My new DAW.
Mitch Brink
I had never built a PC from ground-up before, but the whole thing went
from a pile of boxes to a working PC in about 3 hours (and a significant
chunk of that was formatting HD's).
I integrated the PC into my studio last night, and held my breath while
confirming that all MIDI and audio recorded, played back, and was in
sync.
The reason I'm posting this is to say that anyone thinking about
building should do it. My system costs right around $2000, and $600 of
that was the monitor!
Win 98 installed flawlessly, and I was impressed at how well all of my
PnP devices installed without conflict.
My system is: P2 400, 128 MB ram, 2 8.4 gig Maxtor 2880 drives, 32X
SCSI Toshiba CDROM, Matrox Millenium G200, Abit BH6 mobo, Antec full
tower case, SB Live. I already had a Gina, MQX32M, and Adaptec 2930
controller.
I know I saved a TON of money, and I know that all my components are
quality items.
Thanks also to the great people here who got me through the snags.
Now I can play Unreal. :-)
--
______________________________________________________________________
Mitch Brink, Composer/ Sound Designer
E-mail: mit...@ix.netcom.com
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/~mitchb2/
Marc Klaassen
Here's some more tips:
1) Don't use your DAW for Internet. In fact, don't use it for anything else
but music.
2) You could have saved more money if you'd bought the celeron instead of
the PII400
Happy recording,
Marc Klaassen
Amsterdam, the Netherlands
************************************************************************
listen to my latest Cakewalk
production at http://www.mp3.com/music/Rock/3149.html
*************************************************************************
Mitch Brink heeft geschreven in bericht <36555F32...@ix.netcom.com>...
pete leoni
My friends inform me that Unreal runs better and is more stable on the
Celeron @ 450.
pete
Enemy of Silence
Sean Garvin
Mitch Brink wrote:
>
>
> Now I can play Unreal. :-)
>
Bruce A. Richardson
be able to OC that thing to 532 MHz on a BH6.
Then you can tell Pete to go to hell. <g>
--
Bruce A. Richardson
Purple Iguana Productions
bandm...@sprynet.com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/purpleiguana
Mitch Brink wrote in message <36555F32...@ix.netcom.com>...
&|======{////}
pete leoni wrote in message
<01be149e$36630580$3753...@Pdemotech.ametro.net>...
>> >Now I can play Unreal. :-)
>
>Celeron @ 450.
Performance I can buy, but what do you mean by "more stable"? How is this
possible?
P. Bass
&|======{////}
pete leoni wrote in message
>The claim that game eats up cpu cycles so fast it gets weird. I don't know
>anything about it. I thought I'd yank a couple of PII chains just for fun.
>You are the first victim.
Heh, well then I guess we can officially categorize your statement as BS, as
Unreal runs just fine on a PII-266. It's also more a function of your vid
card than anything else. If your CPU is trying to do the job of fast 3D
rendering, of course it's going to choke, but with an hardware acceleration
card, like my voodoo2, it runs smoothly.
BTW, I think the Celeron 300A system is kickass, particularly on the
performance/price scale. Gonna build one myself soon.
See ya,
P. Bass
>&|======{////} <pb...@phatbass.com> wrote in article
><734ggj$p...@hope.harvard.net>...
pete leoni
anything about it. I thought I'd yank a couple of PII chains just for fun.
You are the first victim.
pete
pete leoni
When they start talking about frame rates and all of that crap, I have no
idea what the hell they mean. I've never done anything on a computer but
music, and occasional word processing etc. I do know that video card aside,
how well a computer runs Unreal is probably a pretty good indicator of
digital audio performance (The FPU factor I would assume is a big deal for
those games as well as for us.) What a waste of a perfectly good DAW<G>.
pete
Bruce A. Richardson
--
Bruce A. Richardson
Purple Iguana Productions
bandm...@sprynet.com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/purpleiguana
Bruce A. Richardson wrote in message <734eji$p...@hope.harvard.net>...
&|======{////}
Is it really possible to overclock to 532 though? That would be sweet!
P. Bass
Bruce A. Richardson wrote in message <734ngg$q...@hope.harvard.net>...
Garry Simmons
&|======{////} wrote in message <734nuv$q...@hope.harvard.net>...
>Too bad the P2-266 is in my LAPTOP!!! :)
>
>Is it really possible to overclock to 532 though? That would be sweet!
A 133MHz clock is supported, but doesn't that increase your other bus speeds
too?
Garry
Ted Perlman
Don't buy into Pete's madness.
Ted Perlman
Scott Vita
> Don't buy into Pete's madness.
Lest you wish for inexpensive gladness. <G>
Scott Vita
Radzi
Radzi.
Garry Simmons wrote in message <734qs9$q...@hope.harvard.net>...
pete leoni
wallets flatness.
Tom Steele - B93.7
<klaa...@poboxes.com> wrote:
>Congrats with your DAW.
>Here's some more tips:
>
>1) Don't use your DAW for Internet. In fact, don't use it for anything else
>but music.
Why on earth?
Computers have come far enough that you can have a STRONG performer of
a DAW and still load it up with word processing, internet access and
whatever else you want.
I know I do.
Tom Steele
Morning Show Host
B93.7 Radio (WFBC-FM)
Greenville, SC
Marc Klaassen
Computer performance is not the issue here.
When you use you DAW for other things than music you bring an amount of risk
into the equation.
Risk of messing up your finetuned configuration by some software-install,
viruses entering your almost completed song through the internet et cetera.
You don't want that when you're working on a project with a deadline.
I mean, there's a reason for calling it a DAW. Obviously the PC is dedicated
for digital audio stuff.
Marc P. Klaassen
Amsterdam, the Netherlands
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tom Steele - B93.7 heeft geschreven in bericht
<36566a19...@news.cakewalk.com>...
Frank Silano
Frank A. Silano
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
FrankenCat Productions
St. Petersburg, Florida
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Rockin' For Jesus!
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
http://frankencat.lovd.net
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
pete leoni
Marc Klaassen <klaa...@poboxes.com> wrote in article
<736ivg$6...@hope.harvard.net>...
Ted Perlman
You know, we're not talking about generic drugs here. We're talking about a
proven high end reliable (as reliable as is possible, I guess) chip made by
the world's leader as opposed to their "budget line" product. If your music
and work is as important to you as mine is, then why not get the best,
instead of trying to save a few bucks. Believe me, a reliable system will
make you back 10 times the amount you save.
All this "save a few bucks, buy the cheapest you can get" doesn't make any
sense to me. And unlike a majority of the readers here, I am a professional
in the music business, not a Sunday Rider.
Ted Perlman
pete leoni
to take the place of all PII chips up to 400 Mhz. The core of the Celeron A
chip is far advanced from the older PII core and is in fact more akin to
the top of the line Xeon which is aimed at high speed servers. The older
PII chips have L2 cache that is not located on the same piece of silicone
as the main cpu at all, and cannot scale to the same speed as the processor
itself as can the Celeron A L2 cache, which is cut from the same piece of
silicone as the main cpu, and can run at full processor speed. We are
benefiting from market pressure on Intel which caused them to release this
tech a bit earlier than they had intended, these are facts, widely
acknowledged around the industry, and not my personal opinions. The Celeron
A chips will soon be released in the 400 Mhz range using the *exact same
core* as the one on the Celeron A chip we are using now, and which has been
on enough of our computers now to begin to establish a good track record
for reliability.
Do the research
pete
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<737gls$9...@hope.harvard.net>...
Scott Vita
> You know, we're not talking about generic drugs here. We're talking about
a
> proven high end reliable (as reliable as is possible, I guess) chip made
by
> the world's leader as opposed to their "budget line" product. If your
music
> and work is as important to you as mine is, then why not get the best,
> instead of trying to save a few bucks. Believe me, a reliable system will
> make you back 10 times the amount you save.
Ted, you've always claimed that DAW systems in general are too unreliable
for use in a professional environment. Now you are going to tell me what
chip to use? <G>
It's almost 1999. Get hip with the technology.
Scott Vita
Ben N. Moore
<ted...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> I am a professional
>in the music business, not a Sunday Rider.
That's why your opinion is misleading, Ted. As far as any of us know,
you have yet to start using a DAW (high or low end). We know about the
Dell failure and the ThinkPad, but what is your opinion based on? This
is not intended as a flame. To quote Marvin the paranoid android, "I
ask only for purposes of information?"
Ben N. Moore
pete leoni
Were Ted to assemble one of these systems or get Jim, or I (although I
rarely have the time myself ) to make one for him his tune would no doubt
change. I have noted in the past when Ted tried new tech and was
able to coax it to function properly, he generally becomes it's
chief proponent. I think my friend Ted enjoys being a maverick, and will
cling to his "maverickness' till he has no other choice. He sees computer
audio as the "Borg". "You will be assimilated Ted, resistance is futile"
<G>
pete
Ted Perlman
When your "el cheapo, homemade" system is still working in 1999, then I
suppose I'll "get hip". Until then, I'll stay working.
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
end).>
During the year I work on:
1.Pro Tools based DAWs
2.Cakewalk Audio based computer DAWS
3.Digital Performer DAWS
4.Sonic Solutions Mixing software on a DAW
5.Logic Audio Platinum on a DAW
6.etc...etc...etc....
Plus Sony 48 digital, Mitsubishi digital, ADATs, Tascam D98/88, 2" 24 track
analog machines, etc....
As far as 'any of us' know, I'm Carlos the Jackal. What's your point? That I
should jump into this latest "build it yourself using the cheapest parts you
can get" fallacy. I use ALL platforms and ALL technologies, which is where I
get my opinions regarding reliability, etc. My own personal choice NOT to
put my business at risk by hoping the hard drive or Cellery A chip will not
have an "error" causing a once in a lifetime vocal or instrumental
performance to disappear is, I feel at this time, a valid one.
Ted Perlman
John Vernon
<ted...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>We're talking about a
>proven high end reliable (as reliable as is possible, I guess) chip made by
>the world's leader as opposed to their "budget line" product. If your music
>and work is as important to you as mine is, then why not get the best,
Ted, your theory is fine, your priorities are spot on, but in this
specific case your facts on the Celeron are not: Pete summed it up
well in his reply: the Celeron 300a chip is better, more recent
silicon than most PIIs and as good as the Xeon.
I have now built 4 Celeron/BH6 systems, three are in working pro
studios, and even if mine is in my basement studio and I have a day
job, that gives me access to inside Intel, Microsoft etc. info that I
value for my DAW work. I get paid to equip pro shops, so like you I
can't afford to take risks. Some overclocking is running technology
on the bleeding edge, hence risky, running a Celeron at 450 MHz is not
for well established technical reasons.
Talking about reliability, you run far more risk of problems with any
Microsoft or other OS than upping a Celeron. Buy your PII if you
must, you'll still have to risk running the OS, and that's where most
of the problems come in.
John Vernon
Musique Animation
JohnV...@compuserve.com
Ted Perlman
resistance is futile>
I rather think of myself as Picard, who was assimilated but saw the light
and came back. I'm just avoiding the bad trip, so to say.
Ted Perlman
Scott Vita
> During the year I work on:
What system are you using in YOUR studio? Are you doing audio on your PC?
>What's your point? That I should jump into this latest "build it yourself
using the cheapest parts you
>can get" fallacy.
No one has suggested that. Pay attention Ted.
>. My own personal choice NOT to
> put my business at risk by hoping the hard drive or Cellery A chip will
not
> have an "error" causing a once in a lifetime vocal or instrumental
> performance to disappear is, I feel at this time, a valid one.
You can do as you wish but advising others on this NG not to take
advantage of good advice in choosing components only demonstrates your lack
of knowledge in this regard.
Scott Vita
pete leoni
in order to get a reliable system, as the major manufacturers do not
produce computers optimized for digital audio at all, a fact that you have
pointed out yourself in posts and articles. Thus, for the time being the
construction of PC DAW's will remain a "Cottage industry",with research and
progress occurring in focus groups like this one. (in fact this NG may well
be the best PC audio "think tank" on the Web. Only some of us who have
chosen to use the Celeron A chips have done so for reasons of economics, I
for one was ready to purchase a 450 PII when I discovered the Celeron A
would outperform this chip by a pretty fair margin. Futher research
revealed that far from being a "bargain chip" An overclocked Celeron A was
not only viable, but the best possible way to get cutting edge performance
at this time. I admit that I'm a big "More For Less"proponent, but I will
open my wallet when I feel I should. I didn't see the point in spending
$600 more for an inferior product. As to reliability, these chips run
mighty cool. I expect my ol' Celery will be still be running in this
machine a few years from now, when this computer belongs to my wife or
kids, and I am using whatever seems to be the fastest chip available then.
Best,
pete
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<738n21$d...@hope.harvard.net>...
pete leoni
Funny you don't look French. ,<G>
> and came back. I'm just avoiding the bad trip, so to say.
But the rest of us will go where no man has gone before, but many more will
wisely follow.
Live long and Prosper.
pete
mike baker
has a valid point in that it's worth it to see how many dead guinea pigs
there are first. The other fellow has a valid point about not adding
internet goop to his DAW, too, as we are now entering the era of certain
doom... Java Viruses! Migrainsoft is bad enuff without pizzing them off!
<g>
--
"I am reminded of an old song about taking a job
and then what you can do with it."
Ken Starr to Impeachment Hearing - November 19, 1998
Ted Perlman
You guys have made the best argument I've ever seen for getting a MAC. A MAC
is a MAC is a MAC. One chip, the end. What's next for you guys? Radio Shack
do it yourself computer kits with the new KMart 550 chips that can be
overclocked to infinity?
Perhaps I should rewrite my EM letter, which was written before all this
Celeron/AMD/Packard Bell bull became malignant.
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
I give up. Good luck to you all.
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
wisely follow.>
You're gonna end up like "Voyager", aimlessly floating around the Delta
Quadrant with no way home. In case you didn't notice, the Celeron "Slip
Stream" didn't work very well.
(if you're not a Trek fan, this will make no sense at all...)
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
Logic Audio Platinum 3.6. Works great. I basically use it (the audio part)
for reference vocals and guitar tracks and reference tracks for remixes.
<Pay attention Ted.>
Yes, teacher.
<but advising others on this NG not to take advantage of good advice in
choosing components only demonstrates your lack of knowledge in this regard>
I think I have too much knowledge in this regard, thank you. I advise others
to buy a computer at a store or place where they get a service agreement,
which you all seem to forget, is what you get in order to get the computer
you buy fixed when it breaks, which they all eventually do. Home made is
maybe for a guy who knows how to fix it, but all this build it yourself
stuff makes me sick. Telling a guy who can barely get online or play any
instrument to make his own computer is, in my opinion, a prescription for
disaster that, it seems, most folks here have overdosed on.
Ted Perlman
pete leoni
other small organizations that specialize in these DAW's
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<73c2nq$o...@hope.harvard.net>...
Ted Perlman
and even if mine is in my basement studio and I have a day job, that gives
me access to inside Intel, Microsoft etc. info that I
value for my DAW work. I get paid to equip pro shops, so like you I can't
afford to take risks. Some overclocking is running technology on the
bleeding edge, hence risky, running a Celeron at 450 MHz is not for well
established technical reasons.>
Like I said to Pete, I wish you all lots of luck. I give.
Ted Perlman
pete leoni
chips*, and only a scant few who didn't make it to 450, (1 or 2, I believe)
and they are going fine @ 300. Along with the BX chipset and fast SDRAM,
multipage memory, 300 MHZ still smokes. Celeron "The Next Generation"
pete
Bob Sweet
> You're gonna end up like "Voyager", aimlessly floating around the Delta
> Quadrant with no way home. In case you didn't notice, the Celeron "Slip
> Stream" didn't work very well.
>
> (if you're not a Trek fan, this will make no sense at all...)
>
> Ted Perlman
I sent myself a message back through time with the confiscated Borg
technology and decided to stay with my PII 266. I can get 30+ tracks,
although I do have a few Borg implants and nano probes, and when my
holo emitters are setup properly I can get as many tracks as I need, or
at least it looks that way.
--
Bob Sweet
Sweet Sound Electronics, Inc.
http://www.sweetsound.com
pete leoni
prime directive, which as you know dictates that we are unable to share
advanced technologies with the inferior PII species or otherwise alter
their course in history in any way. <G>
Jean Luc Goldstien
Scott Vita
> I think I have too much knowledge in this regard, thank you. I advise
others
> to buy a computer at a store or place where they get a service agreement,
> which you all seem to forget, is what you get in order to get the
computer
> you buy fixed when it breaks, which they all eventually do. Home made is
> maybe for a guy who knows how to fix it, but all this build it yourself
> stuff makes me sick.
I will admit you make some valid points. Rolling your own is not for
everyone. We are fortunate to have guys on this NG who can build a reliable
and cost effective DAW for those who are less ambitious. However, if you
are fairly handy and are willing to do some research it's really not all
that difficult.
I like the custom built concept. I have a custom built strat that is far
better than what Fender is currently offering. I take comfort in the fact
that I chose every piece right down to the screws that hold it together. I
did choose to have it put together and finished by an expert luthier
because I was afraid I would bunk it up. PCs on the other hand do not scare
me.
> Telling a guy who can barely get online or play any
> instrument to make his own computer
Oh, c'mon Ted. I know you are quite proficient in both of those areas. <G>
Scott Vita
Ted Perlman
currently offering>
Roger Sadowsky did to my Fender Strat 12 years ago what I would have screwed
up. And the fact that it's never been to the shop since 1986 is testament to
the fact that I made the right decision. And yes, it gets played every day.
Imagine if I had Pete next to me saying:
"Go ahead - build it yourself. They have new, el cheapo pickups that are
just as good as the Duncans. And who says you can't do your own frets?"
I can fix most anything - TV's, radios, stereos, synths, guitars (!), wire
an entire studio and have no noise, build a friggin' extension on a house -
anything except a car. I choose not to where my livelihood is at stake. I
don't believe in do it yourself when it comes to something as important as
my computer or guitars.
Ted Perlman
pete leoni
> anything except a car.
Mitch Brink
> Imagine if I had Pete next to me saying:
>
> "Go ahead - build it yourself. They have new, el cheapo pickups that are
> just as good as the Duncans. And who says you can't do your own frets?"
Mmm....we're not talking about a learned craft or artform here. You should have
seen the mess I made trying to finish drywall. For $400 the guy came in, undid
my mess, and did an awesome job. Now THAT was money well spent. :-) And I
don't tune my own piano, either.
But building a PC involves reading some very simple instructions and carefully
hooking everything up. It no more difficult than buying a mixer and some gear
and figuring out how to get it all working together, and everyone here can do
that.
--
______________________________________________________________________
Mitch Brink, Composer/ Sound Designer
E-mail: mit...@ix.netcom.com
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/~mitchb2/
Scott Vita
> "Go ahead - build it yourself. They have new, el cheapo pickups that are
> just as good as the Duncans. And who says you can't do your own frets?"
Remember Ted, Seymour Duncan got his start by doing "homemade" pickups.
Also, a fret job requires far more skill, tools and practice than putting a
PC together.
Scott Vita
pete leoni
Sometimes, it seems the very word "Computer" is enough to send some
people (I'm sure Ted is not one of them) into a panic. You are correct,
this is not
rocket science anymore, and anyone who is truly serious about using a
computer as a primary tool in any occupation should certainly be capable of
these relatively simple assembly procedures, as so many of you have proved
already. The assembly of a computer is a lot less taxing than the ongoing
procedure of configuration, something that anyone using a computer has done
or will have to do anytime software or hardware is changed or added.
This (the computer industry) is an interesting industry, one in which
the market is so fluid that it is next to impossible for most people to
keep up with which
components are "high quality" and which components are "El cheapo" as Ted
says. Who can really blame Ted, or anyone else for being mis-informed in
this strange era with the technology advancing so rapidly, and the price of
that technology making an equally rapid descent. The old adage "You get
what you pay for" is getting harder and harder to use as a paradigm when
the state of the art,
and the commiserate price of it are both in such a state of flux. All of
this is
very good for the informed consumer, and pretty confusing to the less
informed.
Apparently it is also somewhat of a paradox for the manufacturers of these
components when due to market pressures, they must quickly release a new
and
superior product at a price dramatically lower than their previous
"flagship" product still lingering on the shelves. Is it any wonder some
people are dazed and confused! Even the manufacturers don't know what to
say to their complaining distributors who have shelves full of a recent
"top of the line" product which has been quickly rendered obsolete! We've
all seen this occur in soundcards, we've seen it in harddrives, and now
CPU's. It's only getting more and more difficult for us to stay abreast.
Perhaps the old adage "You get what you pay for" should be amended to:
"You get what you pay for this week, but next week it's anybody's guess" My
advice is always buy the product with the very highest price, performance
and quality ratio, but don't make the mistake of *directly* equating price
with quality and performance, that seems, at least where computers are
concerned, a quick way to get burned in this
day and age.
pete
Mitch Brink <mit...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
Ken Burton
>just as good as the Duncans. And who says you can't do your own >frets?"
I guess that means I better yard out those frets I put in my 79 Paul and 76
Guild S100.<g> My guitars are my livelihood that's why I learned how to work
on them. Building computers on the other hand, I wouldn't have a clue. I say
if you can, do it. If you can't, pay someone else to.
Ken Burton
Michael Elliott (a.k.a. Amberwolf)
>is a MAC is a MAC. One chip, the end.
Just to put one more irrelevancy in here, the Mac's actually use a few
different chips, from the original 68000, 68020, 68030, and 68040, up
to the PowerPC 601, 603, 603e, to the G3 in the newest ones.....
(The PowerPC601 in my PowerMac 6100/60AV is made by IBM....not
Motorola, not Intel, not Cyrix, and not AMD....so there.....)
Any computer you can use for what you do is good enough, and since
that varies by job, individual, and time, everybody's opinion will be
different....
(I use PII's, Pmmx's, Pclassic's, 68000's, 68020's, PPC601's, i486's,
Amd486's, Amd5x86's, and even a Cyrix5x86 in my various PC's, Amiga,
Mac's, Sampler/synth's. Some I built, some I bought. They all do
the jobs I have put them to use for.)
Michael Elliott (a.k.a. Amberwolf)
Opporknockity Tunes Studios, Uninked
Ben N. Moore
<ted...@pacbell.net> wrote:
><As far as any of us know, you have yet to start using a DAW (high or low
>end).>
>
>During the year I work on:
>
>1.Pro Tools based DAWs
>2.Cakewalk Audio based computer DAWS
>3.Digital Performer DAWS
>4.Sonic Solutions Mixing software on a DAW
>5.Logic Audio Platinum on a DAW
>6.etc...etc...etc....
>
>Plus Sony 48 digital, Mitsubishi digital, ADATs, Tascam D98/88, 2" 24 track
>analog machines, etc....
>
>As far as 'any of us' know, I'm Carlos the Jackal. What's your point? That I
>should jump into this latest "build it yourself using the cheapest parts you
>can get" fallacy. I use ALL platforms and ALL technologies, which is where I
>get my opinions regarding reliability, etc. My own personal choice NOT to
>put my business at risk by hoping the hard drive or Cellery A chip will not
>have an "error" causing a once in a lifetime vocal or instrumental
>performance to disappear is, I feel at this time, a valid one.
>
>Ted Perlman
>
Okay, Carlos. I was going to let this go, hence the late reply, but
having already been branded a total dick by you a while back, I see no
reason to remain polite. I understand that as a producer you would
come into contact with several platforms frequently. I also don't
condone using the cheapest parts. As recently as two years ago Maxtor
was making fine door stops. I still don't trust them. The reason I
question you disseminating advice on computer hardware boils down to a
quibble over your use of the word "parallel" in regards to the
Unitor8. MIDI being a serial protocol aside, one need only look at the
back panel of the Unitor8 to see that to claim it does anything in
parallel is utter and complete bullshit. Both the RS232 and the RS422
are serial interfaces. I'm not saying that it isn't a fine piece of
hardware, it's just not possible for it to do anything in parallel.
FWIW they will stack with a Mac because the RS422 incorporates 5
transmitters and 10 receivers, the RS232 has one each. If Emagic would
allow for a second instance of the driver for the PC, you could
probably use two if you had an available serial port and IRQ.
Anyone requiring verification is invited to read up on the
RS232/RS422/RS485 Specification at http://www.rs-485.com/spec.htm .
For more information than you probably want to know about parallel
ports a good source of information is available at
http://www.fapo.com/ieee1284.htm .
Ben N. Moore
&|======{////}
Ted Perlman wrote in message <734sa0$q...@hope.harvard.net>...
><Gonna build one myself soon.>.
>
>Don't buy into Pete's madness.
Not even if I wanna run more tracks with more simultaneous effects for
cheap? Hmmm.....
P. Bass
&|======{////}
Ted Perlman wrote in message <73cqou$8...@hope.harvard.net>...
>anything except a car. I choose not to where my livelihood is at stake. I
>don't believe in do it yourself when it comes to something as important as
>my computer or guitars.
I just built a guitar from the Carvin kit. It's absolutely beautiful, and
playing something you put together yourself is a nice feeling.
See ya,
P. Bass
Ted Perlman
<your use of the word "parallel" in regards to the Unitor8>
I wasn't talking about which port it gets the data from (serial or
parallel), but the way it distributes the midi data to the outputs. Instead
of passing it "serially" to the ports, making port 8 get the data later than
port 1, it passes the data to all ports at the same time, hence the term
parallel.
Now I remember why I thought you were a dick........
<g>
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
is a nice feeling>
For what it's worth, I have a friend ( a famous studio/live bass player) who
endorses Carvin. They give him as many basses and amps as he wants. But he
still keeps playing that Fender......
(please, this is no slam on your new guitar. I just really believe that some
things are better made by experts, and I'm certainly no expert at building a
guitar or computer. Pete probably will be coming out with a kit that'll let
you build a Fender Mustang guitar for $50.00, and then overload the pickups
and frets - turning it into a full blown Stratocaster. Yeah, right....)
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
cheap?>
"Cheap" and "Run" being the operative words here......
Ted Perlman
&|======{////}
Ted Perlman wrote in message <740nsf$1...@hope.harvard.net>...
><It's absolutely beautiful, and playing something you put together yourself
>is a nice feeling>
>
>For what it's worth, I have a friend ( a famous studio/live bass player)
who
>endorses Carvin. They give him as many basses and amps as he wants. But he
>still keeps playing that Fender......
Woooo :) So your friend is a sell out?
>(please, this is no slam on your new guitar. I just really believe that
some
>things are better made by experts, and I'm certainly no expert at building
a
>guitar or computer. Pete probably will be coming out with a kit that'll let
I hear ya, but theres this dude I know that among other things is good at
setting up guitars. He set up my bass to be silky smooth, even better than
the "experts" at GC or Fender for that matter. I trust that after I sand
the guitar body, apply the weed green strain, sand it down, bolt on the
neck, shield the inside of the body, connect the trem, bolt in the neck
hardware, put in the pickups and the pickguard and string it up... that this
dude can set it up to play nice. OK, now lets put what we've learned in an
easy to understand context:
quality parts + good instructions + attentive assembly = kickass product
This applys to guitars, computers, whatever...
I know you weren't busting on my guitar, but I'm just challenging the notion
that experts need to produce a product. Hey, maybe we're all experts in our
own way. Maybe you can play my new guitar sometime :)
Peace,
P. Bass
pete leoni
>Pete probably will be coming out with a kit
that'll let
pickups
> and frets - turning it into a full blown Stratocaster. Yeah, right....)
>
> Ted Perlman
>
Sorry no kit's but here is some useful info instead
The Celeron A, and the Xeon (Mendecino core) represents the current state
of the art in CPU's.
The PII chips are somewhat inferior, use older technology and produce more
heat then the Mendecino chips @ the same speed, they (the PII's) are also
somewhat hobbled by the placement of the L2 cache offboard the main
processor. You should always use the best processor available to get the
maximum amount of Direct-X effects. The PII is somewhat slower and with
less FPU than a Celeron A @ the same clock rate, with the AMD, and Cyrix
chips slower still and capable of even less FPU performance. When it comes
to processors *always buy the best you can afford regardless of price.* We
are very lucky at this point in time that Intel has strangely made it
possible to have the very best, but not pay a premium price. I do not look
for this situation to continue as this is now wide spread knowledge and
entire systems are now starting to be offered utilizing Celeron A @ clocked
to 450. If you want to take the big leap from ADAT's to DAW based
recording (Yes this means you too ted) don't compromise, use the best, and
if you are incapable of assembling the system yourself, or just simply
don't have the time, there are reputable firms (such as Jim Roseberry's
Studiocat Soft/Hardware) that will ship them pre assembled using components
(such as the Celeron A) which are proven to be most stable reliable, and
best for the task of "totally DAW based recording"
Pete
Pandamonium Records
of cache better than a celeron 300a overclocked?
pete leoni wrote in message
<01be1d4f$3a26dd40$Loca...@Pdemotech.ametro.net>...
pete leoni
Both are Mendecino at the core. The Xeon however a slot 2 chip requiring an
entirely different MOBO.
pete
Pandamonium Records <tm...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<742bnc$e...@hope.harvard.net>...
dracula
>
> So the Xeon has the cache onboard the chip at full speed like the celeron
> 300a? Is anyone here using the xeon with Cakewalk?..Todd
> pete leoni wrote in message
I've used a dual xeon for video editing with Nt,
and it is the fastest thing out there for programs
that utilize multithreaded cpu usage.
I have a celery 300a @450 for audio - which I've yet to
max out with real time effects -way fast enough for me -
D.
Pandamonium Records
Ted Perlman
that will ship them pre assembled using components such as the Celeron A>
When I buy a DAW from Jim if he puts a Celer-shit chip in it, I'll walk it
back to Ohio and make him eat it.
Ted Perlman
Mitch Brink
You won't make it on foot. Here in Southern Ohia we shoot anyone who looks
like they're from Kalifornya.
Ted Perlman
Kalifornya.>
I've got family in Columbus. You'll never even notice me. Especially in
their neighborhood. <g>
From my secret vantage point, I'll be able to mount my attack on Jim
unnoticed by anybody.
Ted Perlman
Mitch Brink
> <I've got family in Columbus. You'll never even notice me. Especially in
> their neighborhood. <g>
> From my secret vantage point, I'll be able to mount my attack on Jim
> unnoticed by anybody.
>
My wife mangled our Honda on what LOOKED like a deer this morning....was
that YOU?
pete leoni
long as it is still available. There is an old adage that applies here.
"The customer is always right"
The PII is not a bad chip at all, it's just not the best at this time, Your
performance using a PII would not suffer greatly, plus you can write off
the extra expense, so it's not all bad.
pete
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<74312s$i...@hope.harvard.net>...
> <there are reputable firms such as Jim Roseberry's Studiocat
Soft/Hardware)
> that will ship them pre assembled using components such as the Celeron A>
>
> When I buy a DAW from Jim if he puts a Celer-shit chip in it, I'll walk
it
> back to Ohio and make him eat it.
>
> Ted Perlman
>
>
>
>
>
Ted Perlman
Nope, Rudolph the Red Nosed Celeron.
Hopefully, he's really dead.
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
<as long as it is still available>
Hopefully, in a week or so I won't have to hear any more of this el cheapo
is better than the real thing bullshit.
Ted Perlman
Jeremy Taylor
Sonic Solutions
WWW.Sonicsolutions.com
but you'll have to give up cakewalk.
and your life savings.
Jeremy Taylor
CDAW Systems
Ted Perlman wrote in message <744ki5$g...@hope.harvard.net>...
Ted Perlman
<Sonic Solutions>
I just mastered an album in that. What a great program. Not a glitch. And
the funny part was that the guy was running it on a MAC Quadra 800. Not a
high end computer by any means. The program didn't burp once through the
whole album. And the results sounded great. Plus, I use Logic, so I wouldn't
have to give up anything. If Pete keeps talking all this crap about cheaper
is better and Intel's conspiracy, I will have no qualms at all about buying
a MAC and keeping my PC for word processing and Internet. At least I know an
Apple is an Apple. If you buy the best G3, then that's the best G3.
Not "buy an Apple Performa because it's better than a G3. You see, MAC
messed up and put the nuclear chips in the Performa's accidentally, and we
can all reap the rewards for only $750.00!!!"
Yeah, right.
Ted Perlman
pete leoni
are ways of overclocking Mac processors as well as '86 derivatives. BTW I
have used Pro Tools and it truly is a great system. In fact if I had the
resources and the time to devote to learning all of the nuances of that
particular setup, I might indeed be tempted myself.
I'm sorry you seem to be so confused by these posts cause you to purchase a
Mac, or that you have concluded or at least be flummoxed enough to wonder
how could "cheaper be better". The fact is cheaper, as a general rule, is
not better. For some, that is a good point to keep in mind because there
are individuals, especially for those who are not too technically adept,
or who do not care to take the time to research a given subject, who need
the old maxim of "You get what you pay for"as a guideline. Living by those
words can keep those individuals out of trouble. For some it really it is
best to "color in the lines" and stay safe. For others, such as most of the
people on this newsgroup, only the cutting edge will do, at least where
computers are concerned.
It is interesting to note the "retro" look of the new I-Mac, and also
that the fastest speed of apple's CPU is far below the current standard for
PC users. One could easily speculate that the Mac is solidly aimed at the
particular type of individual outlined in the text above.
pete
Kevin Perry
This thread has been entertaining so I thought you would find this interesting.
Celeron 300a PII
300mhz
Icomp
296 332
SYSMark32 243
312
CPUMark32 612
769
FPUMark (!!!!) 1590
1540
Best price from
$88 $225
pricewatch.com
I will merely present the facts and leave you everyone to draw their own
conclusions. <g> ...factoring in the "overclockability" of the 300a to
450...the price...the FPU results which mean alot to us audio folks..
.
Kevin Perry
Kevin Perry wrote:
> For Ted, Pete and everyone...here are some specs STRAIGHT from Intel's website.
> This thread has been entertaining so I thought you would find this interesting.
>
> Celeron 300a PII
> 300mhz
>
> Icomp
> 296 332
> SYSMark32 243 312
> CPUMark32 612 769
> FPUMark (!!!!) 1590 1540
>
> Best price
> $88 $225
pete leoni
pete
Kevin Perry <ckev...@aol.com> wrote in article
<36664CBA...@aol.com>...
> For Ted, Pete and everyone...here are some specs STRAIGHT from Intel's
website.
> This thread has been entertaining so I thought you would find this
interesting.
>
> Celeron 300a
PII
> 300mhz
>
> Icomp
> 296 332
> SYSMark32 243
> 312
> CPUMark32 612
> 769
> FPUMark (!!!!) 1590
> 1540
>
> Best price from
> $88 $225
> pricewatch.com
>
> I will merely present the facts and leave you everyone to draw their own
> conclusions. <g> ...factoring in the "overclockability" of the 300a to
> 450...the price...the FPU results which mean alot to us audio folks..
>
> .
>
>
>
pete leoni
Intel loaded the deck the favor of the PII.
PII uses SCSI HD (Seagate ST34501W) that's a 7200rpm Cheetah drive ,
Celeron IDE Drive (Seagate ST32122A) that's a 4500rpm IDE drive. PII used
Matrox Milennium card with 4Mb, Celeron used an ATI Rage Pro with 2Mb. PII
used a 32X Toshiba CD-ROM, Celeron a Goldstar 24X.
All of these are going to affect Winstone 98.
Take a look for yourself. Compare:
http://developer.intel.com/procs/perf/PentiumII/windows_config.htm to
http://developer.intel.com/procs/perf/basicpc/windows_config.htm
pete leoni
What explains the discrepancy in the relationship of Celeron 300a and
PII-300?
Answer:
Intel loaded the deck the favor of the PII. Look below at different
testbeds
PII uses SCSI HD (Seagate ST34501W) that's a 7200rpm Cheetah drive ,
Celeron IDE Drive (Seagate ST32122A) that's a 4500rpm IDE drive. PII used
Matrox Milennium card with 4Mb, Celeron used an ATI Rage Pro with 2Mb. PII
used a 32X Toshiba CD-ROM, Celeron a Goldstar 24X.
All of these are going to affect Winstone 98.
Take a look for yourself. Compare:
http://developer.intel.com/procs/perf/PentiumII/windows_config.htm to
http://developer.intel.com/procs/perf/basicpc/windows_config.htm
Kevin Perry <ckev...@aol.com> wrote in article
<36664EEB...@aol.com>...
> Damn browser screwed up my pretty chart!!! let me try this
again..........
>
> Kevin Perry wrote:
>
> > For Ted, Pete and everyone...here are some specs STRAIGHT from Intel's
website.
> > This thread has been entertaining so I thought you would find this
interesting.
> >
> > Celeron 300a
PII
> > 300mhz
> >
> > Icomp
> > 296 332
> > SYSMark32 243
312
> > CPUMark32 612
769
> > FPUMark (!!!!) 1590
1540
> >
> > Best price
> > $88 $225
Ted Perlman
Thanks, Kevin for posting those figures. Unfortunately, I don't know what
any of that shit means.
Sorry.
Peace,
Ted Perlman
Ted Perlman
You've just got to get off this "conspiracy theory" thing. Some things are
just the way they are.
Ted Perlman
pete leoni
Obviously Intel would rather sell the old stock of PII's @ a much higher
price than the Celeron A this is simple economics, a child can make this
deduction! I'm sure Intel is gonna go "here is the PII @ >$ and Oh BTW, we
just came out with this new chip at a <$ that slightly outperforms it. Here
we'll show you look at this chart that makes us lose money" Intel is in
business to make money! It happens more often than not in this industry
that the new models * both outperform and cost less* than the previous
models, of course Intel would like to sell the older PII stock, plus
manufacture enough others to get as much mileage from the marketing
campaign as possible. what is likely to happen here is the Celeron name
will be shifted to socket 370, using the Mendecino core and the 66 Mhz bus
and the next round of PII's will be: You guessed it ! The Mendecino core
now "officially" running @ 100mhz FSB (just as we are doing now) and
marketed as TA DA *The PII* ! Jeez this is a no brainer. Go to any
independent source and check the benchmarks.
pete
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<746nq7$7...@hope.harvard.net>...
David Alvarado
Ted Perlman
<Because they are afraid to get better>
That's it. You figured it out.
Ted Perlman
Scott Vita
> Some things are just the way they are.
Because they are afraid to get better?
Scott Vita
Jeremy Taylor
will still use cakewalk /D-90's and an Adat in the small room, and for all
midi. The sales people I've been talking to are quoting me a system based on
a DEC system, with outboard raid.
I think were up to $23,000 with 24Channels of A/D/A 24/96.
I thought Apple stopped making the performas.
JT
Ted Perlman wrote in message <7457ij$o...@hope.harvard.net>...
>
><Sonic Solutions>
>
>I just mastered an album in that. What a great program. Not a glitch. And
>the funny part was that the guy was running it on a MAC Quadra 800. Not a
>high end computer by any means. The program didn't burp once through the
>whole album. And the results sounded great. Plus, I use Logic, so I
wouldn't
>have to give up anything. If Pete keeps talking all this crap about cheaper
>is better and Intel's conspiracy, I will have no qualms at all about buying
Jeremy Taylor
How many will we see touting the PII?
I don't really want to know the answer, I'm just trying to amplifiy your
point.
JT
pete leoni wrote in message
<01be1ede$2d61a6e0$5090...@Pdemotech.ametro.net>...
>Answer:
>
>
>Intel loaded the deck the favor of the PII.
>
>
>PII uses SCSI HD (Seagate ST34501W) that's a 7200rpm Cheetah drive ,
>Celeron IDE Drive (Seagate ST32122A) that's a 4500rpm IDE drive. PII used
>Matrox Milennium card with 4Mb, Celeron used an ATI Rage Pro with 2Mb. PII
>used a 32X Toshiba CD-ROM, Celeron a Goldstar 24X.
>
>All of these are going to affect Winstone 98.
>
>
>
>Take a look for yourself. Compare:
>http://developer.intel.com/procs/perf/PentiumII/windows_config.htm to
>http://developer.intel.com/procs/perf/basicpc/windows_config.htm
>
>Kevin Perry <ckev...@aol.com> wrote in article
><36664CBA...@aol.com>...
>> For Ted, Pete and everyone...here are some specs STRAIGHT from Intel's
>website.
>> This thread has been entertaining so I thought you would find this
>interesting.
>>
>> Celeron 300a
> PII
>> 300mhz
>>
>> Icomp
>> 296 332
>> SYSMark32 243
>> 312
>> CPUMark32 612
>> 769
>> FPUMark (!!!!) 1590
>> 1540
>>
>> Best price from
>> $88 $225
>> pricewatch.com
>>
>> I will merely present the facts and leave you everyone to draw their own
>> conclusions. <g> ...factoring in the "overclockability" of the 300a to
>> 450...the price...the FPU results which mean alot to us audio folks..
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>