Stylesheet ignored by host
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Top Geek
Jun 14, 2016, 1:27:56 PM6/14/16
to bluegriffon
I am new to BG so I risk making incorrect assumptions during the
learning period. Previously, I used FrontPage to create and maintain my
club web site but, since upgrading to Windows 10, that is no longer
possible and I looked around for another package that I could use to
adapt the 24-page site. BG looked about the best so I've now reached the
point where the newly assembled site has been uploaded to the host
server. However, four pages had banner fonts that were too small. The
only way I have found to increase font size was to create a stylesheet
and apply it to each of the four pages. That worked perfectly when I
verified the changes in Firefox on my PC so I uploaded the modified
files and checked again on line. Strangely (to me) the online pages have
reverted to their original font size. I guess I have failed to do
something but I just have no idea what's wrong.
Can anyone please tell me?
Can anyone please tell me?
Greg Chapman
Jun 14, 2016, 4:43:50 PM6/14/16
to blueg...@googlegroups.com
Hi Top!
No need to post three times. It was undoubtedly because, as a new user,
your post needs to be approved by Daniel, before being passed to other
group users - but you weren't to know that!
On 14/06/16 17:52, Top Geek wrote:
> The only way I have found to increase font size was to create a
> stylesheet and apply it to each of the four pages.
It's true BlueGriffon does assume that you will be using current coding
techniques throughout your site, so while creating a stylesheet for the
sake of a heading on just four pages may seem cumbersome, in the long
run, once you convert all your pages to use a stylesheet you'll be
tankful for it, especially when you decide that your whole site needs a
makeover and the styles for every heading, paragraph, list, etc on the
site needs changing.
> That worked perfectly when I verified the changes in Firefox on my PC
> so I uploaded the modified files and checked again on line. Strangely
> (to me) the online pages have reverted to their original font size. I
> guess I have failed to do something but I just have no idea what's wrong.
The most likely things are not loading the stylsheet, not loading it to
the correct location, not giving it a relative link. It's always easiest
to provide a link to your site so others can properly diagnose your issue.
However, Daniel regards this as a forum for technical issues with
BlueGriffon itself, so he won't welcome a long thread on making proper
use of BlueGriffon. (As with the BlueGriffon manual, he feels that there
are enough tutorials elsewhere on the basics of HTML, CSS and uploading
to servers.) I recommend you follow-up at:
http://wysifauthoring.informe.com/forum/
While it may not appear so, that forum will cover BlueGriffon and there
are members there who will happily answer questions such as yours.
Greg Chapman
Running BlueGriffon 1.7.2 under Linux Mint 17.3
No need to post three times. It was undoubtedly because, as a new user,
your post needs to be approved by Daniel, before being passed to other
group users - but you weren't to know that!
On 14/06/16 17:52, Top Geek wrote:
> The only way I have found to increase font size was to create a
> stylesheet and apply it to each of the four pages.
techniques throughout your site, so while creating a stylesheet for the
sake of a heading on just four pages may seem cumbersome, in the long
run, once you convert all your pages to use a stylesheet you'll be
tankful for it, especially when you decide that your whole site needs a
makeover and the styles for every heading, paragraph, list, etc on the
site needs changing.
> That worked perfectly when I verified the changes in Firefox on my PC
> so I uploaded the modified files and checked again on line. Strangely
> (to me) the online pages have reverted to their original font size. I
> guess I have failed to do something but I just have no idea what's wrong.
the correct location, not giving it a relative link. It's always easiest
to provide a link to your site so others can properly diagnose your issue.
However, Daniel regards this as a forum for technical issues with
BlueGriffon itself, so he won't welcome a long thread on making proper
use of BlueGriffon. (As with the BlueGriffon manual, he feels that there
are enough tutorials elsewhere on the basics of HTML, CSS and uploading
to servers.) I recommend you follow-up at:
http://wysifauthoring.informe.com/forum/
While it may not appear so, that forum will cover BlueGriffon and there
are members there who will happily answer questions such as yours.
Greg Chapman
Running BlueGriffon 1.7.2 under Linux Mint 17.3
Top Geek
Jun 15, 2016, 7:24:45 AM6/15/16
to bluegriffon
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:27:56 PM UTC+2, Top Geek wrote:
I am new to BG so I risk making incorrect assumptions during the learning period. Previously, I used FrontPage to create and maintain my club web site but, since upgrading to Windows 10, that is no longer possible and I looked around for another package that I could use to adapt the 24-page site. BG looked about the best so I've now reached the point where the newly assembled site has been uploaded to the host server. However, four pages had banner fonts that were too small. The only way I have found to increase font size was to create a stylesheet and apply it to each of the four pages. That worked perfectly when I verified the changes in Firefox on my PC so I uploaded the modified files and checked again on line. Strangely (to me) the online pages have reverted to their original font size. I guess I have failed to do something but I just have no idea what's wrong.
Can anyone please tell me?
Thanks for answering Greg. Sorry for the triple post. It was not till the third one that I noticed the brief flash pop-up at the bottom of the screen, saying that my post would only appear after verification.
I had searched for a BG Forum and was referred here. I did not realise that this Google Group is as esoteric as BG itself. If only WYSIWYG was a true description of the product.
I also bought and searched the User Manual but found nothing about changing font size. Very frustrating! So, to use this WYSIWYG product you first have to learn HTML and CSS. Great!
Greg Chapman
Jun 15, 2016, 11:05:43 AM6/15/16
to blueg...@googlegroups.com
Hi Top,
On 15/06/16 12:24, Top Geek wrote:
>
> I had searched for a BG Forum and was referred here.
That's reasonable! It is the author's official support forum.
> I did not realise that this Google Group is as esoteric as BG itself.
> If only WYSIWYG was a true description of the product.
That may be a little harsh on Daniel. His aim is to produce a web
development tool that will generate HTML/CSS code that is fully
compliant with W3C standards and at the same time produce a result that
exactly matches what you would see on the web. He has achieved that.
What you see in BlueGriffon is exactly what you get in Firefox, and
should be very similar to what you get in any other browser (subject to
the device and browser used).
I am guessing where you are coming from. You are probably very used to
creating printed documents of no more that a few pages - letters, memos
and maybe longer reports. But if you are like most authors, even the
longer documents containing many types of headings, sub-headings, lists
and tables and various illustrations, are likely not to be so complex
that you cannot do it all the formatting by selecting the text or
illustration and clicking on a button or two on the toolbar of your word
processor or DTP program.
Only if you have been used to working with other authors, each delegated
to write a single chapter of a long book or annual report are you likely
to be familiar with the more esoteric aspects of a word processors such
as all the facilities available in character and paragraph styles, page
formats, the difference between line-end and paragraph marks, and the
use of templates designed by others, so that when combined by a third
party editor, and turned into a PDF document all the headings will
produce correctly formatted and indented bookmarks. Producing a modern
web site can be regarded as a bit like that.
A web site is a collection of documents, all of which need to have the
same look and feel and all of which may need to be changed to match the
new company logo or colour scheme every couple of years. Over the last
20 years, as technology has developed, sites have needed to accommodate
first ever larger screens, and then more recently, much smaller ones, as
smart phones and tablets have come on the scene.
Then there's been the development of disability legislation that
requires sites to be accessible by those who use screen readers to
listen to a site, rather than look at it, or who require large fonts or
high contrast formats.
In short in developing a web site, you cannot treat it as you would when
producing paper document of a few pages. A web site needs to be
ultimately, flexible and capable of being rendered not only on screen or
paper of many different sizes but audibly as well.
In consequence the design of BlueGriffon does require a user to have
some understanding of how the modern web site needs to be constructed to
get the best from it and Daniel does expect you to get that knowledge
from elsewhere.
> I also bought and searched the User Manual but found nothing about
> changing font size. Very frustrating! So, to use this WYSIWYG product
> you first have to learn HTML and CSS. Great!
Any web page is a combination of content and presentation. Content is
written in HTML, text that contains tags around the various elements, to
mark it as a heading, paragraph, list or table, etc. It is not enough to
make text bigger or a different colour. Search engines don't recognise
size and colour as indicating importance, only the tags. Presentation is
controlled by CSS, normally contained in a stylesheet file which is read
by the browser as it loads a page.
Using a stylesheet is essential for virtually any site as many pages on
a site will rarely change while others are updated often. Over the
years, without a stylesheet, you'll find yourself building the pages in
subtly different ways. Without a stylesheet even monir changes to the
colour scheme or fonts used on a site of more than a handful of pages
becomes a nightmare to edit. If your site lasts more than a five years,
it will begin to look dated and need an update. Start with a stylesheet
and you'll thankful in a couple of years time.
You do not need any detailed knowledge of the commands and syntax of
these languages to use BlueGriffon. It does it all for you, but to make
rapid progress with the program (or any other web development tool) you
do need an appreciation of what it takes to build a web site. It is very
different to either word processing (essentially, text formatting for
print) or DTP (page design for print). Unlike those tasks, in web design
you have no control over the final document. It stays in electronic
format until the visitor arrives and then it depends entirely on the
device and the software being used as to how it will appear or sound to him.
I'll not respond further here as I don't believe such discussion welcome
but await your arrival at:
http://wysifauthoring.informe.com/forum/
where you will find others like me happy to help further.
Greg
On 15/06/16 12:24, Top Geek wrote:
>
> I had searched for a BG Forum and was referred here.
> I did not realise that this Google Group is as esoteric as BG itself.
> If only WYSIWYG was a true description of the product.
development tool that will generate HTML/CSS code that is fully
compliant with W3C standards and at the same time produce a result that
exactly matches what you would see on the web. He has achieved that.
What you see in BlueGriffon is exactly what you get in Firefox, and
should be very similar to what you get in any other browser (subject to
the device and browser used).
I am guessing where you are coming from. You are probably very used to
creating printed documents of no more that a few pages - letters, memos
and maybe longer reports. But if you are like most authors, even the
longer documents containing many types of headings, sub-headings, lists
and tables and various illustrations, are likely not to be so complex
that you cannot do it all the formatting by selecting the text or
illustration and clicking on a button or two on the toolbar of your word
processor or DTP program.
Only if you have been used to working with other authors, each delegated
to write a single chapter of a long book or annual report are you likely
to be familiar with the more esoteric aspects of a word processors such
as all the facilities available in character and paragraph styles, page
formats, the difference between line-end and paragraph marks, and the
use of templates designed by others, so that when combined by a third
party editor, and turned into a PDF document all the headings will
produce correctly formatted and indented bookmarks. Producing a modern
web site can be regarded as a bit like that.
A web site is a collection of documents, all of which need to have the
same look and feel and all of which may need to be changed to match the
new company logo or colour scheme every couple of years. Over the last
20 years, as technology has developed, sites have needed to accommodate
first ever larger screens, and then more recently, much smaller ones, as
smart phones and tablets have come on the scene.
Then there's been the development of disability legislation that
requires sites to be accessible by those who use screen readers to
listen to a site, rather than look at it, or who require large fonts or
high contrast formats.
In short in developing a web site, you cannot treat it as you would when
producing paper document of a few pages. A web site needs to be
ultimately, flexible and capable of being rendered not only on screen or
paper of many different sizes but audibly as well.
In consequence the design of BlueGriffon does require a user to have
some understanding of how the modern web site needs to be constructed to
get the best from it and Daniel does expect you to get that knowledge
from elsewhere.
> I also bought and searched the User Manual but found nothing about
> changing font size. Very frustrating! So, to use this WYSIWYG product
> you first have to learn HTML and CSS. Great!
written in HTML, text that contains tags around the various elements, to
mark it as a heading, paragraph, list or table, etc. It is not enough to
make text bigger or a different colour. Search engines don't recognise
size and colour as indicating importance, only the tags. Presentation is
controlled by CSS, normally contained in a stylesheet file which is read
by the browser as it loads a page.
Using a stylesheet is essential for virtually any site as many pages on
a site will rarely change while others are updated often. Over the
years, without a stylesheet, you'll find yourself building the pages in
subtly different ways. Without a stylesheet even monir changes to the
colour scheme or fonts used on a site of more than a handful of pages
becomes a nightmare to edit. If your site lasts more than a five years,
it will begin to look dated and need an update. Start with a stylesheet
and you'll thankful in a couple of years time.
You do not need any detailed knowledge of the commands and syntax of
these languages to use BlueGriffon. It does it all for you, but to make
rapid progress with the program (or any other web development tool) you
do need an appreciation of what it takes to build a web site. It is very
different to either word processing (essentially, text formatting for
print) or DTP (page design for print). Unlike those tasks, in web design
you have no control over the final document. It stays in electronic
format until the visitor arrives and then it depends entirely on the
device and the software being used as to how it will appear or sound to him.
I'll not respond further here as I don't believe such discussion welcome
but await your arrival at:
http://wysifauthoring.informe.com/forum/
where you will find others like me happy to help further.
Greg
Daniel Glazman
Jun 15, 2016, 12:10:44 PM6/15/16
to blueg...@googlegroups.com
On 15/06/2016 13:24, Top Geek wrote:
> Thanks for answering Greg. Sorry for the triple post. It was not till
> the third one that I noticed the brief flash pop-up at the bottom of the
> screen, saying that my post would only appear after verification.
> I had searched for a BG Forum and was referred here. I did not realise
> that this Google Group is as esoteric as BG itself. If only WYSIWYG was
> a true description of the product.
> I also bought and searched the User Manual but found nothing about
> changing font size. Very frustrating! So, to use this WYSIWYG product
> you first have to learn HTML and CSS. Great!
Absolutely. And it's so true it's even mentioned here:
> Thanks for answering Greg. Sorry for the triple post. It was not till
> the third one that I noticed the brief flash pop-up at the bottom of the
> screen, saying that my post would only appear after verification.
> I had searched for a BG Forum and was referred here. I did not realise
> that this Google Group is as esoteric as BG itself. If only WYSIWYG was
> a true description of the product.
> I also bought and searched the User Manual but found nothing about
> changing font size. Very frustrating! So, to use this WYSIWYG product
> you first have to learn HTML and CSS. Great!
http://bluegriffon.org/#manual
A tutorial about HTML and CSS is a matter of ~800 pages given all
what BlueGriffon can do there....
BlueGriffon is not a Word Processor where the format does not matter.
It *is* an HTML+CSS editor. You need to know at least the basics of
HTML and CSS to use BlueGriffon.
Speaking on how to apply a font size to an element, did you read
section 10.1 "The span element" inside section 10 "Format your
content"?
</Daniel>
TopGeek
Jun 15, 2016, 2:31:27 PM6/15/16
to bluegriffon
Sorry if I seem a bit disappointed with BlueGriffon but I am a former user of FrontPage, which was not perfect but did at least allow non-technical users to create very professional-looking web sites on a true WYSIWYG basis.
I am a retired technical translator and I have created several multi-page web sites, using FP. I am also familiar with the production of very large documents for mass publication. I am quite accustomed to going into 'source view' and making modifications to HTML, because that was the 'safest' way to achieve a modification. I have only been using BG for a couple of weeks and, if I stay with it, no doubt I will make progress as I gradually learn how to achieve my objectives.
I have just been frustrated by the difficulty of modifying font size in BG, because it seems such a fundamental process to be able to select a block of text, click on 'font' and choose the style and size in one place. I know I am not alone in this respect as I have found many others making the same comment. Yes, I did read section 10.1 in the manual but it still does not provide the sort of simplicity normally found in a word processor.
The reason for starting this thread has now been resolved. I found that the stylesheet was located in the depths of the 'Themes' folder. My FTP program (FTP Commander) had not uploaded the contents of that folder and I had to upload it selectively.
I am a retired technical translator and I have created several multi-page web sites, using FP. I am also familiar with the production of very large documents for mass publication. I am quite accustomed to going into 'source view' and making modifications to HTML, because that was the 'safest' way to achieve a modification. I have only been using BG for a couple of weeks and, if I stay with it, no doubt I will make progress as I gradually learn how to achieve my objectives.
I have just been frustrated by the difficulty of modifying font size in BG, because it seems such a fundamental process to be able to select a block of text, click on 'font' and choose the style and size in one place. I know I am not alone in this respect as I have found many others making the same comment. Yes, I did read section 10.1 in the manual but it still does not provide the sort of simplicity normally found in a word processor.
The reason for starting this thread has now been resolved. I found that the stylesheet was located in the depths of the 'Themes' folder. My FTP program (FTP Commander) had not uploaded the contents of that folder and I had to upload it selectively.
Alex Paton
Aug 25, 2016, 8:12:35 AM8/25/16
to bluegriffon
TopGeek
As always, Daniel and Greg have done a great job of explaining why it is important to know at least a bit about CSS/HTML in order to be able to use a WYSIWYG editor such as BlueGriffon. I was also once a FrontPage user, briefly. As I remember, it produced some of the most bloated code that I have ever seen, which was almost incomprehensible to read. Unfortunately, the effect of this was (and is) that Google, and all the other search engines, also have problems reading the actual text on the page. The code which BlueGriffon produces is so clean, that someone with no HTML coding knowledge could still manage to read the text, as can Google and the rest.
Apart from the above cleanness of code, whenever anyone asks me why they should use stylesheets and learn CSS, I point them to the marvelous CSS Zen Garden website, http://www.csszengarden.com. By clicking on any of the links on the site, the stylesheet is replaced, and the entire appearance is changed; it is at times a visual feast.
Please bear in mind, that CSS is probably the easiest part of web design to get your head around, and usually the easiest to problem solve when it goes wrong:
Just remember to:
Alex
As always, Daniel and Greg have done a great job of explaining why it is important to know at least a bit about CSS/HTML in order to be able to use a WYSIWYG editor such as BlueGriffon. I was also once a FrontPage user, briefly. As I remember, it produced some of the most bloated code that I have ever seen, which was almost incomprehensible to read. Unfortunately, the effect of this was (and is) that Google, and all the other search engines, also have problems reading the actual text on the page. The code which BlueGriffon produces is so clean, that someone with no HTML coding knowledge could still manage to read the text, as can Google and the rest.
Apart from the above cleanness of code, whenever anyone asks me why they should use stylesheets and learn CSS, I point them to the marvelous CSS Zen Garden website, http://www.csszengarden.com. By clicking on any of the links on the site, the stylesheet is replaced, and the entire appearance is changed; it is at times a visual feast.
Please bear in mind, that CSS is probably the easiest part of web design to get your head around, and usually the easiest to problem solve when it goes wrong:
Just remember to:
- end every line with a ; (semi-colon)
- surround with curly brackets { }
- don't forget that there is always a : (colon) between the element and the setting).
Alex
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