Problem in retrieving mail on two computers
Th.V.
I have checked the box "Leave mail on server" so that I get the same
mails on the two computers.
Since a recent crash on my office computer, messages which are
downloaded on one computer (either home or office) would not download
on the other computer.
I don't see what is the source of this problem. I did not change any
of the parameters (especially the Leave mail on serve option).
Any idea or suggestion? This would save my life!
Thank you for your assistance.
th.
(Could someone explain the process by which computers "know" which
messages they have to retrieve from the server and which they do not
need to? This might help me to figure out what is going on).
Daniel Jacobson
>
> I am using Eudora 7.1.09 on two computers (office and home).
> I have checked the box "Leave mail on server" so that I get the same
> mails on the two computers.
>
> Since a recent crash on my office computer, messages which are
> downloaded on one computer (either home or office) would not download
> on the other computer.
>
> I don't see what is the source of this problem. I did not change any
> of the parameters (especially the Leave mail on serve option).
>
> Any idea or suggestion? This would save my life!
> Thank you for your assistance.
You *may* have a corrupted LMOS.DAT file?
Try:
1. Exit Eudora
2. Delete the LMOS.DAT file in the *Eudora* directory
(Last/Leave Mail On Server Data file
3. Delete the LMOS.TMP file in the *Eudora* directory if it exists
4. Restart Eudora, it automatically rebuilds the above mentioned files.
Warning: If you are leaving mail on the server, it will cause ALL
messages to be downloaded again, but you should be OK after that.
> (Could someone explain the process by which computers "know" which
> messages they have to retrieve from the server and which they do not
> need to? This might help me to figure out what is going on).
Eudora keeps track of what has been downloaded in the LMOS.DAT file.
--
Over and Out
Daniel Jacobson
John H Meyers
> I am using Eudora 7.1.09 on two computers (office and home).
> I have checked the box "Leave mail on server" so that I get the same
> mails on the two computers.
> Since a recent crash on my office computer, messages which are
> downloaded on one computer (either home or office) would not download
> on the other computer.
Have you used any other computer or web service to fetch mail meanwhile?
> I don't see what is the source of this problem. I did not change
> any of the parameters (especially the Leave mail on serve option).
Check them again. Crashes may corrupt things.
You can see what is really left on your POP server (or what isn't)
by using either ISP "webmail" or a web application which actually
directly queries any POP server, such as:
http://mail2web.com/cgi-bin/login.asp?lid=0&il=0
> Could someone explain the process by which computers "know"
> which messages they have to retrieve from the server
When Eudora knows that it is leaving some messages on a POP server,
without asking the server to delete them, it remembers the list
of previously downloaded messages in a file named "lmos.dat"
During subsequent POP sessions with the same server,
the list of currently available server messages
is compared with the list saved last time,
and only new messages are downloaded.
The "lmos.dat" files (and some backups, with additional
extensions ".001" etc.) are saved only in the "spool"
subdirectory of the main mail "Data" folder
(whose clickable path appears in "Help" | "About Eudora"),
plus any subdirectories of "spool"
(each named "personality" has a corresponding subdirectory,
and its own independent "lmos.dat" file and backups).
If you delete any current "lmos.dat" file,
all available messages from the corresponding server
will be downloaded during the next POP session,
whether or not they were previously downloaded.
When you specify "Leave mail on server,"
you should also set a time limit,
so that messages are not left to accumulate forever
on a POP server, which could then become "over quota,"
as well as every POP session taking ever longer
to transmit the entire list of all accumulated messages
and to match each one against all those previously downloaded.
Things are different if you are downloading messages from Gmail using POP,
because Gmail is designed to keep your mail indefinitely, archived
for web access, rather than to get rid of it as soon as possible,
which is the aim of other, traditional POP servers.
Normally, Gmail ignores "delete from server" requests by POP clients,
but at the same time reports new mail only to the first POP client
which subsequently connects and fully downloads it;
this could result in what you are describing, for example.
To have Gmail act more like an ordinary POP server,
you can change your Eudora "user name" to "recent:user...@gmail.com"
per http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=47948
Also http://email.about.com/od/gmailtips/qt/et_recent_mode.htm
One thing to remember: Just like a Post Office box for which
more than one person has a key, all keyholders must cooperate
to share the mail -- if even one keyholder takes the mail away,
forgetting about the others, then the others will never see that mail.
--
John H Meyers
This question has also been posted on eudorabb.qualcomm.com,
where additional responses may be found:
http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=14002
--
Th.V.
Thanks a lot for your help and info, John.
I am not sure I was fully clear. My problem is not that I cannot
download mails from my server. But that mails which are downloaded on
one computer (say home) would not download on my office computer
(although mails are still on the server, what I can see through my
server webmail).
In other terms, the Eudora on my home computer and the Eudora on my
office computer operate as a single program (whereas they used to work
independently so that I could download the same mails on each of the
two computers). It looks like the lmos file on my home computer and
the one on my office computer "synchronize".
Anyway, I am going to delete the lmos files, which seems to be the
most obvious solution.
Should you have any other suggestion, please let me know.
Thank you again for your help.
Th.
> you can change your Eudora "user name" to "recent:usern...@gmail.com"
> perhttp://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=47948
> Alsohttp://email.about.com/od/gmailtips/qt/et_recent_mode.htm
John H Meyers
> I am not sure I was fully clear. My problem is not that I cannot
> download mails from my server. But that mails which are downloaded on
> one computer (say home) would not download on my office computer
> (although mails are still on the server, what I can see through my
> server webmail).
You were perfectly clear, and that's what I understood.
See whether "mail2web.com" (which actually queries the POP server)
agrees with what they say is "still on server"
> In other terms, the Eudora on my home computer and the Eudora on my
> office computer operate as a single program (whereas they used to work
> independently so that I could download the same mails on each of the
> two computers). It looks like the lmos file on my home computer and
> the one on my office computer "synchronize".
Possibly a new phenomenon of Physics,
and a breakthrough in Quantum computing :)
> Anyway, I am going to delete the lmos files,
> which seems to be the most obvious solution.
Good idea.
Why do you leave three months' mail on the POP server?
How large are those LMOS files?
Too much mail left on server may strain both server and client,
which were not designed with the thought of so many thousands
of messages to list, transmit across the network,
and match up again during every "check for new mail."
You said that a crash had immediately preceded this problem,
which suggests that it caused some file corruption, somewhere
(even the server should be checked).
Whose server is it?
--
Th.V.
Why do you leave three months' mail on the POP server?
When I travel or I am abroad, this allows me to access my mail from
anywhere and continue conversations, some of them were started several
weeks before, or retrieve attached documents relating to projects
going on several weeks.
> How large are those LMOS files?
Currently 256 octets. There is also a lmo608.tmp. .Not sure about what
it is.
>
> Too much mail left on server may strain both server and client,
> which were not designed with the thought of so many thousands
> of messages to list, transmit across the network,
> and match up again during every "check for new mail."
Do you think that lmos files on my two computers might "synchronize"
through the server?
> Whose server is it?
This is my university's server. I guess it is designed to handle
thousands of messages.
I'll keep you posted about any new development. Thanks again.
Th.
John H Meyers
>> How large are those LMOS files?
> Currently 256 octets.
Is that 256 bytes? Impossibly too small for 3 months' mail,
and likely too small for even a handful of messages.
> There is also a lmo608.tmp -- Not sure about what it is.
What modification date/time? Left over from crash?
Delete it, as Daniel Jacobson suggested.
I would also delete any ridiculously small lmos.dat file,
which could at best represent only a few messages,
whose re-downloading would be of no consequence.
> Do you think that lmos files on my two computers might "synchronize"
> through the server?
No. Besides the fact that POP protocol offers no way
for any client to communicate with any other client
(all information is pulled from the server by the client,
and nothing can be sent back to the server by the client),
Eudora's lmos.dat files are specific to Eudora,
and servers have no clue about any client's internal data files.
The entire POP protocol is rather simple,
and the following commands are almost all of it:
http://sunnyoasis.com/services/emailviatelnet.html
Virtually all servers support one more command (UIDL),
which supplants LIST and makes for accurate identification
of messages left on server with those already downloaded,
using unique message IDs which should be found in the lmos.dat files.
The following concisely explains UIDL, and how it is used by email clients
to know exactly which server messages do not need [re]downloading:
http://www.emailarchitect.net/eagetmail/sdk/html/object_uidl.htm
As you may surmise, "leave mail on server" simply advises a client
(Eudora) not to order the server to delete (DELE) messages
after downloading them (RETR), which otherwise is the expected action.
The POP server is basically completely passive, however,
and does only what the client orders it to do,
so when a client "forgets" to send a delete (DELE) command,
or deliberately decides not to delete,
or even when any POP session aborts
(which should reverse all pending deletions,
according to the POP protocol specs)
then messages remain on the POP server,
and it's entirely the client's responsibility
to figure out how to manage to know which messages
were previously downloaded, vs. which are actually "new"
> This is my university's server.
> I guess it is designed to handle thousands of messages.
The problem is not in how many messages it can store,
but in how much extra work is done, by both client and server,
when not deleting them after they are downloaded by a client.
If you leave thousands of messages on any server,
then every "check for new mail" is a completely new session,
obliging the client to demand a new complete list of messages
(with unique IDs) from the server -- this takes a while
to transmit, and then every _single_ unique ID now on the server
must be compared, by the client, against _every_ previously downloaded ID
being remembered by the client. The number of comparisons required
is proportional to the _square_ of the number of saved message IDs
(note that the square of 1000 is one _million_, the square of 3300
is ten_million. etc), and the client is likely to retain both lists
(server's new list and its own saved list) in memory all the while.
One more thing happens at the server end -- for servers like ours,
which retain all saved messages in a single file, much as Eudora
retains all messages within one mailbox in a single file,
the server must copy that entire file _twice_ for every session
(once at start of session, again at end) -- people whose mailboxes
are huge are the ones most likely to get mangled during
any mishap, such as a server crash, or restart, or even
a firewall restart, which kills sessions already underway.
Some servers do not interlock their files against "parallel" sessions,
which sometimes causes interference between any such overlapping sessions.
>> Why do you leave three months' mail on the POP server?
> When I travel or I am abroad, this allows me to access my mail from
> anywhere and continue conversations, some of them were started several
> weeks before, or retrieve attached documents relating to projects
> going on several weeks.
I would invest in a (free) Gmail account, and use it to pick up
all the university POP mail (even better, have the university
automatically forward copies of all mail to the Gmail account,
which is exactly what I do myself), then use the Gmail account
while traveling -- or at any time, from any computer,
which is a great improvement over almost any kind of ISP "webmail"
(the latter usually can only peek into newly arriving POP mail,
and those which work by actually opening a POP session with the POP server
cause all the same work as when any other client connects to the POP server).
This foray into the mechanics was a diversion, however,
from finding the cause of the inability to share messages.
If just one client has corrupted files, this can not explain
why the other client has the same issue.
Cleaning up corrupted lmos.dat and temporary files
should help at least one client.
I personally would not believe that any mail is really being left
on the POP server unless I could verify that independently,
using an entirely external "inspector," such as is provided
by mail2web.com or free.myemail.com or similar application.
Any slight oversight in any client (or something going on
within the server itself) could easily result
in the server being emptied of all past mail,
which would immediately explain everything.
--
Han
gmail account as intermediary. Works great!
One alternative that has not yet been suggested is to copy all email from
the desktop to a directory on a memory stick/flashdrive, then setting the
laptop to read email mailboxes on the stick. That way you can "take it
with you".
I do what you guys do, read multiple email accounts on multiple computers -
home desktop, work desktop, and laptop, and I have not had any problems
with mail downloads anywhere. All servers are always set to leave mail on
server, but (kicker) I try to keep the POP mail servers as clean as
possible. Whenever I felt the need for taking my home or work mail on the
laptop, I just copied the mailboxes toa subdirectory on the laptop.
Available, but out of the way.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Th.V.
did not change the situation.
But I may have found the source of the problem.
The trouble with Eudora happened just after I installed a program
called Syncplicty ( http://www.syncplicity.com/ ) which synchronizes
selected files between my computers.
Although I set Syncplicty parameters to synchonize only Word files, I
think it might synchronize the lmos.dat files as well.
What do you think?
Sorry to bother you with my problem. An thank you again for your
assistance (I am learning a lot from your replies).
Th.
John H Meyers
> I may have found the source of the problem.
It's always a good idea to think about what we just did,
right before a "poltergeist" blew in :)
> The trouble with Eudora happened just after I installed a program
> called Syncplicty ( http://www.syncplicity.com/ )
> which synchronizes selected files between my computers.
Using a server which is contacted by both computers.
> Although I set Syncplicity parameters to synchonize only Word files,
> I think it might synchronize the lmos.dat files as well.
> What do you think?
It should be easy to "catch it in the act,"
by noting whether the files were different to begin with,
then mysteriously "leap" through a wormhole between computers :)
Why, then, does it not synchronize your entire Eudora mail folder,
and save you the trouble of downloading mail separately to each computer?
By the way, history seems to have long forgotten that Eudora itself
contains a feature called ESP (Eudora Sharing Protocol),
which automatically synchronizes files (in a particular folder)
via email, between any group of people using Eudora:
http://www.eudora.com/email/features/esp.html
http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/tutorials/esp/win.html
This was apparently too far ahead of its time, however,
as I have yet to know of anyone who actually used it.
Congratulations on solving the problem :)
--
John H Meyers
> One alternative that has not yet been suggested is to copy all email
> from the desktop to a directory on a memory stick/flashdrive,
> then setting the laptop to read email mailboxes on the stick.
> That way you can "take it with you".
Another great idea!
If flash drives annoyingly get different "drive letters"
when plugged in at different times and places,
one can always start Eudora by simply dragging
the main mail "Data" folder to "Eudora.exe"
(or to any shortcut for "Eudora.exe" that _isn't_ modified
to add a specific mail folder path to its command line).
And then, speaking of "synchronizing" (folder trees, in this case),
here's another commercial product which I use every day
http://www.goodsync.com/
http://www.goodsync.com/faq.html
This works locally, or over a network, FTP, sFTP, WebDAV,
or to Windows Mobile Phone or Pocket PC.
"The free version of GoodSync is unlimited for 30 days.
After 30 days the free version allows up to 3 jobs and 100 files
to be routinely backed up or synchronized"
No ongoing payments, as required to use server-based systems.
--