Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
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Cab...@aol.com
Feb 27, 2013, 8:33:50 PM2/27/13
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Has anyone removed the 5ft By 4ft or so cover that is over the
holding/water tank. I can't figure out how it is screwed down??
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
Mickey Panayiotakis
Feb 27, 2013, 9:41:13 PM2/27/13
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On my boat...
It's only over the water tank. I have to lift or remove the table. There are four visible screws but I think that part is the work of the previous owner.
I can send some pics if it helps or you tell me which pay to focus on. (no pun intended)
Y
On Feb 27, 2013 8:33 PM, <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:
Has anyone removed the 5ft By 4ft or so cover that is over the holding/water tank. I can't figure out how it is screwed down??Breck Caine CR 38 #19
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Bill Jones
Feb 27, 2013, 10:02:02 PM2/27/13
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The cover is a single piece dimensioned approximately one inch larger than the tank cavity. Approximately 1/2 inch lip for thes screws. I nave six screws in mine and they are visible. Your screws have probably been countersunk and filled with dowels so as not to be visible. You will have to figure out which ones they are and drill out the dowels and then remove the screws.
Bill
Alakazan
CR38 #2.
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 27, 2013, 11:42:47 PM2/27/13
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I found the six screws 3 each along the port and starboard sides, and got
them out, but it still does not want to come up??? Also is it just over the
water tank or the Holding tank too. If its not over the holding tank how do you
get to that? Thanks
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
Mickey Panayiotakis
Feb 27, 2013, 11:47:42 PM2/27/13
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pics, breck?
Bill Jones
Feb 27, 2013, 11:50:27 PM2/27/13
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On my boat I would have to take up some the sole to get to the holding tank. Your cover is just really tight. You might have to cut some holes in one end and then install pull plates to cover up the holes and for future use. The sole boards are attached to a solid piece of plywood about 5/8" thinck. Not sure of the exact thickness. Last time I had my cover off I installed a Livorsi straight tube sending unit and a new Livorsi gauge adjacent to my other gauges. I also installed Livorsi senders and gauges in both diesel tanks.
Bill
Bill Jones
Feb 27, 2013, 11:51:41 PM2/27/13
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I meant to say sole boards.
Bill
Larry Barker
Feb 28, 2013, 9:33:24 AM2/28/13
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Breck
If you are on the hard you may not be able to get it out. I know u are in the water most of the year. I did try to remove my panel out of the water one Spring. No way.
Larry
Venteux
Sent from my iPhone
Bill Jones
Feb 28, 2013, 12:05:09 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
You might try borrowing some of those large suction cups that glass shops use to carry sheets of glass. Give it a good yank upward. Just a thought!
Bill Jones
Alakazam
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 28, 2013, 1:53:29 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
If I don't get them today I will be out of town for a week or so and get
them when I come back. Thanks
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/27/2013 11:48:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
svb...@gmail.com writes:
pics, breck?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:42 PM, <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:
I found the six screws 3 each along the port and starboard sides, and got them out, but it still does not want to come up??? Also is it just over the water tank or the Holding tank too. If its not over the holding tank how do you get to that? Thanks
Breck Caine CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/27/2013 10:02:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bi...@billejones.com writes:
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 28, 2013, 1:59:55 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
OK I will pull harder. Does the holding tank have a riveted on top or is it
a one piece tank?? Can I get to the air relief hose of the holding
tank from under the cover?? Smell is coming from there, broken hose, loose
top? The water tank, is it a one piece tank or does it have a riveted on top?
Can I get to the air relief hose on it?? Thanks
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/27/2013 11:50:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bi...@billejones.com writes:
On my boat I would have to take up some the sole to get to the holding tank. Your cover is just really tight. You might have to cut some holes in one end and then install pull plates to cover up the holes and for future use. The sole boards are attached to a solid piece of plywood about 5/8" thinck. Not sure of the exact thickness. Last time I had my cover off I installed a Livorsi straight tube sending unit and a new Livorsi gauge adjacent to my other gauges. I also installed Livorsi senders and gauges in both diesel tanks.
Bill
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 28, 2013, 2:11:45 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Thanks, crow bar first.
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 12:05:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bi...@billejones.com writes:
You might try borrowing some of those large suction cups that glass shops use to carry sheets of glass. Give it a good yank upward. Just a thought!
Bill Jones
Alakazam
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Larry Barker <ldcb...@aol.com> wrote:
BreckIf you are on the hard you may not be able to get it out. I know u are in the water most of the year. I did try to remove my panel out of the water one Spring. No way.LarryVenteux
Sent from my iPhone
The cover is a single piece dimensioned approximately one inch larger than the tank cavity. Approximately 1/2 inch lip for thes screws. I nave six screws in mine and they are visible. Your screws have probably been countersunk and filled with dowels so as not to be visible. You will have to figure out which ones they are and drill out the dowels and then remove the screws.BillAlakazan
CR38 #2.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:
On my boat...
It's only over the water tank. I have to lift or remove the table. There are four visible screws but I think that part is the work of the previous owner.
I can send some pics if it helps or you tell me which pay to focus on. (no pun intended)
Y
On Feb 27, 2013 8:33 PM, <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:
Has anyone removed the 5ft By 4ft or so cover that is over the holding/water tank. I can't figure out how it is screwed down??Breck Caine CR 38 #19
--
Mickey Panayiotakis
Feb 28, 2013, 2:23:47 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Breck
Mine's riveted. See some pics here:
mickey
Robert Benner
Feb 28, 2013, 2:35:47 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Those suction cup handles are also a great tool for cleaning the hull
Bob CR35 #100
Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com
www.blackberry.com
From: "Cab...@aol.com" <Cab...@aol.com>
To: "cabo...@googlegroups.com" <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 28 February, 2013 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
To: "cabo...@googlegroups.com" <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 28 February, 2013 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
Patrick
Feb 28, 2013, 2:37:34 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
I had to use a crowbar and create a wedged shaped opening to get it into
the first time. I did that right at the back of the mast-step where the
drain slot is that diverts water to the bilge and it is hidden under the
table. Once I got it levered up with heavy scrapers blades etc. it came
out. The first time I took it out I used a plane on the edges to make it
easier next time. Note that it is rather heavy as there are timbers
glued to the bottom that rest on the water tank to hold it in. See the
attached picture. During our Pacific crossing in heavy seas with the
boat rolling heavily we noticed some movement of the access panel. There
was also some leakage of the water tank at the gasket material (caulk)
between the top and bottom section. The way the factory installed it, at
least on my boat, the tank just sits down in the bilge and was free to
move fore and aft an inch of two and only held in place by the pressure
of the access panel. Not good in my view.
While here in New Zealand I pulled the tank, removed the top, which was
riveted on with 95 rivets, and cleaned the tank out. The baffles were
held in with caulk which was failing and contaminating the tank,
replaced all hoses etc. I elected to epoxy the baffles and top back on
since I installed clean-out ports. I also tabbed the tank in place with
fiberglass tape and epoxy so that it is properly attached to the boat.
You'll notice my cabin soles are badly in need of refinishing. I'll get
to them someday but sailing across the Pacific this past year has been
more important than dealing with the interior aesthetics.
Regarding the holding tank vent line... On my boat it is located on the
forward side pf the mast step and is inboard of the fill inlet hose.
That is accessed via the smaller sole access panel just outside the head
door. The vent is very hard to see because it is hidden by the inlet hose.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
CR38, Hull #43
Currently hauled out Whangarei NZ
the first time. I did that right at the back of the mast-step where the
drain slot is that diverts water to the bilge and it is hidden under the
table. Once I got it levered up with heavy scrapers blades etc. it came
out. The first time I took it out I used a plane on the edges to make it
easier next time. Note that it is rather heavy as there are timbers
glued to the bottom that rest on the water tank to hold it in. See the
attached picture. During our Pacific crossing in heavy seas with the
boat rolling heavily we noticed some movement of the access panel. There
was also some leakage of the water tank at the gasket material (caulk)
between the top and bottom section. The way the factory installed it, at
least on my boat, the tank just sits down in the bilge and was free to
move fore and aft an inch of two and only held in place by the pressure
of the access panel. Not good in my view.
While here in New Zealand I pulled the tank, removed the top, which was
riveted on with 95 rivets, and cleaned the tank out. The baffles were
held in with caulk which was failing and contaminating the tank,
replaced all hoses etc. I elected to epoxy the baffles and top back on
since I installed clean-out ports. I also tabbed the tank in place with
fiberglass tape and epoxy so that it is properly attached to the boat.
You'll notice my cabin soles are badly in need of refinishing. I'll get
to them someday but sailing across the Pacific this past year has been
more important than dealing with the interior aesthetics.
Regarding the holding tank vent line... On my boat it is located on the
forward side pf the mast step and is inboard of the fill inlet hose.
That is accessed via the smaller sole access panel just outside the head
door. The vent is very hard to see because it is hidden by the inlet hose.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
CR38, Hull #43
Currently hauled out Whangarei NZ
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 28, 2013, 2:43:10 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
It that all water tank? No part holding tank?
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 2:24:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
svb...@gmail.com writes:
BreckMine's riveted. See some pics here:mickey
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:11 PM, <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:
Thanks, crow bar first.
Breck Caine CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 12:05:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bi...@billejones.com writes:
You might try borrowing some of those large suction cups that glass shops use to carry sheets of glass. Give it a good yank upward. Just a thought!
Bill Jones
Alakazam
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Larry Barker <ldcb...@aol.com> wrote:
BreckIf you are on the hard you may not be able to get it out. I know u are in the water most of the year. I did try to remove my panel out of the water one Spring. No way.LarryVenteux
Sent from my iPhone
The cover is a single piece dimensioned approximately one inch larger than the tank cavity. Approximately 1/2 inch lip for thes screws. I nave six screws in mine and they are visible. Your screws have probably been countersunk and filled with dowels so as not to be visible. You will have to figure out which ones they are and drill out the dowels and then remove the screws.BillAlakazan
CR38 #2.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:
On my boat...
It's only over the water tank. I have to lift or remove the table. There are four visible screws but I think that part is the work of the previous owner.
I can send some pics if it helps or you tell me which pay to focus on. (no pun intended)
Y
On Feb 27, 2013 8:33 PM, <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:
Has anyone removed the 5ft By 4ft or so cover that is over the holding/water tank. I can't figure out how it is screwed down??
Breck Caine CR 38 #19
--
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 28, 2013, 2:44:09 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Holding yourself down when under water?
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 2:35:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
skippe...@gmail.com writes:
Those suction cup handles are also a great tool for cleaning the hull
Bob CR35 #100
Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com
From: "Cab...@aol.com" <Cab...@aol.com>
To: "cabo...@googlegroups.com" <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 28 February, 2013 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
Mickey Panayiotakis
Feb 28, 2013, 2:44:55 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Correct, no holding tank there. The holding tank is under the mast.
Robert Benner
Feb 28, 2013, 2:45:50 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
That and providing a secure handhold when cleaning the waterline.
Sent: 28 February, 2013 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
Holding yourself down when under water?
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 2:35:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
skippe...@gmail.com writes:
Those suction cup handles are also a great tool for cleaning the hull
Bob CR35 #100
Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com
From: "Cab...@aol.com" <Cab...@aol.com>
To: "cabo...@googlegroups.com" <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 28 February, 2013 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 28, 2013, 2:49:18 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Thanks very nice job. Could you tell if the holding tank has a riveted
lid??
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
Cab...@aol.com
Feb 28, 2013, 2:50:16 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
cool
Breck Caine
CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 2:45:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
skippe...@gmail.com writes:
That and providing a secure handhold when cleaning the waterline.
Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com
From: "Cab...@aol.com" <Cab...@aol.com>
To: "cabo...@googlegroups.com" <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 28 February, 2013 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
Holding yourself down when under water?
Breck Caine CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 2:35:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, skippe...@gmail.com writes:
Those suction cup handles are also a great tool for cleaning the hull
Bob CR35 #100
Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com
From: "Cab...@aol.com" <Cab...@aol.com>
To: "cabo...@googlegroups.com" <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 28 February, 2013 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the cover over the holding and forward water tank
Thanks, crow bar first.
Breck Caine CR 38 #19
In a message dated 2/28/2013 12:05:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bi...@billejones.com writes:
You might try borrowing some of those large suction cups that glass shops use to carry sheets of glass. Give it a good yank upward. Just a thought!
Bill Jones
Alakazam
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Larry Barker <ldcb...@aol.com> wrote:
BreckIf you are on the hard you may not be able to get it out. I know u are in the water most of the year. I did try to remove my panel out of the water one Spring. No way.LarryVenteux
Sent from my iPhone
The cover is a single piece dimensioned approximately one inch larger than the tank cavity. Approximately 1/2 inch lip for thes screws. I nave six screws in mine and they are visible. Your screws have probably been countersunk and filled with dowels so as not to be visible. You will have to figure out which ones they are and drill out the dowels and then remove the screws.BillAlakazan
CR38 #2.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis <svb...@gmail.com> wrote:
On my boat...
It's only over the water tank. I have to lift or remove the table. There are four visible screws but I think that part is the work of the previous owner.
I can send some pics if it helps or you tell me which pay to focus on. (no pun intended)
Y
On Feb 27, 2013 8:33 PM, <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:
Has anyone removed the 5ft By 4ft or so cover that is over the holding/water tank. I can't figure out how it is screwed down??
Breck Caine CR 38 #19
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Mickey Panayiotakis
Feb 28, 2013, 3:02:28 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
I
have no idea how to get to the holding tack without tearing up the sole. Patrick or anyone else, any ideas?
mickey
Alan Gluyas
Feb 28, 2013, 6:59:54 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
It is possible that I might have a small hole in the top of my holding tank. Someone a few years ago posted that they had a similar problem due to the cabin sole screws going right through into the tank.
My understanding of the construction is that the holding tank is a structural part of the hull that also serves as the mast step. Essentially, the holding tank is formed from two (or three?) transverse structural bulkheads and a glassed on top. On Brite Star, the teak sole does not appear to be removable and it looks as though the only way to access the inside of the holding tank (if you would want to) would be to remove the water tank and cut an access hole in through the front bulkhead. Yuk.
At some stage I am going to have to look at the possible screw hole in mine, as currently I have bypassed the holding tank and cleaned and dried it out. This has fixed the smell and where we are living here is Tasmania, pumping overboard is not a major environmental issue, at least not yet. We don’t have that many people here.
Cheers
Al
Brite Star
CR38 #82
Kettering Tasmania
From:
cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Panayiotakis
Sent: Friday, 1 March 2013 4:02 AM
To: cabo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [caborico] Remove the
cover over the holding and forward water tank
I
Patrick
Feb 28, 2013, 10:44:13 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
No, can't tell as the top of the holding tank is up between two
fiberglass U channels that appear to be part of the structure that spans
the boat for mast-step support. If you Search this group you will find
comments about some extra long screws used in installing the interior
that penetrated the tank on several boats.
BTW, I've attached a picture to this note that shows the water tank
opened up just after removing the top. As with the fuel tank rebuild I
did, that is also documented in this group, the baffles drop down into
channels molded into the bottom section. I cleaned everything out and
then epoxied the baffles in place with just enough epoxy to keep them
from rattling. When I glued the top on I also epoxied the top flange of
the baffles to the top which stiffened the tank a lot. Before I buttoned
everything up I pressure tested the tank by filling the tank so that the
fill hose was full to deck level. That gave me a five+ foot high column
of water that provided close to 2.5 PSI, the pressure used to test fuel
and water tanks for recreational vessels. (.433 X 5 = 2.165 PSI) No
leaks so I added the tabbing to hold the tank in place and put the sole
and table back together.
Regarding the table once you get it out you might want to reenforce the
sides to bottom interface. On our table, after having bounced off it
once or twice in 20 foot seas there was movement as the sides of the
table box are only fastened to the bottom by the thickness of the bottom
plywood. I epoxied doublers along the inside of those joints all the way
around and that stiffened things up nicely.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
fiberglass U channels that appear to be part of the structure that spans
the boat for mast-step support. If you Search this group you will find
comments about some extra long screws used in installing the interior
that penetrated the tank on several boats.
BTW, I've attached a picture to this note that shows the water tank
opened up just after removing the top. As with the fuel tank rebuild I
did, that is also documented in this group, the baffles drop down into
channels molded into the bottom section. I cleaned everything out and
then epoxied the baffles in place with just enough epoxy to keep them
from rattling. When I glued the top on I also epoxied the top flange of
the baffles to the top which stiffened the tank a lot. Before I buttoned
everything up I pressure tested the tank by filling the tank so that the
fill hose was full to deck level. That gave me a five+ foot high column
of water that provided close to 2.5 PSI, the pressure used to test fuel
and water tanks for recreational vessels. (.433 X 5 = 2.165 PSI) No
leaks so I added the tabbing to hold the tank in place and put the sole
and table back together.
Regarding the table once you get it out you might want to reenforce the
sides to bottom interface. On our table, after having bounced off it
once or twice in 20 foot seas there was movement as the sides of the
table box are only fastened to the bottom by the thickness of the bottom
plywood. I epoxied doublers along the inside of those joints all the way
around and that stiffened things up nicely.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
Mickey Panayiotakis
Feb 28, 2013, 10:47:17 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Hey Patrick
Have you any photos of the talbe reinforcement and mast drain?
mickey
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Patrick
Mar 1, 2013, 3:36:25 AM3/1/13
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Mickey,
Sorry no pictures.
In the case of the drain slot I can't take a picture because the forward
end of my table sits within a 1/2" of the aft edge of the mast step so
the groove wouldn't be visible. I should also mention that rather than
an Isomat spar I have a Bainbridge section. The mast is an elliptical
section and the mast step is rectangular. There is a raised central
section the same same shape as the inside of the mast that protrudes up
into the mast by about 1 1/2". There is a raised edge around the mast
step that essentially creates a "moat" at the base of the mast. On the
aft end there is a small hole that leads to a groove in the sole and a
hole that is under the forward edge of the removal-able sole panel. Any
water that comes down inside the mast drains out the bottom and
eventually into the bilge. Not an elegant approach but it works. When I
first got the boat there was a lot of water coming in the mast however
after I re-did the rig and all the wiring I caulked things up well
enough that we only see water in the worst weather. I suspect it is
driven inside the sheave box at the masthead since my last inspection of
the rig didn't reveal any issues with the caulk at the wire penetrations.
Sorry, but the inside of the table is loaded with stuff and I'm too busy
with my haul-out to unload it for a picture. Basically the sides of the
table extend down around the outside edges of the bottom. As a result
the only thing holding the sides to the bottom is glue and a few small
screws. As a result bumping up against the top edge of the table or
bracing ones-self against it in a seaway provides a far bit of lever arm
for such a small joint. I used a Fien Multimaster with a sanding head to
sand the horizontal surface of the bottom and the adjacent vertical
surfaces of the sides to get a clean finish free surface where the two
come together. I then epoxied in 1 X 1 strips to beef up that joint. In
other words if you look down into the forward section of the table by
pulling out both the top and lower level shelf section inside the table
you'll see the strips glued all around the inside perimeter where the
sides meet the bottom. I did the same thing on the aft end where the
door is. Made a big difference.
Patrick
Sorry no pictures.
In the case of the drain slot I can't take a picture because the forward
end of my table sits within a 1/2" of the aft edge of the mast step so
the groove wouldn't be visible. I should also mention that rather than
an Isomat spar I have a Bainbridge section. The mast is an elliptical
section and the mast step is rectangular. There is a raised central
section the same same shape as the inside of the mast that protrudes up
into the mast by about 1 1/2". There is a raised edge around the mast
step that essentially creates a "moat" at the base of the mast. On the
aft end there is a small hole that leads to a groove in the sole and a
hole that is under the forward edge of the removal-able sole panel. Any
water that comes down inside the mast drains out the bottom and
eventually into the bilge. Not an elegant approach but it works. When I
first got the boat there was a lot of water coming in the mast however
after I re-did the rig and all the wiring I caulked things up well
enough that we only see water in the worst weather. I suspect it is
driven inside the sheave box at the masthead since my last inspection of
the rig didn't reveal any issues with the caulk at the wire penetrations.
Sorry, but the inside of the table is loaded with stuff and I'm too busy
with my haul-out to unload it for a picture. Basically the sides of the
table extend down around the outside edges of the bottom. As a result
the only thing holding the sides to the bottom is glue and a few small
screws. As a result bumping up against the top edge of the table or
bracing ones-self against it in a seaway provides a far bit of lever arm
for such a small joint. I used a Fien Multimaster with a sanding head to
sand the horizontal surface of the bottom and the adjacent vertical
surfaces of the sides to get a clean finish free surface where the two
come together. I then epoxied in 1 X 1 strips to beef up that joint. In
other words if you look down into the forward section of the table by
pulling out both the top and lower level shelf section inside the table
you'll see the strips glued all around the inside perimeter where the
sides meet the bottom. I did the same thing on the aft end where the
door is. Made a big difference.
Patrick
Jamie opus CR38 #26
Mar 1, 2013, 5:48:12 AM3/1/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
This is interesting as I have a smell as well. Mine seams to be from the front of the holding tank. After alot of searching and digging around I have found that the only way to fix this is to rip apart half the boat ( the middle half ) not my idea of a good time. During my investigation a fellow boater suggested a composting toilet so I did some inquiries and found a guy just down the dock that had installed one at the begining of the season. Three months later and he is happy. urine goes overbord and solids get composted, he figures with 2 people it would have to be recharged every 6 months and the best part is the compost goes into the garden like peat moss ( no more pumpouts ) . The real selling point for me is he said almost no smell he puts one of those air fresheners in the head area and all is good.
On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:33:50 PM UTC-5, Breck wrote:
So this spring I will install one and abandon the holding tank. The cost is $1000.00 Canadian or 1 boat dollar . At the same time since I no longer need the water supply I will re route it to a wash down pump for the anchor.
I will keep you posted and add picks when I start the job this spring.
Jamie
On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:33:50 PM UTC-5, Breck wrote:
Has anyone removed the 5ft By 4ft or so cover that is over the holding/water tank. I can't figure out how it is screwed down??
Jakesamberg
Mar 1, 2013, 8:02:12 AM3/1/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
What about it being illegal to pump urine overboard?....technically
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Patrick
Mar 3, 2013, 2:30:57 PM3/3/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Jamie,
A few things to consider regarding the composting head option based on
my experience with one here on my CR38, Silhouette and one on a previous
boat. My unit is a Natures Head but these comments would also apply to
the Airhead unit.
* The composting process slows and then stops when the ambient
temperature drops much below 50 degrees F. Depending on what part of the
country you live in that can be an issue.
* If the unit is used full-time by two people, as in a long cruise or
living aboard situation, the solids side will need to be dealt with on a
weekly basis. It can not and will not compost fast enough, no matter the
temperature, to handle two people full time. Going out for a two week
cruise? You'll need to empty it twice.
* If used by two people full-time then the liquid side needs to be dealt
with on a daily basis. No, we aren't big beer drinkers, and it was a
surprise to discover just how much liquid flows through one's system.
(The Nature's Head liquid tank is 2.2 gallons.)
* The liquid issue is easily dealt with and while it may be technically
illegal to discharge it, in reality it is essentially a sterile solution
and low risk. The solids are another issue all together. If you're at a
facility that has a "Porta-Potty" arrangement as part of their pump-out
station that's great, no problem. However, it is a significant problem,
at least if one wishes to deal with it ethically, in port or an
anchorages where no such facility exists. A sea we just dump it
overboard, but dealing with it while in port or in a crowded anchorage
is frequently a serious hassle.
* If it is installed on a CR38 so that it is mounted atwartships, about
the only way you can mount one with the standard head layout, then you
will have a problem when the boat is on a port tack as the liquid will
not drain into the holes in the front of the unit but rather will pool
at the back. The "trap door" that closes the solids side has a raised
lip around it that when the unit is reasonably level, diverts the liquid
into the bottle. However, it is easily overwhelmed when the boat is
heeled and then the liquid ends up in the solids side. We've been on
port tack for days at a time and this becomes a serious problem when it
comes time to empty the solids side. Tacking whenever you need to use
the head is one option of course.
Having said all that, I still think that for coastal and weekend
cruising the composting head may be a reasonable option for some people
if the limitations noted above are taken into consideration. However,
one of the projects I'm working on during my haul-out here in New
Zealand is to re-install a sea-cock on what was the blanked-off head
discharge thru-hull so that I can go back to a standard head
arrangement. I'll be installing a Lavac to replace the Nature's Head as
we just haven't found the composting arrangement to work that well for
us while out here doing long distance ocean cruising. I've done some
testing of the holding tank and hopefully it is leak free but I'll admit
that there is some risk that I'll have similar problems that others have
reported.
Didn't want to rain on your parade but thought I should mention a few
things that you might want to consider based on my experience over
several years of use.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
Currently Whangarei, NZ
A few things to consider regarding the composting head option based on
my experience with one here on my CR38, Silhouette and one on a previous
boat. My unit is a Natures Head but these comments would also apply to
the Airhead unit.
* The composting process slows and then stops when the ambient
temperature drops much below 50 degrees F. Depending on what part of the
country you live in that can be an issue.
* If the unit is used full-time by two people, as in a long cruise or
living aboard situation, the solids side will need to be dealt with on a
weekly basis. It can not and will not compost fast enough, no matter the
temperature, to handle two people full time. Going out for a two week
cruise? You'll need to empty it twice.
* If used by two people full-time then the liquid side needs to be dealt
with on a daily basis. No, we aren't big beer drinkers, and it was a
surprise to discover just how much liquid flows through one's system.
(The Nature's Head liquid tank is 2.2 gallons.)
* The liquid issue is easily dealt with and while it may be technically
illegal to discharge it, in reality it is essentially a sterile solution
and low risk. The solids are another issue all together. If you're at a
facility that has a "Porta-Potty" arrangement as part of their pump-out
station that's great, no problem. However, it is a significant problem,
at least if one wishes to deal with it ethically, in port or an
anchorages where no such facility exists. A sea we just dump it
overboard, but dealing with it while in port or in a crowded anchorage
is frequently a serious hassle.
* If it is installed on a CR38 so that it is mounted atwartships, about
the only way you can mount one with the standard head layout, then you
will have a problem when the boat is on a port tack as the liquid will
not drain into the holes in the front of the unit but rather will pool
at the back. The "trap door" that closes the solids side has a raised
lip around it that when the unit is reasonably level, diverts the liquid
into the bottle. However, it is easily overwhelmed when the boat is
heeled and then the liquid ends up in the solids side. We've been on
port tack for days at a time and this becomes a serious problem when it
comes time to empty the solids side. Tacking whenever you need to use
the head is one option of course.
Having said all that, I still think that for coastal and weekend
cruising the composting head may be a reasonable option for some people
if the limitations noted above are taken into consideration. However,
one of the projects I'm working on during my haul-out here in New
Zealand is to re-install a sea-cock on what was the blanked-off head
discharge thru-hull so that I can go back to a standard head
arrangement. I'll be installing a Lavac to replace the Nature's Head as
we just haven't found the composting arrangement to work that well for
us while out here doing long distance ocean cruising. I've done some
testing of the holding tank and hopefully it is leak free but I'll admit
that there is some risk that I'll have similar problems that others have
reported.
Didn't want to rain on your parade but thought I should mention a few
things that you might want to consider based on my experience over
several years of use.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
Currently Whangarei, NZ
Jamie opus CR38 #26
Mar 4, 2013, 5:07:06 AM3/4/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Patrick
Your info is great and full of stuff I did not know. But now I have to rethink what I thought was a great idea.
Jamie
Patrick
Mar 4, 2013, 1:56:27 PM3/4/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
It still may be a good choice for you. It worked OK for me for a few
years, but in the long run I found that it is a lot of trouble. If I
wasn't a full-time live-aboard and only spent weekends on the boat it
might be a different story. The marina I used at home had a good
Porta-Potty setup and that made dealing with things pretty easy.
BTW, at sea, we make the daily task of dealing with the liquid side a
part of the first night watch duties. That way it is dealt with before
dark so that the off-watch person isn't disturbed and there are no
overflows. The latter only needs to happen once or twice for one to
become habitual about dealing with the task.
Patrick
years, but in the long run I found that it is a lot of trouble. If I
wasn't a full-time live-aboard and only spent weekends on the boat it
might be a different story. The marina I used at home had a good
Porta-Potty setup and that made dealing with things pretty easy.
BTW, at sea, we make the daily task of dealing with the liquid side a
part of the first night watch duties. That way it is dealt with before
dark so that the off-watch person isn't disturbed and there are no
overflows. The latter only needs to happen once or twice for one to
become habitual about dealing with the task.
Patrick
Patrick
Feb 28, 2013, 4:00:27 PM2/28/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
No, can't tell as the top of the holding tank is up between two
fiberglass U channels that appear to be part of the structure that spans
the boat for mast-step support. If you Search this group you will find
comments about some extra long screws used in installing the interior
that penetrated the tank on several boats.
BTW, I've attached a picture to this note that shows the water tank
opened up just after removing the top. As with the fuel tank rebuild I
did, and that is documented in this group, the baffles drop down into
fiberglass U channels that appear to be part of the structure that spans
the boat for mast-step support. If you Search this group you will find
comments about some extra long screws used in installing the interior
that penetrated the tank on several boats.
BTW, I've attached a picture to this note that shows the water tank
opened up just after removing the top. As with the fuel tank rebuild I
channels molded into the bottom section. I cleaned everything out and
then epoxied the baffles in place with just enough epoxy to keep them
from rattling. When I glued the top on I also epoxied the top flange of
the baffles to the top which stiffened the tank a lot. Before I buttoned
everything up I pressure tested the tank by filling the tank so that the
fill hose was full to deck level. That gave me a five+ foot high column
of water that provided close to 2.5 PSI - which is the pressure used to
then epoxied the baffles in place with just enough epoxy to keep them
from rattling. When I glued the top on I also epoxied the top flange of
the baffles to the top which stiffened the tank a lot. Before I buttoned
everything up I pressure tested the tank by filling the tank so that the
fill hose was full to deck level. That gave me a five+ foot high column
test fuel and water tanks for recreational vessels. (.433 X 5 = 2.165
PSI) No leaks so I added the tabbing to hold the tank in place and put
the sole and table back together.
Regarding the table once you get it out you might want to reenforce the
sides to bottom interface. On our table, after having bounced off it
once or twice in 20 foot seas there was movement as the sides of the
table box are only fastened to the bottom by the thickness of the
PSI) No leaks so I added the tabbing to hold the tank in place and put
the sole and table back together.
Regarding the table once you get it out you might want to reenforce the
sides to bottom interface. On our table, after having bounced off it
once or twice in 20 foot seas there was movement as the sides of the
table box are only fastened to the bottom by the thickness of the
plywood. I epoxied doublers along the inside of those joints all the way
around and that stiffened things up nicely.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
On 3/1/2013 8:49 AM, Cab...@aol.com wrote:
around and that stiffened things up nicely.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette
On 3/1/2013 8:49 AM, Cab...@aol.com wrote:
LDCB...@aol.com
Mar 5, 2013, 9:18:46 AM3/5/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Breck,
When we purchased the boat the previous owner had just found the source of
the leaking holding tank. When they fastening the interior teak on the salon
forward bulk head they screwed it in too low initially. I am assuming the did a
pressure check and it failed. They had removed the teak and filled the
holes with silicone. Then reattached the teak. After 15 years or so the silicone
started to give up and the holding taking started to weep through the holes.
Almost impossible to find. The owner cut the teak panel up about 2 inches to
reveal it. On our boat there is a 90 deg. wire chase/ trim piece that covers
that area.
I have looked at this installation and see no reasonable way to
get the holding tank to do anythng to it.
Larry
Venteux
Cab...@aol.com
Mar 5, 2013, 2:09:02 PM3/5/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Thanks,
davo
Mar 7, 2013, 8:18:00 AM3/7/13
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
I'd be really interested in how you get it to fit in the head.
We'd like to do the same thing to remove all the hoses and permanently shut down the thru hulls but when I measured the space available, I couldn't see how the base would fit on the raised section the current manual toilet is sitting on.
The raised section is only flat for a short distance before it starts sloping up and as far as I can see, the air head won't fit without blocking access to the shower. I'm not even sure if I can fit an electric toilet with a macerator pump as the pump sticks out quite a way at the rear.
ciao
dave
We'd like to do the same thing to remove all the hoses and permanently shut down the thru hulls but when I measured the space available, I couldn't see how the base would fit on the raised section the current manual toilet is sitting on.
The raised section is only flat for a short distance before it starts sloping up and as far as I can see, the air head won't fit without blocking access to the shower. I'm not even sure if I can fit an electric toilet with a macerator pump as the pump sticks out quite a way at the rear.
ciao
dave
Pete Smith
Nov 24, 2015, 9:03:48 PM11/24/15
to caborico
Hi All
I was trying to find out if someone on the group has installed a composting head on their CR38's.
It seems there is some who has done this, but unfortunately not too much info/ The search capability on Google groups really sucks, so not sure how much has been discussed here.
Anyone currently have one of these installed? Are you happy with it?
I would be interested to hear how it was installed - the space where the current head is does not exactly lends itself to an airhead or natures head
Pete
I was trying to find out if someone on the group has installed a composting head on their CR38's.
It seems there is some who has done this, but unfortunately not too much info/ The search capability on Google groups really sucks, so not sure how much has been discussed here.
Anyone currently have one of these installed? Are you happy with it?
I would be interested to hear how it was installed - the space where the current head is does not exactly lends itself to an airhead or natures head
Pete
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