Is ancient Indian astrology/astronomy "nirayana/ sidereal"? No! Absolutely not!-I

[A K Kaul]

Respected members of Bharatiya Vidvat Parishad,

Jai Shri Ram!

There is a misconception that ancient Indian astronomy and astrology has been nirayana, which is euphemistically known as sidereal.

It is also believed that (only) Western astrology and astronomy is tropical also known as Sayana.

Difference between tropical and nirayana:

First  of all we must clarify it a bit as to what the two systems mean.

In the tropical system, Aries i.e Mesha Rashi starts always from the moment of Vernal Equinox, (Vasant Sampaat), when days and nights are equal throughout the world;   Cancer ingress (Karkata Samkranti) is the day  of Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) the longest day of the year,  Libra ingress (Tula Samkranti) is the day of Autumn Equinox (Saharat Sampaat) when day is equal to night  and Capricorn ingress (Makar Samkranti) the shortest day of the year  known as Winter Solstice (Uttarayan).

These rashis are unrelated to nakshatra divisions, whether equal or unequal or even their namesake stars.

On the other hand, Hindu  Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis are unrelated to seasons and Solstices and Equinoxes etc. but related only to Ashvini, Bharni etc. 27 equal nakshatra divisions and therefore known as sidereal.  

These Rashis and/or nakshatras never start from a fixed point though they are supposed to start from some star---sidereal!  Every year an arbitrary incremental ayanamsha is to be subtracted from the actual tropical longitudes of planets determined by JPL/NASA etc.  to arrive at the desired "sidereal" longitudes!

Technically speaking, the latter  are imaginary divisions---both nakshatras as well as Rashis and different Rashi-chakras are supposed to have different starting points. Lahiri Rashichakra has a starting point away by about 24 degrees from the Vernal Equinox these days whereas Ramana Rashichakra has a different starting point, the Grahalaghava Rashichakra an entirely different starting point and the Surya Siddhanta Rashichakra a much different starting point and so on.  Then again, these starting points will go on changing every year by about 53 arc seconds till eternity!

However, all are supposed to be nirayana (sidereal)

However, all those Rashichakras are supposed to be sidereal!

Was Varahamhira, the earliest known indigenous astronomer and astrologer,  Sayana or Nirayana?

Varahamihira was around in Shaka 428 i.e 505 AD.  He was the most well versed and prolific astrologer and astronomer of his times.  His Panchasiddhantika is a compilation of five siddhantas which were prevailing in his time, the most prominent one being the well known Surya Siddhanta.  His Brihat Samhita is a masterly and encyclopedic astronomical work of mundane astrology as well as planetary motions etc.  Similarly, his Brihaj-Jatakam is the earliest indigenous work of genelithical astrological lore.  It is a must for anybody who wants to learn predictive astrology and is a prescribed text book in predictive astrology examinations of every college/university.

Though Varahamihira has referred to quite a few astrologers like Satyacharya, Manittha, Maya, Yavana and Parashara etc. as his predecessors but almost all of them are yavanas except for Parashara, who has been said to be the son of Shakti Rishi (and is supposed to be the father of the famous Veda Vyasa).

But the astrological work of Parashara viz.   Brihat Parashara Hora Shastram was not available even at the time of Bhatotpala in tenth century CE. Though there are about half a dozen versions of that work available in the market today, with none agreeing with the other, it is extremely doubtful if any of those versions are really authentic especially as none of those editions claims to have been compiled by Maharshi Parashara.

As such, we will have to depend on Varhamihira.  As on date, if any astrologer is recognized as the "Varahamihira" he is supposed to have got the "Param-Veera-Chakra" of predictive astrology!

What type of Rashis has Varahamihira used in his works?

In III/23 of his Panchasiddhantika he has said  मेष तुलादौ विषुवं..... "At the first point of Mesha/Aries and Libra/Tula are the Spring and Autumnal Equinoxes when days and nights are equal! ......

Then in 25th shloka of the same chapter, Varahamihira has said

  उदगयनं मकरादावृतवः शिशिरादयश्च सूर्यवशात् | द्विभवनकालसमानम् दक्षिनायणंच  कर्कटात् ||

"The sun's turning north (Uttarayana -- Winter Solstice) is when it reaches the zero point of Makara (Capricorn) and its turning South (Dakshinayana---Summer Solstice) is when it is at the zero point of Karkata (Cancer) with the attendant sacred days.  The seasons Shishira etc. commence with the winter solstice and each season lasts two (tropical) solar months".  

The attachments eps2 and eps3 are English translation/commentary on these shlokas by the well known South Indian scholars T S Kuppanna Sastry and Dr. K V Sarma.

Both these scholars have lamented (exactly as I am lamenting now a days!) that all our  timings of Vedic rituals have become Topsy turvy because of the "nirayana" mayhem!

Quote

"But confusion there has been and still continues with the result that people call Mesha and even Vrishabha spring months, though patently we have summer then, Kumbha and Mina being practically the spring months now.  This confusion has resulted in Madhu, Madhava etc. and Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. as synonyms.  People who know are amused, when in the Samkalpa recited for Hindu rituals the month of Rishabh which is advanced Summer, is mentioned as Spring".

The fact of the matter is that Varahamihira has repeated the same thing that we find in the Mana-Adhyaya of the Surya Siddhanta

भानोर्मकर सँक्रान्तेः षण्मासाः उत्तरायणम्। कर्कयादेस्तथैव  स्यात् षण्मासाः दक्षणायनँ।।

द्विराशिनाथाः  ऋतवस्ततोपि शिशिरादयः।मेषादयो द्वादशैते मासैस्तैरेव वत्सर:।। 

As per attachment SS-5, the well known 19th century Samskrit scholar of Varanasi, viz. Pandit Sudhakar Dwivedi has minced no words while translating it and has clubbed Uttarayana, the shortest day of the year with Makar Samkranti and so on.  He has made it very clear that during the sojourn of the sun in Makar and Kumbha it is Shishira Ritu, during Mina and Mesha it is Vasanta Ritu and so on!

In short, Varahamihira, the most reputed astrologer and astronomer of yore, and the Surya Siddhanta, the earliest Rashi based indigenous astronomical work have talked of and advocated nothing but a tropical i.e. Sayana Rashichakra for astrological and astronomical purposes!

We will further talk about his Brihat Samhita and Brihaj-Jatakam etc. in the next mail.

Till then, with regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

[Irene Galstian]

Sir, 

If possible, could you please add the next mail(s) to this thread, or to another single thread of your choice? I'm compiling your contributions for a personal wiki, and dispersion over many different threads means that some of your teachings can easily be overlooked - by myself, as well as by others. 

Thank you,

Irene

[A K Kaul]

Sir,

Jai Shri Ram!

I just posted a mail in continuation of the earlier thread, but it has appeared as a single mail in a new thread probably because the heading was ''Is ancient....not!-2" instead  of ''Is ancient.....not!-1".

Kindly suggest a way out for the same, since I would like to continue this topic serially.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

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[Irene Galstian]

Thank you for the update, Sir.

Most likely it was the slight change in the title that made it into a new thread, but no need to stress yourself about it.

Best wishes,

Irene

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[Madhivanan]

Respected members,

I would like to continue the discussion from the second post of Shri A K Kaul here. It is indeed sad that while the western countries follow the correct timings for makar sankranthi, we in India have been following the wrong system and messed up all the timings of our festivals. Even The Calendar Reform Committee, of which Shri Lahiri was a member, said so in its final recommendation:

"The calculation of solar (saura) months necessary for determining the lunar months of the same name, will start 23°15′ ahead of the vernal equinoctial point. This tallies with the present practice of most almanac-makers.

This recommendation is to be regarded only as a measure of compromise, so that we avoid a violent break with the established custom. But it does not make our present seasons in the various months as they were in the days of Varahamihira or Kalidasa. It is hoped that at not a distant date, further reforms for locating the lunar and solar festivals in the seasons in which they were originally observed will be adopted.” (emphasis mine)

report of The calendar reform committee, page 7

The Committee gave in to the distorted beliefs of the then almanac-makers and astrologers and followed a nirayana calendar for the festivals instead of setting things right then when the opportunity arose. But it left it for us in the "at not a distant date" in future to restore the festivals to how our sages designed it.

As already mentioned, Varahamihira wrote these books about 2000 years back, but our culture dates back a long time ago. It is unfortunate that most of the books and scriptures from those periods were lost and are no longer available. Fourtunately, some manuscripts describing the astrological predictions interpreted by our saptarishis are being preserved now in Government Oriental Manuscripts Library, Chennai. This collection called 'Saptarishi Nadi' throws ample light on the system followed way back in the time of our sages.

In one of the horoscopes described (Horoscope 47), the sages place the moon in the zodiac sign Scorpio. The Vimshottari dasa system is based on the position of the moon and its nakshatra. As seen in the verse below, the sages describe the nakshatra and dasa period at birth.

The nakshatra is Vishakha and the remaining dasa period is 13 years and 8 months of Jupiter dasa. This places the Moon in the 1^st padam and not in the 4^th of Vishakha. Hence, we see that the sage places Vishakha’s 1^st padam in Scorpio!

According to the Sidereal zodiac followed by our astrologers today, vishakha 4th padam is in Scorpio and the first three padams are in Libra. If our sages had used a sidereal zodiac, they would not have described Vishakha 1st padam in Scorpio. If our sages did not follow the sidereal zodiac as defined by our astrologers today, what did they follow? Tropical! This is not the only instance in the manuscript where the sages described a planetary position outside the definitions of Sidereal zodiac.

More examples from the same collection and a detailed discussion on it can be found in my website: https://madhivanan.in/saptarishis-used-tropical-zodiac/

Dr. Madhivanan.

[Madhivanan]

I would also like to add the opinion of shri C G Rajan, the editor of 'Saptarishi Nadi' series published by the Government Oriental Manuscripts Library, Madras, regarding the birth chart of Rama being tropical. He has discounted the possibility of it being sidereal, on account of it being an impossible one under that system. I reproduce the relevant page here:

I have reproduced these lines for better readability:

"In the horoscope of Rama, the Sun was in exaltation in Mesha rasi, the Moon was in Punarvasu nakshatra (constellation) and the tithi (i.e., the age of the Moon) was Navami, the ninth tithi. Even if we take the extreme case of the Sun being in the beginning of the first degree of the sidereal Mesha rasi, and the Moon being in the end of the last degree of the constellational Punarvasu (i.e., at 93°20' of the sidereal Nirayana longitude, the elongation (i.e., the distance) of the Moon from the Sun would be 93° 20' at the most. This elongation of 93° 20' would mean only Astami (i.e., eighth) tithi at the rate of twelve degrees for a tithi, and the tithi would not thus have been the Navami tithi as stated in Ramayana. If Rama’s horoscope was cast according to the sidereal zodiac, it should be an impossible one and will not represent the true state of the heavens. If it is a true horoscope, the Sun should have been in some other place than the sidereal Mesha. If the Sun is shifted backwards by at least 2° 40' (equal to 96° minus 93°20'), the horoscope of Rama would be a possible one, and this means that the Sun should have been then in Meena rasi of the sidereal (or nirayana) zodiac or the sign Aries of the tropical (sayana) zodiac. If it was the Meena rasi of the sidereal zodiac, then the Sun would not have been in exaltation. It therefore follows that the Sun should have been only in the sign Aries of the tropical zodiac.

C. G. Rajan, Madras, 24^th June 1956."

How come sage Valmiki recorded the birth time of Rama if it was impossible under the sidereal system? Obviously, sage Valmiki did not err in describing a tropical position, as our ancestors used a tropical zodiac. Those who believe in Rama/Ramayana must realize that Rama's horoscope is impossible under the sidereal system. It is our mistake to have followed the sidereal system for so long, but it is understandable as we are in Kali yuga.

I have explained this concept with additional graphics in my post: Sri Rama’s horoscope is definitely tropical

Dr. Madhivanan

[A K Kaul]

Dear Dr. Madhivanan,

Jai Shri Ram!

I am very late in replying your mail,  My apologies!

( The problem  actually is that earlier I had  the maximum information in pdf etc. forms in my desktop/hard-disk but there are some hiccups (hacking!) with the result that I have to, after jogging my memory left and right, hunt for the same in hard-copies!  And, as you know, it is not an easy job!)

<How come sage Valmiki recorded the birth time of Rama if it was impossible under the sidereal system? Obviously, sage Valmiki did not err in describing a tropical position, as our ancestors used a tropical zodiac. Those who believe in Rama/Ramayana must realize that Rama's horoscope is impossible under the sidereal system. It is our mistake to have followed the sidereal system for so long, but it is understandable as we are in Kali yuga.> 

I recall having read quite a few articles of C G Rajan in the Astrological Magazine.

In one of his articles he had tried to prove that the combination of the exalted sun in Mesha and Moon in Karkata and Punarvasu nakshatra in the horoscope of Bhagwan Ram could be possible only if the horoscope had been prepared from the astronomical work of 15th century BCE viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha!  It was a long article of several pages but I do not remember as to when it was published.

When did Bhagwan Ram Incarnate?

In any case, we have as yet absolutely no idea as to when Bhagwan Ram had incarnated actually because of the following reasons:

1. Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have Incarnated in the fag end of Tretayuga.  And the Tretayuga of Surya Siddhanta (we can call it Maya-Mahasura Tretayuga!) ended 3101+2019=5120 years of Kaliyuga + 864000 years of Dwapara Yuga = 869120 years back.

As per Aryabhatiya Yuga duration, Bhagwan Ram Incarnated in 5120 years of Kaliyuga plus 1080000 years of Dwaparayuga = 1085120 years back---i.e. more than 20000 yeas prior to Maya-Mahasura "calculations".

2. Even if we presume that the duration of yugas, whether that of the Surya Siddhanta or even Aryabhatiya is nothing but fantasy of some scholars, we cannot brush away the following shlokas of the Valmiki Ramayana itself:

हत्वा क्रूरं दुरादर्षं देवर्षीणां भयावहम् | दशवर्षसहस्राणि दशवर्षशतानि च ||वत्स्यामि मानुषे लोके पालयन् पृथ्वीं इमां ||(1/15/29-30)

Dispatching on the field of battle..the cruel and formidable Ravana........I shall remain on the mortal plane ruling over this globe for eleven thousand years. (Gita Press translation)

Having promised thus before His Incarnation, the same Valmiki Ramayana tells us that He was reminded of His promise by (God of) Death as per Uttarakanda 104/12 in the following words

दशवर्षसहस्राणि दशवर्षशतानि च | कृत्वा वासस्य नियमं स्वयमेवात्मना पुरा ||.....  कालोSयं  ते नरश्रेष्ठ समीपं उपवर्तितुम् 

You had set your mind on having a human form..and you yourself fixed the span of your stay (among the mortals) for ten thousand and ten hundred years formerly.....The span of your stay on earth as human being is complete now and it is time for you to come back to us.

(Pl. see attachments Ramarajya11000yrs._1&II)

We also find in the VR 2/2/8 a statement from king Dasharatha

प्राप्य वर्ष सहस्राणि बहुन्यायूंषि जीवतः | जीर्णस्यास्य शरीरस्य विश्रान्तिमभिरोचये |

I desire to give rest to this worn out body, which has now run many rounds of a human span of life having attained an age of (sixty) thousands of years...(Gita Press translation)

अनेकवर्ष साहस्रो वृद्धस्त्वमसि पार्थिव| स रामं युवराजानमभिषिञचस्व  पार्थिवं 2/2/21

''You have ruled for many thousands of years and have grown old, O ruler of the earth!  Such that you are, (pray) install as Prince regent Sri Rama, who is fit to rule the earth." (Gita Press translation).

Have the "Vedic astrologers" really read the Valmiki Ramayana?

The earliest ''year" of Incarnation of Bhagwan Ram that we have as on date is that of Nilesh Oak, who claims the Rama-Ravana-Yuddha to have taken place around 12000 BCE.  That means Bhagwan Ram ruled after that for 11000 years i.e. till about 1000 BCE.  However, the same Nilesh Oak says that the Mahabharata war took place in 5561 BCE.  Thus Rama-Rajya was still going on when the Mahabharata war took place!

Similarly, Dr. P V  Vartak was of the view that Bhagwan Ram had Incarnated on December 4, 7323 BCE and the Mahabharata war had taken place on October 16, 5561 BCE (same date as that of Nilesh Oak).  Thus since Bhagwan Ram is supposed to have ruled/to rule for 11000 years, that means as per Dr. Vartak Bhagwan Ram is still around and will remain so till about 4000 AD!  The Mahabharata war, in the meantime, must have been "leela" of the same Bhagwan Ram, which only Dr. Vartak and his "colleagues" could have ''witnessed"! 

Then we have the date of Incarnation of Bhagwan Ram from the late I T Commissioner  Pushkar Bhatnagar as January 10, 5114 BCE.  So Bhagwan Ram will be around till 6000 AD!  Similarly, in case of C G Rajan's date of Bhagwan Ram as 4045 BCE, He will be ruling the globe till about 7000 AD!

Thus you can see it for yourself that none of these scholars seem to have read the Valmiki Ramayana at all, as otherwise they would not have made such a mess of divine Incarnations!

Are there interpolations in the Valmiki Ramayana aslo?

And if we presume that the long spans of Rama Rajya and the reign of king Dasharatha etc. are later interpolations, that means the astrological planetary details of Bhagwan Ram and His siblings etc. are also interpolations of much later days!

Same is the case with the Mahabharata!

Why do the "Vedic astrologers" not calculate the planetary positions of divine Incarnations as per the Surya Siddhanta?

The million dollar questions is that as there was no modern astronomy prior to Copernicus and Galileo etc. of about 15th century CE,  then why do all these scholars calculate the planetary positions of even divine Incarnations or the date of Mahabharata war etc. from the software from JPL/NASA?  On the one hand, we claim that we had astronomical works like the Surya Siddhanta which could calculate planetary positions for billions  of years in a jiffy, but in the same breath we take  refuge behind JPL/NASA for calculating planetary positions of even 12000 BCE!  As on date, NASA/JPL software cannot calculate planetary positions earlier to about 15000 BCE at the earliest and maybe that is why they are putting a limit to divine Incarnations at about 12000 BCE!

Saptarshi Nadi is just like Brighu Samhita and even Ravana Samhita or even Aruna Samhita and so on!

Regarding the planetary details in "Saptarshi Nadi" etc., since we did not have Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in India till as late or as early as about 3rd/4th century BCE, Saptarshi Nadi is obviously a much later work, ascribed to "Satarshis", just as  some people ascribe Ravana Samhita to "Maha-Pandit" Ravana and Brighu Samhita to Brighu Rishi and Aruna Samhita to Aruna, the charioteer of Surya Bhagwan and so on!

The Saptarshi Nadi must have been a work prepared by some later astrologers assiduously.

The Hindu calendar needs to be streamlined---the earlier the better!

 The long and short of this mail is that we must concentrate on streamlining the Hindu calendar as early as possible since by celebrating all the festivals and muhurtas on wrong days, we are literally killing our own dharma ourselves!

And as the saying goes

धर्मो रक्षति रक्षितः धर्मो हन्ति हतः ||

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

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[Shrinivas Tilak]