Forward water tank

[jpcorri...@gmail.com]

I have an issue with a leak in my forward water tank.  I opened the inspection plate but it apears the leak is in the other side of the baffle.  Has any one had this issue?  Has anyone cut the baffle to gain access to the other side?  Any help would be appreciated.

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

I think it would be easier to cut another inspection hole on the other side than to open and cut the baffle, but I have no first hand experience.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, 12:07 <jpcorri...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have an issue with a leak in my forward water tank.  I opened the inspection plate but it apears the leak is in the other side of the baffle.  Has any one had this issue?  Has anyone cut the baffle to gain access to the other side?  Any help would be appreciated.

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[SM]

Mickey’s correct. Don’t ask how I know that. Side benefit, added inspection ports make for easier periodic cleanings. Ours was a 30 yro science experiment. Glad to have improved access.

[Bill Jones]

Can anyone tell me what configuration the front tank consists of?  I abandoned mine years ago due to a leak when it gets to about 50% capacity.  I do not have any inspection ports.  The entire area is covered with a solid sheet of Formica.  I have hull #2 and am assuming that the tank is built-in utilizing the hull as the sides of the tank; but not sure.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Camelot

(Used to be Alakazam)

Bill

 

Bill Jones

Lic# 01213909

Eliten any Realty Services

2787 Moorpark Ave.

San Jose CA 95128

408 234-4725

bi...@billejones.com

[SM]

Hi Bill, 

We repaired a leak in the forward tank of hull 118. Here’s what we know about 118:

• The tank is a distinct and separate fiberglass structure- tabbed to the hull. 
• 118 had one alum inspection port and two baffles. It now has 2 additional ports to access each baffled section.
• The lid is a single structure laid down on a bed of 5200 (?) then tabbed to the hull. A fiberglass bed platform is screwed into a support structure above the tank lid and so the lid is not exposed to pressure or weight from the bunk
• The interior of the tank/lid is gel coated.

Ours leaked from the lid/tank joint. If you gave up on it years back, I’d say you have nothing to lose by cutting a couple/few inspection ports. Have a plan for sealing things up just in case you sort the leak and want to recommission it…

Hope that helps.

Best, 

Steve

[jpcorri...@gmail.com]

Steve, Thanks a bunch.  I have hull #114 so I'm sure there were not many changes.

How did you get to the tanks?  Does the Bunk base come up or did you just go thru both the bunk and lid of the tank?

joe

[SM]

hi joe-

the bunk base came out in three pieces. first, we dismantled as much of the teak needed to get to the full circumference. the base is held in with wood screws and 5200?  once we had full access we realized we’d either have to work with it suspended above us or choose to cut it and repair it after… although the fiberglass repair to the bunk base isn’t pretty, it’s not visible unless you pull the mattress.

 

you can see a little of the 30 yro science experiment in the pic with one of the new inspection ports. though the tank cleaned up nicely, the repair was done with west epoxy -which isn’t really "food grade”. some folks told us the gelcoat cabo lined the tanks with 30 years ago probably wasn’t food grade… so as long has the whole mess was torn up we elected to paint the entire interior with a “food grade” epoxy paint made specifically to line tanks for potable water. probably over-kill, but we’re full-time cruisers and needed the tanks to be clean and solid. 

[Bill Jones]

Thanks Steve,

What kind of material did you use for the access hole cover?  Is it G10 with a piece of stainless on top?  Also it appears you used machine screws for the cover.  Did you drill and tap the tank to accommodate the screws?

Thanks,

Bill

 

Bill Jones

Lic# 01213909

Elite Realty Services

[SM]

the new access covers mimicked the one original. alum plates, over food grade rubber gasket (grainger purchase i think). drill and tap. my arms weren’t long enough to work every corner (repairs and paint) and so we cut two additional access holes that we simply glassed over and painted.

On Apr 16, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Bill Jones <bi...@billejones.com> wrote:

Thanks Steve,

What kind of material did you use for the access hole cover?  Is it G10 with a piece of stainless on top?  Also it appears you used machine screws for the cover.  Did you drill and tap the tank to accommodate the screws?

Thanks,

Bill

 

Bill Jones

Lic# 01213909

Elite Realty Services

2787 Moorpark Ave.

San Jose CA 95128

408 234-4725

bi...@billejones.com

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 2:16 PM, SM <satire...@gmail.com> wrote:

hi joe-

the bunk base came out in three pieces. first, we dismantled as much of the teak needed to get to the full circumference. the base is held in with wood screws and 5200?  once we had full access we realized we’d either have to work with it suspended above us or choose to cut it and repair it after… although the fiberglass repair to the bunk base isn’t pretty, it’s not visible unless you pull the mattress.

 

you can see a little of the 30 yro science experiment in the pic with one of the new inspection ports. though the tank cleaned up nicely, the repair was done with west epoxy -which isn’t really "food grade”. some folks told us the gelcoat cabo lined the tanks with 30 years ago probably wasn’t food grade… so as long has the whole mess was torn up we elected to paint the entire interior with a “food grade” epoxy paint made specifically to line tanks for potable water. probably over-kill, but we’re full-time cruisers and needed the tanks to be clean and solid. 

<P1090227.jpg><P1090247.jpg><P1090333.jpg><P1090345.jpg>

<P1090345.jpg><P1090227.jpg><P1090333.jpg><P1090247.jpg>

[Tom Fuhs]

This is great information Steve.  Thanks for the pics!.  Our boat is hull 115, so is probably the same as yours in this area.  I have plans to seal and coat the water tanks, so this project is on our list.  I had a few more questions for you:

1)  Did you need to remove the cabinetry/lockers on the port side of the bunk, or did you just cut the mattress platform at the cabinets edge?  If you removed the cabinets, how did you accomplish this.  On our boat, it looked to me that they could not be removed without some destruction.

2)  When you reinstalled the mattress platform, did you glass the sections back together (fiberglass and epoxy) or did you leave it in removable sections somehow?

3) How did you seal up the leak in the tank?  Did you attempt to glass the tank top to the bottom with fiberglass tape and epoxy?  Did you have enough access to do this?

4) Do you recall what food safe epoxy you used to coat the tank interiors?  I've looked for this, but all NSF-61 epoxy coatings I've been able to find are only rated for very large tanks, i.e. municipal public water tanks.  

From the pics it looks like you did a great job.  I think that having access to clean all water tank interiors is pretty important if you want to be able to drink that water. 

Thanks for any additional info.

-Tom 

S/V Eclipse    CR38 #115

Rock Hall Md.

 

[SM]

Hey Tom-

Comments are inline down below… 

On Apr 17, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Tom Fuhs <tom...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is great information Steve.  Thanks for the pics!.  Our boat is hull 115, so is probably the same as yours in this area.  I have plans to seal and coat the water tanks, so this project is on our list.  I had a few more questions for you:

1)  Did you need to remove the cabinetry/lockers on the port side of the bunk, or did you just cut the mattress platform at the cabinets edge?  If you removed the cabinets, how did you accomplish this.  On our boat, it looked to me that they could not be removed without some destruction. We did not remove the cabinets -and yes, the platform extends into/under the cab- we cut the platform rather than messing with the joinery. This required a little fabrication upon reassembly but for us that was the better route. 

2)  When you reinstalled the mattress platform, did you glass the sections back together (fiberglass and epoxy) or did you leave it in removable sections somehow? Combo- the small sections were glassed back together but there’s one seam (two large sections) that we “bolted/braced" together with alum flat stock. 

3) How did you seal up the leak in the tank?  Did you attempt to glass the tank top to the bottom with fiberglass tape and epoxy?  Did you have enough access to do this? We ended up just using thickened epoxy (Gflex). We dug out as much 5200 (I’m guessing that’s what they used) as we could and set-up a very large fillet along the entire seam. Access was tough- that’s why the tank now has 3 inspection ports (the two new ones are much larger than the 1 original).  And we had at least 2 maybe 3 more holes cut for access -that we glassed over (and painted).

4) Do you recall what food safe epoxy you used to coat the tank interiors?  I've looked for this, but all NSF-61 epoxy coatings I've been able to find are only rated for very large tanks, i.e. municipal public water tanks.  Yup, went down that route as well. Somehow, somewhere we found BrewCoat: 

http://www.sscoatings.net/brewcoat-info.htm

[Tom Fuhs]

Thanks again Steve.  It's good to know we won't be the first to blaze this trail. -Tom

[Pete Smith]

This is a great source of info.

I've got #116 and will have to get into both my water tanks sooner rather than later.

Currently only my forward tank "works", but the water is really funky...

Me center tank is full, but I cant get any flow from it. Does anyone have any info how to get at the center tank?

Also, Steve - maybe it's just me, but I cant see the pics you posted - just see the file name.

Pete

[SM]

Hi Pete-

I resent the pics to your personal email. Let me know if they come through. 

Regarding the the center tank (we’ve been in there too)- 118’s access is just forward of the diesel tank. Right at that step down into the salon. There’s a square access plate in the salon floor -provides access to the combo inspection port pick-up tubes. Unlike the forward tank that is plumbed (out going) at the base of the tank, the center tank’s inspection port doubles as a fill and pick-up tube assembly. Which is a point of failure. It’s an alum welded piece and the pickup tube (and breather/over-fill tube) are prone to corrosion and breakage. We’ve rebuilt that with starboard & simple home plumbing components from home depot. 

If the plumbing is connected at the top, I suspect you’ll find a broken pick-up tube inside the tank.

We have those pics too if needed.

HTH

Steve

[Pete Smith]

Thanks Steve

You are just a fountain of information.

I'm currently elbow deep in brightwork varnishing, but between coats I think I'll take a look this weekend.

Everything is plumbed on top, so I believe youre right - the issue must be in the pickup tube.

I will appreciate if you post the photos for that as well - I'm sure the rest of the comunity will do so to.

Thanks again

Pieter

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 12:07:28 PM UTC-4, jpcorri...@gmail.com wrote:

[Pete Smith]

Oh yes, I did get the photos in my e-mail.

Many thanks again

Pieter

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 12:07:28 PM UTC-4, jpcorri...@gmail.com wrote:

[Pete Smith]

I took the opportunity this weekend to look why I dont get any flow out of my center tank. The suggestion here (I think Steve) was to check the pickups.

Well, I'm glad I couldnt get water out of it....O man, can you say nasty...

Next step is to figure out how to rebuilt and clean the tank

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 12:07:28 PM UTC-4, jpcorri...@gmail.com wrote:

[gregry melnechuk]

better to replace with a stainless steel copy.

--

[curtis hoffman]

  RYDLYME to the rescue! 

Paul

[Tom Fuhs]

From that photo, that dip tube looks like it's pretty severely corroded.  I'd bet got that way from someone putting a *lot* of bleach in the tank and leaving it to soak for a while in an effort to kill / clean a brewing science project.  Bleach will do that to aluminum.  Best bet is to replace the dip / fill / vent / inspection port assembly.  You can either have a new one made like the old one, or you can make your own using off the shelf plumbing parts as some other here have done.  In any event, although replacing with a stainless copy sounds good in theory, I don't think there is any way to remove / replace the tanks in this generation of 38's.  In ours at least (hull 115), you'd need to cut out sections of the sole and support floors.  I think there are some fiberglass beams glassed in over the tank.  Then you'd have the problem of getting the tank out of the boat.  I know the forward tank is too big to get out of the boat without taking the deck off the hull, and that's not happening!.  I think the middle water tank is the same.  I think the older boats may be different WRT the middle tank.    Steve's method of installing more inspections ports for access, then coating with potable water safe epoxy (NSF-61) is a good way to proceed.  He used "Brew Coat".  Repairing and coating in place seems the best approach. It's my plan for the water tanks unless something else presents itself. 

-Tom

[Pete Smith]

You're right - there is definitely more than just regular corrosion going on here - the tubes are not just corroded, they are completely solidified in a a porous lump - if you touch it, it crumbles away.

The tank is not leaking - when I started undoing the plate assembly water squirted through the screw holes from the pressure of water in the fill tube. 

I'm going to clean the tank and coat it it with something like Brewcoat (wow, that stuff is dear :( - is there anu other option? ). The dip tube assembly will be made up from regular PVC and starboard, and I will also try to replace all the piping leading from the tank.

If the center tank looks like this, I'm concerned about the forward tank. Does anyone have some photos of the filling/outlet arrangements on that tank? Is it also Aluminium?

Pieter

[Alex Tarlecky]

That's what ours looked like!

[Alex Tarlecky]

I have thought carefully about this. Since you don't really care about destruction simply cut the tank up in pieces and remove piecemeal - starting with the top and working out sideways. 

Then, build a custom plastic tank or two. 

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 4:21:11 PM UTC-4, Tom wrote:

[LB Home]

Or buy a bladder tank that comes close to fitting the space.

Larry

Venteux

Sent from my iPhone

[Harrison and Suzie]

Hi Steve,

We have hull 120 (Stella Maris) and appear to have joined the group with front water tank problems.  You have clearly plowed the ground for the rest of us.   Thanks!

For some reason the pictures you provided to illustrate your work aren't available to me on our google group.  Would you please send copies when you can dig them out?   Thanks very much,

Harrison Marks