Is Billy Bitsenbytes celebrating today?

[VAXman-]

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Den 2016-11-03 kl. 15:34, skrev VAX...@SendSpamHere.ORG:

> Is Billy Bitsenbytes celebrating today?

No idea...

Why Should Billy Bitsenbytes be celebrating today?

[Ian Miller]

is he celebrating Sirius Black's Birthday? ;-)

[VAXman-]

VAX Professional/Digital Systems Journal and the corresponding book's readers
will know.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Den 2016-11-03 kl. 16:56, skrev VAX...@SendSpamHere.ORG:
> In article <nvffec$ta2$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:
>> Den 2016-11-03 kl. 15:34, skrev VAX...@SendSpamHere.ORG:
>>
>>> Is Billy Bitsenbytes celebrating today?
>>
>> No idea...
>>
>> Why Should Billy Bitsenbytes be celebrating today?
>
> VAX Professional/Digital Systems Journal and the corresponding book's readers
> will know.
>

Will know *what*, exactly?

[Jim]

> >>> Is Billy Bitsenbytes celebrating today?
> >>
> >> No idea...
> >>
> >> Why Should Billy Bitsenbytes be celebrating today?
> >
> > VAX Professional/Digital Systems Journal and the corresponding book's readers
> > will know.
> >
>
> Will know *what*, exactly?

"Billy"'s a Cubs fan. For those outside the US - the Cubs won the US baseball World Series last night.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

OK. And how relevant is that for anyone on c.o.v?
Besides those inside the US, maybe...

[VAXman-]

https://www.amazon.com/Hitchhikers-Guide-Vms-Unsupported-Undocumented-Can-Go-Away-At-Any-Time-Feature/dp/1878956000

>Besides those inside the US, maybe...

I'm pretty certain that both the VAX Professional/Digital Systems Journal and
Hitchhikers Guide to VMS were available outside of the US of A!

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <nvffec$ta2$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm

Because Bruce Ellis (the one on the left) continues to remain a strong
Cubs fan.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <27d58444-9668-4394...@googlegroups.com>, Jim

Not only that; the last time they one was 1908. (Their opponent this
year hasn't won since 1948.)

[Kerry Main]

Many Canadian folks were watching series very closely as well.

It has some real drama attached to this Chicago Cubs vs.
Cleveland Indians best-of-7 world series:

- Cubs had not won the world series since 1908 (108 years)
- Cleveland Indians had not won world series for 68 years
- Cub fans are well known for their strong support of their team
and "wait till next year" dedication
- Bill Murray and Bob Newhart are celebrity Cubs fans
- Cleveland was up 3 games to 1 at one point in finals
- only 4 teams in baseball history had ever come back from being
down 3 games to 1
- Game 7 (last night) was tied 6-6 at end of 9 and required extra
10th inning

Under strange coincidence
- There are 108 double stitches on a baseball - same number of
years that cubs went without winning world series
- someone tweeted this 2 years ago - Nov 04, 2014
https://www.wired.com/2016/11/tweet-predicted-world-series/

" 2016 World Series.

Cubs vs Indians

And then the world will end with the score tied in game seven in
extra innings #apocalypse"

[insert X files music]

Last few highlights in game:
http://cbsloc.al/2fdFM5t

:-)

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <00B1196B...@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-

@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:

> I'm pretty certain that both the VAX Professional/Digital Systems Journal and
> Hitchhikers Guide to VMS were available outside of the US of A!

Indeed. I have a copy of the HHGTVMS on my shelf.

[Marty]

I have a signed copy of HHGTVMS and forgot all about Billy B. until just now. One too many Pan Galatic Gargle Blasters I assume.

[VAXman-]

ROTFLMFAO!

Just stay away from the Hurricanes or Alabama Slammers or whatever they were
you were drinking at that DECUS in St. Louis. ;)

[Forster, Michael]

Are digital scans or PDF copies available and legal?


Michael Forster
Enterprise Storage and IDX Architect | Information Services
Medical College of Wisconsin
O: (414) 955-4967 | mfor...@mcw.edu


________________________________________
From: Info-vax <info-vax...@rbnsn.com> on behalf of Marty via Info-vax <info...@rbnsn.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 1:59:55 PM
To: info...@rbnsn.com
Cc: Marty
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Is Billy Bitsenbytes celebrating today?

_______________________________________________
Info-vax mailing list
Info...@rbnsn.com
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[Marty]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 4:45:05 PM UTC-8, Forster, Michael wrote:
> Are digital scans or PDF copies available and legal?

I've already said this in a direct email to Michael, but I might as well tell everyone else, too. You can still get copies of HHGTVMS on Amazon.

[Marty]

> >> > I'm pretty certain that both the VAX Professional/Digital Systems Journal and
> >> > Hitchhikers Guide to VMS were available outside of the US of A!
> >>
> >> Indeed. I have a copy of the HHGTVMS on my shelf.
> >
> >I have a signed copy of HHGTVMS and forgot all about Billy B. until just now. One too many Pan Galatic Gargle Blasters I assume.
>
> ROTFLMFAO!
>
> Just stay away from the Hurricanes or Alabama Slammers or whatever they were
> you were drinking at that DECUS in St. Louis. ;)
>

It was Hurricanes. It started off so innocuously.

I was sitting at a table on the Riverwalk (or whatever it was called) DECUS party with five, or so, of my Symark co-workers, when someone suggested we trade our drink tickets for Hurricanes. I collected the tickets and went to get the drinks.

When I got back everyone had disappeared. I waited a while and then realized I'd been ditched. I could not go out and look for them because I really did not want to be carrying a brace of Hurricanes everywhere I went. I basically started drinking everyone's Hurricanes and it sort of went down hill from there.

[VAXman-]

In article <4476aed0-1765-4a60...@googlegroups.com>, Marty <mku...@gmail.com> writes:
>{...snip...}
>It was Hurricanes. It started off so innocuously. =20
>
>I was sitting at a table on the Riverwalk (or whatever it was called) DECUS=
> party with five, or so, of my Symark co-workers, when someone suggested we=
> trade our drink tickets for Hurricanes. I collected the tickets and went =
>to get the drinks. =20
>
>When I got back everyone had disappeared. I waited a while and then realiz=
>ed I'd been ditched. I could not go out and look for them because I really=
> did not want to be carrying a brace of Hurricanes everywhere I went. I ba=
>sically started drinking everyone's Hurricanes and it sort of went down hil=
>l from there.

Yeah, I do remember that now that you've refreshed my memory.

I sorely miss DECUS events; they were always a great time.

[David Froble]

VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <4476aed0-1765-4a60...@googlegroups.com>, Marty <mku...@gmail.com> writes:
>> {...snip...}
>> It was Hurricanes. It started off so innocuously. =20
>>
>> I was sitting at a table on the Riverwalk (or whatever it was called) DECUS=
>> party with five, or so, of my Symark co-workers, when someone suggested we=
>> trade our drink tickets for Hurricanes. I collected the tickets and went =
>> to get the drinks. =20
>>
>> When I got back everyone had disappeared. I waited a while and then realiz=
>> ed I'd been ditched. I could not go out and look for them because I really=
>> did not want to be carrying a brace of Hurricanes everywhere I went. I ba=
>> sically started drinking everyone's Hurricanes and it sort of went down hil=
>> l from there.
>
> Yeah, I do remember that now that you've refreshed my memory.
>
> I sorely miss DECUS events; they were always a great time.

+1

[Simon Clubley]

On 2016-11-12, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG <VAX...@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
>
> I sorely miss DECUS events; they were always a great time.

Back when DECUS UK ran an annual DECUS conference, they always seemed
to be held on a university campus for some reason; I don't remember
ever finding out why.

Still remember the Exeter campus with what I dubbed "cardiac hill".
Of course, these days I'm a lot more fitter than I was back then. :-)

But yes, I also miss the annual DECUS conferences. However, times
have moved on...

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 11/13/16 7:00 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2016-11-12, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG <VAX...@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
>>
>> I sorely miss DECUS events; they were always a great time.
>
> Back when DECUS UK ran an annual DECUS conference, they always seemed
> to be held on a university campus for some reason; I don't remember
> ever finding out why.
>
> Still remember the Exeter campus with what I dubbed "cardiac hill".
> Of course, these days I'm a lot more fitter than I was back then. :-)
>
> But yes, I also miss the annual DECUS conferences. However, times
> have moved on...
>
> Simon.
>

Back then academia was a major VMS (well all of DEC actually).
How times have changed.

bill

[seasoned_geek]

On Sunday, November 13, 2016 at 6:55:23 PM UTC-6, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> Back then academia was a major VMS (well all of DEC actually).
> How times have changed.
>
> bill

That changed because the hardware, software and maintenance stopped being "free" for colleges and universities. For some it really was free as in beer. For others it was "free" as in they leased time/access to local companies at a rate which paid for everything.

I actually had a client in Aurora IL which was running their entire business on a VAX 11/750 and one RA-80. This was during the twilight days of GQ Bob's rape-pillage-plunder. The entire system was written in VAX BASIC. The company bought the 750 because it matched the local college machine. The head of the program at the college had his senior students writing various modules of the custom system for a class. This way they could use the college machine to develop and test then he could install the software compiled from source at the business site. The company even hired some of the students.

That model started to fail spectacularly when idiots started trying to force business systems onto worthless PC platforms.

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/3/16 9:11 AM, seasoned_geek wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2016 at 6:55:23 PM UTC-6, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>
>> Back then academia was a major VMS (well all of DEC actually).
>> How times have changed.
>>
>> bill
>
> That changed because the hardware, software and maintenance stopped being "free" for colleges and
> universities. For some it really was free as in beer. For others it was "free" as in they leased
> time/access to local companies at a rate which paid for everything.

That was true. CSLG (was that the right name?) made academic use
virtually cost free. But it was tied to paying for administrative
use. Schools still saw it as a win. Be interesting to find out
what really made Universities drop VMS because losing the datacenters
also resulted in losing all the academic exposure.

>
> I actually had a client in Aurora IL which was running their entire business on a VAX 11/750 and
> one RA-80.

How is that surprising? Anybody here know what Highlights, the kids
magazine, is? Shortly after coming to the University (28 years ago)
I acquired my first personal PDP-11. It was an 11/24 in a "corporate
cabinet" (anybody remember what that was?) It had 2 RL02s and 4 RA80's.
They did it all from there A/R Payroll, GL, Publishing the whole show.
Those were the days. They did not move to a VAX. They moved to PC's.

> This was during the twilight days of GQ Bob's rape-pillage-plunder. The entire system
> was written in VAX BASIC. The company bought the 750 because it matched the local college machine.
> The head of the program at the college had his senior students writing various modules of the
> custom system for a class. This way they could use the college machine to develop and test then
> he could install the software compiled from source at the business site. The company even hired
> some of the students.
>
> That model started to fail spectacularly when idiots started trying to force business systems
> onto worthless PC platforms.
>

Call them worthless all you want. Companies like Highlights are still
going strong using those "worthless" PC's. And at a fraction of the
cost. Some companies, like IBM, figured out what their mistakes were,
regrouped and moved on. Other companies like DEC completely missed
the boat and the rest is, as they say, history.

bill

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <eag8u3...@mid.individual.net>, Bill Gunshannon

<bill.gu...@gmail.com> writes:

> That was true. CSLG (was that the right name?) made academic use
> virtually cost free. But it was tied to paying for administrative
> use. Schools still saw it as a win. Be interesting to find out
> what really made Universities drop VMS because losing the datacenters
> also resulted in losing all the academic exposure.

I think the main thing was the DEC started telling people that unix was
the future.

> How is that surprising? Anybody here know what Highlights, the kids
> magazine, is?

I used to subscribe.

[Kerry Main]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax...@rbnsn.com] On Behalf

> Of Phillip Helbig undress to reply via Info-vax
> Sent: 03-Dec-16 12:06 PM
> To: info...@rbnsn.com
> Cc: Phillip Helbig undress to reply
> <hel...@asclothestro.multivax.de>
> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] DECUS conferences, was: Re: Is Billy
> Bitsenbytes celebrating today?
>

> In article <eag8u3...@mid.individual.net>, Bill Gunshannon
> <bill.gu...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > That was true. CSLG (was that the right name?) made academic
> use
> > virtually cost free. But it was tied to paying for
administrative
> > use. Schools still saw it as a win. Be interesting to find
out what
> > really made Universities drop VMS because losing the
> datacenters also
> > resulted in losing all the academic exposure.
>
> I think the main thing was the DEC started telling people that
unix
> was the future.
>

Slight correction .. DEC started telling people that UNIX (Tru64
UNIX) AND Windows (NT) was the future.

Keep in mind that large companies are often simply a number of
smaller companies trying to act like one. In DEC's case it was
like someone inflicted with multiple personality syndrome.

Which message you received was usually dependent on what person
or dept in DEC you were talking to.

DEC was not alone with this syndrome. Almost all large companies
today have the same issue .. try telling IBM's AIX or Mainframe
group that Linux or Windows is the future or telling Oracle's
SPARC group X86-64 is the future.

[snip..]

Course, there was also the issue with DEC where the BOD and C
levels started major downsizing (gave up on Alpha, Rdb and many
other products) and slimming down 2 years before it ended in
preparation for the Compaq takeover, but that's another
discussion.

[David Froble]

The future rarely works out the way imagined.

Back in the mid 1970s we were working with terminals, and our thought was,
wouldn't it be nice to have some capability in each terminal. A workstation
(PC) isn't what we had in mind, but it does provide the capability.

What we wanted was to offload some of the screen formatting, and still validate
the data on the "computer". What happened was "client / server" where the
"computer" was relegated to being just a file or database server.

But one thing is clear to me. The PC seems to be exactly the right tool for
some applications. Word Processing and spreadsheets are good examples of this.

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Gunshannon <bill.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 12/3/16 9:11 AM, seasoned_geek wrote:
>> That changed because the hardware, software and maintenance stopped being "free" for colleges and
>> universities. For some it really was free as in beer. For others it was "free" as in they leased
>> time/access to local companies at a rate which paid for everything.
>
>That was true. CSLG (was that the right name?) made academic use
>virtually cost free. But it was tied to paying for administrative
>use. Schools still saw it as a win. Be interesting to find out
>what really made Universities drop VMS because losing the datacenters
>also resulted in losing all the academic exposure.

VMS was very popular with academic computer centers but not really so
popular with researchers. Unix (on DEC hardware) was much more popular
with people who were frequently doing different tasks on the fly and who
found the heavyweight filesystem more of an encumberance than a help.

Universities mostly dropped VMS because they dropped central computing
systems. The whole model went away.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

>> > really made Universities drop VMS because losing the
>> datacenters also
>> > resulted in losing all the academic exposure.
>>
>> I think the main thing was the DEC started telling people that
>unix
>> was the future.
>
>Slight correction .. DEC started telling people that UNIX (Tru64
>UNIX) AND Windows (NT) was the future.

VMS was long gone in the academic world by the time that started happening.
Long, long gone.

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/3/16 2:42 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Bill Gunshannon <bill.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12/3/16 9:11 AM, seasoned_geek wrote:
>>> That changed because the hardware, software and maintenance stopped being "free" for colleges and
>>> universities. For some it really was free as in beer. For others it was "free" as in they leased
>>> time/access to local companies at a rate which paid for everything.
>>
>> That was true. CSLG (was that the right name?) made academic use
>> virtually cost free. But it was tied to paying for administrative
>> use. Schools still saw it as a win. Be interesting to find out
>> what really made Universities drop VMS because losing the datacenters
>> also resulted in losing all the academic exposure.
>

Well, let me address this as someone who spent his last 28 working
years at a University and prior to that either worked at Universities
or sold them computer systems.

> VMS was very popular with academic computer centers

Not as popular as you might think. UniSYS and IBM had very deep
inroads in that market.

> but not really so
> popular with researchers.

When I arrived at the University of Scranton (28 years ago) the data
center was IBM Mainframe and the academic computing was VMS. Even the
CS department's private lab was a MicroVAX running VMS with IBM PS/2's
for remote access. No Unix anywhere to be seen.

> Unix (on DEC hardware) was much more popular
> with people who were frequently doing different tasks on the fly and who
> found the heavyweight filesystem more of an encumberance than a help.

I think at that stage of the game Unix was very big in engineering and
science environments. Other computer users were perfectly happy with
VMS. After all, it was just a tool, not a toy as it was for the geeks.

>
> Universities mostly dropped VMS because they dropped central computing
> systems. The whole model went away.

My University actually went from IBM Mainframe in the data center to VMS
in the data center. And it remained in the data center quite some time
after it left the academic side of the house. I brought Unix to the
University but it never expanded beyond the departments populated with
geeks. The none geek departments went from VMS to PC's and the primary
reason was that was where the applications were.

bill

[roger...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 11:18:06 AM UTC-8, David Froble wrote:
>
> What we wanted was to offload some of the screen formatting, and still validate
> the data on the "computer".

http://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Burroughs_TD_830

first terminal I used
--
roger ivie
roger...@gmail.com

[David Froble]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> really made Universities drop VMS because losing the
>>> datacenters also
>>>> resulted in losing all the academic exposure.
>>> I think the main thing was the DEC started telling people that
>> unix
>>> was the future.
>> Slight correction .. DEC started telling people that UNIX (Tru64
>> UNIX) AND Windows (NT) was the future.
>
> VMS was long gone in the academic world by the time that started happening.
> Long, long gone.
> --scott
>

Might I suggest that there is no "academic world" and that individual
institutions were not all so uniform. Some may have moved to PCs and *ix sooner
than others. But in the end it seems most ended up in similar places.

In an academic environment, it makes some sense for every student to have their
own computer. Each could be doing something different. Nor will their mistakes
affect others.

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/3/16 5:18 PM, David Froble wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>> really made Universities drop VMS because losing the
>>>> datacenters also
>>>>> resulted in losing all the academic exposure.
>>>> I think the main thing was the DEC started telling people that
>>> unix
>>>> was the future.
>>> Slight correction .. DEC started telling people that UNIX (Tru64
>>> UNIX) AND Windows (NT) was the future.
>>
>> VMS was long gone in the academic world by the time that started
>> happening.
>> Long, long gone.
>> --scott
>>
>

Spoken like someone with no experience with the academic world.

> Might I suggest that there is no "academic world"

Actually, there is an "academic world" as compared to the "business
world" when it comes to IT. That's why we have many of the problems
we have in IT today. The "academic world" decided they preferred
driving the bus rather than preparing the riders for their tasks when
they got off. That's why so many people coming out of college today
are so badly prepared to take their place in the "business world".
And why the "business world" is turning more and more to graduates
with diplomas and certificates over degrees. (I am talking strictly
about in the IT Field as that is where my experience lies!)

> and that individual
> institutions were not all so uniform. Some may have moved to PCs and
> *ix sooner than others. But in the end it seems most ended up in
> similar places.
>
> In an academic environment, it makes some sense for every student to
> have their own computer.

Arguable point. Not really true in the old days when the cost of things
liker compilers could dwarf the cost of the base PC. The first school
to have every student with their own PC was The US Military Academy. It
started in the early 80's. Every incoming Cadet was "issued" a Zenith
286 PC. They could do this because tax money was picking up the tab.
Other schools eventually offered discounted PC's but did not require
every student to have one of their own and continued to offer labs and
larger multi-user systems for much of their classwork. Today most
students show up with their own PC's but some facilities still need to
be provided by the academic department. Programming Languages Course:
how many students have Lisp, Prolog, or Smalltalk on their PC. Database
Course: how many students have a real database with SQL support on their
PC's. Real-time Systems Course. I think you can get the idea. What
has been moved from centralized systems to PC's is writing reports and
some real computer work (using virtualization) but, again, using where
I worked for 28 years as an example, while the lab with MS Office and
other general purpose applications are being dismantled t3here are
still going to be servers and all the students will still be taking
courses that require their use. And just one more reason why you won't
see everything move to individual PC's. Accreditation. CSAB requires
the students get experience with multiple disparate systems and OSes.
Too bad VMS stopped being one of them.

> Each could be doing something different.

Why would you think that each can't be doing something different if
they are not on their own computer? What century are you living in?

> Nor
> will their mistakes affect others.

And that is why they have administrators like me around. It was my
job to minimize the effects of those mistakes and to ensure rapid
recovery if it actually happens.

bill

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2016-12-03 20:42, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Bill Gunshannon <bill.gu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12/3/16 9:11 AM, seasoned_geek wrote:
>>> That changed because the hardware, software and maintenance stopped being "free" for colleges and
>>> universities. For some it really was free as in beer. For others it was "free" as in they leased
>>> time/access to local companies at a rate which paid for everything.
>>
>> That was true. CSLG (was that the right name?) made academic use
>> virtually cost free. But it was tied to paying for administrative
>> use. Schools still saw it as a win. Be interesting to find out
>> what really made Universities drop VMS because losing the datacenters
>> also resulted in losing all the academic exposure.
>
> VMS was very popular with academic computer centers but not really so
> popular with researchers. Unix (on DEC hardware) was much more popular
> with people who were frequently doing different tasks on the fly and who
> found the heavyweight filesystem more of an encumberance than a help.

Research was very fond of PDP-10, and DECs very heavyhanded way of
trying to force them from TOPS-20 to VMS did not go down well. That's
when they shifted over to Unix.

> Universities mostly dropped VMS because they dropped central computing
> systems. The whole model went away.

Not that Universities was much of data centers to start with, but yes.
Workstations became very widespread very fast there, meaning any larger
machines were quickly disposed of.

Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[Kerry Main]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax...@rbnsn.com] On Behalf
> Of Johnny Billquist via Info-vax
> Sent: 04-Dec-16 11:14 AM
> To: info...@rbnsn.com
> Cc: Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se>
> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] DECUS conferences, was: Re: Is Billy
> Bitsenbytes celebrating today?
>

Universities were very much the center of the distributed IT
computing paradigm fever that was part of the wild, wild west of
90's and early 2000's.

"Move data and compute closer to the end user" was typically the
big push for depts to do WS's and/or dept level IT strategies.

Now, the term is called "recovering from the 90's". Huge IT
consolidation / rationalization efforts are underway at almost
every med-large Company/University.

Some colleagues and myself did an IT consolidation project for
University of North Carolina (UNCC) in Charlotte, NC (USA) about
10 years ago. To say these various depts fought moving to a
centralized world is a huge understatement, but the fact was they
could no longer afford to have every IT dept working like a
separate company. Some depts were all MAC's (Graphic arts dept
inc servers), some were all Solaris (Eng), some were all Windows
and of course, some had a little of everything.

First step was to cut-off IT DC server/SW funding to all the
depts and force them through a centralized procurement process.

Boy, that was like bringing matches to a gas fight.

:-)