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CICS/TS for VSE Support of DOS/VS RPG II
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indust...@winwholesale.com
Dec 11, 2019, 5:34:37 PM12/11/19
to
I saw that CICS/VSE supported DOS/VS RPG II and apparently
CICS/TS for VSE still supports it. We do have DOS/VSE RPG II but,
so far, have only used it for batch. (We've got at least one old-timer
that refuses to give up on it and move to COBOL.) But I've wondered...
Has anybody on this list actually used DOS/VSE RPG II in CICS up
to this point? If so, does it work well? ...just curious...
Sincerely,
Dave Clark
--
Winsupply Group Services
3110 Kettering Boulevard
Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA
(937) 294-5331
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Sincerely,
Dave Clark
--
Winsupply Group Services
3110 Kettering Boulevard
Dayton, Ohio 45439 USA
(937) 294-5331
*********************************************************************************************
This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission.
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Jim Elliott
Dec 11, 2019, 6:30:40 PM12/11/19
to
Dave:
That is a "blast from the past". I did some CICS application programming with DOS/VS RPG II, but it was several decades ago now. If memory serves, it worked pretty well. The problem will be finding any documentation. The CICS/VS Application Programmer's Reference for RPG II, SC33-0085 long pre-dates the availability of PDFs and is not available online anywhere that I can find. With z/VSE V6 the necessary PTFs to run with CICS/TS V2 are included in the RPG code in the optional products tape. Library 59 includes the RPGINST and RPGSAMPL members to get you started with RPG on CICS.
Jim Elliott
Senior IT Consultant - GlassHouse Systems Inc.*********************************************************************************************_______________________________________________
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Julian Wall
Dec 11, 2019, 9:09:53 PM12/11/19
to
Years ago the installation I was at the time converted from a System
3/15D which ran a online monitor called CCP Communications Control
Program and the application programs were written in SYS3 RPGII which
nearly mirrored DOS RPGII, We converted to a 4331 Group 1 when they
first came out and rewrote our online Progs using DMS on the 4331. It
turned out to be a dog, we did write some apps using RPG CICS and they
were not reentrable and didnt perfor well. We found a product call CPG
marketed by a company call Altergo out of Germany. The application
programs were written in RPG like code but much more powerful. You then
ran these programs thru a translator that created Assembler code and it
all worked very well. There are installations still using CPG in the US.
Julian Wall
Jim Elliott wrote:
Julian Wall
Jim Elliott wrote:
Allan Peterson
Dec 11, 2019, 9:54:38 PM12/11/19
to
I created RPGII (no CICS) on a 360/30 whilst our System 3/10 was being built in the early 1970's.
I then sent to 80 col cards up to IBM in Auckland and they got read down stairs and got punched out on a Sys/3/10 upstairs once the System3 arrived in NZ. Also had COBOL. Later when we had ordered the 3/15D we used a 3/12 to copy the data to a 5445! and we shipped that to IBM in Melbourne, where we visited and did some testing , and, retesting just make sure the tests were correct as the speed just blew us away. I was then able to start playing with CCP. Unfortunately the company collapsed and I moved on (I have removed the hell that was the Retail Store that previous was on the 3/12 and went to 4331 from my memoirs), and eventually found my self at the Insurance company and had to learn VSAM, got COBOL installed as well as DMS and boy did we grind that into the dust and was saved by COBOL exits. and over the following years many processor upgrades a technical redundancy (HDS buyout) and finally retiring just after my 69th birthday earlier this year.
Allan
I then sent to 80 col cards up to IBM in Auckland and they got read down stairs and got punched out on a Sys/3/10 upstairs once the System3 arrived in NZ. Also had COBOL. Later when we had ordered the 3/15D we used a 3/12 to copy the data to a 5445! and we shipped that to IBM in Melbourne, where we visited and did some testing , and, retesting just make sure the tests were correct as the speed just blew us away. I was then able to start playing with CCP. Unfortunately the company collapsed and I moved on (I have removed the hell that was the Retail Store that previous was on the 3/12 and went to 4331 from my memoirs), and eventually found my self at the Insurance company and had to learn VSAM, got COBOL installed as well as DMS and boy did we grind that into the dust and was saved by COBOL exits. and over the following years many processor upgrades a technical redundancy (HDS buyout) and finally retiring just after my 69th birthday earlier this year.
Allan
Mick Poil
Dec 12, 2019, 2:43:39 AM12/12/19
to
Not using RPG under TS is the best idea from the very little that I recall. I think that Martin will remember better than me, but it could be that you end up with a copy in storage for each use. I am sure that it’s use is documented somewhere. I haven’t seen any PMRs from it being used.
Mike
Martin Truebner
Dec 12, 2019, 4:49:05 AM12/12/19
to
Since Mick pulled me in....
Story is this:
It does run on CICS/TS for sure and I know that one of the users of
that code does read this list. A.S. please stand up and speak
The code was developed (*1) in Australia (Perth) by Garry Hassler and
it initially covered only the "getting the code to run" but did not
cover the part of "release the copy that is not used anymore" --- This
led to SOS conditions, if RPG pgms were used in numbers(*1) higher that
your DSA can accommodate.
At A.S.es site we had the choice to go back to previous CICS (with
support of RPG) or find a solution..... since we had a hard time
initially to convince the supplier of CICS/TS, that it is their fault, I
wrote code that used a TRUE to release the unused storage at task-end.
In the meantime(a week) CICS/TS was recycled every lunch.
Eventually a PTF to fix the problem did show up (one and a half year
after the initial manifestation of the problem).
Note to Dave- if you really want to give that oldtimer a chance
(I would not):
--- No new RPG program was developed in CICS/TS only existing pgms were
used.
--- the link-procedure was special.
--- there is no support from anyone for the path you are going.
Good luck
Martin
(*1) I heard rumors that the support for RPG was for an
outsourcing customer of IBM in Hamburg. They had way too many RPG-pgms
in use and no one that was able to oversee the applications.
Rumors but reliable sources and my own information
(customer-name;outsourcinge;RPG) does match.
(*2) I used the word "numbers" not "frequencies because every (!)
use of a pgm left a piece of storage unused and never freed.
--
Martin Trübner; everything around "PoOps of z/arch"
Teichstraße 39E
D-63225 Langen
F: +49 6103 71254
M: +49 171 850 7132
E: mar...@pi-sysprog.de
Story is this:
It does run on CICS/TS for sure and I know that one of the users of
that code does read this list. A.S. please stand up and speak
The code was developed (*1) in Australia (Perth) by Garry Hassler and
it initially covered only the "getting the code to run" but did not
cover the part of "release the copy that is not used anymore" --- This
led to SOS conditions, if RPG pgms were used in numbers(*1) higher that
your DSA can accommodate.
At A.S.es site we had the choice to go back to previous CICS (with
support of RPG) or find a solution..... since we had a hard time
initially to convince the supplier of CICS/TS, that it is their fault, I
wrote code that used a TRUE to release the unused storage at task-end.
In the meantime(a week) CICS/TS was recycled every lunch.
Eventually a PTF to fix the problem did show up (one and a half year
after the initial manifestation of the problem).
Note to Dave- if you really want to give that oldtimer a chance
(I would not):
--- No new RPG program was developed in CICS/TS only existing pgms were
used.
--- the link-procedure was special.
--- there is no support from anyone for the path you are going.
Good luck
Martin
(*1) I heard rumors that the support for RPG was for an
outsourcing customer of IBM in Hamburg. They had way too many RPG-pgms
in use and no one that was able to oversee the applications.
Rumors but reliable sources and my own information
(customer-name;outsourcinge;RPG) does match.
(*2) I used the word "numbers" not "frequencies because every (!)
use of a pgm left a piece of storage unused and never freed.
--
Martin Trübner; everything around "PoOps of z/arch"
Teichstraße 39E
D-63225 Langen
F: +49 6103 71254
M: +49 171 850 7132
E: mar...@pi-sysprog.de
an...@aje826.net
Dec 12, 2019, 9:34:36 AM12/12/19
to
A place I worked at was 99% RPG. I don’t blame the guy for not wanting COBOL. I hate it. We had MRP II (Big MRP) that was all RPG II. I had to write one COBOL program to use IBM’s drawing software to draw some stencils on a shipping document. Some huge RPG programs in CICS. Really long story here.
That said, I would not recommend RPG for CICS – unless they’re properly written CICS programs. IBM did everything they could to keep people from using RPG in CICS. Some of our programs were 140K, which the CICS program loader loaded 1 K at a time. It’s not reentrant so you have to TCLASS all the transactions to make room for other programs. If 5 of us are running the same program, there are 5 full copies loaded in the partition. Before we got 31 bit addressing, I spent a lot of time tuning the system to run this stuff. I don’t think they ever made RPG 31 bit so it’s still probably tough.
We’re talking RPG II (real RPG). I never saw the faux RPGs (III and IV).
My current employer is 100% Natural (for the moment). But we’re moving to 100% package on Windows…..
indust...@winwholesale.com
Dec 12, 2019, 10:59:06 AM12/12/19
to
Thanks
for the responses. I think I've heard enough to not let DOS/VS RPG
II get its foot in the door with CICS. ;-)
Tony Thigpen
Dec 12, 2019, 11:25:50 AM12/12/19
to
If it's a real fight, the use of CPG II instead of RPG II would be the
direction I would go. I supported it in a previous shop and it works
well. The pre-processor converts them to assembler with proper storage
management, etc. There is also CPG III and CPG IV, which use the same
basic process, but adds a lot of features such as more cobol like
statements, and some web stuff, but we did not use it.
I found the CPG people in Germany a good set of folks to work with.
Tony Thigpen
indust...@winwholesale.com wrote on 12/12/19 10:58 AM:
direction I would go. I supported it in a previous shop and it works
well. The pre-processor converts them to assembler with proper storage
management, etc. There is also CPG III and CPG IV, which use the same
basic process, but adds a lot of features such as more cobol like
statements, and some web stuff, but we did not use it.
I found the CPG people in Germany a good set of folks to work with.
Tony Thigpen
indust...@winwholesale.com wrote on 12/12/19 10:58 AM:
Mick Poil
Dec 12, 2019, 11:28:08 AM12/12/19
to
The CICS program loader itself does not actually load them 1K at a time, it uses a VSE LOAD DE=VSE in CICS/VSE, or an OS/390 LOAD in TS.
How VSE does the physical load is another matter. I got one customer to use a VDISK for (batch) programs that were nMB in size - 140K is a tiddler ;-)
Mike
Julian Wall
Dec 12, 2019, 11:49:02 AM12/12/19
to
We found that the Sys3/15D with CCP would blow the doors off the
4331-group 1 and CICS. We had to immediately order a upgrade to a
group-2 when it became available and more memory.
The CPGII product is a RPG and ALC programmers dream as you can break out into ALC code in the calculation section of the program. I support a shop thats all RPGII batch and CPG and ALC under CICS TS with no COBOL on the machine.
Julian
The CPGII product is a RPG and ALC programmers dream as you can break out into ALC code in the calculation section of the program. I support a shop thats all RPGII batch and CPG and ALC under CICS TS with no COBOL on the machine.
Julian
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