Survey results - Head question

[Pete Smith]

Hi all, the survey of Calypso Poet went pretty well, and we are moving ahead with the purchase pending a few major issues be addressed.
 The surveyor recomends that all sanitation hose be replaced on the boat - and considering the condition of the commode itself, I will insist it must go as well - has anyone done this job before that can help with little insight as to the labor and cost associated.

How many feet of hose is needed - How many hours?.

Does anyone have a plumbing diagram?

Although this might be strange, I prefer to do this job myself. I really don't want to find out a hose wasn't put on properly by way of nasties in the bilge...

Thanks

Pete

[curtis hoffman]

 I recommend a gallon of rydlyme through the system before proceeding. It’ll clean out years of accumulated nasty stuff. Then if possible a stiff wire into the head end of the hose and push until the end comes out of the overboard through hull. Pull the wire out and measure its length for new hose length. 

Paul
      

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[Larry Barker]

Pete

It all depends on what you want to replace it with. 

The sanitary hose to the holding tank on my boat is about 8 ft long. Tight place to work. Replacing the head will be the easier of the 2 jobs. We just bought a Raritan (sp) standard manual unit. Went if fairly easy. 

Larry Barker

Venteux

Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2015, at 2:22 PM, Pete Smith <petes...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Pete Smith]

Curtis, I wont gross everyone out by posting a picture of what it looks like currently, but I really dont think ridlyme is going to do it this time. Besides, the hoses have become brittle and "leaking" odor. They have to go...

Larry, sounds like you have experience - did you replace just the commode or the hoses as well? Any guess on the amount of work in hours?

Pete

[curtis hoffman]

  I did a Rydlyme job on my head a couple of years ago. Gross? Oh yes. An hour or so of Rydlyme and when I disassembled the head the innards could have been packaged and sold for new. (almost). A few boats ago i discovered that years of sea water flush and pee produced a rock hard mineral deposit in my discharge hose. Back then silly me I put the hose on the dock and beat it with a rubber hammer to bust up the deposits. Now older and wiser Rydlyme to the rescue.  A Rydlyme commercial tosses clam shells ito a container of Rydlyme. All gone in an hour or so.  Once a year or so I run Rydlyme with a pump through my head to dissolve all the baddies in the system. 

Paul
      

[curtis hoffman]

  Im just suggesting to de-gross them before dragging them out. 

Paul
      

On May 31, 2015, at 3:12 PM, Pete Smith <petes...@gmail.com> wrote:

[N C]

I found that ridlyme is a good maintenance/preventative measure but, with years of build up and brittle hoses, don't waste your money on it. You're redoing the head & you're taking the right path in replacing all of the hoses. 

Ridlyme recommends that it be circulated continuously through the system for it to be most effective.  Why waste the money on old hoses? You'd have to flush it continuously through your system to be truly effective. You'll still be able to get your hoses out.

Once you replaced everything an occasional treatment of ridlyme helps. I empty out my holding tank and toss in a gallon of it when under way, it may not be as good as recirculating it as recommended but, the agitation effect hopefully dissolves the crud in the holding tank. To keep it in the hoses, through out the system, for it to work won't happen unless it's recirculated for a length of time.

For an occasional weekend boater, flushing it through the system occasionally may mitigate some of the build-up. For full time live aboard with high usage of the head, ridlyme can get expensive and needs to be re-circulated for maximum effectiveness.

Nick

[curtis hoffman]

  $25 submersible 12VDC pump. Amazon. 

[N C]

Relatively new hoses, perfect. Old brittle hoses, which tend to allow odors to permeate through them and are at the end of their service life, what's the point?

On May 31, 2015, at 4:11 PM, curtis hoffman <hoffman...@gmail.com> wrote:

<thumb_IMG_1818_1024.jpg>

[N C]

Where in the system are you installing the pump so that it recirculates through all of the hoses?

On May 31, 2015, at 4:11 PM, curtis hoffman <hoffman...@gmail.com> wrote:

<thumb_IMG_1818_1024.jpg>

[curtis hoffman]

  Read a couple of postings ago, Degross  them so it isn’t a total mess getting them out. Splash a half gallon of rid lyme along their path rather than tedious cleaning with soap etc. At $40 a gallon I think its the best thing since the Northern lights! Submersible pump in a bucket under the overboard discharge with a hose to the head  and run it for a couple of hours, No guessing then everything will be clean. All the stuff that gets into the bilge cleans it as well. 

Paul
      

[curtis hoffman]

 This time I only connected it to the sea water inlet on the head. You could actually see the flow improving with time. All the tiny holes providing flush water get filled with micro clams and other nasties. 

Paul
      

[N C]

I yanked my hoses out, that was the easy part even with total arterial occlusion. Re-installing them is the bitch.

<thumb_IMG_1818_1024.jpg>

[curtis hoffman]

  The first time I used Ryd Lyme I dumped a gallon into the head and flushed it into the system. The bubbling etc. got so loud that I closed the head door in case something was going to blow up. After the noise subsided I flushed it so it then went into the waste lines etc.  A little once a year and you are golden. 

[curtis hoffman]

Ryd Lyme no occlusion. Remember KY? Its water soluble and goes away. 

Paul
      

[curtis hoffman]

[N C]

Yeah, if you use it every other week. Not practical for live aboards. I changed my hose from the head to the y valve after 9 years of heavy usage. I don't think you're getting enough fiber in your diet.

[curtis hoffman]

 Plenty of fiber but a few cups of RydLyme each season makes a messy job disappear! Totally completely disappear. 

[N C]

Does it blend well with Metmucil?

[curtis hoffman]

 Dopy reply sorry. The stuff works very closely to magic when thought out. I took my head apart after a RydLym treatment and all the head components were literally clean and shiny. 

[N C]

For a fair analysis you'd have to take it apart before and after for a true comparison. Again, for light usage vs heavy usage, repeated treatment or thoroughly flushing the system with water each time has it's merits. There is no doubt that ridlyme has it's place, but the original thread was about heavily encrusted and old brittle hoses, the length etc. Thanks for the dopy reply comment, I thought it was a friendly forum!

[curtis hoffman]

 Once a season and happy times. Once every nine years? Silly. Old brittle hoses ought to go to the dump. A Rydlyme treatment before is much more sanitary. When I put my boat into the water come spring I follow pumping out the antifreeze with RydLyme. If I spent a few minutes calculating the volume of the discharge hoses i could put enough stuff in to thoroughly clean the entire system, I have seen before and after treatment results. Way past amazing. Check their website. My marina does it for $350! 

[Pete Smith]

Curtis

Looking at the picture of CP's head it looks very much like the pic you posted above - only thing is that there aint no ridlyme near it....
So, de-grossing before removing is definitely in the cards - I think I will have to get a a hazardous waste permit to work on this thing....
Can you please explain how you set up the pump so it continously flush from the bowl to the holding tank.

Nick
It sounds like you have replaced the hoses - was it a gross hour or two spend or did it take a day to get this done? Do you have a diagram of the plumbing system you can share?

Pete


On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 2:22:53 PM UTC-4, Pete Smith wrote:Hi all, the survey of Calypso Poet went pretty well, and we are moving ahead with the purchase pending a few major issues be addressed.

[curtis hoffman]

I didn’t include the holding tank . I basically Dropped the submersible pump into the head and connected it to the sea water inlet of the head. Half a gallon or so of Rydlyme and hit the switch. Within minutes I could see the flow dramatically increase . No one thinks about it but the flush water comes in under the rim of the head and gets clogged with various sea life. The holding tank I think toss in the submersible pump a gallon to two of Rydlyme close the cover and let the pump spray the hell out of the tank. A system diagram I think might take 15 minutes with a pencil and paper? Maybe 20 minutes?  De-gross your heart out to include nooks and crannies in the bilge and follow up with a garden hose an hour or so later. Even your bilge pump will be happy. 

Paul
      

[curtis hoffman]

 After a de-gross session you might consider just a head rebuild kit if the actual head looks ok. The insides with the joker valve, flap valve etc. isn’t at all rocket science. After a de-grossing of the internal parts they will be surprising clean so not a big deal to replace stuff. 

Paul
      

On May 31, 2015, at 7:18 PM, Pete Smith <petes...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Alex Tarlecky]

This is not even close to being a major problem! You will probably end up redoing it a few times during your ownership!

Since you are replacing the hose you might as well also replace the anti-siphon device. The one that came with our boat was the type that vents internally. Groco makes ones that you hook up to a vent hose - you can T it into your holding tank vent. 

- alex

On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 2:22:53 PM UTC-4, Pete Smith wrote:

[curtis hoffman]

  A thought about hose replacement. Consider connecting the new hose to the old hose before removing it. Might make it easier to navigate the new hose route and through tight holes? Also maybe a come along being carful not to pull the boat apart. Gentle pulling then gentle pushing maybe?  System diagram. Sea water to the head. Poop hose to the Y valve. One output side of the Y valve to the holding tank. The other to the through hull fitting. There I did it Whew! 

[gregry melnechuk]

Hydrogen peroxide or Chlorine free bleach found in the bleach section by the gallon works well to clean out the system before you replace all the hoses.  Make sure you use sanitation hose otherwise the smell will permeate through the hoses.  There must be at least 20 feet of hose including the hose to the holding tank and the pump out hoses as well.  Taking them apart and cleaning them is the grossest of all jobs! :)

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Pete Smith <petes...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, the survey of Calypso Poet went pretty well, and we are moving ahead with the purchase pending a few major issues be addressed.
 The surveyor recomends that all sanitation hose be replaced on the boat - and considering the condition of the commode itself, I will insist it must go as well - has anyone done this job before that can help with little insight as to the labor and cost associated.

How many feet of hose is needed - How many hours?.

Does anyone have a plumbing diagram?

Although this might be strange, I prefer to do this job myself. I really don't want to find out a hose wasn't put on properly by way of nasties in the bilge...

Thanks

Pete

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[Thierry Danz]

When I replaced some of the hoses on Curlew, I used Saniflex hoses. They are more flexible than most other brands and easier to install. Highly rated by Practical Sailor.
Thierry
CR42#12 Curlew
Baltimore MD

[ldcb...@aol.com]

I guess I wonder why you go to all the trouble to clean out the lines? Unless to make them flexible enough to remove. But I am a fresh water guy on Lake Erie??

Larry Barker

Venteux

Sent from Windows Mail

[N C]

Pete,

Sorry I don't have a diagram. It is a very tedious time consuming job because of the lack of easy accessibility and angle changes. Removal wasn't too bad, even with clogged hoses. The installation was more difficult since I did it alone. It would have been much easier to have a second set of hands to pull on one end of the hose while I pushed on the other. I tied a line to one end to help guide it through some of the passage ways. I also had to remove some hoses to get to the ones I needed to change. It took me the better part of a day. You may want to label the hoses and what they connected to. I don't trust my memory any more. A couple of photos helps also. 

Having a yard do it annually as Curtis mentioned certainly is an option but, if you do the math, 9 years at $350 a pop = $3,150. That's a pricey maintenance program for hoses that will have to be changed at some point anyway. They do get brittle over time and need replacing regardless of how well you clean the insides of them. A few hundred dollars in hoses every 9 years or so isn't that big of a deal. 

I don't really see a need to open up the holding tank to install a pump. I just have the tank pumped out while at the dock or use the overboard discharge while offshore. Pump a gallon or two of ridlyme into the system while underway. A few hours of sailing, heeling over, and some choppy seas seems to do a pretty good job of agitating 

the residual tank contents. I guess you'd have to inspect it internally to be sure. My marina measures the amount pumped out of the tank, it correlates to the capacity of my holding tank when full so I'd assume I don't have a build up of crud issue. I run the ridlyme through the system twice a year.

Incidentally, I flush out my A/C unit with ridlyme regularly. It definitely helps the performance of the unit. It's a lot easier to access those hoses and hook up a pump, wish the head was the same.

Good Luck,

Nick

On May 31, 2015, at 7:49 PM, curtis hoffman <hoffman...@gmail.com> wrote:

[curtis hoffman]

I've had boats that after years almost completely close. Big time NG.  

Sent from my iPhone

[Alex Tarlecky]

I second saniflex hosing. It might not be the "most impermeable" over a long period but the ease of installation makes it much more likely that you will do it!

- alex

[Breck Caine Cabo #19]

Each boat may be different. I have a Y valve in the head that either goes to a valve that pumps overboard. The other side of the head Y valve goes to the holding tank. There is a vent line in the holding tank next to the line that dumps into the holding tank,both near the top of the tank. At the bottom of the holding tank i have a short piece of hose and a Y valve that goes to the suck out hole or to a macerater pump that goes to a valve and then overboard. The price of the hose varies greatly. Just spent $100 on a 5 foot piece of hose going from the macerater pump over board.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone