Re: Can I safely put that Clojure will Primarily remain a JVM language in the future as it is now?

[Andy Fingerhut]

Such questions make one wonder "Why are you asking?"

For example, if it is simply curiosity, then I would answer that Clojure's primary platform has been the JVM since before it was released 5 years ago, and there are no signs I have seen that the developers who add features to and fix bugs in Clojure have any plans to discontinue doing so.

If you are asking because you want some kind of guarantee that Clojure 1.4 will still be around 5 years from now, the answer is that it will, as will Clojure 1.3, and 1.2.1, etc., because they have all been released under the Eclipse public license, and as long as you don't violate the terms of that license you can continue using them as you wish.

It seems likely that Clojure 1.5 will be released in less than 6 months, if not significantly earlier.  I have no inside information on this -- just that once 1.3-beta1 and 1.4-beta1 were released, it was less than 6 months before 1.3 and 1.4 were released, and 1.5-beta1 has been out for a month.

If you are asking because you want some kind of assurance that Clojure 1.6, 1.7, etc. will be released on some particular schedule, then I'd suggest attempting to make a contract with the people responsible for making those releases.  I have no idea if they are open to making such a contract with you, or how much money they would want to do so.

If you are looking for something other than those, it might help to explain better what you are looking for.  Some kind of verbal promise from the developers?  Forever is a long time, as I would imagine "virtually forever" is, too.

Andy

On Nov 24, 2012, at 6:31 AM, Leon Adler wrote:

Hi,

JVM is known to be a robust, reliable and optimised platform for development and deployment. Rich Hicky's decision to develop Clojure on the JVM is fantastic, and it's delightfull to see it grow on the JVM as its primary platform.

Yeah, as a matter of fact JVM is the primary platform for the development of Clojure; Also Major institutions and people project Clojure as a JVM language (Heroku, for example), Clojurescript also requires the JVM....

My Question is :

Will Clojure be known as the JVM language* in future, as it is known today? Will the JVM remain the primary Clojure platform in the distant future? (Virtually forever?)

*When I think of Scala or Groovy, I get a feeling that they will still be known as JVM languages in the future, as they are now. What about Clojure? Can I safely put Clojure in the league of Scala?

-Leon Adler

[David Nolen]

ClojureScript dev is actively working towards Clojure sans JVM.

On Saturday, November 24, 2012, Leon Adler wrote:

Hi,

JVM is known to be a robust, reliable and optimised platform for development and deployment. Rich Hicky's decision to develop Clojure on the JVM is fantastic, and it's delightfull to see it grow on the JVM as its primary platform.

Yeah, as a matter of fact JVM is the primary platform for the development of Clojure; Also Major institutions and people project Clojure as a JVM language (Heroku, for example), Clojurescript also requires the JVM....

My Question is :

Will Clojure be known as the JVM language* in future, as it is known today? Will the JVM remain the primary Clojure platform in the distant future? (Virtually forever?)

*When I think of Scala or Groovy, I get a feeling that they will still be known as JVM languages in the future, as they are now. What about Clojure? Can I safely put Clojure in the league of Scala?

-Leon Adler

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[Laurent PETIT]

You probably meant "towards ClojureScript sans JVM" ;-)

2012/11/25 David Nolen <dnolen...@gmail.com>:

[David Nolen]

Nope.

[Laurent PETIT]

Are you talking about the compiler, or the runtime ?

What does "Clojure sans JVM" mean for those targetting the JVM without
that being an "implementation detail" ? :-)

[David Nolen]

I'm talking about a community supported set of tools to support bootstrapping a Clojure compiler for whatever target you happen to care about.

[Leon Adler]

This post was not meant for any queries on the release schedules of the various Clojure versions, but for a curious question -- "Will Clojure (take all the upcomming versions back-to-back) remain to be known as the JVM language anytime in the future?". You can say, that this question arises from curiosity :), but there is more.

Lets' take Scala (scala runs on CLR too, but is still known as the JVM language, and it seems, will remain so) or Groovy. Nobody assured me about their future, but somewhere I know, that they will remain to be developed as the ''JVM languages''. Can I put Clojure in their league?

[Leon Adler]

You are probably talking about Clojure in Clojure? Right ?

Here I am talking about the version of the future which will be
developed and used and supported by Rich Hickey et al. Will that not
remain on top of the JVM??

On Nov 24, 9:01 pm, David Nolen <dnolen.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm talking about a community supported set of tools to support
> bootstrapping a Clojure compiler for whatever target you happen to care
> about.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 24, 2012, Laurent PETIT wrote:
> > Are you talking about the compiler, or the runtime ?
>
> > What does "Clojure sans JVM" mean for those targetting the JVM without
> > that being an "implementation detail" ? :-)
>

> > 2012/11/25 David Nolen <dnolen.li...@gmail.com>:

> > > Nope.
>
> > > On Saturday, November 24, 2012, Laurent PETIT wrote:
>
> > >> You probably meant "towards ClojureScript sans JVM" ;-)
>

> > >> 2012/11/25 David Nolen <dnolen.li...@gmail.com>:

[Michael Klishin]

2012/11/25 Leon Adler <leon....@gmail.com>

Here I am talking about the version of the future which will be
developed and used and supported by Rich Hickey et al. Will that not
remain on top of the JVM??

Clojure on the JVM is not going anywhere: the vast majority of production deployments

run on it, books cover it, all new development happens in JVM Clojure, many widely

used libraries assume JVM or directly rely on Java libraries.

--
MK

http://github.com/michaelklishin
http://twitter.com/michaelklishin

[Leon Adler]

So, JVM will officially remain the primary platform for further future
developments on and of the language?

[Michael Klishin]

2012/11/25 Leon Adler <leon....@gmail.com>

So, JVM will officially remain the primary platform for further future
developments on and of the language?

There is no "official primary platform" as far as I know. If your concern

is whether Clojure will be available on the JVM, it's unimaginable that it won't.

It's open source software, what matters is what is used, not what is "official".

[Leon Adler]

By official, I meant, the most 'in development' version, with most of
the community following... Will that change in the case of the JVM
version?

On Nov 25, 3:17 am, Michael Klishin <michael.s.klis...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> 2012/11/25 Leon Adler <leon.ad...@gmail.com>

[Michael Klishin]

2012/11/25 Leon Adler <leon....@gmail.com>

By official, I meant, the most 'in development' version, with most of
the community following...

That is JVM Clojure today.

[Leon Adler]

Will that change? If yes, to what? Parrot? Or CLR?

On Nov 25, 3:45 am, Michael Klishin <michael.s.klis...@gmail.com>

wrote:
> 2012/11/25 Leon Adler <leon.ad...@gmail.com>
>

[Sean Corfield]

The questions really don't make sense. No one can really give you a guarantee it will always be a JVM language first and foremost. Yes, it is today. That's about all anyone can tell you.

Why does it matter?

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--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

[Andy Fingerhut]

On Nov 24, 2012, at 9:24 PM, Leon Adler wrote:

This post was not meant for any queries on the release schedules of the various Clojure versions, but for a curious question -- "Will Clojure (take all the upcomming versions back-to-back) remain to be known as the JVM language anytime in the future?". You can say, that this question arises from curiosity :), but there is more.

Lets' take Scala (scala runs on CLR too, but is still known as the JVM language, and it seems, will remain so) or Groovy. Nobody assured me about their future, but somewhere I know, that they will remain to be developed as the ''JVM languages''. Can I put Clojure in their league?

Leon:

Here is a suggestion.  Take the mental process by which you did this: "Nobody assured me about their future, but somewhere I know, that they will remain to be developed as the "JVM languages".'

Do a replacement of the words Scala and Groovy with Clojure in that mental process, and Bob's your uncle.

Somehow I just know that this will work.

Andy

[Leon Adler]

Thanks Andy. I will do that..... :)
Thank you all.

[Leon Adler]

When I asked my close friend, he answered that till there's a j in clojure, stay calm.

Thank you all again.