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stupid network tricks
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li...@openmailbox.org
Feb 27, 2015, 12:35:07 AM2/27/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
Hi VMSystem Managers,
My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node name
on my system. I'm typing this in while looking at the screen so any obvious
typos are just that and names have been changed to protect the innocent.
$ show net
Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.hostname.org Address(es):
aa.bb.cc.dd
$ tcpip
TCPIP> show host *
LOCAL database
Host address Host name
127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG
The host file looks good to my untrained eye. Why does the domain name get
appended to the fully qualified host name in the SHOW NET output? On the
few known-good systems I looked at this doesn't seem to happen.
How do I "fix" this so
Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.hostname.org Address(es):
aa.bb.cc.dd
becomes:
Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG Address(es):
aa.bb.cc.dd
Thank you.
My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node name
on my system. I'm typing this in while looking at the screen so any obvious
typos are just that and names have been changed to protect the innocent.
$ show net
Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.hostname.org Address(es):
aa.bb.cc.dd
$ tcpip
TCPIP> show host *
LOCAL database
Host address Host name
127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG
The host file looks good to my untrained eye. Why does the domain name get
appended to the fully qualified host name in the SHOW NET output? On the
few known-good systems I looked at this doesn't seem to happen.
How do I "fix" this so
Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.hostname.org Address(es):
aa.bb.cc.dd
becomes:
Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG Address(es):
aa.bb.cc.dd
Thank you.
David Froble
Feb 27, 2015, 2:37:35 AM2/27/15
to
When you set up TCP/IP, what did you specify as the node name. I do
believe that all that you should specify would be MYNODE. I don't set
it up often, so I'm a bit rusty on the commands.
DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS CORE ENVIRONMENT
Configuration Menu
Configuration options:
1 - BIND Resolver
2 - Domain
3 - Routing
4 - Interfaces
5 - Time Zone
A - Configure options 1 - 5
[E] - Exit menu
Enter configuration option: 2
DOMAIN Configuration
Enter Internet domain [T-SOFT]:
This is from my VAX.
li...@openmailbox.org
Feb 27, 2015, 6:50:05 AM2/27/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 02:43:18 -0500
David Froble via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
> I'm going to take a wild ass guess on this.
Those are the best kind ;-)
David Froble via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
> I'm going to take a wild ass guess on this.
> When you set up TCP/IP, what did you specify as the node name. I do
> believe that all that you should specify would be MYNODE. I don't set
> it up often, so I'm a bit rusty on the commands.
It's only in the SHOW NET output that the name appears not what I expected.
The domain should be the fully qualified host name without the node name
prepended, shouldn't it?
>
> DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS CORE ENVIRONMENT
> Configuration Menu
>
> Configuration options:
>
> 1 - BIND Resolver
> 2 - Domain
> 3 - Routing
> 4 - Interfaces
> 5 - Time Zone
>
> A - Configure options 1 - 5
> [E] - Exit menu
>
> Enter configuration option: 2
>
> DOMAIN Configuration
>
> Enter Internet domain [T-SOFT]:
>
entered the domain name rather than the node name. I will try changing it
over the weekend and let you know.
Stephen Hoffman
Feb 27, 2015, 9:20:43 AM2/27/15
to
On 2015-02-27 05:29:51 +0000, li...@openmailbox.org said:
> Hi VMSystem Managers,
OpenVMS version and architecture, and TCP/IP Services version? When
posting questions: always include the version details, and the patch
details when applicable.
I'll here assume you have not manually edited any of the binary-format
TCP/IP Services configuration files. If you have directly edited the
TCP/IP Services hosts file for instance, then all bets are off.
> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> name on my system.
What are your settings for the BIND resolver:
TCPIP> sho name
TCPIP> sho config name
You've obfuscated the IP address space in use, so it's not clear if
you're using NAT here or not. If you're using NAT (one of the three IP
address blocks reserved for that), then most modern servers will
generally need local DNS for purposes of authentication and security,
though VMS isn't particularly secure here, nor particularly
network-integrated, and which means that VMS and any local clients of
the VMS box can usually avoid having local DNS running.
If you are using NAT, then stay out of the 192.168.0.0/24 and
192.168.1.0/24 subnets in general, as that'll mess up any eventual use
of VPNs here. But I digress.
SHOW HOST /LOCAL will show any locally-added host names. Based on what
you've shown (and assuming there is no REMOTE database header missing),
it appears you are not using a local DNS server. That usually means
you're either NAT'd and not running local DNS services here, or you're
not at a NAT'd address.
If you have configured and are running local DNS services (BIND server
or otherwise) here, then this behavior would commonly be caused by the
lack of a dot on the end of the host name in the DNS zone file. The
zone file will apply the zone name to each host name, unless the host
name within the zone is specified as a fully-qualified domain name
(FQDN) as indicated by a trailing dot.
If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
> I'm typing this in while looking at the screen so any obvious typos are
> just that and names have been changed to protect the innocent.
Attempting to obfuscate with a real and registered domain implies some
unfamiliarity with DNS. That hostname.org is a real and registered
domain name, and you're probably not Fabio Yamamoto nor associated with
that individual; with the registrant of that domain. Please obfuscate
with example.com, example.org and/or example.net, the RFC-reserved
domain names for documentation and obfuscation and such. Using the
RFC-reserved domains makes the obfuscation clear to anyone that is
familiar with this area.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
> Hi VMSystem Managers,
OpenVMS version and architecture, and TCP/IP Services version? When
posting questions: always include the version details, and the patch
details when applicable.
I'll here assume you have not manually edited any of the binary-format
TCP/IP Services configuration files. If you have directly edited the
TCP/IP Services hosts file for instance, then all bets are off.
> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> name on my system.
TCPIP> sho name
TCPIP> sho config name
You've obfuscated the IP address space in use, so it's not clear if
you're using NAT here or not. If you're using NAT (one of the three IP
address blocks reserved for that), then most modern servers will
generally need local DNS for purposes of authentication and security,
though VMS isn't particularly secure here, nor particularly
network-integrated, and which means that VMS and any local clients of
the VMS box can usually avoid having local DNS running.
If you are using NAT, then stay out of the 192.168.0.0/24 and
192.168.1.0/24 subnets in general, as that'll mess up any eventual use
of VPNs here. But I digress.
SHOW HOST /LOCAL will show any locally-added host names. Based on what
you've shown (and assuming there is no REMOTE database header missing),
it appears you are not using a local DNS server. That usually means
you're either NAT'd and not running local DNS services here, or you're
not at a NAT'd address.
If you have configured and are running local DNS services (BIND server
or otherwise) here, then this behavior would commonly be caused by the
lack of a dot on the end of the host name in the DNS zone file. The
zone file will apply the zone name to each host name, unless the host
name within the zone is specified as a fully-qualified domain name
(FQDN) as indicated by a trailing dot.
If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
> I'm typing this in while looking at the screen so any obvious typos are
> just that and names have been changed to protect the innocent.
unfamiliarity with DNS. That hostname.org is a real and registered
domain name, and you're probably not Fabio Yamamoto nor associated with
that individual; with the registrant of that domain. Please obfuscate
with example.com, example.org and/or example.net, the RFC-reserved
domain names for documentation and obfuscation and such. Using the
RFC-reserved domains makes the obfuscation clear to anyone that is
familiar with this area.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
li...@openmailbox.org
Mar 2, 2015, 5:30:05 AM3/2/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
An update:
Combing responses to a couple of emails in one:
VMS/VAX 7.3 emulated hobbyist system
I am not worried about the fine details of networking since this system
lives behind my router on my LAN and if and when I let people sign on I use
dynamic DNS and port forward from my router to whatever box. And this
works. I get a DHCP lease and I can ftp in and out of the box and I can
log in on telnet from another box on my LAN. The problem seems to be
cosmetic and academic, but I would like to fix it.
I have not edited any binary files. I will have to post later about what
the BIND resolver says.
more at the bottom:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 11:48:35 +0000
<li...@openmailbox.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 02:43:18 -0500
> David Froble via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
from MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.hostname.org
to
MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.mynode
(with apologies for offending Hoffman's delicate network sensibilities, none
intended)
It would be nice if there was a way to clear all the settings and start
again but I don't see one.
"I was just following the tutorial"
Thanks guys.
Combing responses to a couple of emails in one:
VMS/VAX 7.3 emulated hobbyist system
I am not worried about the fine details of networking since this system
lives behind my router on my LAN and if and when I let people sign on I use
dynamic DNS and port forward from my router to whatever box. And this
works. I get a DHCP lease and I can ftp in and out of the box and I can
log in on telnet from another box on my LAN. The problem seems to be
cosmetic and academic, but I would like to fix it.
I have not edited any binary files. I will have to post later about what
the BIND resolver says.
more at the bottom:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 11:48:35 +0000
<li...@openmailbox.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 02:43:18 -0500
> David Froble via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
> > When you set up TCP/IP, what did you specify as the node name. I do
> > believe that all that you should specify would be MYNODE. I don't set
> > it up often, so I'm a bit rusty on the commands.
>
> > believe that all that you should specify would be MYNODE. I don't set
> > it up often, so I'm a bit rusty on the commands.
>
> The nodename seems ok as in when the system starts it always show MYNODE.
> It's only in the SHOW NET output that the name appears not what I
> expected. The domain should be the fully qualified host name without the
> node name prepended, shouldn't it?
>
> >
> It's only in the SHOW NET output that the name appears not what I
> expected. The domain should be the fully qualified host name without the
> node name prepended, shouldn't it?
>
> >
> > DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS CORE ENVIRONMENT
> > Configuration Menu
> >
> > Configuration options:
> >
> > 1 - BIND Resolver
> > 2 - Domain
> > 3 - Routing
> > 4 - Interfaces
> > 5 - Time Zone
> >
> > A - Configure options 1 - 5
> > [E] - Exit menu
> >
> > Enter configuration option: 2
> >
> > DOMAIN Configuration
> >
> > Enter Internet domain [T-SOFT]:
All this seems to have done was to change the SHOW NET output
> > Configuration Menu
> >
> > Configuration options:
> >
> > 1 - BIND Resolver
> > 2 - Domain
> > 3 - Routing
> > 4 - Interfaces
> > 5 - Time Zone
> >
> > A - Configure options 1 - 5
> > [E] - Exit menu
> >
> > Enter configuration option: 2
> >
> > DOMAIN Configuration
> >
> > Enter Internet domain [T-SOFT]:
from MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.hostname.org
to
MYNODE.HOSTNAME.ORG.mynode
(with apologies for offending Hoffman's delicate network sensibilities, none
intended)
It would be nice if there was a way to clear all the settings and start
again but I don't see one.
"I was just following the tutorial"
Thanks guys.
Paul Sture
Mar 4, 2015, 6:46:44 AM3/4/15
to
On 2015-03-02, <li...@openmailbox.org> <li...@openmailbox.org> wrote:
> An update:
>
> Combing responses to a couple of emails in one:
>
> VMS/VAX 7.3 emulated hobbyist system
>
> I am not worried about the fine details of networking since this system
> lives behind my router on my LAN and if and when I let people sign on I use
> dynamic DNS and port forward from my router to whatever box. And this
> works. I get a DHCP lease and I can ftp in and out of the box and I can
> log in on telnet from another box on my LAN. The problem seems to be
> cosmetic and academic, but I would like to fix it.
>
> I have not edited any binary files. I will have to post later about what
> the BIND resolver says.
<snip>
> An update:
>
> Combing responses to a couple of emails in one:
>
> VMS/VAX 7.3 emulated hobbyist system
>
> I am not worried about the fine details of networking since this system
> lives behind my router on my LAN and if and when I let people sign on I use
> dynamic DNS and port forward from my router to whatever box. And this
> works. I get a DHCP lease and I can ftp in and out of the box and I can
> log in on telnet from another box on my LAN. The problem seems to be
> cosmetic and academic, but I would like to fix it.
>
> I have not edited any binary files. I will have to post later about what
> the BIND resolver says.
>
> It would be nice if there was a way to clear all the settings and start
> again but I don't see one.
1. shutdown TCP/IP Services via the tcpip$config menu
2. Rename the config files out of the way. The dates
below reflect a somewhat older version of VMS and TCP/IP
so the filenames may differ slightly.
$ set def sys$system
$ $ set def sys$system
$ dir/da tcpip*.dat
Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]
TCPIP$CONFIGURATION.DAT;1
18-NOV-2000 10:03:41.27
TCPIP$HOST.DAT;1 18-NOV-2000 10:03:39.06
TCPIP$NETWORK.DAT;1
18-NOV-2000 10:03:39.41
TCPIP$PROXY.DAT;1 18-NOV-2000 10:03:39.93
TCPIP$ROUTE.DAT;1 18-NOV-2000 10:03:39.64
TCPIP$SERVICE.DAT;1
18-NOV-2000 10:03:38.76
Total of 6 files.
$ rename tcpip*.dat *.old_dat ! rename files out of the way
$ @sys$manager:tcpip$config ! start config afresh
> "I was just following the tutorial"
>
> Thanks guys.
Don't ever use the last two versions of GCC in serious stuff :)
-- fortune cookie seen on GCC Bugzilla – Bug List
li...@openmailbox.org
Mar 6, 2015, 4:20:06 AM3/6/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
Thank you for the help.
Sorry, I'm behind on mail. I'll look into this and get back with an answer
to Hoffman and whomever else next week hopefully.
Please DO NOT COPY ME on mailing list replies. I read the mailing list.
RSA 4096 fingerprint 7940 3F02 16D3 AFEE F2F8 ACAA 557C 4B36 98E4 4D49
Sorry, I'm behind on mail. I'll look into this and get back with an answer
to Hoffman and whomever else next week hopefully.
RSA 4096 fingerprint 7940 3F02 16D3 AFEE F2F8 ACAA 557C 4B36 98E4 4D49
li...@openmailbox.org
Mar 9, 2015, 9:30:06 AM3/9/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
Sorry for the delay. I couldn't get to this machine until now.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 09:19:26 -0500
Stephen Hoffman via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
> On 2015-02-27 05:29:51 +0000, li...@openmailbox.org said:
>
> > Hi VMSystem Managers,
>
> OpenVMS version and architecture, and TCP/IP Services version? When
> posting questions: always include the version details, and the patch
> details when applicable.
>
> I'll here assume you have not manually edited any of the binary-format
> TCP/IP Services configuration files. If you have directly edited the
> TCP/IP Services hosts file for instance, then all bets are off.
I didn't try any funny stuff.
> > My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> > name on my system.
$ SHOW NET
Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
>
> What are your settings for the BIND resolver:
>
> TCPIP> sho name
TCPIP> sho name
BIND Resolver Parameters
Local domain: example.com
System
State: Started, disabled
Transport: UDP
Domain:
Retry: Not defined
Timeout: Not defined
Servers: No values defined
Path: No values defined
Process
State: Disabled
Transport:
Domain:
Retry:
Servers:
Path:
> TCPIP> sho config name
%TCPIP-E-CONFIGERROR, error processing configuration request
-TCPIP-E-NAMERROR, error processing name service request
-RMS-E-RNF, record not found
> SHOW HOST /LOCAL will show any locally-added host names.
$ SHOW HOST /LOCAL
%DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling
> If you have configured and are running local DNS services (BIND server
> or otherwise) here, then this behavior would commonly be caused by the
> lack of a dot on the end of the host name in the DNS zone file. The
> zone file will apply the zone name to each host name, unless the host
> name within the zone is specified as a fully-qualified domain name
> (FQDN) as indicated by a trailing dot.
>
> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
> resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
There should be no BIND services.
Thanks.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 09:19:26 -0500
Stephen Hoffman via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
> On 2015-02-27 05:29:51 +0000, li...@openmailbox.org said:
>
> > Hi VMSystem Managers,
>
> OpenVMS version and architecture, and TCP/IP Services version? When
> posting questions: always include the version details, and the patch
> details when applicable.
>
> I'll here assume you have not manually edited any of the binary-format
> TCP/IP Services configuration files. If you have directly edited the
> TCP/IP Services hosts file for instance, then all bets are off.
> > My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> > name on my system.
Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
>
> What are your settings for the BIND resolver:
>
> TCPIP> sho name
BIND Resolver Parameters
Local domain: example.com
System
State: Started, disabled
Transport: UDP
Domain:
Retry: Not defined
Timeout: Not defined
Servers: No values defined
Path: No values defined
Process
State: Disabled
Transport:
Domain:
Retry:
Servers:
Path:
> TCPIP> sho config name
%TCPIP-E-CONFIGERROR, error processing configuration request
-TCPIP-E-NAMERROR, error processing name service request
-RMS-E-RNF, record not found
> SHOW HOST /LOCAL will show any locally-added host names.
%DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling
> If you have configured and are running local DNS services (BIND server
> or otherwise) here, then this behavior would commonly be caused by the
> lack of a dot on the end of the host name in the DNS zone file. The
> zone file will apply the zone name to each host name, unless the host
> name within the zone is specified as a fully-qualified domain name
> (FQDN) as indicated by a trailing dot.
>
> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
> resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
Thanks.
Stephen Hoffman
Mar 9, 2015, 9:56:18 AM3/9/15
to
On 2015-03-09 13:27:13 +0000, <li...@openmailbox.org> said:
> Sorry for the delay. I couldn't get to this machine until now.
As an alternative to Info-VAX, consider visiting
> Sorry for the delay. I couldn't get to this machine until now.
http://www.eternal-september.org and get a free account, and use that
with a news reader for your preferred platform. That will allow you to
access comp.os.vms directly.
>
>>> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
>>> name on my system.
>
> $ SHOW NET
>
> Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
> Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com
> Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
Is the aa.bb.cc.dd address private or public? (Technically,
aa.bb.cc.dd is a real, public, valid IPv4 IP address, but I'm guessing
you're not comfiguring OpenVMS at what's more commonly known as
170.187.204.221.)
>> What are your settings for the BIND resolver:
>>
>> TCPIP> sho name
>
> TCPIP> sho name
>
> BIND Resolver Parameters
>
> Local domain: example.com
>
> System
>
> State: Started, disabled
> Transport: UDP
> Domain:
> Retry: Not defined
> Timeout: Not defined
> Servers: No values defined
> Path: No values defined
>
> Process
>
> State: Disabled
>
> Transport:
> Domain:
> Retry:
> Servers:
> Path:
configuration was skipped, or maybe — and I don't recommend using DHCP
— DHCP went sideways somewhere. You shuld see the domain and the
servers listed. Newer operating systems can tend to adapt better to
the network, or to configuration details. With VMS, you get to tell it
more of the details, and DHCP isn't something that various folks have
had the best outcome with. That means performing at least the entire
core network configuration sequence in TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not
already been completed. (I'd expect this is an issue, if not the issue
— I'd expect to see a domain listed in the above.)
If you have not already done so, minimally complete option 1 and the
core configuration, and it's generally better to use the A option and
get most of the stuff you'll immediately need sort-of working:
$ @sys$manager:tcpip$config
Checking TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS configuration database files.
...
HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Configuration Menu
Configuration options:
1 - Core environment
2 - Client components
3 - Server components
4 - Optional components
5 - Shutdown HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS
6 - Startup HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS
7 - Run tests
A - Configure options 1 - 4
[E] - Exit configuration procedure
Enter configuration option:
>> TCPIP> sho config name
>
> %TCPIP-E-CONFIGERROR, error processing configuration request
> -TCPIP-E-NAMERROR, error processing name service request
> -RMS-E-RNF, record not found
Re-invoke the core services configuration sequence within the
TCPIP$CONFIG tool.
>
>> SHOW HOST /LOCAL will show any locally-added host names.
>
> $ SHOW HOST /LOCAL
>
> %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling
TCPIP> SHOW HOST /LOCAL
>> SHOW HOST /LOCAL will show any locally-added host names.
>
> $ SHOW HOST /LOCAL
>
> %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling
>> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
>> resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
>
> There should be no BIND services.
willing to run insecurely than other servers, and unfortunately less
likely to notice the usual sorts of attacks. Your call.
It's also possible that the emulator is getting in the way. The
virtual (emulated) networking implementation has been a longstanding
source of weird problems with OpenVMS, and the documentation associated
with various of the emulators has had large gaps, or wasn't entirely
current for the version of the emulator in use.
li...@openmailbox.org
Mar 9, 2015, 12:00:06 PM3/9/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
Hi,
On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:55:35 -0400
SIMH is running.
>
> >
> >>> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> >>> name on my system.
> >
> > $ SHOW NET
> >
> > Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
> > Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com
> > Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
>
> Again, that's usually a not-FQDN entry somewhere in the configuration.
I'll try reentering it with a trailing .
Ok, shutdown/restarted TCP/IP...that did nothing. No change in SHOW NET
output.
> Is the aa.bb.cc.dd address private or public? (Technically,
> aa.bb.cc.dd is a real, public, valid IPv4 IP address, but I'm guessing
> you're not comfiguring OpenVMS at what's more commonly known as
> 170.187.204.221.)
The address is a private address on my lan.
>
>
> >> What are your settings for the BIND resolver:
> >>
> >> TCPIP> sho name
> >
> > TCPIP> sho name
> >
> > BIND Resolver Parameters
> >
> > Local domain: example.com
> >
> > System
> >
> > State: Started, disabled
> > Transport: UDP
> > Domain:
> > Retry: Not defined
> > Timeout: Not defined
> > Servers: No values defined
> > Path: No values defined
> >
> > Process
> >
> > State: Disabled
> >
> > Transport:
> > Domain:
> > Retry:
> > Servers:
> > Path:
>
> That's not an expected configuration. Looks like the baseline
> configuration was skipped, or maybe — and I don't recommend using DHCP
> — DHCP went sideways somewhere.
I'm using DHCP because that's what I do with all the boxes on my LAN. It's
easier to keep track of things by their MAC and assign them an orderly
address on my lan. Going to direct config instead doesn't fix the problem.
> You shuld see the domain and the servers listed. Newer operating systems
> can tend to adapt better to the network, or to configuration details.
> With VMS, you get to tell it more of the details, and DHCP isn't
> something that various folks have had the best outcome with. That means
> performing at least the entire core network configuration sequence in
> TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not already been completed. (I'd expect
> this is an issue, if not the issue — I'd expect to see a domain listed in
> the above.)
I did go through TCPIP$CONFIG several times. I don't know if I did it
correctly since I was following a tutorial I found on the net.
> If you have not already done so, minimally complete option 1 and the
> core configuration, and it's generally better to use the A option and
> get most of the stuff you'll immediately need sort-of working:
I have several times already so another time won't hurt. I just did and
nothing changed in SHOW NET output.
LOCAL database
Host address Hostname
127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM
>
> >> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
> >> resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
> >
> > There should be no BIND services.
>
> Arguably, there should be DNS servers, but then OpenVMS is much more
> willing to run insecurely than other servers, and unfortunately less
> likely to notice the usual sorts of attacks. Your call.
This system is behind a router/firewall. Right now it is not on the air. I
can port forward if I want to let people telnet in, etc.
I am not sure how things should look on VMS but as far as the other OS I
have they use /etc/resolv.conf which uses my router as a nameserver.
Now that I think of it this seems suboptimal. I seem to remember separate
DNS entries but all it has now is the entry for my router. I will check it
on another UNIX box later. Should be slow but should not have anything to
do with this (famous last words).
Where do you set up DNS server addresses in OpenVMS VAX? I can't resolve
address outside my lan, so at this this much is not setup correctly. I just
tried adding the router address as the BIND server address and I can now
resolve external names. But the following spits out errors and warnings
that were not there previously:
TCPIP> show host *
Host address Hostname
127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM
%TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
%TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found
-TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
Is this normal when all you have is name resolution but are not serving
services or did I just break something else by trying this?
> It's also possible that the emulator is getting in the way. The
> virtual (emulated) networking implementation has been a longstanding
> source of weird problems with OpenVMS, and the documentation associated
> with various of the emulators has had large gaps, or wasn't entirely
> current for the version of the emulator in use.
I really don't know. I was using a bridged network to run SIMH in user mode
and it works fine. I wondered if that was causing wierd name resolution
(duplication) because of the bridge so I brought it up again running as
root and no network bridging and the SHOW NET output is unchanged. So that
wasn't it.
I believe I tried turning DHCP off before and it didn't change the SHOW NET
display either. Just tried it now and doesn't help.
Again, the "problem" is not a functional issue, it's just that SHOW NET
doesn't look reasonable. Otherwise the actual network functionality, given
the box is not on the air and not in a DMZ, is fine i.e. telnet and ftp in
and out work.
Thank you.
On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:55:35 -0400
> On 2015-03-09 13:27:13 +0000, <li...@openmailbox.org> said:
>
> > Sorry for the delay. I couldn't get to this machine until now.
>
> As an alternative to Info-VAX, consider visiting
> http://www.eternal-september.org and get a free account, and use that
> with a news reader for your preferred platform. That will allow you to
> access comp.os.vms directly.
I prefer mailing lists and anyway I meant I couldn't get to the box where
>
> > Sorry for the delay. I couldn't get to this machine until now.
>
> As an alternative to Info-VAX, consider visiting
> http://www.eternal-september.org and get a free account, and use that
> with a news reader for your preferred platform. That will allow you to
> access comp.os.vms directly.
SIMH is running.
>
> >
> >>> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> >>> name on my system.
> >
> > $ SHOW NET
> >
> > Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
> > Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com
> > Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
>
> Again, that's usually a not-FQDN entry somewhere in the configuration.
Ok, shutdown/restarted TCP/IP...that did nothing. No change in SHOW NET
output.
> Is the aa.bb.cc.dd address private or public? (Technically,
> aa.bb.cc.dd is a real, public, valid IPv4 IP address, but I'm guessing
> you're not comfiguring OpenVMS at what's more commonly known as
> 170.187.204.221.)
>
>
> >> What are your settings for the BIND resolver:
> >>
> >> TCPIP> sho name
> >
> > TCPIP> sho name
> >
> > BIND Resolver Parameters
> >
> > Local domain: example.com
> >
> > System
> >
> > State: Started, disabled
> > Transport: UDP
> > Domain:
> > Retry: Not defined
> > Timeout: Not defined
> > Servers: No values defined
> > Path: No values defined
> >
> > Process
> >
> > State: Disabled
> >
> > Transport:
> > Domain:
> > Retry:
> > Servers:
> > Path:
>
> That's not an expected configuration. Looks like the baseline
> configuration was skipped, or maybe — and I don't recommend using DHCP
> — DHCP went sideways somewhere.
easier to keep track of things by their MAC and assign them an orderly
address on my lan. Going to direct config instead doesn't fix the problem.
> You shuld see the domain and the servers listed. Newer operating systems
> can tend to adapt better to the network, or to configuration details.
> With VMS, you get to tell it more of the details, and DHCP isn't
> something that various folks have had the best outcome with. That means
> performing at least the entire core network configuration sequence in
> TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not already been completed. (I'd expect
> this is an issue, if not the issue — I'd expect to see a domain listed in
> the above.)
correctly since I was following a tutorial I found on the net.
> If you have not already done so, minimally complete option 1 and the
> core configuration, and it's generally better to use the A option and
> get most of the stuff you'll immediately need sort-of working:
nothing changed in SHOW NET output.
Host address Hostname
127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM
>
> >> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
> >> resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
> >
> > There should be no BIND services.
>
> Arguably, there should be DNS servers, but then OpenVMS is much more
> willing to run insecurely than other servers, and unfortunately less
> likely to notice the usual sorts of attacks. Your call.
can port forward if I want to let people telnet in, etc.
I am not sure how things should look on VMS but as far as the other OS I
have they use /etc/resolv.conf which uses my router as a nameserver.
Now that I think of it this seems suboptimal. I seem to remember separate
DNS entries but all it has now is the entry for my router. I will check it
on another UNIX box later. Should be slow but should not have anything to
do with this (famous last words).
Where do you set up DNS server addresses in OpenVMS VAX? I can't resolve
address outside my lan, so at this this much is not setup correctly. I just
tried adding the router address as the BIND server address and I can now
resolve external names. But the following spits out errors and warnings
that were not there previously:
TCPIP> show host *
Host address Hostname
127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM
%TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
%TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found
-TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
Is this normal when all you have is name resolution but are not serving
services or did I just break something else by trying this?
> It's also possible that the emulator is getting in the way. The
> virtual (emulated) networking implementation has been a longstanding
> source of weird problems with OpenVMS, and the documentation associated
> with various of the emulators has had large gaps, or wasn't entirely
> current for the version of the emulator in use.
and it works fine. I wondered if that was causing wierd name resolution
(duplication) because of the bridge so I brought it up again running as
root and no network bridging and the SHOW NET output is unchanged. So that
wasn't it.
I believe I tried turning DHCP off before and it didn't change the SHOW NET
display either. Just tried it now and doesn't help.
Again, the "problem" is not a functional issue, it's just that SHOW NET
doesn't look reasonable. Otherwise the actual network functionality, given
the box is not on the air and not in a DMZ, is fine i.e. telnet and ftp in
and out work.
Thank you.
BillPedersen
Mar 9, 2015, 12:23:39 PM3/9/15
to
> > -- DHCP went sideways somewhere.
>
> I'm using DHCP because that's what I do with all the boxes on my LAN. It's
> easier to keep track of things by their MAC and assign them an orderly
> address on my lan. Going to direct config instead doesn't fix the problem.
>
> > You shuld see the domain and the servers listed. Newer operating systems
> > can tend to adapt better to the network, or to configuration details.
> > With VMS, you get to tell it more of the details, and DHCP isn't
> > something that various folks have had the best outcome with. That means
> > performing at least the entire core network configuration sequence in
> > TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not already been completed. (I'd expect
> > this is an issue, if not the issue -- I'd expect to see a domain listed in
> I'm using DHCP because that's what I do with all the boxes on my LAN. It's
> easier to keep track of things by their MAC and assign them an orderly
> address on my lan. Going to direct config instead doesn't fix the problem.
>
> > You shuld see the domain and the servers listed. Newer operating systems
> > can tend to adapt better to the network, or to configuration details.
> > With VMS, you get to tell it more of the details, and DHCP isn't
> > something that various folks have had the best outcome with. That means
> > performing at least the entire core network configuration sequence in
> > TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not already been completed. (I'd expect
How did you specify the host hame when you set up TCPIP? Did you do it as a fully qualified name or as just the host name for the interface did you? This should just be the host name without the domain name.
Bill.
Stephen Hoffman
Mar 9, 2015, 12:36:23 PM3/9/15
to
On 2015-03-09 15:58:47 +0000, <li...@openmailbox.org> said:
>
>>
>>>
>>>>> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
>>>>> name on my system.
>>>
>>> $ SHOW NET
>>>
>>> Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
>>> Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com
>>> Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
>>
>> Again, that's usually a not-FQDN entry somewhere in the configuration.
>
> I'll try reentering it with a trailing .
Re-entering WHAT? Where? With WHAT commands?
>
>>
>>>
>>>>> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
>>>>> name on my system.
>>>
>>> $ SHOW NET
>>>
>>> Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
>>> Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com
>>> Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
>>
>> Again, that's usually a not-FQDN entry somewhere in the configuration.
>
> I'll try reentering it with a trailing .
> Ok, shutdown/restarted TCP/IP...that did nothing. No change in SHOW NET
> output.
to fossil-grade software on fossil-grade hardware, and probably also
without various patches. Patch access was withdrawn some years ago,
which means hobbyists get to see all sorts of long-fixed problems,
particularly when working with configurations that are a dozen years
old, and variously older. Since this is not a fatal error, the
easiest approach is to ignore this, and move on.)
>> That's not an expected configuration. Looks like the baseline
>> configuration was skipped, or maybe — and I don't recommend using DHCP
>> — DHCP went sideways somewhere.
>
> I'm using DHCP because that's what I do with all the boxes on my LAN.
> It's easier to keep track of things by their MAC and assign them an
> orderly address on my lan. Going to direct config instead doesn't fix
> the problem.
NOT use DHCP with VMS.
I am well aware of the advantages of DHCP.
I would NOT use DHCP on VMS.
Feel free to continue with your current approach, of course. You're
here to learn what does not work, and so far that includes the
tutorial, the SHOW NETWORK command, the local IP configuration
displays, and probably DHCP.
>> You shuld see the domain and the servers listed. Newer operating
>> systems can tend to adapt better to the network, or to configuration
>> details. With VMS, you get to tell it more of the details, and DHCP
>> isn't something that various folks have had the best outcome with.
>> That means performing at least the entire core network configuration
>> sequence in TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not already been completed.
>> (I'd expect this is an issue, if not the issue — I'd expect to see a
>> domain listed in the above.)
>
> I did go through TCPIP$CONFIG several times. I don't know if I did it
> correctly since I was following a tutorial I found on the net.
>> If you have not already done so, minimally complete option 1 and the
>> core configuration, and it's generally better to use the A option and
>> get most of the stuff you'll immediately need sort-of working:
>
> I have several times already so another time won't hurt. I just did and
> nothing changed in SHOW NET output.
SHOW NETWORK is broken? Ah, well. Probably broken command. See if
SET NETWORK /REGISTER can dig you out of this. But then again, OpenVMS
VAX V7.3 is a fossil, and yours — like many folks running V7.3 now —
probably under-patched. I've hit something similar a long time ago
<http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/489>, and V7.3 is well older than
that problem...
>
>
>>>> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the BIND
>>>> resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the error.
>>>
>>> There should be no BIND services.
>>
>> Arguably, there should be DNS servers, but then OpenVMS is much more
>> willing to run insecurely than other servers, and unfortunately less
>> likely to notice the usual sorts of attacks. Your call.
>
> This system is behind a router/firewall. Right now it is not on the
> air. I can port forward if I want to let people telnet in, etc.
>
> I am not sure how things should look on VMS but as far as the other OS
> I have they use /etc/resolv.conf which uses my router as a nameserver.
> Now that I think of it this seems suboptimal.
even running one, here — and /etc/hosts was a mess back in the early
1980s, hence the use of DNS servers. For your case — you like the
simplicity of DHCP, so you'll like what DNS brings, too — I'd again
recommend gettings local DNS services configured and going.
> TCPIP> show host *
>
> Host address Hostname
> 127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
> aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM
> %TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
> %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found
> -TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
>
> Is this normal when all you have is name resolution but are not serving
> services or did I just break something else by trying this?
I keep pointing you back at the configuration tool. Or you can't reach
the servers — but the last resolver configuration you posted had
indicated no resolvers were configured, which means that was skipped,
or that there was a configuration corruption or odd network problem
somewhere in the local configuration.
This configuration is probably hosed — what was in that tutorial, I
don't know — and I'd likely nuke and pave this thing and start over.
>
>> It's also possible that the emulator is getting in the way. The
>> virtual (emulated) networking implementation has been a longstanding
>> source of weird problems with OpenVMS, and the documentation associated
>> with various of the emulators has had large gaps, or wasn't entirely
>> current for the version of the emulator in use.
>
> I really don't know.
network documentation stinks, and that the virtual networking has been
a troublespot for folks.
The developers tend to spend a whole lot of time on the emulator and
the emulation and the testing, and the virtual networking and the UI
and the host OS integration tend to get short shrift. Some are better
than others here. The simh emulation can and does work, preferably
with the latest bits from github and one of the expected configurations.
> I was using a bridged network to run SIMH in user mode and it works
> fine. I wondered if that was causing wierd name resolution
> (duplication) because of the bridge so I brought it up again running as
> root and no network bridging and the SHOW NET output is unchanged. So
> that wasn't it.
mailing list folks for the latest way to get simh configured and
working with whatever host system you're using here.
Unfortunately, any simh docs that point to old simh resources and
locations and to a canonical simh source that predates the
<https://github.com/simh/simh> site is probably stale — Phil Wherry's
site is very old, for instance. Mine's a few years out of date, and
has not been re-run to reflect the lastest simh, either.
> I believe I tried turning DHCP off before and it didn't change the SHOW
> NET display either. Just tried it now and doesn't help.
to troubleshoot errors.) Try turning DHCP off within OpenVMS and
assigning a static address to the OpenVMS box, with a static DNS server
address (8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 will work, for non-local stuff), and the
address of your gateway. Sure, add an entry in the DHCP server for
the VMS box, but don't configure OpenVMS to ask for a DHCP address.
Various servers don't like DHCP addresses, and OpenVMS is among these.
> Again, the "problem" is not a functional issue, it's just that SHOW NET
> doesn't look reasonable. Otherwise the actual network functionality, given
> the box is not on the air and not in a DMZ, is fine i.e. telnet and ftp in
> and out work.
li...@openmailbox.org
Mar 9, 2015, 12:45:04 PM3/9/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
Hi,
On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
BillPedersen via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
> Do you have the log of the last run of the TCPIP$CONFIG? It would be
> interesting to see what happened there.
I went through TCPIP$CONFIG several times just now and I don't know which
one(s) would be worth looking at.
If you can tell me the name of the file and where to find it I will try to
paste it here after sanitizing.
> How did you specify the host hame when you set up TCPIP? Did you do it
> as a fully qualified name or as just the host name for the interface did
> you? This should just be the host name without the domain name.
For the domain name I used example.com at first and then changed it after
reading the replies to example.com. (with a trailing .)
For the node name I specified only mynode.
I think it was Paul Sture's suggestion to clear out the tcp/ip config and
start over again. I can do that but if it is something I'm doing wrong I
will probably do it again since I've been through the config many times
already and see nothing obvious to my untrained VMS eye.
How/where should DNS server names be specified? It appears on UNIX the DHCP
client code sets up resolv.conf from info the DHCP server sends. That
didn't seem to happen on OpenVMS because I could not resolve any external
names until I pointed BIND at my router (which is anyway not a BIND server
but does resolve names)
Thanks.
On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
BillPedersen via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
> Do you have the log of the last run of the TCPIP$CONFIG? It would be
> interesting to see what happened there.
one(s) would be worth looking at.
If you can tell me the name of the file and where to find it I will try to
paste it here after sanitizing.
> How did you specify the host hame when you set up TCPIP? Did you do it
> as a fully qualified name or as just the host name for the interface did
> you? This should just be the host name without the domain name.
reading the replies to example.com. (with a trailing .)
For the node name I specified only mynode.
I think it was Paul Sture's suggestion to clear out the tcp/ip config and
start over again. I can do that but if it is something I'm doing wrong I
will probably do it again since I've been through the config many times
already and see nothing obvious to my untrained VMS eye.
How/where should DNS server names be specified? It appears on UNIX the DHCP
client code sets up resolv.conf from info the DHCP server sends. That
didn't seem to happen on OpenVMS because I could not resolve any external
names until I pointed BIND at my router (which is anyway not a BIND server
but does resolve names)
Thanks.
Stephen Hoffman
Mar 9, 2015, 12:58:54 PM3/9/15
to
On 2015-03-09 16:40:49 +0000, <li...@openmailbox.org> said:
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
> BillPedersen via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
>> Do you have the log of the last run of the TCPIP$CONFIG? It would be
>> interesting to see what happened there.
>
> I went through TCPIP$CONFIG several times just now and I don't know
> which one(s) would be worth looking at.
Use the core settings (1) or All settings (A) in the TCP/IP Services
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
> BillPedersen via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com> wrote:
>> Do you have the log of the last run of the TCPIP$CONFIG? It would be
>> interesting to see what happened there.
>
> I went through TCPIP$CONFIG several times just now and I don't know
> which one(s) would be worth looking at.
TCPIP$CONFIG tool, and enter all of the details requested, and avoid
trying the DHCP path.
The documentation on the installation and configuration is detailed,
and available via the TCP/IP Services shelf at the
<http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc> site.
> If you can tell me the name of the file and where to find it I will try
> to paste it here after sanitizing.
using your terminal emulator.
> How/where should DNS server names be specified? It appears on UNIX the
> DHCP client code sets up resolv.conf from info the DHCP server sends.
> That didn't seem to happen on OpenVMS because I could not resolve any
> external names until I pointed BIND at my router (which is anyway not a
> BIND server but does resolve names)
using the core (1) or All (A) setting in the configuration tool, as
those prompt for these details.
VMS does not use /etc/resolv.conf, and I'd tend to avoid using the
local version of /etc/hosts in preference to using a DNS server. But
the local equivalent of /etc/hosts is the TCPIP> SET HOST stuff, and
that does work. But you do need to configure the resolver through the
menus (easier to explain) or through the command line.
Again, OpenVMS is not very good at being a DHCP client. It would not
surprise me that trying to use VMS as a DHCP client is at the core of
this mess.
BillPedersen
Mar 9, 2015, 1:10:05 PM3/9/15
to
I have never used a trailing period on a domain name in the configuration process. Not sure how that might confuse TCPIP of this vintage. Nor would I enter the host name when configuring the interface with a trailing period.
I would go into TCPIP$CONFIG, either with logging enable in the terminal emulator or with the terminal emulator configured with as sufficiently large buffer to be able to then capture the run and save it.
Then I would go and make sure the DOMAIN and INTERFACE configuration are clean. Then restart TCPIP from the configuration utility.
Then post the log of the operations.
I have no guarantee here that this will solve your problem but the data may give us remote folks a bit more information to work with.
Bill.
BillPedersen
Mar 9, 2015, 1:13:25 PM3/9/15
to
Bill.
li...@openmailbox.org
Mar 9, 2015, 1:20:05 PM3/9/15
to info...@rbnsn.com
On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 12:35:37 -0400
> Where?
in TCPIP$CONFIG, in option 1 where you specify the domain
>
> > Ok, shutdown/restarted TCP/IP...that did nothing. No change in SHOW NET
> > output.
>
> OK. So SHOW NETWORK doesn't work. Are there other problems?
No, it doesn't seem there are.
> (Welcome to fossil-grade software on fossil-grade hardware, and probably
> also without various patches. Patch access was withdrawn some years ago,
> which means hobbyists get to see all sorts of long-fixed problems,
> particularly when working with configurations that are a dozen years
> old, and variously older. Since this is not a fatal error, the
> easiest approach is to ignore this, and move on.)
I know but it looks stupid and other VMS systems have a nice looking node
name so why can't I ;-)
>
> >> That's not an expected configuration. Looks like the baseline
> >> configuration was skipped, or maybe — and I don't recommend using
> >> DHCP — DHCP went sideways somewhere.
> >
> > I'm using DHCP because that's what I do with all the boxes on my LAN.
> > It's easier to keep track of things by their MAC and assign them an
> > orderly address on my lan. Going to direct config instead doesn't fix
> > the problem.
>
> I'd reconfigure with static IP and a correct configuration, and would
> NOT use DHCP with VMS.
Ok, but I did that more than once and it doesn't help with this issue.
> I am well aware of the advantages of DHCP.
>
> I would NOT use DHCP on VMS.
Noted.
>
> Feel free to continue with your current approach, of course. You're
> here to learn what does not work, and so far that includes the
> tutorial, the SHOW NETWORK command, the local IP configuration
> displays, and probably DHCP.
Did somebody get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
>
> >> You shuld see the domain and the servers listed. Newer operating
> >> systems can tend to adapt better to the network, or to configuration
> >> details. With VMS, you get to tell it more of the details, and DHCP
> >> isn't something that various folks have had the best outcome with.
> >> That means performing at least the entire core network configuration
> >> sequence in TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not already been completed.
> >> (I'd expect this is an issue, if not the issue — I'd expect to see a
> >> domain listed in the above.)
> >
> > I did go through TCPIP$CONFIG several times. I don't know if I did it
> > correctly since I was following a tutorial I found on the net.
>
> Did you go through this with a static configuration?
Yes.
>
> >> If you have not already done so, minimally complete option 1 and the
> >> core configuration, and it's generally better to use the A option and
> >> get most of the stuff you'll immediately need sort-of working:
> >
> > I have several times already so another time won't hurt. I just did and
> > nothing changed in SHOW NET output.
>
> So you've completed option 1 with a static (non-DHCP) configuration and
> SHOW NETWORK is broken?
Yes.
> Ah, well. Probably broken command. See if SET NETWORK /REGISTER can
> dig you out of this. But then again, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 is a fossil, and
> yours — like many folks running V7.3 now — probably under-patched. I've
> hit something similar a long time ago
> <http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/489>, and V7.3 is well older than that
> problem...
Thanks will try/take a look.
> >>>> TCPIP> sho config name
> >>>
> >>> %TCPIP-E-CONFIGERROR, error processing configuration request
> >>> -TCPIP-E-NAMERROR, error processing name service request
> >>> -RMS-E-RNF, record not found
> >>
> >> The baseline configuration with TCP/IP Services should have created a
> >> resolver.
I'm sure this is documented somewhere and when I find it I can see if the
tutorial screenshots were wrong or whatever.
> >>>> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the
> >>>> BIND resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the
> >>>> error.
> >>>
> >>> There should be no BIND services.
> >>
> >> Arguably, there should be DNS servers, but then OpenVMS is much more
> >> willing to run insecurely than other servers, and unfortunately less
> >> likely to notice the usual sorts of attacks. Your call.
> >
> > This system is behind a router/firewall. Right now it is not on the
> > air. I can port forward if I want to let people telnet in, etc.
> >
> > I am not sure how things should look on VMS but as far as the other OS
> > I have they use /etc/resolv.conf which uses my router as a nameserver.
> > Now that I think of it this seems suboptimal.
>
> The resolver configuration is host-specific — I can't tell if you're
> even running one, here — and /etc/hosts was a mess back in the early
> 1980s, hence the use of DNS servers. For your case — you like the
> simplicity of DHCP, so you'll like what DNS brings, too — I'd again
> recommend gettings local DNS services configured and going.
Ok, how do I do that?
>
> > TCPIP> show host *
> >
> > Host address Hostname
> > 127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
> > aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM
> > %TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
> > %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found
> > -TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
> >
> > Is this normal when all you have is name resolution but are not serving
> > services or did I just break something else by trying this?
>
> You have no resolvers. You've had no resolvers. Which is part of why
> I keep pointing you back at the configuration tool. Or you can't reach
> the servers — but the last resolver configuration you posted had
> indicated no resolvers were configured, which means that was skipped,
> or that there was a configuration corruption or odd network problem
> somewhere in the local configuration.
I don't see any place to enter this or if I did see it I didn't recognize
it possibly from the terminology.
> This configuration is probably hosed — what was in that tutorial, I
> don't know — and I'd likely nuke and pave this thing and start over.
All because of a bad SHOW NET display? And I thought I was a perfectionist.
>
> >
> >> It's also possible that the emulator is getting in the way. The
> >> virtual (emulated) networking implementation has been a longstanding
> >> source of weird problems with OpenVMS, and the documentation
> >> associated with various of the emulators has had large gaps, or wasn't
> >> entirely current for the version of the emulator in use.
> >
> > I really don't know.
>
> That wasn't a question. It's been my experience that various emulator
> network documentation stinks, and that the virtual networking has been
> a troublespot for folks.
I understood that but OpenVMS is more of an unknown to me than emulator
networking so I'm not ready to point the finger outside my very likely
incorrect setup of OpenVMS yet.
> > I was using a bridged network to run SIMH in user mode and it works
> > fine. I wondered if that was causing wierd name resolution
> > (duplication) because of the bridge so I brought it up again running as
> > root and no network bridging and the SHOW NET output is unchanged. So
> > that wasn't it.
>
> OK. I'd still check with the simh documentation and then with the simh
> mailing list folks for the latest way to get simh configured and
> working with whatever host system you're using here.
It works as far as I can tell. I can telnet from OpenVMS to the world
(after point BIND at my router) and ftp to the world, and I can ftp and
telnet into the box from my network. Haven't tried port forwarding from my
router but there is no reason it shouldn't work if it works locally. I
don't think this issue has to do with SIMH or host networking or anything
like that.
> Unfortunately, any simh docs that point to old simh resources and
> locations and to a canonical simh source that predates the
> <https://github.com/simh/simh> site is probably stale — Phil Wherry's
> site is very old, for instance. Mine's a few years out of date, and
> has not been re-run to reflect the lastest simh, either.
Darn you guys! Imagine the cheek of leaving stale tutorials on the web for
unsuspecting VMS wanna-users to stumble over...
Wherry's tutorial is the one I have been using and other than this niggling
SHOW NET issue everything else seems to work.
>
> > I believe I tried turning DHCP off before and it didn't change the SHOW
> > NET display either. Just tried it now and doesn't help.
>
> Believe?
Please see next sentence (and you quoted it above): "Just tried it now and
doesn't help."
Confirming my belief for your reading pleasure. Bad day to give up caffeine?
> (Um, that's not a very promising statement when we're trying to
> troubleshoot errors.) Try turning DHCP off within OpenVMS
I can do that
> and assigning a static address to the OpenVMS box
From with the TCPIP$CONFIG or somewhere else?
>, with a static DNS server address (8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 will work, for
>non-local stuff),
Where is (are) the DNS server address(es) specified in OpenVMS?
>
> > Again, the "problem" is not a functional issue, it's just that SHOW NET
> > doesn't look reasonable. Otherwise the actual network functionality,
> > given the box is not on the air and not in a DMZ, is fine i.e. telnet
> > and ftp in and out work.
>
> Your resolver is also messed up.
How do I resolve it? No pun intended..
> On 2015-03-09 15:58:47 +0000, <li...@openmailbox.org> said:
>
>
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> >>>>> name on my system.
> >>>
> >>> $ SHOW NET
> >>>
> >>> Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
> >>> Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com
> >>> Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
> >>
> >> Again, that's usually a not-FQDN entry somewhere in the configuration.
> >
> > I'll try reentering it with a trailing .
>
> Re-entering WHAT?
The fqdn
>
>
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>> My SHOW NET display seems to indicate a problem with the TCP/IP node
> >>>>> name on my system.
> >>>
> >>> $ SHOW NET
> >>>
> >>> Product: DECNET Node: MYNODE Address(es): 1.1
> >>> Product: TCP/IP Node: MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM.example.com
> >>> Address(es): aa.bb.cc.dd
> >>
> >> Again, that's usually a not-FQDN entry somewhere in the configuration.
> >
> > I'll try reentering it with a trailing .
>
> Re-entering WHAT?
> Where?
in TCPIP$CONFIG, in option 1 where you specify the domain
>
> > Ok, shutdown/restarted TCP/IP...that did nothing. No change in SHOW NET
> > output.
>
> OK. So SHOW NETWORK doesn't work. Are there other problems?
> (Welcome to fossil-grade software on fossil-grade hardware, and probably
> also without various patches. Patch access was withdrawn some years ago,
> which means hobbyists get to see all sorts of long-fixed problems,
> particularly when working with configurations that are a dozen years
> old, and variously older. Since this is not a fatal error, the
> easiest approach is to ignore this, and move on.)
name so why can't I ;-)
>
> >> That's not an expected configuration. Looks like the baseline
> >> configuration was skipped, or maybe — and I don't recommend using
> >> DHCP — DHCP went sideways somewhere.
> >
> > I'm using DHCP because that's what I do with all the boxes on my LAN.
> > It's easier to keep track of things by their MAC and assign them an
> > orderly address on my lan. Going to direct config instead doesn't fix
> > the problem.
>
> I'd reconfigure with static IP and a correct configuration, and would
> NOT use DHCP with VMS.
> I am well aware of the advantages of DHCP.
>
> I would NOT use DHCP on VMS.
>
> Feel free to continue with your current approach, of course. You're
> here to learn what does not work, and so far that includes the
> tutorial, the SHOW NETWORK command, the local IP configuration
> displays, and probably DHCP.
>
> >> You shuld see the domain and the servers listed. Newer operating
> >> systems can tend to adapt better to the network, or to configuration
> >> details. With VMS, you get to tell it more of the details, and DHCP
> >> isn't something that various folks have had the best outcome with.
> >> That means performing at least the entire core network configuration
> >> sequence in TCPIP$CONFIG tool, if that's not already been completed.
> >> (I'd expect this is an issue, if not the issue — I'd expect to see a
> >> domain listed in the above.)
> >
> > I did go through TCPIP$CONFIG several times. I don't know if I did it
> > correctly since I was following a tutorial I found on the net.
>
> Did you go through this with a static configuration?
>
> >> If you have not already done so, minimally complete option 1 and the
> >> core configuration, and it's generally better to use the A option and
> >> get most of the stuff you'll immediately need sort-of working:
> >
> > I have several times already so another time won't hurt. I just did and
> > nothing changed in SHOW NET output.
>
> So you've completed option 1 with a static (non-DHCP) configuration and
> SHOW NETWORK is broken?
> Ah, well. Probably broken command. See if SET NETWORK /REGISTER can
> dig you out of this. But then again, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 is a fossil, and
> yours — like many folks running V7.3 now — probably under-patched. I've
> hit something similar a long time ago
> <http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/489>, and V7.3 is well older than that
> problem...
> >>>> TCPIP> sho config name
> >>>
> >>> %TCPIP-E-CONFIGERROR, error processing configuration request
> >>> -TCPIP-E-NAMERROR, error processing name service request
> >>> -RMS-E-RNF, record not found
> >>
> >> The baseline configuration with TCP/IP Services should have created a
> >> resolver.
tutorial screenshots were wrong or whatever.
> >>>> If you don't have local DNS (BIND server or otherwise), then the
> >>>> BIND resolver configuration — above — might be the source of the
> >>>> error.
> >>>
> >>> There should be no BIND services.
> >>
> >> Arguably, there should be DNS servers, but then OpenVMS is much more
> >> willing to run insecurely than other servers, and unfortunately less
> >> likely to notice the usual sorts of attacks. Your call.
> >
> > This system is behind a router/firewall. Right now it is not on the
> > air. I can port forward if I want to let people telnet in, etc.
> >
> > I am not sure how things should look on VMS but as far as the other OS
> > I have they use /etc/resolv.conf which uses my router as a nameserver.
> > Now that I think of it this seems suboptimal.
>
> The resolver configuration is host-specific — I can't tell if you're
> even running one, here — and /etc/hosts was a mess back in the early
> 1980s, hence the use of DNS servers. For your case — you like the
> simplicity of DHCP, so you'll like what DNS brings, too — I'd again
> recommend gettings local DNS services configured and going.
>
> > TCPIP> show host *
> >
> > Host address Hostname
> > 127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST, localhost
> > aa.bb.cc.dd MYNODE.EXAMPLE.COM
> > %TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
> > %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found
> > -TCPIP-E-BIND_NOSERVERS, default servers are not available
> >
> > Is this normal when all you have is name resolution but are not serving
> > services or did I just break something else by trying this?
>
> You have no resolvers. You've had no resolvers. Which is part of why
> I keep pointing you back at the configuration tool. Or you can't reach
> the servers — but the last resolver configuration you posted had
> indicated no resolvers were configured, which means that was skipped,
> or that there was a configuration corruption or odd network problem
> somewhere in the local configuration.
it possibly from the terminology.
> This configuration is probably hosed — what was in that tutorial, I
> don't know — and I'd likely nuke and pave this thing and start over.
>
> >
> >> It's also possible that the emulator is getting in the way. The
> >> virtual (emulated) networking implementation has been a longstanding
> >> source of weird problems with OpenVMS, and the documentation
> >> associated with various of the emulators has had large gaps, or wasn't
> >> entirely current for the version of the emulator in use.
> >
> > I really don't know.
>
> That wasn't a question. It's been my experience that various emulator
> network documentation stinks, and that the virtual networking has been
> a troublespot for folks.
networking so I'm not ready to point the finger outside my very likely
incorrect setup of OpenVMS yet.
> > I was using a bridged network to run SIMH in user mode and it works
> > fine. I wondered if that was causing wierd name resolution
> > (duplication) because of the bridge so I brought it up again running as
> > root and no network bridging and the SHOW NET output is unchanged. So
> > that wasn't it.
>
> OK. I'd still check with the simh documentation and then with the simh
> mailing list folks for the latest way to get simh configured and
> working with whatever host system you're using here.
(after point BIND at my router) and ftp to the world, and I can ftp and
telnet into the box from my network. Haven't tried port forwarding from my
router but there is no reason it shouldn't work if it works locally. I
don't think this issue has to do with SIMH or host networking or anything
like that.
> Unfortunately, any simh docs that point to old simh resources and
> locations and to a canonical simh source that predates the
> <https://github.com/simh/simh> site is probably stale — Phil Wherry's
> site is very old, for instance. Mine's a few years out of date, and
> has not been re-run to reflect the lastest simh, either.
unsuspecting VMS wanna-users to stumble over...
Wherry's tutorial is the one I have been using and other than this niggling
SHOW NET issue everything else seems to work.
>
> > I believe I tried turning DHCP off before and it didn't change the SHOW
> > NET display either. Just tried it now and doesn't help.
>
> Believe?
doesn't help."
Confirming my belief for your reading pleasure. Bad day to give up caffeine?
> (Um, that's not a very promising statement when we're trying to
> troubleshoot errors.) Try turning DHCP off within OpenVMS
> and assigning a static address to the OpenVMS box
>, with a static DNS server address (8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 will work, for
>non-local stuff),
>
> > Again, the "problem" is not a functional issue, it's just that SHOW NET
> > doesn't look reasonable. Otherwise the actual network functionality,
> > given the box is not on the air and not in a DMZ, is fine i.e. telnet
> > and ftp in and out work.
>
> Your resolver is also messed up.
Stephen Hoffman
Mar 9, 2015, 2:12:52 PM3/9/15
to
On 2015-03-09 17:17:46 +0000, <li...@openmailbox.org> said:
>> Your resolver is also messed up.
>
> How do I resolve it? No pun intended..
Using @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG core options (menu choice 1) and
>> Your resolver is also messed up.
>
> How do I resolve it? No pun intended..
through all of the prompts, or (probably better) TCPIP$CONFIG all
options (menu choice A), all the way through, using a static IP
configuration and not DHCP. and not diverging from what's in the TCP/IP
Services installation and configuration manual in the TCP/IP Services
shelf at the HP OpenVMS documentation web site
<http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc>. Use your terminal emulator, and
keep a copy of the sequence used. Reboot after the installation. Post
the log, if problems persist.
I think you're probably going to be running with TCP/IP V5.3 here (it's
been a while since I've checked that version detail for OpenVMS VAX
V7.3, so please use TCPIP> SHOW VERSION to confirm that detail), so the
TCP/IP Services manuals are at
<http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/tcpip53.html>, which means the
installation and configuration manual for that version is at
<http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/tcpip_install_config.pdf>
The appendices have an example of the installation sequence — which
isn't relevant here — and the far more relevant configuration sequence.
The main section of the manual describes what each prompt means.
When you're just getting going with OpenVMS VAX here, please do not
attempt to diverge from the configuration sequences and details shown
in the manuals — this including specifying the host name and domain
name as shown in the documentation including in the example sequence —
and specify a DNS server from your ISP or using Google DNS (8.8.8.8 and
8.8.4.4) as your servers; don't start out your configuration assuming
local host settings initially, though that does work. Following guides
can sometimes help and sometimes — as is the case here; what's the URL
of the particular example you were following? — cause confusion.
Trying to do what Linux or Unix does here can and variously will cause
problems and confusion and frustration.
Jan-Erik Soderholm
Mar 9, 2015, 4:04:12 PM3/9/15
to
li...@openmailbox.org skrev den 2015-03-09 17:40:
> Hi, ...
works just fine. Such as 192.168.1.1 or whatever the IP
is of your home router.
You can of course also point your resolver to a host name,
but then you also have to enter the host in localhosts
of course... ($ TCPIP SET HOST name /ADDRESS=n.n.n.n)
> It appears on UNIX...
Highly irrelevant. This is a (very old) VMS system.
> ...until I pointed BIND at my router (which is anyway not a BIND server
> but does resolve names)
If it resolves host names into IP address, it *is* a name server.
You make it harder for yourself then needed.
- Forget about DHCP.
- Pick a fixed IP adress.
- Enter it in the "inerfaces" part of the config.
- Enter the ip address of your router in the bind client part.
- Do not enter your name server using a host name.
Jan-Erik.
> Hi, ...
>
> How/where should DNS server names be specified?
You do not need the name of the server, the IP address
> How/where should DNS server names be specified?
works just fine. Such as 192.168.1.1 or whatever the IP
is of your home router.
You can of course also point your resolver to a host name,
but then you also have to enter the host in localhosts
of course... ($ TCPIP SET HOST name /ADDRESS=n.n.n.n)
> It appears on UNIX...
Highly irrelevant. This is a (very old) VMS system.
> ...until I pointed BIND at my router (which is anyway not a BIND server
> but does resolve names)
If it resolves host names into IP address, it *is* a name server.
You make it harder for yourself then needed.
- Forget about DHCP.
- Pick a fixed IP adress.
- Enter it in the "inerfaces" part of the config.
- Enter the ip address of your router in the bind client part.
- Do not enter your name server using a host name.
Jan-Erik.
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