Re: how to use Ajax
Ian Collins
> Hi all,
> Im working in javascript, I want to use Ajax in javcascript,
> Can u tel me how to use ajax in javascript, whether i have to include
> any code as like to include *css or *.js file, what are all the
> benefit of it?
>
> Thank U
>
I'm not sure who U is, but google can certainly help.
Search, read and come back with specific questions, the subject is too
broad.
--
Ian Collins.
peterm...@gmail.com
balakrish...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> Im working in javascript, I want to use Ajax in javcascript,
> Can u tel me how to use ajax in javascript, whether i have to include
> any code as like to include *css or *.js file, what are all the
> benefit of it?
>
> Thank U
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX
If you are using AJAX you will likely include a .js file in your html
document.
also see the yahoo ui connection library
Peter
Erwin Moller
> Hi all,
> Im working in javascript, I want to use Ajax in javcascript,
> Can u tel me how to use ajax in javascript, whether i have to include
> any code as like to include *css or *.js file, what are all the
> benefit of it?
>
> Thank U
start here:
http://www.w3schools.com/ajax/default.asp
Basic Ajax usage is actually suprisingly simple.
It boild down to:
1) A function that will return a XMLHTTPObject (differs from browser to
browser. A handy routine is published in the above URL)
2) Use this object to retrieve some content from somewhere.
(In most cases this will be a script on the server that does something
usefull, like querying a database). So you must be able to write PHP or ASP
or whatever your serversideskill are.)
3) Place the content returned by the XMLHTTPObject in some container via
javascript, often a div or a span (can it be anything else?).
That's about it.
In the good ols days before this XMLHTTPObject programmers had to use all
kind of tricks, like hidden frames, to communicate with the server without
reloading the whole page. Now life is easier.
Enjoy.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
balakrish...@gmail.com
Matt Kruse
> Im working in javascript, I want to use Ajax
How do you know that you want to use Ajax if you don't know what it is or
what it does?
--
Matt Kruse
http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com
http://www.AjaxToolbox.com
Jim Ley
<newsg...@mattkruse.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Im working in javascript, I want to use Ajax
>
>How do you know that you want to use Ajax if you don't know what it is or
>what it does?
'cos it's a CV box to tick...
Jim.
Hywel Jenkins
> Hi all,
> Im working in javascript, I want to use Ajax in javcascript,
Why? As you don't seem to understand the fundamental basics, or even
know what Ajax is (apart from a new buzz-word for a seven-year old
technology), I wonder why you want to use it. I suspect there are other
things you should learn first.
--
Hywel
http://kibo.org.uk/
Dr John Stockton
Apr 2006 12:26:06 remote, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Jim Ley
<j...@jibbering.com> posted :
>
>Jim.
ISTM that the FAQ has not been posted recently.
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 ©
<URL:http://www.jibbering.com/faq/> JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang.javascript
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-index.htm> jscr maths, dates, sources.
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
Jim Ley
<j...@merlyn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>JRS: In article <444f66c7...@news.individual.net>, dated Wed, 26
>Apr 2006 12:26:06 remote, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Jim Ley
><j...@jibbering.com> posted :
>>
>>Jim.
>
>ISTM that the FAQ has not been posted recently.
Rats, looking at it, I no longer have ability to post to the regular
news server I was using, I could use my news.individual.net account
but that needs me a new posting machine that can do the
authentication.
If anyone's got a perl or python or ... something script to do the
posting to a news server with authentication it would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Jim.
VK
Jim Ley wrote:
> If anyone's got a perl or python or ... something script to do the
> posting to a news server with authentication it would be appreciated.
You could take my StarGates
<http://www.geocities.com/schools_ring/stargates/>
I could add some minumum interface on it and adjust for posting.
ogj nhguragvsvpngvba vf hfhnyyl (ohg abg nyjnlf) abg arrqrq vs cbfgvat
qverpgyl sebz freire gb freire bire trg be cbfg. fnl sebz gur byq apfn
zbfnvp bar pbhyq cbfg/ernq gb nal arjf freire (vs crbcyr jbhyqa'g or fb
ynml gb frnepu bhg :-). aagc vf n arjre nqqba bire gur napvrag zvfrel.
Jim Ley
>
>Jim Ley wrote:
>> If anyone's got a perl or python or ... something script to do the
>> posting to a news server with authentication it would be appreciated.
>
>You could take my StarGates
><http://www.geocities.com/schools_ring/stargates/>
>
>I could add some minumum interface on it and adjust for posting.
eh? I'm not sure how an HTTP proxy can do anything to help NNTP
posting, or what a minimum interface might be for a perl script that
posts an nntp server from my web-server...
Jim.
VK
Jim Ley wrote:
> I'm not sure how an HTTP proxy can do anything to help NNTP
> posting, or what a minimum interface might be for a perl script that
> posts an nntp server from my web-server...
And I'm not sure why the whole problem is treated as a Problem :-)
After all it's not a nation wide bulk posting with 5 millions spams per
day :-) Just simple twice per week post in one newsgroup.
If we do it KISS style (Keep It Simple, Stupid) that would be a small
LWP based Perl script running on CRON job.
On the wake up time
1) it creates virtual browser (Firefox of course, but can be Opera also
;-)
2) grabs the current content from jibbering.com/faq
3) extract the header links (FAQ titles)
4) creates a message with these links
5) POST it to Google News
5a) if Google News usage is not suitable for ideological reasons :-)
one can use LWP:Protocol:NNTP
This way the interface would be as simple as textfield pairs CRON time
> URI to grab plus admin account (login/password check).
This way you also can update the FAQ pages any time w/o worring about
poster update.
Jim Ley
>5) POST it to Google News
Why post it to google news?
>5a) if Google News usage is not suitable for ideological reasons :-)
>one can use LWP:Protocol:NNTP
Yes, that's what we've done for years... as a cron job, which I've not
touched since, however the script does not support authenticating to
nntp servers, therefore, I need to organise a new script or a new nntp
server.
>This way the interface would be as simple as textfield pairs CRON time
>> URI to grab plus admin account (login/password check).
>
>This way you also can update the FAQ pages any time w/o worring about
>poster update.
Again, I don't really understand what the point of this interface is,
the script has never changed in all the updates either, the process
scripts from the XML version creates the plain text versions of the
FAQ which are auto-posted by the cron job, no interface is needed.
If you've got a perl script that posts to NNTP taking the headers from
one file, and the body from another then it would be great!
Cheers,
Jim.
VK
Jim Ley wrote:
> On 27 Apr 2006 13:28:31 -0700, "VK" <school...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >5) POST it to Google News
>
> Why post it to google news?
Because it is the simpliest option, unless you're expecting Google to
go under soon. This way it is equal to the regular form submission. The
way the Usenet works as you remember - it doesn't matter what news
server do you originally post to, it will be propagated to all other
news servers.
> Yes, that's what we've done for years... as a cron job, which I've not
> touched since
But you still have access to CRON settings on your server? And CHMOD
too? Because script cannot set it by itself if run unprivileged.
The rest - I think it's better to give you a sample script to test. If
I get some time on week-end I'll give you a demo URL. If you find a
better solution or lesser nasty subcontractor ;-) just let me know in
this thread.
Jim Ley
>Jim Ley wrote:
>> On 27 Apr 2006 13:28:31 -0700, "VK" <school...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >5) POST it to Google News
>>
>> Why post it to google news?
>
>Because it is the simpliest option,
I don't agree with that, automating HTML when there's a proper
protocol available is just a maintenance nightmare.
>> Yes, that's what we've done for years... as a cron job, which I've not
>> touched since
>
>But you still have access to CRON settings on your server? And CHMOD
>too? Because script cannot set it by itself if run unprivileged.
Of course, let me repeat for the umpteenth time, the problem is purely
that the NNTP perl script being used does not support NNTP
authentication, and I no longer have access from the server to any
non-authentication required NNTP servers, that's it. Of course I
control everything else on the machine.
>The rest - I think it's better to give you a sample script to test. If
>I get some time on week-end I'll give you a demo URL
Well a perl-script would be best, rather than a URL, this isn't
something that should have anything to do with HTTP.
but cheers,
Jim.
VK
Jim Ley wrote:
> Of course, let me repeat for the umpteenth time, the problem is purely
> that the NNTP perl script being used does not support NNTP
> authentication
...
use Net::NNTP;
$req = Net::NNTP->new('news.foo.bar');
$reg->authinfo($myLogin, $myPassword);
$reg->group('comp.lang.javascript');
if ($reg->postok()) {
$reg->post(@message);
}
else {
# report error
}
$req->quit();
...
This is if you have purely technical troubles (Net module comes with
the default Perl installation).
But:
> and I no longer have access from the server to any
> non-authentication required NNTP servers, that's it.
Then it is not a technical problem. Of course news servers do not let
you *post* without account, except of few corporate servers with a
narrow list of specific newsgroups.
comp.lang.javascript is not available for posting over NNTP without
account. So either you have to find a provider letting you to use their
news daemon over Net:NTTP, or go with the posting over HTTP (Google and
such), or do it manually yourselve twice a week, or just drop this
business all together. I guess I spelled all opportunities (?).
If you want to go with the first option, just find an appropriate
provider and use the code I posted (@message is array of lines in your
post, I presume the content generating block itself doesn't need to be
changed).
If you want to go with the second option, I may come up with something
on the next week.
Options 3 and 4 are out of my domain :-)
Jim Ley
>> and I no longer have access from the server to any
>> non-authentication required NNTP servers, that's it.
>
>Then it is not a technical problem. Of course news servers do not let
>you *post* without account, except of few corporate servers with a
>narrow list of specific newsgroups.
Erm, the FAQ has been posted for years without an account, security
has always been based on IP address, ie only local (to the ISP) have
been able to post.
>If you want to go with the first option, just find an appropriate
>provider and use the code I posted (@message is array of lines in your
>post, I presume the content generating block itself doesn't need to be
>changed).
Feel free to create it, reading in 2 files etc. it would be very
helpful to have a tested working script that loads from the local
filesystem the 2 files - the headers and the body of the post, then
posts it - it's easy to write, it's just I do not currently have the
time.
Jim.
Dr John Stockton
Apr 2006 17:50:35 remote, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Jim Ley
<j...@jibbering.com> posted :
>Rats, looking at it, I no longer have ability to post to the regular
>news server I was using, I could use my news.individual.net account
>but that needs me a new posting machine that can do the
>authentication.
>
>If anyone's got a perl or python or ... something script to do the
>posting to a news server with authentication it would be appreciated.
This might be a good occasion to change the Friday FAQ posting from
being a duplicate of the Monday one to being a copy of a plain-text Web
page (for more rapid updates, a sort of Stop Press; or for draft
improvements).
Dr John Stockton
, dated Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:26:38 remote, seen in
news:comp.lang.javascript, VK <school...@yahoo.com> posted :
>
>Jim Ley wrote:
>> On 27 Apr 2006 13:28:31 -0700, "VK" <school...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >5) POST it to Google News
>>
>> Why post it to google news?
>
>Because it is the simpliest option, unless you're expecting Google to
>go under soon. This way it is equal to the regular form submission. The
>way the Usenet works as you remember - it doesn't matter what news
>server do you originally post to, it will be propagated to all other
>news servers.
Better to post it to a standards-respecting system. One cannot rely on
such as Google to receive and post an article unmodified, even if they
do so at present. Also, it's getting tempting to kill-rule anything
posted /via/ Google.
I'd suggest asking the UK Committee, who are well-known to be standards-
respecting and collectively technically adept, what server they suggest.
It can do no harm.
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. yyww merlyn demon co uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME ©
Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> : about usage of News.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
VK
Dr John Stockton wrote:
> Better to post it to a standards-respecting system. One cannot rely on
> such as Google to receive and post an article unmodified, even if they
> do so at present. Also, it's getting tempting to kill-rule anything
> posted /via/ Google.
That would be a highly unwise decision because say comp.lang.javascript
currently has 3460 active Gougle Groups subscribers, so this way you
would cut off approx. 30% of the monthly newsgroup traffic; and the
next year (if nothing awful happens with Google and the trend speed
remains the same) it will be 70%-90%. A bit of too high price to pay to
not see VK anymore IMHO :-)
<http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.scripting.jscript/about>
and btw:
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/about>
> I'd suggest asking the UK Committee, who are well-known to be standards-
> respecting and collectively technically adept, what server they suggest.
> It can do no harm.
Write right to the Queen! :-)
I guess one is still missing the root of the problem: and it is the
same as a software locked after the trial period expired. Is it a
problem? Yep. How to solve it? Pay damn money for a full version. If
one is not willing to pay, uninstall it and forget it, or... you know
what people do sometimes ;-)
<http://www.teranews.com/>
one time setup fee of $3.95
<http://www.giganews.com/>
$7.99/mo
No one is willing to pay? One needs to ask then in
<google.public.support.general> if making a program using Google Groups
access is not a reverse engineering or an interface stealing. I thought
I saw some mention of it, but I was wrong - so an additional official
clarification is needed.
P.S. Usenet by its nature is a spammers' dream. Just post *one* ads in
each group and it will be automatically replicated across all connected
servers. So Usenet in its old implementation can be considered as a
network of computers permanently infected by ILoveYou-like virus. Sorry
for a rude analogy, but it shows why account-less posting in Usenet is
blocked everywhere.
P.P.S. But it doesn't eliminate the possibility to find some caring
soul in some organisation to get an account on their news server. I
don't have any.
Randy Webb
> Dr John Stockton wrote:
>> Better to post it to a standards-respecting system. One cannot rely on
>> such as Google to receive and post an article unmodified, even if they
>> do so at present. Also, it's getting tempting to kill-rule anything
>> posted /via/ Google.
>
> That would be a highly unwise decision because say comp.lang.javascript
> currently has 3460 active Gougle Groups subscribers, so this way you
> would cut off approx. 30% of the monthly newsgroup traffic; and the
> next year (if nothing awful happens with Google and the trend speed
> remains the same) it will be 70%-90%. A bit of too high price to pay to
> not see VK anymore IMHO :-)
3460 in c.l.j or in all Usenet Groups?
But, I tend to agree with John, the people who post/answer from Google
Groups tend to follow the "I am using Google, so I don't know what the
F@#$K you are talking about, it shows what I am replying to up above,
why should I quote it?" mentality.
And, to date, I have not seen anyone that answers from Google Groups
that the answers they give tend to be ones you would want to keep track
of or read/follow the advice. Witness: electrician. (I will refrain from
using you in that example).
> <http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.scripting.jscript/about>
> and btw:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/about>
>
>
>> I'd suggest asking the UK Committee, who are well-known to be standards-
>> respecting and collectively technically adept, what server they suggest.
>> It can do no harm.
>
> Write right to the Queen! :-)
Amen! JRS does tend to think that anything UK is golden and anything
non-UK is junk.
> I guess one is still missing the root of the problem: and it is the
> same as a software locked after the trial period expired.
Your analogies, however wrong, amuse me at times. The problems are not
the same.
> Is it a problem? Yep. How to solve it? Pay damn money for a full version.
> If one is not willing to pay, uninstall it and forget it, or... you know
> what people do sometimes ;-)
>
> <http://www.teranews.com/>
> one time setup fee of $3.95
>
> <http://www.giganews.com/>
> $7.99/mo
And if neither of those support automated posting then it wouldn't do a
lot of good. But that still isn't the problem.
> No one is willing to pay? One needs to ask then in
> <google.public.support.general> if making a program using Google Groups
> access is not a reverse engineering or an interface stealing. I thought
> I saw some mention of it, but I was wrong - so an additional official
> clarification is needed.
>
> P.S. Usenet by its nature is a spammers' dream. Just post *one* ads in
> each group and it will be automatically replicated across all connected
> servers. So Usenet in its old implementation can be considered as a
> network of computers permanently infected by ILoveYou-like virus. Sorry
> for a rude analogy, but it shows why account-less posting in Usenet is
> blocked everywhere.
And it is also why you see a trend towards (and not away from) address
munging in Usenet postings.
> P.P.S. But it doesn't eliminate the possibility to find some caring
> soul in some organisation to get an account on their news server. I
> don't have any.
I have one and am willing to share it if it would work with what Jim has
now. But, it requires authentication and that is the problem Jim has now
is that his software won't do the authentication part.
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
Jim Ley
<HikksNo...@aol.com> wrote:
>I have one and am willing to share it if it would work with what Jim has
>now. But, it requires authentication and that is the problem Jim has now
>is that his software won't do the authentication part.
I have servers, as you can see I post from a server that requires a
log in and can continue too... all I need to do is update and test the
perlscript that has been posting the faq, unfortunately it wasn't
using the NET::NNTP so it wasn't a simple fix, so I'll probably just
write a new one.
Cheers,
Jim.
VK
Randy Webb wrote:
> VK said the following on 4/29/2006 9:13 AM:
> > currently has 3460 active Gougle Groups subscribers,
>
In c.l.j *only* - I gave some links to look at - against 200 last
summer and ~1000 last December.
> But, I tend to agree with John, the people who post/answer from Google
> Groups tend to follow the "I am using Google, so I don't know what the
> F@#$K you are talking about, it shows what I am replying to up above,
> why should I quote it?" mentality.
Well, actually Google has a rather nice summary article at
<http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12348&topic=250>
anyone can reach from the main Google News page. It seems to me that
it's a demonization of Google to think that people using Google will
skip on reading netiquette by their very nature :-), but news arents'
users will read all recommendations first. In either case it's a
question of good will and free time.
> And, to date, I have not seen anyone that answers from Google Groups
> that the answers they give tend to be ones you would want to keep track
> of or read/follow the advice. Witness: electrician. (I will refrain from
> using you in that example).
It's good to know that there is at least someone to overpass VK's
evelness :-)
> I have one and am willing to share it if it would work with what Jim has
> now. But, it requires authentication and that is the problem Jim has now
> is that his software won't do the authentication part.
The authentication part was already posted in this thread (look
around). I can add the meat on the sceleton. Just keep in your mind
that a regular news gateway from ISP doesn't do any good. I have one
myself - but these gateways do not have NNTP login/pass authentication.
You are authenticated automatically and seemlessly by the fact of using
your ISP connection (so it goes within the global authentication you
make on Internet connect).
If you have a real account to give up: thus login/pass to connect by
NNTP protocol to another server, - then you have coffee and I do sugar
:-)
Jim Ley
>If you have a real account to give up: thus login/pass to connect by
>NNTP protocol to another server, - then you have coffee and I do sugar
>:-)
how many times do I have to repeat this? I have a news-server... I'm
posting from it now...
Jim.
VK
> I have a news-server... I'm posting from it now...
And I say again that if you have a log/pass for NNTP server then the
previously posted code is sufficient.
Just in case I got in troubles to get a temporary authen NNTP account
and the code below works just fine. It is a self contained fully
functional program, you only need to insert the content generating
block, uncomment $req->post and use whatever @message you have.
The details are regular:
Whatch single/double quotes if editing (in Perl single quote literals
are not resolved as opposed to double quoted). To not get in troubles
with fancy login/password like @foo$bar and such use single quotes on
them.
check out that shebang (#!/usr/bin/perl) corresponds to your Perl
installation (there are three possible pathes and I cannot guess the
right one, edit if needed).
upload as ASCII
chmod 755
notify CRON (I guess you have a web interface for it)
#!/usr/bin/perl
use Net::NNTP;
# Insert current block generating
# Usenet-compliant message
# in the form of array of strings
# further referred as @message
$req = Net::NNTP->new('your.news.server') or die($!);
$req->authinfo('yourLogin', 'yourPassword');
$req->group('comp.lang.javascript');
if ($req->postok()) {
#$req->post(@message);
print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n";
print "Connected. Ready to post";
}
else {
print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n";
print "Oops...";
}
$req->quit();
exit(0);
Jim Ley
>Jim Ley wrote:
>> I have a news-server... I'm posting from it now...
>
>And I say again that if you have a log/pass for NNTP server then the
>previously posted code is sufficient.
Yes, and then there's all the rest, there's time to write and test the
code, I don't have it currently, which is why I appealed for help.
Like I said, it needs to read local files, not change a script
everytime it changes there are two files a header and a body, the
previous script took 3 parameters the group, a file of the headers and
the file of the body, I would expect this one to take 5... It's a
simple script we all know that!
Jim.
VK
OK, then give me the old script for testing - just remove any sensitive
info like local path, logins etc.
It is not nice to force me to write from the scratch when maybe just
few lines need to be adjusted.
Send it to school...@yahoo.com with title "comp.lang.javascript" so
spam blocks will let you through.
Jim Ley
>OK, then give me the old script for testing - just remove any sensitive
>info like local path, logins etc.
>
>It is not nice to force me to write from the scratch when maybe just
>few lines need to be adjusted.
The old script didn't use NET::NNTP like I said, so I doubt it's any
use at all, I'll dig it out and send it though.
Jim.
Randy Webb
> Randy Webb wrote:
>> VK said the following on 4/29/2006 9:13 AM:
>>> That would be a highly unwise decision because say comp.lang.javascript
>>> currently has 3460 active Gougle Groups subscribers,
>> 3460 in c.l.j or in all Usenet Groups?
>
> In c.l.j *only* - I gave some links to look at - against 200 last
> summer and ~1000 last December.
You read the chart wrong. That is not "Google Groups subscribers", it
looks more like the "Total number of posts to comp.lang.javascript". The
difference in huge.
>> But, I tend to agree with John, the people who post/answer from Google
>> Groups tend to follow the "I am using Google, so I don't know what the
>> F@#$K you are talking about, it shows what I am replying to up above,
>> why should I quote it?" mentality.
>
> Well, actually Google has a rather nice summary article at
> <http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12348&topic=250>
> anyone can reach from the main Google News page. It seems to me that
> it's a demonization of Google to think that people using Google will
> skip on reading netiquette by their very nature :-), but news arents'
> users will read all recommendations first. In either case it's a
> question of good will and free time.
I don't see that trend here. Most people that use a decent newsreader
and have to go through the steps to set it up are more likely to be
introduced to an FAQ on how to set it up and thus more likely to find
out if a group has an FAQ. The users of Google Groups don't seem to do
that because there is nothing to setup. Fill out a form, start posting.
At a minimum, if Google Groups had a section somewhere in that process
that explained Usenet, and FAQ's, then it might not be so bad.
Now, a kudos to many of the Google posters. Once they have been beat in
the head about 25 or so times about reading the FAQ, how to post
properly, and Usenet in general, they tend to learn.
>> And, to date, I have not seen anyone that answers from Google Groups
>> that the answers they give tend to be ones you would want to keep track
>> of or read/follow the advice. Witness: electrician. (I will refrain from
>> using you in that example).
>
> It's good to know that there is at least someone to overpass VK's
> evelness :-)
>> I have one and am willing to share it if it would work with what Jim has
>> now. But, it requires authentication and that is the problem Jim has now
>> is that his software won't do the authentication part.
>
> The authentication part was already posted in this thread (look
> around). I can add the meat on the sceleton. Just keep in your mind
> that a regular news gateway from ISP doesn't do any good. I have one
> myself - but these gateways do not have NNTP login/pass authentication.
> You are authenticated automatically and seemlessly by the fact of using
> your ISP connection (so it goes within the global authentication you
> make on Internet connect).
Mine doesn't, it requires authentication.
> If you have a real account to give up: thus login/pass to connect by
> NNTP protocol to another server, - then you have coffee and I do sugar
> :-)
I have coffee, sugar and cream but the sad part is that I don't drink
coffee on a regular basis. Mountain Dew all the way! :)
mallen
Randy Webb wrote:
> Now, a kudos to many of the Google posters. Once they have been beat in
> the head about 25 or so times about reading the FAQ, how to post
> properly, and Usenet in general, they tend to learn.
There are plenty of folks using google groups, due to its ease of
access, who have been posting and using Usenet for a very long time.
What some of you are suggesting is the equivalent of me killfiling any
thing that comes out of aol.com :). I would miss out on some great info
If so. Google is just the latest group to make it easier to get access
to things.
Randy Webb
> Randy Webb wrote:
>> Now, a kudos to many of the Google posters. Once they have been beat in
>> the head about 25 or so times about reading the FAQ, how to post
>> properly, and Usenet in general, they tend to learn.
>
> There are plenty of folks using google groups, due to its ease of
> access, who have been posting and using Usenet for a very long time.
Very true.
> What some of you are suggesting is the equivalent of me killfiling any
> thing that comes out of aol.com :).
Touché. Point made.
That comment actually got me to thinking about it harder and I think it
is the new users to Google that give it the reputation it has. The only
time people realize someone is posting from Google is when they screw
up. Same goes for OE users also. You only pay attention to the bad and
ignore the good.
<quietly going off to remove my foot from my mouth>
Sidenote: I don't post from AOL anymore (they dropped Usenet access) but
I stopped using it before they dropped it. My email address is left as
an AOL address because of the simplicity of AOL Email controls for me. I
have it set to only allow AOL members to email me so that I don't get
spammed from Usenet. I posted using AOL for a very long time and the
only problem with it was the HTML rendering. If someone posted code, I
saw the HTML rendered instead of the code. I had to wait for the code to
show up in Google, copy/paste it to AOL, and then reply. Lot of time and
patience.
A sure indication of a Google user is typically no quoting. A sure
indication in the archives of an AOL user (a long time ago) was the
addition of a period in the code:
<.a href.....>
So that AOL wouldn't render it (It is still used on AOL MB's to this day
for that reason).
> I would miss out on some great info If so. Google is just the latest
> group to make it easier to get access to things.
Very very true. And a kudos to Google that other sites haven't done and
that is not to claim it as a "Message Board"/"Forum" but to offer it as
what it is - Usenet.
VK
I never got any script?
Here is the NNTP auth capable script for c.l.j. - I'll keep this link
for 48hrs for anyone interested. Please not that it is not a free news
poster for everyone: it is exclusive royalty-free fees-free program for
c.l.j. coordinators. All rights are transfered on the condition to not
transfer them further.
<http://www.geocities.com/schools_ring/archives/newsrobot.zip>
As it's not a commercial project, I took freedom to not make the
regular "beauties" - no db driven logs (plain text files) and no
makfile (have to install manually).
Outside of /cgi-bin/ create a new folder and name it any way you want
(here called /newsrobot/ )
/newsrobot/log/ upload files 0.txt ... 6.txt and CHMOD 777 all of them
/newsrobot/data/ place any files you'll be using for message bodies.
Open clj.cgi in plain text editor and fill in NTTP access info:
$NNTP_SERVER = 'news.server';
$NNTP_LOGIN = 'YourLogin';
$NNTP_PASSWD = 'YourPassword';
Set up the @SCHEDULE list. Each record corresponds to a day of the week
starting with Sunday:
WeekDay => 'Sunday',
Subject => '',
URI => [''],
Weeker => 'No'
WeekDay - do not change, it's for navigation convenience
Subject - message subject
URI - list of files composing the message.
Empty array [''] means that there is no job for this day
['body.txt'] - body.txt will be used
['body1.txt', 'body2.txt'] - indicated files fill be glued together in
order they listed.
Weeker - if set to "Yes" (case-sensitive) the message will not be
archived and removed in one week after posting - only on servers
respecting X-No-Archive header.
You do care of the message body only - RFC 850 rev. 1030 compliant (I
hope) header is generated automatically.
If your news server operates on some weird port instead of 119, you can
add it as second argument to the constructor (XXX):
Net::NNTP->new($NNTP_SERVER, XXX)
Othervise port 119 presumed
Save changes, upload ASCII to /cgi-bin/ and CHMOD 755
Set CRON to call clj.cgi twice a day or more often. The script keeps
track of jobs to do and the results of recent postings. So if it fails
to post on the first wake up, it will try again second time - but it
will not post twice. So if your NNTP server is down often, you can set
CRON even for hourly calls.
More questions post here.
VK
VK wrote:
> Here is the NNTP auth capable script for c.l.j.
> More questions post here.
Oh eh - and check the shebang (#!/usr/bin/perl) By Merphy law on your
server it may be #!/usr/sbin/perl or #!/usr/lib/sbin/perl or something
even more weird.
VK
VK wrote:
> VK wrote:
> > Here is the NNTP auth capable script for c.l.j.
> <snip>
> > More questions post here.
Oops... Change:
$NNTP->group('alt.test');
to:
$NNTP->group('comp.lang.javascript');
debug leftovers... can be more...
Richard Cornford
> Dr John Stockton wrote:
>> Better to post it to a standards-respecting system. One
>> cannot rely on such as Google to receive and post an article
>> unmodified, even if they do so at present. Also, it's getting
>> tempting to kill-rule anything posted /via/ Google.
>
> That would be a highly unwise decision because say
> comp.lang.javascript currently has 3460 active Gougle Groups
> subscribers,
What evidence do you have that these subscribers are 'active'. Google do
not appear to timeout their subscriptions so all you could learn from a
total number of 'subscribers' is that that is the total number of people
who have subscribed and have never unsubscribed. Any individual
subscriber may have only ever used google groups once in order to appear
in those statistics (assuming that they used the subscribe to group link
during that visit). And that is assuming that you trust Google to add
the numbers up correctly, which doesn't seem to be a good idea given the
evidence that they are not capable of handling statistics effectively.
> so this way you would cut off approx. 30% of the monthly
> newsgroup traffic; and the next year (if nothing awful
> happens with Google and the trend speed remains the same)
> it will be 70%-90%.
If this were an issue you would expect to see total traffic on the
newsgroup rising, while in reality it has been pretty steady for the
last 5 years or so.
> A bit of too high price to pay to not see VK anymore IMHO :-)
The problem with kill-filing people is that it then becomes difficult to
mitigate the harm that they may do by giving bad advice and making false
statements.
>
<http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.scripting.jscript/about
>
> and btw:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/about>
<snip>
Those pages act to undermine Google's credibility as a source of
statistics. For example, there is a lit of "All time top posters" on the
'about comp.lang.javascript' page, supposedly stating the number of
posts made by the identified individuals. However, if you click on any
of the links in that list you get sent to the 'profile' for that
individual, also listing the number of posts that they have supposedly
made to the group. These two numbers are purported to be the same
statistic, but they do not correspond, and they differ in different
directions for different individuals.
When a system generates two different numbers for the same statistic you
can be certain that at lest one of those numbers is in error, and have
to suspect that both of them are. You certainly should not trust a
source of statistics that is not even consistent in its output.
(And that is without even observing that Google's 'profile' for me
asserts a total number of posts that is about 500 items short of my
newsreader's record of my posts to the group (which does not include any
posts I have made while away from home) and that their quoted total of
3664 should put me towards the middle of the "All time top posters"
list, in which I do not feature at all.)
Richard.
Randy Webb
> VK wrote:
>> Dr John Stockton wrote:
>>> Better to post it to a standards-respecting system. One
>>> cannot rely on such as Google to receive and post an article
>>> unmodified, even if they do so at present. Also, it's getting
>>> tempting to kill-rule anything posted /via/ Google.
>> That would be a highly unwise decision because say
>> comp.lang.javascript currently has 3460 active Gougle Groups
>> subscribers,
>
> What evidence do you have that these subscribers are 'active'.
The evidence is quite to the contrary. That chart isn't "Active Google
Subscribers", it looks more like a "Total number of posts to group XXX".
Unless of course Google claims me as an "Active Google Subscriber" since
I post to Usenet and Google archives it.
> Google do not appear to timeout their subscriptions so all you could
> learn from a total number of 'subscribers' is that that is the total
> number of people who have subscribed and have never unsubscribed.
Looking at the numbers, its not a timeout on subscriptions but rather
just a summary of total posts to the group. If it were Google not timing
out subscriptions, the number would grow continuously and it doesn't.
Richard Cornford
<snip>
> Looking at the numbers, its not a timeout on subscriptions
<snip>
If you look at the "related groups" links they do list numbers of
subscribers, and if you go to the 'about' page for a related group that
lists c.l.js as one if its "related groups" there is a number of
subscribers there. Still, if the source of statistics is unreliable the
statistics themselves are unreliable, so the numbers don't matter much.
Richard.
VK
I guess I need to explain it, as a "Google Groups expert" :-)
Google Groups allows to *read* Usenet newsgroups to anyone without
creating Google account, so this stats is not available without server
logs access. But in order to *post* to any group one has to create a
Google account and to subscribe first to a group she's willing to post.
This way this number equals to the amount of users ever posted in
c.l.j. using Google Groups (but not equal to the amount of posts, as
many post two times and more). btw since my previous post the number
changed from 3460 to 3535.
Anyone is welcome to use and *promote* any posting media she likes, but
to run some kind of "hate campain" like one I noticed in some
signatures in ciwas is plain stupid IMHO. If you don't like the world
as it became then go to FIDO and lock all doors and windows behind.
No one is using Google Groups instead of NTTP servers just in order to
"destroy our traditional values" :-) Simply Usenet access is not any
more a part of standard Internet access package. It came to the end
somewhere in 2000/2001 if I remember properly. One need now either
harass the provider ( doesn't help every time) or pay extra for a 3rd
party Usenet provider like Giganews.
Free NTTP servers *with post allowed* are extinguished species, I guess
Jim Lee just discovered it on his own experience.
Randy Webb
> Randy Webb wrote:
> <snip>
>> Looking at the numbers, its not a timeout on subscriptions
>> but rather just a summary of total posts to the group. ...
> <snip>
>
> If you look at the "related groups" links they do list numbers of
> subscribers, and if you go to the 'about' page for a related group that
> lists c.l.js as one if its "related groups" there is a number of
> subscribers there.
Ahh, I knew it would be Google style and not make any logical sense.
Randy Webb
> Richard Cornford wrote:
>> Randy Webb wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Looking at the numbers, its not a timeout on subscriptions
>>> but rather just a summary of total posts to the group. ...
>> <snip>
>>
>> If you look at the "related groups" links they do list numbers of
>> subscribers, and if you go to the 'about' page for a related group that
>> lists c.l.js as one if its "related groups" there is a number of
>> subscribers there. Still, if the source of statistics is unreliable the
>> statistics themselves are unreliable, so the numbers don't matter much.
>
> I guess I need to explain it, as a "Google Groups expert" :-)
You, a "Google Groups expert"? I suppose you are an expert at DTD's
also, eh?
> Google Groups allows to *read* Usenet newsgroups to anyone without
> creating Google account, so this stats is not available without server
> logs access.
Server log access won't tell you anything about how many people read
Google Groups. Not even close. You either get a useless hit count to
Google Groups, or, you get an IP count. Neither of which means anything
useful.
> But in order to *post* to any group one has to create a
> Google account and to subscribe first to a group she's willing to post.
You forgot part of that. I do not have to subscribe to Google Groups to
post to any "Group". I have to subscribe to Google Groups if I want to
post to any Group *using Google Groups to post with*.
> This way this number equals to the amount of users ever posted in
> c.l.j. using Google Groups (but not equal to the amount of posts, as
> many post two times and more). btw since my previous post the number
> changed from 3460 to 3535.
So they don't remove non-active members from that list?
That's tantamount to Firefox announcing that 14 kazillion people use
Firefox because it has been downloaded that many times. Now, if they
removed people that haven't posted in, say, 6 months, from that number,
it might (but I doubt it) actually have some merit to the number.
> Anyone is welcome to use and *promote* any posting media she likes, but
> to run some kind of "hate campain" like one I noticed in some
> signatures in ciwas is plain stupid IMHO. If you don't like the world
> as it became then go to FIDO and lock all doors and windows behind.
I haven't seen any hate sigs in ciwas but I haven't hunted them. The
problem isn't Google Groups itself, it is Google Groups default quoting
style. It promotes not quoting. All it would take is a simple redefining
of the reply link so that it does the same thing as the Options>Reply
link - problem solved. That is a flaw in Google Groups and nothing more.
> No one is using Google Groups instead of NTTP servers just in order to
> "destroy our traditional values" :-) Simply Usenet access is not any
> more a part of standard Internet access package.
It's not? You should check into Comcast's Internet Package. They do not
offer one that doesn't have free Usenet, you just have to ask is all.
> It came to the end somewhere in 2000/2001 if I remember properly. One
> need now either harass the provider ( doesn't help every time) or pay
> extra for a 3rd> party Usenet provider like Giganews.
I disagree, see above. But, I am also aware that Comcast is not world
wide so that option is not available to everybody. But to say the option
doesn't exist at all is plain wrong.
> Free NTTP servers *with post allowed* are extinguished species, I guess
> Jim Lee just discovered it on his own experience.
I assume you mean Jim Ley and not Jim Lee?
VK
Randy Webb wrote:
> You, a "Google Groups expert"? I suppose you are an expert at DTD's
> also, eh?
That was a smile there... Read "as a regular Google Groups user".
> I have to subscribe to Google Groups if I want to
> post to any Group *using Google Groups to post with*.
Right. So the amount of "subscribers" equals to the amount of
individual accounts used to post in c.l.j using the Google Groups.
> > This way this number equals to the amount of users ever posted in
> > c.l.j. using Google Groups (but not equal to the amount of posts, as
> > many post two times and more). btw since my previous post the number
> > changed from 3460 to 3535.
>
> So they don't remove non-active members from that list?
> That's tantamount to Firefox announcing that 14 kazillion people use
> Firefox because it has been downloaded that many times. Now, if they
> removed people that haven't posted in, say, 6 months, from that number,
> it might (but I doubt it) actually have some merit to the number.
The numbers game is difficult especially if all stats mechanics is not
disclosed by provider (Google). Say they expire all threads older that
1 month (one can still search and read, but cannot add new posts in
them). I don't know if the discussed numbers are attached to it or if
they are "keep forever". Pointless to speculate on it, but at least 75
posters (==readers) have been added in the last few days (3535-3460).
> > It came to the end somewhere in 2000/2001 if I remember properly. One
> > need now either harass the provider ( doesn't help every time) or pay
> > extra for a 3rd> party Usenet provider like Giganews.
>
> I disagree, see above. But, I am also aware that Comcast is not world
> wide so that option is not available to everybody. But to say the option
> doesn't exist at all is plain wrong.
They do - but they have a strong tendention to appear and disappear on
rather chaotic basis. While making the news robot for c.l.j. (OT: I
appreciate the received feedback) the only one really working free NNTP
server with post allowed was at
<http://www.cheap56k.com/free-newsgroups-usenet.php> lesser some
university servers you have to contact in person and explain the reason
of your needs.
> > Free NTTP servers *with post allowed* are extinguished species, I guess
> > Jim Lee just discovered it on his own experience.
>
> I assume you mean Jim Ley and not Jim Lee?
Sorry: /Jim Ley/
Randy Webb
> Randy Webb wrote:
>> You, a "Google Groups expert"? I suppose you are an expert at DTD's
>> also, eh?
>
> That was a smile there... Read "as a regular Google Groups user".
>
>> I have to subscribe to Google Groups if I want to
>> post to any Group *using Google Groups to post with*.
>
> Right. So the amount of "subscribers" equals to the amount of
> individual accounts used to post in c.l.j using the Google Groups.
>
>
>>> This way this number equals to the amount of users ever posted in
>>> c.l.j. using Google Groups (but not equal to the amount of posts, as
>>> many post two times and more). btw since my previous post the number
>>> changed from 3460 to 3535.
>> So they don't remove non-active members from that list?
>> That's tantamount to Firefox announcing that 14 kazillion people use
>> Firefox because it has been downloaded that many times. Now, if they
>> removed people that haven't posted in, say, 6 months, from that number,
>> it might (but I doubt it) actually have some merit to the number.
>
> The numbers game is difficult especially if all stats mechanics is not
> disclosed by provider (Google).
It isn't that difficult. They aren't expiring old/non-active members or
the number wouldn't keep going up. You would see some fluctuation or
even an flattening out. And reasoning that out is simple. If c.l.j had
3535 active contributors from Google Groups, then you would see *at
least* that many posts to this group, and that is not even counting
replies. Reply to each, you have 7000 posts. Reply to the replies and it
grows quickly. Not many threads here have 1 or 2 replies so you could
expect to see a number of posts to approach 12-15000 easily in a month.
Number of posts to c.l.j last month? 3139. So, how do you have 3535
active members with fewer posts than that? That alone *proves* the
numbers aren't worth the paper it would take to print it.
But, we all know that exactly and precisely ~97.2342% of statistics are
made up on the spot.