Multia

[Marc Van Dyck]

Similar to the post just above, I recently became the proud owner of a
Multia, that a friend at work donated to me (the alternative being to
be dumped). Have no idea what I can do with it, so docs, pointers,
whatever, are welcome. Would be particularly glad if it could be used
as a silent workstation.

--
Marc Van Dyck

[Eberhard Heuser]

I have a bootable OpenVMS-Alpha (v7.3) Image for the Multia machine.

Let me know if you're interested.

regards

Eberhard

[johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk]

Are we safe to assume that it's an Alpha Multia? (There were x86
ones too).

Was there ever a 'silent' Multia? My recollection is that they all
had tiny fans, with a tendency to turn into noisy fans. ICBW.

When you say "workstation", do you mean a machine with something
resembling workstation-class performance? [I hope you don't]

An interesting box in its day though.

Lots of potentially relevant (and perhaps interesting) stuff
related to Alpha multia can be found if you search the usual
suspects for
"dec udb alpha",
where UDB = "Universal Desktop Box".

See also e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Multia
which also has some pointers to useful further information
which you might already have seen.

[MG]

Op 25-nov-2017 om 11:46 schreef Marc Van Dyck:

You can run VMS V7.1 and V7.2, reportedly also the 'officially'
"unsupported" V7.3 (but as far as I can remember, and actually
attempted, not beyond that, e.g. V7.3-1 and V7.3-2 will not work...
don't even think about trying V8.4). In my recollection it was
quite mediocre, regardless of the version, mainly due to a number
of limitation (no serial console available for one).

Digital/Tru64 UNIX on the other hand, even up to the latest release
with the most recent patches (as late as 2010~'11), works remarkably
well and with most of its features and functionality present. Same
could be said for OpenBSD and/or NetBSD (one of the two anyway, I
forgot which), except that X support is (or at the time, when I ran
it) was lacking and glitched. The only problem is that the above
aren't VMS... But then you might make it function as a(n X)
terminal for a VMS system?

As for the system being silent? Well, you can swap out the stock
fan (like I did with mine at the time)... which you should
probably consider doing anyway, because the system thermally is
nothing short of being a nightmare. (Not a compliment to DEC's
usual quality standards, I must say.) Beware also of the PSU,
especially the power lines running to the mainboard... Since
these are older systems and depending on how often the mainboard
was taken out (by sliding it out from the back), the copper might
have degraded. Or, that's what appeared to have happened in my
system. (The PSU itself may not have been fully in order
either.) You may find that the system shuts down inexplicably,
in such a situation.

One useful thing, if you intend to keep the system compact and
close to what it was envisioned as (i.e. a compact system), is
to procure a 2½" SCSI HDD. There are many out there on auction
sites (usually 72.8GB 10K-RPM Ultra320 SCSI models with 80-pin
SCA/2 interface), some cost around US$ 10. SCSI interface
converters are easy to come by and the metal grating where
normally the floppy drive and (if present) the antiquated
SCSI-2 laptop HDD allows you to mount this disk with 2½" disk
mounting brackets (these are cheap). The one thing to beware
of and that you may have a harder time to find is a proper HD50
to SCA or HD68 SCSI adapter. (And don't forget to terminate it
properly, too.)

I can show some pictures of the work I did on my Multia/UDB, if
you're interested. (With all the fixes and modifications, also
including a NVR/TOY battery replacement with retainer clip
velcro'ed onto the mainboard.)

- MG

[Marc Van Dyck]

Eberhard Heuser used his keyboard to write :

Definitely yes. Very appreciated.
Please mail me at marc dot gr dot vandyck at skynet dot be
so that we can fix the details.

--
Marc Van Dyck

[Marc Van Dyck]

johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk formulated on samedi :

> On Saturday, 25 November 2017 10:46:31 UTC, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
>> Similar to the post just above, I recently became the proud owner of a
>> Multia, that a friend at work donated to me (the alternative being to
>> be dumped). Have no idea what I can do with it, so docs, pointers,
>> whatever, are welcome. Would be particularly glad if it could be used
>> as a silent workstation.
>>
>> --
>> Marc Van Dyck
>
> Are we safe to assume that it's an Alpha Multia? (There were x86
> ones too).
>
> Was there ever a 'silent' Multia? My recollection is that they all
> had tiny fans, with a tendency to turn into noisy fans. ICBW.

That would be for an office environment. This would certainly be
quieter than the RX2620 that I'm using now. Later I'll use that
at home to access the systems running in my attic.

> When you say "workstation", do you mean a machine with something
> resembling workstation-class performance? [I hope you don't]

No. This box would just be a user interface, not more. A glorified
VXT2000... Just want to be able to run a decwindows session with a few
decterms and sessions from remote systems. No heavy calculation
locally.
By workstation I actually meant system with a screen attached. And,
above all, a real VMS keyboard (edt keypad, you know, all that).

> An interesting box in its day though.
>
> Lots of potentially relevant (and perhaps interesting) stuff
> related to Alpha multia can be found if you search the usual
> suspects for
> "dec udb alpha",
> where UDB = "Universal Desktop Box".
>
> See also e.g.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Multia
> which also has some pointers to useful further information
> which you might already have seen.

I haven't looked for anything yet. I have that box in my cupboard at
work for more than a year now, and had almost forgotten it, but this
previous post about VAXmate took it out of oblivon...

--
Marc Van Dyck

[MG]

Op 25-nov-2017 om 14:50 schreef Marc Van Dyck:

> That would be for an office environment. This would certainly be
> quieter than the RX2620 that I'm using now. Later I'll use that
> at home to access the systems running in my attic.

Compared to that, a lot will be a lot more quiet! (One of the
reasons I don't miss my rx2620s anymore, no matter how fast
they were with dual-core processors, maximum amount of RAM and
all.)

- MG

[Scott Dorsey]

I remember the stock fan on the Multia being very quiet, but also not working
very well. After the first couple failures we replaced the Boxer fans with
much higher volume Comair/Rotron ones and although they were a good bit noisier
the internal temperatures dropped way down.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bill Gunshannon]

You did remember to keep it mounted vertically, right? I
remember reading a lot about Multia's burning up if you
laid them flat on your desk like a PC.

(I actually miss mine....)

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 11/25/2017 08:50 AM, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
>
> No. This box would just be a user interface, not more. A glorified
> VXT2000... Just want to be able to run a decwindows session with a few
> decterms and sessions from remote systems. No heavy calculation locally.
> By workstation I actually meant system with a screen attached. And,
> above all, a real VMS keyboard (edt keypad, you know, all that).
>

You realize that you really don;t need VMS to do this and that
would be a lot of unused overhead. Not knocking VMS, it's just
that the Multia was not a powerhouse in the first place and if
all you really need is an X-terminal.....

bill

[Marc Van Dyck]

on 25/11/2017, Bill Gunshannon supposed :

I don't know a word about Unix, and don't want to. And all X windows
implementations on Windows that I tried had serious flaws. And I want
a real VMS keyboard. Now if you have alternatives to propose...

--
Marc Van Dyck

[Scott Dorsey]

Marc Van Dyck <marc.gr...@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>I don't know a word about Unix, and don't want to. And all X windows
>implementations on Windows that I tried had serious flaws. And I want
>a real VMS keyboard. Now if you have alternatives to propose...

Actually, I liked XWin32 a lot for Windows systems. Works solidly and
reliably with VMS and Unix hosts both.

[tcc...@gmail.com]

If you want a couple more Multia's get in contact. I have at least two plus a pile of spares.

Crabs

[Gianluca Bonetti]

Hi Crabs!
I have a faulty Multia...
If you have spares they will be very useful!

Thank you
gl

[MG]

Op 25-nov-2017 om 15:52 schreef Scott Dorsey:

> I remember the stock fan on the Multia being very quiet, but also not working
> very well.

The latter is the biggest issue, as I pointed out (i.e. poor thermal
design). And as far as the stock fan's noise levels go... I think
this entirely depends on the physical state of the fan (for instance,
its total runtime and whether it has gotten clogged up with dust over
time).

> After the first couple failures we replaced the Boxer fans with
> much higher volume Comair/Rotron ones and although they were a
> good bit noisier the internal temperatures dropped way down.

How did you check the temperatures, did you find a way to get
sensor read-out or did you just use a thermometer?

Also, out of curiosity, did you ever run into PSU or related
issues?

- MG

[tcc...@gmail.com]

Send me an email at: tccrab at comcast dot net, I'll dig out what I have.
'Crabs

[John E. Malmberg]

On 11/27/2017 5:17 PM, tcc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 3:24:01 PM UTC-8, Gianluca Bonetti wrote:
>> Il giorno sabato 25 novembre 2017 20:18:34 UTC+1, tcc...@gmail.com ha scritto:
>>> On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 2:46:31 AM UTC-8, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
>>>> Similar to the post just above, I recently became the proud owner of a
>>>> Multia, that a friend at work donated to me (the alternative being to
>>>> be dumped). Have no idea what I can do with it, so docs, pointers,
>>>> whatever, are welcome. Would be particularly glad if it could be used
>>>> as a silent workstation.

Make sure the battery is good.

First try:

Search for Multia Heat Death. Some folks isolated it down to a specific
bad chip on the one side of the motherboard and allegedly identified a
exact pin-out replacement that is more tolerant of heat.

Then all you should need is the skills to replace the chip.

To make sure it is not fried again, never run the Multia in a horizontal
orientation. Only vertical with none of the vents blocked at all, the
way that the stand holds it.

And if someone is shipping the Multia, the stand needs to be packed and
wrapped separately. If shipped attached to the Multia, it will break
and be very useless.


Alternate options:

The identified failed chip is a IO selector chip. If I recall, the
crash from the failed chip appears later in the boot process, possibly
when VMS is scanning for possible I/O devices.

It should be possible to set the sysgen parameter to "required" or other
minimal configuration which causes that IO device scan to to be skipped.

After all, most of the I/O devices on the motherboard are not supported
anyway by VMS anyway.

As I recall before I replaced the heat-dead Multia, the keyboard, mouse,
SCSI boot disk and screen still worked. So the only real question is if
the ethernet works. (I could be recalling wrong)

If the ethernet works, then it should be possible to hack the normal VMS
boot process to skip the I/O probe and use a burnt Multia as a workstation.

To test ethernet, just try a MOP boot from the console, and see if any
other VMS systems see the broadcast request.


Potentially destructive option.

Most of the Multia's that were out there where the slow 166 Mhz ones. It
might be interesting if there was a way to overclock one of those to see
how fast it could be made to go. Unfortunately only the possibly rare
fast Multias appear to have jumpers to set the clock speed. The slow
cheap ones appear to be soldered in place.

Good Luck
-John
wb8...@qsl.net_work

[alexeyc...@gmail.com]

This is interesting thing. If you still have one or VAXstation and wish to down into basket, I would like to get :)