[wishlist] mouse support under mutt...
Alessandro Russo
I am a very happy user of mutt; the only thing I miss
is a sort of mouse support. I know that mouse support has
been removed from mutt long time ago, and that you guys hate
this GUI stuff; but I use mutt with very large vt's and I would
like sometimes to point-and-click to open a message.
On the other hand, I agree that the primary use of mouse if
for cut-and-paste; so my solution would be to *reverse* what links
does: normal mouse activity is for cut-and-paste, while
Shift'ed (holding Shift) mouse activity is point-and-click.
What do you think?
Ciao
Ale
Sven Guckes
> I am a very happy user of mutt; the only thing I miss
> is a sort of mouse support. I know that mouse support has
> been removed from mutt long time ago, and that you guys hate
> this GUI stuff; but I use mutt with very large vt's and I
> would like sometimes to point-and-click to open a message.
well, you can select a message directly by its index number,
jump to the first, last, and middle message of the current
page with one key - and you can also use the search command.
and what's wrong with typing the "return" key then?
> On the other hand, I agree that the primary use of mouse if
> for cut-and-paste; so my solution would be to *reverse* what
> links does: normal mouse activity is for cut-and-paste, while
> Shift'ed (holding Shift) mouse activity is point-and-click.
> What do you think?
the mouse behaviour depends on the window manager and
terminal and not of the applications running within them.
and how would a *remote* mutt change the behaviour
of processes on a *local* terminal? exactly.
anyway, code for mouse support would ask for customization and
therefore add a dozen more options to the code. this is bloat.
so - learn to use the commands which are available.
you'll be much faster than with using the mouse.
Sven [who would not mind an extra line on the screen
for additional help and display of messages]
--
Sven Guckes usenet-sig-mouse-troubles @guckes.net
MOUSE TROUBLES: loose cable, cable too short during movement,
problem with installation of mouse driver on the current system.
no space on table for movement; must remove hands from keyboard.
Alessandro Russo
> * Alessandro Russo <ru...@matapp.unimib.it>:
>
>>I am a very happy user of mutt; the only thing I miss
>>is a sort of mouse support. I know that mouse support has
>>been removed from mutt long time ago, and that you guys hate
>>this GUI stuff; but I use mutt with very large vt's and I
>>would like sometimes to point-and-click to open a message.
>
>
> well, you can select a message directly by its index number,
> jump to the first, last, and middle message of the current
> page with one key - and you can also use the search command.
> and what's wrong with typing the "return" key then?
>
Nothing wrong. I would only like to *add* mouse support,
not substitute the excellent key mapping.
>
>>On the other hand, I agree that the primary use of mouse if
>>for cut-and-paste; so my solution would be to *reverse* what
>>links does: normal mouse activity is for cut-and-paste, while
>>Shift'ed (holding Shift) mouse activity is point-and-click.
>>What do you think?
>
>
> the mouse behaviour depends on the window manager and
> terminal and not of the applications running within them.
> and how would a *remote* mutt change the behaviour
> of processes on a *local* terminal? exactly.
>
I don't know how it works, but if you run links (the text
web browser), you see that when you are in the same xterm
cut-and-paste only works if Shift is pressed.
Hence links in some way changes the behaviour of the mouse.
My suggestion is to implement mouse support in the reversed way,
so that point-and-click works only with Shift pressed: the
default behaviour of Mutt wouldn't change at all.
> anyway, code for mouse support would ask for customization and
> therefore add a dozen more options to the code. this is bloat.
>
I cannot argue on this. I trust you.
> so - learn to use the commands which are available.
> you'll be much faster than with using the mouse.
>
> Sven [who would not mind an extra line on the screen
> for additional help and display of messages]
>
Thanks anyway for your answer.
Alessandro
Alan Connor
>
>
> Thanks anyway for your answer.
>
> Alessandro
>
>
>
>
Gotta agree with Sven on this one. The only thing a mouse is needed for
is some graphical applications. Anywhere else and it's just a waste.
--
Later, Alan C
You can find my email address at the website:
elrav1.html --> ACKNOWLDEGEMENTS/CONTACT (20k or less, plain text)
take control of your mailbox ----- elrav1 ----- http://tinyurl.com/l55a
Thomas Dickey
> I don't know how it works, but if you run links (the text
> web browser), you see that when you are in the same xterm
> cut-and-paste only works if Shift is pressed.
> Hence links in some way changes the behaviour of the mouse.
"links" doesn't have much to do with this behavior - it's done by xterm.
--
Thomas E. Dickey
http://dickey.his.com
ftp://dickey.his.com
Alessandro Russo
> Alessandro Russo <ru...@matapp.unimib.it> wrote:
>
>>I don't know how it works, but if you run links (the text
>>web browser), you see that when you are in the same xterm
>>cut-and-paste only works if Shift is pressed.
>>Hence links in some way changes the behaviour of the mouse.
>
>
> "links" doesn't have much to do with this behavior - it's done by xterm.
>
I have to disagree. links in console (no X) behaves exactly in the same
way.
Tim Hammerquist
> [...] you guys hate this GUI stuff;
I don't "hate this GUI stuff." I have a very nice X display
running fluxbox. It has many xterms open on it. ;)
> On the other hand, I agree that the primary use of mouse if for
> cut-and-paste;
No. Keyboard shortcuts in reasonably robust text-mode programs
(and some crippled ones) can easily render the mouse obsolete wrt
cut-n-paste. As is often said on usenet:
"A mouse is a device used to point
at the xterm you want to type in."
:)
> so my solution would be to *reverse* what links does: normal
> mouse activity is for cut-and-paste, while Shift'ed (holding
> Shift) mouse activity is point-and-click.
>
> What do you think?
I seems that links' behavior isn't shared with two other
well-known text-mode browsers: lynx and w3m. Both of these allow
me to block and copy text without the use of <Shift> or other
keys.
It seems that, with the resistance to built-in mouse support
already present, as well as links' behavior being somewhat unique
among text-mode browsers, that if you want this sort of behavior
in mutt, you may end up having to add it yourself.
Cheers,
Tim Hammerquist
--
It's appositival, if it's there. And it doesn't have to be there.
And it's really obvious that it's there when it's there.
-- Larry Wall in <1997090323...@wall.org>
Andreas Karrer
> * Alessandro Russo <ru...@matapp.unimib.it>:
>> I am a very happy user of mutt; the only thing I miss
>> is a sort of mouse support. I know that mouse support has
>> been removed from mutt long time ago, and that you guys hate
>> this GUI stuff; but I use mutt with very large vt's and I
>> would like sometimes to point-and-click to open a message.
I second that.
> page with one key - and you can also use the search command.
> and what's wrong with typing the "return" key then?
Sometimes my hand is on the keyboard, the I use those; sometimes my
hand is on the mouse and then I use the mouse.
I use slrn for newsreading and mutt for mail. I have configured both
programs to look quit similar. I've redefined some slrn key bindings to
mimick mutt's and some the other way around. Sometimes I find myself
klicking on a mutt message because that's what I do -- sometimes -- in
slrn.
>> On the other hand, I agree that the primary use of mouse if
>> for cut-and-paste; so my solution would be to *reverse* what
>> links does: normal mouse activity is for cut-and-paste, while
>> Shift'ed (holding Shift) mouse activity is point-and-click.
I see no reason why it should be different from the slrn/links way. You
rarely cut from and paste into this sort of programs.
> anyway, code for mouse support would ask for customization and
> therefore add a dozen more options to the code. this is bloat.
I believe slrn manages with two config option and one command line
switch. I agree that this is terminal-dependent, but then again, I use
xterm and almost-xterms 99% of the time. Are there any other termianl
emulators in widespred use?
- Andi
Alan Connor
>
> It seems that, with the resistance to built-in mouse support
> already present, as well as links' behavior being somewhat unique
> among text-mode browsers, that if you want this sort of behavior
> in mutt, you may end up having to add it yourself.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim Hammerquist
Everyone goes on about security, but seem oblivious to the fact that
complex programs are more vulnerable than simple ones. Add more disk storage,
memory,and processor usage to the downside of a needless pointer interface,
and it quite overbalances the upside, IMNSHO :-)
--
Later, Alan C
You can find my email address at the website: contact.html
Thomas Dickey
But your disagreement doesn't count, since you don't know what you're talking
about.
The XFree86 xterm supports ANSI color and VT220 emulation
There's an faq at
http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html
ftp://invisible-island.net/xterm/
Sven Guckes
> Thomas Dickey:
>> Alessandro Russo <ru...@matapp.unimib.it>:
>>> I don't know how it works, but if you run links (the
>>> text web browser), you see that when you are in the
>>> same xterm cut-and-paste only works if Shift is pressed.
>>> Hence links in some way changes the behaviour of the mouse.
>> "links" doesn't have much to do with this behavior - it's done by xterm.
>
> I have to disagree. links in console (no X)
> behaves exactly in the same way.
apples and oranges!
all this mouse stuff on consoles are managed
by gpm - and not by the console itself.
besides, links' config also depends on the
configure switches. so you might as well be
talking about links *without* mouse support.
and even if you do write a mouse interface for mutt -
at least make it compatible with the windows interface
to make the windows whiners shut up. thankyou.
Sven
Sven Guckes
> * Sven Guckes <guc...@math.fu-berlin.de>:
>> anyway, code for mouse support would ask for customization and
>> therefore add a dozen more options to the code. this is bloat.
>
> I believe slrn manages with two config option and one command
> line switch. I agree that this is terminal-dependent, but
> then again, I use xterm and almost-xterms 99% of the time.
who needs a mouse when you have "screen"?
http://www.guckes.net/screen/
http://www.guckes.net/terminals/
Sven
Alan Connor
Ah. Couldn't agree with you more.
But it is damned hypocritical of you to post this considering that you
killfiled me for posting about screen, just a week or so ago.
Alessandro Russo
Thanks to everybody for the interesting discussion.
I have learned that ncurses itself can take care of mouse
events (in xterm and Linux console only), so it shouldn't
be too difficult to add some simple mouse actions to mutt.
See http://dickey.his.com/ncurses/ncurses-intro.html#mouse
for some documentation.
Maybe I'll give it a try.
Ciao
Alessandro
Sven Guckes
> I have learned that ncurses itself can take care of mouse
> events (in xterm and Linux console only), so it shouldn't
> be too difficult to add some simple mouse actions to mutt.
well, good luck making it compatible for the windows version!
let's see which problems this brings to the FAQ:
- X setup and xmodmap
- mouse drivers
- window managers
- mouse option settings
- configuration of drop down menus
- missing documentation for all of this
- shape of buttons and scrollbars
i can see it now:
From: enter your name here <clu...@september.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.mail.mutt
Subject: mouse
when i'm reading a mail mutt shows other mails around it
at the top then clicking on a line in the displayed index
does not have an effect - why? also, clicking on some
quoted text does not hide it, and when i click on an email
address or url does not start a new mail or open my browser.
what am i doing wrong?
and where must i click to reply to the list instead of the sender?
is there a button i can click to extract the pgp key of the sender?
is there a "click recorder" which allows to
automize the clicking of several commands?
and how can i enter my name by clicking?
now i clicked on something and got this message:
zsh: suspended (signal) mutt
#
i clicked on the '#" several times - but
nothing happened. where do i click now?
and when will mutt support my cordless seven button
radio mouse with scroll wheel and blinkenlights add-on?
ps: is there a newsgroup with a faq
or howto about this keyboard thing?
help!!1!
chris louis ULES
[fullquote of some previous unrelated post deleted]
*sigh*
now, a mutt which speaks smtp, includes an addressbook manager,
a display filter with its own script language, its own editor,
a mail filter, something like "cron", a GUI with full mouse support,
showing pictures in-line, rendering HTML, interfacing with databases,
together with a printing tool to print messages as PDF, and with a
scripting language which is compatible with visual basic allowing
for email virii, storing messages in its own format (bark[tm]) -
then it will be named something like "butch" - and once it let loose
the only way to stop it is clicking twenty times onto the "kill" button.
gives a whole new meaning to the word "killer application", doesn't it?
and of course one should charge money for it - a LOT!
Sven [hey - there's an idea for a patent!]
--
Sven Guckes usenet-sig-mouse-troubles @guckes.net
MOUSE TROUBLES: loose cable, cable too short during movement, installation of
mouse driver, no space on table for movement; must remove hands from keyboard.
"A mouse is a device used to select the xterm you want to type in."
Andreas Karrer
> let's see which problems this brings to the FAQ:
> - X setup and xmodmap
> - mouse drivers
> - window managers
[...]
If you don't want to do mouse support, then please say so. That's
a perfectly fine reason.
But don't resort to lame excuses. slrn has some limited mouse
support and works quite well that way, so I figure it's doable. Nobody
asked for scollbars, configurable drop-down menus, or, perish the
thought, VB as a scripting language.
- Andi
Sven Guckes
>
> If you don't want to do mouse support, then
> please say so. That's a perfectly fine reason.
>
> But don't resort to lame excuses.
lame excuse? oh - is this an offer to writing
the code, the documentation, the FAQs, and also for
giving support for mutt newbies in this newsgroup?
if so - then "please say so"! *please* say "yes"!
> slrn has some limited mouse support and works
> quite well that way, so I figure it's doable.
did i say it wasn't "doable"? can you do it?
well, go ahead and do it then! have fun!
> Nobody asked for scollbars, configurable drop-down menus..
.. yet.
Sven [it's definitely time for a fork..]
Peter Karlsson
[snip]
> slrn has some limited mouse support and works quite well that way, so I
> figure it's doable.
[snip]
Menus for Mutt? Sure, check this out,
Eterm + Mutt:
http://eterm.sourceforge.net/pics/ts/shot_mutt.jpg
http://eterm.sourceforge.net/themes/0.9.2/mutt-Eterm-theme.tar.gz
> - Andi
HTH,
Peter
--
My REAL email address is "gijoe (at) mail dot nu"
"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava,
let them go, because man, they're gone."
Sven Guckes
> Menus for Mutt? Sure, check this out,
> Eterm + Mutt:
> http://eterm.sourceforge.net/pics/ts/shot_mutt.jpg
> http://eterm.sourceforge.net/themes/0.9.2/mutt-Eterm-theme.tar.gz
mind you - these are menus for the *terminal*
which simply translate a click to a key press.
so it it more of an add-on GUI for mutt -
or rather, a frontend.
advantage: no code to add to mutt.
disadvantage: may has to be adjusted when the
keybindings for mutt are changed.
Sven
Alessandro Russo
> * Alessandro Russo <ru...@matapp.unimib.it>:
>
>>I have learned that ncurses itself can take care of mouse
>>events (in xterm and Linux console only), so it shouldn't
>>be too difficult to add some simple mouse actions to mutt.
>>.. Maybe I'll give it a try.
>
>
> well, good luck making it compatible for the windows version!
>
> let's see which problems this brings to the FAQ:
Dear Sven,
I understand you that want to be the prima donna of this newsgroup,
but your humor is really pointless here. What I would like to add
to mutt is just a way to jump to a message with a click of the mouse,
and nothing more.
Ciao
Ale
Theo Vermeulen
> [snap]
> I understand you that want to be the prima donna of this newsgroup, but
> your humor is really pointless here. What I would like to add to mutt is
> just a way to jump to a message with a click of the mouse, and nothing
> more.
well: I'm a happy mutt-user. I use a 80486 33MHz most of the time (and a
pentium 75 the rest of the time) I don't have mouse support, everything I
run runs kinda slow (you can imagine) and there have been enough
program-sources that I've hacked just to get some of the bloaded crap out of
there (like rot13 support in slrn, gpg/pgp is ignored by mutt, links does
only what i tell it to, and mplayer can ONLY play mp3's) If mouse support
get's included, I'd have again so much work to do just to run mutt nicely :(
I understand some people like mouse support and stuff (I don't. used slrn
once in fluxbox, and I had loads of troubles just trying to copy an url
*grr*) but please keep it in a patch, so that the ones who'd like to use it,
can use it, and the people who don't want to, don't have to go through too
much trouble
and as a matter of fact, I like sven's humor.
Greetings
Theo Vermeulen
--
Theo Vermeulen
nos...@patat.org
#EOF
Alan Connor
>
>
> Sven Guckes wrote:
>> * Alessandro Russo <ru...@matapp.unimib.it>:
>>
>>>I have learned that ncurses itself can take care of mouse
>>>events (in xterm and Linux console only), so it shouldn't
>>>be too difficult to add some simple mouse actions to mutt.
>>>.. Maybe I'll give it a try.
>>
>>
>> well, good luck making it compatible for the windows version!
>>
>> let's see which problems this brings to the FAQ:
> (et cetera)
>
> Dear Sven,
>
> I understand you that want to be the prima donna of this newsgroup,
> but your humor is really pointless here.
You're too kind...
What I would like to add
> to mutt is just a way to jump to a message with a click of the mouse,
> and nothing more.
>
> Ciao
>
> Ale
>
So you want render yourself incapable of typing (you can't type with one
hand if you are a real typist, which anyone wishing to truly control a
computer must be) by taking your right hand off the keyboard, only to
put it right back on the keyboard to begin typing or entering visible or
not-visible menu selections.
So while you are doing all this, I have opened a quoted copy of the mail
and typed in a response and mailed it to New Zealand.
If it was a short mail requiring a brief answer, the above is not an
exaggeration.
That's utterly pointless and your true motive must be to get your little
mouse foot in the door in order to Windoize Mutt.
BAD idea.
A good idea would be for you to learn how to type. You would never regret
the decision. VI is the best, in my opinion. See comp.editors (a few
weeks ago) for a great thread on learning how to type, and even long articles
filled with great tips and guidelines.
Sven Guckes
> Sven Guckes wrote:
>> * Alessandro Russo <ru...@matapp.unimib.it>:
>>> I have learned that ncurses itself can take care of mouse
>>> events (in xterm and Linux console only), so it shouldn't
>>> be too difficult to add some simple mouse actions to mutt.
>>> .. Maybe I'll give it a try.
>>
>> well, good luck making it compatible for the windows version!
>>
> a message with a click of the mouse, and nothing more.
"nothing more"? sure. and noone would ever
think of selecting commands from any menus..
but do you remember why mouse support was
removed? well, if not then look it up!
and if you think it is trivial to add
then go ahead and do it! don't wait up!
but like i said:
if you realy do it then please make it work with
*all* terminals within *all* window managers
on *both* systems (unix and win32) for *both*
ncurses and slang. and for gpm, of course.
good luck!
whatever your choices about the code -
please make it an *optional* feature.
thanks.
Sven
Alan Connor
Write code?. He wants to make fundamental alterations in an application
in order to avoid a single keystroke and you think he is going to write
code?
I think this fellow should just look for another mail application.
I found Mutt to be too bloated with features I don't need. already have
covered with other utilities, or could accomplish with simple shell scripts,
and now use mailx. (1/10th the size). Sometimes you just have to
find something else instead of trying to change whatever you have.
Peter H. Coffin
> I understand you that want to be the prima donna of this newsgroup,
> but your humor is really pointless here. What I would like to add
> to mutt is just a way to jump to a message with a click of the mouse,
> and nothing more.
So make a patch and send it to the author. Mutt doesn't do that now, so
we cannot provide you with information about how to configure mutt to do
that.
--
96. My door mechanisms will be designed so that blasting the control panel on
the outside seals the door and blasting the control panel on the inside
opens the door, not vice versa.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord
Igor Ivanov
> I found Mutt to be too bloated with features I don't need. already have
> covered with other utilities, or could accomplish with simple shell scripts,
> and now use mailx. (1/10th the size).
Do you decode quoted-printable, base-64 manually?
--
Suicide is the sincerest form of self-criticism. -- Donald Kaul
Alessandro Russo
> ...
>
> but do you remember why mouse support was
> removed? well, if not then look it up!
>
I don't know the story; where can I find it?
Ale
Alan Connor
>
>
> Alan Connor <zzz...@xxx.yyy> wrote:
>> I found Mutt to be too bloated with features I don't need. already have
>> covered with other utilities, or could accomplish with simple shell scripts,
>> and now use mailx. (1/10th the size).
>
> Do you decode quoted-printable, base-64 manually?
>
Right.
So you think that Mutt is necessary to decode mime and uuencode? Mailx
allows you to pipe any mail to any application or script, and I have mimencode
and uuencode....I can write shellscripts.
Having my mail client do these things is just superfluous. A Windoze
feature.
Besides, the majority of my mail is plain text. I don't accept spam.
Even my ISP mails me in plain text at my request.
Sahil Tandon
> I don't know the story; where can I find it?
The Mutt FAQ would be a good place to start. Mouse support was removed
`because it is an ncurses feature and most people compile Mutt with S-Lang'.
--
Sahil Tandon <sa...@despammed.com>
http://people.brandeis.edu/~sahil
Thomas Dickey
> Alessandro Russo wrote:
>> I don't know the story; where can I find it?
> The Mutt FAQ would be a good place to start. Mouse support was removed
> `because it is an ncurses feature and most people compile Mutt with S-Lang'.
that would be interesting to discuss if it were true, but of course it's not.
Alessandro Russo
> Alessandro Russo wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know the story; where can I find it?
>
>
> The Mutt FAQ would be a good place to start. Mouse support was removed
> `because it is an ncurses feature and most people compile Mutt with S-Lang'.
>
I haven't found anything else beyond this faq statement. In the most
ancient mutt sources I have seen (mutt-0.93.1) the mouse support is
already removed.
It looks like an Emacs' AntiNews:
>> For those users who live backwards in time, here is information about
>> downgrading to Emacs version 20. We hope you will enjoy the greater
>> simplicity that results from the absence of many Emacs 21 features.
* People who compiled Mutt with ncurses will not have to fiddle anymore
with mouse settings, cables and buttons: the mouse will simply not
work.
Just kidding.
Ciao
Ale