FYI: The next Live Virtual class has been scheduled: November 10, 2015: Solution concepts to integrate z/VSE data and applications with your IT

[ifra...@googlemail.com]

Hi all,

the next Live Virtual class has been scheduled:

Title: Solution concepts to integrate z/VSE data and applications with your IT

Since more than a decade the z/VSE Connectors are integral part of the z/VSE Operating System. z/VSE Connectors enable the access of z/VSE data and applications from remote or even synchronization of z/VSE VSAM data with remote databases. This session will show the concepts how you can design flexible solutions to access and integrate the different z/VSE data and applications from remote platforms, from the Web or from a Mobile App.

Speaker: Wilhelm Mild, IBM

Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2015

Time: US & Europe: 11:00 AM New York, 04:00 PM London, 05:00 PM Boeblingen, 16:00 UTC
Or: Europe & AP: 05:00 PM Japan, 08:00 UTC, 03:00 AM New York, 08:00 AM London, 09:00 AM Boeblingen

Duration: 60 Minutes

Please register at
http://ibm.com/zvse/education/#upcoming

Kind regards,
Ingo Franzki, IBM

[ifra...@googlemail.com]

Hi all,

just a reminder, the next Live Virtual class has been scheduled for next week:

[fum00A]

Very unfortunate presentation. I think after viewing this presentation my company will finally "bite the bullet" and convert off of VSE.

[Martin Truebner]

Hello FUM00A

>> Very unfortunate presentation. I think after viewing this
>> presentation my company will finally "bite the bullet" and
>> convert off of VSE.

would you care to elaborate a little more?

--
Martin

Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE
more at http://www.picapcpu.de

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[Kevin Corkery]

Martin ...

The postings of FUM00A (note the very anonymous nature of both the name and
the e-mail address) seem to be a deliberate troll of VSE-L. There's never
really a question or contribution, just abject negativity about VSE.

... Kevin

[william janulin via VSE-L]

Was the presentation recorded? I did not have an opportunity to view it.

[Mick Poil]

All LVCs are recorded, and the PDF and recording should appear some days later.

http://www.vm.ibm.com/education/lvc/index.html

Mike

[Harry Wahl]

You couldn't be more wrong.

FUM00A put his name on his e-mail address. It is Lou Winston.

He was the other z/VSE systems programmer at Kroger. And now that Bob Botsis has died, he is the only z/VSE Systems programmer at Kroger. His constant battle to keep z/VSE at Kroger, one of the larger z/VSE users, if not the largest, has taken a big hit with BB's passing.

Lou's long term, but unfortunately unsuccessful efforts to cajole IBM to give z/VSE it's due, which was backed by Kroger's huge financial contribution to z/VSE and IBM, hurts not only him, but the entire z/VSE community...big time.

Lou has been a major part of z/VSE since day one, far longer than BB. Lou has been aggressively lobbying IBM about the importance of z/VSE to IBM's overall business for many years. Certainly a Quixotic task of monumental hope and questionable practicality anchored in his love of the operating system that has been his professional life.

Just because one does not frequently participate in this list does not make one a "deliberate troll of VSE-L" when they do finally dip their toe in the waters of VSE-L. It is difficult to gauge such things, but in certain important respects, Lou may have done more, especially with Kroger's huge checkbook standing behind him, for z/VSE's longevity than every active participant on this list combined.

Lou giving up on z/VSE will certainly have very real and large financial consequences for IBM.


Lou literally sat to the right of Bob Botsis for many, many years, working on the same systems and problems. They grew very close as frenemies,  coming to know each other in a way that only many years and growing old together makes possible.

Bob Botsis death to Lou was not just a casual, polite RIP mention. It was not abstract or distant. It was not even just a death...it was years of watching a man deeply intertwined with his life suffer horribly and hopelessly, never complaining. Well not complaining about suffering and dying, but certainly complaining, as always, about everything else.

They say each man dies twice. The first time when his heart stops beating and then again, much later, when the last man who truly knew him in life finally dies. Bob Botsis will not be truly dead while Lou, and I'm sure many others, still live.


So forgive Lou if he isn't quite himself and dares to vent his very real and personal loss in a way you personally find objectionable. He has just lost his z/VSE companion.

Harry J. Wahl

[fum00A]

Sure.. there are no significant enhancements to basic VSE facilities. We are stuck with an architecture that is at least 25 years old. Frankly that won't get the job done for my company.
It's obvious that IBM is putting all its R&D work in LINUX, not VSE. The decision makers at my company will not invest in setting up another platform when we already of z/OS, AIX and others. Rather than adding another operating system with its hardware, software and support requirements they will convert from VSE to either AIX or z/OS.
So from my company's perspective, all the investment that IBM has made in VSE connectors etc. is completely wasted.

[fum00A]

Kevin, obviously you are not very thorough in your searches. Indeed I HAVE posted questions and suggestions in this list. I hope your work product is better than the research you made in posting the above observations.
As to contributing something, let me suggest that my critique of the less than satisfactory level of support that IBM is providing to its VSE customer base may be more valuable than the fawning sycophantic contributions of many on this list.

[Jeffrey Barnard]

Lou,

There are other solutions out there than using the z/VSE Connectors. The
Connectors are great but it is only one solution and it does have
limitations. Other solutions from various vendors might meet your needs
very well. Being a TCP/IP vendor, several come to mind.

IBM can not and does not provide every bell and whistle no matter which OS
you decide to use.

Regards
Jeff

[Martin Truebner]

Hello Lou,

(I did not get that the stuff in front of the domain was your first
and last name- sorry)

I have not seen/"participate in the LVC" and i can only
guess why you criticised it. Hence I asked.

Here is my point (and it is not about the presenter - it is the subject)

They made stuff that is incompatible to the stuff on the z/OS side----

Given the information that Harry gave us: Yes Sire, that would be my
major point working for Kroger (and it has always been my point towards
IBM (and i have the advantage that i speak the same language).

--
Martin

Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE
more at http://www.picapcpu.de

[fum00A]

First a point of disagreement (sort of). Yes "IBM does not provide every bell and whistle..." nobody expects (or even wants) IBM to provide bells and whistles. Personally we would be happy to just provide the same facilities today that they provided 5 years ago (MQ, Connect Direct). But beyond that, my company needs an operating system that has progressed beyond the 1990's. We need something with impeccable availability characteristics; one that provides world class security capabilities and one that allows new programmers to easily and quickly become productive.

Now for the point of agreement... yes, third party vendors have always been vital to VSE and will continue to be. The problem is for various reasons, most third party vendors that write software for z/OS are not interested in doing so for VSE. And too, if the underlying operating system is not stable I don't care what third party products are available; the weak link remains with the operating system.

[Tony Thigpen]

Lou,

First, could you please post to VSE-L in text format. Your HTML formated
email is coming though with a bunch of "=20" characters embedded. VSE=L
is a 'text format only' listserv.

Now to one of your points:
> ... I don't care what third party products are available;

> the weak link remains with the operating system.

The real week link is the user base. To be blunt, many of the VSE user
base are just down-right cheap. They don't want to spend any money on
third-party software. They expect it to be 'free' in the operating system.

Just about any vendor product on z/OS goes for 3 to 4 times the price
than the same software on a z/VSE box. In some cases, it's 10 times the
price. Vendors can't survive on such prices so most vendors will not
touch VSE. There have been several attempts in recent years where
vendors have created new products for z/VSE but had only one or two
sales. So they quit the market.

Just about any z/OS shop will spend as much or more on third party
software as they do on their IBM operating software. (Excluding a
database and related software.) It appears that most VSE customers spend
about just 1/4 of their IBM costs on third-party software.

Vendors go where the money is, and it's not in z/VSE vendor product
development.

Tony Thigpen

fum00A wrote on 11/13/2015 10:06 PM:
>
> First a point of disagreement (sort of). Yes "IBM does not provide every be=
> ll and whistle..." nobody expects (or even wants) IBM to provide bells and =
> whistles. Personally we would be happy to just provide the same facilities =
> today that they provided 5 years ago (MQ, Connect Direct). But beyond that,=
> my company needs an operating system that has progressed beyond the 1990's=
> . We need something with impeccable availability characteristics; one that =
> provides world class security capabilities and one that allows new programm=

> ers to easily and quickly become productive.
>

> Now for the point of agreement... yes, third party vendors have always been=
> vital to VSE and will continue to be. The problem is for various reasons, =
> most third party vendors that write software for z/OS are not interested in=
> doing so for VSE. And too, if the underlying operating system is not stabl=
> e I don't care what third party products are available; the weak link remai=
> ns with the operating system.=20

[fum00A]

Tony Et Al,

First I don't pretend to have the solution for VSE. My goal in starting this discussion is to raise the concept that VSE has a problem. And as we all know the first step in solving a problem is to admit that one exists.

It has been my experience that we, as IBM customers, too often do not challenge the direction that IBM has set for us even though it may not be in the best interest of our employers.

[Ken and Mary Meyer]

You mentioned stability. Could you please elaborate?

To Tony's point, vendors are not just finding difficulty
surviving existing in the z/VSE environment, but also the
z/OS as well. Way back in the early 90's I was part of a
project to try and make it easier to control mainframe
systems in a manner similar to that of other platforms, but
it never really caught on. CA after they took over LEGENT
tried to control all platforms using Unicenter TNG, but
that also was not well received. Later a few vendors
including us were looking into making it easier to develop,
maintain, and test software for the mainframe, using
tools like Eclipse and other off platform tools. This
also failed to connect with customers. After spending
considerable development dollars to convince customers
to stay on the platform, and perhaps add a few, it gets
to the point of insufficient returns to continue. It
is very likely IBM is having the same issues. It basically
gets to the point vendors modify their software to include
support for existence on the new release, with very little
exploitation of new features until it becomes necessary,
or crazy developers find some spare time and do a bit of
experimenting. ;)

The connectors have been around quite a while, but are in
their infancy compared to various attempts by OEM vendors
to convince/entice customers to just play with the neat
stuff being developed, much less pay for it. There were
a few people, like Bob (RIP), that spent time to learn
about and experiment with new features and/or products.
That is where the fun and satisfaction is for enthusiastic
developers.

Ken

[Deetjen, Jean-Max]

Lou,

I want to express my 2 cents in this discussions, as far as I'm concerned my belief is that VSE, especially since 4.3.1, has been a very stable OS. I do Agree with you and are also disappointed with the fact that they have dropped support for CONNECT DIRECT. Your experience does not equate to everyone else's. I'm in a shop[p currently where we run between 5 to 9 mil transactions on a daily basis, and the system has been solid and stable. My previous had not IPLed in 18 months. Maybe your shop is ready for Z/OS, but do tell your management to be ready WITH THEIR CHECK BOOK.

Jean-Max Deetjen

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[fum00A]

I am happy that you have good reliability characteristics with VSE and to be honest we have had a big improvement in VSE availability as well. My issue is, it is not up to the world class standards set by every other platform and I feel not to the requirements posed by the growing company I work for.

You no doubt read in this list about the FED hard wait caused by issuing a FREEVIS. What would happen in your shop if that were to happen?

Also, you mention that you have not had to IPL in 18 months? Does your location not observe daylight saving time? We had to IPL to implement standard time.

[Kevin Corkery]

Lou ...

I'm sorry that I may have offended you, but I did research back in my
archive (and Google groups) and there have been several recent postings that
appeared to elicit a negative response from others in the community.
Judging by some of the other responses to this thread it would appear that
this was your intent and you're certainly qualified to have your opinions
and I suspect many out there agree with you to some degree. The way you
responded to the LVC could have been framed to elicit a discussion rather
than an out and out dismissal of it all as useless. I get where you're
coming from as to the connectors, but frankly, did you really expect to hear
something different. I think it's been pretty clear for a long time what
the "PIE" strategy is and its limitations. I see very little from IBM that
would indicate that coexistence of z/VSE with z/OS is a major concern,
either you're going to the big-OS or you're going somewhere else; the VSE
customer base is for the most part treading water, as pointed out by Tony
and Ken. Anyway, I apologize for any slight you may have felt and encourage
the discussion of ongoing viability of z/VSE from a user, vendor, and IBM
perspective.


Kevin P Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey

[van Sleeuwen, Berry]

You can change the timezone dynamically with the SET ZONE command. You need to define the timezones in the IPL procedure.

Met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Berry van Sleeuwen

-----Original Message-----
From: VSE-L [mailto:vse-l-bounces+berry.vansleeuwen=atos...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of fum00A
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 1:53 PM
To: vs...@lehigh.edu
Subject: Re: FYI: The next Live Virtual class has been scheduled: November 10,

Also, you mention that you have not had to IPL in 18 months? Does your loca= tion not observe daylight saving time? We had to IPL to implement standard = time.

_______________________________________________
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VS...@lists.lehigh.edu
https://lists.lehigh.edu/mailman/listinfo/vse-l

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[fum00A]

The SET ZONE doesn't work for all jobs - Connect:Direct did not change its time neither FAQS; so while most batch jobs ran with the correct time zone, our FAQS console showed the incorrect time.

[Rich Smrcina]

Existing jobs would run with the old time. New jobs picked up the new time. CICS has a way to pick up the new time via CEMT.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:26 PM, fum00A <lewi...@live.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 10:05:06 AM UTC-5, van Sleeuwen, Berry wrot=
e:
> You can change the timezone dynamically with the SET ZONE command. You ne=

ed to define the timezones in the IPL procedure.

>=20
> Met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards/Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen,
> Berry van Sleeuwen
>=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: VSE-L [mailto:vse-l-bounces+berry.vansleeuwen=3Dato...@lists.lehi=
gh.edu] On Behalf Of fum00A
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 1:53 PM
> To: vs...@lehigh.edu

> Subject: Re: FYI: The next Live Virtual class has been scheduled: Novembe=
r 10,
>=20
> Also, you mention that you have not had to IPL in 18 months? Does your lo=
ca=3D tion not observe daylight saving time? We had to IPL to implement sta=
ndard =3D time.
>=20

> _______________________________________________
> VSE-L mailing list
> VS...@lists.lehigh.edu
> https://lists.lehigh.edu/mailman/listinfo/vse-l

> This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended sole=
ly for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail=
 in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its inte=
grity cannot be secured on the Internet, Atos' liability cannot be triggere=
d for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a com=
puter virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmissio=
n is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any v=
irus transmitted. On all offers and agreements under which Atos Nederland B=
.V. supplies goods and/or services of whatever nature, the Terms of Deliver=
y from Atos Nederland B.V. exclusively apply. The Terms of Delivery shall b=

e promptly submitted to you on your request.
> _______________________________________________
> VSE-L mailing list
> VS...@lists.lehigh.edu
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The SET ZONE doesn't work for all jobs - Connect:Direct did not change its =
time neither FAQS; so while most batch jobs ran with the correct time zone,=

 our FAQS console showed the incorrect time.

_______________________________________________
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--

Rich Smrcina

[van Sleeuwen, Berry]

True. We have the same. Just restart the FAQSVMX job and then the time displays correctly. BTW, it's just cosmetic. FAQS itself does have the correct time, it just doesn't display it correctly. (FAQS/PCS does see the correct time and schedules as expected.)

I can't remember how it was with CD. I don't know for sure if we ever used anything related with time in our CD jobs. I have researched the timezone change back in 2004 and found that we had nothing that would be affected by dynamic time changes.

Met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Berry van Sleeuwen

-----Original Message-----
From: VSE-L [mailto:vse-l-bounces+berry.vansleeuwen=atos...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of fum00A
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 12:26 AM
To: vs...@lehigh.edu
Subject: Re: FYI: The next Live Virtual class has been scheduled: November 10,

The SET ZONE doesn't work for all jobs - Connect:Direct did not change its = time neither FAQS; so while most batch jobs ran with the correct time zone,= our FAQS console showed the incorrect time.

[fum00A]

On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 11:01:46 AM UTC-4, ifra...@googlemail.com wrote:

For those who may be interested and can code assembler, the time zone can be set for active jobs by browsing each partition COMREG and setting the JOBZON field to the new job zone. This could resolve the problem with long running jobs not resetting time.
I can furnish more details to anyone interested.

[Frank M. Ramaekers]

I think the main problem is when we "fall back" and subsystems that
don't use UTC/GMT to store information would have overlap times. Items
that come to mine are log and journaling datasets.

Frank M. Ramaekers Jr.

-----Original Message-----
From: VSE-L
[mailto:vse-l-bounces+framaekers=ailif...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf
Of fum00A
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 11:34 AM
To: vs...@lehigh.edu

Subject: Re: FYI: The next Live Virtual class has been scheduled:
November 10,

On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 11:01:46 AM UTC-4, ifra...@googlemail.com

wr=
ote:
> Hi all,=20
>=20
> the next Live Virtual class has been scheduled:=20
>=20

> Title: Solution concepts to integrate z/VSE data and applications with

>yo=
ur IT=20
>=20

> Since more than a decade the z/VSE Connectors are integral part of the

>z/=

VSE Operating System. z/VSE Connectors enable the access of z/VSE data

and = applications from remote or even synchronization of z/VSE VSAM
data with re= mote databases. This session will show the concepts how
you can design flex= ible solutions to access and integrate the
different z/VSE data and applica= tions from remote platforms, from the

Web or from a Mobile App.

>=20
> Speaker: Wilhelm Mild, IBM
>=20

> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2015

>=20

> Time: US & Europe: 11:00 AM New York, 04:00 PM London, 05:00 PM

>Boeblinge=

n, 16:00 UTC
> Or: Europe & AP: 05:00 PM Japan, 08:00 UTC, 03:00 AM New York, 08:00

> AM L=
ondon, 09:00 AM Boeblingen
>=20
> Duration: 60 Minutes=20
>=20
> Please register at=20
> http://ibm.com/zvse/education/#upcoming=20
>=20
> Kind regards,=20

> Ingo Franzki, IBM

For those who may be interested and can code assembler, the time zone

can b= e set for active jobs by browsing each partition COMREG and
setting the JOB= ZON field to the new job zone. This could resolve the
problem with long run= ning jobs not resetting time.=20 I can furnish

more details to anyone interested.

[Ken and Mary Meyer]

That is not advisable! You could royally screw up an application or
even potentially
create an infinite loop in a partition by doing that.

Ken


snip..