US: 25% of California immigrants on welfare
fight...@my-deja.com
foreign-born who recently were naturalized as US citizens are on
welfare, compared with 8% of native-born US citizens.
What a terrific new breed today's immigrants are!
I hear the US Immigration and Naturalization Service has just adopted
a new official seal: an outstretched hand above the motto "GIMME!"
But the Clinton supporters keep reminding us how "great" the US
economy is . . . if it's so GREAT, why are 25% of recent immigrants in
the country's most-populous state ON WELFARE?????????????????
Make sense?
New from the U.S. General Accounting Office:
- Welfare Reform: Public Assistance Benefits Provided to Recently
Naturalized Citizens. HEHS-99-102. 15 pp. plus 3 appendices (12
pp.) June 23, 1999.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/he99102.pdf
RESULTS IN BRIEF: Our analysis shows that the recently naturalized
citizens
we identified generally used SSI, Medicaid, and TANF benefits at a
higher
rate in 1997 than the native-born population. Nationally, out of the
927,338 immigrants who were recently naturalized, we found that about
8.3
percent received SSI benefits during 1997. This rate is higher than the
rate of 2.4 percent for the nation’s native-born citizens. Also, the
rate
of benefit receipt for recently naturalized citizens in the Medicaid and
TANF programs was higher than the CPS-based estimate for the native-born
population in several of the states we examined, although the magnitude
of
difference varied across some states. For example, we found that 9.6
percent of the recently naturalized citizens in Texas received Medicaid
compared with 6.1 percent of the native-born population, while 23.7
percent
of the recently naturalized citizens in California received such
benefits
compared with 8.2 percent of the native-born population. We found
similar
patterns of difference for the TANF program in the states we examined.
Because we compared estimates derived from administrative data for
recently
naturalized citizens with estimates derived from self-reported survey
data
for native-born citizens, the actual variation between the two
populations’
receipt of public assistance may differ somewhat from our estimates.
Nevertheless, these estimates are the most accurate we could calculate
given the data available. In addition, a variety of factors may
contribute
to differences in the benefit receipt rates between the recently
naturalized citizens and the native-born population. These include
individuals’ decisions to apply for benefits, as well as program
eligibility factors such as income.
The benefits paid by the federal and state governments in 1997 to the
recently naturalized citizens included in our review totaled about $735
million for the four programs. This figure reflects nationwide data for
the
SSI program, as well as data from five states for the Medicaid and Food
Stamp programs (representing 76 percent of all the recently naturalized
citizens in our review 6 ), and from four states for the TANF program
(representing 71 percent of all the recently naturalized citizens in our
review). Overall, the percentage of benefits paid to recently
naturalized
citizens in each program was about 1 percent or less of the total
benefits
paid to all recipients.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
hc23hc
>
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Just heard this morning that according to the state's own records only half
> of the children in grades K-12 in California have parents who are US
> citizens.
>
> We are paying to educate the world.
If you think education's expensive ...
.
.
.
Merlin Dorfman
: x-no-archive:yes
: Just heard this morning that according to the state's own records only half
: of the children in grades K-12 in California have parents who are US
: citizens.
: We are paying to educate the world.
If you will read the other threads in this newsgroup, you will
read about the wonderful benefits to the US economy that we are deriving
from the H1B visa holders and other non-citizens who are enabling our
high-tech industries to survive (and not so incidentally paying lots of
taxes, not subsisting on our tax money).
David Gleason
Merlin Dorfman <dor...@netcom9.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7lblh2$c...@dfw-ixnews15.ix.netcom.com...
reported that the agenda included a critical issue, that of lack of
sufficient job seekers. It is believed that the lack of entry level workers
can threaten the economy sufficiently to back us into inflation again. No
one seems to notice that unemployment is at a low point in recent history
and that almost everyone who is truly employable has a job.
David Gleason
Angelmoon <computer...@exite.com> wrote in message
news:7l9ft8$po8$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Just heard this morning that according to the state's own records only
half
> of the children in grades K-12 in California have parents who are US
> citizens.
>
Which does not mean that the parents are illegal, which is your point,
right? Resident aliens here legally also pay the same taxes and deserve the
same services as they contribute to the economic system in equal
proportions.
Oh, and by the way... check out the Census website. From 1900 (start of
statistics) through about 1952, there was a higher percentage of foreign
born in the USA than there is now. So what you are talking about or bitching
about is actually nothing new... in fact, the foreign born were a lower
percent than today only from 1953 to about 1990... less than 40 years out of
223 of national history.
Aviator
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Are you saying you couldn't teach any other subject? I bet you could. I
> work hard for my money and I want to keep it. Let the illegal immigrants
be
> sent back home. Note the word "illegal". There are important
differences.
> In one city near here, they've figured out that 40 percent of the kids in
> school are children of ILLEGAL criminals.
As usual AngelMoo provides no source, nor names the city. She also fails to
tell us who "they" are. Standard procedure for the NGs pathetic liars
If we sent all the illegals home,
> we could afford to better educate the kids of citizens. Everyone cries
> about the lack of room, too many kids, etc. If we'd send home the
illegals,
> the schools would be less crowded.
Trouble is, you old hag, that the constitution you bow down to does not
allow that without due process, and all the protections afforded to
individuals by it
Once again you have shown that the lump of gristle between your ears serves
no other purpose than to keep your head from imploding
>
> Hamilton Johnson wrote in message
<3778d3f0...@news.asahi-net.or.jp>...
> >
> >Thanks a lot. As an ESL teacher while I was in school, California's
> >immigrant population made it possible for me to leave home, learn
> >Spanish, sleep with beautiful Japanese women, buy guns, and generally
> >have a good time in the last 2 years of school.
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------
> >"Anonymity is a virtue in this day and age." Primus
> >-------------------------------------------------
> >"J-Pop = social mental slavery" Kent Dorfman
> >-------------------------------------------------
> >89088912120 COMING SOON: The Official DSD Page
>
>
>
Merlin Dorfman
: As part of the Federal Reserve debate today on interest rates, it was
: reported that the agenda included a critical issue, that of lack of
: sufficient job seekers. It is believed that the lack of entry level workers
: can threaten the economy sufficiently to back us into inflation again. No
: one seems to notice that unemployment is at a low point in recent history
: and that almost everyone who is truly employable has a job.
...though many are underemployed. However it is true that the
limiting factor on many business's expansion or growth plans today
is the lack of available labor.
Jafo
Angelmoon wrote:
>Are you saying you couldn't teach any other subject? I bet you could. I
>work hard for my money and I want to keep it. Let the illegal immigrants be
>sent back home. Note the word "illegal". There are important differences.
>In one city near here, they've figured out that 40 percent of the kids in
>school are children of ILLEGAL criminals. If we sent all the illegals home,
>we could afford to better educate the kids of citizens. Everyone cries
>about the lack of room, too many kids, etc. If we'd send home the illegals,
>the schools would be less crowded.
D'oh!
--
~ Jafo http://www.cheetah.net/jafo/
Fantomas
>
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Are you saying you couldn't teach any other subject? I bet you could. I
> work hard for my money
BULLSHIT ! Spreading your legs for a living is not hard work.
and I want to keep it.
Guess what, you don't deserve to.
Let the illegal immigrants be
> sent back home.
More cost effective to put the employers in prison, than many illegals
will go back on their own accord and save taxpayers money.
Note the word "illegal". There are important differences.
> In one city near here, they've figured out that 40 percent of the kids in
> school are children of ILLEGAL criminals.
Not all illegal aliens are criminals. Some are, but it is no more
fitting
to say all are criminals than all are handicapped or all are mentally
ill.
If we sent all the illegals home,
> we could afford to better educate the kids of citizens.
But it would be cheaper to put the employers in prison so the illegals
would not have to be sent home with public monies. They would go back
voluntarily then.
Everyone cries
> about the lack of room, too many kids, etc. If we'd send home the illegals,
> the schools would be less crowded.
Not necessarily. What about the infestation by Americans ?
Jafo
Angelmoon wrote:
>Stealing jobs from US citizens who need them. Yep, real benefit. <sarcasm>
>Of course I didn't read Dorf's message 'cause I never saw it--probably
>because he is among those who do not get read for various excellent reasons.
I haven't found an "excellent reason" for killfiling "Dorf", as
although I frequently disagree with his opinions he usually presents
them in a rather thoughtful manner - he doesn't blindly shoot from
the hip. In any case I've never understood the concept of killfiling
those whose opinions are other than my own, as I have no particular
interest in reading only the output of those who agree with me.
hc23hc
>
> Merlin Dorfman (dor...@netcom9.netcom.com) wrote:
>
<re: Angelmoo's quote of despair:
<
< : : We are paying to educate the world.>
>
> : If you will read the other threads in this newsgroup, you will
> : read about the wonderful benefits to the US economy that we are deriving
> : from the H1B visa holders and other non-citizens who are enabling our
> : high-tech industries to survive (and not so incidentally paying lots of
> : taxes, not subsisting on our tax money).
>
> survive." Those industries would thrive without them.
There are industries whose survival in America depends on H-1 visa holders.
In macroeconomic terms, America has not educated enough domestic students
to cope with the demands of its domestic industry. The imported ones come
here pre-educated at no charge. The net result: what a bargain for the USA.
> visa holders are, however, allowing companies to employ a work
> force less expensive and more susceptible to control and
> manipulation than the native work force - dependent as the
> visa holders are upon the continued sponsorship of the
> employers.
Right on, Doug, strike a blow against peonage. A little bit late, since
Labor Law matured beyond you in that respect, decades ago. Your mythology
degrades visa holders as supine, craven fools who allow American employers
to walk all over them. In everyday reality, *crawling* is a job custom
tailored to suit all uneducated domestic scabs, and no-one can take that
away from them.
.
.
.
hc23hc
>
> I have no particular
> interest in reading only the output of those who agree with me.
Uh-huh...
Jafo, when it's about those who do agree with you, you don't "read-only"
their output. You lap it up right out of their gaping wounds, savor it
fruitily, then regurgitate it con molto brio into the gullets of your
scrawny nestlings, who don't know any better.
Those disagreeing with you are, as you always put it, "clueless".
Or worse.
.
.
.
Aviator
Douglas K Long <DKL...@utarlg.uta.edu> wrote in message
news:7lin9i$1b9$1...@news.uta.edu...
> Merlin Dorfman (dor...@netcom9.netcom.com) wrote:
>
> : : Just heard this morning that according to the state's own records only
half
> : : of the children in grades K-12 in California have parents who are US
> : : citizens.
>
>
> : If you will read the other threads in this newsgroup, you will
> : read about the wonderful benefits to the US economy that we are deriving
> : from the H1B visa holders and other non-citizens who are enabling our
> : high-tech industries to survive (and not so incidentally paying lots of
> : taxes, not subsisting on our tax money).
>
> The visa holders aren't "enabling our high-tech industries to
> survive." Those industries would thrive without them. The
> force less expensive and more susceptible to control and
> manipulation than the native work force - dependent as the
> visa holders are upon the continued sponsorship of the
> employers.
Absolute bullshit!! Employers are required to show that they are paying a
market related wage to H-1b holders. I started out in this country on an
H-1b, so I have been through that system
Klong on the other hand is sucking his facts directly out of his ass
Aviator
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Stealing jobs from US citizens who need them.
Stealing??? I hate to tell you you dumb moron, that "needing" a job is not
an automatic qualification to do the work. Of course, the pathetic old bitch
is too embarrassed to admit that Americans cannot turn out enough qualified
people to fill the hi-tech positions available. If America had depended on
its own people to develope jet and rocket engines, they would still be
flying Wright Flyers. Had America not employed the services of Germans like
Werner von Braun the Russians would have blown them away totally in the
space race
Yep, real benefit. <sarcasm>
> Of course I didn't read Dorf's message 'cause I never saw it--probably
> because he is among those who do not get read for various excellent
reasons.
>
> Agree or disagree with Long in other things, he is on target here. Bottom
> line is that I see high-tech people, well trained, experienced, excellent
> workers, being laid off and replaced by low-wage foreigners.
You do huh??? So where do you SEE all these folks being replaced??? Next
thing you will tell us you run an employment agency
As an example, my salary is substantially higher than my peers, so your
claim is like most everything else you say. Pure unadulterated bullshit,
sucked out of your thumb
Sorry, I forgot!! You know EVERYONE, and you work EVERYWHERE!!!
>
>
> Douglas K Long wrote in message <7lin9i$1b9$1...@news.uta.edu>...
Aviator
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Jafo wrote in message <378a101c...@news1.cheetah.net>...
>
> >In any case I've never understood the concept of killfiling
> >interest in reading only the output of those who agree with me.
> >
> enough to believe that if I used thoughtful reasoning to express the
truth,
> people would see the light. Now I know better.
The only thing you know is that when you are caught bullshitting, your
immediate reaction is to killfile the person who nailed you
I try a while and if the
> person isn't bright enough to see the truth, I pass right on by.
In other words, if someone disagrees with you or catches you out for lying,
you killfile them
You see, I
> have better things to do with my time than to get into a battle of
intellect
> and reason with the unarmed.
Translation: When i don't understand what is bing said, I killfile the
poster to avoid further embarrassing myself
I don't mind those who disagree with me and
> can reason. It generally doesn't take me long to find the crack in the
> reason, but it is at least a good intellectual exercise for all concerned.
> It is those who cannot or refuse to think and reason as though they are
> intelligent human beings that I simply have no time to deal with. But
then,
> I do stay very busy with many varied and interesting things. I have no
> problem with those who find the assholes and ignorant humorous, I simply
> don't have time for the foolishness.
Are you kidding?? All the crap you post is foolish, lies and fabrication
>
>
>
hc23hc
>
> hc23hc (hc2...@artlink.ne) wrote:
>
> : > The visa holders aren't "enabling our high-tech industries to
> : > survive." Those industries would thrive without them.
>
> : In macroeconomic terms, America has not educated enough domestic students
> : to cope with the demands of its domestic industry. The imported ones come
> : here pre-educated at no charge. The net result: what a bargain for the USA.
>
Gates is kind of tied up right now, and the government seems less interested
in listening to any educational theories he might have than in it is in appropriating
some of his dough by your favorite means: eminent domain. Basically, Gates had
nothing to do with inventing H-1B visas. American industry as a whole still pays
less for education than its counterparts in the rest of the industrialized world.
> : > visa holders are, however, allowing companies to employ a work
> : > force less expensive and more susceptible to control and
> : > manipulation than the native work force - dependent as the
> : > visa holders are upon the continued sponsorship of the
> : > employers.
>
> : Right on, Doug, strike a blow against peonage. A little bit late, since
> : Labor Law matured beyond you in that respect, decades ago. Your mythology
> : degrades visa holders as supine, craven fools who allow American employers
> : to walk all over them. In everyday reality, *crawling* is a job custom
> : tailored to suit all uneducated domestic scabs, and no-one can take that
> : away from them.
>
> Evidently the extent to which domestics crawl is insufficient to
> satisfy Gates et al, and so the visa holders continue to arrive.
If your last stand is to demonize Gates, you don't have a lot going for you
in this argument. He is just one of a thousand examples. If the others weren't
so busy doing exactly the same thing, they'd probably invest more time in
solidarity with him than in grubbing their snouts into the short-order pork
trough. The fact stands: your colleague's contention that "we are educating
the world" is bogus and your attempt at proving it has failed.
> And what might seem supine and craven to us is to the visa holders
> merely kow-towing on golden pavement - they can kow-tow here or
> in their beloved homelands, but here pays much better.
That also remains to be seen. Remuneration packages in the European Union are
often higher than comparable US opportunities, so the visa holders are probably
more often than not expressing a lifestyle commitment by choosing to work, if
possible, in this country. They're trying to make the American Dream come true,
while you and your jaundiced gang of isolationist wheelchair quarterbackers have
yet to co-ordinate a viable set of rapid eye movements. let alone an educational
system fit to make much impact on the 21st Century.
What is it about international worker solidarity that so upsets
your little apple cart, Doug?
.
.
.
Jafo
hc23hc wrote, regarding the competitors of Bill Gates:
>If the others weren't so busy doing exactly the same thing, they'd
>probably invest more time in solidarity with him than in grubbing
>their snouts into the short-order pork trough.
Not a bad point.
Aviator
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Bill wrote in message <7lnegm$bmp$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com>...
> >In article <378a101c...@news1.cheetah.net>,
> >Jafo <jafo@_cheetah.net> posted, then thought about:
> >
> >> In any case I've never understood the concept of killfiling
> >>those whose opinions are other than my own, as I have no particular
> >>interest in reading only the output of those who agree with me.
> >
demonstrated
> >no clear opinion, nor have they deomstrated the mental clarity to form an
> >opinion.
> >
> >Hell, when I sign on and find 500+ messages, ignoring everything from
> >Miggy, Avi, Slick, and Food quickly eliminates Chaff - and experience
> >shows it also does nothing to reduce content.
> >
> You've hit the nail on the head. I remember when I could visit this
> newsgroup daily and find only five or ten posts--some of them Jafo's, some
> of them mine. The rest belonged to the original asshole of the n.g. :)
As usual, AngelIdiot appends her usual simpering agreement to those who are
as brainless as she is. As usual, she doesn't have the intestinal fortiude
to even attempt to engage anyone who disagrees with her
She is worse than pathetic
>
>
>
Aviator
Bill <wmcc...@206.165.6.208> wrote in message
news:7lnegm$bmp$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> In article <378a101c...@news1.cheetah.net>,
> Jafo <jafo@_cheetah.net> posted, then thought about:
>
> > In any case I've never understood the concept of killfiling
> >those whose opinions are other than my own, as I have no particular
> >interest in reading only the output of those who agree with me.
>
> Perhaps you should look at it as she killfiles those who have demonstrated
> no clear opinion, nor have they deomstrated the mental clarity to form an
> opinion.
Au contraire, oh brainless one. Instead of waxing pseudo-intelligent, try
reading some of the discussions where she has killfiled the poster due to a
total lack of her ability to respond with even a modicum of intelligence
>
> Hell, when I sign on and find 500+ messages, ignoring everything from
> Miggy, Avi, Slick, and Food quickly eliminates Chaff - and experience
> shows it also does nothing to reduce content.
It simply shows that you are the same pathetic type of "yes-man"
>
>
> --
> If a 6600 used paper tape instead of core memory, it would use up tape
> at about 30 miles/second.
> -- Grishman, Assembly Language Programming
Aviator
> hc23hc (hc2...@artlink.ne) wrote:
>
> : > The visa holders aren't "enabling our high-tech industries to
> : > survive." Those industries would thrive without them.
>
> : There are industries whose survival in America depends on H-1 visa
holders.
> : In macroeconomic terms, America has not educated enough domestic
students
> : to cope with the demands of its domestic industry. The imported ones
come
> : here pre-educated at no charge. The net result: what a bargain for the
USA.
>
> That is the myth made popular by Gates et al.
Ive been there, Klong, you haven't. As usual, you have it backwards
>
> : > visa holders are, however, allowing companies to employ a work
> : > force less expensive and more susceptible to control and
> : > manipulation than the native work force - dependent as the
> : > visa holders are upon the continued sponsorship of the
> : > employers.
>
> : Right on, Doug, strike a blow against peonage. A little bit late, since
> : Labor Law matured beyond you in that respect, decades ago. Your
mythology
> : degrades visa holders as supine, craven fools who allow American
employers
> : to walk all over them. In everyday reality, *crawling* is a job custom
> : tailored to suit all uneducated domestic scabs, and no-one can take that
> : away from them.
>
> Evidently the extent to which domestics crawl is insufficient to
> satisfy Gates et al, and so the visa holders continue to arrive.
> And what might seem supine and craven to us is to the visa holders
> merely kow-towing on golden pavement - they can kow-tow here or
> in their beloved homelands, but here pays much better.
I guess your forebears figured that one out too
Aviator
Jafo <jafo@_cheetah.net> wrote in message
news:3784ae7a...@news1.cheetah.net...
> As viewed from alt.california on Sun, 04 Jul 1999 11:10:54 -0700,
> hc23hc wrote, regarding the competitors of Bill Gates:
>
> >If the others weren't so busy doing exactly the same thing, they'd
> >probably invest more time in solidarity with him than in grubbing
> >their snouts into the short-order pork trough.
>
> Not a bad point.
Much as it goes against the grain to concur, in fairness, I must!!
Aviator
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Merlin Dorfman wrote in message <7lp92i$9...@dfw-ixnews14.ix.netcom.com>...
> >
> > This is really quite amusing. "My viewpoint is the only rational
> >one; if somebody disagrees with me they are wrong. I will try a few
> >times to explain the truth to them, and if they don't see it my way
> >they are being irrational and there is no point wasting time on them."
> > And conservatives accuse liberals of being self-righteous...
> >
> Guess you didn't read any of the disagreements I've had with anyone here.
>
> I thought since I hadn't seen the post to which Jafo was referring, I'd
> killfiled you. I was mistaken. But I'm not any more, you self-righteous
> asshole.
Your response is crystal clear proof that Dorfman is right. As dumb as they
come. She must be a natural blonde
>
>
>
Aviator
> Aviator (S...@tter.com) wrote:
>
> : > Stealing jobs from US citizens who need them.
>
> : Stealing??? I hate to tell you you dumb moron, that "needing" a job is
not
> : an automatic qualification to do the work. Of course, the pathetic old
bitch
> : is too embarrassed to admit that Americans cannot turn out enough
qualified
> : people to fill the hi-tech positions available. If America had depended
on
> : its own people to develope jet and rocket engines, they would still be
> : flying Wright Flyers. Had America not employed the services of Germans
like
> : Werner von Braun the Russians would have blown them away totally in the
> : space race
>
> scientists are better than their German scientists.* As
> to the rest of your silly assertions, your gullibility about
> not enough Americans to fill high-tech positions - the gospel
> according to Gates et al - and your woefully thin base of
> general knowledge make you just about the perfect subject
> of the corporate state; that is, thoughtless, entirely
> credulous, and capable only as a blind follower.
Now Klong, who has probably never even been in an INS office wants to base
his conclusions on "general knowledge". I have been through the system,
Doogie, so I am on point in this one, not in some ditch behind the lines
>
> : As an example, my salary is substantially higher than my peers, so your
> : claim is like most everything else you say. Pure unadulterated bullshit,
> : sucked out of your thumb
>
> Exactly what is your job, Aviator?
Computerized Avionics. Innovation of software and firmware. It takes a bit
more than an associate degree in history
>And to what extent is your
> father-in-law involved?
He owns a law firm (Who incidentally do not represent me) I was contracted
by one of your countrymen in South Africa, so your allusion that I needed to
exert some outside influence to get shoved unfairly ahead of similarly
qualified prospects falls on it's ass.
It is also of note that the position was vacant for up to 18 months before I
filled it
Merlin Dorfman
: enough to believe that if I used thoughtful reasoning to express the truth,
: people would see the light. Now I know better. I try a while and if the
: person isn't bright enough to see the truth, I pass right on by. You see, I
: have better things to do with my time than to get into a battle of intellect
: and reason with the unarmed. I don't mind those who disagree with me and
: can reason. It generally doesn't take me long to find the crack in the
: reason, but it is at least a good intellectual exercise for all concerned.
: It is those who cannot or refuse to think and reason as though they are
: intelligent human beings that I simply have no time to deal with. But then,
: I do stay very busy with many varied and interesting things. I have no
: problem with those who find the assholes and ignorant humorous, I simply
: don't have time for the foolishness.
This is really quite amusing. "My viewpoint is the only rational
Merlin Dorfman
: I thought since I hadn't seen the post to which Jafo was referring, I'd
: killfiled you. I was mistaken. But I'm not any more, you self-righteous
: asshole.
Coming from you, those are compliments!
Merlin Dorfman
: Douglas K Long <DKL...@utarlg.uta.edu> wrote in message
:> There's an old saying from the Cold War era: *Our German
:> scientists are better than their German scientists.* As
:> to the rest of your silly assertions, your gullibility about
:> not enough Americans to fill high-tech positions - the gospel
:> according to Gates et al - and your woefully thin base of
:> general knowledge make you just about the perfect subject
:> of the corporate state; that is, thoughtless, entirely
:> credulous, and capable only as a blind follower.
: Now Klong, who has probably never even been in an INS office wants to base
: his conclusions on "general knowledge". I have been through the system,
: Doogie, so I am on point in this one, not in some ditch behind the lines
:>
:> : As an example, my salary is substantially higher than my peers, so your
:> : claim is like most everything else you say. Pure unadulterated bullshit,
:> : sucked out of your thumb
:>
:> Exactly what is your job, Aviator?
: Computerized Avionics. Innovation of software and firmware. It takes a bit
: more than an associate degree in history
:>And to what extent is your
:> father-in-law involved?
: He owns a law firm (Who incidentally do not represent me) I was contracted
: by one of your countrymen in South Africa, so your allusion that I needed to
: exert some outside influence to get shoved unfairly ahead of similarly
: qualified prospects falls on it's ass.
: It is also of note that the position was vacant for up to 18 months before I
: filled it
I don't think there is any claim (certainly not on my part) that the
people hired on H1B visas or other non-citizens are unqualified for the
jobs. The claim is that there are, or could be with a little training
and assistance, Americans who are qualified for them, but industry
prefers the non citizens for various reasons (cheaper, more docile, etc.).
The further claim is that it is not in the national interest to permit
industry to continue to hire non-citizens on today's scale, much less
increase the scale. Since there may be a real or perceived conflict
between the short-term needs of industry and the larger, longer-term
national interest, the proper resolution is some government action
(other than increasing the number of H1B visas) to address the shortage,
either government-financed or -assisted training programs, or incentives
and/or penalties to encourage industry to do this themselves, etc.
hc23hc
>
> I don't think there is any claim (certainly not on my part) that the
> people hired on H1B visas or other non-citizens are unqualified for the
> jobs. The claim is that there are, or could be with a little training
> and assistance, Americans who are qualified for them, but industry
> prefers the non citizens for various reasons (cheaper, more docile, etc.).
Maybe: with a *lot* of training, and reciprocal education programs instead
of the current one-way-street situation of acquiring graduates from overseas,
the worst part of which, in my estimation, is the guilt-ridden patriotic
revival of malaise among domestic misfits about the immigrants' role in this
changing society...
> The further claim is that it is not in the national interest to permit
> industry to continue to hire non-citizens on today's scale, much less
> increase the scale. Since there may be a real or perceived conflict
> between the short-term needs of industry and the larger, longer-term
> national interest, the proper resolution is some government action
Such as ... making industry responsible for more of its infrastructural
costs and duties, before declaring a profit ?
.
.
.
Merlin Dorfman
: Merlin Dorfman wrote:
:>
:> I don't think there is any claim (certainly not on my part) that the
:> people hired on H1B visas or other non-citizens are unqualified for the
:> jobs. The claim is that there are, or could be with a little training
:> and assistance, Americans who are qualified for them, but industry
:> prefers the non citizens for various reasons (cheaper, more docile, etc.).
: Maybe: with a *lot* of training, and reciprocal education programs instead
: of the current one-way-street situation of acquiring graduates from overseas,
: the worst part of which, in my estimation, is the guilt-ridden patriotic
: revival of malaise among domestic misfits about the immigrants' role in this
: changing society...
I can tell you first-hand that it is often very little training,
maybe even zero. There is a reluctance to hire people over 40, maybe
even over 35, and people who don't have exactly the right (current hot
button) experience (e.g., programming-language-of-the-week) on their
resumes. Given a chance, however, these people can contribute
IMMEDIATELY because those hot-button skills are really not the only
things the employers need. So it is as much a psychological problem
on the part of the employer as any true skills deficiency.
And you are right that the jingoistic response is one of the
truly unfortunate side effects that could have some very serious
consequences.
:> The further claim is that it is not in the national interest to permit
:> industry to continue to hire non-citizens on today's scale, much less
:> increase the scale. Since there may be a real or perceived conflict
:> between the short-term needs of industry and the larger, longer-term
:> national interest, the proper resolution is some government action
: Such as ... making industry responsible for more of its infrastructural
: costs and duties, before declaring a profit ?
What a revolutionary concept!