Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

[Jason Follas]

Every year, we evaluate what works and what doesn't work about how Codemash operates, and we try to improve on the process the next year without impacting what has been successful in the past.  Sometimes the new attempts work great and everyone cheers... and sometimes not.

Today, the hotel reservation process is an example of something that sounded good on paper, but is generating a lot of frustration in the actual implementation (and not just for the people unable to get through - it's frustrating for the organizers to see this happen, too).

Let's use this thread to post your suggestions for how it can be improved for next year.

The situation and things that can't change: 

• We have about 850 hotel rooms on the property for 2000+ people attending the conference. There are a number of other hotels in the area, and we provide a shuttle service as a way to handle overflows. Families staying offsite can still get waterpark passes and spend their day at the Kalahari.
• We won't reduce the number of tickets - that will cause other problems during ticket sales. 
• We cannot be in the business of taking reservations on the Kalahari's behalf when you buy your ticket. Did that the first year. Too many moving parts and headaches for us to be successful.
  
• We need to keep the alumni ticket program going, but cannot give the 900+ alumni ticket holders exclusive access to the reservation line ahead of everyone else. That's why this year's reservations opened today for everyone all at once.
• We cannot open the reservations before tickets are sold. That was last year's problem that we tried to improve this year (the hotel almost sold out before anybody even had a ticket last year once word got out about the group code being accepted).

Given these constraints (and maybe some that I haven't thought of yet), what do you think can be done next year to improve?

Serious and constructive suggestions only, please.

[Eric Gurney]

How about an online lottery to get codes to get rooms.  That way I wouldn't have to hit redial 500x (and counting...)  I could get them at my leisure, assuming I won the lottery.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Amos Oshrin]

Finally got through and used the callback option. 15 minutes later they called. They are out of hut rooms. I ended up with a lodge.

 

[Brendan Enrick]

Or perhaps the lottery is for the day you have access to buy. If everyone gets one of 10 codes or something. Earlier codes get access sooner. That would be 200ish people per day that can call in.

Brendan

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Eric Gurney
Sent: 10/10/2014 11:53 AM
To: code...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [CodeMash] Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

[Andrea Gibson]

I like Brendans idea. It mitigates the rush on the hotel, makes it random on who gets in, not on who is willing to not work for X amount of time while on hold, as well as has an option for those who do not buy at the Kalahari for those further down the line to get access.

The one problem I see would be if someone who gets the first code shares with friends/colleagues who got a much later code to get in. (Could be fixed by giving the list of people eligible per day to Kalahari, but not sure how feasible that is.)

[Nayan Hajratwala]

Even the hut rooms have 2 beds. My guess is that about half those beds go empty. Some people don’t mind sharing rooms. Others hate it.

Maybe have some system ahead of time that lets people find others who want to share a room & cost. This would reduce load on the reservation system as well as let more people stay on-site.

---
Nayan Hajratwala - 734.658.6032 - http://agileshrugged.com - @nhajratw

[Steven Huwig]

A group discount and some planned after-hours social activities at a specific overflow hotel might help. Right now I've just about given up on a resort room, but that's OK because my kids can't come this year anyway. But I have no idea which other hotel I should choose for the best non-Kalahari conference experience.

[Shelley Storch]

Shelley R. Storch
Senior Programmer Analyst
TravelCenters of America
(O) (440)-808-4487
SSt...@ta-petro.com
"Making TA the Highway Travelers' Choice!"

[Shelley Storch]

[Jeff V]

Would be nice if either:

A) Break this process into 3 separate "events"; speakers and sponsors, Alumni, and General. That way there are more, smaller rushes.

B) Reserve the 800 rooms for CodeMash, and have a "... with Room" ticket option right on Eventbright when you get your ticket. That then gives you a room reservation ID that you can call and redeem any time over the next week. The ticket cost could add in the room reservation price, and for those that want to extend their stay into the weekend, they can arrange that when they call to redeem their reservation ID.

I love CodeMash, but this is frustrating to do year after year... (writing this while still on hold again, after the hold has hung up on me twice)

-Jeff

[Shelley Storch]

After two hours of trying and being on hold - NO HUTs for Wednesday and Thursday.

Really this is super bad.  

The flow over is as follows:

LaQuinta $79.00 (419) 626-6766 mention codemash

Hampton Inn $99.00 (419) 609-0000

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to

code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Brian Krohn]

Regarding the shuttle service.  I used it last year, and it was great.  That is until I called for the shuttle to go back to my hotel at 11:30pm on Wednesday, and they told me shuttle service stopped at 11.  Very not cool.

On Friday, October 10, 2014 11:48:27 AM UTC-4, Jason Follas wrote:

[Peter Ritchie]

Maybe I'm biased, but maybe some priority for out-of-towners?

Cheers - Petere

---

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:48:27 -0700
From: jfo...@gmail.com
To: code...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [CodeMash] Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

[David Stanek]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Jason Follas <jfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Given these constraints (and maybe some that I haven't thought of yet), what do you think can be done next year to improve?

Serious and constructive suggestions only, please.

There are two issues here:

  - The hotel capacity is just under half of the number of tickets

  - The overwhelming rush to get a room

Room sharing is the obvious way to help with the capacity issue. It would be nice to come up with a way to incentivise people to share. Discounted tickets (that may mean raise it for everyone else) or some other exclusive privilege...

The rush would probably not be as big of a deal if it didn't take so long to get a room. I don't hear anyone suggesting we do a ticket lottery. That doesn't make sense to me, just like a room lottery doesn't make sense. So what can we do about it?

It would be nice if Kalahari could put the time and money needed into making their site handle this type of event and load. I have to imagine that with the bigger conference center that this will become more and more of an issue for them. So we should try to apply some pressure here.

Another option could be use to try to use Eventbrite to manage rooms. To not break the "We cannot be in the business of taking reservations on the Kalahari's behalf" constraint we would really have to get Kalahari to buy into the fact that their system is not sufficient and let them manage this event. Money goes directly to them along with who bought what. I think this is a long shot (if that), but it keeps the model that I think is fair and puts the burden back onto Kalahari's shoulders.

--
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek

www: http://dstanek.com

[Chadrick Mahaffey]

Full week attendees should get first dibs on rooms.

[James Bender]

The problem is that for all the other weeks of the year the Kalahari’s system is sufficient to handle the load. It doesn’t make sense for them to spend a lot of money to fix a problem that only effects them less than 2% of the time.

--

[James Bender]

Define “out-of-towner.” If it’s everyone who doesn’t live within 10 miles of the venue that’s got to about about 99% of the attendees.

 

From: code...@googlegroups.com [mailto:code...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Ritchie

Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 12:30 PM
To: code...@googlegroups.com

[Michael Letterle]

This is a fantastic idea, and with the delay between ticket sales and room sales there's no reason not to pre-survey and setup room shares ahead of time.

--
Michael Letterle
----------//-----------
http://blog.prokrams.com

[Ellie Chalko]

They also did not handle this well.  I just had a horrific experience with an agent and her manager….

 

 

From: code...@googlegroups.com [mailto:code...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Bender

Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 12:35 PM
To: code...@googlegroups.com

[David Stanek]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:35 PM, James Bender <ja...@jamescbender.com> wrote:

The problem is that for all the other weeks of the year the Kalahari’s system is sufficient to handle the load. It doesn’t make sense for them to spend a lot of money to fix a problem that only effects them less than 2% of the time.

I'm guessing that this won't always be the case and that they are looking to host much, much bigger events than ours. They invested millions into the new convention center that they claim can accommodate events up to 5000 people. I think we are the first (or one of the first) group to stretch their limits, but it'll start happening to them more and more.

[Michael Letterle]

I suspect much larger events (and even events of Codemash's size) are much more expensive and don't experience the same level of "release day" rush when tickets/rooms go on sale.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[James Bender]

Yeah, but who knows how long that will be. Until it happens there is no motivation to fix the “problem.” We can’t rely on this being solved by them anytime soon.

 

From: code...@googlegroups.com [mailto:code...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Stanek
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 12:45 PM
To: code...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [CodeMash] Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

 

 

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:35 PM, James Bender <ja...@jamescbender.com> wrote:

--

[Ellie Chalko]

A different venue would fix it…

 

 

From: code...@googlegroups.com [mailto:code...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Bender

Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 12:47 PM
To: code...@googlegroups.com

[James Bender]

Don’t hold your breath.

[Rob Conklin]

Doesn't kalahari have a group login page?  

https://res.kalahariresorts.com/V1Web/Custom/GroupLogin.aspx?

This guy uses it for some group activity, and he seems to have links straight from his page to use the "group rate"

http://www.kalaharifamilynights.com/sandusky-kalahari

On Friday, October 10, 2014 11:48:27 AM UTC-4, Jason Follas wrote:

[Laurence Mingle]

I like the idea of a room share system to prearrage the room sharing. I've arranged room sharing for myself and fellow/previous co-workers for every CodeMash I've attended over the years. Then we split the cost evenly based on however many stay in the room.

Larry

[Stephen Houston]

An idea for room sharing would be to have an application on the codemash website.  You would be able to either register your room and empty beds, or register to get placed into a room. From there, people looking for a room could 'sign up' for a room and contact the room holder to figure out a deal, and the room holder could assign people to the empty beds and take their room off the list when full.

[cyfer13]

While I'd love it if they had an 'out-of-town' priority, I don't think that is feasible since everyone is out of town.

At this point, after the awful experience and wasted time this morning, I'd be happy with a lottery. Give out 200 codes randomly. Then 4 hours later, give out another 200. And keep giving them out till it's full. It's fair in that it gives the same awful experience to everybody, but at least we don't have to wait on hold and listen to the busy tone and waste multiple hours only to be told it's sold out.

-C

[Kenneth LeFebvre]

+1 for a room share system.

 

From: code...@googlegroups.com [mailto:code...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurence Mingle
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 12:52 PM
To: code...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [CodeMash] Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

 

I like the idea of a room share system to prearrage the room sharing. I've arranged room sharing for myself and fellow/previous co-workers for every CodeMash I've attended over the years. Then we split the cost evenly based on however many stay in the room.

[Metro]

I for one, would like to see preferential access to rooms for those attending the precompiler days. The more days you are attending the earlier you get to book your reservation.  It looks like Thursday night sold out first.  leaving anyone looking for a week-long reservation out in the cold (literally).  I would think that this would be better for the Kalahari.

[Stephen Tolton]

Maybe something like a Trello board of available rooms to be shared could be setup to help organize things? I think a lot of people would be fine sharing rooms if it was easier to facilitate. 

[Dan Bays]

I posted this on the other thread before this one existed:

So here is a suggestion for next year.  Ticket purchases go into a queue in the order they are made.  Then on the day hotel reservations open you send out a special room reservation code via email.  These are sent out in the order that ticket purchases are made with the exception that alumni tickets are alternated with normal tickets.  The emails go out a couple at a time at 5 or 10 minute intervals.  You can only call to reserve your room using the reservation code.  Therefore the reservation calls will be distributed over the course of the day in the order the ticket sales were made.

 

It's all about the algorythm.

Some people commented that order of ticket sales is not fair.  So I agree random lottery would be better.  But the trick is in order to help the Kalahari and make best use of the attendees time we would have to forcefully stagger the call volume.  So releasing reservation tickets on a staggered basis might solve this.  Of course it would require one of us coders to volunteer a bit of time to write the email tool and tie it to what eventbrite provides.

On Friday, October 10, 2014 11:48:27 AM UTC-4, Jason Follas wrote:

Every year, we evaluate what works and what doesn't work about how Codemash operates, and we try to improve on the process the next year without impacting what has been successful in the past.  Sometimes the new attempts work great and everyone cheers... and sometimes not.

Today, the hotel reservation process is an example of something that sounded good on paper, but is generating a lot of frustration in the actual implementation (and not just for the people unable to get through - it's frustrating for the organizers to see this happen, too).

Let's use this thread to post your suggestions for how it can be improved for next year.

The situation and things that can't change: 

• We have about 850 hotel rooms on the property for 2000+ people attending the conference. There are a number of other hotels in the area, and we provide a shuttle service as a way to handle overflows. Families staying offsite can still get waterpark passes and spend their day at the Kalahari.
• We won't reduce the number of tickets - that will cause other problems during ticket sales. 

• We cannot be in the business of taking reservations on the Kalahari's behalf when you buy your ticket. Did that the first year. Too many moving parts and headaches for us to be successful.
  
• We need to keep the alumni ticket program going, but cannot give the 900+ alumni ticket holders exclusive access to the reservation line ahead of everyone else. That's why this year's reservations opened today for everyone all at once.
• We cannot open the reservations before tickets are sold. That was last year's problem that we tried to improve this year (the hotel almost sold out before anybody even had a ticket last year once word got out about the group code being accepted).

[Joshua Carmody]

The Kalahari already has a "callback" feature in their phone system. I used it today after I eventually got through (around 12:25 PM EDT), and although it didn't get me a room, they *did* call me back.

So maybe next year the easiest thing to do would be to have a checkbox when you buy a ticket, "Have the Kalahari call me to reserve a room when the room block opens". That way you don't have 2000 people calling 100 times each, everybody waits for the Kalahari to call them. This would at least remove the strain on the phone system and the hours of anxious redialing, and it wouldn't require any new systems be set up other than a new field on the registration form.

The order of calls could be random, FIFO, longer stays first, whatever is fair. The system would work regardless.

[Robert Casto]

Instead of basing an entry into the lottery, people should be able to sign up. They pick the room they want to be in the lottery for, and only one entry. Some want a hut, others a suite. This way you compete with the group of people that want that room.

Hand out a registration code to the next person on the list. The hotel would have a list of codes predetermined. If someone doesn't call quickly, they can later, but they may not get the room they want. The hotel manager can be given a special login page to tell the system when a room type is sold out and that would stop the sending of codes. It would also let them see how many more people are interested, or whether they can suggest other room sizes because no one is left who wants that room size.

So to sum up, sign up website where you pick a room, and add your ticket number. Only way to make sure people don't game with multiple email addresses. Email registration codes to attendees. And the hotel can use that code on the website to determine if it is valid. They can mark it used and that will stop sharing codes as well.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Robert Casto

Owner | SellersToolbox

p: 1-513-847-4942 

c: 1-513-886-1550

e: casto....@gmail.com

www.sellerstoolbox.com

Tools for Amazon Sellers

[JoshReedSchramm]

Jason, 

Not to be contentious but what's the problem with last year? Were people booking rooms and not using them in anticipation or did most of the early registrations end up getting tickets to the con and it worked out? 

Im pretty sure i was an early reg last year but i usually go with a group of 5-6 other people so our reservation was fine even if one or two of us didn't get a ticket. 

[Aaron Bauman]

+1 for Dan Bays.
I think we should be able to identify the order in which people purchased a ticket in relation to the ticket release time.
So a normal ticket that was purchased 5 minutes after the sale opened, gets priority over an alumni ticket that was purchased 8 minutes after alumni tickets opened.

Reservation codes should "guarantee" a room if you call within the given time frame, say 1 hour.

I'm not sure how to handle rooms that aren't used, do you start over or do you just open it up? Opening it up could turn it into a rush again...

[David Stanek]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 1:21 PM, JoshReedSchramm <josh.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not to be contentious but what's the problem with last year?

That is a good question. The complaints I heard last year where that people were getting the discount even before they knew they had a ticket. The biggest problem is that there was no way to know at check-in time if the person should actually get the discounted rate. 

[Scott Williams]

This not an easy problem to solve.  Honestly, the "real" answer to this is for the Kalahari to have more rooms, period.

If this wasn't an indoor water park with all of the after hours activities, this wouldn't be an issue, there would be people that would seek out satellite hotels  just to save some money.  The problem is that everyone wants to stay in the Resort, and that just isn't possible.

Room sharing is a fine idea, except that because of the venue (and the appeal of codemash in general) many people bring their families with them.  There may be 2000 people there for the conference, but how many are actually at the Kalahari for that week, I'm guessing closer to 4-5 thousand.

I understand people who are frustrated that some booked hotel rooms before even buying a ticket in the past couple of years, but IMO, this was not a better experience than last year.

Without being able to add more rooms to the Kalahari, the simple laws of supply and demand may need to be applied here.  Ticket with Kalahari reservation code will cost X+Y, ticket without Kalahari code will only cost X.  Problem is, Y is going to need to be fairly significant.

[Dan Bays]

Aaron,

   Actually it might be overthinking it to guarantee and put back in the pool.  Rather there is a reservation code matched to every ticket.  Those codes are sent out on a staggered basis.  If you use them quickly after you get the email - great.  If not or things fill up before your reservation code comes up - go to overflow.  In other words even tickets that are so late (via random or ordered list) that they do not stand a chance of getting a room get a reservation code and staggered email.

Fewer moving parts in the software = simpler.

I am sensing an adhoc hallway session to white board next year's hotel reservation strategy ;)

[Jason Follas]

Josh: Last year, if someone didn't know that you could book the hotel early (which, btw, was not our intention), they would buy a ticket on opening day and only then find out that the hotel was sold out.  This was somewhat mitigated by the hotel not offering 100% of the rooms to the conference (i.e., you could likely still buy a room at their rack rate, which was significantly more per night than our contracted discount rate).

We tried to tweak the process to make it more fair for everyone, so this year, the room block didn't open until after the ticket sales (and 100% of the hotel is ours per the contract).  The unanticipated twist was the volume of calls that this created overloaded the phone system.

[Michael Letterle]

Paying a premium for early access to room reservation (with a limited amount of premium tickets) doesn't sound like a bad idea...

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[JoshReedSchramm]

Fair enough - i just viewed the situation as kind of a trickle of registrations instead of the deluge we saw this morning. I'll admit it isn't perfectly fair because you had to be really paying attention to know you could call. Also i can see why if you buy a ticket, especially non alum who aren't as aware of the craziness of this event, you might be mad you couldn't get in the hotel. That said i feel like must be equally if not more disappointing to be a codemash "regular" and not get a room.

Not a easy problem. Is the Kalahari's reservation system capable of doing different blocks at different times and then having multiple registration times like some folks are suggesting? Can eventbright randomly bucket people or send different codes based on how many tickets are left at a given time?

I could see a big problem being the limitations of both eventbright and the kalahari - not to mention the codemash organizers time to do something custom. 

[JoshReedSchramm]

Personally I'd be ok with this but i could see it being a bit counter to the "Codemash way." Kind of like how tickets are still pretty affordable despite overwhelming demand, in theory the con could charge a lot more. 

Maybe if there were some additional educational value or something that tied the additional price into the event... dunno. 

[Amitai Schlair]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Ellie Chalko
<ellie_...@cynergies.net> wrote:

> A different venue would fix it...

A different venue would likely claim to fix it. Perhaps they would
succeed, perhaps not. Do we know how that's different from what likely
occurred with the Kalahari today? If the organizers were to choose a
different venue, what tradeoffs would that entail? I could offer some
guesses. The surest one would probably be the cost of attendance.

Of course, if CodeMash became expensive, that would be one way to ease
the registration bottlenecks.

I hear your frustration. It took me more than two hours to not be able
to stay at the Kalahari; not a great user experience. I would suggest
we keep in mind that we don't see and don't know the many difficult
tradeoffs the organizers have undertaken to make on our behalf, and
that if we care about this event, we should try harder to show care
for the people who bring it to us. I don't know any of them, but I
guarantee you they're doing their best to show care for us.

- Amitai

[Jason Follas]

Just to add to the things that cannot change while brainstorming:

- We won't change the venue. The Kalahari itself as a backdrop is as much a part of Codemash as the speakers, sponsors, staff, and audience. You could put on an identical conference somewhere else, but it would not be Codemash.

[Lee Muro]

Not sure if this was already suggested in this thread or not, but why couldn't Kalahari accept the reservations online via a special promo code?  Seems like this would reduce their load on the phone systems, and everyone could probably get their reservation in quickly (assuming their computers can keep up ;)).  This obviously doesn't solve the capacity issue but it could solve the issue of volume.

Also, as far as capacity goes, I wonder if it would make sense for Kalahari to consider building some more rooms to account for the increased conference space.  I know they already did this, but perhaps its still insufficient?

[Josh Berke]

The best option would be for the Kalahari to invest in more hotel rooms. Aside from that, giving priority to people who purchased pre-compiler days was a good suggestion...if someone is going to spend 4 days there they should be able to stay on site. 

I don't like the idea of the lottery, that puts getting the room up to chance. There is a certain skill involved here at getting your room. If you waited till 10:05 to call well that was a problem. When I called, I waited on hold about 5 minutes before getting through too someone.

Room share is also a great solution.   

[Mike Dennis]

If you can only buy one ticket, you should also only be able to reserve one room.  It sounded like that wasn't the case.

[Brian Meeker]

"There is a certain skill involved here at getting your room. If you waited till 10:05 to call well that was a problem. When I called, I waited on hold about 5 minutes before getting through too someone."

I called as soon as my phone said it was 10:00 and continued calling for the next 2 hours. Busy signal every single time. There was no skill involved. This was as much luck based as a lottery with way more frustration.

[Robert Casto]

Isn't the Kalahari being gracious by waiting until a set time to book the rooms? Any solution should look at making things easy for them.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Josh Berke <joshua...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Mike Feltman]

I wonder if not discounting the rate so much might help alleviate this problem somewhat. The Codemash room rate is ridiculously cheap compared to normal prices. Perhaps if it wasn’t such a great deal then everyone wouldn’t want to stay there so badly. Since Codemash gets such a great rate for Kalahari I’d suspect a deal could be worked out where the conference saves money elsewhere and that savings is passed on to the attendees in the form of lower prices, more swag, dark chocolate covered bacon or something along those lines.

 

Also, I know a lot of peeps bring their families and that is awfully nice, but given that those numbers are in the minority and the demand for rooms by conference attendees cannot be met, maybe that stuff should be cut out. Maybe between these 2 things some kind of discounts could be worked out for additional rooms and availability at a discount rate for Friday & Saturday nights and families could join in for the weekend.

 

Another idea would be to offer different rates for single vs. double occupancy. In order to get a double occupancy rate the person making the reservation would need to have 2 ticket codes.  

--

[Joe Kuemerle]

I agree with Jason the site is essential for the vibe of the conference (which is also why there is such a desire to want to stay on the property).  There are also alternatives such as ThatConference at the Kalahari in the Wisconsin Dells and (coming in 2015ish) one in the new Poconos Kalahari that I am going to organize.

On that note: anyone interested in helping out with a CodeMash-style conference in the Poconos please feel free to reach out to me. I've already gotten some great words of support from the CodeMash and ThatConference organizers and I am going to get cracking on making this happen (once I get my CodeMash presentation done).

Also, I still need a good name for the conference and am open to suggestions.

[yllams]

Last year the people that were complaining were people that hadn't been there before and didn't plan ahead...this year just about everyone is complaining.  Like tickets being alumni gives you an advantage, last year it gave you the advantage to know to get your hotel early and you get your tix early.  Why should that change being alumni should give you the advantage on hotel room buy as well.  

The room share is great for people not planning on bringing family but again Kalahari's draw is that I want to bring my family and don't want to share a room.  Beyond that while I might be willing to share a room with someone I know, I'm an adult and have zero interest in sharing with someone I don't know and shouldn't be punished from getting a room because of that.

[Jon Kruger]

How about including a registration code with each ticket.  If you want the full discount on a room, you have to provide enough registration codes to fill the room to capacity.  So maybe if you want a Hut room for $95, you need 2 people, otherwise it's $135.

I realize that this might make it more expensive for families, which is somewhat of a downer, but I would think that people who are paying to go to the conference should get preference over people who aren't, and if you want to bring your family, you can still do it (at a slightly higher rate), or you can just have them come up Friday.

I don't like the idea of random lotteries because that's just as random as what happened today.  I'd rather provide an incentive for people to share rooms.

[Mike Feltman]

So in summary, policy should be based on what you want, instead of what’s best for the majority? J

[Jay]

Most of these suggestions are about making the process faster and less painful but the problem is that there simply aren't enough rooms for everyone. The proper question we should be asking is how can we convince 50% +/- of the people that they WANT to stay at a nearby hotel.
 
Someone suggested having some after hours events at a different hotel which is a great idea. Since Kalahari is great for families maybe you could do something in the evenings at another hotel that is targeted at adults (minds out of the gutter please) to attract those without children to stay off-site. I'm sure the group as a whole could come up with some great after hours ideas to attract attendees to stay off-site. Additionally, since this is a problem every year it would really help if the conference negotiated some rates at nearby hotels (sorry to suggest more work for the organizers, I know you're already overloaded with to-do's and I thank you for the great job you do) because the overflow rates aren't nearly as good as the Kalahari rates, that would help take some of the sting out of staying off-site. Holding some after hours events at the overflow hotel would probably help get those rates down.

[yllams]

You assume the majority want to share rooms and not bring families based on 50 posts...you know what they say about assuming :)

[Ed Starback]

The Kalahari has a callback option.  Have a website that starts accepting people at 15 minutes before the hotel rooms open up.  On the web site you only put in your name and phone number, just like the callback.  Then the Kalahari would call you back based on first come, first serve at the web site.  That way we don't have to call a whole bunch of times.

[Faye Thompson]

I would suggest we keep in mind that we don't see and don't know the many difficult
tradeoffs the organizers have undertaken to make on our behalf, and
that if we care about this event, we should try harder to show care
for the people who bring it to us. I don't know any of them, but I
guarantee you they're doing their best to show care for us.

- Amitai

Agree 100%.  These are smart people, who are working year-round to put on a stellar event.  Most of us (I believe) would agree that they have absolutely succeeded in this. 

[Barry Moore]

Has there been consideration for splitting the venue, some events at Kalihari and others at Great Wolf.? That would distribute the reservations across to resorts and likely help the room reservation crunch.  I don't fully understand the requirement to keep this venue and time of year only and turn it into a competition when may people clearly want to attend and have equal consideration for accommodations. It seems to be the intent to deliberately create competition among participants. Even if everyone gets savvy and pre-books there rooms, they will compete for the same resources and no solution is achieved.

[Mike Feltman]

Not at all. Facilitating room sharing gives people more options. It will still come down to supply and demand. As far as the families go, it’s really nice to be able to bring the fam to a conference, but from what I have seen, the percentage attendees with families there is very low. Also, from a priority standpoint, it’s only logical that rooms in the conference hotel would go to those attending the conference first.

[Aaron Riddle]

I agree. I'm not quite sure how to logistically do this. But I ended up with a room at the Kalahari for the first two days, then I have to move for the actual conference. Sort of defeats the purpose. 

On Friday, October 10, 2014 12:32:11 PM UTC-4, Chadrick wrote:

Full week attendees should get first dibs on rooms.

On Oct 10, 2014 11:48 AM, "Jason Follas" <jfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Every year, we evaluate what works and what doesn't work about how Codemash operates, and we try to improve on the process the next year without impacting what has been successful in the past.  Sometimes the new attempts work great and everyone cheers... and sometimes not.

Today, the hotel reservation process is an example of something that sounded good on paper, but is generating a lot of frustration in the actual implementation (and not just for the people unable to get through - it's frustrating for the organizers to see this happen, too).

Let's use this thread to post your suggestions for how it can be improved for next year.

The situation and things that can't change: 

• We have about 850 hotel rooms on the property for 2000+ people attending the conference. There are a number of other hotels in the area, and we provide a shuttle service as a way to handle overflows. Families staying offsite can still get waterpark passes and spend their day at the Kalahari.
• We won't reduce the number of tickets - that will cause other problems during ticket sales. 
• We cannot be in the business of taking reservations on the Kalahari's behalf when you buy your ticket. Did that the first year. Too many moving parts and headaches for us to be successful.
  
• We need to keep the alumni ticket program going, but cannot give the 900+ alumni ticket holders exclusive access to the reservation line ahead of everyone else. That's why this year's reservations opened today for everyone all at once.
• We cannot open the reservations before tickets are sold. That was last year's problem that we tried to improve this year (the hotel almost sold out before anybody even had a ticket last year once word got out about the group code being accepted).

Given these constraints (and maybe some that I haven't thought of yet), what do you think can be done next year to improve?

Serious and constructive suggestions only, please.

[Michael Letterle]

Families are an integral part of CodeMash and have been from the beginning (see KidzMash), I doubt there will be anything done to "discourage" this.

[Scott Williams]

I think they already have over 300 interested in KidzMash this year.  That doesn't count those that just hang in the water park the entire time.  I think you are vastly underestimating those who bring non-attendees with them.  If you force room sharing on the conference, then IMO, it would kill it, this isn't a realistic solution.

[Joe Kuemerle]

Agreed. Also based on https://twitter.com/codemash/status/517426598417428480 there are going to be at least 340 kids there, which means that at least a sizable minority of attendees will be bringing family.

Personally, I am not the only one in my family to get excited every September/October, my kids (and spouse) always look forward to CodeMash, The family friendliness is a welcome feature in a conference.

[yllams]

If the percentage was so low, as you say, the KidzMash wouldn't exist and continue to grow as well...not to mention if you stay over to Sat. you will still see a lot of people from the conference whose families show up Friday and spend the weekend.  Facilitation of room sharing and expecting/requiring room sharing are very different

[Chadrick Mahaffey]

Yeah - don't force room share but let's build some tools to facilitate it for sure and figure out ways to order rooms based on the tools. And to say it one more time, full week attendees should get first dibs. That would include room shares and anyone else doing full week. We solve problems for a living. We can figure this out.

[Jason Follas]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.  These are being noted and will be discussed during our annual planning meeting.

Please feel free to continue posting ideas for how the process could improve, but also keep the conversation constructive.  Think: "brainstorming", where ideas don't become "strawmen" for debate until later.

There are a lot of dynamics involved with this problem (i.e., people bringing families, people by themselves, people who snore, people who can't sleep in the same room as someone who snores, etc).  Our challenge as organizers is to find the solution that will allow as many speakers, staff, sponsors, attendees, and Kidzmash kids as possible to stay on-site in the fairest way possible.

[yllams]

Exactly ... my 5 year old asked me a couple of days ago when we were going to Kalahari (and by that he means Codemash)...he's a 5 year attendee (so are his older siblings).

[Steven Huwig]

Tonight I'll have to tell my six-year-old that we'll miss out this January. Hopefully the Kalahari will continue the trend of offering the discounted rate at another point in the off-season.

Maybe it's best for all of us alumni-with-families to treat the Kalahari excursion for Codemash as a nice surprise rather than a planned vacation, and plan contingencies accordingly. :)

[Kenneth LeFebvre]

My wife and kids get ecstatic about CodeMash, too, but they probably wouldn’t attend if we couldn’t get a room at Kalahari, because the difference between running back to the room and getting four kids dressed and packed up to drive back to the room, is significant.

 

Selfishly, I would say families get first dibs on the rooms!

 

On the other hand, I have attended alone, in the past, and would have loved to participate in a room sharing arrangement, if it had been easy to coordinate.

 

The more options, that are optional, the better, I think. I didn’t think anyone was proposing mandatory room sharing, but I think it’s a great option to have available.

[Mike Feltman]

Yeah, someone else already posted that where were 300 kids for Kidzmash which is at least triple of what I thought the numbers for kids were. They must all be some pretty well behaved kids, because I really don’t notice them around much.

 

I hear you on the Friday thing. I already suggested that things could possibly be structured to aim the conference more towards families coming in for the weekend.

 

The bottom line is that for both the conference and the hotel supply exceeds demand. There’s no way to make everyone happy. These are great problems for the organizers to have.

 

From: code...@googlegroups.com [mailto:code...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of yllams
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 3:43 PM
To: code...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [CodeMash] Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

 

If the percentage was so low, as you say, the KidzMash wouldn't exist and continue to grow as well...not to mention if you stay over to Sat. you will still see a lot of people from the conference whose families show up Friday and spend the weekend.

On Friday, October 10, 2014 3:33:06 PM UTC-4, MikeFeltman wrote:

[David Stanek]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Jason Follas <jfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Think: "brainstorming", where ideas don't become "strawmen" for debate until later.

I really think, if nothing else, that creating incentives for room sharing would hopefully allow the hotel rooms to be more densely packed.  Do anyone have any ideas about what would make a good incentive?

--
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek

www: http://dstanek.com

[Robert Casto]

No incentives. Just make it easy for people to do. Many people don't want to share a room for lots of good reasons. So make it easy for those who want to share, and do a random lottery for having the "opportunity" to sign up for a room. That is about as fair as you can get. Everything else is catering to a particular group and will most likely be voted down by the organizers.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[Steven Huwig]

This is a great idea; the phone lines would not be swamped and it would not be such a demoralizing crapshoot, if room-sharers had their African Queen or other suite reservation plans laid in advance and they were able to designate one person to call for the room. Instead of 3-6 people all trying for an expensive room and then hoping to either roomshare or spend more money than expected, you'd have only one person calling. People would feel more secure in their plans and the rooms would be fuller.

[Shelley Storch]

I would be curious if crossing through phone several exchanges to the Wisconsin Headquarters had any bearing on who got through and who did not.

I'd like to know some stats as to the location people are from that got the rooms vs location of the people who did not.

I am in Ohio and the 877 number was not letting any of our group through to the queue.

Shelley R. Storch
Senior Programmer Analyst
TravelCenters of America
(O) (440)-808-4487
SSt...@ta-petro.com
"Making TA the Highway Travelers' Choice!"

[Shelley Storch]

What skill?   We all dialed and many of us got the busy and hung up or a ring then a busy and a hang up.

There was no skill involved whatsoever.

Shelley R. Storch
Senior Programmer Analyst
TravelCenters of America
(O) (440)-808-4487
SSt...@ta-petro.com
"Making TA the Highway Travelers' Choice!"

From:        Brian Meeker <meeker...@gmail.com>
To:        code...@googlegroups.com,
Date:        10/10/2014 02:32 PM
Subject:        Re: [CodeMash] Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

Sent by:        code...@googlegroups.com

---

"There is a certain skill involved here at getting your room. If you waited till 10:05 to call well that was a problem. When I called, I waited on hold about 5 minutes before getting through too someone."

I called as soon as my phone said it was 10:00 and continued calling for the next 2 hours. Busy signal every single time. There was no skill involved. This was as much luck based as a lottery with way more frustration.

On Friday, October 10, 2014 2:28:58 PM UTC-4, Berke wrote:
The best option would be for the Kalahari to invest in more hotel rooms. Aside from that, giving priority to people who purchased pre-compiler days was a good suggestion...if someone is going to spend 4 days there they should be able to stay on site.

I don't like the idea of the lottery, that puts getting the room up to chance. There is a certain skill involved here at getting your room. If you waited till 10:05 to call well that was a problem. When I called, I waited on hold about 5 minutes before getting through too someone.

Room share is also a great solution.  

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Jason Follas <jfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to add to the things that cannot change while brainstorming:

- We won't change the venue. The Kalahari itself as a backdrop is as much a part of Codemash as the speakers, sponsors, staff, and audience. You could put on an identical conference somewhere else, but it would not be Codemash.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Amitai Schlair <sch...@schmonz.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Ellie Chalko
<ellie_...@cynergies.net> wrote:

> A different venue would fix it...

A different venue would likely claim to fix it. Perhaps they would
succeed, perhaps not. Do we know how that's different from what likely
occurred with the Kalahari today? If the organizers were to choose a
different venue, what tradeoffs would that entail? I could offer some
guesses. The surest one would probably be the cost of attendance.

Of course, if CodeMash became expensive, that would be one way to ease
the registration bottlenecks.

I hear your frustration. It took me more than two hours to not be able
to stay at the Kalahari; not a great user experience. I would suggest
we keep in mind that we don't see and don't know the many difficult
tradeoffs the organizers have undertaken to make on our behalf, and
that if we care about this event, we should try harder to show care
for the people who bring it to us. I don't know any of them, but I
guarantee you they're doing their best to show care for us.

- Amitai

[James Hatheway]

Don't think that had any bearing, was just luck and where you were in the mad rush to call in.

I dialed the phone number for Kalahari Sandusky that is listed on Google (419) 433-7200, I dialed it direct from my cell phone here in the Cayman Islands where I live, and got 3 or 4 busy signals before I got through (and was on hold for an hour).

I got a suite from Mon - Thursday and a normal room on Friday night, Thursday was completely sold out at the stage I finished my call (around 11am island time, which is noon EST)

[Winston Tsang]

The answer is simple:

If the goal is to make as many people happy as possible, the people sharing rooms to the max need to go first and then down the line.

People going solo will get the short end of the stick but that's what happens when you maximize the number of people staying at the Kalahari.

Execution is a different issue.

[David Stanek]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Winston Tsang <wins...@umich.edu> wrote:

The answer is simple:

If the goal is to make as many people happy as possible, the people sharing rooms to the max need to go first and then down the line.

People going solo will get the short end of the stick but that's what happens when you maximize the number of people staying at the Kalahari.

Execution is a different issue.

I guess the Codemash board has to decide the actual goal. In my mind it's to optimize space at the Kalahari while still being fair. Penalizing solos and families is not fair. 

[Chris Scarberry]

I couldn't get through from North Carolina.

--

[Rob Peterson]

Not complaining, but it would be a good idea for next year if you put in the hotel reservation description on the ticket or at least make it clear somewhere that the code mash discount at Khalahari or the secret code only works until they are at 85% capacity if that is, in fact, one of the terms of the contract.  I was one of the last people to get through and had to pay full price.  Again not complaining, I'm just happy to have gotten a room and it would have been less awkward for me and the reservation agent (who was awesome by the way) if I had known in advance.

I appreciate everything the organizers and Kalahari do.  See you in January. 

 

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:44 PM, yllams <ylla...@gmail.com> wrote:

Last year the people that were complaining were people that hadn't been there before and didn't plan ahead...this year just about everyone is complaining.  Like tickets being alumni gives you an advantage, last year it gave you the advantage to know to get your hotel early and you get your tix early.  Why should that change being alumni should give you the advantage on hotel room buy as well.  

The room share is great for people not planning on bringing family but again Kalahari's draw is that I want to bring my family and don't want to share a room.  Beyond that while I might be willing to share a room with someone I know, I'm an adult and have zero interest in sharing with someone I don't know and shouldn't be punished from getting a room because of that.

On Friday, October 10, 2014 2:07:59 PM UTC-4, Jason Follas wrote:

Just to add to the things that cannot change while brainstorming:

- We won't change the venue. The Kalahari itself as a backdrop is as much a part of Codemash as the speakers, sponsors, staff, and audience. You could put on an identical conference somewhere else, but it would not be Codemash.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Amitai Schlair <sch...@schmonz.com> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Ellie Chalko
<ellie_...@cynergies.net> wrote:

> A different venue would fix it...

A different venue would likely claim to fix it. Perhaps they would
succeed, perhaps not. Do we know how that's different from what likely
occurred with the Kalahari today? If the organizers were to choose a
different venue, what tradeoffs would that entail? I could offer some
guesses. The surest one would probably be the cost of attendance.

Of course, if CodeMash became expensive, that would be one way to ease
the registration bottlenecks.

I hear your frustration. It took me more than two hours to not be able
to stay at the Kalahari; not a great user experience. I would suggest
we keep in mind that we don't see and don't know the many difficult
tradeoffs the organizers have undertaken to make on our behalf, and
that if we care about this event, we should try harder to show care
for the people who bring it to us. I don't know any of them, but I
guarantee you they're doing their best to show care for us.

- Amitai

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Peter Smith]

Oh, was that today?

--
Peter Smith
psmith...@gmail.com

[Amos Oshrin]

I am also Ohio. I got in on the local Sandusky number (419.433.7200). This was after many hundreds of tries (10+ tries per minute, with breaks for email and such), alternating the 877 and the 419 numbers. After finally getting through over an hour later, I selected 1 for reservations and got in the phone queue. I eventually left my call-back number and got called back by someone from their call center in the Central time zone.

 

I doubt that the choice of number makes a difference, since it still took me well over an hour to get through, alternating the 2 numbers at a rapid redial rate.

--

[Jason Follas]

Unsure why that person was charged full price. The contract that we asked for this year was 100% for Wednesday and Thursday (so every room in the hotel was supposed to be discounted). Now, perhaps things like Presidential Suites, etc, are not included in our group discount.

If you were charged full price today, then please get in contact with the CodeMash organizers (i.e., regist...@codemash.org or in...@codemash.org) so we can investigate.

[Greg Dzezinski]

If the idea is to favor alumni then rooms should become available as tickets are sold.  We are talking about people that are going out of their way to be online at a specific minute (twice) to get a ticket and a hotel room.  It doesn't make sense to sell tickets in two distinct groups but not do the same for hotel reservations.

I personally started calling at 10 am and defaulted to reserving a room online at 11:30.

[Kevin A. Mitchell]

I know you guys are doing your best. Thanks for asking for feedback.

I missed part of a professional conference to spend two hours not getting a room, then it took some time for my stress to subside. Turns out that I almost got the last three Lodge rooms for my team (who also spent hours calling), but while we were setting it up, my operator lost them to another operator.

The only fair way is to institute a lottery system for the constrained resource. Sign up for a ticket, and you get into a lottery to get one room to go with that ticket. Maybe you can pool N tickets to bid for an N bedroom suite, and if that fails, each ticket is entered into the single room lottery. Win the lottery, get a unique code to give the Kalahari.

It takes out all the things that make the situation unfair...the telephone company's routing protocols, the way alternate numbers get you into the system, possible unfairness in the hold queue, dropped calls, technological failure, human error, people booking many rooms at once, gaming the call times, etc. It really should not come down to people having to hack the system.

Plus, a lottery lets you control the random variables to keep them fair.

It also lets people have their lives back. You either win or you don't, you get an email, and then you have maybe a week to redeem your reservation at a time that works for your schedule. Kalahari doesn't have 2000 people trying to call at the same time, and can probably just use normal staffing. If you don't redeem your room, after a week it gets randomly given to somebody that didn't win the lottery.

Apple ended up doing this with WWDC 2014, after WWDC 2013 sold out in 30 seconds. Many people (including me) lost out in 2013 because of server errors that can't be fixed in 30 seconds. Spreading the window over a week allows human time scales to fix the system.

Kevin

[Greg Dzezinski]

I firmly believe that you should have the option to purchase a room at the time you are purchasing a ticket. CodeMash clearly aims to favor alumni by offer an early registration. So why would hotel reservations be any different?

[Duane Collicott]

I think a system that allows people to get a room without hitting redial for two hours would be good, and I'm guessing the organizers agree and will enact improvement, as they do year after year. However, I'm hoiping they woin't ever find an interest in forcing people to room together. My room is my space for the week. After sessions I go back there and do some exercises in what I just learned that day, perhaps learn some more about thoe topic online, and do some job work as well. Also, my family joins me part way through the week so there simply isn't room for anybody else.

 

I realize the family-joining-at-the-conference concept is unusual, but it has been a part of this event from the beginning. CodeMash is not other conferences, in this wany and others. This is why it's so puopular.

 

I have had a room at Kalahari every year since year zero, but my family and I understand and accept that next year I may end up off-site.

 

[Brendan Enrick]

It doesn't sound like it's bad, but there is a big downside. Every year, I talk with students who are attending CodeMash. Those are the attendees I am most impressed with see there! Not everyone is there on their employer's dime, and these are often people with limited means trying to start their careers off right. I think we should encourage more young minds to attend the event!

One thing that makes CodeMash great is that it's open and affordable for people to attend. Very few multi-day conferences can achieve what CodeMash has. Let's not lose it. :-D

Brendan

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Michael Letterle
Sent: 10/10/2014 1:42 PM
To: code...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [CodeMash] Re: Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

Paying a premium for early access to room reservation (with a limited amount of premium tickets) doesn't sound like a bad idea...

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Scott Williams <dargo...@gmail.com> wrote:

This not an easy problem to solve.  Honestly, the "real" answer to this is for the Kalahari to have more rooms, period.

If this wasn't an indoor water park with all of the after hours activities, this wouldn't be an issue, there would be people that would seek out satellite hotels  just to save some money.  The problem is that everyone wants to stay in the Resort, and that just isn't possible.

Room sharing is a fine idea, except that because of the venue (and the appeal of codemash in general) many people bring their families with them.  There may be 2000 people there for the conference, but how many are actually at the Kalahari for that week, I'm guessing closer to 4-5 thousand.

I understand people who are frustrated that some booked hotel rooms before even buying a ticket in the past couple of years, but IMO, this was not a better experience than last year.

Without being able to add more rooms to the Kalahari, the simple laws of supply and demand may need to be applied here.  Ticket with Kalahari reservation code will cost X+Y, ticket without Kalahari code will only cost X.  Problem is, Y is going to need to be fairly significant.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CodeMash" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to codemash+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to code...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/codemash.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Michael Letterle
----------//-----------
http://blog.prokrams.com

[James Bender]

The problem is that as a group we are fixated on finding a solution that is (at least perceived as) "fair to all." We have to accept that no such solution may exist. No matter what is done somebody somewhere is going to feel screwed over.

I'm all for finding something that works better, but people need to remember that life is not fair and sometimes we don't get what we want. I've had to stay at off-site hotels for conferences before. Yeah, it sucks but it's not the end of the world. Regardless of where you lay your head at night, you get out of every conference what you put in. Try not to let having to stay off-site discourage you.

Just my $0.02

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Brendan Enrick
Sent: ‎10/‎11/‎2014 12:48 AM
To: code...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [CodeMash] Re: Suggestion thread for improving the 2016 Hotel Reservation process

[StephenAndMandy Cleary]

I've been reading Basic Economics (by Thomas Sowell) - an excellent
book - and it's interesting how perfectly this experience matches
price controls in a free-market society.

Specifically, the special CodeMash room rates are acting as a form of
price control.

Price control has several results, inevitable in the long term:
1) It encourages hoarding (consuming more than you need). In this
case, many single people are staying in rooms with 2+ beds.
2) It discourages production. In this case, Kalahari is not interested
in adding another wing of rooms - or any other way they could assist -
at a lower-than-market price.
3) As an indirect result of the first two results, price control
causes a shortage. This is often surprising (at least, it was to me),
but it is an eventual, indirect result of price control.

And, of course, shortages cause long wait times and a discontented
populace. Note that price controls cause a shortage, not a scarcity.

The socialist approach to solving a shortage is either political
favoritism (e.g., alumni get in first) or random (e.g., lottery). The
free market approach is to remove the price control - in this case,
let the Kalahari charge whatever they want.

So, I think we should at least consider removing the CodeMash special
rates. And yes, this will be an contentious choice, because price
controls are very political - they help (individuals) even when they
hurt (people as a whole).


However, there will be consequences:
- With the room rates nearly doubling, that would discourage The Poor
- in this case, individuals who pay their own way. However, I believe
this would be offset by two factors: first, a lot more room sharing
would result (economically encouraging better resource distribution);
and second, off-site hotel usage would increase.
- This would also discourage Family attendance. Families aren't as
capable of room sharing as individuals are. Off-site hotels are still
an option, but I would expect overall family usage to decline.

Of those two, the effect on Families is more disconcerting to me
personally (full disclosure: I've always brought my family). But a
free market does not mean you can't incentivize. If CodeMash wants to
incentivize KidzMash, one simple approach is to provide discounts (or
credits) for KidzMash registrations - and make up those funds via
increased ticket prices.

Speaking of which, CodeMash is a premium conference without premium
prices. This may not be sustainable in the long term. CM already
appears really cheap compared to Kalahari, and that disparity would
only increase if we remove the price controls. I think higher CM
prices combined with lower-cost off-site hotels would be an acceptable
combination for many who have chosen the Kalahari in previous years.


To summarize:
1) Free the market. Allow the Kalahari to charge as much as they want.
2) Incentivize as necessary.

The current system of price control helped build critical mass; but
now it's no longer necessary (and actually causing problems).

-Steve (Cleary)

P.S. More about price controls:
http://books.google.com/books?id=hQX6-P0N2nUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=basic+economics+thomas+sowell&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Rxs5VNS6LtH_yQT28YLACQ&ved=0CCsQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
(page 39).

[Eric Kepes]

+1 billion

[Eric Gurney]

+1

[Chadrick Mahaffey]

I'm in favor of free market but if you don't do free market, what about a weighted lottery. Room shares and full week attendees get weighted higher (more chances to win). Maybe also consider non lotto winners from previous years as another chance in the pool. Eventually your chances are pretty high you will get a room. This would require quite a tool to make this possible. Fun in my opinion... Perhaps a open source project we could all get involved with?

[doug...@gmail.com]

Agreed.  Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  CodeMash is an awesome event, have fun.

Sent from Windows Mail

From: James Bender
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎October‎ ‎11‎, ‎2014 ‎8‎:‎27‎ ‎AM
To: code...@googlegroups.com

The problem is that as a group we are fixated on finding a solution that is (at least perceived as) "fair to all." We have to accept that no such solution may exist. No matter what is done somebody somewhere is going to feel screwed over.

I'm all for finding something that works better, but people need to remember that life is not fair and sometimes we don't get what we want. I've had to stay at off-site hotels for conferences before. Yeah, it sucks but it's not the end of the world. Regardless of where you lay your head at night, you get out of every conference what you put in. Try not to let having to stay off-site discourage you.

Just my $0.02

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Brendan Enrick
Sent: 10/11/2014 12:48 AM

[David Stanek]

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 8:32 AM, StephenAndMandy Cleary <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:

To summarize:
1) Free the market. Allow the Kalahari to charge as much as they want.
2) Incentivize as necessary.

The current system of price control helped build critical mass; but
now it's no longer necessary (and actually causing problems).

I actually think this is great.  I was thinking an incentive to share would be the conference fee, but having a higher room price is a much more natural solution.  

[Kenneth LeFebvre]

It's not the end of the world to stay at another hotel... I've done it several times.

The only demographics that I think would be significantly impacted by having to stay off site, are the families with young children or those with physical challenges.  

My opinion is that we should focus on improving the efficiency of the reservation process already in place (e.g., put it online),  and maybe making sure the shuttle service is up to par (I always drove myself,  so I don't know if it needs any attention).

My 2 cents...

[Peter Ritchie]

Anyone who has to fly in ;)

On Friday, October 10, 2014 12:35:51 PM UTC-4, James Bender wrote:

Define “out-of-towner.” If it’s everyone who doesn’t live within 10 miles of the venue that’s got to about about 99% of the attendees.