Ingres/WWW site
Michael Leo
In article <DJ2s...@apertus.demon.co.uk> Neil Warnock <n...@apertus.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>Help!
>
>I've been tasked with creating a Web site accessing a medium-sized
>Ingres database (potentially 500k rows in some key tables). Whilst I am
>comfortable with the Ingres side of things, the rest of it terrifies me.
>
>My (limited) understanding is that I can achieve this in one of two ways:
>
>1. Use Ingperl called from HTML scripts(?) to access the database (is Ingperl
>public domain? How difficult is it to create HTML scripts? Is it anything
>like creating rich-text format files?).
>
Ingperl is indeed in the public domain. There are two tools in the
NAIUA archive that allow you to do this. One is perl based, the other
CGI.
>2. Wait for OI 1.2 when we will get a bunch of "useful tools for setting up
>a Web site" - or at least that's what Predrag D. announced at the UK Ingres
>User Association meeting last week.
>
You could do that, or use the tools that already exist in the NAIUA archive.
>Can anyone out there give advice on the least painful way of creating such
>a site? Does anyone know what is coming in OI 1.2 that can help?
>
I wouldn't count on it shipping this month. At least not in the UK.
Seriously, ask your CA rep.
Hope this helps. If it does, consider joining the NAIUA.
Cheers,
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Michael Leo | The Ingres FAQ is at ftp.adc.com, /pub/ingres. |
| York & Associates, Inc.| Also check out /pub/ingres/utilities/NAIUA for |
| Minneapolis, MN, USA | the NAIUA Tool Kit. Lastly, access all this via|
| (612) 921-8083 (voice) | WWW at http://www.adc.com/ingres/ing-top.html. |
| m...@winternet.com | All constructive suggestions/criticism welcome. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Peter Graham
>Actually, we have developed a somewhat sophisticated set of Web
>pages/forms using C for accessing an Ingres database. We have
>a set of C programs that access the database based upon the
>users' path through the web pages, dynamically creating the
>HTML as needed in response to user actions. Turns out, it's
>not that difficult. If you have any specific questions, or want
>more information, you can email me at tpg.bnr.ca.
^^^^^^^
Sorry - should have been t...@bnr.ca
>
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Opinions are mine alone, not my employer's
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Peter Graham
pages/forms using C for accessing an Ingres database. We have
a set of C programs that access the database based upon the
users' path through the web pages, dynamically creating the
HTML as needed in response to user actions. Turns out, it's
not that difficult. If you have any specific questions, or want
more information, you can email me at tpg.bnr.ca.
Regards
Peter
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions are mine alone, not my employer's
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Warnock <n...@apertus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Help!
>
>I've been tasked with creating a Web site accessing a medium-sized
>Ingres database (potentially 500k rows in some key tables). Whilst I am
>comfortable with the Ingres side of things, the rest of it terrifies me.
>
>My (limited) understanding is that I can achieve this in one of two ways:
>
>1. Use Ingperl called from HTML scripts(?) to access the database (is Ingperl
>public domain? How difficult is it to create HTML scripts? Is it anything
>like creating rich-text format files?).
>
>2. Wait for OI 1.2 when we will get a bunch of "useful tools for setting up
>a Web site" - or at least that's what Predrag D. announced at the UK Ingres
>User Association meeting last week.
>
>Can anyone out there give advice on the least painful way of creating such
>a site? Does anyone know what is coming in OI 1.2 that can help?
>
>Any help in this area would be much appreciated. Thanks in anticipation.
>
>
>--
>
>--Neil Warrnock
>--Apertus Systems Limited Tel : (44) 113 256 6000
>--Leeds Email : n...@apertus.demon.co.uk
Stefan Plier
>Help!
>
>I've been tasked with creating a Web site accessing a medium-sized
>Ingres database (potentially 500k rows in some key tables). Whilst I am
>comfortable with the Ingres side of things, the rest of it terrifies me.
>
>My (limited) understanding is that I can achieve this in one of two ways:
>
>1. Use Ingperl called from HTML scripts(?) to access the database (is Ingperl
>public domain? How difficult is it to create HTML scripts? Is it anything
>like creating rich-text format files?).
>
>2. Wait for OI 1.2 when we will get a bunch of "useful tools for setting up
>a Web site" - or at least that's what Predrag D. announced at the UK Ingres
>User Association meeting last week.
>
There's another way to access an INGRES Database via HTML
documents:
- Write a HTML-file that implements the user-interface
- Write a ESQLC-program that does the database retrieval
and returns the results in HTML-syntax on stdout
- Write a cgi-script (PERL or standard UNIX shell script)
that calls the ESQLC-program with the parameters typed
in by the user
The flow of data is as follows:
USER via WebBrowser -> httpd -> cgi-script -> ESQLC-program (parameter
passing)
|
USER via WebBrowser <- httpd <- cgi-script <--- (data in
HTML-syntax)
Hope it helped.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Stefan Plier
Siemens AG
Drives and Standard Products Group - Drive Systems Division
-----------------------------------------------------------
pl...@scn.de | http://www.scn.de/~plier/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dave McGlade
In article <4a1ojd$i...@brtph500.bnr.ca>, Peter Graham (t...@bnr.ca) writes:
>Peter Graham <t...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>>Actually, we have developed a somewhat sophisticated set of Web
>>pages/forms using C for accessing an Ingres database. We have
>>a set of C programs that access the database based upon the
>>users' path through the web pages, dynamically creating the
>>HTML as needed in response to user actions. Turns out, it's
>>not that difficult. If you have any specific questions, or want
>>more information, you can email me at tpg.bnr.ca.
>
standard CA terms and conditions - prohibits anyone except named
employees of our company using the database in any shape or form.
Hence to set up a Web site accessing the Ingres database would be
in breach of the agreement.
Has anyone else been given this opinion?
--
Voice (work): (+44) 171 832 5749
PGP 2.6ui registered
Home Page at http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~davem/home.html
Michael Leo
>Our CA sales rep states that the ingres licence we have - which has
>standard CA terms and conditions - prohibits anyone except named
>employees of our company using the database in any shape or form.
>Hence to set up a Web site accessing the Ingres database would be
>in breach of the agreement.
>
>Has anyone else been given this opinion?
>
Hmmm... this could really be a problem for those companies that
have consultants and temps do work there.
Peter Graham
>
>Our CA sales rep states that the ingres licence we have - which has
>standard CA terms and conditions - prohibits anyone except named
>employees of our company using the database in any shape or form.
>Hence to set up a Web site accessing the Ingres database would be
>in breach of the agreement.
>
>Has anyone else been given this opinion?
>
Since our applications are accessible ONLY by employees via our
internal web, this is not an issue.
Peter
Dave McGlade
has a run-time Ingres licence. Otherwise, you are in the same boat
as an external network: no match between users potentially
able to access the data and run-time licences. But see
Anne.L.F.Zorner's response. If the interpretation she was given is
right, I think we could all live with it - but I still don't know
how many run-time licences we would need for the WebServer
application. It sounds as if one-licence-fits-all, which I can't
believe CA would accept.
Micheal Leo commented that the relationship between named staff
and contractors/temps could be a problem. We spotted that one -
our licence does have an additional clause that these are to be
interpreted as our staff. But that is *not* a standard CA clause.
Anne.L.F.Zorner
>In article <1...@mcglade.win-uk.net> da...@mcglade.win-uk.net (Dave McGlade) writes:
>
>>standard CA terms and conditions - prohibits anyone except named
>>employees of our company using the database in any shape or form.
>>Hence to set up a Web site accessing the Ingres database would be
>>in breach of the agreement.
>>
>>Has anyone else been given this opinion?
>>
>
>have consultants and temps do work there.
We were told something slightly different, code (compiled or whatever) must
not be used over the Internet but data which has been extracted via an
application running on a Web
server may be presented to users. ie in the form of a html page.
Anne
Dave McGlade
>I'm amazed nobody has been told they can't use in on computers in the
>same room as an Oracle database ...
>
>Here's how I see it. I buy an 8 user license from CA. Just so I
>don't exceed 8 simultaneous users, I can do whatever I want with
>the software. Geez.
>
>|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>| Michael Leo | The Ingres FAQ is at ftp.adc.com,
>
We thought that too. CA has been insistant - and asked for a
substantial payment because of it - that the licence is NOT for the
number of simultaneous users: it is for named individuals only.
They also confirmed today that a Web server needs a run time
licence for anyone who might access the data via a server.
No, Micheal, you are not the only one who thinks asking for several
million run time licences and naming everyone who might access
your web site beforehand is a trifle silly, especially as CA are
announcing Web server facilities of varous kinds and are promoting
Ingres as a valuable component of a Web server.
Perhaps someone from Computer Associates could post a sensible
answer to this newsgroup?
Michael Leo
I'm amazed nobody has been told they can't use in on computers in the
same room as an Oracle database ...
Here's how I see it. I buy an 8 user license from CA. Just so I
don't exceed 8 simultaneous users, I can do whatever I want with
the software. Geez.
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Michael Leo
I'm sorry. I am I the only one who thinks all this is silly?
Who is the customer? Are we supposed to send a thank you with
our maintenance fees too?
Dwight R Coles
> >Peter Graham <t...@bnr.ca> wrote:
> >>Actually, we have developed a somewhat sophisticated set of Web
> >>pages/forms using C for accessing an Ingres database. We have
> >>a set of C programs that access the database based upon the
> >>users' path through the web pages, dynamically creating the
> >>HTML as needed in response to user actions. Turns out, it's
> >>not that difficult. If you have any specific questions, or want
> >>more information, you can email me at tpg.bnr.ca.
> >
> > ^^^^^^^
> >Sorry - should have been t...@bnr.ca
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Peter
> >
> standard CA terms and conditions - prohibits anyone except named
> employees of our company using the database in any shape or form.
> Hence to set up a Web site accessing the Ingres database would be
> in breach of the agreement.
DBMS and related software first on the basis of an unlimited
number of users on a machine, then later as "a maximum number of
concurrent users" with no restrictions about whether the users had
to be under employment by the company. "Named" employees of the
company is CERTAINLY not a part of any contract ASK or CA has
presented to us. Otherwise, you'd continually be having to update
your legal access list as you hired, fired and lost employees.
HOW STUPID COULD A COMPUTER COMPANY GET????
Now, you could CERTAINLY make a case that your WEB server software
simply will be talking to db access program(s) which you might write.
If you write them, CA certainly has no ability to control them.
This would be how most folks support Web servers anyway:
WEB SERVER (many users) => CGI or your own data-retrieving engine =>
Ingres DBMS server
Thus, if you have only a few data-retrieving-engines, you do not
violate the "maximum number of concurrent connections" of your
license.
Continued problems with sales reps could be officially reported to
the NAIUA, if CA is uninterested in hearing about the complaints
themselves.
Dwight Coles - drc...@sandia.gov
>
> Has anyone else been given this opinion?
>
Tony R. Williams
CA-INGRES was releasing a new version/upgrade/product that allowed the
database to interface with Internet Web pages. It was part of the CA's
Internet vision.
Now I know that this can be done now, but this new ? is design for
exactly this. Sorry I would be more specific but I don't have the
magazine with me.
The license would have to change/be amended to allow for this.