Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Jarasa ndha and Krishna

[Gmail Team]

Jan 10, 2013

 

Dear Shrisha Rao, Namaste!

 

Here is my understanding. Two wives of Kansa were daughters of Jarasandha of Magadha. After Krisna killed Kansa, wives of Kansa told their father to take revenge. That was the starting point of enmity between Krishna and his clan Yadavas. There were many battles among them. In order to avoid more blood bath, Krishna decided to move away from Jarasanda. They moved to the area we call now Kaccha (Gujarata State). There they build Dvaraka-the golden city. If you have information different from this please post it here so I  will correct myself in my understanding of this ancient history. Thanks. N.R.Joshi

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Shrisha Rao <sh...@dvaita.org>
To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Dadhya nc horse head
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 19:49:07 +0530

El dic 22, 2012, a las 4:19 a.m., Gmail Team <gira...@juno.com> escribió:

> In my opinion Kurus could not conquer subcontinent because of Jarasandha of Magadha.

What is the textual (or other) basis for this opinion?

> It is Krishna who got Jarasandha killed because of enmity. He had to run away from his own relativeJarasandha and relate himself to Pandavas.

That requires acceptance of a strange principle, whence someone (e.g., Krishna) must consider one's maternal uncle's father-in-law (e.g., Jarasandha) as a relative, more so than first cousins (e.g., Pandavas).  Many people would have difficulty with this premise -- first cousins are often close, sometimes almost like siblings, while an uncle's father-in-law could well be a perfect stranger.

Regards,

Shrisha Rao

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[Srinivasan Acharya]

Dear Sirs,

Namamsi,

> It is Krishna who got Jarasandha killed because of enmity. He had to run away from his own relative Jarasandha and relate himself to Pandavas.

Bhagavan Srikrishna did not kill King Jarasandha because of enemity. Please refer to Mahabharata 0202211 “manuṣyāṇāṁ samālambhaḥ na ca dṛṣṭaḥ kadācana | sa kathaṁ mānuṣairdevaṁ śaṅkaraṁ yaṣṭumicchasi ||” 

By killing Jarasandha, Krishna freed 22000 princes, who were supposed to be slayed as offering to lord Shiva. Moreover, Krishna crowns the son of Jarasandha, Sahadeva as the king of Magadha land and does not become himself.

The texts have also pictured the fear of Krishna that Jarasandha had. Jarasandha forms a huge army of 23 Akshohini, attacks Krishna 22 times, and fails to kill mere 11-year-old lad. Krishna was of 55 while Jarasandha and Bhima fought each. 

--

ॐ तत् सत् - नमांसि

Thanks and Regards,
Srinivasan Acharya

Manipal (Karnataka)

[Srinivasan Acharya]

Please find few corrections, "Krishna freed nearly 100 princes" and "attacks Krishna 18 times"

Thanks,

Srini

[Gmail Team]

Jan 11, 2013

 

Thanks Srinivasan Acharya.

 

I agree with your glorification of Krishna. You agreed that Jarasandha of Magadha was powerful. You agreed that Krishna and his people moved away from Jarasandha. This is I wanted.

 

Now please check the following things in your Mahabharata. Arjuna had war with Hansadvaja of Campaa nagari and Arjuna killed his two sons. Then Hansadvaja entered the battlefield. After some time of fighting Krisna saw danger to Arjuna's life from Hansadvaja. Then Krishna intervened and pacified Hansadvaja and told him to support Arjuna in future. Next Arjuna was killed in the war with Babhruvaahana. Ulupi-Naaga kanya retrived him. What I am trying to make the point is that kings east of Ganga river were more powerful than Kurus in the west. Finally I would like you to check when did Arjuna go to Ladies Kingdom and what was the out come of that fight. Did Arjuna defeat the Ladies kingdom or he made truce with them by let Pramila (Sanskritized name) marry her. Thanks for your interest. N.R.Joshi.

[sadasivamurty rani]

Pranams to all.
The on going discussion on Jasrasandha and also on the prowess of Kurus and the people on the other side of the river Ganga is interesting.

1. But here I would like to place my observation that the story of Arjuna's death in the hands of Ulupi's son, or the Kingdom of Pramila and the Episode of Hansadhvaja are all parts of Jaiminiya Bharata but are not found in the Vyasa's Mahabharata (up to Svargarohana parava)..  Jaminiya Bharata doesn't enjoy the status of an ITIHASA as Vyasa's Mahabharata does and it is much more considered as a fictitious composition. So any of the episodes from it cannot be considered authentic.
2. Regarding the war between Sri Krishna and Jarasandha also it took place for 18 times between them. But a careful reading can give us information that in the first 17 times Sri Krishna was not defeated by Jarasandha.Instead having utterly defeated Jarasandha,  Srikrishna left him with lives out of mercy. Eighteenth time Krishna had a strategic plan in his mind. He foresaw that Jarasandha would be taking the help of Kalayavana whose death is destined to happen else where. As thought of by Krishna, Jarasandha attacked Krishna with the support of Kalayavana. In the meanwhile Srikrishna with the help of Vishvakarma built a big wealthy city named Dwaraka in middle of the Sea and shifted all the inhabitants of Madhura to the new city. Later having narrated his plan to Balabhdra he deviated Kalayavana towards a deserted mountain. Kalayavana started chasing Krishna. Krishna entered the cave where since Treata Yuga a king named MUCUKUNDA, a descendant of Ikshvaku's race, the son of Mandhata,  has been in Yoganidra . Krishna hid himself behind a stone. Kalayavana wrongly perceived MUCHUKUNDA for KRISHNA and kicked him.  Soon Muchukunda opened his eyes by the power of the Yogic fire emitted from his eyes the demon Kalayavana reduced to ashes. Later Srikrishna came back to Madhura and killed all the soldiers of Kalayavana and started taking away all the riches left by Kalayavana there to Dwaraka. In the meanwhile Jarasandha again attacked both Krishna and Balarama there. Pretending as if they were afraid of Jarasandha both the brothers (Krishna and Balarama) ran towards PRAVARSHANA GIRI.  Jarasandha surrounded the mountain and burnt it from all sides. Without being noticed by Jarasandha those two slipped off to Dwaraka. Here the strategy of Srikrishna is that that mountain was full of poisonous snakes and other harmful beings. It should be burnt to protect all the surrounding inhabitants from those snakes and other such beings. Hence that incident was developed.

3. More over Krishna clearly knows that the death of Jarasandha is destined to happen in the hands of Bhima. Hence he did not kill him. Other wise killing Jarasandha was not a problem for Krishna.

Hence correlating these incidents for a new theory that the people on the other banks of Ganga are more powerful than KURUS may be reconsidered.

Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

---

From: Gmail Team <gira...@juno.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 10:08 PM

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[Shankarji Jha]

Thanks, Dear Vidwan Rani Sadashiva Murti, for your inputs I completely agree with. Regards, 

Shankarji Jha,
Professor of Sanskrit,
Deptt of Sanskrit,
Panjab University,
Chandigarh-160014, INDIA

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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:12:20 +0800
From: ranisada...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Jarasa ndha and Krishna

To: gira...@juno.com; bvpar...@googlegroups.com

[Gmail Team]

Jan 12, 2013

 

Dear Dr Sadasivsmurty Rani,

 

Thanks for your input.

 

I have no problem with your posting on Krishna, Jarasandha, Kaalayavana, Dvaraka,  and Mucukunda. However I would like to bring your attention the following information.

 

You posted ," But here I would like to place my observation that the story of Arjuna's death in the hands of Ulupi's son, or the Kingdom of Pramila and the Episode of Hansadhvaja are all parts of Jaiminiya Bharata but are not found in the Vyasa's Mahabharata (up to Svargarohana parava)..  Jaminiya Bharata doesn't enjoy the status of an ITIHASA as Vyasa's Mahabharata does and it is much more considered as a fictitious composition. So any of the episodes from it cannot be considered authentic."

 

It is personal choice to decide which book of the Mahabharata is authentic. First Babhruvahana was the son of the lady Chitrangada. He was not the son of Ulupi.

 

Next one cannot deny the existence of Ladies Kingdom of Pramila. Archaeological excavations in the Sinkyang province of China has unearthed the Ladies Kingdom. This is known all over the world. In 2009 Houston Museum of Fine Arts with the permission of the Afghanistan government brought all artifacts to USA and displayed them in the museum for months.

 

Main parties of Mahabharata conflicts were concentrated in the west in the lands now occupied by Pakistan and Afghanistan. Also one cannot deny existence of Naaga people in the ancient India. Takshaka was Naaga so was Ulupi.

 

For your information Kurus were not powerful all the time. King Samvarana (father of Kuru) has to run away from his enemies and hide around the Sindhu river. Could you please tell me from which direction Samvarana and his people reached Sindhu from the east of Sindhu or from the west of Sindhu? One time Shalvas drove away Kurus from Kurukshetra. After Janamejaya Paarikshit Kurus suffered their second misfortune due to locusts. It is only due the power of Bhisma and help of Krishna Kurus prospered for short time less that hundred years. Your input is appreciated. Thanks. N.R.Joshi.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: sadasivamurty rani <ranisada...@yahoo.com>
To: "gira...@juno.com" <gira...@juno.com>,  "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Jarasa ndha and Krishna
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:12:20 +0800 (SGT)

Pranams to all.
The on going discussion on Jasrasandha and also on the prowess of Kurus and the people on the other side of the river Ganga is interesting.

 
 

____________________________________________________________

[rniyengar]

Dr.Joshi, Can you please give the original Sanskrit textual source for
this statement:

>After Janamejaya Paarikshit Kurus suffered their second misfortune due to locusts.

Thanks

RNI

: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:12:20 +0800 (SGT)

> _______________________________________________
>

[sadasivamurty rani]

Dear Prof. Joshi ji!

Namaste.

After going through your latest mail I felt a lot of necessity to explain certain aspects. But I have a fear of the need of writing a volume on this. Of course I have enough stamina to deliver my goods but the other  commitments pull me from all sides  back to divert my concentration else where. Still I shall make a little attempt here to do justice to my observations. At the out set I should state two things. 1. My efforts are not to disregard your valuable pursuits. 2. I feel these observations may be helpful in the present pursuit. From this stand point I believe I shall be encouraged to proceed to present my observations in more deal. Here I would like to deal with three aspects :
1. Arjuna's Valor
Arjuna was the most valorous and the most powerful warrior of his times as evidenced from the Mahabharata. It was not only Bhishma and Krishna but also Arjuna who played a major role in managing with the events of their times to establish Dharma.
As the instances prove he never blindly used his weapons and astras against his enemies. He was most calculative in fighting with his foes. Otherwise had he used his Pasupata Astra, which has no parallel,  it alone could have ended the war just in a span of Muhurta time as declared by Arjuna in Pandava's Camp before the commencement of War at the time of assessment of the abilities of the warriors on Pandava's side. He had a proved profile of his valor through the progress of the Mahabharata story.
a) Arjuna's valor during Digvijaya at the time of Dharmaraja's  Rajasuya
On this occasion Arjuna went to conquer the Northern regions set out in the chariot gifted to him by the God Agni, holding the Gandiva bow together with the inexhaustible quiver. During his victorious tour he defeated kings such as Pulinda, Pratividnhya, the ruler of Uluka, and the kings like Vamadeva, Modapura, Sudama, Insankula, Malava, Puandra, Kashmira, Trigarta king, Lohta, Sudhanva, kings of Gandhara, Kambhoja, Kosala, Rishikulya and of the region of Manasa lake. More over He conquered  Sakala Dwipa (One of the 7 Dwipas of the Earth) along with all its 9 upadwipas. Particularly his war with Bhagadatta of Pragjyothisha needs a special mention too. He gave a tough fight of eight days and defeated that most powerful king Bhagadatta who had demonic skills and had peace treaty with him. At the time of fighting with Bhagadatta, the armies of China, Kirata Desa and other tribal kingdoms surrounding Pragajyotisha also stood on the side of Bhagadattha and were defeated by Arjuna. On the same occasion Arjuna defeated all the rulers of Lower, Upper and Middle Himalaya regions. All this account was very clearly depicted in the Rajasuya Digvijaya Upa Parva of Mahabharata.
b) Other Victories of Arjuna
The victory of Arjuna over Karna, Duryodhana and others at the time of Draupadi Svayamvara, his victory over Drupada as Gurudakshina to Drona (in the hands of which king all Karna, Duryodhana and others met with a clean defeat), his victory over Gandharvas at the time of Duryodhana's Ghoshayatra, his combat with lord Shiva, his victory over All Kauravas including Bhishma at the time of Gograhana as a sign of his future victory in the great Mahabharata war are all some illustrations of his extra ordinary skills and strength as a warrior par excellence.
c) His vicotory over all the regions on the other side of the River Ganges at the time of post war Ashvamedha Sacrifice of Yudhisthira
On this occasion also Arjuna once again toured around the regions of Trigartha, Pragjotisha during the rule of Vajradatta (the son of Bhagadatta), Magadha, Sindh, Gandhara etc. and conquered them all. At this time only he had to fight against his son Bhabhruvahana who was ruling Manipura
2. Babhruvahana's combat with Arjuna
Yes, I admit the fact that Babhruvahana was the son of Chtrangada one of the wives of Arjuna. But he was encouraged by Uluchi (also called Ululupi by some people),  the Naga wife of Arjuna, to fight against Arjuna.Chitrangada too exhorted him. As a result  there was a great fight between them in which eventually Arjuna and Babhruvahana fell on the battle field having been severely struck by shafts released simultneously by each other, particularly Arjuna had to fell down dead. By the power of Uluchi they got back their senses.Then Uluchi explained them all about the curse of the Ganges on the fall of Bhishma, according to which, Arjuna had to face this situation of meeting death in the hands of his Son and just by the Mohini Shakti o Uluchi he was saved from the danger. This is all because of the curse of Ganga and not really due to the valor of Babhruvahana. This account is there in the Mahabharata of Vyasa.

Here I would like to say that Only this episode of combat between Arjuna and Babhruvana is available in the Mahabharta. But the other stories like that of Pramila (The women's kingdom etc.) were not parts of the Mahabharata of Vyasa. For your kind information Jaiminiya Bharata was not another version of the Mahabharata. It was not even written by  Jaimini but was written by some one else and popularized in the name of Jaimini as evidences show.
Moreover you please verify my earlier mail. I didn't say that there was no women's kingdom in the world in ancient times. My only  claim was that Arjuna was not defeated in the hands of Pramila according to the Mahabharata of Veda Vyasa.

3. About the Strength of Kuru Race and Arjuna's Descendants
Nor even I spoke about the stregnth of Kurus.  In my previous mail no where I mentioned the KURUS were the strongest of all rulers of their times. My sole concern was about Arjuna's of valor only. Contextually I have to speak much about other particulars of the Kuru race and their valor.I will take another occasion to detail it. Of course as you said the valor and strength of Pandavas was not ended just with Janamejaya and with the attack of swarm of locust during the times of Janamejaya. I have a clean record of 21 generations of Arjuna's descendants with me which I cannot present here in our passing discussions of this kind. It needs a very serious deal. So I shall reveal it in a book form very soon when time permits.
Here I conclude that there are hundreds of more facts to prove the valor and energies of Arjuna. A keen study of the Mahabharata is necessary for appreciation.

 Regards,

Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

---

From: Gmail Team <gira...@juno.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, 12 January 2013 11:58 PM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Jarasa ndha and Krishna

Jan 12, 2013

 

Dear Dr Sadasivsmurty Rani,

 

Thanks for your input.

 

I have no problem with your posting on Krishna, Jarasandha, Kaalayavana, Dvaraka,  and Mucukunda. However I would like to bring your attention the following information.

 

You posted ," But here I would like to place my observation that the story of Arjuna's death in the hands of Ulupi's son, or the Kingdom of Pramila and the Episode of Hansadhvaja are all parts of Jaiminiya Bharata but are not found in the Vyasa's Mahabharata (up to Svargarohana parava)..  Jaminiya Bharata doesn't enjoy the status of an ITIHASA as Vyasa's Mahabharata does and it is much more considered as a fictitious composition. So any of the episodes from it cannot be considered authentic."

 

It is personal choice to decide which book of the Mahabharata is authentic. First Babhruvahana was the son of the lady Chitrangada. He was not the son of Ulupi.

 

Next one cannot deny the existence of Ladies Kingdom of Pramila. Archaeological excavations in the Sinkyang province of China has unearthed the Ladies Kingdom. This is known all over the world. In 2009 Houston Museum of Fine Arts with the permission of the Afghanistan government brought all artifacts to USA and displayed them in the museum for months.

 

Main parties of Mahabharata conflicts were concentrated in the west in the lands now occupied by Pakistan and Afghanistan. Also one cannot deny existence of Naaga people in the ancient India. Takshaka was Naaga so was Ulupi.

 

For your information Kurus were not powerful all the time. King Samvarana (father of Kuru) has to run away from his enemies and hide around the Sindhu river. Could you please tell me from which direction Samvarana and his people reached Sindhu from the east of Sindhu or from the west of Sindhu? One time Shalvas drove away Kurus from Kurukshetra. After Janamejaya Paarikshit Kurus suffered their second misfortune due to locusts. It is only due the power of Bhisma and help of Krishna Kurus prospered for short time less that hundred years. Your input is appreciated. Thanks. N.R.Joshi.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: sadasivamurty rani <ranisada...@yahoo.com>
To: "gira...@juno.com" <gira...@juno.com>,  "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Jarasa ndha and Krishna
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:12:20 +0800 (SGT)

Pranams to all.
The on going discussion on Jasrasandha and also on the prowess of Kurus and the people on the other side of the river Ganga is interesting.

 
 

____________________________________________________________

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