A unique and special insight from VSI and Oracle - London - 23rd May

[Kerry Main]

> -----Original Message-----

Fyi - likely of interest to c.o.v.

LinkedIn Announcement:
<https://bit.ly/2H3lRB8>

The HP User Group in the UK is delighted to announce an OpenVMS
Technical Exchange Day with VSI and Oracle on 23rd May in LONDON.

This is NOT marketing content, Technical personnel from both VSI and
Oracle will be present on-site for this event. They will truly provide
you with information and insight into where things are, and more
importantly where they are going.

An outline agenda is provided below.
0930 - 0945 Welcome / Event Agenda UK User Group / Oracle / VSI
0945 - 1030 Oracle Update Kevin Duffy
1045 - 1145 VSI Business / Overview Update Terry Holmes
1145 - 1230 VSI Technical Update & Roadmap Brett Cameron
1230 - 1315 Lunch
1315 - 1400 Oracle Technical Presentation Kevin Duffy
1400 - 1445 Oracle 12c OpenVMS Port Update Dave Hayter
1445 - 1530 Application Modernization for OpenVMS Customers Brett
Cameron
1530 - 1545 Break
1545 - 1630 Open Source Integration Brett Cameron

We are expecting a high demand for this event and ask you book your
places at ad...@hpug.org.uk

This event is open to OpenVMS Users/Customers outside of the UK as well.
Oracle will be broadcasting the event over a web conference for all
remote attendees.

Please indicate if you plan to attend remotely so that we can send you
the web conference details.

The Venue:
Oracle Corporation UK Ltd
1 South Place
London
EC2M 2RB

We hope to see you there.
If you have any questions please reply to
ad...@hpug.org.uk

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2018-04-16 kl. 03:17, skrev Kerry Main:
>> -----Original Message-----
>
> Fyi - likely of interest to c.o.v.
>
> LinkedIn Announcement:
> <https://bit.ly/2H3lRB8>
>
> The HP User Group in the UK is delighted to announce an OpenVMS
> Technical Exchange Day with VSI and Oracle on 23rd May in LONDON.

Ah, first thought that it was the same day, but the event in Sweden
is the 23rd of *April*... :-)

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hp-connect-sweden-vms-sig-annual-meeting-tickets-42639545027

[John Reagan]

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 7:37:38 AM UTC+1, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:

>
> Ah, first thought that it was the same day, but the event in Sweden
> is the 23rd of *April*... :-)
>

For that, you get both Brett *AND* me.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Yep. Travel arranged and hotel booked... :-)

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 4/15/2018 9:17 PM, Kerry Main wrote:
> LinkedIn Announcement:
> <https://bit.ly/2H3lRB8>
>
> The HP User Group in the UK is delighted to announce an OpenVMS
> Technical Exchange Day with VSI and Oracle on 23rd May in LONDON.
>
> This is NOT marketing content, Technical personnel from both VSI and
> Oracle will be present on-site for this event. They will truly provide
> you with information and insight into where things are, and more
> importantly where they are going.
>
> An outline agenda is provided below.
> 0930 - 0945 Welcome / Event Agenda UK User Group / Oracle / VSI
> 0945 - 1030 Oracle Update Kevin Duffy
> 1045 - 1145 VSI Business / Overview Update Terry Holmes
> 1145 - 1230 VSI Technical Update & Roadmap Brett Cameron
> 1230 - 1315 Lunch
> 1315 - 1400 Oracle Technical Presentation Kevin Duffy
> 1400 - 1445 Oracle 12c OpenVMS Port Update Dave Hayter
> 1445 - 1530 Application Modernization for OpenVMS Customers Brett
> Cameron
> 1530 - 1545 Break
> 1545 - 1630 Open Source Integration Brett Cameron

Given that Oracle DB and RDB are two of the most important
commercial software packages still available for VMS, then
positive signals from Oracle is a very good thing.

And maybe this can even be seen as an indication that VSI has
a better relationship with Oracle than HP had.

Arne

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <pb609c$1pr5$3...@gioia.aioe.org>, =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?=

Maybe. But I see "Rdb" nowhere in the above. Rather, I see "Oracle
12c", which sounds like "Oracle classic".

If there is no Rdb content in this event, this should be communicated
clearly, as many people (including myself, until I read through the
agenda again) will assume VMS+Oracle=Rdb. If there is Rdb content, it
should be stated explicitly.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Any "Oracle Update" points has always before contained both Databases.
Of course Rdb is mentioned in a VMS oriented event.

But yes, having Rdb mentioned an any agenda is always nice... :-)

Jan-Erik.

[Arne Vajhøj]

I guess it should.

But to me the specific agenda items are less important than the
signal that Oracle are interested in VMS and VSI.

Arne

[Richard Maher]

I think the specific Oracle 12C port is extremely important! Well done
Kevin et al!

Why has Oracle jumped versions from 12c to 18c?

I love Rdb and Kevin Duffy is in charge of both but I doubt that the new
features list presentation will take up much time.


>
>

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 4/18/2018 9:32 PM, Richard Maher wrote:
> Why has Oracle jumped versions from 12c to 18c?

https://blogs.oracle.com/database/oracle-database-18c-:-now-available-on-the-oracle-cloud-and-oracle-engineered-systems

<quote>
Oracle Database 18c is the first version of the product to follow a
yearly release pattern. From here onwards the Oracle Database will be
released every year along with quarterly updates.
...
If you’re confused as to why we’ve apparently skipped 6 releases of
Oracle it may be simpler to regard “Oracle Database 18c” as “Oracle
Database 12c Release 2 12.2.0.2”, where we’ve simply changed the naming
to reflect the year in which the product is released.
</quote>

Arne

[IanD]

I thought the jump in version numbers was to show that 18c was a game changer and is the base from which Oracle can deliver you a fully automated DB (no more system DBA's apparently)

One of the DBA's in a large Indian IT outsourcing company sent me a message about the presentation they were all made to watch from Oracle. They were told the days of the system DBA is numbered (gotta love moral building Indian IT outsourcing style. I certainly don't miss not working for them anymore!).

Sure, Oracle require to be in full control of your environment (and that's a worry!!!) but there were customers saying they would be happy to go down this path

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/08/oracle_openworld_2017_analysus/

*Not a good source but I'm in a hurry

I really don't think RDB can get anywhere near what Oracle can do with 18c and it's full automation. I don't think RDB even today can do live index builds and it still has issues with long running transactions with snapshots - but I have not looked at the latest versions but these issues have been around for a very long time, I would be pleasantly surprised if they had fixed these

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Well, we run Rdb for years with no active DBA... :-)

I have not read the material so I cannot comment really.
I will try to understand what "live index builds" means,
but yes, you can build new indexes on-line ("live") in Rdb.

The only issue with (very) long read-only transactions is
that the snapshot files grows. There have been some work
done in that area in later versions, if I'm not wrong.

If I understand correctly, they just move the DBA role to
Oracles DBA-automation services (?).

Jan-Erik.

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2018-04-19 12:20:07 +0000, IanD said:

> I thought the jump in version numbers was to show that 18c

Oracle is embedding the year into their product versions now, with
product releases such as the current Java 18.3 (formerly and variously
still Java 10) and the upcoming Java 18.9 (Java 11) release.



--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <pb8rir$86d$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Richard Maher

<maher_rj...@hotmail.com> writes:

> >>> Given that Oracle DB and RDB are two of the most important
> >>> commercial software packages still available for VMS, then
> >>> positive signals from Oracle is a very good thing.
> >>>
> >>> And maybe this can even be seen as an indication that VSI has
> >>> a better relationship with Oracle than HP had.
> >>
> >> Maybe.  But I see "Rdb" nowhere in the above. Rather, I see "Oracle
> >> 12c", which sounds like "Oracle classic".
> >>
> >> If there is no Rdb content in this event, this should be communicated
> >> clearly, as many people (including myself, until I read through the
> >> agenda again) will assume VMS+Oracle=Rdb. If there is Rdb content, it
> >> should be stated explicitly.
> >
> > I guess it should.
> >
> > But to me the specific agenda items are less important than the
> > signal that Oracle are interested in VMS and VSI.

I don't know how important Oracle Classic on VMS is nor to whom, but my
guess is that vastly more people are running Rdb on VMS. Most of these
are not interested in Oracle Classic. So, if we knew whether there will
be Rdb content and if so how much, then more people might attend, most
of them probably big customers interested in staying on VMS with VSI and
Rdb. On the other hand, if it even SEEMS LIKE they are being neglected,
that is not good marketing. :-|

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Don't worry, I have never been to a joint Oracle/VMS event
where Rdb has *not* been a subject.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <pbaqgh$jjt$1...@dont-email.me>,
=?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik....@telia.com>
writes:

> Don't worry, I have never been to a joint Oracle/VMS event
> where Rdb has *not* been a subject.

OK, but in those cases wasn't Rdb mentioned on the agenda? Here it is
conspicuous by its absence. Surely someone from Oracle or VSI has been
reading this thread. Why has there been no clarification? Even if
there is nothing new with respect to Rdb, no news is perhaps good news
(i.e. "if VMS is on x86 we will support Rdb on it" still holds), but at
least mentioning it would be good. Remember when DEC, Compaq, HP just
"forgot" to mention VMS?

Certainly anyone who needs to justify travel funds needs "Rdb" on the
list to convince those with the money that this is relevant for Rdb at
all.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2018-04-20 kl. 11:45, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
> In article <pbaqgh$jjt$1...@dont-email.me>,
> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik....@telia.com>
> writes:
>
>> Don't worry, I have never been to a joint Oracle/VMS event
>> where Rdb has *not* been a subject.
>
> OK, but in those cases wasn't Rdb mentioned on the agenda?

Usually just "Oracle on OpenVMS update". Long ago there were
specific Rdb-only events. Long ago...

> Here it is
> conspicuous by its absence. Surely someone from Oracle or VSI has been
> reading this thread. Why has there been no clarification?

Probably becuse there is no need for a clarification.
You are reading too much into this...

[Richard Maher]

PL/SQL is amazing! As is much of the 'Oribble Oracle echo system and
Cache Fusion and simple things like SELECT BY PRIOR. I don't know how
I'd do a hierarchical query in Rdb SQL. Oracle still has REDO log
blowouts and they are many things to dislike.

The fact that a current version is on VMS is a great achievement same
with Java and Apache! It just speaks volumes as to VMS viability.

Of course Rdb will be on VMS and talked about.

[IanD]

As to the question about building indexes in RDB, I was no meaning building new indexes while the DB was in use, I was referring to rebuilding an existing index while the DB is in use

i.e. rebuilding an existing, in use, index, while it is in use and the DB is open

When I last used RDB, we used to have to kick everyone off. Drop the index, rebuild it, then allow people back on again.

Getting rid of snapshots that can never shrink was also painful until truncate snapshot came along. I hate that RDB snapshots just keep growing

I believe Oracle uses Linux file system ability to read a file that is being written to, hence it can rebuild an index on the fly while DB users are attached and accessing the index?

Not sure what it would take to get RDB to be able to do this

> The only issue with (very) long read-only transactions is
> that the snapshot files grows. There have been some work
> done in that area in later versions, if I'm not wrong.
>
> If I understand correctly, they just move the DBA role to
> Oracles DBA-automation services (?).
>
> Jan-Erik.

Yes, but I think it's more, it looks to be some type of cloud offering system that you need to sell your soul for

https://www.oracle.com/au/database/autonomous-database/index.html

[johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk]

Is this event still on and/or bookable?
Where is further information available online?

Clicking on Kerry's bitly LinkedIn URL from a couple
of weeks ago, I am asked to sign in to LinkedIn (as
Kerry). Tried both Chrome (fairly standard) and
Firefox with script and ad blockers enabled. Is it
just me?

Searching for a sentence from Kerry's posted extract
finds a link to an hpug page:
www.hpug.org.uk/content/openvms-technical-exchange-day-vsi-and-oracle
but that page and indeed the hpug.org.uk main home page
just get the following messy (from the hosting provider?):
"This site is currently unavailable.

If you're the owner of this website, please log in to
your User Area to get this resolved.

SiteGround"

Tried from two dissimilar devices with two sets of
software and two dissimilar ISPs.

Not the end of the world, but...

[norman....@verizon.net]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: johnwallace4--- via Info-vax <info...@info-vax.com>
> To: info-vax <info...@info-vax.com>
> Sent: Thu, May 10, 2018 4:30 pm
> Subject: Re: [New Info-vax] A unique and special insight from VSI and Oracle - London - 23rd May
>
> On Monday, 16 April 2018 02:20:07 UTC+1, Kerry Main wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > Fyi - likely of interest to c.o.v.
> >
> > LinkedIn Announcement:
> > <https://bit.ly/2H3lRB8>
> >
> > The HP User Group in the UK is delighted to announce an OpenVMS
> > Technical Exchange Day with VSI and Oracle on 23rd May in LONDON.
> >
> > This is NOT marketing content, Technical personnel from both VSI and
> > Oracle will be present on-site for this event. They will truly provide
> > you with information and insight into where things are, and more
> > importantly where they are going.
> >
> > An outline agenda is provided below.
> > 0930 - 0945 Welcome / Event Agenda UK User Group / Oracle / VSI
> > 0945 - 1030 Oracle Update Kevin Duffy
> > 1045 - 1145 VSI Business / Overview Update Terry Holmes
> > 1145 - 1230 VSI Technical Update & Roadmap Brett Cameron

v> 1230 - 1315 Lunch

Clicking on the bitly LinkedIn URL gives me this:

=======

Ian Severn

Secretariat at HPUG UK Ltd and Owner, Integr8 Services Ltd

OpenVMS - A unique and special insight from VSI and Oracle - London - 23rd May

The HP User Group in the UK is delighted to announce an OpenVMS Technical Exchange Day with VSI and Oracle on 23rd May in LONDON.

This is NOT marketing content, Technical personnel from both VSI and Oracle will be present on-site for this event. They will truly provide you with information and insight into where things are, and more importantly where they are going.

An outline agenda is provided below.
0930 - 0945 Welcome / Event Agenda UK User Group / Oracle / VSI
0945 - 1030 Oracle Update Kevin Duffy
1045 - 1145 VSI Business / Overview Update Terry Holmes
1145 - 1230 VSI Technical Update & Roadmap Brett Cameron
1230 - 1315 Lunch
1315 - 1400 Oracle Technical Presentation Kevin Duffy
1400 - 1445 Oracle 12c OpenVMS Port Update Dave Hayter
1445 - 1530 Application Modernization for OpenVMS Customers Brett Cameron
1530 - 1545 Break
1545 - 1630 Open Source Integration Brett Cameron

We are expecting a high demand for this event and ask you book your places at ad...@hpug.org.uk

This event is open to OpenVMS Users/Customers outside of the UK as well. Oracle will be broadcasting the event over a web conference for all remote attendees.

Please indicate if you plan to attend remotely so that we can send you the web conference details.

The Venue:
Oracle Corporation UK Ltd
1 South Place
London
EC2M 2RB

We hope to see you there.
If you have any questions please reply to
ad...@hpug.org.uk

=======

What part of the please-reply-to address did you not grok?

> Searching for a sentence from Kerry's posted extract
> finds a link to an hpug page:
> www.hpug.org.uk/content/openvms-technical-exchange-day-vsi-and-oracle
> but that page and indeed the hpug.org.uk main home page
> just get the following messy (from the hosting provider?):
> "This site is currently unavailable.
>
> If you're the owner of this website, please log in to
> your User Area to get this resolved.
>
> SiteGround"
>
> Tried from two dissimilar devices with two sets of
> software and two dissimilar ISPs.
>
> Not the end of the world, but...

_______________________________________________

Norman F. Raphael
Please reply to: norman....@ieee.org
"Everything worthwhile eventually
degenerates into real work." -Murphy

[johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk]

Fwiw, HPUG UK website was working for me again when I tried
it just now, although it wasn't working earlier this week.

The announcement/agenda for the Oracle/VSI/etc event in
London (UK) on May 23rd is available (again) at
http://www.hpug.org.uk/content/openvms-technical-exchange-day-vsi-and-oracle

Share and enjoy :)

[Baldrick]

On Wednesday, 16 May 2018 10:16:11 UTC+1, johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

>
> Share and enjoy :)

Well what a nice day.

Clear message about how Oracle are pushing forward with their products from Kevin Duffy, classic and RDB for VMS and ready to go x86-64 when available, and Dave Hayter explaining some of the challenges of porting and making code releases the same on multiple platforms.

Terry Holmes delivered a clear message about VSI directions and futures, and Camiel Vanderhoeven gave a great session on x86-64 progress so far. Ari de Groot gave an interesting presentation on putting VAX and Alpha into a cloud environment. Brett Cameron sparked an interesting bit of controversy over open source but clearly making "products" available on OpenVMS gives users more options and choice.

Was nice to catch up with a few familiar faces and one or two new ones too.