The new Google Groups UI is truly bad

[Alex McDonald]

The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently, and it sucketh mightely. It's a pile of steaming uselessness, layered over with more uselessness. I can't get to grips with what must be the stupidest design for threaded group email it's ever been my misfortune to use. I'm going to have to find a decent usenet feed and reader.

Someone at Google should be taken out to the woodshed and soundly thrashed.

Until then...

[Alex McDonald]

On 18/06/2013 21:01:35, Alex McDonald wrote:
> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently, and it sucketh
> mightely. It' s a pile of steaming uselessness, layered over with more
> uselessness. I can 't get to grips with what must be the stupidest

> design for threaded group e mail it's ever been my misfortune to use.
> I'm going to have to find a decen t usenet feed and reader.

>
> Someone at Google should be taken out to the woodshed and soundly
> thrashed.
>
> Until then...
>

Now trying eternal-september and NewsMan Pro. Let's see how I get on with
this one.

[Rod Pemberton]

"Alex McDonald" <bl...@rivadpm.com> wrote in message
news:eebe3f1d-5a95-4ff1...@googlegroups.com...

> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently,
> and it sucketh mightely. It's a pile of steaming uselessness,
> layered over with more uselessness. I can't get to grips with
> what must be the stupidest design for threaded group email
> it's ever been my misfortune to use. I'm going to have to find
> a decent usenet feed and reader.

Oddly, I agree. It sucks. Slow. All the old features are
"hidden". Some stuff is broken, etc.

But, I only use it for missing messages and searching...

> Someone at Google should be taken out to the woodshed and
> soundly thrashed.
>
> Until then...
>

Add the risk of receiving an OT complaint from you on your own
thread (ha!), I'd suggest aioe.org for reading and posting. If
aioe doesn't keep content long enough for your taste, you could
read from textnews.cambrium.nl (no posting) and catch Google
Groups for the occasional missed post.

AIOE policies
http://aioe.org

news://news.aioe.org
news://nntp.aioe.org


Rod Pemberton

[the_gavino_himself]

I agree.

google sucks in general but groups web interface is only non suck one iver found

barf

like yahoo each upgrade stinks more

[rickman]

Or you can do what I and many others did and use a newsreader instead.
I switched to Thunderbird and in spite of its many issues, I find it a
superior tool.

It does make you wonder about just what they were thinking at Google!

--

Rick

[WJ]

I broke your lines for you.

Anyone who knows anything whatsoever about usenet knows that
he must limit the length of his lines.

Since you don't know anything whatsoever about usenet, it
is appropriate for you to be at the mercy of Google.


Some programmers at Google found it necessary to make their jobs
seem important.

So they they "improved" the interface.

Isn't "progress" wonderful?

[Elizabeth D. Rather]

On 6/21/13 9:53 AM, Alex McDonald wrote:

> I tried Thunderbird. The usenet extension doesn't work with the latest
> download; that's a bit of a show stopper. NewsMan so far seems to do what
> I want (although the interface is hideously complex).
>

Current Thunderbird works fine for me. Maybe the trouble is at your news
server?

Cheers,
Elizabeth

--
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

Google isn't interested in User Groups anymore. They have more important issues like PRISM.

[Mark Wills]

I'd like to use a usenet client but I can't do that from work. They're not allowed so I'm stuck with a Web based interface or my mobile phone (which I'm using now). Both Google Web and mobile Web clients suck. Guess I'll be posting less.

[rickman]

On 6/22/2013 8:04 AM, Mark Wills wrote:
> I'd like to use a usenet client but I can't do that from work. They're not allowed so I'm stuck with a Web based interface or my mobile phone (which I'm using now). Both Google Web and mobile Web clients suck. Guess I'll be posting less.

I remember I was in that position some 10 or 12 years ago. I think I
was using Netscape as a newsreader. I know it wasn't a special
newsreader program. I took a regular job and they wouldn't hook me up
with newsgroup coverage. My boss said I could use Google groups which I
didn't know about. It was a significant change but seemed to work ok.
Eventually I got to like it, especially the ability to search which of
course is great.

But then they started changing the interface. First they added ads or
something on the right margin which took up too much space. Someone
came up with a script to run which would remove the third panel. Then
Google made some changes and the script stopped working. An update and
the script worked again. Eventually the guy stopped maintaining the
script and I lived with the third panel issue.

Then Google made changes to the "look and feel" of the pages. It just
didn't seem to work as well. I know we all get used to things and don't
like changes, but this really was an impact. I remember making noises
about using something different for newsgroup access which was the
solution others would offer. Then Google made the big changes over the
last year or so and I finally bailed.

I really don't like Thunderbird much, but it is better than living with
the "tyranny" of Google.

--

Rick

[Steve]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:01:39 -0700 (PDT), Alex McDonald
<bl...@rivadpm.com> wrote:
> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently, and it sucketh

mightely. It'=

> s a pile of steaming uselessness, layered over with more

uselessness. I can=

> 't get to grips with what must be the stupidest design for threaded

group e=

> mail it's ever been my misfortune to use. I'm going to have to find

a decen=

> t usenet feed and reader.


> Someone at Google should be taken out to the woodshed and soundly
thrashed.


> Until then...

He, he, Akex, it's almost like it was designed by monkey's on crack
cocaine, unfortunately.

Old groups may have been ten times too little, but ten tines better
than this.

Stevie.

[Steve]

Thunderbolt has been devalued. After some research I found out that
there new web browser platform allows apps to do various functions
instead. I forget if there was a newsreader, but there is a email
client I think. Turns out Firefox OS is a different beast than I
suspected. Opera had some similar intent like this, but the hoopla
seems to have gone down, I wonder if it is still ongoing.

Gavino also has also finally said something useful I see.

[Michael Morris]

On 6/19/2013 12:51 AM, Alex McDonald wrote:
> Now trying eternal-september and NewsMan Pro. Let's see how I get on with
> this one.
>

Yeah, I just switched to eternal-september myself. I can't seem to get
the encrypted version of news.eternal-september.org to work though. Are
you having that problem?

Virtually,
Michael Morris

[Michael Morris]

On 6/21/2013 2:53 PM, Alex McDonald wrote:
> I tried Thunderbird. The usenet extension doesn't work with the latest
> download; that's a bit of a show stopper. NewsMan so far seems to do what
> I want (although the interface is hideously complex).
>

It's working fine for me (as long as I use the unencrypted newserver),
but it took me a while to realize that I had to press the followup
button instead of the reply button.

Virtually,
Michael Morris

[David Thompson]

I generally use e-s only for backup, and in clear, but on a quick test
with my rather elderly Forte Agent SSL worked. But apparently (this?)
Agent doesn't validate the cert very well (maybe not at all) because
on checking with openssl s_client I see both (honest) news.e-s 563 and
(masquerade) reader443.e-s 443 (try to) handshake with a StartSSL cert
that needs a chain cert but don't include the chain cert.

I found it (CN = StartCom Class 1 Primary Intermediate Server CA,
SKI = eb 42 34 d0 98 b0 ab 9f f4 1b 6b 08 f7 cc 64 2e ef 0e 2c 45,
SHA1 thumb = f6 91 fc 87 ef b3 13 53 54 22 5a 10 e1 27 e9 11 d1 c7 f8
cf) in my recent Firefox, but not my recent IE/Vista, and
(more officiallly) at http://www.startssl.com/certs/ as
sub.class1.server.ca.pem or .crt (der). If your problem looks like a
validation/trust error try putting that chain cert in your truststore
if it's not already there and you can, and depending on your SSL stack
maybe also the StartCom root (or one of them, FF has two!).

HTH. -dt

[jonb...@gmail.com]

I generally use Thunderbird, to read and to post (not this time), and it works fine. There are many problems with Google now. First, you can only post to one group. Sometimes crossposting is reasonable. Even when it isn't, Google shouldn't prevent it. Second, the formatting is horrible. When responding in Thunderbird to a message posted through Google, the text from the prior message doesn't wrap; it flows continually to the right, making it hard to reply in-line. Third, Google has completely abandoned the useful search features in the old format. It used to be fairly easy to find specific messages when searching. Now it's all but impossible. The archives they acquired from Deja-News are now all but dead.

[andrew...@digital.hmrc.gov.uk]

I can't agree more. Google just throw piles and piles of manure out in to the public domain without any consideration being paid to the use-ability of it.

Sure, technically it's probably really good and really clever, but what is the point of doing lots of technically clever stuff that is totally unusable by any normal person.

They've obviously put a lot of work into it, there's loads of configurability in their but I haven't got a clue how to use any of it! WHAT A WATE OF TIME AND MONEY!

[andrew...@digital.hmrc.gov.uk]

Whoops I mean "there" not "their" !!!

[gnuarm.del...@gmail.com]

I agree that Google groups is not a great way to use usenet. But I am tired of dealing with T-bird and Seamonkey (a very early spinoff of T-bird, or Netscape really). T-bird had numerous issues until it finally croaked on my machine whereupon I switched to Seamonkey as a short, then long term alernative. But Seamonkey is also not so great with a lot less support. Then when my Lenovo crap crapped out I gave up installing software I didn't like and started using Google groups. It's really not that bad. I don't need many features. I just need to be able to read and post.

Rick C.

[jzie...@marianapolis.org]

I totally agreeeeee, can't add groups, so if you have a few people in a group you need to add them manually and you can not copy and paste them from a spreadsheet....is this 1980 google?

[Bernd Paysan]

Am Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:05:05 -0700 schrieb jzientek:

> I totally agreeeeee, can't add groups, so if you have a few people in a
> group you need to add them manually and you can not copy and paste them
> from a spreadsheet....is this 1980 google?

1980 Usenet readers were clearly better than that ;-).

I've done some research how to use Usenet, and the last remaining working
Usenet reader on my Linux box is pan, from the Gnome project. Take your
feed from eternal-september.org.

[Bernd Paysan]

Am Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:05:05 -0700 schrieb jzientek:

> I totally agreeeeee, can't add groups, so if you have a few people in a
> group you need to add them manually and you can not copy and paste them
> from a spreadsheet....is this 1980 google?

[Rod Pemberton]

a) Please stop dredging up old Usenet threads via Google Groups.
b) See AIOE.org for free Usenet text groups. Eternal-September has a
history of going down and other problems.
c) See claws-mail Usenet reader for Linux. I've compiled the prior
four versions without any issue for Linux. The most recent
version needed an updated version of libetpan.

http://www.claws-mail.org/


Rod Pemberton
--
Bitcoin is a pump-and-dump scam driven by a perpetual Ponzi scheme.

[sdwj...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 11:01:39 PM UTC-5, Alex McDonald wrote:
> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently, and it sucketh mightely.

Long ago I ran Mosaic on DOS to download a spool of news and emails. Wrote
batch scripts to breakout the mail and feed to a program call THREADS,
non-gui with lots of features. All free and fun. I wonder if it can still
be done. There was a site, Wallnut hill maybe, where many old DOS programs
are archived.
--
me

[Ray Cannon]

Under the settings Icon there is a return to "classic" google groups. You can also put the following flag in your bookmark to bring up the "classic" view automatically:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?oldui=1

I agree it is a terrible interface. With the previous interface you could lock messages to the top such as general information - now that feature is gone. Someone must think it is "prettier". Yuck.

Now the question is how long will Google honor the "classic" mode?

[dxforth]

Google's mistake was keeping the old UI too long. Familiarity
results in attachment which creates unrest.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten,
every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building
has been renamed, every date has been altered." - '1984' Orwell

[john]

In article <23001cae-9a6b-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
w7...@qsl.net says...

The real question is how many people are stupid enough to knock screws in with
a hammer?

A bit off topic though don't you think?


john
=========================
http://johntech.co.uk
=========================

[mofre...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 9:01:39 PM UTC-7, Alex McDonald wrote:
> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently, and it sucketh mightely. It's a pile of steaming uselessness, layered over with more uselessness. I can't get to grips with what must be the stupidest design for threaded group email it's ever been my misfortune to use. I'm going to have to find a decent usenet feed and reader.
>
> Someone at Google should be taken out to the woodshed and soundly thrashed.
>
> Until then...

I agree with you!!! I manage a Google Group with over 1000 subscribers, and the moderating was quick and easy before. Now, with the new interface, it is damned near three times as long to do the same things. And the programmer keeps asking me to confirm my actions, like I was some noob. But it isn't just the time expansion, it is thoughtless programming. A novel thought: Perhaps Google could put out beta versions and let users vote them up or down. If there were not 67 percent up votes, the new idea gets scrapped. The constant tweaking of workable systems is just make work. Every tweak introduces new learning to thousands of users. Now, learning is fine if it makes for greater efficiency, clarity, etc. But change that increases the workload and frustration is change for the sake of change -- make work to keep programmers employed. Stop it Google! Please!!

[Rick C]

I remember in college a professor was honest and showed us how professors were evaluated based on 50 factors, teaching was number 42 on the ordered list. In the same way, after dealing with Yahoo and Google Groups for many years and many revisions, it is clear that the opinions of the users have very little input into the decision making process.

I'm sure you have noticed that every time you switch back to classic groups they offer you a chance to give your opinion about the new interface and explain why you are switching back. That's often a way of making the users feel like they have some sort of input, but is anyone reading the notes? I think they parse them with one of their bots and a human seldom if ever reads them other than to perform evaluation and maintenance of the bot software.

There have been many sci-fi stories written about how intelligent robots take over humanity in some abrupt manner with weapons and blood. I think it will be more like the system we are creating with the web and personal computing devices will take over through an evolutionary process, gradual enough that it is never noticed. Eventually humanity will simply fade away with a whimper having be usurped by machine intelligence over hundreds of years.

It will have all started with Google Groups feedback.

What's really interesting is that this thread is 7 years old! Google has been improving groups in significant enough steps that people objected several different times. This most recent one is really the pits though. Of course I say that every time. Allowing me to express my frustration is how the machines keep me in line.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[azathot...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 at 12:01:39 AM UTC-4, Alex McDonald wrote:
> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently, and it sucketh mightely. It's a pile of steaming uselessness, layered over with more uselessness. I can't get to grips with what must be the stupidest design for threaded group email it's ever been my misfortune to use. I'm going to have to find a decent usenet feed and reader.
>
> Someone at Google should be taken out to the woodshed and soundly thrashed.
>
> Until then...

you are correct sir

[dxforth]

Better if they paid their fair share of tax.

[m...@iae.nl]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 at 6:01:39 AM UTC+2, Alex McDonald wrote:
> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently,

Are you sure? It looks exactly the same as before, at least today.
I went back to the old interface a few times, and now it doesn't even
ask / warn me about the new one anymore.

> and it sucketh mightely.

As much as the old one.

-marcel

[Rick C]

Before what? Did you notice you are responding to a 7 year old post?

It's not like GG hasn't turned their software inside out before now.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[William Cattey]

This no longer works.

[azathot...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 at 12:01:39 AM UTC-4, Alex McDonald wrote:
> The new Google Groups GUI is here permanently, and it sucketh mightely. It's a pile of steaming uselessness, layered over with more uselessness. I can't get to grips with what must be the stupidest design for threaded group email it's ever been my misfortune to use. I'm going to have to find a decent usenet feed and reader.
>
> Someone at Google should be taken out to the woodshed and soundly thrashed.
>
> Until then...

100% this

[dxforth]

They're taking your suggestion and removing everything superfluous
with the aim of getting it down to 1% of the code. Less is more.