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Canada's Unmuzzled Scientists Call for Protection From Future Muzzling
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gordo
Mar 9, 2016, 10:29:55 PM3/9/16
to
"It already feels like a long time ago.
Remember way, way back when Canada’s federal scientists were shackled
to their laboratory tables, unable to speak out or walk freely in the
light of day?
I don’t mean to sound trivial; the war on science in Canada was real
and severe in its implications and in some places devastating in its
consequences.
But looking back on what Canadians are calling the ‘dark decade’
already feels ridiculous somehow, like it’s a caricature of our past
reality. How did things get so bad?
http://desmog.ca/2016/03/09/canada-s-unmuzzled-scientists-call-protection-future-muzzling
That’s something the scientific community at large is asking itself,
in a serious attempt to prevent ideology-driven, anti-science policies
from taking root once again.
“Science should never be silenced again,” Debi Daviau, president of
the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada (PIPSC), a
union representing more than 15,000 federal scientists, said in a
statement released Wednesday.
PIPSC, as well as the science-advocacy group Evidence for Democracy
(E4D), released an open letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as
well as to science ministers Kirsty Duncan and Navdeep Bains,
requesting policies be put in place to protect the scientific
integrity of Canada’s public employees.
(Full disclosure: I recently became a volunteer member of Evidence for
Democracy's board of directors.)
The two groups say they commend the Liberal government for restoring
the mandatory long-form census in Canada as well as lifting strict
communications procedures that prevented federal scientists from
speaking to the media or the public without upper level bureaucratic
oversight.
In the joint letter released today, the groups are calling on the
government to take their effort to restore scientific integrity in
Canada a step further.
“The government clearly supports science integrity — now we need them
to safeguard it from future attacks,” Katie Gibbs, executive director
of E4D, said
“Creating strong science integrity policies in all federal
science-based departments will go a long way to ensuring that
critically important government research is available to the public
and used in policy development.”
The letter also requests scientific integrity provisions be added to
collective bargaining agreements, to ensure federal employees have an
enshrined right to work and communicate freely without fear of
censure.
According to Daviau, having clear rules in place for scientists is
critical for the restoration of scientific integrity at the federal
level.
“By including the right of scientists to speak in collective
agreements we can ensure there exists a consistent policy and a
binding process to resolve disputes as well as prevent in future the
kind of chill imposed by communications policies under the Harper
government,” she said.
The open letter comes just one day after the release of a report from
the Institute for Research on Public Policy and the Canadian Academy
of Engineering that calls for the better use of science in the
creation of public policy.
“As governments grapple with evermore complex policy problems, science
and technology must play a bigger role in providing an evidence base
for decisions and supporting government efforts to manage risk and
uncertainty,” Pierre Lortie, president of the Canadian Academy of
Engineering, said in a release.
The report calls on the Liberal government to foster informed debate
by making research used in decision-making more readily available to
the public, to strengthen internal decision-making policy, establish a
national science advisory board and build bridges between
parliamentarians and the scientific community.
Graham Fox, president of the Institute for Research on Public Policy,
notes scientific evidence is meant to play a role in decisions, but
that other factors are always taken into consideration.
“Of course, evidence should weigh heavily in the balance, but it will
not necessarily replace or trump budget considerations, citizens’
concerns, campaign commitments and other considerations,” Fox said.
Remember way, way back when Canada’s federal scientists were shackled
to their laboratory tables, unable to speak out or walk freely in the
light of day?
I don’t mean to sound trivial; the war on science in Canada was real
and severe in its implications and in some places devastating in its
consequences.
But looking back on what Canadians are calling the ‘dark decade’
already feels ridiculous somehow, like it’s a caricature of our past
reality. How did things get so bad?
http://desmog.ca/2016/03/09/canada-s-unmuzzled-scientists-call-protection-future-muzzling
That’s something the scientific community at large is asking itself,
in a serious attempt to prevent ideology-driven, anti-science policies
from taking root once again.
“Science should never be silenced again,” Debi Daviau, president of
the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada (PIPSC), a
union representing more than 15,000 federal scientists, said in a
statement released Wednesday.
PIPSC, as well as the science-advocacy group Evidence for Democracy
(E4D), released an open letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as
well as to science ministers Kirsty Duncan and Navdeep Bains,
requesting policies be put in place to protect the scientific
integrity of Canada’s public employees.
(Full disclosure: I recently became a volunteer member of Evidence for
Democracy's board of directors.)
The two groups say they commend the Liberal government for restoring
the mandatory long-form census in Canada as well as lifting strict
communications procedures that prevented federal scientists from
speaking to the media or the public without upper level bureaucratic
oversight.
In the joint letter released today, the groups are calling on the
government to take their effort to restore scientific integrity in
Canada a step further.
“The government clearly supports science integrity — now we need them
to safeguard it from future attacks,” Katie Gibbs, executive director
of E4D, said
“Creating strong science integrity policies in all federal
science-based departments will go a long way to ensuring that
critically important government research is available to the public
and used in policy development.”
The letter also requests scientific integrity provisions be added to
collective bargaining agreements, to ensure federal employees have an
enshrined right to work and communicate freely without fear of
censure.
According to Daviau, having clear rules in place for scientists is
critical for the restoration of scientific integrity at the federal
level.
“By including the right of scientists to speak in collective
agreements we can ensure there exists a consistent policy and a
binding process to resolve disputes as well as prevent in future the
kind of chill imposed by communications policies under the Harper
government,” she said.
The open letter comes just one day after the release of a report from
the Institute for Research on Public Policy and the Canadian Academy
of Engineering that calls for the better use of science in the
creation of public policy.
“As governments grapple with evermore complex policy problems, science
and technology must play a bigger role in providing an evidence base
for decisions and supporting government efforts to manage risk and
uncertainty,” Pierre Lortie, president of the Canadian Academy of
Engineering, said in a release.
The report calls on the Liberal government to foster informed debate
by making research used in decision-making more readily available to
the public, to strengthen internal decision-making policy, establish a
national science advisory board and build bridges between
parliamentarians and the scientific community.
Graham Fox, president of the Institute for Research on Public Policy,
notes scientific evidence is meant to play a role in decisions, but
that other factors are always taken into consideration.
“Of course, evidence should weigh heavily in the balance, but it will
not necessarily replace or trump budget considerations, citizens’
concerns, campaign commitments and other considerations,” Fox said.
Chom Noamsky
Mar 9, 2016, 11:00:27 PM3/9/16
to
On 3/9/2016 7:29 PM, gordo wrote:
> "It already feels like a long time ago.
>
> Remember way, way back when Canada’s federal scientists were shackled
> to their laboratory tables, unable to speak out or walk freely in the
> light of day?
To prove that what your article is saying isn't a great big hoax, cite
> "It already feels like a long time ago.
>
> Remember way, way back when Canada’s federal scientists were shackled
> to their laboratory tables, unable to speak out or walk freely in the
> light of day?
some suppressed research made public because Turdeau got elected.
Dhu on Gate
Mar 10, 2016, 12:57:18 AM3/10/16
to
On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 19:29:52 -0800, gordo wrote:
>
> According to Daviau, having clear rules in place for scientists is
> critical for the restoration of scientific integrity at the federal
> level.
>
No. We don't need "clear rules in place for scientists". We need
>
> According to Daviau, having clear rules in place for scientists is
> critical for the restoration of scientific integrity at the federal
> level.
>
to need to be *clear* about protecting the Liberty of other Canadians.
This includes, amongst other things, Freedom of Conscience, Speech
and Association. And these Liberties must supercede all other consideration
of race, religion or commercial association.
To effect this I think we need some strong whistleblower legislation allowing
the defense of necessity.
Dhu
--
http://babayaga.neotext.ca/PublicKeys/Duncan_Patton_a_Campbell_pubkey.txt
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
gordo
Mar 10, 2016, 1:38:36 AM3/10/16
to
Thank gods that they are not muzzled anymore. To prove you are a real
person ,post your name address and telephone number.
gordo
Mar 10, 2016, 1:39:46 AM3/10/16
to
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 05:54:11 -0000 (UTC), Dhu on Gate
<camp...@neotext.ca> wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 19:29:52 -0800, gordo wrote:
>
>>
>> According to Daviau, having clear rules in place for scientists is
>> critical for the restoration of scientific integrity at the federal
>> level.
>>
>
>No. We don't need "clear rules in place for scientists". We need
>to need to be *clear* about protecting the Liberty of other Canadians.
>This includes, amongst other things, Freedom of Conscience, Speech
>and Association. And these Liberties must supercede all other consideration
>of race, religion or commercial association.
>
>To effect this I think we need some strong whistleblower legislation allowing
>the defense of necessity.
>
>Dhu
Ok both.
<camp...@neotext.ca> wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 19:29:52 -0800, gordo wrote:
>
>>
>> According to Daviau, having clear rules in place for scientists is
>> critical for the restoration of scientific integrity at the federal
>> level.
>>
>
>No. We don't need "clear rules in place for scientists". We need
>to need to be *clear* about protecting the Liberty of other Canadians.
>This includes, amongst other things, Freedom of Conscience, Speech
>and Association. And these Liberties must supercede all other consideration
>of race, religion or commercial association.
>
>To effect this I think we need some strong whistleblower legislation allowing
>the defense of necessity.
>
>Dhu
Chom Noamsky
Mar 10, 2016, 1:49:39 AM3/10/16
to
On 3/9/2016 10:38 PM, gordo wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 20:00:25 -0800, Chom Noamsky
> <chomch...@chom.chom> wrote:
>
>> On 3/9/2016 7:29 PM, gordo wrote:
>>> "It already feels like a long time ago.
>>>
>>> Remember way, way back when Canada’s federal scientists were shackled
>>> to their laboratory tables, unable to speak out or walk freely in the
>>> light of day?
>>
>> To prove that what your article is saying isn't a great big hoax, cite
>> some suppressed research made public because Turdeau got elected.
>
> Scientist were muzzled because of the worst PM in Canadian history.
> Thank gods that they are not muzzled anymore.
As I thought, you can't actually provide an example of suppressed
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 20:00:25 -0800, Chom Noamsky
> <chomch...@chom.chom> wrote:
>
>> On 3/9/2016 7:29 PM, gordo wrote:
>>> "It already feels like a long time ago.
>>>
>>> Remember way, way back when Canada’s federal scientists were shackled
>>> to their laboratory tables, unable to speak out or walk freely in the
>>> light of day?
>>
>> To prove that what your article is saying isn't a great big hoax, cite
>> some suppressed research made public because Turdeau got elected.
>
> Scientist were muzzled because of the worst PM in Canadian history.
> Thank gods that they are not muzzled anymore.
science liberated by the election of T2. Hoax status confirmed.
> To prove you are a real
> person ,post your name address and telephone number.
Gordon Merrick
8953 Oakes Rd Black Creek BC V9J1J2
(250) 337-8020
Chom Noamsky
Mar 10, 2016, 1:52:56 AM3/10/16
to
Then that anonymous guy who released all those embarrassing Climategate
emails can finally come out of hiding.
Liberals are VERMIN!
Mar 10, 2016, 2:11:13 AM3/10/16
to
What else do these leftist shills want? Let me guess: Guaranteed lifetime employment at the public trough.
They will NEVER get an unmuzzling rule. Not from the private sector and not from government.
They will NEVER get an unmuzzling rule. Not from the private sector and not from government.
Dhu on Gate
Mar 10, 2016, 3:27:14 AM3/10/16
to
right to record and publish real events and actions.
I know this will be opposed by privacy activists as well
as those needing to proceed by night and fog, but I'm
pretty sure your knowing the number of zits on my arse
won't discomfit me near as much as the Police at my door.
Alan Baker
Mar 10, 2016, 1:24:30 PM3/10/16
to
gordo
Mar 10, 2016, 3:35:27 PM3/10/16
to
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 10:24:25 -0800, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote:
What the hell are you talking about. I have been posting articles
about it for several years now.
"FAQ: The issues around muzzling government scientists"
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/faq-the-issues-around-muzzling-government-scientists-1.3079537
wrote:
about it for several years now.
"FAQ: The issues around muzzling government scientists"
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/faq-the-issues-around-muzzling-government-scientists-1.3079537
M.I.Wakefield
Mar 10, 2016, 3:44:09 PM3/10/16
to
"gordo" wrote in message news:45m3eb54kqchgbi9t...@4ax.com...
> What the hell are you talking about. I have been posting articles
> about it for several years now.
> "FAQ: The issues around muzzling government scientists"
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/faq-the-issues-around-muzzling-government-scientists-1.3079537
"In the past, journalists were generally able to contact scientists directly
for interviews, but after these new directives they had to go through
government communications officers."
In other words, they were brought into line with every other public servant
in the country.
> What the hell are you talking about. I have been posting articles
> about it for several years now.
> "FAQ: The issues around muzzling government scientists"
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/faq-the-issues-around-muzzling-government-scientists-1.3079537
for interviews, but after these new directives they had to go through
government communications officers."
In other words, they were brought into line with every other public servant
in the country.
Eric©
Mar 10, 2016, 3:50:32 PM3/10/16
to
gordo wrote...
> "FAQ: The issues around muzzling government scientists"
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/faq-the-issues-around-muzzling-government-scientists-1.3079537
There was a letter published the other day opposing the federal environmental assessment
that approves construction of the Pacific Northwest LNG terminal near Prince Rupert, BC.
130 scientists attached their names to the letter. These scientists are from all over
North America, as well as eastern Russia. Not one of them was a working Canadian federal
government scientist. They are still muzzled, as they should be.
>
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 10:24:25 -0800, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On 2016-03-09 10:38 PM, gordo wrote:
> >> On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 20:00:25 -0800, Chom Noamsky
> >> <chomch...@chom.chom> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 3/9/2016 7:29 PM, gordo wrote:
> >>>> "It already feels like a long time ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> Remember way, way back when Canada?s federal scientists were shackled
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 10:24:25 -0800, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On 2016-03-09 10:38 PM, gordo wrote:
> >> On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 20:00:25 -0800, Chom Noamsky
> >> <chomch...@chom.chom> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 3/9/2016 7:29 PM, gordo wrote:
> >>>> "It already feels like a long time ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> to their laboratory tables, unable to speak out or walk freely in the
> >>>> light of day?
> >>>
> >>> To prove that what your article is saying isn't a great big hoax, cite
> >>> some suppressed research made public because Turdeau got elected.
> >>
> >> Scientist were muzzled because of the worst PM in Canadian history.
> >> Thank gods that they are not muzzled anymore. To prove you are a real
> >> person ,post your name address and telephone number.
> >>
> >
> >So you can't cite anything?
>
> What the hell are you talking about. I have been posting articles
> about it for several years now.
Tsk... the language...
> >>>> light of day?
> >>>
> >>> To prove that what your article is saying isn't a great big hoax, cite
> >>> some suppressed research made public because Turdeau got elected.
> >>
> >> Scientist were muzzled because of the worst PM in Canadian history.
> >> Thank gods that they are not muzzled anymore. To prove you are a real
> >> person ,post your name address and telephone number.
> >>
> >
> >So you can't cite anything?
>
> What the hell are you talking about. I have been posting articles
> about it for several years now.
> "FAQ: The issues around muzzling government scientists"
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/faq-the-issues-around-muzzling-government-scientists-1.3079537
that approves construction of the Pacific Northwest LNG terminal near Prince Rupert, BC.
130 scientists attached their names to the letter. These scientists are from all over
North America, as well as eastern Russia. Not one of them was a working Canadian federal
government scientist. They are still muzzled, as they should be.
Chom Noamsky
Mar 10, 2016, 5:24:42 PM3/10/16
to
case example of science that was suppressed under Harper, but liberated
under Trudeau?
Or put another way, what do you know now that you were denied knowing,
prior to T2 getting elected?
The credibility of your claims are entirely riding on your ability to
substantiate your claims, which you have failed to do.
gordo
Mar 10, 2016, 8:17:44 PM3/10/16
to
gordo
Mar 10, 2016, 8:20:17 PM3/10/16
to
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 14:24:39 -0800, Chom Noamsky
You seem to be having a -problem with reading. You are trying to be a
troll.
troll.
M.I.Wakefield
Mar 10, 2016, 8:36:42 PM3/10/16
to
"gordo" wrote in message news:v474ebdk7n0ks0fst...@4ax.com...
Nope. Actual facts. A repost from last year:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love how people, whose contact with the government has been limited to
collecting unemployment, think that means they've worked for the government,
and are thus qualified to comment on the working conditions of the Public
Service.
As for making stuff up ...
(From http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/p-33.01/FullText.html )
Section 54 of the Public Service Employment Act:
---------------------
54. A person appointed or deployed from outside that part of the public
service to which the Commission has exclusive authority to make appointments
shall take and subscribe an oath or solemn affirmation in the following
form:
I, _______ , swear (or solemnly affirm) that I will faithfully and honestly
fulfil the duties that devolve on me by reason of my employment in the
public service of Canada and that I will not, without due authority,
disclose or make known any matter that comes to my knowledge by reason of
such employment. (Add, in the case where an oath is taken, “So help me God”
(or name of deity).)
---------------------
Did you note that bit? "... I will not, without due authority, disclose or
make known any matter that comes to my knowledge by reason of such
employment."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you work for the government, the government owns the products of your
work, and you don't get to talk about it without permission.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love how people, whose contact with the government has been limited to
collecting unemployment, think that means they've worked for the government,
and are thus qualified to comment on the working conditions of the Public
Service.
As for making stuff up ...
(From http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/p-33.01/FullText.html )
Section 54 of the Public Service Employment Act:
---------------------
54. A person appointed or deployed from outside that part of the public
service to which the Commission has exclusive authority to make appointments
shall take and subscribe an oath or solemn affirmation in the following
form:
I, _______ , swear (or solemnly affirm) that I will faithfully and honestly
fulfil the duties that devolve on me by reason of my employment in the
public service of Canada and that I will not, without due authority,
disclose or make known any matter that comes to my knowledge by reason of
such employment. (Add, in the case where an oath is taken, “So help me God”
(or name of deity).)
---------------------
Did you note that bit? "... I will not, without due authority, disclose or
make known any matter that comes to my knowledge by reason of such
employment."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you work for the government, the government owns the products of your
work, and you don't get to talk about it without permission.
Chom Noamsky
Mar 10, 2016, 8:48:07 PM3/10/16
to
there is anything to your claim of suppression under Harper. So far you
haven't made the case.
And it's really simple to do, just point to something that was kept
secret under Harper, but liberated under Turdeau, and you can declare
victory.
gordo
Mar 11, 2016, 12:47:54 AM3/11/16
to
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:36:42 -0500, "M.I.Wakefield" <no...@present.com>
wrote:
>"gordo" wrote in message news:v474ebdk7n0ks0fst...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 15:44:09 -0500, "M.I.Wakefield" <no...@present.com>
>> wrote:
>
>> >In other words, they were brought into line with every other public
>> >servant
>> >in the country.
>
>> Bullshit.
>
>Nope. Actual facts. A repost from last year:
No it is bullshit heifer dust and horse buns. The Harper government
muzzled scientists. When lead scientists and senior civil servants
spoke out they were fired. This included head of nuclear safety,and
health Canada. When the safety of a nuclear plant was shut down for
safety reasons the head of the department was fired. People are hired
to work on behalf of the Canadian people and not for Harper. We are
slowly undoing what the worst PM in Canadian history has done.
wrote:
>"gordo" wrote in message news:v474ebdk7n0ks0fst...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 15:44:09 -0500, "M.I.Wakefield" <no...@present.com>
>> wrote:
>
>> >In other words, they were brought into line with every other public
>> >servant
>> >in the country.
>
>> Bullshit.
>
>Nope. Actual facts. A repost from last year:
muzzled scientists. When lead scientists and senior civil servants
spoke out they were fired. This included head of nuclear safety,and
health Canada. When the safety of a nuclear plant was shut down for
safety reasons the head of the department was fired. People are hired
to work on behalf of the Canadian people and not for Harper. We are
slowly undoing what the worst PM in Canadian history has done.
Chom Noamsky
Mar 11, 2016, 2:26:49 AM3/11/16
to
On 3/10/2016 9:47 PM, gordo wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:36:42 -0500, "M.I.Wakefield" <no...@present.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "gordo" wrote in message news:v474ebdk7n0ks0fst...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 15:44:09 -0500, "M.I.Wakefield" <no...@present.com>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> In other words, they were brought into line with every other public
>>>> servant
>>>> in the country.
>>
>>> Bullshit.
>>
>> Nope. Actual facts. A repost from last year:
>
> No it is bullshit heifer dust and horse buns. The Harper government
> muzzled scientists. When lead scientists and senior civil servants
> spoke out they were fired. This included head of nuclear safety,and
> health Canada. When the safety of a nuclear plant was shut down for
> safety reasons the head of the department was fired. People are hired
> to work on behalf of the Canadian people and not for Harper. We are
> slowly undoing what the worst PM in Canadian history has done.
Yet you still can't actually point to a single case of information
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:36:42 -0500, "M.I.Wakefield" <no...@present.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "gordo" wrote in message news:v474ebdk7n0ks0fst...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 15:44:09 -0500, "M.I.Wakefield" <no...@present.com>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> In other words, they were brought into line with every other public
>>>> servant
>>>> in the country.
>>
>>> Bullshit.
>>
>> Nope. Actual facts. A repost from last year:
>
> No it is bullshit heifer dust and horse buns. The Harper government
> muzzled scientists. When lead scientists and senior civil servants
> spoke out they were fired. This included head of nuclear safety,and
> health Canada. When the safety of a nuclear plant was shut down for
> safety reasons the head of the department was fired. People are hired
> to work on behalf of the Canadian people and not for Harper. We are
> slowly undoing what the worst PM in Canadian history has done.
suppression .
gordo
Mar 11, 2016, 2:43:14 AM3/11/16
to
Chom Noamsky
Mar 11, 2016, 3:01:29 AM3/11/16
to
M.I.Wakefield
Mar 11, 2016, 7:06:32 AM3/11/16
to
"gordo" wrote in message news:6dt4eb1j63uobe8l7...@4ax.com...
What you cannot do is point out the public servants who are exempt from
Section 54 of the Public Service Employment Act:
A person appointed or deployed from outside that part of the public service
to which the Commission has exclusive authority to make appointments shall
take and subscribe an oath or solemn affirmation in the following form:
I, _______ , swear (or solemnly affirm) that I will faithfully and honestly
fulfil the duties that devolve on me by reason of my employment in the
public service of Canada and that **I will not, without due authority,
to which the Commission has exclusive authority to make appointments shall
take and subscribe an oath or solemn affirmation in the following form:
I, _______ , swear (or solemnly affirm) that I will faithfully and honestly
fulfil the duties that devolve on me by reason of my employment in the
disclose or make known any matter that comes to my knowledge by reason of
such employment.** (Add, in the case where an oath is taken, “So help me
God” (or name of deity).)
Emphasis added.
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