Phone:416-978-5207
Kim Fong Ong
: Secondly, you assert that "intelligence" and "religion" are mutually
: exclusive. You obviously don't know many intelligent people. Einstein for
: instance was a committed Christian. Again, within the academic communities I
: have been involved with, a very high percentage profess to a christian
: background, and many of the remainder follow other religeous traditions. Your
: unsupported broad brush comments cause me to pause and wonder at your level of
: maturity, insight, and experience. I can only assume that you are a very
: young man.
Einstein stated that he did not believe in a physical God, but he likes to
believe that there is some great entity out there that can be God or something
greater. That in my opinion, put him strictly in the agnostic category. Unless
an agnostic can be considered as commited Christian, your statement is patently
wrong!
: Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
: that the awesome complexity of the Creation resulted from myriads of
: unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
: some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
: then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped at
: the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be spontaneously
: formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows, maybe it did, and a C=
: executive stumbled across it??????)
I don't see your comparison as valid. It is obvious that you cannot create
something manmade like a computer with only natural elements. A man has to
be in that equation somehow. But there is still a possibility for nature to
create something natural, like men ourselves. But man like you and I have
evolved through millions of years, if we are the machines you described, we
would not have gone past the apes. Your proposition has in the first place
failed as your equations are not logical.
: BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
: committment to Christ, and am yet to find any conflict between them......!
That is good, but that means you should have been more careful with logical
deductions. Showing that A=B and B=C does not necessary goes on to prove that
A will necessary equates to C.
And I'm not implying you are stupid, but that you have made a mistake here.
--
Kim Fong Ong --- <kim...@overman.demon.co.uk> <zcw...@ucl.ac.uk>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Literature will die out, and stupid poetic phrases will remain to drift over
the world," I remarked. -Milan Kundera, Immortality
Israel Simila
reponses (from different people) stating that they would buy such a
product, we will not even think about it. To date we have 26 people
expressing interest in such a product.
If we do receive 50 requests, our course of action would be:
Examine the time and resources it would take. (including marketing,
development, and packaging.)
Determine what it would be necissary to charge. (taking into account
piracy)
Examine whether the market would bare the price. (taking into account
that it should be reasonably priced)
So, Amiga users...do you really want to use your Amiga as a Bible study
tool? Would you pirate the software? Would you help use market it? Would
you be willing to pay as much as 150 dollars? What versions do you want
most (some are more expensive than others due to royalties)?
BTW: Make no mistake this product would be exceptional and would rival
even the best Bible software. The CD-ROM would have 20+ Bible versions
and 25+ reference books.
Bible Versions we have (from most expensive to least - royalty wise)
New International Version (very expensive - 25$ a copy)
New King James Version
New American Standard Version
Modern King James Version
Green's Literal Translation
New Revised Standard Version
*************************** (No royalties beyond here)
Darby Version
Young's Literal Translation
Cambridge Bible in Basic English
American Standard Version
Revised Standard Version
Weymouth NT
King James Authorised Version
Apocrypha (Addition)
Koran (Not a Bible Version)
*************************** (Non-English beyond here)
Greek NT
Hebrew OT
Spanish RVA
Finnish
French
German
Dutch
Hungarian
Russian
Arabic
Afrikaan's
Melanesian
Maroi
**********************
Give me your input.
Israel A. Simila
Vice-President, SimilaSoft
The future is coming soon.........to a theater near you.
Israel Simila
Web: http://www.halcyon.com/israel/SimilaSoft/Welcome.html
E-Mail: Simil...@halcyon.com
Snail-Mail: SimilaSoft, 1722 Harrison Ave. NW, Olympia WA 98502
Phone: (360)956-9646
FAX: (360)956-9685
ORDERS ONLY: 1-800-991-3004
Israel A. Simila
Vice-President, SimilaSoft
The future is coming soon..........to a theater near you.
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| To many Amiga's to list here..68000/7.14MHz-68040/40MHz|
| A500-A4000 |
| |
| Plus: Power Macintosh/486DX2-66, 486DX2-80 local bus, |
| Pentium 66MHz. |
| |
| Which do you think I like the best? ;^) |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Vice-President, SimilaSoft (12.94-Current) |
| Multimedia Manager, SIM TECH Communications(2.94-12.94)|
| Computer Systems Manager, Harvest Int'l (4.89-12.93) |
| Director of Graphic Layout & Design, |
| Harvest Int'l (10.92-12.93 |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Could I have invented the wheel if necissary? |
| Naaa...I would have hired a team of programmers to |
| do the dirty work... |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Mike Hall
> >BTW, most of what I said above was just a lead up to my dig at religion
> >and although I believe religion does serve some purpose in society, I
> >also consider anyone that truly believes in a god/creator to be not a
> >very logical thinker.
>
> >Anyway, hopefully (depending mostly on participation of my survey)
> >we'll soon see if this outrageous theory of mine is correct. :)
>
> Well to elaborate Mike, you have at least two things to learn initially;
> Firstly, where on earth did you get your wacky idea that "high end" users
> are not software pirates? My experience at the University here is that
> there is absolutely no evidence to support such a thesis.
I didn't say that but it's pretty obvious that someone with money has
the ability to purchase software while someone without does not.
> Secondly, you assert that "intelligence" and "religion" are mutually
> exclusive. You obviously don't know many intelligent people. Einstein for
> instance was a committed Christian. Again, within the academic communities
> I have been involved with, a very high percentage profess to a christian
> background, and many of the remainder follow other religeous traditions.
> Your unsupported broad brush comments cause me to pause and wonder at your
> level of maturity, insight, and experience. I can only assume that you
> are a very young man.
Perhaps Einstein didn't take time out to really think about it?
I don't know but many forms of intervention to an individuals beliefs
certainly exist. (ones upbringing would be very influencial).
oh and I'm soon to be 25 if that really makes a difference...
I came to my conclusions about god around 10 yrs of age and it would
have been earlier if it weren't for the fear of dying and going to hell.
makes me wonder how many choose to believe 'just in case'.
of course at that stage I didn't know much about religion or evolution
but at the time all I really needed to know was, do I believe in magic?
> Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
> that the awesome complexity of the Creation resulted from myriads of
> unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
Definately, it sure makes a hell of a lot more sense than a creator.
How about the fact that Earth has been around for billions of years
yet the bible states otherwise? do you really believe everything
the bible says no matter the evidence against it?
Oh and by some incredible coincidence, some guy on Donahue is basically
confirming what occured to me yesterday in that different races have
varying intellectual ability.
My theory went a step further though as there's a reason to everything.
Negros have been found to be more athletic than other races but they
score lower in IQ tests than whites, females are believed to be more
emotional/intuitive while males are more logical, (the reason why the
great majority of inventions and scientific breakthroughs have been
achieved by men).
The Japanese would be one of the most intelligent races, not of design
but as their environment has stimulated the process of logical thought
their mind has simply evolved.
'While Japanese are no longer very much involved in religion, the great
majority of undevelopelod cultures are'.
Although my attack on religion was of their intelligence the survey
topic was 'logic & religion' as many seem to define intelligence
differently. (so often I hear individuals being called intelligent
simply for being knowledgeable and able to communicate well).
> some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
> then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped
> at the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be
> spontaneously formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows,
> maybe it did, and a C= executive stumbled across it??????)
no, that's kinda stoopid. :)
> BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
> committment to Christ, and am yet to find any conflict between them....!
well, if you're satisfied with your beliefs then you may as well stick
with them.. I'm after the truth no matter how controversial.
--
__
__///
Frank Russell
>From: Kim Fong Ong <kim...@overman.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Amiga CHRISTIAN Users (Pending Bible Software)
>Frank Russell wrote:
>: Secondly, you assert that "intelligence" and "religion" are mutually
>: exclusive. You obviously don't know many intelligent people. Einstein for
>: instance was a committed Christian. Again, within the academic communities I
>: have been involved with, a very high percentage profess to a christian
>: background, and many of the remainder follow other religeous traditions. Your
>: unsupported broad brush comments cause me to pause and wonder at your level of
>: maturity, insight, and experience. I can only assume that you are a very
>: young man.
>Einstein stated that he did not believe in a physical God, but he likes to
>believe that there is some great entity out there that can be God or something
>greater. That in my opinion, put him strictly in the agnostic category. Unless
>an agnostic can be considered as commited Christian, your statement is patently
>wrong!
According to an artiucle in Ex-Nhilo, Einstein, near the end of his life, did
profess belief in God. I cannott verify the accuracy of the source however,
as I note that you also have not been able to place your paraphrase of
Einsteins statements to a specific time/place. Notwithstanding, you will be
aware asa I am that there are a great number of acknowledged "great
thinkers" who have christian backgrounds...
>: Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
>: that the awesome complexity of the Creation resulted from myriads of
>:unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
>: some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
>: then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped at
>: the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be spontaneously
>: formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows, maybe it did, and a
>: C= executive stumbled across it??????)
>I don't see your comparison as valid. It is obvious that you cannot create
>something manmade like a computer with only natural elements. A man has to
>be in that equation somehow. But there is still a possibility for nature to
>create something natural, like men ourselves.
Think it through; when you talk of the "possibility for nature to create", you
simply call God by another name! Your name for God is Nature. Surely your
Nature can create inorganic as well as organic products? My God can. Look at
celestial mechanics, molecular structures etc.
> But man like you and I have evolved through millions of years, if we are the
> machines you described, we
Sorry. That we are "machines" is your assertion. I have said nothing of the
sort.
>would not have gone past the apes. Your proposition has in the first
>place failed as your equations are not logical.
>: BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
>: committment to Christ, and am yet to find any conflict between them......!
>That is good, but that means you should have been more careful with logical
>deductions. Showing that A=B and B=C does not necessary goes on to prove that
>A will necessary equates to C.
Huh???? I am sorry, but you have failed to demonstrate this conclusion in any
way from your posting......
>And I'm not implying you are stupid, but that you have made a mistake here.
Ditto
>--
>Kim Fong Ong --- <kim...@overman.demon.co.uk> <zcw...@ucl.ac.uk>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"Literature will die out, and stupid poetic phrases will remain to drift over
>the world," I remarked. -Milan Kundera, Immortality
Frank Russell
Branko Collin
E...@ballarat.edu.au (Frank Russell) writes:
>
>In article <950509044...@overman.demon.co.uk> Kim Fong Ong <kim...@overman.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>: Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
>>: that the awesome complexity of the Creation resulted from myriads of
> >:unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
>>: some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
>>: then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped at
>>: the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be spontaneously
>>: formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows, maybe it did, and a
>>: C= executive stumbled across it??????)
>
>>I don't see your comparison as valid. It is obvious that you cannot create
>>something manmade like a computer with only natural elements. A man has to
>>be in that equation somehow. But there is still a possibility for nature to
>>create something natural, like men ourselves.
>
>Think it through; when you talk of the "possibility for nature to create", you
>simply call God by another name! Your name for God is Nature. Surely your
call me Branko, they just call God by another name.
It is not the definition of Nature as God that bothers me, though, but the
fact that most religious people expect other people to show their belief
through praying, etc. Praying, as in talking to God. Whilst most people
seen talking to Nature will be locked up in a mental institution.
My religion is science. Science defines truth as something that does exist
but can never be reached. Now there's something I love to believe in.
.......................................................................
. Branko Collin . 'WHOP .
. . whisssssCRAC! .
. // u24...@vm.uci.kun.nl . THUMPA THUMPA' .
. \X/ bco...@mpi.nl (work) . Meccano - Gilette .
.......................................................................
John A Leppart
: We are still examining the market. However, if we do not see at least 50
: reponses (from different people) stating that they would buy such a
: product, we will not even think about it. To date we have 26 people
: expressing interest in such a product.
: If we do receive 50 requests, our course of action would be:
: Examine the time and resources it would take. (including marketing,
: development, and packaging.)
: Determine what it would be necissary to charge. (taking into account
: piracy)
: Examine whether the market would bare the price. (taking into account
: that it should be reasonably priced)
: So, Amiga users...do you really want to use your Amiga as a Bible study
Why dont you stuff i and take it to talt.superstition.feeble.minded
This group is not for medieval matters.
JL
Chris Brown
j.r. gray <jrg...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
>>> * The 2nd _LAW_ of thermal dynamics (everything in a closed system has a
>>> tendency to go from a state of order to a state of disorder) - the closed system
>>> being the universe and the state of disorder being chaos and the state of order
>>> being the complex human body among others - tends to blow away the _THEORY_ of
>>> evolution which claims just the opposite.
>
>Hey, I've read about this is a book by Josh McDowell! I think it was
>called answers or something like that. I read that a while ago though.
>I thought it to be a very logical explanation. Life is the only force of
>nature which contradicts this Law. Therefore, the science of evolution
>seems to be contradicting itself. Either evolution is false, or the 2nd
>*LAW* of thermo dynamics is incorrect.
OK, I know this is off topic, but I thought this needed a response. The so
called laws of nature are not set in stone, they are merely rules which
define the behaviour of a MODEL which science creates of the way the universe
operates. Science advances by making the model more and more accurate. All
these laws do is provide us with a way of approximating real-life situations
through mathematics, etc.
> > > Wrong. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. >
>
>Think about it. If all things go from order to disorder, how can certain
>things go from disorder to order. Something has to give.
Lfe forms consume energy. All this energy (on Earth at least), comes from
the Sun, a large natural fusion reactor which one day will run out. We take
this energy and increase the overall entropy of the universe by using it
to do useful work, BUT, in doing the work, we take useful energy from the
Sun, and turn it into useless energy (entropy). The organisation of matter
into life forms, planetary systems, or anything else, whilst decreasing
disorder locally is more than compensated for by the increase in disorder
globally that such actions produce.
>Evolution has been disproved by many different scientific institutions
There is no validity behind this statement. Consider the following:
1) Mutations DO occur between sucessive generations.
2) Any mutation which enhances the chances of survival of an organism is
more likely to be handed down to future generations.
The above two points are totally factual. Simple observation and common
sense tells us this. Given that there are mutations happening, and that
these mutations are random, and that some of them will result in better
survival traits (such as immunity to a particular disease, etc.), then
evoloution based on natural selection arises as a direct consequence.
Now, since this is SEVERELY off topic, may I suggest that if you want to
discuss this further, you email me?
--
#include <stdio.h> /*<a href=http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/cpb1001/>www</a>*/
main(){char*i="L0[B0BCA7G0BFACIW0BfRAAB0BCACAFR0[BCAFE0LCCAFR0",j,k=0;for(;*i;
*++i==48&&puts(""))do for(j=*i-48>>k&7;j--;)putchar(k+32);while(k^=3);}
/**i="ADD08:::::08:::::08:::::08:::::08:R::08::;9:08::D:08:j:08:7<0997<0jh0"*/
Russ 'Argel' LeBar
: Why dont you stuff i and take it to talt.superstition.feeble.minded
: This group is not for medieval matters.
: JL
This is comp.sys.amiga.misc, the most appropriate group for talking about
possible amiga bible software. Why don't you take your crap to
alt.i.am.stupid.and.tastless.and.a.bigot.
(followup set to alt.flame)
/---Russ-LeBar---+-- Term Toolstrip Imagery Designer --+------S()------\
| /// | c62...@showme.missouri.edu (best) |A1200-6MB-426HD|
|__ /// Dare To | c62...@mizzou1.missouri.edu (good) |MBx1200z |
|\\\/// Dream +--- WWW ---- White Falls ---- URL ---+ 4MB&14mhz881 |
| \XX/ A M I G A| http://www.missouri.edu/~c621412 |USR Sportster |
+^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+
| HomePage features: Kathy Troccoli, Term toolstrip imagery, Artwork...|
| FTP: musie.phlab.missouri.edu in pub/amiga -------- Term beta tester |
\------S()--Argel----------- Opinions are mine & thus CORRECT =) ------/
Mike Slocombe
to download all this religious shite. If you wanna spend
long hours trying to convert people living in the real
world then naff off to alt.screwball.God or whatever.
In fact, if you don't bugger off, I'm going to start
mailing you about the only real form of Worship - FOOTBALL!
Oh, yes, I could go on for hours about how Cardiff City's
Nathan Blake curled that 67th minute winner against Man
City in last years FA Cup 4th Round. Or about the real
salvation needed when your team is Division Three-bound.
Parables, stories, emotion, reverence, praise and damnation,
football's got 'em all!
So, you've been warned! Any more of this nonsense, and I'll
be telling you all about Cardiff's 92/93 double season, when
they were promoted as Div3 champs, and won the Welsh Cup....
in great detail! ;-)
There's one good thing about religious sorts on the Internet..
...they can't wedge their foot in your door!
bye
Mike
Neal G. Gilbertson
In article <009902BE...@netins.net>, tem...@netins.net writes:
> So much of the world's mess is caused
> by your religion and belief in your god. To end religion all
> together would of been to end most of the wars in man's history.
tempest,tempest,tempest!
Why Bother?
Why go on?
What have you to look forward to?
Why take that around-the-world cruse? Since as soon as you die,
you won't have any fond memories of by-gone days when your
so-called life had some meaning, so why do it.
Whats the use? When all you do will be as nothing to you.
You could get killed unexpectantly or worse, die slowly by some
disease. You wouldn't even know the relief of having finally died
since you would no longer exist.
Or, Maybe you are going to leave a legacy and others will say "what
a great guy tempest was!".
What good will that do you though? You can always say "I helped the
cause of mankind towards a better world"! So what! what good does
that do you? You will no longer exist so you can't say those imortal
words and you won't be around to enjoy your "better world" or hear
anyone saying what a "great contributor" you were and what a great
world it turned out to be because of you. Or... maybe not.
It wouldn't matter, It's your universe for a while, but when you die
your universe will be gone.
You are the one who believes in fantasy.
A person who believes in God has somthing to believe in that gives
a tangable reason for our existance: The word of God.
This is, believe it or not, an explanation for our existance.
The theory of evolution does not do this. It is a dirivative
of somebodys idea and like the theory it is it could have evoloved
into any manifestation. You might then say "This word of God could have
been a figment of someone's imagination". True,
But what an imagination!
Your atheistic beliefs are most likely based on the
theory of evolution. Some people do this.
You would be better off being an atheist for the pure reason of
non-belief rather than being one because evolution now "explains
our existance".
You are a religious person! Most people believe in God but
You believe in the religion of evolution.
It is a belief system put forth and sustained by the scientific
and academic cults of this world to support their own atheistic
beliefs. So called intellectuals!!!
Why don't you deeply ponder life. Stop and think about
the upshot. You may come to your senses!
NG
Neal G. Gilbertson
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.950509134946.20724B-100000@utkux1>, Bruce McFarling <brmcf@utkux1> writes:
> I might buy something like that. Your are going to have other
> stuff one the platter too, like the Tao Teh Ching, the Bagahvad Gita
> (sp?), the Koran, etc., aren't you? It would seem silly to waste a good
> search and cross reference engine on only one world religion, when you've
> got that storage space on a CD-ROM.
Looking for a fight eh? Trying to start one?
Subject says: "Bible".
Get your own CD-ROM.
NG
Russ 'Argel' LeBar
: Interesting post, however you got the wrong person, it was a stupid
: religious person that first flamed those that didn't believe in his
: fantasy of gods. So you should go back and re-read the thread and flame
: your fellow cult member for doing it. So much of the world's mess is caused
: by your religion and belief in your god. To end religion all togehter would
: of been to end most of the wars in man's history. 'Let people be'. Yes
: interesting, since religious people don't follow that statement at all.
: They don't let anyone be.
Quite interesting. So, his flame gives you the right to flame and also
lumpall religeous people in with him?
Also, the flame war/discussion/debate started when one of your cult
memebers (hey, if you wanna play by those rules, so will I) flamed a
legitimate post about Amiga Bible software. Now, if you people had kept
your big mouths shut, this thread would have been shorter AND ON TOPIC.
Bruce McFarling
> Why Bother?
> Why go on?
I agree. Just like Buddha said, all life is sorrow, all sorrow
comes from desire, and to escape from sorrow, you must escape from desire.
Like the desire to keep this pointless thread going until June. Well, if
its *exclusively* the bible (you got my hopes up by listing the Koran and
apocrycpoha), you can uncheck my name. I'll wait till a good Concordance
hits the internet.
Bruce McFarling, Knoxville
br...@utkux1.utk.edu
Matt Pierce
: In an article, E...@ballarat.edu.au (Frank Russell) writes:
[deletia]
: Perhaps Einstein didn't take time out to really think about it?
Or perhaps he took more time and a statistical look at it before
arriving at his conclusion.
: I don't know but many forms of intervention to an individuals beliefs
: certainly exist. (ones upbringing would be very influencial).
: oh and I'm soon to be 25 if that really makes a difference...
: I came to my conclusions about god around 10 yrs of age and it would
: have been earlier if it weren't for the fear of dying and going to hell.
: makes me wonder how many choose to believe 'just in case'.
: of course at that stage I didn't know much about religion or evolution
: but at the time all I really needed to know was, do I believe in magic?
I don't believe in magic, yet am a Christian, I think that it can all
be explained in scientific terms, eventually.
[deletia]
: Definately, it sure makes a hell of a lot more sense than a creator.
: How about the fact that Earth has been around for billions of years
: yet the bible states otherwise? do you really believe everything
: the bible says no matter the evidence against it?
I don't know about others, but the bible was written by men inspired
by God, so it is subject to errors. Try explaining to an 8 year old
how a transistor works and have him/her write it down complete with
diagrams and such, you will have problems :)
: Oh and by some incredible coincidence, some guy on Donahue is basically
: confirming what occured to me yesterday in that different races have
: varying intellectual ability.
: My theory went a step further though as there's a reason to everything.
: Negros have been found to be more athletic than other races but they
: score lower in IQ tests than whites, females are believed to be more
: emotional/intuitive while males are more logical, (the reason why the
: great majority of inventions and scientific breakthroughs have been
: achieved by men).
I hope you are wearing asbestos sunscreen and clothing, I can visualize
the searing flames now. One of the main reasons that white guys
score higher on average than non-white guys in the IQ tests is that
the tests are written from the white-guy point of view.
: The Japanese would be one of the most intelligent races, not of design
: but as their environment has stimulated the process of logical thought
: their mind has simply evolved.
: 'While Japanese are no longer very much involved in religion, the great
: majority of undevelopelod cultures are'.
[deletia]
Do I hear a striker scraping out there :)
Matt Pierce
: In article <3odn4a$p...@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DG Coombes) writes:
: >tem...@netins.net wrote:
[deletia]
: Interesting post, however you got the wrong person, it was a stupid
: religious person that first flamed those that didn't believe in his
: fantasy of gods. So you should go back and re-read the thread and flame
: your fellow cult member for doing it. So much of the world's mess is caused
: by your religion and belief in your god. To end religion all togehter would
: of been to end most of the wars in man's history. 'Let people be'. Yes
: interesting, since religious people don't follow that statement at all.
: They don't let anyone be.
Get your facts straight! It was a 'stupid' athiest that got the ball
rolling here. Start over on the thread before making such assinine
claims.
tem...@netins.net
>tem...@netins.net wrote:
>
>
>I'm currently studying a degree in Biochemistry and a lot of evolution is
>tot. There is evidence for it and it has been seen that
>survival-of-the-fittest plays an important role in a species existance but
>it is FAR from the whole truth. Anyway, this isn't the place for this. The
>original thread concerned only Christian users and to reply in order to slag
>off someone's belief, no matter how stupid it might sound to you, is typical
>of the lack of tolerance that causes so much of the world's mess. Let
>people be and if you don't agree then ignore them.
>
>__________________________Sig-a-lig-a-lig__________________________
>David Coombes (u3...@keele.ac.uk)
Kim Fong Ong
:
Alright, this does it.
I for one, will be boycotting this CDROM.
And all sensible peace-loving people should consider following my example too.
--
Kim Fong Ong --- <kim...@overman.demon.co.uk> <zcw...@ucl.ac.uk>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And so let us believe in our friendship in the stars, even if we did have
to be enemies on earth. -Frederich Nietzsche, The Gay Science
Bill Kindel
> Looking for a fight eh? Trying to start one?
> Subject says: "Bible".
> Get your own CD-ROM.
Kim Fong Ong replies:
> Alright, this does it. I for one, will be boycotting this CDROM. And all
> sensible peace-loving people should consider following my example too.
Gentlemen, GENTLEMEN!
First off, NEITHER of you speaks for the company that is considering the
publication of this product. All SimilaSoft wanted to know was how many
people were interested in buying the product if they produced it. If it
meets your needs, then PLEASE say so. If it meets SOME of your needs but
you need something MORE, then PLEASE say THAT, too. If you DON'T need
it, then you really don't have anything to say (here). Let's take the
vile elsewhere and spare the innocent bystanders.
Thank you.
Mike Hall
> >BTW, most of what I said above was just a lead up to my dig at religion
> >and although I believe religion does serve some purpose in society, I
> >also consider anyone that truly believes in a god/creator to be not a
> >very logical thinker.
>
> >Anyway, hopefully (depending mostly on participation of my survey)
> >we'll soon see if this outrageous theory of mine is correct. :)
>
> Well to elaborate Mike, you have at least two things to learn initially;
> Firstly, where on earth did you get your wacky idea that "high end" users
> are not software pirates? My experience at the University here is that
> there is absolutely no evidence to support such a thesis.
I didn't say that but it's pretty obvious that someone with money has
the ability to purchase software while someone without does not.
> Secondly, you assert that "intelligence" and "religion" are mutually
> exclusive. You obviously don't know many intelligent people. Einstein for
> instance was a committed Christian. Again, within the academic communities
> I have been involved with, a very high percentage profess to a christian
> background, and many of the remainder follow other religeous traditions.
> Your unsupported broad brush comments cause me to pause and wonder at your
> level of maturity, insight, and experience. I can only assume that you
> are a very young man.
Perhaps Einstein didn't take time out to really think about it?
I don't know but many forms of intervention to an individuals beliefs
certainly exist. (ones upbringing would be very influencial).
oh and I'm soon to be 25 if that really makes a difference...
I came to my conclusions about god around 10 yrs of age and it would
have been earlier if it weren't for the fear of dying and going to
hell. makes me wonder how many choose to believe 'just in case'.
of course at that stage I didn't know much about religion or
evolution but at the time all I really needed to know was, do I
believe in magic?
> Also, on the subject of "Logic", do you really find more logic in believing
> that the awesome complexity of the Creation resulted from myriads of
> unconnected cosmic accidents and co-incidences rather than as the result of
Definately, it sure makes a hell of a lot more sense than a creator.
How about the fact that Earth has been around for billions of years
yet the bible states otherwise? do you really believe everything
the bible says no matter the evidence against it?
Oh and by some incredible coincidence, some guy on Donahue is
basically confirming what occured to me yesterday in that different
races have varying intellectual ability.
My theory went a step further though as there's a reason to
everything.
Negros have been found to be more athletic than other races but they
score lower in IQ tests than whites, females are believed to be more
emotional/intuitive while males are more logical, (the reason why the
great majority of inventions and scientific breakthroughs have been
achieved by men).
The Japanese would be one of the most intelligent races, not of design
but as their environment has stimulated the process of logical thought
their mind has simply evolved.
'While Japanese are no longer very much involved in religion, the
great majority of undevelopelod cultures are'.
Although my attack on religion was of their intelligence the survey
topic was 'logic & religion' as many seem to define intelligence
differently. (so often I hear individuals being called intelligent
simply for being knowledgeable and able to communicate well).
> some form of external design? Wow! You should have no trouble believing
> then that if a pile of silicon, metal oxides and resins were to be dumped
> at the bottom of the garden, in time an Amiga computer would be
> spontaneously formed, a much simpler proposition surely? (Who knows,
> maybe it did, and a C= executive stumbled across it??????)
no, that's kinda stoopid. :)
> BTW I am a tertiary educated, "high end" Amiga user who has a deep
> committment to Christ, and am yet to find any conflict between them....!
well, if you're satisfied with your beliefs then you may as well stick
with them.. I'm after the truth no matter how controversial.
,\\ike Hall m...@OntheNet.com.au
Jamie Knight
>:
>:
>: Looking for a fight eh? Trying to start one?
>: Subject says: "Bible".
>: Get your own CD-ROM.
>: NG
Nice to see our religious friends promoting a bit of world peace.. ;) ;)
>Alright, this does it.
>I for one, will be boycotting this CDROM.
>And all sensible peace-loving people should consider following my example too.
I'll be ignoring this CD-ROM completely because I'm not interested - is
that OK?
>--
>Kim Fong Ong --- <kim...@overman.demon.co.uk> <zcw...@ucl.ac.uk>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>And so let us believe in our friendship in the stars, even if we did have
>to be enemies on earth. -Frederich Nietzsche, The Gay Science
-------------------------------------+--------------------------------
Jamie Knight | jam...@hwcces.demon.co.uk
Environmental Services Dept | /// A1200 020-14/882-33
Hereford & Worcester County Council | /// 2MChip, 4MFast
Worcester, UK | \\\/// and a 200Mb Hard disk on
All views are my own, etc, etc | \XX/ the table next to it..
What do you mean Application Error? I thought Windows was in
protected mode..
Bruce A. Rothwell
-------------
>Alright, this does it.
>I for one, will be boycotting this CDROM.
>And all sensible peace-loving people should consider following my example >too.
Oh, I see... you mean somebody doesn't have the right to develop and sell
something that has to do with Christianity simply because YOU don't
like it?
Go ahead, boycott the thing... more than likely (because you are so
resistant to Christianity) you wouldn't learn anything from it anyway!
But, at least stop having the attitude that only people like you have
rights!
Sheesh... some peoples kids...
--
Bruce Rothwell / baro...@cca.rockwell.com / Cedar Rapids, IA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rockwell Int'l/CCA Employee by day......... Songwriter by night. <><
J. Qualls
"you're an idiot" flaming. As such, here goes:
In many of these posts regarding the 3rd law of thermodynamics, many seem to
not realize that the mere presence of energy, such as the sun, does not
increase order. It is only the _intelligent_ application of energy that can
fight entropy in a local region. Indeed, if this were not so, there would
exist some form of life in the sun. Or perhaps a nuclear explosion would
produce something other than devastation.
Also, evolutionists require an Earth that is billions of years old. There is
no proof that this is true, but if you start from the perspective that it is
true, you can interpret some evidence to support the position.
One bit of data that casts doubt on the evolutionist's position, however, is
that the Earth's rotation is gradually slowing at a constant rate. If this
rate is projected backwards in time enough to account for the required
billion+ years, the planet could not hold together. This assumes that the same
rate of decay existed for those many years.
An evolutionist might point to Carbon dating as proof of a billion+ year old
Earth. This also requires that the rate of decay of the particular isotope be
constant. The method has been shown repeatedly to be seriously flawed by
dating objects of known recent origin as extremely ancient.
There is more, but the case for evolution as a force in creating life (not
altering some of it's attributes) is extremely weak and, as far as I am
concerned, is wrong. Unless someone can come up with a third alternative, then
I must accept creation by some intelligent being outside the boundaries and
laws of this universe.
As for God using Amigas. . . Since God cannot be bound by time, He probably
uses the last/best Amiga ever made :-). Of course, we have yet to see that
Amiga.
As for the original intent of this post: I can say that a Bible reference on
CD would be quite nice. I would probably purchase it. If it contained the
original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, as well as modern English translations,
then I would purchase it. These things exist for other platforms. Perhaps a
program to just read their data would be sufficient.
JDQ
Branko Collin
mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au (Mike Hall) writes:
>Oh and by some incredible coincidence, some guy on Donahue is basically
>confirming what occured to me yesterday in that different races have
>varying intellectual ability.
>
>My theory went a step further though as there's a reason to everything.
>
>Negros have been found to be more athletic than other races but they
>score lower in IQ tests than whites, females are believed to be more
>emotional/intuitive while males are more logical, (the reason why the
>great majority of inventions and scientific breakthroughs have been
>achieved by men).
>
>The Japanese would be one of the most intelligent races, not of design
>but as their environment has stimulated the process of logical thought
>their mind has simply evolved.
>
come up with such nonsense? IQ-tests are a way of measuring your
white-male-ness. How odd people of a different colour (and indeed sex)
score lower, don't you think?
What do you consider to be logical thought? When you and I say "you can
have this or that apple", we actual use an exclusive or (XOR).
Whenever the word 'logic' is used in a popular sense, it means the
ability to reason. This ability has nothing to do with being emotional
or intuitive, and certainly not with being able to do great inventions,
as all geniuses must be both intuitive and good reasoners.
The fact that less women did great inventions (if indeed they did, as
the definition of 'great invention' is still a white male one) has to
do with million of other things. To give an on topic example:
The inventor of computer-programming was a woman, called Ada Lovelace.
Her mentor, the inventor of the computer, called Charles Babbage, was
more of a craftsman than a genius. He knew how to put a machine
together, but that was it. To even make a calculating device he needed
to build in a memory, which he did. Although very clever, he was not
a genius. It took genius to recognise what Babbage had done. Lovelace
possesed this kind of genius, and if she had not been around, Charles
Babbage might not even have been around. Now, Ada Lovelace may have
been exception to the rule that women are not as 'logical' (read:
intelligent) as men. However, she was a confirmation to the rule
that women were not allowed to be as intelligent as men. Her mother
brought her into contact with Babbage, because Ada was a very headstrong
girl, which was thought to be a bad characteristic for a woman. Her
stubbornes had to be ironed out and it was thought to help in these
days if she was exposed to all kind of 'real manly' sciences like
math and logic, hence Babbage being her mentor. (BTW, I am not very
sure about my statements in the last two lines, so if anyone would
care to elaborate). Of course, this treatment backfired, and that
is why you are now allowed to use a computer to air your
racist and sexist remarks.
Racist? Sexist? Isn't it highly likely that evolution would not just
change the colour of ones skin and ones sex, but also would influence
intelligence, emotionality and so on?
It certainly ought to be taken into consideration, but as long as we
have no way of even imagining the role culture plays, making bold
off-topic (which was religion and/or computing) statements about
genetical influences IS racist and sexist.
Sir, I loath you.
Mike Slocombe
: In an article, E...@ballarat.edu.au (Frank Russell) writes:
: > >BTW, most of what I said above was just a lead up to my dig at religion
: > >and although I believe religion does serve some purpose in society, I
: > >also consider anyone that truly believes in a god/creator to be not a
OK, OK, I warned you. I asked you nicely to stop all this religious
tosh, and you've still carried on...
Well, I'm a fair man. If you don't stop all this God business immediately
I'll be posting a daily account of Cardiff City's glory years, starting
from 1911. ( I should point out that my definition of "glory" is
finishing anything above 15th in Division 4, so there's a lot to
write about!).
So, there you have it. If you want to discuss religion in all
it's forms that's fine by me. Just so long as you accept that for me
that means Cardiff City FC. In All Their Glory. And I'll be only too
happy to go on and on and on and on....
See ya
Mike ;-)
Roland Larsson
But my patience is limited, and there are just too much nonsense from some
people.
So here goes...
In <3p0i8q$t...@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> JDQU...@lnusde.delcoelect.com writes:
> I much prefer a rational conversation to all of this "you're a fool" or
> "you're an idiot" flaming. As such, here goes:
Agreed.
> In many of these posts regarding the 3rd law of thermodynamics, many seem to
> not realize that the mere presence of energy, such as the sun, does not
> increase order. It is only the _intelligent_ application of energy that can
> fight entropy in a local region.
Not necessarily, but that's a minor (?) point.
> Indeed, if this were not so, there would
> exist some form of life in the sun. Or perhaps a nuclear explosion would
> produce something other than devastation.
I don't know what you're getting at here.
> Also, evolutionists require an Earth that is billions of years old. There is
> no proof that this is true, but if you start from the perspective that it is
> true, you can interpret some evidence to support the position.
There_most_certainly_is! Radioactive dating (NOT C-14) does it.
> One bit of data that casts doubt on the evolutionist's position, however, is
> that the Earth's rotation is gradually slowing at a constant rate. If this
> rate is projected backwards in time enough to account for the required
> billion+ years, the planet could not hold together. This assumes that the same
> rate of decay existed for those many years.
Which is an non-trivial assumption. BTW, how large is this deceleration, how
and when was it measured, and what are the uncertainties? These are very
important scientific questions one has to ask about any measurement.
> An evolutionist might point to Carbon dating as proof of a billion+ year old
> Earth. This also requires that the rate of decay of the particular isotope be
> constant. The method has been shown repeatedly to be seriously flawed by
> dating objects of known recent origin as extremely ancient.
If he knows what he is talking about, he should not bring up C-14 dating as
an argument for a several-billion-year-old Earth. The half life of C-14 is
on the order of thousands of years, NOT billions. Hence, it can only be used
for these shorter time spans. Furthermore, the C-14 method involves some
assumptions about the abundance of C-14 in the atmosphere (at historical times)
that are by no means trivial. Radioactive dating, using other isotopes in
minerals do not have this kind of uncertainty, and have much longer half
lives, on the order of billions of years.
The decay rates of radioactive isotopes are, as far as we know, constant.
There are no experimental signs that seem to contradict this. Nor are there
any logical/theoretical. It is an inherent property of the single isotope,
and all isotopes of that particular kind are identical.
> There is more, but the case for evolution as a force in creating life (not
> altering some of it's attributes) is extremely weak and, as far as I am
> concerned, is wrong.
Your conclusion is based on limited knowledge of the scientific methods, and
probably heavily biased towards your beliefs. This is not to say the we know
everything there is to know, but rather that your criticism is rather weak.
> Unless someone can come up with a third alternative, then
> I must accept creation by some intelligent being outside the boundaries and
> laws of this universe.
This is what I cannot accept in my personal philosophy. Just because I do not
know some of the answers, does not mean that I have to _invent_ them. I do
not know what "the meaning of life" is, or answers to similar questions. I
also do not know of the existance of divine entities, other universes or other
realities with different laws of nature. And I am not going to waste my time
and energy trying to answer things that are impossible to answer with any
degree of certainty.
Roland
--------------------------------------------------------------
Roland Larsson |
Bartol Research Institute | "My brain hurts."
University of Delaware |
Newark, DE 19716, USA | - Mr. Gumby
|
lar...@bartol.udel.edu |
Kristofer D. Dale
: In article <mike...@fulink.edex.edu.au>
: mi...@fulink.edex.edu.au (Mike Hall) writes:
:
: >Oh and by some incredible coincidence, some guy on Donahue is basically
: >confirming what occured to me yesterday in that different races have
: >varying intellectual ability.
: have no way of even imagining the role culture plays, making bold
: off-topic (which was religion and/or computing) statements about
: genetical influences IS racist and sexist.
For any IQ measured across racial & cultural boundaries to have
scientific and moral validity, it must include input from all
involved. What scores do you think white upper class urbanites would
have if their so-called intelligence were being measured by
intellectuals from the Black Panther movement? Aesop drew a parallel in
his fable about a man showing a lion a magnificent statue of Hercules
tearing the jaw's of an attacking lion apart, as proof of man's
superiority. The lion gazed upon the sculpture for a moment, then
replied that, although the execution was masterful, it would be more
impressive had it been created by another lion! I wonder if Aesop
would have accomplished more had he had access to an Amiga... ;^]
"Live from comp.amiga.misc.religious.bigotry, it's Saturday Night!"
--
barefoot
joe solinsky
: Hearing those quotes about 'what a great person I was' is such pride
: driven dribble and clearly shows how vain Christians are. Born Again are
: a better shade since they realize that not everyone has to be 'saved' the
: same day they were. But altogether, it shows a certain hierarchy which
My goodness!
I want to hear about that guy's football stories, let's keep this up,
shall we? I mean, if Donahue knew we were talking about him, he still wouldn't
ask Dave Joiner to appear on his show. (Dave Joiner was at E^3 yesterday).
I took the SAT test only 5 years ago, and this is my conclusion: if they had
let me take that test with my Amiga, I'd be a regular genius.
Why doesn't everyone take this short quiz and mail the result to Donnahue?
1: how old is the Universe?
25 years (that's how old you are, not necessarily 25 years)
Billions of years (the earth held together better without dissenting
opinions, so rotational energy was not in place)
under 20,000 years
2: Is there a God?
Ask Him.
No. Yes. Ask me when I'm dead.
(other)
3: Do we want another CD title published for the Amiga, regardless of whether
it's the Koran, the Tao of Pooh, or the repair manual for a Triumph TR-7 ?
Yes
No. I work for Microsoft and hate Amiga Users because they are too
snobby to succumb to bad programming/ slow programs.
4: What is the point of telling someone they don't have a clue about the way
things are?
It makes me feel better because I got a bad score on the SAT and I'm
still white.
I'm evangelising in a newsgroup. Isn't that different?
I secretly hate the fraternity that exists between Amiga users, because
it has made me hold onto this stupid computer, and so through
some vexing posts, I intend to divide Amiga users, first by
their faith (or lack of), and then by their SAT scores, and soon
by race and gender. I draw paychecks from Hell, BTW.
So, how did you score?
rather than posting, mail me, and I promise to compile the results and include
anything which I think is sufficiently original enough to post. Subjective, yes
it is, but so is Donnahue.
-Joe Solinsky
PS: if Donnahue is on during the daytime, does that mean the guy who posted
about it does not have a 9-5 job? Or does he set his VCR so he won't miss
daytime TV? Or does he watch during work? Maybe he watches because he's the
bloke who does the tape swapping at channel Z.
--
. . . __
/\ |\/| | / ' /\
/--\| | | \__7/--\
/__ __\
"Anything is Possible"
(theme quote from Escom of Germany, new owners of the Amiga)
--April 21, 1995--
Adrian Flaherty
In article <D8FKt...@lazrus.cca.rockwell.com> nggi...@cca.rockwell.com (Neal G. Gilbertson) writes:
>
> In article <009902BE...@netins.net>, tem...@netins.net writes:
> > So much of the world's mess is caused
> > by your religion and belief in your god. To end religion all
> > together would of been to end most of the wars in man's history.
>
> tempest,tempest,tempest!
>
> Why Bother?
> Why go on?
> What have you to look forward to?
> Why take that around-the-world cruse? Since as soon as you die,
Oh, sorry people, I never meant to wonder into this religious newsgroup. Can
someone point the way to comp.sys.amiga.misc? I am a little lost.
--
----------------------------------//---------------------------------------
Adrian adr...@ebc1.demon.co.uk // You can't hide, cause I am reality
Ealing Broadway, London UK \\ //You're birthright is, a world of insanity
------------------------------\X/------------------------------------------
===========================================================================
Bill Bohn
: that do you? You will no longer exist so you can't say those imortal
: words and you won't be around to enjoy your "better world" or hear
: anyone saying what a "great contributor" you were and what a great
: world it turned out to be because of you. Or... maybe not.
Hearing those quotes about 'what a great person I was' is such pride
driven dribble and clearly shows how vain Christians are. Born Again are
a better shade since they realize that not everyone has to be 'saved' the
same day they were. But altogether, it shows a certain hierarchy which
does not exist in true faith. You if you know inner truth , then you
have your own scriptures to write. Your own lessons to learn. And no,
we are not all on the same page spirtually, some have lived more lives
than others...
: A person who believes in God has somthing to believe in that gives
: a tangable reason for our existance: The word of God.
It is your time to have a beilef of a figurehead. But less and less
people are in need of that symbol. Inner truth is what you must battle
to find, and forget about all the diversions that lead you away.
: This is, believe it or not, an explanation for our existance.
: The theory of evolution does not do this. It is a dirivative
Your form of GOD is not the only way it travels. The faith in knowing
shines the light inside all of us.
: Why don't you deeply ponder life. Stop and think about
: the upshot. You may come to your senses!
Why don't you help people find a way of life that is their path and not
try spread one belief into many, but rather many beliefs to all..
Jean-Guy D. Speton
: A=B You are a Frog.
: B=C Frogs hop from lilie pad to lilie pad.
: A=C You hop from lilie pad to lilie pad.
: Logic is not the be all end all of the universe. If the first statement is false
: the thing collapses like a house of cards.
: Your first statement is God dosn't exist. You Can't prove that.
: My first statement is God exist. I can't prove that.
: Thats why they call it Faith.
: Please take these petty arguments to alt.religion.whatever and return this thread
: to its original purpose which was a call to INTERESTED users about Bible study
: software to contact the company. ----------
: As for the rest of you I feel sorry that you have Educated yourself right out of
: the desire to find Gods Love for you. Maybe someday you will WISE up, till then I
: will pray for you.
Statements like that want atheists want to pray for *you* (so to speak).
After having just claimed you cannot prove God exists, that your belief
exists on faith, how can you in good conscience end your message with a
claim that there is no question he does exist? You're saying neither
side can be proven, yet your side is undeniably the right one.
The big problem I see with 'belief' is that it in large part, for many
people, stems from attributing an unknown to acts of God. With no
proof one way or the other, how did theism start? People saw something
they couldn't explain and attributed it to a higher being. Wrong wrong
wrong. If people can give me one single reason why they believe in God,
I'd be very impressed. Foundationless faith is not a reason.
Unexplainable phenomena is not a reason.
Rant mode off.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jean-Guy Speton (jsp...@wlu.edu) "Dogs bark at a person whom they do
http://wlu.edu/~jspeton/homepage.html not know." -- Heraclitus
Mike Hall
>For any IQ measured across racial & cultural boundaries to have
>scientific and moral validity, it must include input from all
>involved. What scores do you think white upper class urbanites would
>have if their so-called intelligence were being measured by
>intellectuals from the Black Panther movement? Aesop drew a parallel in
>his fable about a man showing a lion a magnificent statue of Hercules
>tearing the jaw's of an attacking lion apart, as proof of man's
>superiority. The lion gazed upon the sculpture for a moment, then
>replied that, although the execution was masterful, it would be more
>impressive had it been created by another lion! I wonder if Aesop
>would have accomplished more had he had access to an Amiga... ;^]
yeah, that was brought up on the show, the professor was convinced
the test(s)? were completely unbiased, one question being:
given the following: 2,3,5,9,17,__ what's next in the sequence?
I can imagine most if not all the other questions would have been
along these lines.
,\\ike Hall m...@OntheNet.com.au
DG Coombes
: tem...@netins.net wrote:
: : In article <3odn4a$p...@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DG Coombes) writes:
: : >tem...@netins.net wrote:
: [deletia]
: : your fellow cult member for doing it. So much of the world's mess is caused
: : by your religion and belief in your god. To end religion all togehter would
: : of been to end most of the wars in man's history. 'Let people be'. Yes
: : interesting, since religious people don't follow that statement at all.
: : They don't let anyone be.
Arrrrgggghhh!!!! Firstly, this isn't meant to be here and people are
getting very annoyed that this hasn't left. However, even though I don't
want to proliferate this thread any further, I feel I must correct whoever
wrote this and so many others in my second point of the day.
RELIGION has killed no one. PEOPLE kill people. It just takes ONE person,
be it the Pope or Hitler, to convince people that they should be killing
others, and then off we go cutting up whoever.
The TRUTH behind religion is that whether organised or not, it promotes a
way of life that benefits EVERYONE if ONLY people would do as it says. For
example, Christian law dictates that "Thou shalt not kill" and so all those
who fought in the Crusades were not living as they have been told. The Pope
actually said if they killed some Muslems then they would be forgiven ALL
their wrongs. He was lying, and being very human, but he was NOT being
religious so if you want to complain about anything, complain about peoples
behaviour and lack of self control and prejudices and whatever that RELIGION
says we should not have.
Now please go away.
__________________________Sig-a-lig-a-lig__________________________
David Coombes (u3...@keele.ac.uk)
Accursed Leader of the Dalek Holiday '95 Tourist Agency
Head Honcho of the Mongol Hordes' UK Summer Tour
DG Coombes
: Patrick K. Huckelberry (ac...@detroit.freenet.org) wrote:
: Yeah, and RTG running perfectly with 100% compatibility on a 24bit
: googlepixel display able to blit whole screens at a framerate of
: your choice. Oh yeah, and with true CD quality sound :)
What's a googlepixel?
Mike Slocombe
: bare...@nmia.com (Kristofer D. Dale) wrote:
: >For any IQ measured across racial & cultural boundaries to have
: >scientific and moral validity, it must include input from all
Well, I was reasonable. I warned you. Nicely. I was fair and patient,
and asked you to kindly desist waffling on about your religious beliefs.
But would you listen? Nay, Nay and thrice Nay. My wise words, shining like
a beacon in a hostile night have been shunned, and I have been cast out
into the wilderness. Or something.
So, now it's my turn to talk about my religion. And that's Cardiff City FC.
And I bring many tales. Stories passed down through the generations.
Stories of wonder, stories of pathos and occasional bathos, stories of
Olympian highs and Devilish lows. Heaven and Hell in 90 minutes.
So, where shall I start? That exciting 0-0 with Northampton two years ago?
Or perhaps, I could thrill you all with how I found Nirvana (the state
of mind not the band. Although they might have been there as well. Possibly)
at Chesterfield, when the mighty Blues went 4-2 up to storm to the top of
Division Three. Or perhaps I could share with you the woes of relegation,
the inner trials and self doubt of facing defeat after defeat.
Perhaps, I could ponder over the tales of the ancient ones. The 11 men,
brave and true, who faced the might of Arsenal in the 1927 FA Cup Final
and triumphed against all the odds.
Hmmm...no, my religion is more understanding than most. I figure that you
don't really want to hear the Word of The Great Eddie May ( manager),
and I respect that. On one condition.
No more religious tosh, if you please, or I WILL be retelling, in
MICROSCOPIC detail, many, many stories of lower league football.
The faces, the players, the beers, the interminable train journeys
(with exact train times, class of loco, and condensed carriage history),
the highs, the lows, the mind-bending drugs ( v Brighton), in fact,
just about any detail I can remember.
So there we have it. I'm sure even God would approve of my fair-mindedness
in this matter.
You want to fill up this newsgroup with philisophical tales of Gods and
Men, well that's just fine by me. I'm easy going.
Just so long as you don't mind if I fill it up with tales of Cardiff City FC.
"To each, their own God" as someone famous once said .'Least I think it
was someone famous. Or maybe it was that bloke who'd had too much acid
last night. Or that old bloke in the pub, just before he fell over....
See ya
Mike
Mike Hall
>: >Oh and by some incredible coincidence, some guy on Donahue is basically
>: >confirming what occured to me yesterday in that different races have
>: >varying intellectual ability.
>:
>: It certainly ought to be taken into consideration, but as long as we
>: have no way of even imagining the role culture plays, making bold
>: off-topic (which was religion and/or computing) statements about
>: genetical influences IS racist and sexist.
weird, I only recieved this in the form of someone elses quote.
anyway, would my statements still be considered racist if I
were to say that I believe the race to which I belong is not
the most evolved?
,\\ike Hall m...@OntheNet.com.au
Robert Owen Raine
jsp...@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Jean-Guy D. Speton) wrote:
>Robert Owen Raine (ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu) wrote:
>: A=B You are a Frog.
>: B=C Frogs hop from lilie pad to lilie pad.
>: A=C You hop from lilie pad to lilie pad.
>: Logic is not the be all end all of the universe. If the first statement is false
>: the thing collapses like a house of cards.
>: Your first statement is God dosn't exist. You Can't prove that.
>: My first statement is God exist. I can't prove that.
>: Thats why they call it Faith.
>: Please take these petty arguments to alt.religion.whatever and return this thread
>: to its original purpose which was a call to INTERESTED users about Bible study
>: software to contact the company. ----------
>: As for the rest of you I feel sorry that you have Educated yourself right out of
>: the desire to find Gods Love for you. Maybe someday you will WISE up, till then I
>: will pray for you.
>
>Statements like that want atheists want to pray for *you* (so to speak).
>After having just claimed you cannot prove God exists, that your belief
>exists on faith, how can you in good conscience end your message with a
>claim that there is no question he does exist? You're saying neither
>side can be proven, yet your side is undeniably the right one.
>
was right, but you sound pretty sure of yourself.
>The big problem I see with 'belief' is that it in large part, for many
>people, stems from attributing an unknown to acts of God. With no
>proof one way or the other, how did theism start? People saw something
>they couldn't explain and attributed it to a higher being. Wrong wrong
>wrong. If people can give me one single reason why they believe in God,
I'm sure glad that you Know the answer to every question in the universe.
Please explain to me and the rest of the chemist in the world
"hybridization", tell all the High energy physicist in the world to stop
the search for the top quark you have the data that proves it right in your
back pocket. The arrogance of some atheiest to think that all religious
people are stupid little sheep.
I don't see Religion and Science as being Juxtaposed. I call science the
search into the mind of God. I applaud and encourage the endevours of the
scientific community. And I hate to have to tell you this there are a lot
of people just like me.
>I'd be very impressed. Foundationless faith is not a reason.
>Unexplainable phenomena is not a reason.
Your inability to consider an unproven hypotoesis tells me you have more
faith in your belief's then in scientific method. You know they still
call it the Theory of Relativity. If it makes you feel any better call it
the Theory of Religion. Whats in a name would not a rose by any other name
not smell as sweet.
All this dosn't matter this is C.S.A.MISC this discussion dosn't belong here.
take it to alt.religion.whatever.
----------------------PLEASE END THIS THREAD------------------------------
\|/
@ @
------------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------
Only Amiga Makes it Happen Bob Raine
The computer for the creative mind Michigan State University
Make Up Your Own Mind Physics Astronomy Dept.
Amiga / The Alternative Ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu
Escom: " ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael van Elst
>Also, evolutionists require an Earth that is billions of years old. There is
>no proof that this is true, but if you start from the perspective that it is
>true, you can interpret some evidence to support the position.
You cannot prove anything. It could all be a big hoax of Her.
>billion+ years, the planet could not hold together. This assumes that the same
>rate of decay existed for those many years.
Yes, it "assumes".
>An evolutionist might point to Carbon dating as proof of a billion+ year old
>Earth. This also requires that the rate of decay of the particular isotope be
>constant. The method has been shown repeatedly to be seriously flawed by
>dating objects of known recent origin as extremely ancient.
The method cannot be used to find the age of the earth..
>I must accept creation by some intelligent being outside the boundaries and
>laws of this universe.
And you can prove that ? Or find minimal evidence. You cannot say: evolution
is wrong because you cannot prove it if you do believe in something that
you cannot prove either.
>then I would purchase it. These things exist for other platforms. Perhaps a
>program to just read their data would be sufficient.
Yes.
Regards,
--
Michael van Elst
Internet: mle...@serpens.rhein.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Neal G. Gilbertson
In article <3p1ci9$2...@hopi.dtcc.edu>, b7...@hopi.dtcc.edu (Bill Bohn) writes:
> Neal G. Gilbertson (nggi...@cca.rockwell.com) wrote:
>
> : that do you? You will no longer exist so you can't say those imortal
> : words and you won't be around to enjoy your "better world" or hear
> : anyone saying what a "great contributor" you were and what a great
> : world it turned out to be because of you. Or... maybe not.
>
> Hearing those quotes about 'what a great person I was' is such pride
> driven dribble and clearly shows how vain Christians are.
No, I didn't mean that. You took me out of context (Can this happen?)
I was only saying this in light of the argument
that some who don't believe in God use to explain there reason to exist.
They say they are here to contribute to the whole and there legacy will
be carried on in others and thats good enough for them. But!
What good does this do the individual?
To us, as christians ( and other faiths too), we are here for a reason!
For our fellow man and for ourselves.
As for vain! The person saying this is a New-ager. These people think
they are god themselves! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
> Born Again are
> a better shade since they realize that not everyone has to be 'saved' the
> same day they were.
You lost me here.
> But altogether, it shows a certain hierarchy which
> does not exist in true faith. You if you know inner truth , then you
> have your own scriptures to write.
Write your own? If everyone did that it would be like reading
stuff on the net. Pure Drivel!
> Your own lessons to learn. And no,
> we are not all on the same page spirtually, some have lived more lives
> than others...
New age. Reincarnation. I know where you are comming from.
You are right though. Not everyone is on the same page.
I can say to you "go the way of the christian". You have other ideas.
Some say: "Any who are not christian are doomed". From reading the bible
this would seem to be a fact. But it is not our place to say this
to others. As christians we are suppose to spread the word of how Jesus
Christ (who is God) Died for our sins and thus redeemed us from the wrath
of God. God Who would not accept us as we are because we are corruped.
Most people who are not informed would not understand the reasons
behind this and would be (and might continue to be) confused.
A gentle approch is needed. You would then be moved (supernaturally)
to follow the christian way. This supernaturalness is what convices
us that God does exist and we are thence-forth taken care of.
God will decide what a persons destiny will be.
In other words it's not for us (as christians) to say.
It is up to God.
This is my opinion and there's a possibility I could be right.
NG
Neal G. Gilbertson
So,
Will the new Amigas have 16 or even 32 bit sound?
NG
Michael van Elst
>Negros have been found to be more athletic than other races but they
>score lower in IQ tests than whites, females are believed to be more
>emotional/intuitive while males are more logical, (the reason why the
>great majority of inventions and scientific breakthroughs have been
>achieved by men).
Then you must be an exception to those rules. You are athletic in your
brain, your arguments are derived from fear and logic is missing.
Branko Collin
u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DG Coombes) writes:
>Arrrrgggghhh!!!! Firstly, this isn't meant to be here and people are
>getting very annoyed that this hasn't left. However, even though I don't
>want to proliferate this thread any further, I feel I must correct whoever
>wrote this and so many others in my second point of the day.
>
continuing an alledgedly off-topic post. Alledgedly because the news-
group is called c.s.a.MISC. Then again, I would not call make-money-fast
or cheap-international-calls posts on-topic, so I am not sure.
>RELIGION has killed no one. PEOPLE kill people. It just takes ONE person,
>be it the Pope or Hitler, to convince people that they should be killing
>others, and then off we go cutting up whoever.
weapon manufacturers argue, nevertheless in countries where weapons are
easily available (say, the USA) many more people die through crime
than in countries where weapon sales are highly restricted (for instance,
the Netherlands).
Religion is for some people a vehicle for their criminal acts.
It may not be bad intrinsically, but religion gives people the chance
to give up their conscience. Spreading religion is like selling
weapons. You cannot just say, hey , it's a free world, if they want
to believe, let them.
Robert Owen Raine
Gwynne Reddick <gr...@agog.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Mon, 15 May 95, Robert Owen Raine wrote:
>
>> In article <1995May14.1...@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>,
>> jsp...@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Jean-Guy D. Speton) wrote:
>> >Robert Owen Raine (ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu) wrote:
>
>> >: As for the rest of you I feel sorry that you have Educated yourself right out of
>> >: the desire to find Gods Love for you. Maybe someday you will WISE up, till then I
>> >
>
>
>> I never said he exist. I said that I believe in him. I also never said I
>> was right,
>
>statement?
>
Maybe it has to do with the fact that he said that religion was imposible
and we were stupid to believe in such non-sense. A section that you
seem to have left out. Actually you left every thing I commented on
out and just spit at my answers. I guess we can call you Mr. Open-
minded.
>>
>> I'm sure glad that you Know the answer to every question in the universe.
>> Please explain to me and the rest of the chemist in the world
>> "hybridization", tell all the High energy physicist in the world to stop
>> the search for the top quark you have the data that proves it right in your
>> back pocket. The arrogance of some atheiest to think that all religious
>> people are stupid little sheep.
>
>by any of the other posters in this thread, in which they claim to know the
>answers to any question in the universe?
>
The persons statement to which I was refering is missing. Gosh from the tone
of that comment you don't think I was being a little sarcastic do you.
Op there I go again.
>> I don't see Religion and Science as being Juxtaposed. I call science the
>> search into the mind of God. I applaud and encourage the endevours of the
>> scientific community. And I hate to have to tell you this there are a lot
>> of people just like me.
>
>Thankfully, there are also a great number who aren't.
>
Free county your choice.
>>
>> >I'd be very impressed. Foundationless faith is not a reason.
>> >Unexplainable phenomena is not a reason.
>>
>> Your inability to consider an unproven hypotoesis tells me you have more
>> faith in your belief's then in scientific method.
>
>Again, I fail to see where anyone has admitted to not having considered
>what you rightly call an unproven hypothesis. Some of us choose not to
>blithely conduct our lives on such a baseless hypothesis.
>
We Know from History that several of the events in the bible did occur
Roman records do have several corrolations. Sorry I don't have a bone
fragment for you to look at. If you could give me a way that I can prove
absolutely using the scientific method that God, beyond a shadow of a
doubt dosn't exist, I will run the experiment MYSELF.