Fwd: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Mark Regan]

https://www.zdnet.com/article/developers-say-googles-go-is-most-sought-after-programming-language-of-2020

or

*https://tinyurl.com/yaduy3gn* <https://tinyurl.com/yaduy3gn>

Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR

*CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
*Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.t.regan
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan
Maranatha! <><

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[Bill Seubert]

Relatedly:
https://developer.ibm.com/mainframe/2020/04/24/ibm-intends-to-enable-go-on-z-os/

(I know there's a port on Git, but it's pretty old)

Bill Seubert
Lead Architect, IBM Z NA Technical Sales

[Frank Swarbrick]

https://developer.ibm.com/mainframe/2020/04/24/ibm-intends-to-enable-go-on-z-os/
IBM intends to enable Go on z/OS - Mainframe DEV<https://developer.ibm.com/mainframe/2020/04/24/ibm-intends-to-enable-go-on-z-os/>
IBM intends to enable a full native Go (or Golang) compiler on z/OS. IBM intends to enable a native Go (or Golang) compiler on z/OS, further strengthening its portfolio of compiler technologies and partnership with the open source community.
developer.ibm.com


________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of Mark Regan <markt...@GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:05 AM
To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Fwd: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Wayne Bickerdike]

Nearly as good as YAL (Yet Another Language).

Well I downloaded, ran some code. Yawn. What's an old guy to do?

Last three "needed now" jobs were, COBOL, Assembler and PL/I.

go West!

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:10 PM Frank Swarbrick <frank.s...@outlook.com>
wrote:

--
Wayne V. Bickerdike

[David Crayford]

The more modern languages supported on z/OS the better. Otherwise it
will just be viewed as a legacy platform and will slowly wither on vine.
You may find it
uninteresting but if we want to attract young people to the platform
it's going to need something a little bit more contemporary then COBOL,
HLASM and PL/1.

We're interested in Golang as important analytics stacks like
Prometheus/Grafana are written in the language. Not to mentioned Docker
and Hyperledger!

[Jack J. Woehr]

On 5/9/20 1:58 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
> Nearly as good as YAL (Yet Another Language).
>
> Well I downloaded, ran some code. Yawn. What's an old guy to do?

Don't underestimate Golang. It's an amazing language.

It's like the genetically groomed offspring of C++ and Java with the
best traits of both and the warts removed.

Rob Pike, and Ken Thompson were on the design team. One of those "If we
had known then what we know now" moments for the fathers of C.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

[Charles Mills]

+1

Everyone here who likes the general idea of a C++ type of language (HLASM and PL/I zealots need not apply!) but dislikes some or many of the specifics of C++ should check out Go. (The name of the language, as I understand it, is Go. Unfortunately the word Go is pretty heavily overloaded, which tends to make people call the language by the unambiguous name Golang. Golang.org is the Web site.) It is a compiled language, unlike Python.

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jack J. Woehr
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:54 AM
To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

On 5/9/20 1:58 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
> Nearly as good as YAL (Yet Another Language).
>
> Well I downloaded, ran some code. Yawn. What's an old guy to do?

Don't underestimate Golang. It's an amazing language.

It's like the genetically groomed offspring of C++ and Java with the
best traits of both and the warts removed.

Rob Pike, and Ken Thompson were on the design team. One of those "If we
had known then what we know now" moments for the fathers of C.

[scott Ford]

Charles,

I heard Go was supposed to be a good language to learn. Interestingly, I
read an article saying Python will take over from Java. Personally, I
learned Python liked it over java. I have to look at Go.

Scott

--
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

[Steve Smith]

I actually love HLASM, PL/I, and older versions of C++. C++ was a leader
in OO programming, but imho, it's gotten so stupefyingly complicated that
it's may not be humanly possible to write decent programs with it. Go
sounds like a pretty good reset, but at this point, I only know what I've
read about it.

It's name however, is horrible. Goo, Goog, or even G would have obviated
much ambiguity. As it is, they may be stuck with Golang being the common
name.

sas

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:44 PM Charles Mills <char...@mcn.org> wrote:

> +1
>
> Everyone here who likes the general idea of a C++ type of language (HLASM
> and PL/I zealots need not apply!) but dislikes some or many of the
> specifics of C++ should check out Go. (The name of the language, as I
> understand it, is Go. Unfortunately the word Go is pretty heavily
> overloaded, which tends to make people call the language by the unambiguous
> name Golang. Golang.org is the Web site.) It is a compiled language, unlike
> Python.
>
> Charles
>
>

[scott Ford]

Steve,

I also rather enjoyed HLASM and PL/1. I am self-taught in several
programming languages, so learned C kinda on the fly, but really liked it.
I liked the structured macros in HLASM also. Makes life easier.

Scott

--
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

[Jack J. Woehr]

On 5/9/20 12:00 PM, scott Ford wrote:
> Charles,
>
> I heard Go was supposed to be a good language to learn. Interestingly, I
> read an article saying Python will take over from Java. Personally, I
> learned Python liked it over java. I have to look at Go.

Python is a wonderful language both for routine scripting (it's
conquering IBM i at the moment) and for scientific computing (see IBM
Qiskit for IBM Quantum Computing).

Go is a compiled systems language which is as powerful and efficient as
C/C++ while much more easy than C or Java to write and build your
applications.

Go is the only serious competition in the wide world for Node.js for
authoring microservices.

The New York Times web is built entirely on Go-coded microservices.
Attended when the project leaders spoke at Denver Gophers on the subject.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

[Charles Mills]

+1 on the name.

I read an article on branding once that said if consumers can mess up your name, they will, so be aware of that when you pick a name. The East Bay Municipal Utility District (EBMUD) is universally known in the SF Bay Area as "East Bay Mud."

Goo, with its nod to "++", Google and "object oriented" would have been a great name, had they had a sense of humor.

G would be good, with its homage to C and its predecessor B.

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:02 AM
To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

I actually love HLASM, PL/I, and older versions of C++. C++ was a leader
in OO programming, but imho, it's gotten so stupefyingly complicated that
it's may not be humanly possible to write decent programs with it. Go
sounds like a pretty good reset, but at this point, I only know what I've
read about it.

It's name however, is horrible. Goo, Goog, or even G would have obviated
much ambiguity. As it is, they may be stuck with Golang being the common
name.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 9 May 2020 11:44:42 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>+1 on the name.
>
>I read an article on branding once that said if consumers can mess up your name, they will, so be aware of that when you pick a name. The East Bay Municipal Utility District (EBMUD) is universally known in the SF Bay Area as "East Bay Mud."
>
>Goo, with its nod to "++", Google and "object oriented" would have been a great name, had they had a sense of humor.
>
>G would be good, with its homage to C and its predecessor B.
>

But they're terrible search keys unless your command syntax
supports a mixture of whole-word and substring keys. I know
of none that do.

-- gil

[scott Ford]

Jack,

Personally, I think *sometimes people write in what they know. If they know
C it’s C or if they know JavaScript , it’s JavaScript. I know companies
aren’t paying for education, which I feel ultimately hurts them in a lot of
ways. I learned C and experimented on Z/OS and liked its abilities in
threading etc. I know Charles enjoys C ++ , I think that’s great , haven’t
per se learned it yet.

Scott

--
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

[Charles Mills]

Not sure what you mean. I just searched Google on G and got good hits: letter, subway line, some Korean pop thing. Ditto Goo, the gummy liquid and the Goo Goo Dolls.

Charles


-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 12:51 PM
To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

On Sat, 9 May 2020 11:44:42 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>+1 on the name.
>
>I read an article on branding once that said if consumers can mess up your name, they will, so be aware of that when you pick a name. The East Bay Municipal Utility District (EBMUD) is universally known in the SF Bay Area as "East Bay Mud."
>
>Goo, with its nod to "++", Google and "object oriented" would have been a great name, had they had a sense of humor.
>
>G would be good, with its homage to C and its predecessor B.
>
But they're terrible search keys unless your command syntax
supports a mixture of whole-word and substring keys. I know
of none that do.

[Mark Regan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(programming_language)

Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR

*CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
*Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.t.regan
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan
Maranatha! <><

[Jack J. Woehr]

On 5/9/20 1:59 PM, scott Ford wrote:
> Personally, I think *sometimes people write in what they know.

It's good to get outside your zone sometimes. If you decide to do so,
both Python and Go are good choices!

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

[scott Ford]

Jack,

Oh yes, I agree, I had a friend say that GO and Python were great to learn,
I am open minded..

Scott

--
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

[Ed Jaffe]

On 5/9/2020 2:12 PM, scott Ford wrote:
> Oh yes, I agree, I had a friend say that GO and Python were great to learn,
> I am open minded..

Python is available on z/OS. Can Go availability be far behind?


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/


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[Alan Young]

There is a port but it is a couple of years old.

https://github.com/zos-go/go


IBM has a recent post about it coming to zOS.

https://developer.ibm.com/mainframe/2020/04/24/ibm-intends-to-enable-go-on-z-os/

________________________________
From: Ed Jaffe <edj...@PHOENIXSOFTWARE.COM>
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 14:58

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[scott Ford]

Very cool

--
Scott Ford
IDMWORKS
z/OS Development

[Seymour J Metz]

Sometimes people write in what their employer knows. I once had to process SMF data in COBOL because the president of the company didn't like PL/I.

Given a free hand, I use the best tool for the job. I like PL/I and REXX a lot more than Perl, but I use Perl when I need, e.g., packages from CPAN.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of scott Ford [idfl...@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:59 PM

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Wayne Bickerdike]

I wonder where it leaves the code/platform conversion tools.

We're evaluating RFIs for ADABAS/Natural and CA-GEN and I expect there's a
bunch of others coming along.

The great CASE tool IEW, James Martin evangalisation of the 90's seems to
have hit the buffers.

There are conversions for these, however, mainly to Jave, C# or COBOL. Sure
it's cool, however, I expect that Google have selfish motives for this.

The words of a recruiter echo in my mind from 1990. "Wayne, if you don't
have CASE, you are unemployable".

We should do the predictions for the next 10 years. I'm still waiting for
my flying car. Maybe the "Enter Go" Statement in COBOL would be a start.

--
Wayne V. Bickerdike

[Seymour J Metz]

"search engine": See "race to the bottom".

Remember that you are not the customer, you are the product. What I wouldn't give for a DWIS search engine that supported regexen!

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [0000000433f0781...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:51 PM

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[David Crayford]

Go is not a replacement for C++. It’s a GC language which makes it completely unsuitable for deterministic programming domains. Rust is the C++ replacement with RAII and memory ownership baked in.

[Wayne Bickerdike]

Not sure how it works under the covers but my "hello, world" test took
forever to run first time through.

--
Wayne V. Bickerdike

[Seymour J Metz]

IMHO the real deficiencies in C++ are what it inherited from C.

As to the name Go, my only objection is that there was already a Go! language.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Steve Smith [sas...@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:02 PM

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Seymour J Metz]

Perl compiles into an internal form and may not be the best choice for truly trivial scripts; if I needed a Hello World command I'd write it in PL/I or REXX. but when you're parsing an e-mail, parsing each URL, looking up each domain name and doing miscellaneous sanity checks, the start-up time for the compiler and interpreter is just noise, and I really wouldn't want to do it in HLASM, PL/I or REXX. For trivial scripts I use REXX or bash.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Wayne Bickerdike [way...@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:50 PM

[Seymour J Metz]

Good language to learn? Unless you have some way to predict the vagaries of fashion, pick languages that suit the tasks you want to deal with and that are available on your platforms. Don't choose or rule out Go based on its current or predicted popularity.

Python certainly has a lot of eyeballs, although I'm still seeing calls for PHP, which I had thought would be dead by now. Python and Ruby have respectable libraries of packages.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of scott Ford [idfl...@GMAIL.COM]

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:00 PM

[Seymour J Metz]

> C++ type of language

I have no idea what that means

Warts inherited from C?
Object Oriented?
The same object model as C++?
The same STL as C++?

> HLASM and PL/I zealots need not apply!

Why? Are you prejudiced against us? Many of us are just as open to new languages as people who don't like HLASM and PL/I, and far more open than some of those.

The name is too close to "Go!", which was there first, but the name still is Go, not golang. Golang.org is only the domain name.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Charles Mills [char...@MCN.ORG]
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:44 PM

[Seymour J Metz]

While I certainly like HLASM and PL/I, I am always interested in new languages. Try it, you might like it.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Wayne Bickerdike [way...@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 AM

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

Nearly as good as YAL (Yet Another Language).

Well I downloaded, ran some code. Yawn. What's an old guy to do?

Last three "needed now" jobs were, COBOL, Assembler and PL/I.

go West!

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:10 PM Frank Swarbrick <frank.s...@outlook.com>
wrote:

>
> https://developer.ibm.com/mainframe/2020/04/24/ibm-intends-to-enable-go-on-z-os/
> IBM intends to enable Go on z/OS - Mainframe DEV<
> https://developer.ibm.com/mainframe/2020/04/24/ibm-intends-to-enable-go-on-z-os/
> >
> IBM intends to enable a full native Go (or Golang) compiler on z/OS. IBM
> intends to enable a native Go (or Golang) compiler on z/OS, further
> strengthening its portfolio of compiler technologies and partnership with
> the open source community.
> developer.ibm.com

>
>
> ________________________________
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf

> of Mark Regan <markt...@GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:05 AM
> To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> Subject: Fwd: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after'
> programming language of 2020
>
>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1vQ5cS2aiWvlX9-3VwRbW35kbK4m7zq0E7rrb3T2mK94ncRxJYasKUguYmBuaiXvXUpFXR6YbiG6nT2A2lQsqg7t4SMlJ_0iWqjDYRum-9dFjpTatoah4tr-37Vyh8SxMKsKMewEipd7yyzGeFpCcKK8ILo7s1kbRipgoOTjNdC4yR0pzf2xI92xZTfubOEfTSE0VCAIiICzyt9ka_ZmVKRCsvUGBmmTBMUEVx4lPTjuF82C6ZF5U_6l-jQN5x7XMhK-34AuJX5YidWJXrjBji9dLNsOT18DmpxkxKJ8Dhtf4prwEi9i_ACV7YymnbqbJRCAYFK8nOl-uUt5PQQzWldMC2VhbJdB6WuEqqBSOWQ1dqNanoelDh0e0N0_twJIvILORxEmrht-SYg1WfBYASoEjssSD240SFCzSkCwnfY2DrX_wiWb92hwps_Ay9D7E/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdnet.com%2Farticle%2Fdevelopers-say-googles-go-is-most-sought-after-programming-language-of-2020
>
> or
>
> *https://secure-web.cisco.com/1vHpWJ9bbAZbdlWLuyeygAt2sL0ffVvf72uBUhwakQlV8vSTzNuXIR0zbgfKKSNarAMHmYPC_Y96RvyNTy9NOjF-YFsAPqr-SbRnH-najjEjsWQNZ33-USrC-1-QsI37kOUgt-OxZt1duUm31mpwT9-0f45pSJunbDzkAkahxYsa4fUEd8A8WCiIaVSABKZl0U2nL97KHsJtobKze1DOm1sKFdkaqE3WrVsrwSrlv0oitKJMTQhdUYQhxes06SXsbYB7EUN0-qHJPzsUBcPg83aT6lZC4y_Ej0xeb4UAQrD55rbKiDHBGP9BvK5wxegOtwC9hBOp1xMFtZj8DvPbxfm-V5p1_PPtoQ8j0cA2pBIC15wiQZYi7FbCFHD8IwmhHgLm1FWeMwEu-WiWdVaz-0QmbAFwW1pjMoeHaSxJG4wSiCYZtUNntvM_t0lFEHan-sbUMbOSNXwXnz_ELh4fNGw/https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fyaduy3gn%2A <https://secure-web.cisco.com/1746ykqeZQQtfRikKAhHrHInf0_wS9Mrph8ujbKcqfY2oqXY7CyDJ6PnV8INV46ljKbaS-h_V7guaMkjGlOaYLQ4Kg2_vlZjvgJuwJvlCpizpVFOu0wudF8k3yK5Y8EalWVDaOiuiLLXMFitO7jf1dBQqMrifkahNI8PWblU2_R_XS4CUNKCKPs5NBt3l5VmiFc9-tI1hvj2_e3lhbBio6gtgnTL4dkESKx-AclQfc9ezZA0tIWxqbWTyYsBuomsTFIy6XZRNeqtiO3kZfwlco_aSIsOqdn_8-AnWuGk4z8bKT20k71hGAFbfHttoY5TrMicAK6MvUYDQqItU3K7oJ57LqXR89aI__nBKY4uqsCIuY6C5GVLkGUh48aVlmTMjjM4e9EgeeVPq_NfN_42LONRIV25bkj!
n_GuUT_68B01UCHYcfg48A-MTUQtyMRDqgEPwr6yTycfn4pOpRU3LvJQ/https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fyaduy3gn>

>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan, K8MTR
>
> *CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
> *Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.t.regan
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan
> Maranatha! <><
>

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--
Wayne V. Bickerdike

[Timothy Sipples]

Shmuel Metz wrote:
>Now if they could just bring z/OS support for Kotlin, Lua,
>Perl, Raku, Ruby and Rust up to date ...
>Yes, bringing the port up to date includes first porting it ;-)

Let's take these in order....

1. As far as I know, as long as you use the Kotlin compiler to target a
Java Runtime Environment (JRE) -- the typical/usual pattern -- your
program will (also) run on z/OS. The basic command line compiler syntax is
as follows, assuming Kotlin source code in the file hello.kt:

kotlinc hello.kt -include-runtime -d hello.jar
java -jar hello.jar

There's also a potential future path that'll support Kotlin's LLVM target
(since z/OS now supports LLVM), but that's speculative.

2. There's a z/OS build of Lua available here:

http://lua4z.com

This is a circa 2014 build of Lua. Fundi Software created, maintains, and
supports this distribution, so if you'd like something newer then feel
free to inquire.

3. Rocket Software offers Perl for z/OS here (currently 5.24.0, which was
released on May 8, 2016):

https://www.rocketsoftware.com/zos-open-source

4. For Raku, go grab the Rakudo distribution and target a JVM
(--target=jar). Or use Rakudo.js to target Node.js (JavaScript) since
Node.js is available for z/OS:

https://www.ibm.com/products/sdk-nodejs-compiler-zos

To my knowledge there's no difficulty with either path.

5. JRuby is available:

https://www.jruby.org

The best implementation of Ruby for z/OS is probably currently the Docker
container image that runs in the z/OS Container Extensions:

https://hub.docker.com/_/ruby

6. Rust will need LLVM, now available on z/OS. However, you can already
compile and run Rust code via the z/OS Container Extensions.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sip...@sg.ibm.com

[Seymour J Metz]

The problem is that some of those are incomplete, not z/OS, or not up to date. I'd like to see z/OS positioned to use the full range of current implementations of popular languages and interpreters, e.g., MoarVM, Qobe. What I'd really like is for IBM et al to work with CPAN et al to get z/OS changes into the official code bases. Running in a container is certainly useful, but addresses a different problem.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Timothy Sipples [sip...@SG.IBM.COM]
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:42 PM

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

Shmuel Metz wrote:
>Now if they could just bring z/OS support for Kotlin, Lua,
>Perl, Raku, Ruby and Rust up to date ...
>Yes, bringing the port up to date includes first porting it ;-)

Let's take these in order....

1. As far as I know, as long as you use the Kotlin compiler to target a
Java Runtime Environment (JRE) -- the typical/usual pattern -- your
program will (also) run on z/OS. The basic command line compiler syntax is
as follows, assuming Kotlin source code in the file hello.kt:

kotlinc hello.kt -include-runtime -d hello.jar
java -jar hello.jar

There's also a potential future path that'll support Kotlin's LLVM target
(since z/OS now supports LLVM), but that's speculative.

2. There's a z/OS build of Lua available here:

http://secure-web.cisco.com/1nKNP4GyvVRODUkXu1ywIAoH4u7BdSjxSdtc9G7Wxk2MvWkEN9j0Oy-x-8l3-rQnmy1X1w39ORA6BC8MWoP1jX3BWYSyeXJvhCMD5w99Alza7MY2o4jR0B30n9uTrG8esQlkZaofUgwa_ETYgm65yhdpDvq4gvRdnBzmmRo3KK9zCdVCfDNojjmpBXbT5AkSfdQip-rt7HjxDpyRX_XcINCtGpW3YeH4V9p-O1ReDBAGy6iPTLHs4gtuYxiHqdrmpu5kYEdwHPZA4j8u2ctJ6N5lgsZIVoFyx4_pm0o-KEOV1SK9mtqooNKydOi5NFzOKHdEzZ9wh7fCD8xh1qCGgzazC3yya21X6nDwLWXcmwEXx8yAbZ8ISI9qqfq_vfdeTbH0umh9YtgXMvr8xNxqHgdTHqSOwtNxLlqibyLCubxx3w2ZRNL-o1oxXPn695zap/http%3A%2F%2Flua4z.com

This is a circa 2014 build of Lua. Fundi Software created, maintains, and
supports this distribution, so if you'd like something newer then feel
free to inquire.

3. Rocket Software offers Perl for z/OS here (currently 5.24.0, which was
released on May 8, 2016):

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1alV14CozZPvgagoYhec5SZzxxXLY2QZW5Lh-LpUivj4Jo1Yq5pgL0CPhr2fdPSW5aEZJbt1QJYO8mF5VhTj2twyVeUn7SGtZ57viHj9fgJ_YsvpB-0FGX9flIi7tZNfOWX3ZcS3Z7W0xftx5OnRjpDj0jH1_LgYm-J5SCl7SPflDaPxV8FhhCTZB6zcnft4CvPu98JGTIE8_pc7Q2JwoI-URXN_Y7SSEssXlWQaXDA6q6ufqoFoIfZupV9PMGax0_VlYph5v55BUjmwacxKxfzzDUNErIRE234SCGK1AkqiNANQU3-aKZH69wwD2sJU4Pipx-HyZcKjoiNXr3XlvpQVulsA0FaLlOxmB993elgcNjvw-OPUxdSiR2M0WxPjUzhliP8cXRpXtqT64zFcqoAmwdh8JlgVN5hdV9-7xNAqGq0MJ6YiNY4YXMTKd3O7EIYQjNRtVE9ilXXblLYA7fw/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rocketsoftware.com%2Fzos-open-source

4. For Raku, go grab the Rakudo distribution and target a JVM
(--target=jar). Or use Rakudo.js to target Node.js (JavaScript) since
Node.js is available for z/OS:

https://www.ibm.com/products/sdk-nodejs-compiler-zos

To my knowledge there's no difficulty with either path.

5. JRuby is available:

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1_uMq3GLJ9HTGBlszWMSuyLJrFJw7L9oeYIJA-3of5gQzsfySNu6IgZvmoj4zQtpA9lI2PGp3gi37A0pcV_-akxGAtvM7PPvmhQaqI_HrU1F03gQZVn35JHKRfhbKi_akuMCHKl6Jxw0XTe5h_A8r_Yf4sJD7K_tifTzN0Wcd1oALF_Ulqx7eFUpt1QydCRax91Si77W-nrrfiCQCtHg1xIUOB4uuAsqT9R3a5uwlgxgIGMaAUHzdv4ZRNKZjHpw1Cq5lmWNznGvBkzF2kmDGzL4BrUDhQaZn8JLU3EiiHQpdipBeG5ZYp037SdHI34BSSZJKAAggOFiZg2I7-YzuxoBAdQbgos8gDrHFgcIRT3eZrCaAKWY6rB9UxqQ-KP9rb48Z_sbz6vv73PKDfCvySGgaZ2mOYe2xCzX7SfHNvWdj86FRFJbr83pY3-d_3q20LVdf4cpThZgRwCSBhTyCYg/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jruby.org

The best implementation of Ruby for z/OS is probably currently the Docker
container image that runs in the z/OS Container Extensions:

https://secure-web.cisco.com/183dflPtktXM2fwPPw_eirxf06lcUK0v_jn8pu39cKPKdfWNrFJXD3y_qQia_gjA1OlKuSGjQw07N1njqjr0y0w5EjkVpYZkdgcOaWwlsrvrIXKuP6mxFCq-yjuJf93g9B-gj1bWRZFS_8H0E93go7cFPI893PGM8BCid_gJIeHE-T4icFYbAVav4ldhfnYw4l9VsHjT3ktOKdR6c0eMG-AOCvbkDDKzlKsgJRtUtO1pkSucSK-u2OWSR2f8Wy4RSZiwTR5ATSmZdZxiSVElFJoUpyzzfV_aL1ptFI2o-pb4lZT4Jh1rLFC2xBVuN46hYBuLTTm7OiW2G3bMkPvBFEJhJ84UQLMwPlIHxdA4aGoOXyXRbMITyVdgjuupQCn_OI5pkEUyah5k1PI5WawbD9tA8H_Le3789K7VQHINq48UyoaaS9zn8nmZTeAfxuF8qEtCvP8UhkBeuLiL9595M0w/https%3A%2F%2Fhub.docker.com%2F_%2Fruby

[Timothy Sipples]

Shmuel Metz wrote:
>The problem is that some of those are incomplete, not z/OS,
>or not up to date.

1. Would you like to be more specific? (And I don't know what you mean by
"not z/OS." I answered specifically, exclusively for z/OS.)

2. Have you tried fixing the specific issues?

[Seymour J Metz]

For example, the current Perl is 5.30, not 5.24.

Not z/OS in the same sense that Solaris in a virtual machine is not z/VM; the code that z/OS runs in a container is Linux code. I'd like the more common languages available in a form interoperable with at least batch, TSO and OMVS applications. I also want them in Linux for Z, but that may already be here.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Timothy Sipples [sip...@SG.IBM.COM]

Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 12:55 AM

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

[Jack J. Woehr]

On 5/12/20 9:28 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I also want them in Linux for Z, but that may already be here.

z/Linux has pretty much everything. Did some heavy lifting there. What
wasn't there I could build, with some work.

Essence of Open Source: You are part of the solution.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

[Jack J. Woehr]

On 5/12/20 9:28 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

> I also want them in Linux for Z, but that may already be here.

You do know that you can get a free LPAR for 90 days and explore what's
there and what's not yourself, right?

https://developer.ibm.com/components/ibm-linuxone/gettingstarted/

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

[Mike Schwab]

https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/elizabeth-k-joseph1/2020/05/12/linuxone-open-source-report-april-2020

--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

[Seymour J Metz]

No oorexx, or even Regina?

Although I was impressed to see Erlang there; I hadn't expected that.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a...@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 9:46 PM

To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' programming language of 2020

https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/elizabeth-k-joseph1/2020/05/12/linuxone-open-source-report-april-2020

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 7:33 PM Jack J. Woehr <j...@well.com> wrote:
>
> On 5/12/20 9:28 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> > I also want them in Linux for Z, but that may already be here.
>
> You do know that you can get a free LPAR for 90 days and explore what's
> there and what's not yourself, right?
>
> https://developer.ibm.com/components/ibm-linuxone/gettingstarted/
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of

> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1BjXeamASb4arcahwb3X_bVQ0vg1zkKqkXE2Oawiu7QyDd6iR_0C2aB4tWakA75ldQOc_-3Ael5XrPYgifkeBQdvLE156ILmfzx3x0a7nn0WS2R6ikyg9WpbNA52LzSpNh7kf893lNSmOoa31e_I__klhz6vFhUmPJ0McdRbYlOEdhrXgiKxpIlHtegcB6jQt6Y7dgHu72u7SzJhAI8swIWpFD6V4G3ja-XrejXb_OF8YoPRDYavvDYt1CMyn0PwApJdFMGwPWm6xbezBcGx87BN0DRKzNGPYuZLY3FXgRk22jOWEkKwVYo6NTnDUgcDEyBqikrhhhto-NuBWKbqHez4HUQGrasMTslvTyNW4bsTiknTTE1WN3nuGTBeg4WcnNcZTpw2QmE-3e9VfKs8OcRzekVhMn4X3S_Bu0yke2swLArizUOYDSL74MOuPo2XK/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.well.com%2F%7Ejax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Q-yRLyiAm0nZ_A3qvYIii8As2kFRFiHYe5ZnN2lSVirZFSOCIZ0Qad3Q-c1PayY6ESNk1QEhlOggOkTO16wK3-dlwX_a28oAa1uZcSROAyh_5xXDh1VoriGNW9YbaUQY1nWobHGKw1kdnK0Np5Coo_L5PTCtrhU1r_Tl9PDg3UQKx8-TseREo3-nxn4jo92b5b_D_nQc6e4XXwPE0KOztmkfGw3CfEpfPyHSuEHeJN3Z9ge56FVl3nU53HvqEvznOB9VIx-GjCHdw3lImkrmlaDYq-Mss5-3YRtBRmt8yNT6y451lq88omM6EznwpYrjmlApFTKjgj3RTH7aStbiawyVEjbaa0hwfQXPkdAA6jl9CMoc6WUfsnKKSGdVLnTFHizlDP0iCOjlJNsfXz907uPOqwrZeQJmvJfF6SwRMjFuhjbS0C0G7PORWsohfvCY/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan