Terrorist attack in Spain
Jose Catena
seven bombs in three trains arriving at Madrid at peak hours (7:30).
Provisional count is 173 deaths and 733 injured, people going to work and
students going to school and university.
5 of the bombs were located in one of the trains (one per wagon) and
exploded about 30 seconds before the train arrived at the station of Atocha.
If that train wasn't a bit delayed, it could have been even much worse.
The terrorists have been trying it a lot of times. Last Christmas day,
several bombs were deactivated in the station of Chamartin. Two weeks ago, a
truck loaded with more than 500 Kg of high explosive was intercepted in its
way to Madrid. Another one was intercepted with nearly 1000 Kg that was
going to be exploded in Callao square, a big commercial area in the center
of Madrid.
Next Sunday there are general elections, and the campaign has been suspended
after the attack.
Sad day here.
I ask to those of you somewhat sensitive to pray something for the victims.
--
Jose Catena
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/faithcatenamusic.htm
Eric Margheim
"Jose Catena" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:a605c4cdcb96fa0c...@news.teranews.com...
> Today we suffered the worst terrorist attack in our history. A total of
> seven bombs in three trains arriving at Madrid at peak hours (7:30).
> Provisional count is 173 deaths and 733 injured, people going to work and
> students going to school and university.
> 5 of the bombs were located in one of the trains (one per wagon) and
My thought and prayers are with you and your nation Jose. This is
horrible.
Steve Karl
My hopes and prayers are for more safety and ..... well everyone.
Steve
"Jose Catena" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:a605c4cdcb96fa0c...@news.teranews.com...
HyDr0 Cr0n
skin.
ChrisB
wrote:
>I ask to those of you somewhat sensitive to pray something for the victims.
I do for them and your safety, Jose.
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/crispwilliammusic.htm
http://www.wingedglobe.com
Moorehead Johnson
Jose,
America stands with you. Condolences to the families of those slain
by the terrorists in Madrid.
The world needs to unite against these Godless bastards once and for
all, hunt them down, and destroy them.
MJ
Jose Catena
Many terrorists from ETA have been arrested lately trying similar attacks in
Madrid, and the explosives used are also what they have been using lately,
Titadyne, stolen from a French store.
But they have not claimed responsibility yet.
An Islamic newspaper in Great Britain has received a letter from an Al'Queda
faction claiming responsibility, but it is very vague and has not been
confirmed or validated yet.
Here everybody assumes that it has been ETA, but we'll need to wait until
the investigators confirm the responsibility. They surely won't do it until
they have clear proofs, what I don't think will happen before tomorrow.
The updated numbers, 193 deaths, more than 1400 injured, 44 of them in very
critical state. Identifications will continue until tomorrow, since in many
cases it will be necessary ADN tests.
Thanks for the payers to everybody.
HyDr0 Cr0n
thats your part of Spain right?
Jose Catena
> thats your part of Spain right?
Yes, I live in Madrid.
Jose Catena
Nate West
> students going to school and university.
> 5 of the bombs were located in one of the trains (one per wagon) and
> exploded about 30 seconds before the train arrived at the station of
Atocha.
victims.
My prayers are with you, your family and fellow country men and women. It
is another sad day in history isn't it....
Nate
RG Ver 2004a
Kill the muslims before they kill you. Kill them.
rg
Martin Schiff
My condolences for your countrymen and women who perished and were injured
at the hands of these subhumans.
The world is becoming more and more crazy. Hopefully, the perpetrators will
be caught and punished.
--
-- Martin
Starbirth Music
http://www.starbirthmusic.com
"Jose Catena" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:a605c4cdcb96fa0c...@news.teranews.com...
Jose Catena
We won't kill anybody. Much less innocent people just for believing in
certain Faith.
The culprits will be with the thousands of their colleagues in the prison
soon, thought.
Although it won't revive their victims, it won't help the orphans, it won't
help the parents that lost their children.
We won't restrict civilian rights either, the terrorists won't earn anything
here but a lot of years in the prison. Until there is no one left.
Gerry Peters
God Bless,
--
Gerry Peters
"Jose Catena" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:a605c4cdcb96fa0c...@news.teranews.com...
Nate West
"Martin Schiff" <msc...@cdsol.comLA-DE-DA-nospam> wrote in message
news:v%b4c.239659$Po1....@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> Jose,
>
> My condolences for your countrymen and women who perished and were injured
> at the hands of these subhumans.
>
> The world is becoming more and more crazy. Hopefully, the perpetrators
will
> be caught and punished.
I know this is kind of dumb...but the more I see of things the more I see
that the world is starting to resemble the one in Robo Cop. And the criminal
elements are reacting the same, in that they simply don't care or respect
the law at any level. They know they are marked for death, consequently they
feel they have nothing to lose and everything to gain in throwing it all
away. It's hard to get a grip on that kind of thinking, let alone defend or
eliminate it.
Nate
BigUn
"sam booka" <My...@il.is.the.kitchen> wrote in message
news:Xns94AA63974...@198.161.157.145...
>
> Yet, they inexplicably attacked America to face sure and devastating
> retribution for their cause.
Wrong. I believe this was a huge mis-calculation on their part. They thought
that America would just fold up, wringing their hands in fear. The end
result is that it would strengthen their cause after the Islamic world saw
the world's greatest superpower brought down.
They were obviously mistaken.
Jose Catena
history by far. Almost all people in Madid were in the streets, and the same
happened in other cities, including in the Basque country.
Investigators find more tracks leading to ETA. The explosives source,
detonators, activation by mobile phones, no suicides found, similar previous
attempts, etc, lead to ETA as the culprit.
The Pakistani Al'Queda faction claim is not considered, since that group
never operated outside Pakistan and they very often claimed responsibility
for attacks that they didn't perform.
An anonymous call to a Basque separatist newspaper told supposedly in name
of ETA that they didn't do it, but it is also ignored because ETA did so
after many crimes that they performed.
The only point for now toward Islamic terrorists responsibility is a tape in
Arab found in a vehicle used by the terrorists, and that track is being
investigated, but the rest of the information available for now points to
ETA.
It is well known here that ETA had contacts with Al'Queda, and also a
possible cooperation for this attack is being considered.
But in words of the invertigators, 90% of the tracks lead to ETA.
Steve Alleman
news:7e8ba5a4d8765be3...@news.teranews.com...
> Ahem,
> Kill the muslims before they kill you. Kill them.
You're nothing but an ignorant bigot.
BigSteve
Ted Perlman
Who cares what he is - he speaks the truth.
Who's responsible for the attacks in Spain? The same bad guys who were
responsible for 9/11, Bali, etc. The same bad guys who are ALWAYS
responsible. This is not rocket science - it's just fact.
TP
Steve Alleman
BigSteve
"Ted Perlman" <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:w_z4c.9582$VH6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
Organfreak
wrote:
No, that's incorrect. The current money is on the Basque Separatists.
-OF
Russ Poncher
news:1a4fab33eed4f860...@news.teranews.com:
Whose money?
<http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040311-112725-1601r>
Madrid bombings carry al-Qaida hallmark
For starters the Brussels-based World Observatory of Terrorism, an
independent think tank affiliated with the European Strategic
Intelligence and Security Center, points to five major reasons that cast
doubt on the involvement of ETA.
<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=1
&u=/nm/20040313/ts_nm/spain_explosions_dc_55>
Report: Spanish Intelligence Sees Muslims Behind Attack
Sat Mar 13,10:34 AM ET
MADRID (Reuters) - Spain's intelligence service is "99 percent certain"
that radical Muslims and not the Basque separatist group ETA are
responsible for the train bombings that killed 200 people, a Spanish
radio station reported on Saturday.
Private radio SER, whose owners have links to the opposition Socialist
Party, said the National Intelligence Center (CNI) believes the evidence
points to an Islamic group, and that 10 to 15 people left bombs on the
trains and fled, the radio said.
The center-right government, facing an election on Sunday, has said ETA
is the prime suspect.
Ted Perlman
Ahh - but all terrorists lately have been muslims. Quoting from the koran
everytime.
TP
Ted Perlman
that radical Muslims and not the Basque separatist group ETA are
responsible for the train bombings that killed 200 people, a Spanish
radio station reported on Saturday>
That's what I believe as well.
TP
Ted Perlman
those guys were reading before they killed all those people....do you
suppose it was Tolstoy? Perhaps Dickens? Nah - more than likely it was that
good old resource for inspiration when one decides to kill innocent people -
the koran. The modern terrorists' handbook.
TP
Steve Alleman
> <All Muslims are not terrorists>
>
> Ahh - but all terrorists lately have been muslims. Quoting from the koran
> everytime.
All? Hardly. Maybe you don't care about terrorism in Northern Ireland or
Oklahoma City or previous examples of Basque separatist terrorism, but all
terrorists are not Muslims. And All Muslims are not terrorists.
The statement I was objecting to was "kill the muslims," not "kill the
muslim terrorists."
BigSteve
Ted Perlman
Name 5 who aren't? I knew it - you can't, can you? :-)
TP
Steve Alleman
> <And All Muslims are not terrorists>
>
> Name 5 who aren't? I knew it - you can't, can you? :-)
I personally know 5 Muslims who are not terrorists.
BigSteve
Jose Catena
arrested related with the manipulation of mobile phones for the attack.
They are 3 from Morocco and 2 from India. Another two Indians but with
Spanish nationality are also being interrogated.
So the Islamist track is becoming stronger, but it is still soon to make
definitive conclusions.
The tape with Koran verses found in a car the terrorist used, together with
seven detonators identical to de ones used in the attack, and the easy to
follow track left by the mobile phones used as timers, indicate that the
perpetrators either didn't care of hiding their identities, or intended to
leave fabricated evidences to confuse the investigation.
What's clear is that ETA tried similar attacks last Christmas and two weeks
ago with identical equipment and strategy, and all the terrorists were
arrested that time and the bombs deactivated.
The bad thing, the really sad thing now, is the politization that is being
done over the innocent victims to influence tomorrow elections. The
socialist party and their huge media network including the SER you referred
are dividing the unity against the terrorism, launching repugnant messages
saying that the government is the culprit for sending troops to Irak, and
that they have hiding the information that is leading to Islamist terrorism
instead of ETA. This is despicable and I feel shame of being an Spaniard
like the people that said that crap.
The government has been coordinating all the operations perfectly, and they
informed of every detail found immediately, the car, the people related with
mobile phones (information provided just as they were being arrested, before
being interrogated). And it's obvious that they have been investing maximum
efforts in each of the possible tracks to follow.
The political usage comes from the fact that during the 8 years with Aznar's
govt, ETA has been losing militants at an unsustainable rate (150 last year
added to the more than 1000 in prison), while most attacks are avoided
before it was too late. In resume, a good success against terrorism. But
Socialist's previous legislatures that even practiced state terrorism and
tried to pact with the terrorists, resulted in a largely strengthened ETA.
No mystery that PP politicians have been the main ETA targets during these
years.
Form the other side, Aznar's govt approved the support to US for the war in
Iraq, That was not approved by most citizens here.
As a result (how bad I feel speaking of this), an ETA attack would tend to
increase PP votes (center-right) while and Al'Qaeda attack might tend to
increase Socialist and Communist votes. The PP is just spreading the details
very timely (skipping only some secrets like names, etc, for obvious
reasons), disregarding the fact that the latest information may give them a
disadvantage for tomorrow elections. On the other side, the Socialist party
in the opposition has mobilized all his media during the meditation day to
spread that the attacks were perpetrated by Muslims (possible but not sure
yet), that the govt is hiding information, and last and worse, that Aznar is
responsible for the attacks for sending troops to Iraq.
I really detest this kind of manipulations, but much more when the huge
suffering of so many individuals and families caused by this attack should
lead to something very different: everybody should trust in the Intelligence
and Security services that so efficient have been being, and wait until the
result of the investigations with the knowledge that no matter if it was ETA
or and Islamic group, we will have to fight all together against them,
disregarding whose of the criminal bands might influence one party or the
other.
As you see, I also criticize my country in the same way as any other when I
see that blind power seeking manipulating the society for their own profit.
So Shame on us today, specially on the Socialist Party in the opposition
(and I hope it will keep that place after tomorrow).
Sorry for the long post, but I though that there might be people here that w
anted to know how is it going here.
Once more, my feelings are with everyone affected by terrorism of any color.
Jose Catena
> everytime.
ETA are not Muslims, and they have been a real bloody band for decades, with
thousands of victims. And of course, ETA is not all the Basques either, only
a few of them. We care mostly of them, because they affected us the most, at
least until now.
The same can be applied to every terrorist band.
Perhaps you care more of Islamic terrorism because it is more generalized
and spread against all the civilized west and because the high funding they
have been gathering. But it still does not allow the generalization that
every Muslim is a terrorist.
Palestinians care more of Israeli terrorism because it's what affect them
the most, and again, it's clear that not all Israelis are terrorists.
As long as you don't stop justifying terrorism of any kind, you can not
contribute to fight the terrorism in general. If you justify a single color
of terrorism, you are actually acting the same as all the rest that justify
terrorism of either color. And as obvious logical conclusion, you are
contributing to spread the terrorism in general.
Does not matter if a specific terrorist band interests are closer to yours
or radically different, we must reject and fight EVERY form of terrorism.
I hope you could understand it.
Jose Catena
>
> Name 5 who aren't? I knew it - you can't, can you? :-)
Here is a very partial list (I was tired to continue copying), only of those
arrested during the last 5 years in Spain: If you don't have enough with
this, I could continue with large lists of terrorists original from
Chechnya, Israel, North America, Colombia, etc, etc, etc, neither of them
are Muslims.
ABAD PALACIOS, OSCAR
AGUINACO ARBAIZA, JOSÉ JULIAN
AGUINACO LARRINAGA
AGUIRRE GARAY, MARIA PILAR
AGUIRRE OSORO, JOSÉ JULIAN
AGUIRRECHE OLAZABAL, NICASIO
AGUIRREZALDEGUI GALLASTEGUI, ÁNGEL
AIZPURUA EGAÑA, MARIA ICIAR
ALAÑA ARRINDA, JUAN LUIS
ALBERDI EGAÑA, JOSÉ AITOR
ALBERDI EGAÑA, PEDRO LUIS
ALBERDI ZUBIZARRETA, MIGUEL
ALCALDE LINARES, ÁNGEL
ALDALUR ILLARRAMENDI, JOSÉ FERMÍN
ALDAMA ORTEGA, GREGORIO
ALDANONDO LLIZURIAGA, JOAQUIN MARIA
ALEGRÍA LOINAZ, FRANCISCO JAVIER
ALONSO ORMAECHEA, MIGUEL ÁNGEL
ALTUNA EPELDE, ASIER
ALZUGUREN PERURENA, JOSÉ ÁNGEL
AMENABAR VILLARROEL. JESÚS MARIA
AMEZAGA EPALZA, MARIA ICIAR
AMEZQUETA GOICOECHEA, JUAN JOSÉ
ANDUEZA ORTEGA, MARÍA JOSÉ
ANGOITIA LOIDI, JOSÉ LUIS
ANGOITIA LOIDI, JOSE LUIS
ANGULO EGAÑA, JOSE MARÍA
ANSOLA LARRAÑAGA, JOSÉ LUIS
ANTÓN MURGUIONDO, JUAN ELIAS
ANUNCIABAY ZABALA, FRANCISCO JAVIER
APERRIBAY APELLANIZ, JOSÉ RAMÓN
ARAGÓN IROZ, SANTIAGO VICENTE
ARAMBURU LANDA. FRANCISCO
ARAMBURU OLAECHEA, MANUEL
ARANA LEGARRETA ECHEVARRIA, URTZI
ARANGUREN IRAIZOZ, JOSÉ RAMÓN
ARECHAGA LARRABIDE, JOSÉ MARÍA
ARECHAGA LLONA, FRANCISCO
ARECHAVALETA ZAMALLOA, ANA BEGOÑA
AREGO OTAZUA, ANGEL MARÍA
AREIZAGA LETONA, FRANCISCO JAVIER
AREJOLALEIBA MADINA, JUAN JOSÉ
ARENAZA ÁLVAREZ, JOSÉ RAMÓN
ARICETA ARZUAGA, JORGE 1995
ARISTI ECHAIDE, JOSÉ MANUEL
ARMENTIA SAGARNA, ÓSCAR
ARRASTOA AGOTE, MIGUEL MARÍA
ARRASTOA ZABALA, JOSÉ LUIS
ARRATIBEL ZABALO, GERARDO
ARRECHE GUTIÉRREZ, JUAN RAMÓN
ARRECHE LIZARRAGA, MARÍA ARANZAZU
ARRECHE QUILCE, JOSÉ ANTONIO
ARRIAGA GOIRICELAYA, JAVIER
ARRIAGA GOIRICELAYA, MIGUEL
ARRIAGA IBARRA, JESÚS FELIPE
ARRIBAS PUERTO, JOSÉ ALBERTO
ARRIETA PEREZ DE MENDIOLA, ISMAEL
ASENSIO MILLAN, PABLO
AZPIAZU ALCELAY, ANTONIO
AZPIRI ROBLES, OIAKUA
BADO GONZALEZ, JESUS DEL
BADO GONZÁLEZ, SABINO DEL
BARRIOS MARTIN, JOSÉ LUIS
BEASCOECHEA ARIZMENDI, JUAN CARLOS
BELLA BRINGAS, MARÍA LUZ
BELOQUI ORTÚZAR, IBON
BELOQUI RESA, ELENA MARÍA
BENGOA CIARSOLO, NEREA
BERISTAIN URIZARBARRENA, lKER
BILBAO GAUBECA, JOSÉ IGNACIO
BLANCO GÓMEZ, JOSÉ LUIS
BLANCO SARACHAGA, NAGORE
BUÑUEL PÉREZ, MARÍA ROSARIO
CELARAIN ERRASTI, JULIÁN
CELARAIN OYARZÁBAL, PEDRO MARÍA
CERRATO OCERIN, JESÚS IGNACIO
CORTA CARRIÓN, MIGUEL ÁNGEL
DAÑOBEITIA CEBALLOS, OLATZ
DEL CAMPO GARCÍA, JORGE
DÍAZ DE HEREDIA RUIZ DE ARBULO, M. TERESA
DÍAZ URRUTIA, JOSÉ ANTONIO
DIEGUEZ GÓMEZ, JUAN PABLO
DOLORES CHAPARTEGUI, NIEVES
ECHABURU OSA, MIGUEL
ECHANDI JUANICOTENA, SOTERO
ECHAVARRI GARRO, JUAN MARÍA
ECHEVARRI ELORDI, JESUS MARÍA
ECHEVARRÍA BALBAS, MARÍA MILAGROS
ECHEVARRÍA SAGARZAZU, PEDRO
ECHEVERRÍA ARBELÁIZ, JOSÉ ANTONIO
ECHEVERRÍA IZTUETA, MIGUEL
ECHEZARRETA MANCISIDOR, JOSÉ ÁNGEL
EGUES GURRUCHAGA, ANA BELÉN
EGUIGUREN EMBEITIA, OLATZ
EGUIGUREN GOLMAYO, ÍÑIGO
EGUILUZ FERNÁNDEZ, FRANCISCO
ELCORO AYASTUY, ÍÑIGO
ELGORRIAGA KUNZE, TOMÁS
EREÑAGA AZCÁRATE, JULIÁN
FRAILE ITURRALDE, JORGE
FULLAONDO BETANZOS, IGOR
GARCÉS BEITIA, IGNACIO CRISPÍN
GARCÍA JUSTO, AITOR
GARITAONAINDÍA ANSOATEGUI, lKER
GARRIDO SÁNCHEZ, CARLOS
GARRO PÉREZ, NEREA
GETE ECHEVERRÍA, MARÍA CRISTINA
GOICOECHEA GARRALDA, JESÚS MARÍA
GOICOECHEA GARRALDA, PEDRO MIGUEL
GOROSTIDI ARTOLA, JOAQUÍN
GOROSTIZA GONZÁLEZ, PABLO
GOROSTIZA SALAZAR, JOSÉ
GOYA ECHEVESTE, VICENTE
GUINEA MUNDIÑANO, TRINIDAD
GUNDÍN MAGUREGUI, FRANCISCO
HOYO HERNÁNDEZ, PEDRO DEL
IBAIRRIAGA IRAMATEGUI, IGNACIO
IGARATAUNDI PEÑAGARICANO, PEDRO MARI
INCHAUSPE VERGARA, MANUEL
INCIARTE GALLARDO, JOSÉ ANTONIO
Ted Perlman
His grandfather was muslim. Look it up.
TP
Jose Catena
Al'Qaeda:
The name of one of the people arrested yesterday appeared in an intercepted
phone conversation between two AlQaeda members being investigated by Spanish
judge Garzón years ago. This looks a clear link.
A videotape has been found where a person with Muslim clothes speaking Arab
with accent from Morocco claims responsibility in the name of the "Al'Qaeda
military spokesperson in Europe ABU DUJAN AL AFGANI". But our intelligence
services and those of many allies didn't hear that name before, so for now
it does not mean for itself any evidence.
The definitive identification of the explosives is plastic "Goma 2" (Gum 2),
brand ECU, manufactured in Spain and highly powerful. A total of 13 bombs of
about 10 Kg each with copper detonators activated by mobile phones uses as
timers. This explosive is subject to strong control and no leak or loss has
been detected in Spain. It might have aquired outside, but according to
investigarots it is not easy. This explosive has been used very frequently
by ETA in the past, but recently they have been used the Titadyne they
stolen in France the most.
In resume, the links to Al'Qaeda are taking form and the investigation is
centered here, although the possible ETA implication is also being
investigated simultaneously.
Looks like the hope we had have having ETA against the ropes is now eclipsed
by a even worse challenge: Al'Qaeda is going to be very hard to peel off.
And at this problem conflicts arise: we need to be united and cooperate
against it, but the methods and tied interests of some allies are going to
make a difficult cooperation. For example, Spanish constitution bans
punishment of any people until it receives a fair trial, torture is banned,
military operations against civilians are banned. The only think we can do
is investigate, locate and capture terrorists and people that helps them,
trial them, and send them to the prison. We can not torture them, and we can
not even arrest anybody without having some evidence against them. Only the
police can act, and the military can only be used for operations outside out
country under UN or OTAN mandate.
Obviously we won't punish Muslims in Spain in any way unless those related
with terrorism. Even we have offered Spanish Nationality to all the victims
and relatives affected by attacks (there were victims from 12 foreign
countries).
This way, our constitutution, legislation and will is so different from
those from Israel, and in some points from USA too, that this cooperation is
going to be difficult to manage, but necessary and possible, I hope. I think
the key is to focus in terrorists specifically, because when that word is
generalized to mean a religion or a race we are out of the game.
We will see. Hopefully after November USA could get a new govt capable of
acting more for the good of the people than for their main contributors, as
it could revert to levels of international cooperation that have been almost
eliminated by Bush/Cheney/Rusted. I don't worry about deem, rep, or
whatever, but I urge you as the most powerful country in the world to find
some "Good" candidates, I mean ones with good ideas and respect to every
individual and community, and not only take care of their major
contributors.
Sorry, I drifted from the news to my demons... Thanks for reading anyway.
Jose Catena
> exactly the wrong message to socialists and/or terrorists everywhere. If
> the social-terrorists are successful, they will probably try the same
> thing during other elections where conservative anti-terrorist incumbent
> governments preside.
Unfortunately my compatriots didn't see it that clearly, and condemned out
country today to 4 years under inept socialist rule.
You see, there are dumb masses everywhere.
Eric Margheim
> > To not make them suffer immensely at the polls at this time would send
> > exactly the wrong message to socialists and/or terrorists everywhere. If
> > the social-terrorists are successful, they will probably try the same
> > thing during other elections where conservative anti-terrorist incumbent
> > governments preside.
>
> Unfortunately my compatriots didn't see it that clearly, and condemned out
> country today to 4 years under inept socialist rule.
> You see, there are dumb masses everywhere.
>
I'm sure that the socialist politicians knew about this attack beforehand
and let it happen for political gain so they get another 4 years of rule!
That seems to be the common conspiracy theory of the decade.
Steve Alleman
news:MPG.1abe94e81...@text.giganews.com...
> > <ABAD PALACIOS, OSCAR>
> Spain is the gateway to Europe from Muslim infested Africa.
I just have to point out this faith-based hatred. If someone had said "Jew
infested Middle East" or something along those lines, I'd call them on it
too.
BigSteve
Jose Catena
> and let it happen for political gain so they get another 4 years of rule!
> That seems to be the common conspiracy theory of the decade.
I doubt it very much. They are really stupid, but not assassins. Plus they
were in the opposition.
In the case of Bush made sense because the manipulation and secrecy he
imposed on the investigation details. Still there are many unclear things
about what really happened after 3 years.
As a minimum, there were huge intelligence mistakes that have been covered.
For that only, Bush should have removed from the power, even without
considering his other "merits".
Ted Perlman
It's part of islam to hate westerners. It's part of islam for them to try
and kill us. It's part of our life to try and stop the muthfuckas before
they do it. Whether or not they are going to do it is a no-brainer. They've
already done it and they're trying to do it again. All over the world. The
muslims. Nobody else, just the muslims. Is this so hard for you to
understand?
TP
Jose Catena
--
Jose Catena
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/faithcatenamusic.htm
"sam booka" <My...@il.is.the.kitchen> wrote in message
news:Xns94AD138FA...@198.161.157.145...
> "Jose Catena" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:8b909ac03a383ff7...@news.teranews.com:
> All commercially manufactured explosives have tracer chemicals in them,
> like a chemical serial number, so they should know the exact source.
>
> The big problem here is that if it really is Al Qaeda, they now know
> they have the power to alter elections, and this will be repeated in
> every close European election if anti-terrorist parties are in the race.
> They know they can cow the people quite easily now to vote against their
> enemies.
>
> It won't work in the US though, where the opposition says Bush is not
> being hard enough on the terrorists, and is lollygagging around in Iraq
> instead. Yeah, I know that sounds idiotic, but have you checked out the
> calibre of the average anti-Bush idiot here? They're the ones who just
> pinned all their hopes and dreams on a guy who is Ivy League University
> certified stoopider than the guy they say is the stoopidest man alive.
>
> He may be a decorated war hero, but he must be one dumb mutherfzckin'
> doofus... squared even.<g> --
> ___________________________________
> sambo
dgkenney
"sam booka" <My...@il.is.the.kitchen> wrote in message
news:Xns94AD138FA...@198.161.157.145...
> Yeah, I know that sounds idiotic, but have you checked out the
> calibre of the average anti-Bush idiot here?
.22 rimfire best I can tell.
Dan
Jose Catena
> like a chemical serial number, so they should know the exact source.
The explosives were manufactured in Rio Tinto, Spain, and are used for
mining, construction, etc. They are very controlled and no leak has been
found. They are exported to many countries that have in theory the same
control, and no reported leaks yet. So we don't know how these explosives
reached terrorist hands, but obviously it happened.
Eric Margheim
That's ridiculous. Because there were intelligence mistakes he should be
removed? What do you mean by "covered?". The Senate is currently going
through the analysis and interviews with the head of the CIA to get to the
bottom of this.
HyDr0 Cr0n
Yeah... lets give in to the terrorists like Spainish citizens.
Jose Catena
I didn't mean that. After 9/11 I said I admired the unity of the Americans
against the enemy regardless of political beliefs, and that if that happened
in Spain, the parties would be each using the terrorism to take some
advantage over other parties, as have been demonstrated now. Yes, a shame on
us.
But it must run in both directions. Bush's administration has not being
complying with that trust from the Americans, and has been lying, covering
and manipulating the facts to benefit only the big companies that fund their
campaigns. The attacks in Iraq have nothing to do with 9/11, the restriction
of civil rights in US are not the right answer to terrorism, and the people
that trusted unconditionally deserves the truth.
Next November will be the time to give an answer, but little will change
anyway. At the end, the elected president will most probably be an employee
of the energy and military companies. If he's a dem, he'll conceal better,
and otherwise more shameless. The words may change, the facts will be very
similar. The elderly and poor people will continue without health support,
the tax reductions will apply to the rich people, the energy and military
industries will keep raising the profits at incredible rates, the
indiscriminate waste of resources and pollution will keep growing, etc.
At the end, you shouldn't be much more hopeful about your country than I
about mine.
BigUn
> At the end, you shouldn't be much more hopeful about your country than I
> about mine.
>
I am MUCH more hopeful of my country. We are not cowards that turn tail and
run at the first sign of trouble.
Ted Perlman
Amen to that.
--
Regards,
Ted Perlman
Jose Catena
result
> before the bombings or is this anti-Bush spin?
The different polls showed an advantage for the PP between 3 and 6 % after
the attacks (depending on poll sources), and even larger before. In all
previous elections, the PP got better results than the polls predicted,
attributed to a larger discretion of PP voters compared with leftists.
More than the attack itself, what affected the election was the strong
campaign that the leftist media started after the attack while the PP
suspended the campaign, and that was specially strong the saturday, in
violation of laws banning it on election eve. Even the leftist media, leaded
by PRISA (El Pais, SER, etc), called to demonstrations in the PP offices the
saturday. Few people went to that demonstrations, but it was also widely
covered and exaggerated by the leftist media. All has been reported by the
elections commission as a violation of election laws.
I sincerely thought, (and I'm sure that the govt thought the same), that the
Spaniards would see the exaggerated manipulation of the attack news by the
left and how the PP avoided to make political valuations of it, informed
promptly and transparently, and respected the reflections day. But as you
see, we were wrong, our people is more stupid than we thought.
The worst thing is that in the current situation we are going to pay a very
high cost for our stupidity.
---
Apart of that, the valuation of Bush is extremely low here, both among the
people that is sympathetic with USA (the PP) and who isn't (the left). Most
people think that Bush stole the last election results with the help of Jeff
and some dad's friends, and I believe it too. Furthermore his bigotry,
prepotency and lack of education are not valuable characteristics when
dealing with international relations. I hope your next elections will be
cleaner and that the candidates, regardless of rep or dem, are more solid
leaders willing to consider the wishes and interest of the people and not of
the big boys that pay for it only.
Steve Alleman
> It's part of islam to hate westerners. It's part of islam for them to try
> and kill us. It's part of our life to try and stop the muthfuckas before
> they do it. Whether or not they are going to do it is a no-brainer.
They've
> already done it and they're trying to do it again. All over the world. The
> muslims. Nobody else, just the muslims. Is this so hard for you to
> understand?
Most of the above paragraph is paranoid delusion. You're as bad as the
people you claim to be against. You want to kill people because of their
religion. You're an embarrassment.
BigSteve
Steve Alleman
news:105acs0...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I'm sure that the socialist politicians knew about this attack beforehand
> and let it happen for political gain so they get another 4 years of rule!
> That seems to be the common conspiracy theory of the decade.
That's a pretty outrageous charge, Eric. You're sure of this ... how
exactly? You'd better say how you know this, or shut up.
BigSteve
BlackHawk
"ModBod" <modbodPLANK...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:iir5c.267175$jH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> On 15-Mar-2004, "dgkenney" <dgkenne...@excite.com> grabbed their box
of
> multicolored crayolas and wrote:
>
> > > Yeah, I know that sounds idiotic, but have you checked out the
> > > calibre of the average anti-Bush idiot here?
> >
> > .22 rimfire best I can tell.
>
>
> --
> Mod Bod
Libs are chambered for .22 Short.
Bob
Eric Margheim
"Steve Alleman" <sall...@bbellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:A1t5c.39376$xL3....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
It's true because I saw some stuff on the internet that showed all sorts of
concrete evidence pieced together in a manner that shows it's very likely to
be true.
Ted Perlman
Most of the above is fact and truth. How many times does your roof have to
leak before you fix the hole? Or are you a "hole-denier"?
TP
Steve Alleman
Jackass, "I saw some stuff on the internet" doesn't count. "Likely to be
true" doesn't count. Your original claim is that you were "sure that the
socialist politicians knew about this attack beforehand and let it happen
for political gain." That's still an outrageous charge, and now I guess we
know that it's bullshit.
BigSteve
Ted Perlman
You know what, you pig? I would vote for Bush again just to piss off all the
fools that voted for the Socialists in your country. When the foreign money
dries up, we'll see who the population votes for next time around.
We don't base our votes on what anybody in the world thinks, we make up our
own minds. Too bad you don't.
TP
Steve Alleman
> <Most of the above paragraph is paranoid delusion>
>
> Most of the above is fact and truth. How many times does your roof have to
> leak before you fix the hole? Or are you a "hole-denier"?
I deny that you have a grip on reality, and I do not advocate the killing of
all Muslims as you have done. It's such a ludicrous position that it's
pointless to argue.
Go ahead and advocate that we terminate terrorists with extreme prejudice,
but to advocate killing Muslims who have nothing to do with terrorism is
asinine.
BigSteve
dgkenney
>
> You know what, you pig? I would vote for Bush again just to piss off all
the
> fools that voted for the Socialists in your country.
Welcome back, Ted.
Dan
Ricky W. Hunt
news:MPG.1ac145fa5...@text.giganews.com...
>
> I agree. Arguing is pointless. We should stop talking about it and just
begin
> wasting the fucking cocklepickles.
> >
> >
> Some Muslims will be spared. The arab ones are toast. All orthodox
Muslims
> must convert to Christianity or be shot.
I am the only who thinks this sounds like the EXACT SAME ATTITUDE the
terrorists express?
Steve Alleman
Muslims
You
> get more Christians and umpteen victories against Satan to gloat about.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
BigSteve
PS. You're one sick fuck. Please seek professional help.
BlackHawk
news:TwO5c.28229$po.278236@attbi_s52...
I'm with you, Ricky.... BUT, there's an ingredient missing in the mix here,
that being all of our desires for the U.S. and World Muslim populations to
denounce the terrorists and terrorism itself.... but the dangers associated
with such denouncing are pretty evident: Any muslin who speaks out, whether
here or overseas, places his family (either residing here or overseas), in
grave danger of reprisals.
Like the good people in the U.N., "good muslims" worldwide are in great fear
of doing anything which might provoke terrorist reprisals against them and
their families.... so they feel they are better off sticking their heads in
the sand and praying for Allah to deliver them.... just as the U.N. does;.
...... meaning nothing gets done, and all sorts of deals are made with
terrorists (sort of like paying "protection" to gangsters was done in the
1920's), and those who will Not bargain with the terrorist devils will be
killed off over time, and the next generations (future) will be accustomed
to being in slavery and the concept of Freedom will have disappeared from
the planet..... and The Planet Of The Apes will become a reality.
Outside of That, everything's gonna be cool....
Bob Beals
RG Ver 2004a
declared a jihad against America. They want to kill us. They meet in
mosques. Hello? What's all this talk about muslims not having uniforms or
having an army entity? I think I know a target when I see one and I'm just
a civilian. It's time to declare war on Islam!
rg
--
I'll take Things Nobody Knows for $300, Alex.
"BlackHawk" <BobB...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:151e3fcc41a4d011...@news.teranews.com...