head sail

[Jamie opus CR38 #26]

Good day all. Last week Opus took us for a great ride. 20 knot winds 8 foot waves and the occasional gust hitting 28 knots, lots of fun to say the least.

The head sail did not like it so much at the end of the day the leach line had ripped through  it's pocket and a large tear. The next day out came the sewing machine. Sailrite really dose make a great tool but the jib was determined not to make things easy.

It was quite apparent this tired old sail needs replacement. Think this one is going to cost a few boat dollars.

So here is the question. I have a 1980 38 and for some reason the sheet track is to far forward to be able to flatten the foot properly. In looking at newer model 38 the track is at the gate or below the winch, on opus it is forward of the gate. we have a high cut yankee and it seams to pull well if I sheet from a pully at the back of the boat to flatten the foot but the pully is a temporary fix.So I have 2 options lower the foot on the new sail or extend the track. I have herd it is hard to tack a full 150 through the slot and where I sail we tack quite often. but does it give more power than the yankee and what about down wind performance. I think the 150 would be better.

As you can see I'm a little confused and I would like to get this rite the first time.

Jamie

[Gmail]

A high cut 135 is what you want. And if you go with a Yankee, you need the tracks forward more, not aft for better sail shape. The smaller the sail the more forward they need to be. Mine don't go nearly far enough forward but they come way aft as you mention. But with a high cut 135 your tracks would be fine. 

Ron Acierno, PhD
Professor and Associate Dean for Research
Medical University of South Carolina
College of Nursing, Room 500
99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
Charleston SC 29425-1600

P: (843) 792-2949
F: (843) 792-1741
acierno@musc.edu
http://www.musc.edu/nursing

MUSC Nurses Change Lives!

Sent from my iPhone

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[gregry melnechuk]

You are probably not going to be happy going forward and having to manually pull the 150 through the slot every time you tack.  You may want to consider an asymmetrical spinakker for down wind sailing.  

--

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

One more vote for high-cut 135. I've had both, and I had to move forward to tack the 150. In addition the additional stress of pulling all that sail across the inner forestay reduced the life of the sail quite a bit.

On the 135 yankee: does anyone have any idea how high the clew is? I remember some talk about moving up to the mast and holding your hands up high enough to reach it or something.

That said, I"m also in the market for a new headsail, Jamie, so interested in what you're going with. I'm probably going to price one from Rolly Tasker when I get the dimensions :)

mickey

[Jamie opus CR38 #26]

This is my first yankee and I think it is a 135, not sure I understand the track forward thing as you can't point to wind without luffing.Oh by the way Ron the main worked great I sure like the shape I can get out of it. I am now a firm believer of full batten sails. 

On the 135 high cut there is no way to adjust the leach line (too high) thats why it cut through.

Jamie

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Jamie, I'm not sure on this (Ron or Breck might know better), but I think the idea is to cut the clue high but not so high that you can't reach it, at least when at the mast.

mickey

--

[Gmail]

If it's that high I think maybe you have a 110. A 135 Yankee is rare. I've not got one and wish I did 

Ron Acierno, PhD
Professor and Associate Dean for Research
Medical University of South Carolina
College of Nursing, Room 500
99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
Charleston SC 29425-1600

P: (843) 792-2949
F: (843) 792-1741
acierno@musc.edu
http://www.musc.edu/nursing

MUSC Nurses Change Lives!

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Gmail]

Exactly

Ron Acierno, PhD
Professor and Associate Dean for Research
Medical University of South Carolina
College of Nursing, Room 500
99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
Charleston SC 29425-1600

P: (843) 792-2949
F: (843) 792-1741
acierno@musc.edu
http://www.musc.edu/nursing

MUSC Nurses Change Lives!

Sent from my iPhone

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Ron,

When measuring yankees would a 100% be measured on the foot length as usual? I fso, it seems to me a 110% would not even reach to the mast if the clew is high enough. If 100% is 18' (as measured from headstay tack to mast), 110 would be barely 20 ft. That woudl be just behind the mast at the cabin top. If lift htat up just a little, even to my waist I think, that would barely reach the mast.

Is that not the case?

mickey

[Ron Acierno]

i think by definition the 110 means the foot reaches behind the mast by 10% of the distance from the mast to the forestay base...my 135 comes way further back than the yankee, and when i lay the 135 down and the yankee over it, it is not just because the cut is higher (that is, even if the yankee were not cut, if you continued it down the leech it would not terminate at the clew of the 135, but far short of it

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

I'm not sure what the exact definition of that percentage is. For example, here are 3 options of a 135%, which are the source of my confusion. I've heard both (1) and (2): that it's measured as a percentage of the J measurement, and that it's "overlap" behind the mast. Option 2 would make the most sense, but when ordering a yankee sail you can't order option 2 simply by specifying the J measurement.

1. The foot of the sail is 135% of the distance from tack to base of mast (J measurement). 

2. The sail "overlaps" the mast by 35%: The foot of the sail is 135% of the distance from the tack to the point where the foot meets the mast. If the foot of the sail meets the mast at the mast base, then this is the same as (1). If the foot of the sail meets the mast at a higher point, then this is not the same.

3. The sail area is 135% of the foretriangle area. This would be rather tricky to calculate and i've never head of this actually being used in any sensible way.

[Ron Acierno]

now I'm more confused than ever..so much for what i thought i knew!

[Tom Fuhs]

I was confused too.  This explained thing pretty well.  http://www.jasperandbailey.com/tech/headsails.html

The LPG is the shortest distance from the luff to the clew.  This line also bisects the headsail into two right triangles.  The LPG/J ratio (x 100) is the "size %" of the genoa.

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Yea, me too :)

BTW, Jamie, found this on Doyle's site re: leech lines for yankee/high-clew sails:

> Due to the height of the clew, we bring the leech line over the head of the sail and down the luff to make it adjustable at the tack.

neat. Although I assume that wousl also add some tension at the luff as well.

mickey

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Man, that diagram makes all the sense.

[Coolrocks]

When I stand on the cabin top I can reach the clew just enough to tie on a sheet if the sail is slack at the mast but when sailing and it;s loaded there is no way.

If Mickeys description is correct I have a 135

I was measuring over the weekend and did not measure the sail but if I draw a striegh line down the leach to the toe rail it would hit the front of the traveler.

 

Jamie

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

One interesting (to me anyway) thing on that diagram is that the high-cut 100% "overlaps" the mast more than a low-cut 100%:

The higher the clew is, the further "back" it moves:

[Tom Fuhs]

Agreed.  Very revealing.  I think that a 135% yankee would have the clew back where the 150 in diagram is, except higher.  That would necessitate a poor sheeting angle.  I suppose there are variations on what you call a "yankee".  A 135 with a slightly higher clew, but not full on "yankee", would give much of the benefit and still be manageable.  I think we all agree that avoiding the classic "deck sweeper" is a good thing.

[Coolrocks]

Wow tom good find I can see clearly now.

 

I can see what a 135 will look like but still unclear with ron and the short close track.

the angle will pull hard on the leach and leave the foot loose causing less pointing and more healing

 

Jamie

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Fuhs

To: cabo...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 12:43 PM

Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: head sail

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Jamie, I woudl agree with you on that.I fly a non-yankee 100% now and my sheeting angle needs to be pretty far forward--my tracks go from behind primary winches forward to about…just forward of scupper but aft of midships hawse hole. I can barely bring the cars far enough for my current low-cut jib, but it seems to me I'd get a better sheeting angle with teh clew higher.

Then again, I have a lot of respect for Ron (he's the only one I know who races his beast after all :) so I am curious to see his thoughts.

mickey

[Gmail]

I agree with you completely ...that's what I meant...I cannot get my cars far enough forward for the Yankee....the same bad effect can be illustrated by setting your cars perfectly for your big jib, then rolling it in halfway without moving the cars forward. The sail shape suffers. I think breck races even more tHan I do, which is sadly less now than before. 

Ron Acierno, PhD
Professor and Associate Dean for Research
Medical University of South Carolina
College of Nursing, Room 500
99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
Charleston SC 29425-1600

P: (843) 792-2949
F: (843) 792-1741
acierno@musc.edu
http://www.musc.edu/nursing

MUSC Nurses Change Lives!

Sent from my iPhone

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

OK I've done some more drawing on this. Per Dave Gerr, the forward end of the sheeting  fairlead woudl be at the back end of a line starting about 40-50% up the forestay and extending through the clew. (See this great article in Sail magazine: http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/

SO I took the above image and tried to draw the lines. The higher the clew, the further aft the forward end of the sheet block should be (for upwind):

Interesting that, assuming this is  drawn to scale, the 100% yankee and 150% Genoa will have very similar block positions.

Does that jive with your real-world experience?

mickey

[Acierno]

All things being the same , yes. Higher equals further aft as would be more evident were the "missing" section of the sail...the part cut off to make it high cut, still there.....but, my Yankee is much smaller than my 135, and would still be much smaller if the part cut off to make it "high cut" were replaced...smaller sail means move cars forward.   But you are absolutely right in the case you draw

Ron Acierno, PhD

Associate Dean for Research & Professor

Medical University of South Carolina

College of Nursing

843-792-2949

On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:34 AM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK I've done some more drawing on this. Per Dave Gerr, the forward end of the sheeting  fairlead woudl be at the back end of a line starting about 40-50% up the forestay and extending through the clew. (See this great article in Sail magazine: http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/

SO I took the above image and tried to draw the lines. The higher the clew, the further aft the forward end of the sheet block should be (for upwind):

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Makes sense. The sheeting angle can change remarkably with smaller sails or even going downwind.

[Coolrocks]

This is why I do not understand the placement of the traveler on my boat. Also the reason I asked lower the clew or extend the track?

 

Jamie

----- Original Message -----

From: Mickey Panayiotakis

To: cabo...@googlegroups.com

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

My 2 cents: You're gettinga new sail right? If you can't reach the clew now, lower it to where you think you can reach it. You're also looking at 135%--is that bigger that your current sail? I'd start with the new sail the way you want it first ,and then worry about how we need to move the track after you see how the new sail works.

[Ron Acierno]

agree completely. also, food for thought: i stopped switching between my high cut yankee and 135 and just stick with the yankee and carry an asym.  the 135 was too often overpowered, and in light air days, the spin. is wonderful and easy...invest in a great sock or a furler or else you won't use it.

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Ron, your Yankee is 110, correct? WIth the Yankee, where do you set the sheet cars for upwind? Reach? broad-reach?

[Gmail]

Well, 110 if you "replaced" the high cut out section". In terms of square foot I would say less. But my cars are as far forward as the track allows and need to be another 3 feet forward.   

Ron Acierno, PhD
Professor and Associate Dean for Research
Medical University of South Carolina
College of Nursing, Room 500
99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
Charleston SC 29425-1600

P: (843) 792-2949
F: (843) 792-1741
acierno@musc.edu
http://www.musc.edu/nursing

MUSC Nurses Change Lives!

Sent from my iPhone

[Breck Caine Cabo #19]

Instead of the asymmetrical   think about a code zero and a pole. Upwind, beam reach, downwind.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Ron Acierno <aci...@gmail.com>
Date: 08/19/2015 12:54 (GMT-05:00)
To: cabo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: head sail

agree completely. also, food for thought: i stopped switching between my
high cut yankee and 135 and just stick with the yankee and carry an asym.
the 135 was too often overpowered, and in light air days, the spin. is
wonderful and easy...invest in a great sock or a furler or else you won't
use it.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> My 2 cents: You're gettinga new sail right? If you can't reach the clew
> now, lower it to where you think you can reach it. You're also looking at
> 135%--is that bigger that your current sail? I'd start with the new sail
> the way you want it first ,and then worry about how we need to move the
> track after you see how the new sail works.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:40 AM Coolrocks <cool...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> This is why I do not understand the placement of the traveler on my boat.
>> Also the reason I asked lower the clew or extend the track?
>>
>> Jamie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----

>> *From:* Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com>
>> *To:* cabo...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:08 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [caborico] Re: head sail

>>
>> Makes sense. The sheeting angle can change remarkably with smaller sails
>> or even going downwind.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:23 AM Acierno <aci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All things being the same , yes. Higher equals further aft as would be
>>> more evident were the "missing" section of the sail...the part cut off to
>>> make it high cut, still there.....but, my Yankee is much smaller than my
>>> 135, and would still be much smaller if the part cut off to make it "high
>>> cut" were replaced...smaller sail means move cars forward.   But you are
>>> absolutely right in the case you draw
>>>
>>> Ron Acierno, PhD
>>> Associate Dean for Research & Professor
>>> Medical University of South Carolina
>>> College of Nursing
>>> 843-792-2949
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:34 AM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK I've done some more drawing on this. Per Dave Gerr, the forward end
>>> of the sheeting  fairlead woudl be at the back end of a line starting about
>>> 40-50% up the forestay and extending through the clew. (See this great
>>> article in Sail magazine:
>>> http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/
>>>
>>> SO I took the above image and tried to draw the lines. The higher the

>>> clew, the further *aft* the forward end of the sheet block should be

>>> (for upwind):
>>>
>>> <headsails-angles.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting that, assuming this is  drawn to scale, the 100% yankee and
>>> 150% Genoa will have very similar block positions.
>>>
>>> Does that jive with your real-world experience?
>>>
>>> mickey
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:23 PM Gmail <aci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with you completely ...that's what I meant...I cannot get my
>>>> cars far enough forward for the Yankee....the same bad effect can be
>>>> illustrated by setting your cars perfectly for your big jib, then rolling
>>>> it in halfway without moving the cars forward. The sail shape suffers. I
>>>> think breck races even more tHan I do, which is sadly less now than before.
>>>>
>>>>

>>>> *Ron Acierno, PhD*
>>>> *Professor and Associate Dean for Research*

>>>> Medical University of South Carolina

>>>> College of Nursing, Room 5*00*

>>>> 99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
>>>> Charleston SC 29425-1600
>>>>
>>>> P: (843) 792-2949
>>>> F: (843) 792-1741

>>>> *acierno <aci...@musc.edu>*@musc.edu <aci...@musc.edu>

>>>> http://www.musc.edu/nursing
>>>>
>>>> MUSC Nurses Change Lives!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:19 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jamie, I woudl agree with you on that.I fly a non-yankee 100% now and
>>>> my sheeting angle needs to be pretty far forward--my tracks go from behind
>>>> primary winches forward to about…just forward of scupper but aft of
>>>> midships hawse hole. I can barely bring the cars far enough for my current
>>>> low-cut jib, but it seems to me I'd get a better sheeting angle with teh
>>>> clew higher.
>>>>
>>>> Then again, I have a lot of respect for Ron (he's the only one I know
>>>> who races his beast after all :) so I am curious to see his thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> mickey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:12 PM Coolrocks <cool...@sympatico.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow tom good find I can see clearly now.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see what a 135 will look like but still unclear with ron and the
>>>>> short close track.
>>>>> the angle will pull hard on the leach and leave the foot loose causing
>>>>> less pointing and more healing
>>>>>
>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>> *From:* Tom Fuhs <tom...@gmail.com>
>>>>> *To:* cabo...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2015 12:43 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [caborico] Re: head sail

>>>>>
>>>>> I was confused too.  This explained thing pretty well.
>>>>> http://www.jasperandbailey.com/tech/headsails.html
>>>>> The LPG is the shortest distance from the luff to the clew.  This line
>>>>> also bisects the headsail into two right triangles.  The LPG/J ratio (x
>>>>> 100) is the "size %" of the genoa.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <
>>>>> svb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure what the exact definition of that percentage is. For
>>>>>> example, here are 3 options of a 135%, which are the source of my
>>>>>> confusion. I've heard both (1) and (2): that it's measured as a percentage
>>>>>> of the J measurement, and that it's "overlap" behind the mast. Option 2
>>>>>> would make the most sense, but when ordering a yankee sail you can't order
>>>>>> option 2 simply by specifying the J measurement.
>>>>>>

>>>>>> 1. The foot of the sail is 135% of the distance from tack to *base
>>>>>> of mast (J measurement).*

>>>>>>>>> *Ron Acierno, PhD*
>>>>>>>>> *Professor and Associate Dean for Research*

>>>>>>>>> Medical University of South Carolina

>>>>>>>>> College of Nursing, Room 5*00*

>>>>>>>>> 99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
>>>>>>>>> Charleston SC 29425-1600
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> P: (843) 792-2949

>>>>>>>>> F: (843) 792-1741 <(843)%20792-1741>
>>>>>>>>> *acierno <aci...@musc.edu>*@musc.edu <aci...@musc.edu>

[Breck Caine Cabo #19]

I gave up on the 135, got too old to handle it in changing conditions.  Yankee and staysail. Have asymmetrical and working on a code zero and pole. 

>> To post to this group, send email to caborico@goog

[Breck Caine Cabo #19]

Yes if the Yankee is cut high enough. And the genny is cut low enough. You could probably get a sail maker to get it the same for some point of sail.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Coolrocks <cool...@sympatico.ca>
Date: 08/19/2015 11:41 (GMT-05:00)
To: cabo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: head sail

This is why I do not understand the placement of the traveler on my boat. Also the reason I asked lower the clew or extend the track?

Jamie
  ----- Original Message -----

  From: Mickey Panayiotakis
  To: cabo...@googlegroups.com

  Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 10:08 AM
  Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: head sail

  Makes sense. The sheeting angle can change remarkably with smaller sails or even going downwind.




  On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:23 AM Acierno <aci...@gmail.com> wrote:

    All things being the same , yes. Higher equals further aft as would be more evident were the "missing" section of the sail...the part cut off to make it high cut, still there.....but, my Yankee is much smaller than my 135, and would still be much smaller if the part cut off to make it "high cut" were replaced...smaller sail means move cars forward.   But you are absolutely right in the case you draw


    Ron Acierno, PhD
    Associate Dean for Research & Professor
    Medical University of South Carolina
    College of Nursing
    843-792-2949



    On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:34 AM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:


      OK I've done some more drawing on this. Per Dave Gerr, the forward end of the sheeting  fairlead woudl be at the back end of a line starting about 40-50% up the forestay and extending through the clew. (See this great article in Sail magazine: http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/

      SO I took the above image and tried to draw the lines. The higher the clew, the further aft the forward end of the sheet block should be (for upwind):

      <headsails-angles.png>




      Interesting that, assuming this is  drawn to scale, the 100% yankee and 150% Genoa will have very similar block positions.


      Does that jive with your real-world experience?


      mickey


      On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:23 PM Gmail <aci...@gmail.com> wrote:

        I agree with you completely ...that's what I meant...I cannot get my cars far enough forward for the Yankee....the same bad effect can be illustrated by setting your cars perfectly for your big jib, then rolling it in halfway without moving the cars forward. The sail shape suffers. I think breck races even more tHan I do, which is sadly less now than before.

        Ron Acierno, PhD
        Professor and Associate Dean for Research

        Medical University of South Carolina

        College of Nursing, Room 500

        99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
        Charleston SC 29425-1600

        P: (843) 792-2949
        F: (843) 792-1741

        aci...@musc.edu
        http://www.musc.edu/nursing

        MUSC Nurses Change Lives!



        Sent from my iPhone

        On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:19 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:


          Jamie, I woudl agree with you on that.I fly a non-yankee 100% now and my sheeting angle needs to be pretty far forward--my tracks go from behind primary winches forward to about…just forward of scupper but aft of midships hawse hole. I can barely bring the cars far enough for my current low-cut jib, but it seems to me I'd get a better sheeting angle with teh clew higher.


          Then again, I have a lot of respect for Ron (he's the only one I know who races his beast after all :) so I am curious to see his thoughts.



          mickey




          On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:12 PM Coolrocks <cool...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

            Wow tom good find I can see clearly now.

            I can see what a 135 will look like but still unclear with ron and the short close track.
            the angle will pull hard on the leach and leave the foot loose causing less pointing and more healing

            Jamie
              ----- Original Message -----

              From: Tom Fuhs
              To: cabo...@googlegroups.com

              Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 12:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: head sail

              I was confused too.  This explained thing pretty well.  http://www.jasperandbailey.com/tech/headsails.html
              The LPG is the shortest distance from the luff to the clew.  This line also bisects the headsail into two right triangles.  The LPG/J ratio (x 100) is the "size %" of the genoa.


              On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:



                I'm not sure what the exact definition of that percentage is. For example, here are 3 options of a 135%, which are the source of my confusion. I've heard both (1) and (2): that it's measured as a percentage of the J measurement, and that it's "overlap" behind the mast. Option 2 would make the most sense, but when ordering a yankee sail you can't order option 2 simply by specifying the J measurement.

                1. The foot of the sail is 135% of the distance from tack to base of mast (J measurement).

                2. The sail "overlaps" the mast by 35%: The foot of the sail is 135% of the distance from the tack to the point where the foot meets the mast. If the foot of the sail meets the mast at the mast base, then this is the same as (1). If the foot of the sail meets the mast at a higher point, then this is not the same.
                3. The sail area is 135% of the foretriangle area. This would be rather tricky to calculate and i've never head of this actually being used in any sensible way.










                On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:15 PM Ron Acierno <aci...@gmail.com> wrote:

                  i think by definition the 110 means the foot reaches behind the mast by 10% of the distance from the mast to the forestay base...my 135 comes way further back than the yankee, and when i lay the 135 down and the yankee over it, it is not just because the cut is higher (that is, even if the yankee were not cut, if you continued it down the leech it would not terminate at the clew of the 135, but far short of it


                  On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:

                    Ron,


                    When measuring yankees would a 100% be measured on the foot length as usual? I fso, it seems to me a 110% would not even reach to the mast if the clew is high enough. If 100% is 18' (as measured from headstay tack to mast), 110 would be barely 20 ft. That woudl be just behind the mast at the cabin top. If lift htat up just a little, even to my waist I think, that would barely reach the mast.


                    Is that not the case?


                    mickey


                    On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:03 AM Gmail <aci...@gmail.com> wrote:

                      Exactly

                      Ron Acierno, PhD
                      Professor and Associate Dean for Research

                      Medical University of South Carolina

                      College of Nursing, Room 500

                      99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
                      Charleston SC 29425-1600

                      P: (843) 792-2949
                      F: (843) 792-1741

[S/V Oceanghost]

When i bought my boat it had a 150% genoa. I will say the power is very nice to have and i love it. With that being said if your tacking a lot i would not recommend it personally. If your sailing offshore and plan to be on the same tack for long periods it may be an option. Im still using the 150 but i have a new spare 130% 7.2 oz below for a spare. The inner staysail stay also eats up the sail when tackling. We normally furl it in a bit then tack to alleviate the sail from draging across the inner stay. Hope this helps. Good luck with your search and purchase.

[cab...@aol.com]

As I got older, things had to change. I sold the 150. Now have a Yankee 110% and use the staysail when needed. For down wind this works well in 15 or so plus knots. You need a spinnaker of some sort for below 10 kts downwind, maybe a code zero, I am working on it.

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

--

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Breck, Ron

I hate to revive a 2-year old thread but htere's good info here and I'm cutting a new sail. On your 110% (or so) yankee, how high is the clew? (let's say roughly feet off the deck when beating.)

mickey

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Ron Acierno]

Mine is at least 6 feet as I cannot reach the leech line without standing on the lifelines 

Ron

Ron Acierno, PhD
Professor and Associate Dean for Research
Medical University of South Carolina
College of Nursing, Room 500
99 Jonathan Lucas St.    MSC 160
Charleston SC 29425-1600

P: (843) 792-2949

F: (843) 792-2099
acierno@musc.edu
http://www.musc.edu/nursing

MUSC Nurses Change Lives!

Sent from my iPhone

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Hi Ron

Wow, that's pretty high. I think I found a pic of your boat online with yankee unfurled. It looks like 8+ feet off the deck. That may be a bit much for my tastes since I often don't raise the staysail, but perhaps worth considering going high.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

[Ron Acierno]

yes , its high...i would like it a foot lower, but when heeled over with waves across the bow, it allows the wash and spray to pass under

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Ron, ideally (e.g. if ordering a new sail) how high off the deck would you prefer the clew?

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

--

Mickey Panayiotakis 
Managing Partner, Infamia

800.270.5170 x512
202-415-0318

http://www.infamia.com

[Ron Acierno]

probably 6.5 feet.  

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

--

Mickey Panayiotakis 
Managing Partner, Infamia

800.270.5170 x512
202-415-0318

http://www.infamia.com

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Thanks for help and insights, Ron. I appreciate it!

[Thierry Danz]

Mickey,

You mentioned a 110% LP sail. That's not a Yankee. That's a genoa. The Yankee on my 42 is about 80% LP and is about 10 ft off the deck. Do you want the clew to be at, forward or aft of the cap shrouds?

Thierry

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Hi Thierry

I'm glad you chimed in! How do you like your yankee? Do you sail often with both yankee and staysail? Or just Yankee? Do you think 80% provides sufficient power? (My guess is that, with 80%LP and a clew that high up, your clew should reach just to or barely overlap your mast--is that correct?)

Yes, terminology can be confusing. True, Yankees are by definition no more than 100%, but I've no better term for a 110 foresail with a very high clew. I could of course go with a 100% high-clew sail and call it properly a yankee :) But I'm trying to get more power while maintaining ease of tacking through the inner forestay. The high clew moves sail area up, where there is a bigger "slot" between the two head stays, so it should make tacking easier for the same size sail. on the other hand, raising the clew also means a sheeting angle much further back, so there's only so high+big I can go. A 100% yankee, for example, can have a sheeting angle to move the car as far aft on the track as a 150 sweeper.

mickey

[Thierry Danz]

Mickey,

I normally sail with both the Yankee and the staysail.  I need the staysail to fill the slot between the mast and the Yankee. The Yankee clew on my boat is a little forward of the capshrouds. I single hand this heavy boat and I just don't want to have to go forward to help a genoa through the slot between the mast and the forestay. I have a 110% genoa as well, but I rarely use it anymore. Only if the crew insist!

The foot block for The Yankee sheet is still very much at the forward 1/4 of the sheet track. I could probably have gone with a slightly larger Yankee than the one that I have now, but when I specified the dimensions I wanted to be sure that The sail would tack easily.

Thierry

[Ron Acierno]

any time

[Ron Acierno]

yes, thats correct. overall it represents about 80%. but mine comes further aft than the mast...its just cut so high that it loses about 30% overall. normally 100% means back to the mast, i think. 

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Thierry Danz <tdan...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Thierry Danz]

Foresails are measured as a percentage of J, which is the horizontal distance between the tack fitting and the base of the mast. LP (luff perpendicular) is the distance between the clew and the luff. A 100% jib therefore has an LP that is equal to the J measurement.

Thierry

[cab...@aol.com]

I have an 18 inch step stool I use. Hope it will let me reach the clue.

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

[Thierry Danz]

Breck, you really have a clue?  😄

Thierry

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

[cab...@aol.com]

100%, does not mean; back to the mast. Do the Google.

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

On Friday, April 21, 2017 Ron Acierno <aci...@gmail.com> wrote:

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

[cab...@aol.com]

Just a little, most of my time is spent in the clouds. I am a legend in my own mind.

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

---

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Getting back on this thread, Breck I will likely user a code 0 on a j109 this summer. Who's making your sails? How hard was it to tack your old Yankee, and how big was it?

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cabo...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/caborico.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "caborico" group.