Fire safety

[Brad Walsh]

I volunteered (at least that is what they told me) to work on the Hive's fire safety.

I'd like to start this thread with some ideas, feel free to add on and make suggestions.

Of course if you do a "drive by" with just lots of work they you also may be "voluntold". 😀

I'd like to dig into the existing sprinkler system that we have at the Hive. Is it working? I'm assuming the owner knows something about it. This is by far the best thing to have since it is automatic and can really help minimize the growth of a fire. Is the system we have just full of dead beetles or has it been maintained?

Next I'd like to contact the Fire House down the street. They may be open to giving a fire safety talk and maybe even a live fire extinguishing training. (fun)

We could use the Firehouse to do a walk through and give us help on how to approach things from a fire safety standpoint. Not as much an inspection but a, walk through. Most of these folks are more than happy to give advice.

I'd also like to setup annual inspections on the existing fire extinguishers. Grabbing a dead fire extinguisher when you need a live one is a bad thing. This may involve recharging/replacing some of the ones around the Hive. Most places have an annual sticker on each extinguisher.

We also talked about making the existing fire extinguishers more visible. Perhaps red/white striped tape or a FIRE EXTINGUISHER sign over each one?

Tape off the floor to indicate the fire lane that can't be blocked by anything. (Including PTDR stuff).

The Flammable cabinet and Fire bucket is a great start. I feel safer already.

Thanks,

Brad "not on fire" Walsh

[Andrew]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 2:57:08 PM UTC-5, BradmanOH wrote:

We also talked about making the existing fire extinguishers more visible. Perhaps red/white striped tape or a FIRE EXTINGUISHER sign over each one?

There is already a sign over the one in the dirty room, and also the one in the woodshop.

[wi...@hive13.org]

I'm down to help out with this Brad. Fire saftey is both important and can be fun.   One of the best trainings i have ever had was a fire safety class at an industrial arts center. had both fire extinguisher training, and flaming performer training. 

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 2:57:08 PM UTC-5, BradmanOH wrote:

[mhorn...@yahoo.com]

Work is often a dirty word. The sprinkler heads are all shiny-er than the 30 year old ones we've been removing from service on leaking dry side systems in our building (work) lately. I'd say they redid the system when they rented the building. That being said, money being money, There are likely abandoned old (not functioning) lines here and there. Which is gonna make a lot of stuff confusing.  Odds are the crucial controls and gauges are within one of the locked building owner areas. It's likely gotta be inspected and flushed anually, Odds are if the pipes do not go to sewer, they go outside... Likely at least a 2 inch outlet at full blast when draining.

The last time a place I worked at called in the fire department for a friendly looksie and talk... well, they had stuff we had to fix, or get a citation, and they were not kidding nor friendly.

On the dry chemical, they should be shaken monthly if I recall. Something about the powder turning brick like if not. Unknown history over a year? Better to recharge via a service imo.

Fire bucket wise, the key incompatibility is linseed... Given that dumping/empty nightly still goes to a big hopper outside or is sometimes skipped, might be a good idea to have one just for linseed and natural oils.


Hey, keeo in mind people pointing out work are just helping with the noodle power on the project. Gotta noodle things over.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 2:57:08 PM UTC-5, BradmanOH wrote:

[Andrew]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 5:45:03 PM UTC-5, mhorn...@yahoo.com wrote:

The last time a place I worked at called in the fire department for a friendly looksie and talk... well, they had stuff we had to fix, or get a citation, and they were not kidding nor friendly.

Yeah, I think the FD came through about a year back, and forced the Hive to buy a nice fire cabinet (which was a good thing).

[Timothy Gregg]

Good thing we keep all of our fire in a cabinet.

[Andrew]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 6:10:52 PM UTC-5, Timothy Gregg wrote:

Good thing we keep all of our fire in a cabinet.

LOL.  You joke, but it's that pretty much what a fire place is?

[Timothy Gregg]

Well, I didn't hang my stockings there.  Should I have?

[Brad Walsh]

Stupid flammable stuff. Everything should be metal. 

Well, maybe not Magnesium. 😳

Brad

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Thanks, Brad

[Timothy Gregg]

Everything has a kindling temperature I thought... even metal. I dunno though that's Tiffanies expertise.

[Andrew]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 7:29:50 PM UTC-5, BradmanOH wrote:

Stupid flammable stuff. Everything should be metal. 

Here's an aluminum fire.  WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW ?!?!?!?!?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEhC5dyY_Uk

[Brad Walsh]

 The best part was the car 6 feet away that would've blown up had the fire gotten out of control.

Would've been a Darwin Award. 

Now find me a 1000 acre wild metal fire 🔥 

Oh wait. . . . 

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Thanks, Brad

[Andrew]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 8:55:40 PM UTC-5, BradmanOH wrote:

Now find me a 1000 acre wild metal fire 🔥 

Oh wait. . . . 

Yeah, 'cause metal doesn't make itself for free.  Unless you think rust is a useful thing.

How about a 100 year old coal fire?

[Kevin S]

Lol I do volunteer at the Colerain fire dept. I can gladly have some guys come down and go over stuff. Given the amount of cardboard filled with different plastics and rubber anything that seems like it is out of control WORK ON AN EXIT PLAN. The fumes and smoke although we have high ceilings could change for the worse very quickly... Given the proximity of the station around the corner if it can't be knocked down quickly with dry Chem if there is 2 people there one puts a call in no matter what and the other takes action. It's better to put it out and have them show up rather than it spread quickly and not mske the call till out of hand. We have a company that fills and services extinguishers in Cincinnati so even if we invested in some nice serviceable units there will be quality. 

Of course if it's a small electric fire a co2 would be optimal....or halon if we put the money out :) We dont need to sprinkle the majic dust EVERYWHERE...Or we could just go all out with a pressure foam fill :)

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[Brad Walsh]

I would argue coal is a bunch of dead trees. 

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Thanks, Brad

[Timothy Gregg]

I went around and checked all the gauges on the fire extinguishers a little over a month ago, I do recall that there was one that was definitely no good. I don't know if Kaylee reads the mailing list but she suggested it originally so I left it in her hands. 😁

[Brad Walsh]

Not so much activity on this thread for a week or so.

I'll commit to refreshing the existing fire extinguishers. If we have a bad one, we should replace it.

I totally up to getting a walk through with a fire inspector. If Kevin could connect me with some of his peeps that would be cool.

I got a suggestion to lay some visible tape down on the floor to identify a "no crap" zone for exit access. Sounds like a great idea. I think there is some red striped tape in the shelf or holding. (We may need to get some more).

Is there a way for us to ask the owners if their sprinkler system is maintained? I don't want to poke a Hornet's nest so maybe someone can guide me.

I think a basic review of safety/fire procedures during a meeting would be cool. (Of course we should go over them before giving the review 😀)

One way I think of fire safety is to imagine I light a flare and toss it into an area. What would you do? (run away screaming is not really the answer) And then think what would happen. Is there a pile of sawdust or rags that would light off?

Anyway, not trying to be be downer uncle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owJsHhYX7aI

Thanks,

Brad

[Ian Wilson]

Two things that I think would help:

1.) Basic Fire safety classes offered to new members as part of the onboarding process.  Go over things like PASS, flammable storage, etc etc etc.

2.) A local fire alarm.

Ian

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[Timothy Gregg]

If you are going to go over P.A.S.S. sounds kinda essential you cover R.A.C.E. as well.

[Brad Walsh]

Ha. 

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Thanks, Brad

[Andrew (Woodshop Warden)]

I totally up to getting a walk through with a fire inspector. If Kevin could connect me with some of his peeps that would be cool.

There's a firehouse around the corner.  Seems like we should just go knock on the door.  We also should probably ask them about the venting outside, new dust collection.
 

One way I think of fire safety is to imagine I light a flare and toss it into an area. What would you do? (run away screaming is not really the answer)

Sorry, I don't understand why not.  First, getting away from the fire sounds like a good idea, second, screaming alerts other people.  Not messing with you, I don't get it.  Sure using the extinguisher makes sense if the fire is very small, but otherwise it seems like a job for the pros.

[Brad Walsh]

Just kidding around. 

Actually getting away is a good idea but panicking is usually a bad idea. 😳

I'd be happy to talk to the firehouse down the street but they may not be setup as an inspector. 

Brad

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Thanks, Brad

[Kevin S]

Now if hive members are willing to drive up to Colerain I can likely schedule a day at the burn tower and let everyone get hands on with a fire extinguisher putting out an electronic , wood, or petrol fire. Katie and I run the classes up there. 

Andrew if it's cool with you I'll get with you Tuesday and get a count on what extinguishers we have, need serviced, or need to buy. Then we can swing by one of the days or I might be able to just drop them off at the station and have them send a bill to the hive. I can promise the prices worked out with them are very good because we do it off of bids and it will be piggy backed of the dept contract hopefully.... I might even have funds with the fire department to donate stuff since we do programs for the community. Let's get the ball rolling this week coming up?

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[Kevin S]

Brad, I might have some of that ultra reflective adhesive tape up at the township Depot or one of the fire house we stick to the work trucks and equipment, it's the really bright retro reflective stuff that works awesome with an emergency light. If the hive is willing we can either go with the guys around the corner with the Cincinnati department or I can have myself katie and some of the township guys do a medical and fire talk separated by s month. I do have cat tourniquets and compression dressing for if you had a large laceration down at the high from the ptdr. It would likely be best to teach people how to use them. I always banked on my dad, katie, or I being at a ptdr event if someone got an unwanted saw brarrow ; ) (credit to Ryan for saw brarrow)

[Andrew (Woodshop Warden)]

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 2:06:41 AM UTC-5, Kevin Schuler wrote:

Now if hive members are willing to drive up to Colerain I can likely schedule a day at the burn tower and let everyone get hands on with a fire extinguisher putting out an electronic , wood, or petrol fire. Katie and I run the classes up there. 

Sounds awesome!  I'd love to learn how to use a fire extinguisher.
 

Andrew if it's cool with you I'll get with you Tuesday and get a count on what extinguishers we have, need serviced, or need to buy.

That's fine.  FWIW, I think Jim has stated he thinks our land lord should be taking care of this.  He might be right, but I'd rather the hive spend a few bucks than have a big problem.

Fire Extinguishers:
Kitchen - Pole next to trashcan
Fablab - At workstation (CO2 canister)
Woodshop - Pole under dust collector (brand new)
Dirty Room - Next to door.

Electronics - Between the two bays closest to the dirty room

So we've got three that potentially need to be recharged, one new one.  Also might be nice to put up a hook for the CO2 canister, I get the feeling it wanders around the fab lab, having no permanent home.

[Kevin S]

I have a co2 tank in my storage from when I had the auto repair shop. It was not huge but also not paintball sized. I am wanting to pipe that into the lazer cutter and have a manual valve on it along with a pressure regulator. If a fire were to start in the laser cutter it would be a lot more productive to purge it from the inside without lifting the lid and giving it a fresh breath of oxygen. It would also contain things from blowing out of the machine with the lid open and spring pressurized CO2 into it.

If we get a chance to figure out if garden street maintains the equipment extinguisher wise we could likely ask who does the refills and maintenance for the systems they use at the business and take them there ourselves to speed the process up. Then just have them billed. If the hive is ok with it I can put a formal letter into the department so they can allocate materials and look into teaching a dam good hands on fire class at the hive? I will be at the meeting to get the ball rolling with that the first Thursday of February.

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[Kevin S]

They know the work we do and a few people swung by the chemistry classes and maker faire so the likely hood of them being able to do something good would be high.

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[Brad Walsh]

OK still not a lot of activity.

I'll commit to putting down the Fire Lane tape (Kevin could you get me a roll or two of that reflective tape?)

I got distracted in the last meeting so I missed auditing the fire extinguishers. Sounds like we need to recharge at least one. (once again - Kevin would you like to be involved?)

The fire safety training up at Colrain sounds awesome! (once again - Kevin, would you like to connect with them to arrange a training - in the Spring/summer I assume).

Sounds like a lot of Kevin is involved. Wonder if he ever worked with the Fire people  . . . . .

If anyone else has any ideas please feel free to post on this thread.

Thanks,

Brad

[Kevin S]

I have my meeting today now* Thursday up at the fire department and I'm going to get the ball rolling. I will bring up the issues we are looking at across the board :)

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[mhorn...@yahoo.com]

One I have been mullling over... my work rents a building, and we are responsible for upkeep. This includes our sprinkler system. This years state inspection we learned that the rules changed a month after our last inspection. This year, we had to have hard copy on hand of which specific detector was tested and when. Small problem... our vendor for this just records that it was done. So... this was a stumper for a fellow running a company that services two dozen nursing homes, and about a hundred other major buildings... None of which he was recording this data for, this being the first day he heard of the requirement.  And this paperwork requirement? Every bit as much of a serious violation as if the whole shebang was out of spec. Luckily, the inspector was rational and reasonable, and after only an hour of discussing it with all involved wanted those records in place for next inspection. I am not sure there were competing departments in the government wanting differing information, but it is part of the puzzle that there may be competing jurisdictions.

The other thing I learned that directly applies is Cinci the city is under a differing inspection regime than Ohio the state, because cinci was a city before Ohio was a state... So, for all issues for the sprinklers and such, it would be best to speak directly with the Cinci Folks... whichever department/marshal that might be. If the fire department is within that chain, who-ho!! they can save us from major violations and headache.

I'm pretty sure if the lease stipulates we maintain it, we've got to have access to a closet somewhere jam packed with pipes and valves. I'm also pretty sure it would not have slipped under the radar, so my bet is the landlord is maintaining it. I hope it is not an air over water system... because the yearly cycle and the slow leaks mean the pipes rust out... A good portion of my job is fishing the old pipes out of the attic once they have been cut out and replaced.

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[mhorn...@yahoo.com]

Man, we've been in the attic over a week looking for air leaks. Turns out the accelerator needs a rebuild, and is dumping air and water out the drain(s). Unfortunately, this also means things that should be filled with air, are therefore also filled with said water. A rebuild kit and a new thingerdoody are the same price for some reason. Otherwise our patches are holding like champs. What is striking me however is at the hive, one section looks like new sprinkler heads, and the annex looks like they are older than ours (30 years) by the oxidation state of the brass. I'd be worth checking if the annex's systems were updated/modernized... and if so, which control location is theirs. It's even money that they are separate imo.

[John2pt0]

Brad:

What is the status of the Hive fire safety protocol?

I was thinking of including info on it in the CNC lecture, since,  CNC routers can start fires (though I have not yet seen one, happily).

John2pt0

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 2:57:08 PM UTC-5, BradmanOH wrote:

I volunteered (at least that is what they told me) to work on the Hive's fire safety.

Thanks,

Brad "not on fire" Walsh

[Brad Walsh]

I haven't done much. Thanks for the gentle push.

I did track down the sprinklers and it looks like they have been updated in the last decade.

We should get and inventory of our extinguishers and mark their locations better.

I'll bring it up in the meeting tonight.

Thanks,

Brad

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