GWT vs JSF vs ZK vs REST+JS
carmelo
I'm planning to develop a web based ERP, which should be full-ajax and
with desktop-like UI. It will be a data-entry & data-report
application. For developing it I'm considering all technologies.
- GWT: I saw that with GWT Designer you could create cool UIs, but
databinding seems to be too complex
- JSF: Netbeans no longer supports the visual web editor
- ZK: supports databinding in a relatively easy way, and has got an
Eclipse-based visual editor
- Some people talk about REST + javascript as a winning choice
I'd like to have your opinion about what could be the right choice.
Thank you very much in advance!
Lew
> I'm planning to develop a web based ERP, which should be full-ajax [sic] and
> with desktop-like UI. It will be a data-entry& data-report
> application. For developing it I'm considering all technologies.
>
> - GWT: I saw that with GWT Designer you could create cool UIs, but
> databinding seems to be too complex
>
> - JSF: Netbeans no longer supports the visual web editor
> - ZK: supports databinding in a relatively easy way, and has got an
> Eclipse-based visual editor
>
>
> I'd like to have your opinion about what could be the right choice.
Take a look at Echo2, also.
--
Lew
jlp
Arne Vajhøj
> I'm planning to develop a web based ERP, which should be full-ajax and
> application. For developing it I'm considering all technologies.
>
> - GWT: I saw that with GWT Designer you could create cool UIs, but
> databinding seems to be too complex
>
> - JSF: Netbeans no longer supports the visual web editor
You do not want to use WYSIWYG for creating JSF web apps
anyway.
> - ZK: supports databinding in a relatively easy way, and has got an
> Eclipse-based visual editor
>
> - Some people talk about REST + javascript as a winning choice
>
> I'd like to have your opinion about what could be the right choice.
I would say that:
- if you want a traditional web app with AJAX functionality and
you know Java, then JSF with Richfaces is a very good choice
- if you want to write an app that run client side in the browser
then you should pick GWT or Flex
- if you have plenty of resources with standard skills
the jQuery possible with something on top of it plus
REST services could be a good solution
(I don't know ZK)
Arne
Steve Sobol
Arne Vajhøj <ar...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> You do not want to use WYSIWYG for creating JSF web apps
> anyway.
I disagree. I use WYSIWYG to develop RichFaces apps.
--
Steve Sobol <sjs...@justthe.net>
AnAnAsbAnAnAshAkAr
I am currently looking at vaadin (vaadin.com) which is a GWT based UI
framework which supports some layout similarly to Swing and AWT. In my
opinion it is also not a real dirt hack to do the databinding with it.
greeZ Mike
carmelo
wrote:
Mike, would you suggest Vaadin instead of Ext-GWT or other GWT
frameworks?
The GWT Designer is powerful for creating UIs, but it lacks
databinding. Is it easily possible to bind data to components with
Vaadin?
David Segall
>On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:50:19 -0500
>Arne Vajhøj <ar...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>
>> You do not want to use WYSIWYG for creating JSF web apps
>> anyway.
>
>
>I disagree. I use WYSIWYG to develop RichFaces apps.
Which WYSIWYG Editor do you use?
Steve Sobol
David Segall <da...@address.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >I disagree. I use WYSIWYG to develop RichFaces apps.
>
> Which WYSIWYG Editor do you use?
JBoss Tools for Eclipse
--
Steve Sobol <sjs...@justthe.net>
carmelo
a web-based full-ajax ERP with desktop-like UI?
Alessio Stalla
> What do you suggest for developing a web-based full-ajax ERP with desktop-like UI?
Swing. Seriously.
Cheers,
Alessio
carmelo
>
> Swing. Seriously.
>
> Cheers,
> Alessio
Thank you for your answer Alessio. How would you achieve this with
Swing??
Ciao e grazie!
Tom Anderson
>>> What do you suggest for developing a web-based full-ajax ERP with desktop-like UI?
>>
>> Swing. Seriously.
>
> Thank you for your answer Alessio. How would you achieve this with
> Swing??
Java Web Start:
http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
tom
--
AVOID PS3 LIKE MCVITIE'S PLAGUE HOBNOBS -- UKR
carmelo
I don't like JWS, I used it on a project and was really really slow on
remote db connections...
Arne Vajhøj
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010, carmelo wrote:
>
>>>> What do you suggest for developing a web-based full-ajax ERP with
>>>> desktop-like UI?
>>>
>>> Swing. Seriously.
>>
>> Thank you for your answer Alessio. How would you achieve this with
>> Swing??
>
> Java Web Start:
>
> http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
Or a good old applet.
But unless it is integrated with the web page, then
it is more an app deployed over the web than a web app.
Arne
Arne Vajhøj
Java code running client side connecting to a database
running server side is in most case very problematic from
a security perspective.
Arne
Tom Anderson
So don't make remote DB connections. Are you planning to make remote DB
connections from your GWT pages? No, you make web-friendly HTTP
connections to the app server, and have the app server talk to the
database. The same applies to apps written with any technology, including
JWS.
Now, i admit that this is somewhere where JWS may actually lag behind the
compile-to-javascript frameworks; GWT has some quite carefully thought
out, although still hairy, client-server databinding stuff. I don't know
of anything in pure java which specifically addresses that need - you have
to partition things with RMI or whatever by hand.
tom
--
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity -- Hanlon's Razor
Tom Anderson
I'd say the same about GWT and friends. A GWT screen is not a web page; a
GWT app is not a web site. Both are done with HTML and javascript, but
there is more to being a website than the implementation technology - GWT
is not hypertext, so it's not a web page.
Arne Vajhøj
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>> On 25-11-2010 10:13, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010, carmelo wrote:
>>>>>> What do you suggest for developing a web-based full-ajax ERP with
>>>>>> desktop-like UI?
>>>>>
>>>>> Swing. Seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your answer Alessio. How would you achieve this with
>>>> Swing??
>>>
>>> Java Web Start:
>>>
>>> http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
>>
>> Or a good old applet.
>>
>> But unless it is integrated with the web page, then it is more an app
>> deployed over the web than a web app.
>
> I'd say the same about GWT and friends. A GWT screen is not a web page;
> a GWT app is not a web site. Both are done with HTML and javascript, but
> there is more to being a website than the implementation technology -
> GWT is not hypertext, so it's not a web page.
web app = HTML + CSS + JS
Runtime GWT is a web app.
Source code wise it is more similar to applet and Flash/Flex.
Arne
carmelo
REST+JS?
Arne Vajhøj
> For RIAs what do you think could be a fast and stable solution, GWT or
> REST+JS?
My expectation would be that:
- GWT solution will contain slightly fewer bugs due to compiler checks
- you will find more resources with skills in manual JS or a common
JS framework like jQuery than in GWT
Arne
Tom Anderson
> On 25-11-2010 18:52, Tom Anderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>>> On 25-11-2010 10:13, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010, carmelo wrote:
>>>>>>> What do you suggest for developing a web-based full-ajax ERP with
>>>>>>> desktop-like UI?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Swing. Seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your answer Alessio. How would you achieve this with
>>>>> Swing??
>>>>
>>>> Java Web Start:
>>>>
>>>> http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
>>>
>>> Or a good old applet.
>>>
>>> But unless it is integrated with the web page, then it is more an app
>>> deployed over the web than a web app.
>>
>> I'd say the same about GWT and friends. A GWT screen is not a web page;
>> a GWT app is not a web site. Both are done with HTML and javascript, but
>> there is more to being a website than the implementation technology -
>> GWT is not hypertext, so it's not a web page.
>
> web app = HTML + CSS + JS
>
> Runtime GWT is a web app.
If you define it that way, then yes. But i don't see why that's a useful
definition - it doesn't include every kind of app you can deliver over the
web, and it does include a lot of apps which aren't hypertext.
I realise that this definition is popular, even though it isn't useful.
That doesn't seem to be a good reason to use it.
tom
--
China Mieville has shown us how to be a good socialist and a bad science
fiction writer. -- The Times
Lew
[Tom - you need a better character set. Try UTF-8 instead of that old
parochial US-ASCII.]
Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> web app = HTML + CSS + JS
>>
>> Runtime GWT is a web app.
Tom Anderson wrote:
> If you define it that way, then yes. But i don't see why that's a useful
> definition - it doesn't include every kind of app you can deliver over
> the web, and it does include a lot of apps which aren't hypertext.
>
> I realise that this definition is popular, even though it isn't useful.
> That doesn't seem to be a good reason to use it.
Hypertext is not an essential feature of Web apps. That it's an app and that
it is accessed via the Web are all you need.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application>
<http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=Web+app&i=54272,00.asp>
<http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Web%20application>
apparently copied the PC Mag definition.
<http://blogs.msdn.com/b/skelley/archive/2007/06/24/sharepoint-terminology-defined.aspx>
--
Lew
Tom Anderson
> Arne Vajh?j wrote:
> [Tom - you need a better character set. Try UTF-8 instead of that old
> parochial US-ASCII.]
>
> Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>>> web app = HTML + CSS + JS
>>>
>>> Runtime GWT is a web app.
>
> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> If you define it that way, then yes. But i don't see why that's a useful
>> definition - it doesn't include every kind of app you can deliver over
>> the web, and it does include a lot of apps which aren't hypertext.
>>
>> I realise that this definition is popular, even though it isn't useful.
>> That doesn't seem to be a good reason to use it.
>
> Hypertext is not an essential feature of Web apps. That it's an app and that
> it is accessed via the Web are all you need.
Okay, seems reasonable to me. By that definition, applets, Flash, and JWS
are all web apps.
tom
--
Can we fix it? Yes we can!
Lew
>>> If you define it that way, then yes. But i don't see why that's a useful
>>> definition - it doesn't include every kind of app you can deliver over
>>> the web, and it does include a lot of apps which aren't hypertext.
>>>
>>> I realise that this definition is popular, even though it isn't useful.
>>> That doesn't seem to be a good reason to use it.
Lew proposed:
>> Hypertext is not an essential feature of Web apps. That it's an app
>> and that it is accessed via the Web are all you need.
Tom Anderson wrote:
> Okay, seems reasonable to me. By that definition, applets, Flash, and
> JWS are all web apps.
Absolutely, although the application delivered by JWS need not be.
Web services fall under the "Web application" rubric also.
--
Lew
The recent explosion of cloud services means the rubric's cubed.
Tom Anderson
> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>> If you define it that way, then yes. But i don't see why that's a useful
>>>> definition - it doesn't include every kind of app you can deliver over
>>>> the web, and it does include a lot of apps which aren't hypertext.
>>>>
>>>> I realise that this definition is popular, even though it isn't useful.
>>>> That doesn't seem to be a good reason to use it.
>
> Lew proposed:
>>> Hypertext is not an essential feature of Web apps. That it's an app
>>> and that it is accessed via the Web are all you need.
>
> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> Okay, seems reasonable to me. By that definition, applets, Flash, and
>> JWS are all web apps.
>
> Absolutely, although the application delivered by JWS need not be.
As in it could also run standalone? Or something else?
> Web services fall under the "Web application" rubric also.
You reckon? I think of web services as just another kind of RPC (even
REST), and whilst they may well be used by web apps, they aren't web apps
on their own.
tom
--
YOUR MIND IS A NIGHTMARE THAT HAS BEEN EATING YOU: NOW EAT YOUR MIND. --
Kathy Acker, Empire of the Senseless
Lew
>>>> Hypertext is not an essential feature of Web apps. That it's an app
>>>> and that it is accessed via the Web are all you need.
Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> Okay, seems reasonable to me. By that definition, applets, Flash, and
>>> JWS are all web apps.
Lew wrote:
>> Absolutely, although the application delivered by JWS need not be.
Tom Anderson wrote:
> As in it could also run standalone? Or something else?
As in it could run standalone, yes.
Lew wrote:
>> Web services fall under the "Web application" rubric also.
Tom Anderson wrote:
> You reckon? I think of web services as just another kind of RPC (even
> REST), and whilst they may well be used by web apps, they aren't web
> apps on their own.
I should have said more properly, "Applications that use web services fall
under the 'Web application' rubric also."
The point being that such applications may have a Swing interface, or other
non-web-based UI but use web services to support their logic, e.g., for lookups.
--
Lew
Arne Vajhøj
> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> You reckon? I think of web services as just another kind of RPC (even
>> REST), and whilst they may well be used by web apps, they aren't web
>> apps on their own.
>
> I should have said more properly, "Applications that use web services
> fall under the 'Web application' rubric also."
>
> The point being that such applications may have a Swing interface, or
> other non-web-based UI but use web services to support their logic,
> e.g., for lookups.
That is a very unusual definition.
That would make a batch job running on some big iron a web app
just because it makes SOAP/HTTP calls to interact with other
systems.
Arne