VMS Software, Inc. Hires New Vice President of Sales and Marketing

[Hans Bachner]

Details on

<http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/06/prweb14463074.htm>

Hans.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

"VMS Software, Inc. (VSI) today announced that Terry R. Holmes has
joined VMS Software as its Vice President of Sales and Marketing,
reporting to CEO, Duane Harris."


Couldn't do any harm, I guess...

[Simon Clubley]

Good. It's way past time VSI did this.

>
> Couldn't do any harm, I guess...

If the guy's any good at his job then VSI will now start doing the
things it should have started doing a couple of years ago.

Number 1 is to start telling the people you don't even know exist
that VSI exists and is a possible future option for your existing
VMS systems.

This means raising the profile of VSI way more than it currently is.

The idea is to tell people _now_ and not two years in the future that
VMS on x86-64 is coming in a couple of years. This simple piece of
information may cause people to run their existing systems for a bit
longer instead of replacing them today for a non-VMS solution.

Once that conversion to a non-VMS system is complete then that's
a lost customer as far as VSI are concerned because you will never
get them back.

I strongly suspect a number of recently ex-VMS customers are going
to start saying in a couple of years "Why the hell didn't you tell
me VMS was coming to x86-64 ??? I thought it was a dead OS so I moved
away from VMS."

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

I might still be dead. Time will tell... :-) :-)

Anyway, I hope your positive tone also helps a lot.

>
> Simon.
>

[MG]

Op 28-jun-2017 om 15:24 schreef Jan-Erik Soderholm:

> I might still be dead. Time will tell... :-) :-)

The undead roam comp.os.vms...

- MG

[Simon Clubley]

On 2017-06-28, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
>
> Anyway, I hope your positive tone also helps a lot.
>

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not. :-)

Sometimes it can be the little things which help to make the difference.

For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?

If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
(maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?

BTW, if they do this, they would need to make sure that Google doesn't
confuse VMS with VMs.

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 6/29/2017 1:30 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2017-06-28, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, I hope your positive tone also helps a lot.
>>
>
> I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not. :-)
>
> Sometimes it can be the little things which help to make the difference.
>
> For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
> people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
> away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
> them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?
>
> If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
> also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
> (maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?
>
> BTW, if they do this, they would need to make sure that Google doesn't
> confuse VMS with VMs.

Yeah, want to be sure and get all the ads for Virtual Milking Systems
and Virtual Messaging Systems.

And that;s just the two current meanings for VMS I am very familiar
with. I am sure there are more. Oh wait, maybe Google uses Watson
and can tell what you really wanted to see.

bill

[Simon Clubley]

On 2017-06-29, Bill Gunshannon <bill.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/29/2017 1:30 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>
>> BTW, if they do this, they would need to make sure that Google doesn't
>> confuse VMS with VMs.
>
> Yeah, want to be sure and get all the ads for Virtual Milking Systems
> and Virtual Messaging Systems.
>

Which is why you would use specific phrases or keywords related
to migration and porting. It's also why you may end up having to
just use OpenVMS instead of both OpenVMS and VMS if that didn't
narrow things down enough.

It's also why it's best to start with a small scale experiment
while refining the keywords in order to try and avoid any surprises.

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 6/29/2017 1:30 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:

> On 2017-06-28, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
>> Anyway, I hope your positive tone also helps a lot.
>
> I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not. :-)
>
> Sometimes it can be the little things which help to make the difference.
>
> For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
> people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
> away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
> them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?
>
> If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
> also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
> (maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?
>
> BTW, if they do this, they would need to make sure that Google doesn't
> confuse VMS with VMs.

I don't see the point.

Server OS's are not sold via Google adwords.

Articles about VMS on web sites for general computer professionals
would help a lot more.

Arne

[Simon Clubley]

On 2017-06-29, Arne Vajhøj <ar...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 6/29/2017 1:30 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>
>> For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
>> people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
>> away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
>> them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?
>>
>> If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
>> also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
>> (maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?
>>
>> BTW, if they do this, they would need to make sure that Google doesn't
>> confuse VMS with VMs.
>
> I don't see the point.
>

The point is to find those people who need to do something with those
VMS systems in the corner who don't even know that VSI exists.

> Server OS's are not sold via Google adwords.
>

You are not selling anything via Adwords. What you are doing is
introducing someone searching for VMS migration options to the
idea that VMS is going to become natively available on x86-64.

Once you have implanted that bit of knowledge in their head, and hence
made them aware of the existence of VSI, then the normal sales processes
take over.

[David Froble]

Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2017-06-28, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
>> Anyway, I hope your positive tone also helps a lot.
>>
>
> I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not. :-)
>
> Sometimes it can be the little things which help to make the difference.
>
> For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
> people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
> away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
> them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?
>
> If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
> also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
> (maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?
>
> BTW, if they do this, they would need to make sure that Google doesn't
> confuse VMS with VMs.

Finally, perhaps a little good from the renaming to "OpenVMS". Unless one
worries about "Open VMs".

:-)

[David Froble]

Agreed on your suggestion. But, exposure can be a good thing. Look at
politicians. They'd rather bad publicity than no publicity. Anything to get
their name in front of people.

Anything that gets information about VMS in front of people, any people, is a
good thing.

[IanD]

On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:10:22 AM UTC+10, David Froble wrote:

<snip>

>
> Anything that gets information about VMS in front of people, any people, is a
> good thing.

^ This

When I search, all I get is Vendor Management Systems, which are hiring bodies far in excess of VMS the OS, so they get all the Google hits

Rather than try and fight a much bigger trend of using the name VMS, perhaps consider renaming it it something like VMS-OS to differentiate it from the riff-raff?

Pointless trying to reeducate the world to a name that for all intense purposes was surrendered years ago through stagnation

Even in a major outsourcing company there was confusion all the time around VMS and VM's

OpenVMS or VMS-OS cause far less confusion, but then look at how many here still use the old name VMS in conversation. I started using OpenVMS here but gave up since everyone else just used VMS and I didn't want to seem like a purist

Let's hope the new Sales and Marketing person also see's the need for clear concise naming and marketing lingo too so we move forward with consistency

[Paul Sture]

On 2017-07-02, IanD <iloveo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:10:22 AM UTC+10, David Froble wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>
>> Anything that gets information about VMS in front of people, any people, is a
>> good thing.
>
> ^ This
>
> When I search, all I get is Vendor Management Systems, which are
> hiring bodies far in excess of VMS the OS, so they get all the Google
> hits
>
> Rather than try and fight a much bigger trend of using the name VMS,
> perhaps consider renaming it it something like VMS-OS to differentiate
> it from the riff-raff?
>
> Pointless trying to reeducate the world to a name that for all intense
> purposes was surrendered years ago through stagnation
>
> Even in a major outsourcing company there was confusion all the time
> around VMS and VM's
>
> OpenVMS or VMS-OS cause far less confusion, but then look at how many
> here still use the old name VMS in conversation. I started using
> OpenVMS here but gave up since everyone else just used VMS and I
> didn't want to seem like a purist

I moved to using "openvms" in searches when the search engines started
to return matches on VMware and VirtualBox, about 6-7 years ago IIRC.

Remember, the Open in OpenVMS has been there for about 25 years, even
though it was mostly "silent".

--
Everybody has a testing environment. Some people are lucky enough to
have a totally separate environment to run production in.

[johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk]

Presumably m'learned friends the Intellectual Property Rights
lawyers etc feel they are entitled to dictate what the OS is
officially called, but when others are using the 'friendly
name' why wouldn't it just be called VSIVMS?

A search for VSIVMS already gets a few hits for the real thing,
and although there's still some noise in the signal, there are
probably worse places to start from.

Go with the flow?

[Paul Sture]

> Presumably m'learned friends the Intellectual Property Rights
> lawyers etc feel they are entitled to dictate what the OS is
> officially called, but when others are using the 'friendly
> name' why wouldn't it just be called VSIVMS?
>
> A search for VSIVMS already gets a few hits for the real thing,
> and although there's still some noise in the signal, there are
> probably worse places to start from.
>
> Go with the flow?

I rather like that suggestion. It not only takes us forward, but serves
as a reminder that "new things" are only going to come from VSI.

As is future support :-)

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 6/29/2017 8:42 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2017-06-29, Arne Vajhøj <ar...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 6/29/2017 1:30 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
>>> people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
>>> away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
>>> them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?
>>>
>>> If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
>>> also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
>>> (maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?

>> I don't see the point.
>
> The point is to find those people who need to do something with those
> VMS systems in the corner who don't even know that VSI exists.
>
>> Server OS's are not sold via Google adwords.
>
> You are not selling anything via Adwords. What you are doing is
> introducing someone searching for VMS migration options to the
> idea that VMS is going to become natively available on x86-64.
>
> Once you have implanted that bit of knowledge in their head, and hence
> made them aware of the existence of VSI, then the normal sales processes
> take over.

If they are already googling for VMS information then I would think
they have also heard about VSI.

Arne

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 6/29/2017 9:10 PM, David Froble wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 6/29/2017 1:30 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
>>> people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
>>> away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
>>> them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?
>>>
>>> If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
>>> also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
>>> (maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?

>> I don't see the point.
>>
>> Server OS's are not sold via Google adwords.
>>
>> Articles about VMS on web sites for general computer professionals
>> would help a lot more.
>
> Agreed on your suggestion. But, exposure can be a good thing. Look at
> politicians. They'd rather bad publicity than no publicity. Anything
> to get their name in front of people.
>
> Anything that gets information about VMS in front of people, any people,
> is a good thing.

Sure.

But adwords cost money.

I strongly suspect that VSI will get more bang for the
buck choosing different paths.

Arne

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Den 2017-07-02 kl. 17:15, skrev IanD:
> On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:10:22 AM UTC+10, David Froble wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> Anything that gets information about VMS in front of people, any
>> people, is a good thing.
>
> ^ This
>
> When I search, all I get is Vendor Management Systems, which are hiring
> bodies far in excess of VMS the OS, so they get all the Google hits
>
> Rather than try and fight a much bigger trend of using the name VMS,
> perhaps consider renaming it it something like VMS-OS to differentiate
> it from the riff-raff?
>
> Pointless trying to reeducate the world to a name that for all intense
> purposes was surrendered years ago through stagnation
>
> Even in a major outsourcing company there was confusion all the time
> around VMS and VM's
>
> OpenVMS or VMS-OS cause far less confusion, but then look at how many
> here still use the old name VMS in conversation. I started using OpenVMS
> here but gave up since everyone else just used VMS and I didn't want to
> seem like a purist

I sometimes use "VMS" where it doesn't create any confusion (like here on
c.o.v) but always use "OpenVMS" in any more official contexts. That *is*
the right and current name on the product, after all. Claiming anything
else just does VMS a disservice.

>
> Let's hope the new Sales and Marketing person also see's the need for
> clear concise naming and marketing lingo too so we move forward with
> consistency
>

What is wrong with just sticking to OpenVMS?

This can hardly be the most important issue for VSI right now...

[Simon Clubley]

The problem is that the kind of people I would like to see the existence
of VSI advertised to aren't going to know to search for VSIVMS.

They are going to be searching for the terms they are familiar with
which will hopefully include OpenVMS (instead of plain VMS because
of the junk that searching for VMS shows up these days).

If VMS is renamed, then they will not find VMS directly so you would
be relying on the links they find to make the connection for you.

[Simon Clubley]

Someone here a while back (was it Dan ? [*]) said that some of their
VMS customers had never heard of VSI.

[*] Sorry Dan if I have you confused with someone else.

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 7/2/2017 8:01 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2017-07-02, Arne Vajhøj <ar...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 6/29/2017 8:42 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>
>>> You are not selling anything via Adwords. What you are doing is
>>> introducing someone searching for VMS migration options to the
>>> idea that VMS is going to become natively available on x86-64.
>>>
>>> Once you have implanted that bit of knowledge in their head, and hence
>>> made them aware of the existence of VSI, then the normal sales processes
>>> take over.
>>
>> If they are already googling for VMS information then I would think
>> they have also heard about VSI.
>>
>
> Someone here a while back (was it Dan ? [*]) said that some of their
> VMS customers had never heard of VSI.
>
> [*] Sorry Dan if I have you confused with someone else.

Sure.

But we are talking about googling.

If I google "openvms" then:
* the first link is Wikipedia that do mention VSI
* the second link has VSI mentione din the description
* the fifth link is to VSI

I don't think it is that difficult to find VSI if you start googling.

Arne

[David Froble]

I decided to do a test.

Searched for VMS OS

First 10 hits were all about VMS, the operating system.

Yeah, I too would have first searched for "VMS", but if I got a bunch of
unwanted junk, then I "should" know to be a bit more specific.

[Kerry Main]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax...@rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of
> David Froble via Info-vax
> Sent: July 2, 2017 10:09 PM
> To: info...@rbnsn.com
> Cc: David Froble <da...@tsoft-inc.com>
> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] VMS Software, Inc. Hires New Vice President of
> Sales and Marketing
>

Other OS's have had to deal with name changes, so its not like OpenVMS
is any different.

Windows NT --> Windows Server
SunOS --> Solaris
MVS --> z/OS

Trying to market VMS would be like Microsoft marketing Windows NT or
Oracle marketing SunOS.

When in "family" conversations, references to VMS are fine. Similarly, I
am sure many mainframe types still refer to their OS as MVS.

When in "business mode", references should always be to "OpenVMS"

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

[Hans Bachner]

Simon Clubley schrieb am 03.07.2017 um 01:56:
> [snip]

>
> The problem is that the kind of people I would like to see the existence
> of VSI advertised to aren't going to know to search for VSIVMS.
>
> They are going to be searching for the terms they are familiar with
> which will hopefully include OpenVMS (instead of plain VMS because
> of the junk that searching for VMS shows up these days).
>
> If VMS is renamed, then they will not find VMS directly so you would
> be relying on the links they find to make the connection for you.

The question is whether these people even realize that VMS has been
renamed, let alone to which new name.

I guess OpenVMS is still the best option for the name.

Hans.

[Scott Dorsey]

David Froble <da...@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>
>First 10 hits were all about VMS, the operating system.
>
>Yeah, I too would have first searched for "VMS", but if I got a bunch of
>unwanted junk, then I "should" know to be a bit more specific.

It is clear to me that what VMS marketing needs is a really good VMS theme
song. OS/360 has the classic Beatles "We All Live With An IBM Machine,"
Windows has the Buzzcock's "Something's Gone Wrong Again" but there is no
good song for VMS.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 7/3/2017 8:58 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> David Froble <da...@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> First 10 hits were all about VMS, the operating system.
>>
>> Yeah, I too would have first searched for "VMS", but if I got a bunch of
>> unwanted junk, then I "should" know to be a bit more specific.
>
>
> It is clear to me that what VMS marketing needs is a really good VMS theme
> song. OS/360 has the classic Beatles "We All Live With An IBM Machine,"
> Windows has the Buzzcock's "Something's Gone Wrong Again" but there is no
> good song for VMS.
> --scott
>

How about Mary Hopkins "Those Were The Days"?

bill

[Bob Koehler]

In article <ojblc0$1r59$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= <ar...@vajhoej.dk> writes:
>
> If they are already googling for VMS information then I would think
> they have also heard about VSI.

I still see ads for "VAX/VMS on Alpha". So I'd not be so sure they
know VSI form DEC.

[IanD]

You are merely Googling TODAY and seeing the picture in regards to VSI popping up

12 months ago or even 6 months ago this was NOT the case at all

6 months ago when you Googled VMS, you got references to 'dead systems' and VSI was not even on the first page returned!

Try going back in Google cache and see what the picture was like which is exactly why people are basically saying 'about time' or 'long overdue'

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Den 2017-07-04 kl. 05:17, skrev IanD:

> 6 months ago when you Googled VMS,...

Don't do that. Google it's correct name instead, "OpenVMS".

I get:
1:st Swedish Wikipedia page.
2:nd English Wikipedia page.
3:rd openvms.org.
4:th VMS Software Inc home page.
5:th HPE OpenVMS home page.

I have a hard time seing any issues with that.

[IanD]

Wasn't the point being made that people didn't even know that VSI had taken over the reigns and that Google didn't make things any clearer?

OpenVMS may indeed be it's name and it was in fact changed a long time ago but look here, on this forum and you'll find people who have kept up with OpenVMS still using the name VMS, what hope then for all those out there whom we are trying to reach and let know that OpenVMS is not dead!

I was making the point that people are saying Google VMS and it;s ok, but 6 months ago that was not the case at all, Googleing VMS resulted in articles about Dead VMS

Even if you Googled OpenVMS you got the same thing '6 months ago', which was the specific point I was making

Sure, today the landscape might be different in Google but it wasn't 6 months ago, irrespective of what term you used

The other point being made (not by myself) was that more than 6 months ago (some might argue 2 years ago) was in fact the time to get the message out that OpenVMS was back in the land of the living and to 'watch this space'

I'm quite aware that if you Google now the results are more favorable but the specific point being made was that 6 months ago this was not the case whether you searched for OpenVMS or VMS, the result was the same, that OpenVMS/VMS had no future and that VSI didn't even show up on the first page searched

How many people have migrated away in that time I wonder :-(

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Den 2017-07-04 kl. 10:58, skrev IanD:
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2017 at 6:17:47 PM UTC+10, Jan-Erik Soderholm
> wrote:
>> Den 2017-07-04 kl. 05:17, skrev IanD:
>>
>>> 6 months ago when you Googled VMS,...
>>
>> Don't do that. Google it's correct name instead, "OpenVMS".
>>
>> I get: 1:st Swedish Wikipedia page. 2:nd English Wikipedia page. 3:rd
>> openvms.org. 4:th VMS Software Inc home page. 5:th HPE OpenVMS home
>> page.
>>
>> I have a hard time seing any issues with that.
>
> Wasn't the point being made that people didn't even know that VSI had
> taken over the reigns and that Google didn't make things any clearer?
>
> OpenVMS may indeed be it's name and it was in fact changed a long time

> ago but look here...

Is there *anyone here* that doesn't know that the name is "openvms"?

> on this forum and you'll find people who have kept up

> with OpenVMS still using the name VMS,...

It is not uncommon to use shorthand writing "whithin the family", so
to speak. But when talkning either professional or to a customer or
similar, OpenVMS *is* the same since long ago.

> what hope then for all those out
> there whom we are trying to reach and let know that OpenVMS is not
> dead!
>
> I was making the point that people are saying Google VMS and it;s ok,

Anyone can make a mistake. I also saw posts saying "google openvms".

> but 6 months ago that was not the case at all, Googleing VMS resulted in
> articles about Dead VMS

So something has changed in 6 months then. Fine! :-)

>
> Even if you Googled OpenVMS you got the same thing '6 months ago', which
> was the specific point I was making
>
> Sure, today the landscape might be different in Google but it wasn't 6
> months ago, irrespective of what term you used

OK, so it was worse 6 months ago. Good that it is better today, isn't it?
The world seems to have moved on since then.

>
> The other point being made (not by myself) was that more than 6 months
> ago (some might argue 2 years ago) was in fact the time to get the
> message out that OpenVMS was back in the land of the living and to
> 'watch this space'
>
> I'm quite aware that if you Google now the results are more favorable
> but the specific point being made was that 6 months ago this was not the
> case whether you searched for OpenVMS or VMS, the result was the same,
> that OpenVMS/VMS had no future and that VSI didn't even show up on the
> first page searched
>
> How many people have migrated away in that time I wonder :-(
>

Those large enough to matter to VSI was certenly aware to VSI and
was informed. Those VMS sites to small to matter had probably migrated
away anyway, no matter what VSI or anyone else had done at that time.

[David Froble]

Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:

> Is there *anyone here* that doesn't know that the name is "openvms"?

I'm very sure there are. Are they relevant? Don't know. There are still
people calling it "the VAX".

As a possible example, some shop has an old VAX still in use, and the people
there know it only as "the VAX". It's also possible that they don't know about
paths forward for "the VAX".

Don't assume that what you know is universal. It isn't, and never will be.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

He, at my customer some calls the Alpha installed in 1994 "the VAX"... :-)

But then, they are not *here*. I ment those of use that read c.o.v.
I do not think that anyone here on c.o.v doesn't know what the
(correct) name of the product is...

So sticking to "VMS" when communicating with the world at large,
is just plain silly.

[David Froble]

Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Den 2017-07-04 kl. 16:57, skrev David Froble:
>> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>>
>>> Is there *anyone here* that doesn't know that the name is "openvms"?
>>
>> I'm very sure there are. Are they relevant? Don't know. There are
>> still people calling it "the VAX".
>>
>> As a possible example, some shop has an old VAX still in use, and the
>> people there know it only as "the VAX". It's also possible that they
>> don't know about paths forward for "the VAX".
>>
>> Don't assume that what you know is universal. It isn't, and never
>> will be.
>
>
> He, at my customer some calls the Alpha installed in 1994 "the VAX"... :-)
>
> But then, they are not *here*. I ment those of use that read c.o.v.
> I do not think that anyone here on c.o.v doesn't know what the
> (correct) name of the product is...

I'd agree that that's likely. But notice, it's c.o.v, not c.o.o

:-)

> So sticking to "VMS" when communicating with the world at large,
> is just plain silly.
>

That I won't agree with. I will admit to arguments for both sides of the issue.

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 7/3/2017 11:17 PM, IanD wrote:
> On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 10:12:00 AM UTC+10, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 7/2/2017 8:01 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> Someone here a while back (was it Dan ? [*]) said that some of their
>>> VMS customers had never heard of VSI.
>>>
>>> [*] Sorry Dan if I have you confused with someone else.
>>
>> Sure.
>>
>> But we are talking about googling.
>>
>> If I google "openvms" then:
>> * the first link is Wikipedia that do mention VSI
>> * the second link has VSI mentione din the description
>> * the fifth link is to VSI
>>
>> I don't think it is that difficult to find VSI if you start googling.
>

> You are merely Googling TODAY and seeing the picture in regards to VSI popping up
>
> 12 months ago or even 6 months ago this was NOT the case at all
>
> 6 months ago when you Googled VMS, you got references to 'dead systems' and VSI
>
was not even on the first page returned!

OK.

But VSI need to act today on what Google finds today. Unless they invent
a time machine they can't fix the reality 6 months ago.

Arne

[Bill Gunshannon]

Well, at the time I (finally) retired from the Computing Sciences
Department at the University of Scranton I can definitely tell you
all the faculty never thought anything but a VAX was used (they
actually went Alpha when they were introduced) and none of them
would be familiar with the term OpenVMS and when discussing it still
called it just VMS.

So, unless your desire is to only speak to people who would never have
heard about VMS/OpenVMS using the term VMS is likely the only way they
would know what you were talkng about.

And, no, I don't think the people in my department are unique among
former VMS users.

bill

[Craig A. Berry]

On 7/4/17 4:04 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

> unless your desire is to only speak to people who would never have
> heard about VMS/OpenVMS using the term VMS is likely the only way they
> would know what you were talkng about.

But people who know nothing about OpenBSD recognize immediately from the
name that it is some form of BSD, perhaps even suspecting that it's a
new project carrying forward the old code base in a way that is related
but different. Same goes for VMS/OpenVMS. The person who has never heard
of anything but VMS (and is thus decades out of date) doesn't have to be
a genius to realize that OpenVMS is a newer form of the same thing.
Their interest is more likely to be piqued by something that is clearly
related but different than it is by something they believe died ages ago.

[seasoned_geek]

On Thursday, June 29, 2017 at 1:38:27 PM UTC-5, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> And that;s just the two current meanings for VMS I am very familiar
> with. I am sure there are more. Oh wait, maybe Google uses Watson
> and can tell what you really wanted to see.

Actual the searches usually aren't case sensitive so you get all of the VMs comments about Java VMs, etc.

[David Turner]

All I can say is that Adwords is NOT the way to go.
We did it for two months, and regretted every invoice (each of over
$4000 each) with little additional business.
There are joke businesses out there in which all they do is click the ad
link and the advertiser pays... dearly
Organic (that is manual search engine tweaks) is the best way to do it.

On 6/29/2017 9:07 PM, David Froble wrote:
> Simon Clubley wrote:
>> On 2017-06-28, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
>>> Anyway, I hope your positive tone also helps a lot.
>>>
>>
>> I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not. :-)
>>
>> Sometimes it can be the little things which help to make the difference.

>>
>> For example, are VSI running a Google Adwords campaign so that when
>> people carry out searches using keywords associated with migrating
>> away from VMS to another platform, they also see an advert pointing
>> them to VSI along with some text that VMS is coming natively to x86-64 ?
>>
>> If VSI are not running an Adwords campaign, does anyone else here
>> also think it would be a very good idea for them to try it out
>> (maybe on a small scale initially) to see if it gets them some results ?
>>

>> BTW, if they do this, they would need to make sure that Google doesn't
>> confuse VMS with VMs.
>
> Finally, perhaps a little good from the renaming to "OpenVMS". Unless
> one worries about "Open VMs".
>
> :-)

[Simon Clubley]

On 2017-08-13, David Turner <dtu...@islandco.com> wrote:
> All I can say is that Adwords is NOT the way to go.
> We did it for two months, and regretted every invoice (each of over
> $4000 each) with little additional business.
> There are joke businesses out there in which all they do is click the ad
> link and the advertiser pays... dearly
> Organic (that is manual search engine tweaks) is the best way to do it.
>

Oh well, so much for that idea. :-)

I still encourage others to offer their own VMS marketing ideas.

I still think VSI need to be doing more of a public push _now_ instead
of in a couple of years so they can try and reduce the rate _today_
at which people are moving from VMS to other options.

Some of those people may very well wait if they know another option
for VMS is around the corner.

[IanD]

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 7:25:57 AM UTC+10, Simon Clubley wrote:

<snip>

>
> Some of those people may very well wait if they know another option
> for VMS is around the corner.
>
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

In the last place I worked, I don't think knowing there was another VMS coming would have saved the platform

They wanted to unify their systems around oracle offerings

What might have helped would have been knowing that they didn't have to sit out of support for as long as they were (They were an Alpha shop)

What's disappointing is that VMS used to be used all around the world for that mob, when they system is retired and the data moved off supposedly at the end of this year, that will spell the end of VMS in that organisation and I doubt it's going to get a foothold back in there again

Even where I am now, VMS is not the long term plan and they are using a VSI build

The desire for companies to move towards across the enterprise offerings is very strong, that is the driver behind why they want to move away from VMS

Isolated systems that don't integrate or play well with enterprise monitoring and workloads are seen increasingly as a sore thumb

VMS really needs to be pulling some extraordinary rabbits out of its hat going forward