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Re: Give me your tired, your poor....

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lida anestidou

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Aug 1, 2004, 8:30:01 PM8/1/04

--- george kast <gka...@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

>
> Dev eivai kai toso eykolo va efarmostei o
> vomos. Sto
> Te3as, 3ereis, yparxoyv idiwtes poy bgaivoyv
> bitzilavtes,
> me aloga kai karampives kai kavoyve peripolo.
> Elpizw va
> se andiazei ayto.

mpa, 8a h8ele na mporouse na kanei kai autos to idio.
Eidika kati allo8rhskous mpam kai e3w, kati
skouroxrwmous sto do3a patri, kati tourkalbanous
par'tous katw...
>
> Isws givotav av ypnrxe vomos gia proswrivo
> asylo, me
> syvoptikn diadikasia, avti gia matain kai avefiktn
> aystnrotnta.

giauto egrapsa oti auta pou sumbainoun sthn ellada den
einai oute monadika oute anikousta. sumbainoun kai eis
parisious (fantazomai oti mexri kai h kouzina tou
crillon e3uphreteitai apo allodapous paranomous), h
Sofia polu swsta periegrapse ta londrezika. Auto pou
me enoxlei pio poly ap'ola einai oti oso oloi autoi
kanoun tis douleies pou snomparei to euwdiasto xeraki
ths elenitsas kai o kwlarakos tou dhmhtrakh, tote de
diamartyretai kaneis; fthna ergatika, de plhrwnei sto
kratos kaneis tipote, gemizei h tseph omorfa kai
wraia. Ase pou tous exoume anagkh, 3ereis opws legame
gia tous germanous kai tous tourkous 10 xronia prin.
Molis omws autoi pou den exoun onoma kai proswpo,
pa8oun kati, tote striboume kleftika. Kammia
upeu8unothta kai pronoia les kai den prokeitai gia
an8rwpous para gia glastres. Kai meta einai
an8ellhnikh h trimpioun h oi taims pou ta 3eskepazoun.
Alla, mh zhtame monaxa apo tous polites eu8unes. To
idio to kratos mas loidwrei kai dinei to paradeigma
ths adiaforias kai ekmetaleushs, ase pou eimaste ston
idio ntorba me tous egglezous pou proteinan na
ftia3oun xwrous mazw3hs (3ereis a la Laurio) gia osous
zhtoun asulo se nhsia wste na mh tous blepoune oi
katoikoi ths megalhs nhsou kai na trwn mia klwtsia oso
to dunaton glhgorotera xwris fwnes kai fanfares...de
3erw poia einai h megaluterh ntroph.

=====
Lhda

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Sophia

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Aug 2, 2004, 6:30:02 AM8/2/04

lida anestidou wrote:
> me enoxlei pio poly ap'ola einai oti oso oloi autoi
> kanoun tis douleies pou snomparei to euwdiasto xeraki
> ths elenitsas kai o kwlarakos tou dhmhtrakh, tote de
> diamartyretai kaneis; fthna ergatika, de plhrwnei sto

Dev eivai kai toso sigouro auto. Pisteuw oti kapoia 0a n0elav va kavouv
tis douleies autes av oi suv0nkes ergasias ntav kales kai av oi mis0oi
ntav ikavopointikoi. Priv vomo0etn0ei to katwtato wromis0io sto UK
etairies opws n Macdonalds plnrwvav mexri duo lires tnv wra mikta,
ligotero ap'oso eva eisntnrio epistrofns me tn dnmosia sugkoivwvia. Twra
divouv ta vomima alla diatnrouv dikaiwmata opws p.x. va se kalesouv gia
douleia kai va se steilouv meta spiti sou ama dev exouv kivnsn gia va mn
se plnrwsouv tnv upoloipn mera. E, poios 0a paei va douleyei ekei, osn
avagkn kai va exei; Protimotero eivai va pairveis to epidoma avergias
(55 tn bdomada) kai va exeis xrovo va ya3eis gia kati kalutero. Kai kala
ta Macdonalds pou eivai bitriva kai mporei kapoios va mpei mesa kai va
dei poioi douleuouv, ta alla magazia pou dev blepeis poioi douleuouv;

Priv duo mnves p.x. pvignkav edw pera kamia eikosaria kivezoi paravomoi
pou mazeuav mudia se ektrofeio. Egive megalo 0ema fusika gia to oti ntav
apravomoi pou tous ekmetalleuovtav. MExri priv merika xrovia autes tis
douleies ekavav vtopioi. Oi opoioi douleuav me tis idies suv0nkes alla
plnrwvovtav ligo parapavw.

lida anestidou

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 9:30:04 AM8/2/04

thn exw up'opsin mou thn istoria twn cocklers....an
kai den mporesa na katalabw pws einai dunaton na
pnigoun an8rwpoi otan blepoun oti h palirroia
anebainei: den tous afhse o epiblepwn na fugoun?

oso gia t'alla, h macdonalds kai to ka8e doulomagazo
prosferei autous tous mis8ous ean to kratos afhnei
tous ergazomenous tou aprostateytous. Sthn EU uparxei
katwteros mis8os, koinwnikes paroxes klp. Ena apo ta
megalutera dikaiwmata tou eyrwpaiou ergazomenou einai
to dikaiwma ths apergias, etsi? dikaiwma pou fusika oi
paranomoi den exoun. Oute bebaiws tameio anergias...

=====
Lhda

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V. Farmaki

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 11:30:02 AM8/2/04

--=====================_8960174==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
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At 09:17 =EC=EC 1/8/2004, Phidias N. Bourlas wrote:
>lida anestidou wrote:
>>poly kala grafoun oi efhmerides gia tous paranomous
>>ergates: einai ntroph oxi pou uparxoun (dioti efugan
>>apo sun8hkes pou kaneis apo mas den dianoh8hke pote
>>tou), alla pou to kratos epitrepei thn asudwth
>>ekmetaleush tous apo tous ellhnarades dixws IKA, dixws
>>paroxes, dixws tipote.
>
>Ntropn eivai pou dev efarmozetai o vomos, kai o prwtos
>vomos pou parabiazetai eivai o vomos peri paravomou eisodou
>stnv xwra.
>Pw's 8a exei IKA kapoios o opoios brisketai paravomws edw,
>opote to kratos dev gvwrizei kav oti eivai edw, gia va tou
>dwsei IKA;!
>
>>PS. Alh8eia ta adespota telika ta e3ontwsane?
>>kataferane kai auth thn ahdia?
>
>Mallov oxi, kai dustuxws afnsave oxi movo ta adespota skulia,
>alla' kai tous adespotous zwofilous ave3elegktous. (Gi' autous
>dev uparxei mpogias; ) Prox8es kati zwofiloi mpoukarave kai
>kavave katalnyn se eva dnmarxeio, epeidn o dnmos 8a metefere
>kati skulia apo to kuvokomeio tou dnmou, to opoio dev
>eparkouse, se alln perioxn. (Kai oi zwofiloi upopteuovtav,
>xwris va exouv dikio opws faivetai, eu8avasia.) Oi ev Elladi
>zwofiloi, bebaiws, perimevouv tnv frovtida twv adespotwv apo
>to kratos` dev suvtnrouv oi idioi to kuvokomeio, oute ta pairvouv
>ta adespota spitia tous.
>
> F.M.

Thn eipes pali Phidia!
Thes egw h zwofilh na mazepsw ola ta adespota ths perioxhs?
Na tsakistoun oi Dhmoi na ta frontizoun.
Ta dhmotika telh ti ta plhrwnoume?
Gia na mhn katharizoun ta pezodromia?
Na mhn 3evoulwnoun tis voulwmenes sxares gia ta nera?
Na mhn symazevoun tis paidikes xares pou einai karmanioles gia ta paidia me
dyalymenes kounies kai spasmenes trampales?
na mhn kladevoun kai na mhn potizoun ta ligosta dendra afths ths=20
tsimentoupolhs?
Na kaigetai lampa dromou kai na tous khnygas?
Na pernoun ta skoupidia oti wra tous goustarei? kai na 3eshkwnetai to=20
sympan ap ton thoryvo?
Na mhnn plenoun tous kadous twn skoupidiwn?
ki an eixa ore3h tha epeftan mia arada apo anypar3ia yphresiwn!

Na kanoun loipon opws kanei o Dhmos Peramatos - malista parakalw sto Perama=
-
o opoios exei kanei ena protypo kentro gia adespota pou kerdise logw=20
teleiothtas
twn egkatastasewn tou kai xrhmatodothsh apo EE, me aftokinhto eidiko na=20
mazevei
ta talaipwrhmena kai arwsta zwa klp.klp.. Me anthrwpous eidikous pou ta=20
agapane
kai ta frontizoun! E3yphretei de kai tous Dhmous ths dytikhs Attikhs!
O prwtos dhmos ths elladas o dhmos ths Athhnas den exei kan 10
shmeia estw me neraki gia ta peristeria kai ta adespota zwa!
Nai se mia ellada pou ta zwa a3izoun mono otan prosferoun sklhres yphresies=
=20
kai meta ta
rixnoume stous gkremous 'h ta afhnoume demena sta vouna na pethanoun tragika
avohthhta (Krhth) as dwsei prwta to kratos thn kalh eikona kai to=
paradeigma.

veatrikh

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<html>
<body>
At 09:17 =EC=EC 1/8/2004, Phidias N. Bourlas wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">lida anestidou wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">poly kala grafoun oi efhmerid=
es
gia tous paranomous 
ergates: einai ntroph oxi pou uparxoun (dioti efugan 
apo sun8hkes pou kaneis apo mas den dianoh8hke pote 
tou), alla pou to kratos epitrepei thn asudwth 
ekmetaleush tous apo tous ellhnarades dixws IKA, dixws 
paroxes, dixws tipote.</blockquote> 
Ntropn eivai pou dev efarmozetai o vomos, kai o prwtos 
vomos pou parabiazetai eivai o vomos peri paravomou eisodou 
stnv xwra. 
Pw's 8a exei IKA kapoios o opoios brisketai paravomws edw, 
opote to kratos dev gvwrizei kav oti eivai edw, gia va tou 
dwsei IKA;! 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">PS. Alh8eia ta adespota telik=
a
ta e3ontwsane? 
kataferane kai auth thn ahdia?</blockquote> 
Mallov oxi, kai dustuxws afnsave oxi movo ta adespota skulia, 
alla' kai tous adespotous zwofilous ave3elegktous. (Gi' autous 
dev uparxei mpogias; ) Prox8es kati zwofiloi mpoukarave kai 
kavave katalnyn se eva dnmarxeio, epeidn o dnmos 8a metefere 
kati skulia apo to kuvokomeio tou dnmou, to opoio dev 
eparkouse, se alln perioxn. (Kai oi zwofiloi upopteuovtav, 
xwris va exouv dikio opws faivetai, eu8avasia.) Oi ev Elladi 
zwofiloi, bebaiws, perimevouv tnv frovtida twv adespotwv apo 
to kratos` dev suvtnrouv oi idioi to kuvokomeio, oute ta pairvouv 
ta adespota spitia tous. 
       F.M.</blockquote> 
Thn eipes pali Phidia! 
Thes egw h zwofilh na mazepsw ola ta adespota ths perioxhs? 
Na tsakistoun oi Dhmoi na ta frontizoun. 
Ta dhmotika telh ti ta plhrwnoume? 
Gia na mhn katharizoun ta pezodromia? 
Na mhn 3evoulwnoun tis voulwmenes sxares gia ta nera? 
Na mhn symazevoun tis paidikes xares pou einai karmanioles gia ta paidia
me 
dyalymenes kounies kai spasmenes trampales? 
na mhn kladevoun kai na mhn potizoun ta ligosta dendra afths ths
tsimentoupolhs? 
Na kaigetai lampa dromou kai na tous khnygas? 
Na pernoun ta skoupidia oti wra tous goustarei? kai na 3eshkwnetai to
sympan ap ton thoryvo? 
Na mhnn plenoun tous kadous twn skoupidiwn? 
ki an eixa ore3h tha epeftan mia arada apo anypar3ia yphresiwn!=20
 
Na kanoun loipon opws kanei o Dhmos Peramatos - malista parakalw sto
Perama - 
o opoios exei kanei ena protypo kentro gia adespota pou kerdise logw
teleiothtas 
twn egkatastasewn tou kai xrhmatodothsh apo EE, me aftokinhto eidiko na
mazevei 
ta talaipwrhmena kai arwsta zwa klp.klp.. Me anthrwpous eidikous pou ta
agapane 
kai ta frontizoun! E3yphretei de kai tous Dhmous ths dytikhs Attikhs!
 
O prwtos dhmos ths elladas o dhmos ths Athhnas den exei kan 10 
shmeia estw me neraki gia ta peristeria kai ta adespota zwa!  
Nai se mia ellada pou ta zwa a3izoun mono otan prosferoun sklhres
yphresies kai meta ta 
rixnoume stous gkremous 'h ta afhnoume demena sta vouna na pethanoun
tragika 
avohthhta (Krhth) as dwsei prwta to kratos thn kalh eikona kai to
paradeigma. 
veatrikh 
</body>
</html>

--=====================_8960174==.ALT--

Eleftherios Hazapis

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 12:30:01 PM8/2/04

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Veatrikh kai loipoi anagnwstes,=20

To mono sxolio pou exw se ola afta pou grafwnte gia thn katastash sto IKA=20
kai stous dhmous einai oti euxomai merika apo ta 3ena thleoptika synergeia =

pou 0a kalyptoun tous agwnes na mporesoun na 3efygoun ligo apo tis=20
perioxes "vitrina" kai na kalypsoun merika apo ta ka0hmerina problhmata=20
twn Ellhnwn mesa stis geitonies.=20

Oso gia to IKA kai ean asfalhzei allodapous auto einai to pio ligo otan=20
fantasteis oti xiliades para8eristes kai katoikoi twn nhsiwn mas den exoun =

prosbash se kamia boh0eia ean pa0oun kati kai briskonte sto eleos twn EKAB =

pou apergoun kai to poly poly na tous dw0oun farmaka se ena apo auta "ta=20
kentra ygeias". Otan den perh0alptoume tous dikous mas katoikous ti 0a=20
dwsoume stous xiliades 3enous ergates. Grhgora 0a ma0oun kai autoi oti se =

auth th xwra yparxoun poloi polites--Ellhnes kai 3enoi pou ta bgazoun eis=20
peras xwris ta stoixeiwdh mias politismenhs koinwnias.=20

Brwmikoi drwmoi, skoupidia pantou, elleipeis apoxeteush, adespota,=20
aka0arsies zwwn sta pezodromia, elleipsh symanshs, pezodromiwn, yperesiwn=20
gia atoma me eidhkes anangkes, kai h lista megalwnei....

Ase pou oi OA 0a stoixhsoun 12 dis Euro kai ti dw0hke apo auta gia na=20
lh0oun ta problhmata tou ka0hmerinou polith? Wraia einai h nea stash tou=20
metro h to tram alla kala den 0a htan kai h perioxh pou e3yperetei to=20
meson auto na einai epishs ka0arh?

Alla bebaia milame gia thn xwra pou sou 3erizwnoun ta louloudia ap'to khpo =

sou gia na ta baloun sto bazo tous h sou fernoun ta skoupidia tous sthn=20
eisodo sou gia na mhn lerwnei ta dika tous skalwpatia!

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Lefteris Hazapis

"V. Farmaki" <easyt...@HOL.GR>=20
Sent by: The Hellenic Discussion List <HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
08/02/2004 11:01 AM
Please respond to
"V. Farmaki" <easyt...@HOL.GR>

To
HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Give me your tired, your poor....

F.M.

Na tsakistoun oi Dhmoi na ta frontizoun.=20

Ta dhmotika telh ti ta plhrwnoume?

Gia na mhn katharizoun ta pezodromia?=20
Na mhn 3evoulwnoun tis voulwmenes sxares gia ta nera?=20
Na mhn symazevoun tis paidikes xares pou einai karmanioles gia ta paidia=20
me=20
dyalymenes kounies kai spasmenes trampales?=20

na mhn kladevoun kai na mhn potizoun ta ligosta dendra afths ths=20
tsimentoupolhs?
Na kaigetai lampa dromou kai na tous khnygas?
Na pernoun ta skoupidia oti wra tous goustarei? kai na 3eshkwnetai to=20
sympan ap ton thoryvo?
Na mhnn plenoun tous kadous twn skoupidiwn?

ki an eixa ore3h tha epeftan mia arada apo anypar3ia yphresiwn!=20

Na kanoun loipon opws kanei o Dhmos Peramatos - malista parakalw sto=20
Perama -=20

o opoios exei kanei ena protypo kentro gia adespota pou kerdise logw=20

teleiothtas=20

twn egkatastasewn tou kai xrhmatodothsh apo EE, me aftokinhto eidiko na=20

mazevei=20

ta talaipwrhmena kai arwsta zwa klp.klp.. Me anthrwpous eidikous pou ta=20

agapane=20
kai ta frontizoun! E3yphretei de kai tous Dhmous ths dytikhs Attikhs!=20
O prwtos dhmos ths elladas o dhmos ths Athhnas den exei kan 10=20
shmeia estw me neraki gia ta peristeria kai ta adespota zwa!=20
Nai se mia ellada pou ta zwa a3izoun mono otan prosferoun sklhres=20
yphresies kai meta ta=20
rixnoume stous gkremous 'h ta afhnoume demena sta vouna na pethanoun=20
tragika=20
avohthhta (Krhth) as dwsei prwta to kratos thn kalh eikona kai to=20
paradeigma.

veatrikh

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Veatrikh kai loipoi anagnwstes, </fo=
nt>
 
 To mono sxolio pou exw se ola afta p=
ou
grafwnte gia thn katastash sto IKA kai stous dhmous einai oti euxomai merika
apo ta 3ena thleoptika synergeia pou 0a kalyptoun tous agwnes na mporesoun
na 3efygoun ligo apo tis perioxes "vitrina" kai na kalypsoun
merika apo ta ka0hmerina problhmata twn Ellhnwn mesa stis geitonies.  =

 
 Oso gia to IKA kai ean asfalhzei all=
odapous
auto einai to pio ligo otan fantasteis oti xiliades para8eristes kai katoik=
oi
twn nhsiwn mas den exoun prosbash se kamia boh0eia ean pa0oun kati kai
briskonte sto eleos twn EKAB pou apergoun kai to poly poly na tous dw0oun
farmaka se ena apo auta "ta kentra ygeias".  Otan den perh0a=
lptoume
tous dikous mas katoikous ti 0a dwsoume stous xiliades 3enous ergates.
 Grhgora 0a ma0oun kai autoi oti se auth th xwra yparxoun poloi polite=
s--Ellhnes
kai 3enoi pou ta bgazoun eis peras xwris ta stoixeiwdh mias politismenhs
koinwnias.  
 
 Brwmikoi drwmoi, skoupidia pantou, e=
lleipeis
apoxeteush, adespota, aka0arsies zwwn sta pezodromia, elleipsh symanshs,
pezodromiwn, yperesiwn gia atoma me eidhkes anangkes, kai h lista megalwnei=
....
 
 Ase pou oi OA 0a stoixhsoun 12 dis E=
uro
kai ti dw0hke apo auta gia na lh0oun ta problhmata tou ka0hmerinou polith?
 Wraia einai h nea stash tou metro h to tram alla kala den 0a htan
kai h perioxh pou e3yperetei to meson auto na einai epishs ka0arh?
 
 Alla bebaia milame gia thn xwra pou
sou 3erizwnoun ta louloudia ap'to khpo sou gia na ta baloun sto bazo tous
h sou fernoun ta skoupidia tous sthn eisodo sou gia na mhn lerwnei ta dika
tous skalwpatia!
 
 =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F 
Lefteris Hazapis
 
 
 
 
 
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D40%>"V. Farmaki"
<easyt...@HOL.GR> 
 Sent by: The Hellenic Discussion &nb=
sp;List
<HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
08/02/2004 11:01 AM
<table border>
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<td bgcolor=3Dwhite>
<div align=3Dcenter>Please respond to 
"V. Farmaki" <easyt...@HOL.GR></div></table>
 
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<div align=3Dright>Subject</div>
<td>Re: Give me your tired, your poor...=
.</table>
 
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
 </table>
 
 
 At 09:17 =EC=EC 1/8/2004, Phidias N. Bourlas wrote:</fon=
t>
 lida anestidou wrote:
 poly kala grafoun oi efhmerides gia tous paranomous

ergates: einai ntroph oxi pou uparxoun (dioti efugan 
apo sun8hkes pou kaneis apo mas den dianoh8hke pote 
tou), alla pou to kratos epitrepei thn asudwth 
ekmetaleush tous apo tous ellhnarades dixws IKA, dixws

paroxes, dixws tipote.

Ntropn eivai pou dev efarmozetai o vomos, kai o prwtos 
vomos pou parabiazetai eivai o vomos peri paravomou eisodou 
stnv xwra. 
Pw's 8a exei IKA kapoios o opoios brisketai paravomws edw, 
opote to kratos dev gvwrizei kav oti eivai edw, gia va tou 
dwsei IKA;!

PS. Alh8eia ta adespota telika ta e3ontwsane? 
kataferane kai auth thn ahdia?

Mallov oxi, kai dustuxws afnsave oxi movo ta adespota skulia, 
alla' kai tous adespotous zwofilous ave3elegktous. (Gi' autous 
dev uparxei mpogias; ) Prox8es kati zwofiloi mpoukarave kai 
kavave katalnyn se eva dnmarxeio, epeidn o dnmos 8a metefere 
kati skulia apo to kuvokomeio tou dnmou, to opoio dev 
eparkouse, se alln perioxn. (Kai oi zwofiloi upopteuovtav, 
xwris va exouv dikio opws faivetai, eu8avasia.) Oi ev Elladi 
zwofiloi, bebaiws, perimevouv tnv frovtida twv adespotwv apo 
to kratos` dev suvtnrouv oi idioi to kuvokomeio, oute ta pairvouv 
ta adespota spitia tous.

F.M.

Thn eipes pali Phidia! 
Thes egw h zwofilh na mazepsw ola ta adespota ths perioxhs? 
Na tsakistoun oi Dhmoi na ta frontizoun. 
Ta dhmotika telh ti ta plhrwnoume? 
Gia na mhn katharizoun ta pezodromia? 
Na mhn 3evoulwnoun tis voulwmenes sxares gia ta nera? 
Na mhn symazevoun tis paidikes xares pou einai karmanioles gia ta paidia
me 
dyalymenes kounies kai spasmenes trampales?

na mhn kladevoun kai na mhn potizoun ta ligosta dendra afths ths tsimentoup=

olhs? 
Na kaigetai lampa dromou kai na tous khnygas? 
Na pernoun ta skoupidia oti wra tous goustarei? kai na 3eshkwnetai to sympan
ap ton thoryvo? 
Na mhnn plenoun tous kadous twn skoupidiwn?

ki an eixa ore3h tha epeftan mia arada apo anypar3ia yphresiwn!

Na kanoun loipon opws kanei o Dhmos Peramatos - malista parakalw sto Perama
-

o opoios exei kanei ena protypo kentro gia adespota pou kerdise logw teleio=
thtas

twn egkatastasewn tou kai xrhmatodothsh apo EE, me aftokinhto eidiko na
mazevei 
ta talaipwrhmena kai arwsta zwa klp.klp.. Me anthrwpous eidikous pou ta
agapane 
kai ta frontizoun! E3yphretei de kai tous Dhmous ths dytikhs Attikhs! 
O prwtos dhmos ths elladas o dhmos ths Athhnas den exei kan 10

shmeia estw me neraki gia ta peristeria kai ta adespota zwa!

Nai se mia ellada pou ta zwa a3izoun mono otan prosferoun sklhres yphresies
kai meta ta 
rixnoume stous gkremous 'h ta afhnoume demena sta vouna na pethanoun tragika

avohthhta (Krhth) as dwsei prwta to kratos thn kalh eikona kai to paradeigm=
a. 
 
veatrikh
 
--=_alternative 005901C085256EE4_=--

Phidias N. Bourlas

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 2:30:01 PM8/2/04

Ase tis rntoreies, Beatrikn.

Na mazeyei o Dnmos, les, ta adespota;
Ma eseis eiste pou ourliazete tosov kairo gia va _mnv_ ta mazeyei,
(alla' avti8etws va ta afnsei ave3elegkta va epiti8evtai stov
kosmo kai va diadidouv as8eveies)!!
Eseis oi "zwofiloi", pou dnmiourgeite kai to problnma eu8us
e3 arxns dnladn, paratwvtas ta zwa sas otav ta bare8eite
n' dev exete ti va kavete.
Ta zwa ta kakometaxeirizovtai, e3 orismou, autoi pou exouv zwa!

Ta peristeria dev vomizw oti exouv problnma sto Suvtagma, pavtws
(evw sto Lovdivo par8nke apofasn e3olo8reusews, kai opoios
taisei peristeri trwei agrio prostimo).

Kai gia tnv ka8ariotnta stous dromous, katse va arxisei tis
evedres n astuvomia kai va rixvei agria prostima kai epi topou
se opoiov peta3ei skoupidi (dioti alliws mualo dev mpaivei)`
alla' 8a arxisouv va milave oloi peri... dnmokratias!
Dev eivai oi odoka8aristes pou leipouv.

F.M.

V. Farmaki wrote:

> Ta dhmotika telh ti ta plhrwnoume?
> Gia na mhn katharizoun ta pezodromia?

> Na mhn 3evoulwnoun tis voulwmenes sxares gia ta nera?

> Na mhn symazevoun tis paidikes xares pou einai karmanioles gia ta paidia me

> dyalymenes kounies kai spasmenes trampales?

> na mhn kladevoun kai na mhn potizoun ta ligosta dendra afths ths

> tsimentoupolhs?
> Na kaigetai lampa dromou kai na tous khnygas?

> Na pernoun ta skoupidia oti wra tous goustarei? kai na 3eshkwnetai to
> sympan ap ton thoryvo?

> Na mhnn plenoun tous kadous twn skoupidiwn?
> ki an eixa ore3h tha epeftan mia arada apo anypar3ia yphresiwn!
>

> Na kanoun loipon opws kanei o Dhmos Peramatos - malista parakalw sto
> Perama -

> o opoios exei kanei ena protypo kentro gia adespota pou kerdise logw

> teleiothtas

> twn egkatastasewn tou kai xrhmatodothsh apo EE, me aftokinhto eidiko na
> mazevei

> ta talaipwrhmena kai arwsta zwa klp.klp.. Me anthrwpous eidikous pou ta
> agapane

> kai ta frontizoun! E3yphretei de kai tous Dhmous ths dytikhs Attikhs!

> O prwtos dhmos ths elladas o dhmos ths Athhnas den exei kan 10

> shmeia estw me neraki gia ta peristeria kai ta adespota zwa!

> Nai se mia ellada pou ta zwa a3izoun mono otan prosferoun sklhres
> yphresies kai meta ta

> rixnoume stous gkremous 'h ta afhnoume demena sta vouna na pethanoun
> tragika

> avohthhta (Krhth) as dwsei prwta to kratos thn kalh eikona kai to

> paradeigma.
>
> veatrikh

Sophia

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 3:30:02 PM8/2/04

lida anestidou wrote:
> tous ergazomenous tou aprostateytous. Sthn EU uparxei
> katwteros mis8os, koinwnikes paroxes klp.

Oxi. 'H mallov uparxei alla mporouv xwres opws to UK va mn summetexouv.
Auta eivai gvwsta. Gia tous perissoterous ergazomevous dev eivai
problnma auto, eivai tropos zwns. Kai edw pera uparxouv para polloi
ergazomevoi pou dev eivai paravomoi/ la0rometavastes klp kai ergazovtai
se trisa0lies suv0nkes.

> megalutera dikaiwmata tou eyrwpaiou ergazomenou einai
> to dikaiwma ths apergias, etsi?

Dikaiwma to opoio dev mporeis va asknseis xwris suvdikalismo kai efosov
oi perissoteres idiwtikes epixeirnseis dev avagvwrizouv tous
suvdikalistes (vomimotata), oso kai va xtupiesai to dikio sou dev to
briskeis.

> paranomoi den exoun. Oute bebaiws tameio anergias...

Sto UK av eisai vomimos kai exeis xartia 'n av eisai ka0'odov pros tnv
apoktnsn vomimotntas mporeis va eisprateis epidoma ftwxeias to opoio
eivai isoposo tou epidomatos avergias. Stnv Ellada oi avergoi dev
pairvouv tipota av dev exuuv ergastei x xroviko diastnma.

lida anestidou

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 3:30:03 PM8/2/04

Exw parathrhsei, Leuterh, oti emfanizesqai apo to
kabouki sou monaxa otan exeis na epishmaneis kati kako
gia thn Ellada. Opws, px, egrafa tis proalles gia
tous "ellhnoamerikanous".

S'auth th xwra pou zeis symbainoun ta idia kai
xeirotera, monon pou edw, as poume, ena zwo de mporeis
na to kakometaxeiristeis para monaxa kryfa dioti h
astynomia de 8a kagxasei ean to kataggeileis para 8a
speusei na dei ti sumbainei.
Edw IKA den exoun oi ergates tou Walmart, dioti o
megaluiteros idiwtikos ergpodoths ths xwras de dinei
stous upallhlous tou benefits kai den ton kunhga
kaneis dioti exei tous politkous sthn tseph tou.
Edw pou uparxoun ana 5 katoikous kai apo ena tertiary
nosokomeio (auto shmainei nosokomeio me ta pio
e3eidikeumena mhxcanhmata kai iatriokes eidikothtes)
uparxoun 40 ekatommuria anasfalistoi pou pane sto ER
gia ta embolia tous h th gripph tous.

Koita loipon ti sumbainei edw me thn ugeia kai ase thn
ellada h opoia oute ta lefta oute ton plouto ths
amerikhs exei alla toulaxiston tsampa peri8alpsh gia
olous prosferei. Ektos ean e3isswneis thn Amerikh me
thn "politismenh koinwnia" pou anafereis.

--- Eleftherios Hazapis <eh9...@AMERICAN.EDU> wrote:

> Veatrikh kai loipoi anagnwstes,

>
> To mono sxolio pou exw se ola afta pou grafwnte gia

> thn katastash sto IKA
> kai stous dhmous einai oti euxomai merika apo ta
> 3ena thleoptika synergeia
> pou 0a kalyptoun tous agwnes na mporesoun na
> 3efygoun ligo apo tis

> perioxes "vitrina" kai na kalypsoun merika apo ta

> ka0hmerina problhmata
> twn Ellhnwn mesa stis geitonies.
>

> Oso gia to IKA kai ean asfalhzei allodapous auto

> einai to pio ligo otan

> fantasteis oti xiliades para8eristes kai katoikoi
> twn nhsiwn mas den exoun

> prosbash se kamia boh0eia ean pa0oun kati kai
> briskonte sto eleos twn EKAB
> pou apergoun kai to poly poly na tous dw0oun farmaka

> se ena apo auta "ta

> kentra ygeias". Otan den perh0alptoume tous dikous

> mas katoikous ti 0a
> dwsoume stous xiliades 3enous ergates. Grhgora 0a

> ma0oun kai autoi oti se

> auth th xwra yparxoun poloi polites--Ellhnes kai

> 3enoi pou ta bgazoun eis
> peras xwris ta stoixeiwdh mias politismenhs
> koinwnias.
>

> Brwmikoi drwmoi, skoupidia pantou, elleipeis

> apoxeteush, adespota,
> aka0arsies zwwn sta pezodromia, elleipsh symanshs,
> pezodromiwn, yperesiwn
> gia atoma me eidhkes anangkes, kai h lista

> megalwnei....
>
> Ase pou oi OA 0a stoixhsoun 12 dis Euro kai ti

> dw0hke apo auta gia na

> lh0oun ta problhmata tou ka0hmerinou polith? Wraia

> einai h nea stash tou
> metro h to tram alla kala den 0a htan kai h perioxh
> pou e3yperetei to
> meson auto na einai epishs ka0arh?
>

> Alla bebaia milame gia thn xwra pou sou 3erizwnoun
> ta louloudia ap'to khpo
> sou gia na ta baloun sto bazo tous h sou fernoun ta
> skoupidia tous sthn
> eisodo sou gia na mhn lerwnei ta dika tous
> skalwpatia!
>

> _______________________
> Lefteris Hazapis
>
>

=====
Lhda

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?

Eleftherios Hazapis

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 4:30:02 PM8/2/04

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Lida,

Kat'arxh den e3isswnw thn Amerikh me thn Ellada kai oute grafw mono
arnhtika sxolia gia thn Ellada. Grafw gia pragmatikes istories pou akouw
kai blepw otan eimai ekei alla kai otan briskomai edw. Egw pisteuw oti h
lista einai gia ola ta zhthmata pou aforoun thn Ellada kai oxi mono auta
pou koukoulwnoun ta asxhma. Alwste, ta kala ths xwras mas ta 3eroume kai
den exoume logo synexws na ta epanalambanoume.

Den egrafa gia ta kala kai ta asxhma tou IKA alla gia ena synkekrimeno
problhma pou yparxei se kyriws apomakrismenes nhsiwtikes kai alles
perioxes. Dhladh esy ean eisoun apo nhsi, den se enoiaze ean yparxei
giatros h xeirourgeio gia epeigon peristathka?

Oso gia to IKA, meletes dixnoun oti prepei na enswmatwsei tous metanastes
sto systhma wste na mporei na xrhmatodothtai kalytera apo tis eisfores twn
ergazomenwn.

Oso gia thn ka0ariothta kai ta adespota, kalo 0a htan na brhskame kapoia
lysh. Egw menw kata kairous sthn Ellada kai blepw thn katastash
ka0ariothtas pou epikratei sthn geitonia mou tou dhmou mou. Otan dw kati
kalytero tote den 0a grafw arnhtika sxolia.

_______________________
Lefteris Hazapis

lida anestidou <lhda_h...@YAHOO.COM>

Sent by: The Hellenic Discussion List <HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU>

08/02/2004 03:21 PM
Please respond to
lida anestidou <lhda_h...@YAHOO.COM>

To
HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Give me your tired, your poor....

Exw parathrhsei, Leuterh, oti emfanizesqai apo to
kabouki sou monaxa otan exeis na epishmaneis kati kako
gia thn Ellada. Opws, px, egrafa tis proalles gia
tous "ellhnoamerikanous".

Koita loipon ti sumbainei edw me thn ugeia kai ase thn
ellada h opoia oute ta lefta oute ton plouto ths
amerikhs exei alla toulaxiston tsampa peri8alpsh gia

olous prosferei. Ektos ean thn Amerikh me

=====
Lhda

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Lida,
 
 Kat'arxh den e3isswnw thn Amerikh me thn
Ellada kai oute grafw mono arnhtika sxolia gia thn Ellada.  Grafw
gia pragmatikes istories pou akouw kai blepw otan eimai ekei alla kai otan
briskomai edw.  Egw pisteuw oti h lista einai gia ola ta zhthmata
pou aforoun thn Ellada kai oxi mono auta pou koukoulwnoun ta asxhma. Alwste,
ta kala ths xwras mas ta 3eroume kai den exoume logo synexws na ta epanalambanoume.
 
 Den egrafa gia ta kala kai ta asxhma tou
IKA alla gia ena synkekrimeno problhma pou yparxei se kyriws apomakrismenes
nhsiwtikes kai alles perioxes. Dhladh esy ean eisoun apo nhsi, den se enoiaze
ean yparxei giatros h xeirourgeio gia epeigon peristathka?
 
 Oso gia to IKA, meletes dixnoun oti prepei
na enswmatwsei tous metanastes sto systhma wste na mporei na xrhmatodothtai
kalytera apo tis eisfores twn ergazomenwn.
 
 Oso gia thn ka0ariothta kai ta adespota,
kalo 0a htan na brhskame kapoia lysh.  Egw menw kata kairous sthn
Ellada kai blepw thn katastash ka0ariothtas pou epikratei sthn geitonia
mou tou dhmou mou.  Otan dw kati kalytero tote den 0a grafw arnhtika
sxolia.  
 
 _______________________ 
Lefteris Hazapis 

 
 
 
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%>lida anestidou <lhda_h...@YAHOO.COM>

 Sent by: The Hellenic Discussion  List
<HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
08/02/2004 03:21 PM
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<tr valign=top>
<td bgcolor=white>
<div align=center>Please respond to 
lida anestidou <lhda_h...@YAHOO.COM></div></table>
 
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right>To</div>
<td>HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right>cc</div>
<td>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right>Subject</div>
<td>Re: Give me your tired, your poor....</table>
 
<table>
<tr valign=top>

<tt>Exw parathrhsei, Leuterh, oti emfanizesqai apo to 
kabouki sou monaxa otan exeis na epishmaneis kati kako 
gia thn Ellada.  Opws, px, egrafa tis proalles gia 
tous "ellhnoamerikanous". 
 
S'auth th xwra pou zeis symbainoun ta idia kai 
xeirotera, monon pou edw, as poume, ena zwo de mporeis 
na to kakometaxeiristeis para monaxa kryfa dioti h 
astynomia de 8a kagxasei ean to kataggeileis para 8a 
speusei na dei ti sumbainei. 
Edw IKA den exoun oi ergates tou Walmart, dioti o 
megaluiteros idiwtikos ergpodoths ths xwras de dinei 
stous upallhlous tou benefits kai den ton kunhga 
kaneis dioti exei tous politkous sthn tseph tou. 
Edw pou uparxoun ana 5 katoikous kai apo ena tertiary 
nosokomeio (auto shmainei nosokomeio me ta pio 
e3eidikeumena mhxcanhmata kai iatriokes eidikothtes) 
uparxoun 40 ekatommuria anasfalistoi pou pane sto ER 
gia ta embolia tous h th gripph tous. 
 
Koita loipon ti sumbainei edw me thn ugeia kai ase thn 
ellada h opoia oute ta lefta oute ton plouto ths 
amerikhs exei alla toulaxiston tsampa peri8alpsh gia 
olous prosferei.  Ektos ean  thn Amerikh me 
thn "politismenh koinwnia" pou anafereis. 
 
L. 
 
 
--- Eleftherios Hazapis <eh9...@AMERICAN.EDU> wrote: 
 
> Veatrikh kai loipoi anagnwstes, 
> 
> To mono sxolio pou exw se ola afta pou grafwnte gia 
> thn katastash sto IKA 
> kai stous dhmous einai oti euxomai merika apo ta 
> 3ena thleoptika synergeia 
> pou 0a kalyptoun tous agwnes na mporesoun na 
> 3efygoun ligo apo tis 
> perioxes "vitrina" kai na kalypsoun merika apo ta 
> ka0hmerina problhmata 
> twn Ellhnwn mesa stis geitonies. 
> 
> Oso gia to IKA kai ean asfalhzei allodapous auto 
> einai to pio ligo otan 
> fantasteis oti xiliades para8eristes kai katoikoi 
> twn nhsiwn mas den exoun 
> prosbash se kamia boh0eia ean pa0oun kati kai 
> briskonte sto eleos twn EKAB 
> pou apergoun kai to poly poly na tous dw0oun farmaka 
> se ena apo auta "ta 
> kentra ygeias".  Otan den perh0alptoume tous dikous 
> mas katoikous ti 0a 
> dwsoume stous xiliades 3enous ergates.  Grhgora 0a 
> ma0oun kai autoi oti se 
> auth th xwra yparxoun poloi polites--Ellhnes kai 
> 3enoi pou ta bgazoun eis 
> peras xwris ta stoixeiwdh mias politismenhs 
> koinwnias. 
> 
> Brwmikoi drwmoi, skoupidia pantou, elleipeis 
> apoxeteush, adespota, 
> aka0arsies zwwn sta pezodromia, elleipsh symanshs, 
> pezodromiwn, yperesiwn 
> gia atoma me eidhkes anangkes, kai h lista 
> megalwnei.... 
> 
> Ase pou oi OA 0a stoixhsoun 12 dis Euro kai ti 
> dw0hke apo auta gia na 
> lh0oun ta problhmata tou ka0hmerinou polith?  Wraia 
> einai h nea stash tou 
> metro h to tram alla kala den 0a htan kai h perioxh 
> pou e3yperetei to 
> meson auto na einai epishs ka0arh? 
> 
> Alla bebaia milame gia thn xwra pou sou 3erizwnoun 
> ta louloudia ap'to khpo 
> sou gia na ta baloun sto bazo tous h sou fernoun ta 
> skoupidia tous sthn 
> eisodo sou gia na mhn lerwnei ta dika tous 
> skalwpatia! 
> 
> _______________________ 
> Lefteris Hazapis 
> 
> 
 
===== 
Lhda 
 
 
 
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
</tt>
 
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V. Farmaki

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 9:30:02 PM8/2/04

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At 08:58 =EC=EC 2/8/2004, Phidias N. Bourlas wrote:
>Ase tis rntoreies, Beatrikn.

Kalo gia eisagwgh enos mh zwofilou:-)

>Na mazeyei o Dnmos, les, ta adespota;
>Ma eseis eiste pou ourliazete tosov kairo gia va _mnv_ ta mazeyei,

Afto exeis katalavei?
Kala!!
Oi zwofiloi fwnazoun gia thn frontida twn adespotwn ki oxi gia thn e3ontwsh
tous file ki an den katalaves kala toso kairo pou ourliazoume oi zwofiloi,=
=20
ourliazoume
giati sththhke enas eppishmos mpogias pou ta mazevei taxa mou kai meta mhn=
ta
eidate! Afto loipon gia thn tapeinh mh zwofilikh sou gnwmh einai politismos=
=20
kai sevasmos
sta zwa??

>(alla' avti8etws va ta afnsei ave3elegkta va epiti8evtai stov
>kosmo kai va diadidouv as8eveies)!!

Den kindyneveis ap afta nasai sigouros!

>Eseis oi "zwofiloi", pou dnmiourgeite kai to problnma eu8us
>e3 arxns dnladn, paratwvtas ta zwa sas otav ta bare8eite
>n' dev exete ti va kavete.

Edw egrapses pali!!
Emeis oi zwofiloi asxete anthrwpe den ta amolame stous dromous. Antitheta=20
osoi exoume
zwa ta exoume giati ta vrhkame ktyphmena arwsta kai ta ta mazepsame sta=20
spitia mas.
Den einai ratsa, den einai agorasmena, den einai eisagwghs, keramidogatoi=20
kai alhtes
skylia einai.
Ki an diavases thn rhtoria mou eipa pws oi ellhnes DEN agapane ta zwa. Kai=
=20
to eipa kompsa!!
Twra tha sto pw rwmeika: oi ellhnes misoun ta zwa!!!
Afto shmainei pws otan to mpastardo paidaki thelei skylaki 'h gatoula tou=20
pairnoun kai molis
arxisoun oi frontides oi kaloi goneis "zwofiloi" san ki esena ta amolane me=
=20
thn prwth efkairia!

>Ta zwa ta kakometaxeirizovtai, e3 orismou, autoi pou exouv zwa!

Swpa re megale!
pes ki alla tetoia na gelasoume!

1. Aftoi pou exoun zwa loipon den einai e3 orismou zwofiloi kai mhn kaneis
kamia patata pali ki amolyseis kamia ahdia giati otan leme zwa den ennoume=
=20
gatakia
kai skylakia pou exoume sta spitia mas. Sta zwa perilamvanontai kai ta=20
gaidouria kai ta
skeletomena tsompanoskyla klp.klp.. gia ta zwa pou exoun stous anyparktous=
=20
kai geloious
zwologikous khpous pou einai na ta klain ki oi regges!!
Sththhke oloklhrh epixeirhsh ap tous "kakous zwofilous" na swthei ena kai=20
to monadiko
liontaraki pou htan ston ethniko khpo parakalw! fylakismeno se ena klouvi=20
isa me to
megethos tou!!
Ki afto ennoeis pws thaprepe na to paroume spiti mas!! 'H ennoeis pws to=20
eixame emeis kai
to kakometaxeirizomastan? H politeia to eixe kai to eftyne!!
Ki ekei pou les, enas nystaleos kai varemenos argomisthos armodios (vlepe=20
asxetos)
tourixne kai kanena nero kai kanena komati fai na mhn ta tina3ei.
Afth htan h frontida ths politeias gia ena dystyxo zwaki pou tothele men=20
gia na leei pws
exei liontaraki alla tha to protimouse se poster ki oxi zwntano!!
H epixeirhsh loipon pou sththhke apo tous kakous zwofilous htan na erthoun=
=20
apo thn Agglia
alloi kakoi aisxroi zwofiloi na to paroun aeroporikws me dapanes MAS kai=20
TOUS!! se
xwro pou opoios zei sthn agglia 3erei ti shmainei sevasmos sta zwa ki afou=
=20
eprepe fysika
na peisthoun ki oi armodioi pws an den ginei etsi tha tous kseftylisoume=20
diethnws..

2. Edw an katalava kala milame gia ta zwa ta adespota ths polhs pou fysiko=
=20
einai na
plhthainoun mia kai den einai katw apo kapoion elegxo steirwsewn kai=
emvoliwn.
Edw, twra meta apo tosa xronia pou skouzoume thymhthhkan me thn olympiada=20
pws yparxoun
kai adespota! kai eipane wxou twra ti na ta kanoume, pws na mhn dei3oume=20
thn athlia afth
eikona ths ntrophs stous 3enous e, as ta afanisoume!
Kai fysika poios tha kathotane na asxolhthei me ta adespota sta kolwnakia=20
kai sta pagkratia
afta einai mono gia tous ftwxous sto Perama pou o ftwxos to zwaki to exei=20
komati ap thn zwh tou
ki as mhn toxei mesa sto spiti tou!!
Giati afto leei o politismos tou!
Stous "politismenous kai sikatous dhmous" mazepste ta loipon kai thanatwste=
=20
ta na teleiwnoume!!
Aftos einai o politismos sas esas twn mh zwofilwn!!

Kai thathela mou peis pou phgan ola ta ekatontades zwa pou mazepsane en mia=
=20
nykti ap to
kentro kai thn kontinoterh perifereia ths athhnas?? Se poia oikopeda ta=20
phgan? poios ta frontizei?
Otan oi organwseis rwtoun o antidhmarxos den apanta!! xreiazetai na pw=
giati???
Kai ta adespota ths dikhs mas perioxhs kai tou pagkratiou pou tyxainei na=20
3erw oute arwsties
eixan oute epitheseis kanane fysika giati ta frontizan dekades anthrwpoi!!
Ki oi kthniatroi kai twn dyo perioxwn pote ma pote den epairnan mia draxmh=
=20
gia adespoto!!
Kai ston Xolargo kai sthn Ag, Paraskevh kai sto koukaki ta idia!!
Afta ta oliga gia na sou pw poso asxetos eisai me to thema kai milas ki apo=
=20
panw gia tous
"kakous zwofilous"!

3. Se megalh polh ths voreias elladas dhmotikoi arxontes evazan ta adespota=
=20
se forthga kai
ta petagan se xwanes twn silo tou tsimentou!! 3ereis ti shmainei afto?
kai se alles ta petagan sta aporimatofora opou as mhn perigrapsw pws=20
pethainan!!
Afth einai h politeia twn mh zwofilwn alla tha mou peis kai gi afta emeis=20
oi zwofiloi ftaigame!!!
Thes na sou pw ki alla??

4. Sthn leventogenna Krhth ta gaidouria kai ta aloga afou ta e3antlhsoun=20
osa xronia zoun ta
phgainoun sta vouna demena kapou kai ta paratane na pethanoun ekei zwntanos=
=20
argos thanatos
file mh zwofile..
Kai tsigkounevontai na xalasoun ena voli na ta lytrwsoun, giati afta ta=20
exoun gia tis ventetes t
'h gia tis mpalwthies sta glentia!!
Den tha teleiwnw pote!

>Ta peristeria dev vomizw oti exouv problnma sto Suvtagma, pavtws

Nai mono pou h Athhna einai gemath peristeria pou den exoun dhlwsei=20
katoikia thn plateia
syntagmatos!

>(evw sto Lovdivo par8nke apofasn e3olo8reusews, kai opoios
>taisei peristeri trwei agrio prostimo).

Se kamia periptwsh pantws den tha ta afhsoun na psofhsoun 'h tha mathoun=20
panw tous skopovolh!

>Kai gia tnv ka8ariotnta stous dromous, katse va arxisei tis
>evedres n astuvomia kai va rixvei agria prostima

kai siga pou tha fovhthoume twra tous neous mpatsous!!
Ama theloun thn Athhna katharh na vazoun kai kadous gia ta skoupidia kai=20
kalathakia gia ta
mikra antikeimena. As mou valoun emena kado pou DEN exoume sto=20
kentro-kentro ths athhnas!!
na ta rixnw mesa, aloiws tha ta parataw sthn gwnia afou den mporw na ta=20
phgainw ekdromh na ta
kaiw!

>kai epi topou
>se opoiov peta3ei skoupidi (dioti alliws mualo dev mpaivei)`
>alla' 8a arxisouv va milave oloi peri... dnmokratias!

Den vlaptei na milane kai gi afthn ektos ki an stenoxwrei orismenous.

>Dev eivai oi odoka8aristes pou leipouv.

Ta myala leipoun oxi apo emas alla ap aftous pou vgainoun katastaltika gia=
=20
eispra3h anti na
frontizoun noikokyremata.
Kai phgaine sthn Kwnstantinoupolews na deis vrwma kai dysodia kai=20
skoupidotopo kata mhkos twn
grammwn tou trainou!! Ekei den einai dhmos Athhnaiwn? Ekei den zoun=
anthrwpoi?
Tha vgoun ki ekei na kovoun prostima?
Alla ekei den einai vitrina, 3exasa..
Ti geloioi eimaste!!
Mia plaka tou pezodromiou spasmenh mprosta mas me vathos 30-40 pontwn ena=20
mhna, dekades
thlefwna ki h apanthsh den prolavainoume twra exoume alla erga!!
Mono sthn apeilh gia mynhsh hrthan! kai tha vgoun oi kordwmenoi na mas=20
kanoun ntatsi ntatsi ??
xa....... xa......

> F.M.

Loipon ase tous zwofilous sthn hsyxia mas kai frontistre eseis oi=20
politismenoi na vrhte enan allo
politismo pou na xwra kai ta zwa.

ti allo tha akousoume..
veatrikh
h rhtwr=20
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At 08:58 =EC=EC 2/8/2004, Phidias N. Bourlas wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Ase tis rntoreies,
Beatrikn.</blockquote> 
Kalo gia eisagwgh enos mh zwofilou:-) 
 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Na=
mazeyei o
Dnmos, les, ta adespota;

Ma eseis eiste pou ourliazete tosov kairo gia va _mnv_ ta

mazeyei,</blockquote> 
Afto exeis katalavei? 
Kala!! 
Oi zwofiloi fwnazoun gia thn frontida twn adespotwn ki oxi gia thn
e3ontwsh 
tous file ki an den katalaves kala toso kairo pou ourliazoume oi
zwofiloi, ourliazoume 
giati sththhke enas eppishmos mpogias pou ta mazevei taxa mou kai meta
mhn ta 
eidate! Afto loipon gia thn tapeinh mh zwofilikh sou gnwmh einai
politismos kai sevasmos 
sta zwa?? 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">(alla'
avti8etws va ta afnsei ave3elegkta va epiti8evtai stov 
kosmo kai va diadidouv as8eveies)!!</blockquote> 
Den kindyneveis ap afta nasai sigouros! 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Eseis o=
i
"zwofiloi", pou dnmiourgeite kai to problnma eu8us 
e3 arxns dnladn, paratwvtas ta zwa sas otav ta bare8eite 
n' dev exete ti va kavete.</blockquote> 
Edw egrapses pali!! 
Emeis oi zwofiloi asxete anthrwpe de=
n
ta amolame stous dromous. Antitheta osoi exoume 
zwa ta exoume giati ta vrhkame ktyphmena arwsta kai ta ta mazepsame sta
spitia mas. 
Den einai ratsa, den einai agorasmena, den einai eisagwghs, keramidogatoi
kai alhtes 
skylia einai. 
Ki an diavases thn rhtoria mou eipa pws oi ellhnes DEN agapane ta
zwa.  Kai to eipa kompsa!! 
Twra tha sto pw rwmeika: oi ellhnes misoun ta zwa!!! 
Afto shmainei pws otan to mpastardo paidaki thelei skylaki 'h gatoula tou
pairnoun kai molis 
arxisoun oi frontides oi kaloi goneis "zwofiloi" san ki esena
ta amolane me thn prwth efkairia! 
  
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Ta zwa ta kakometaxeirizovtai=
,
e3 orismou, autoi pou exouv zwa!</blockquote> 
Swpa re megale! 
pes ki alla tetoia na gelasoume! 
1. Aftoi pou exoun zwa loipon den
einai e3 orismou zwofiloi kai mhn kaneis 
kamia patata pali ki amolyseis kamia ahdia giati otan leme zwa den
ennoume gatakia 
kai skylakia pou exoume sta spitia mas. Sta zwa perilamvanontai kai ta
gaidouria kai ta 
skeletomena tsompanoskyla klp.klp.. gia ta zwa pou exoun stous
anyparktous kai geloious 
zwologikous khpous pou einai na ta klain ki oi regges!! 
Sththhke oloklhrh epixeirhsh ap tous "kakous zwofilous" na
swthei ena kai to monadiko 
liontaraki pou htan ston ethniko khpo parakalw! fylakismeno se ena klouvi
isa me to 
megethos tou!! 
Ki afto ennoeis pws thaprepe na to paroume spiti mas!! 'H ennoeis pws to
eixame emeis kai 
to kakometaxeirizomastan? H politeia to eixe kai to eftyne!! 
Ki ekei pou les, enas nystaleos kai varemenos argomisthos armodios (vlepe
asxetos) 
tourixne kai kanena nero kai kanena komati fai na mhn ta tina3ei. 
Afth htan h frontida ths politeias gia ena dystyxo zwaki pou tothele men
gia na leei pws 
exei liontaraki alla tha to protimouse se poster ki oxi zwntano!! 
H epixeirhsh loipon pou sththhke apo tous kakous zwofilous htan na
erthoun apo thn Agglia 
alloi kakoi aisxroi zwofiloi na to paroun aeroporikws me dapanes MAS kai
TOUS!! se 
xwro pou opoios zei sthn agglia 3erei ti shmainei sevasmos sta zwa ki
afou eprepe fysika 
na peisthoun ki oi armodioi pws an den ginei etsi tha tous kseftylisoume
diethnws.. 
  
2. Edw an katalava kala milame gia ta zwa ta adespota ths polhs pou
fysiko einai na 
plhthainoun mia kai den einai katw apo kapoion elegxo steirwsewn kai
emvoliwn. 
Edw, twra meta apo tosa xronia pou skouzoume thymhthhkan me thn olympiada
pws yparxoun 
kai adespota! kai eipane wxou twra ti na ta kanoume, pws na mhn dei3oume
thn athlia afth 
eikona ths ntrophs stous 3enous e, as ta afanisoume! 
Kai fysika poios tha kathotane na asxolhthei me ta adespota sta kolwnakia
kai sta pagkratia 
afta einai mono gia tous ftwxous sto Perama pou o ftwxos to zwaki to exei
komati ap thn zwh tou 
ki as mhn toxei mesa sto spiti tou!! 
Giati afto leei o politismos tou! 
Stous "politismenous kai sikatous dhmous" mazepste ta loipon
kai thanatwste ta na teleiwnoume!! 
Aftos einai o politismos sas esas twn mh zwofilwn!! 
Kai thathela mou peis pou phgan ola ta ekatontades zwa pou mazepsane en
mia nykti ap to 
kentro kai thn kontinoterh perifereia ths athhnas?? Se poia oikopeda ta
phgan? poios ta frontizei? 
Otan oi organwseis rwtoun o antidhmarxos den apanta!! xreiazetai na pw
giati??? 
Kai ta adespota ths dikhs mas perioxhs kai tou pagkratiou pou tyxainei na
3erw oute arwsties 
eixan oute epitheseis kanane fysika giati ta frontizan dekades
anthrwpoi!! 
Ki oi kthniatroi kai twn dyo perioxwn pote ma pote den epairnan mia
draxmh gia adespoto!! 
Kai ston Xolargo kai sthn Ag, Paraskevh kai sto koukaki ta idia!! 
Afta ta oliga gia na sou pw poso asxetos eisai me to thema kai milas ki
apo panw gia tous 
"kakous zwofilous"! 
3. Se megalh polh ths voreias elladas dhmotikoi arxontes evazan ta
adespota se forthga kai 
ta petagan se xwanes twn silo tou tsimentou!! 3ereis ti shmainei
afto? 
kai se alles ta petagan sta aporimatofora opou as mhn perigrapsw pws
pethainan!!  
Afth einai h politeia twn mh zwofilwn alla tha mou peis kai gi afta emeis
oi zwofiloi ftaigame!!! 
Thes na sou pw ki alla?? 
4. Sthn leventogenna Krhth ta gaidouria kai ta aloga afou ta e3antlhsoun
osa xronia zoun ta 
phgainoun sta vouna demena kapou kai ta paratane na pethanoun ekei
zwntanos argos thanatos 
file mh zwofile.. 
Kai tsigkounevontai na xalasoun ena voli na ta lytrwsoun, giati afta ta
exoun gia tis ventetes t 
'h gia tis mpalwthies sta glentia!! 
Den tha teleiwnw pote! 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Ta

peristeria dev vomizw oti exouv problnma sto Suvtagma,

pavtws</blockquote> 
Nai mono pou h Athhna einai gemath peristeria pou
den exoun dhlwsei katoikia thn plateia 
syntagmatos! 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">(evw st=
o
Lovdivo par8nke apofasn e3olo8reusews, kai opoios 
taisei peristeri trwei agrio prostimo).</blockquote> 
Se kamia periptwsh pantws den tha ta afhsoun na
psofhsoun 'h tha mathoun panw tous skopovolh! 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Kai gia=
tnv
ka8ariotnta stous dromous, katse va arxisei tis

evedres n astuvomia kai va rixvei agria prostima

</blockquote> 
kai siga pou tha fovhthoume twra tous neous
mpatsous!! 
Ama theloun thn Athhna katharh na vazoun kai kadous gia ta skoupidia kai
kalathakia gia ta 
mikra antikeimena. As mou valoun emena kado pou DEN exoume sto
kentro-kentro ths athhnas!! 
na ta rixnw mesa, aloiws tha ta parataw sthn gwnia afou den mporw na ta
phgainw ekdromh na ta 
kaiw! 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">kai epi
topou 
se opoiov peta3ei skoupidi (dioti alliws mualo dev mpaivei)`

alla' 8a arxisouv va milave oloi peri...

dnmokratias!</blockquote> 
Den vlaptei  na  milane kai gi afthn
ektos ki an stenoxwrei orismenous. 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Dev=
eivai oi
odoka8aristes pou leipouv.</blockquote> 
Ta myala leipoun oxi apo emas alla ap aftous pou
vgainoun katastaltika gia eispra3h anti na 
frontizoun noikokyremata. 
Kai phgaine sthn Kwnstantinoupolews na deis vrwma kai dysodia kai
skoupidotopo kata mhkos twn 
grammwn tou trainou!! Ekei den einai dhmos Athhnaiwn? Ekei den zoun
anthrwpoi? 
Tha vgoun ki ekei na kovoun prostima? 
Alla ekei den einai vitrina, 3exasa.. 
Ti geloioi eimaste!! 
Mia plaka tou pezodromiou spasmenh
mprosta mas me vathos 30-40 pontwn ena mhna, dekades 
thlefwna ki h apanthsh den prolavainoume twra exoume alla erga!! 
Mono sthn apeilh gia mynhsh hrthan! kai tha vgoun oi kordwmenoi na mas
kanoun ntatsi ntatsi ?? 
xa.......         xa......
 
 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><font=
size=3D3><x-tab>        </x-tab>F.M=
.</blockquote> 
Loipon ase tous zwofilous sthn hsyxia mas kai
frontistre eseis oi politismenoi na vrhte enan allo 
politismo pou na xwra kai ta zwa. 
ti allo tha akousoume.. 
veatrikh 
h rhtwr</body>
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V. Farmaki

unread,

Aug 2, 2004, 9:30:03 PM8/2/04

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Ma antexei h ellada na dinei epidoma anergeias stous xiliades paranomous pou
mphkan nyxta? H agglia exei ton idio rythmo eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous
amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia?
Posostiaia exoun sxesh oi paranomoi ths agglias me tous paranomous ths=
elladas?

veatrikh =20
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At 09:38 =EC=EC 2/8/2004, Sophia wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">lida anestidou wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">tous ergazomenous tou
aprostateytous. Sthn EU uparxei 
katwteros mis8os, koinwnikes paroxes klp.</blockquote>

Oxi. 'H mallov uparxei alla mporouv xwres opws to UK va mn

summetexouv. 
Auta eivai gvwsta. Gia tous perissoterous ergazomevous dev eivai 
problnma auto, eivai tropos zwns. Kai edw pera uparxouv para polloi

ergazomevoi pou dev eivai paravomoi/ la0rometavastes klp kai

ergazovtai 
se trisa0lies suv0nkes. 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">megalutera dikaiwmata tou
eyrwpaiou ergazomenou einai 
to dikaiwma ths apergias, etsi?</blockquote>

Dikaiwma to opoio dev mporeis va asknseis xwris suvdikalismo kai

efosov 
oi perissoteres idiwtikes epixeirnseis dev avagvwrizouv tous 
suvdikalistes (vomimotata), oso kai va xtupiesai to dikio sou dev=20
to 
briskeis. 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">paranomoi den exoun. Oute
bebaiws tameio anergias...</blockquote>

Sto UK av eisai vomimos kai exeis xartia 'n av eisai ka0'odov pros

tnv 
apoktnsn vomimotntas mporeis va eisprateis epidoma ftwxeias to=20
opoio 
eivai isoposo tou epidomatos avergias. Stnv Ellada oi avergoi dev

pairvouv tipota av dev exuuv ergastei x xroviko

diastnma.</blockquote> 
Ma antexei h ellada na dinei epidoma anergeias stous xiliades paranomous
pou 
mphkan nyxta? H agglia exei ton idio rythmo eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous
 
amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia? 
Posostiaia exoun sxesh oi paranomoi ths agglias me tous paranomous ths
elladas? 
veatrikh </body>
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--=====================_6211311==.ALT--

Phidias Bourlas

unread,

Aug 3, 2004, 3:30:04 AM8/3/04

"V. Farmaki" <easyt...@HOL.GR> said:

> osoi exoume
> zwa ta exoume giati ta vrhkame ktyphmena arwsta kai ta ta mazepsame sta

> spitia mas.
> Den einai ratsa, den einai agorasmena, den einai eisagwghs, keramidogatoi

> kai alhtes skylia einai.

A3iepaivo auto, dev lew. Pavtws to problnma me ta adespota
paramevei.

> Afto shmainei pws otan to mpastardo paidaki thelei skylaki 'h gatoula tou
> pairnoun kai molis

> arxisoun oi frontides oi kaloi goneis "zwofiloi" san ki esena ta amolane me

> thn prwth efkairia!

Dev eimai egw oute kalos oute goveus oute "zwofilos"` ta parapova
sou stov dnmarxo!

> 1. Aftoi pou exoun zwa loipon den einai e3 orismou zwofiloi

Alla' ta zwa ta kakometaxeirizovtai e3 orismou autoi pou ta
exouv, dnladn eseis. Egw ta zwa ta agapw. Mou aresouv pou ta
blepw sta vtokumavtair. Movo pou auta dev mporouv va znsouv stnv
poln (kai ais8avomai polu asxnma otav blepw eva talaipwrnmevo
adespoto va upoferei), opws egw dev mporw va znsw stnv zougkla
tou Amazoviou kai tou Kogko.

> otan leme zwa den ennoume gatakia

> kai skylakia pou exoume sta spitia mas. Sta zwa perilamvanontai kai ta
> gaidouria kai ta

> skeletomena tsompanoskyla klp.klp..

Dev gvwrizw` egw stnv poln megalwsa, oute spiti oute kav suggeveis
dev exw se xwrio.

[Xrats ta twv zwologikwv knpwv - gia ta opoia exeis dikio pavtws,
dev diafwvw ka8olou.]

> Edw, twra meta apo tosa xronia pou skouzoume thymhthhkan me thn olympiada

> pws yparxoun kai adespota!

Kallio arga para' pote'.

> Stous "politismenous kai sikatous dhmous" mazepste ta loipon kai thanatwste

> ta na teleiwnoume!!
> Aftos einai o politismos sas esas twn mh zwofilwn!!

H steirwsn twv adespotwv eivai mia morfn makropro8esmns
eu8avasias` ousiastikws o skopos eivai va pausouv va uparxouv
adespota. To erwtnma loipov eivai: Givetai va zouv adespota
stnv poln; kai pw's;
To av n eu8avasia, se av8rwpous n' zwa, eivai kati n8ikws
apodektov, eivai allo megalo 8ema, kai 8a mporousame va to
suzntnsoume.

> Kai ta adespota ths dikhs mas perioxhs kai tou pagkratiou pou tyxainei na
> 3erw oute arwsties

> eixan oute epitheseis kanane fysika giati ta frontizan dekades anthrwpoi!!

Xa! Posa akoume ka8e toso stis eidnseis; Kai mia bolta pros tou
Filopappou n' pros tov lofo tou Ardnttou (eixa paei mia bolta ekei
teleutaia` dokimase, oxi va avebeis pavw, alla' va peraseis apo
tov perifereiako dromo, kai ama ta katafereis kai dev suvavtnseis
ageles agriwv skuliwv etoimwv va epite8ouv, pes mou) kai allou'
eivai arketn.

> 3. Se megalh polh ths voreias elladas dhmotikoi arxontes evazan ta adespota
> se forthga kai

> ta petagan se xwanes twn silo tou tsimentou!! 3ereis ti shmainei afto?
> kai se alles ta petagan sta aporimatofora opou as mhn perigrapsw pws

> pethainan!!
> Afth einai h politeia twn mh zwofilwn alla tha mou peis kai gi afta emeis

> oi zwofiloi ftaigame!!!
> Thes na sou pw ki alla??
>

> 4. Sthn leventogenna Krhth ta gaidouria kai ta aloga afou ta e3antlhsoun
> osa xronia zoun ta

> phgainoun sta vouna demena kapou kai ta paratane na pethanoun ekei zwntanos
> argos thanatos

> file mh zwofile..

> Kai tsigkounevontai na xalasoun ena voli na ta lytrwsoun, giati afta ta
> exoun gia tis ventetes t

> 'h gia tis mpalwthies sta glentia!!
> Den tha teleiwnw pote!

Kai kala kaveis, alla' auta va ta blepete prwta eseis oi agrotes
tns eparxias. Eseis prepei va balete mualo. Emeva mou ta les; Egw ta
zwa ta 3erw apo ta vtokumavtair tns tnleorasns, kai auta pou les
me kavouv va frittw.

> >Kai gia tnv ka8ariotnta stous dromous, katse va arxisei tis
> >evedres n astuvomia kai va rixvei agria prostima
>
> kai siga pou tha fovhthoume twra tous neous mpatsous!!

Xm, stous sta8mous tou metro' oute tsigaro dev blepw pavtws.
Kai oi kameres telikws kati katafervouv, faivetai!

> Ama theloun thn Athhna katharh na vazoun kai kadous gia ta skoupidia kai
> kalathakia gia ta

> mikra antikeimena. As mou valoun emena kado pou DEN exoume sto
> kentro-kentro ths athhnas!!

> na ta rixnw mesa, aloiws tha ta parataw sthn gwnia afou den mporw na ta
> phgainw ekdromh na ta

> kaiw!

A, kala pou to paradexesai!

> Kai phgaine sthn Kwnstantinoupolews na deis vrwma kai dysodia kai
> skoupidotopo kata mhkos twn

> grammwn tou trainou!! Ekei den einai dhmos Athhnaiwn? Ekei den zoun anthrwpoi?

Av8rwpoi pou petave skoupidia stov dromo, opws faivetai.

> Loipon ase tous zwofilous sthn hsyxia mas kai frontistre eseis oi
> politismenoi na vrhte enan allo

> politismo pou na xwra kai ta zwa.

Pou' va ta xwra omws; Lukoskulo pavtws sto mpalkovaki tou
diamerismatos mou dev xwra. Avte, kava yaraki sto evudreio, estw.
Pw's va to kavoume, pou' va znsouv ta zwa stnv poln;

> veatrikh
> h rhtwr

F.M.

Sophia

unread,

Aug 3, 2004, 6:30:03 AM8/3/04

V. Farmaki wrote:
> Ma antexei h ellada na dinei epidoma anergeias stous xiliades paranomous
> pou mphkan nyxta?

Oxi, alla dev to divei oute stous vomimous giati uparxei akoma to diktuo
stnri3ns tns oikogevieas pou dev uaprxie edw. Otav a0 payei va uparxei
(kalomeleta ki erxetai) tote 0a avagkastei va prosarmostei kai n
vomo0esia alliws 0a pe0aivouv apo tnv peiva stous dromous oi avergoi.

> H agglia exei ton idio rythmo eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous
> amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia?

Nai.

> Posostiaia exoun sxesh oi paranomoi ths agglias me tous paranomous ths
> elladas?

Nai. Malista ama baleis kai tous nmi-paravomous, eivia perisosteori,
giati oloi erxovtai mev stnv Ellada pou eivai sta avatolikotera tns EE
me skopo va kataln3ouv stnv Agglia.

Sophia

unread,

Aug 3, 2004, 6:30:03 AM8/3/04

lida anestidou

unread,

Aug 3, 2004, 10:30:02 AM8/3/04

--- "V. Farmaki" <easyt...@HOL.GR> wrote:
>>
> Ma antexei h ellada na dinei epidoma anergeias stous
> xiliades paranomous pou

> mphkan nyxta? H agglia exei ton idio rythmo

> eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous
> amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia?

> Posostiaia exoun sxesh oi paranomoi ths agglias me
> tous paranomous ths elladas?
>

> veatrikh

beatrikh,

mexri na ftasoume ekei exei polla alla na kanei to
kratos prwta na dei3ei oxi mono an8rwpinh sumperifora
alla kai dhmokratikes euais8hsies kai idewdh. As
paroume ena sugkekrimeno paradeigma: oi oikogeneies
autwn pou skotw8hkan sta olumpiaka erga 8a paroun
apozhmiwsh? anagnwrizei kaneis oti o pater-familias ek
X xwras douleue ekei? pws einai dunaton na epitrepei
kratos eunomoumeno na apasxolountai paranomoi gia to
meromis8io alla otan traumatizontai ews skotwnontai na
tous petame sa skoupidia?

=====
Lhda

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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V. Farmaki

unread,

Aug 3, 2004, 12:30:01 PM8/3/04

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At 12:58 =EC=EC 3/8/2004, Sophia wrote:

>V. Farmaki wrote:
>>Ma antexei h ellada na dinei epidoma anergeias stous xiliades paranomous
>>pou mphkan nyxta?
>

>Oxi, alla dev to divei oute stous vomimous giati uparxei akoma to diktuo
>stnri3ns tns oikogevieas pou dev uaprxie edw.

Nai den dinei stous ep apeiron anergous. Dinei omws kanonika kai gia=
arketous
mhnes (den thymamai posous) se opoion apolyetai ap thn douleia tou.

>Otav a0 payei va uparxei
>(kalomeleta ki erxetai) tote 0a avagkastei va prosarmostei kai n
>vomo0esia alliws 0a pe0aivouv apo tnv peiva stous dromous oi avergoi.
>

>>H agglia exei ton idio rythmo eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous
>>amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia?
>

>Nai.

Kai pws mpainoun? apo pou? pernan apo gallia - Ollandia?!!!

veatrikh=20
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<body>
At 12:58 =EC=EC 3/8/2004, Sophia wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">V. Farmaki wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Ma antexei h ellada na dinei
epidoma anergeias stous xiliades paranomous 
pou mphkan nyxta?</blockquote>

Oxi, alla dev to divei oute stous vomimous giati uparxei akoma to

diktuo 
stnri3ns tns oikogevieas pou dev uaprxie edw. </blockquote> 
Nai den dinei stous ep apeiron anergous. Dinei omws
kanonika kai gia arketous 
mhnes (den thymamai posous) se opoion apolyetai ap thn douleia
tou. 
 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Otav a0
payei va uparxei 
(kalomeleta ki erxetai) tote 0a avagkastei va prosarmostei kai n

vomo0esia alliws 0a pe0aivouv apo tnv peiva stous dromous oi

avergoi. 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">H agglia exei ton idio rythmo
eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous 
amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia?</blockquote> 
Nai.</blockquote> 
Kai pws mpainoun? apo pou? pernan apo gallia -
Ollandia?!!! 
 
veatrikh</body>
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V. Farmaki

unread,

Aug 3, 2004, 12:30:02 PM8/3/04

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At 04:31 =EC=EC 3/8/2004, lida anestidou wrote:

>--- "V. Farmaki" <easyt...@HOL.GR> wrote:
> >>
> > Ma antexei h ellada na dinei epidoma anergeias stous
> > xiliades paranomous pou

> > mphkan nyxta? H agglia exei ton idio rythmo

> > eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous
> > amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia?

> > Posostiaia exoun sxesh oi paranomoi ths agglias me
> > tous paranomous ths elladas?
> >
> > veatrikh
>
>beatrikh,
>
>mexri na ftasoume ekei exei polla alla na kanei to
>kratos prwta na dei3ei oxi mono an8rwpinh sumperifora
>alla kai dhmokratikes euais8hsies kai idewdh. As
>paroume ena sugkekrimeno paradeigma: oi oikogeneies
>autwn pou skotw8hkan sta olumpiaka erga 8a paroun
>apozhmiwsh? anagnwrizei kaneis oti o pater-familias ek
>X xwras douleue ekei? pws einai dunaton na epitrepei
>kratos eunomoumeno na apasxolountai paranomoi gia to
>meromis8io alla otan traumatizontai ews skotwnontai na
>tous petame sa skoupidia?

Kaneis den tha to hthele afto!!
Alla eisai sigourh pws osoi ergazontousan sta erga htan paranomoi?
Giati exoun parei karta paramonhs kai ergasias panw apo 600.000 3enoi
ergates oi opoioi exoun plhrh kai idia dikaiwmata me emena kai ton kathe
ellhna polith.
An pas mia volta se opoiodhpote IKA kyriws se geitonies opou menoun
p.x. kypselh tha tous deis oures sta e3wterika iatreia, oi giatroi na=20
paidevontai
na synennohthoun kai paei legontas. Einai de polloi de aftoi pou exoun=
vgalei
kai synta3h anaphrias kai e3akolouthoun na ergazontai fysika!
Se plhroforw pws exoun mathei tous nomous kai ti dikaiountai kallitera ap=
ton
kathe ellhna!! Ase de pou pane sta iatreia kai sta nosokomeia alloi me=20
vivliaria
allwn!!
Den mporei na pei kaneis kouventa sthn Ellada gia to pws tous feretai apo
plevras koinwnikhs pronoias.
Sta Iwannina to pan/miako nos/meio einai gemato apo alvanous ths Alvanias=
oxi
tous edw pouy perithalpontai gia sovares pathhseis kai giati ekei den=
yparxei
dynatothta. Den syzhtw fysika ta sovara peristatika pou shmeiwnontai sthn=20
Alvania
apo atyxhmata klp. kai tous pane kat efteian ekei kai dwrean!
Loipon? Antexei o korvanas tetoio varos frontidas kai perithalpshs gia anw=
=20
tou 1.5
ekatomyriou plhthysmou an laveis yp opsin kai tis oikogeneies twn metanastwn
alla kai tous paranomous pou oudepote tous arnhthhke kanena nosokomeio thn
dwrean perithalpsh!?!
Poso tha ante3oume? Ti eimaste h plousia xwra me ta petrelaia kai to xrhma=
=20
na reei?

Kai twra pou teleiwsan ta erga ths olympiadas ti tha kanoun oi anthrwpoi?
H ellada ti mporei na kanei?
Afta ta erga eixe afto to pswmi prosefere. Tha prepei na anazhthsoun allou=
=20
pali
thn tyxh tous osoi den exoun kanei kati diko tous edw.
Kathe nyxta 3evrazontai ap thn Tourkia dekades metanastes sta nhsia mas.
Esy mexri posous tha'vlepes pws mporei to systhma na ante3ei??
Ki an as poume vrethei mexri na prowthhthoun se alles xwres mesw twn=20
organismwn klp.
kamia doulitsa na vgaloun kanena fragko tote ormane oloi kai fwnazoun
gia ekmetalefsh kai kakh symperifora!
Na tous afhsoume na pethanoun? Tous exoun sta kentra ypodoxhs me faghto kai
katalyma. Afto mporoun afto dinoun. Ki aftoi to skane kai vgainoun sthn=20
piatsa gia
na vroun thn tyxh tous monoi tous. Pou kai pws tha thn vroun?
Sthn Italia tous exoun se gketo pou den vlepoun oute to apenanti xwrio. Gia=
=20
na mhn
poume ta vaporias pou vouliazan kai tous epnigan... h politismenh afth=20
viomhxanikh xwra..
Den einai apla ta pragmata kai to provlhma einai syntheto.
H Ellada oti mporei kanei.

veatrikh

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<body>
At 04:31 =EC=EC 3/8/2004, lida anestidou wrote: 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">--- "V. Farmaki"
<easyt...@HOL.GR> wrote: 
>> 
> Ma antexei h ellada na dinei epidoma anergeias stous 
> xiliades paranomous pou 
> mphkan nyxta? H agglia exei ton idio rythmo 
> eiserxomenwn me emas pou tous 
> amolane oi tourkoi sta xiliades nhsakia? 
> Posostiaia exoun sxesh oi paranomoi ths agglias me 
> tous paranomous ths elladas? 
> 
> veatrikh 
beatrikh, 
mexri na ftasoume ekei exei polla alla na kanei to 
kratos prwta na dei3ei oxi mono an8rwpinh sumperifora 
alla kai dhmokratikes euais8hsies kai idewdh. As 
paroume ena sugkekrimeno paradeigma: oi oikogeneies 
autwn pou skotw8hkan sta olumpiaka erga 8a paroun 
apozhmiwsh? anagnwrizei kaneis oti o pater-familias ek 
X xwras douleue ekei? pws einai dunaton na epitrepei 
kratos eunomoumeno na apasxolountai paranomoi gia to 
meromis8io alla otan traumatizontai ews skotwnontai na 
tous petame sa skoupidia?</blockquote> 
Kaneis den tha to hthele afto!! 
Alla eisai sigourh pws osoi ergazontousan sta erga htan paranomoi? 
Giati exoun parei karta paramonhs kai ergasias panw apo 600.000 3enoi
 
ergates oi opoioi exoun plhrh kai idia dikaiwmata me emena kai ton kathe
 
ellhna polith. 
An pas mia volta se opoiodhpote IKA kyriws se geitonies opou menoun=20
 
p.x. kypselh tha tous deis oures sta e3wterika iatreia, oi giatroi na
paidevontai 
na synennohthoun kai paei legontas. Einai de polloi de aftoi pou exoun
vgalei 
kai synta3h anaphrias kai e3akolouthoun na ergazontai fysika! 
Se plhroforw pws exoun mathei tous nomous kai ti dikaiountai kallitera ap
ton 
kathe ellhna!! Ase de pou pane sta iatreia kai sta nosokomeia alloi me
vivliaria 
allwn!! 
Den mporei na pei kaneis kouventa sthn Ellada gia to pws tous feretai apo
 
plevras koinwnikhs pronoias. 
Sta Iwannina to pan/miako nos/meio einai gemato apo alvanous ths Alvanias
oxi 
tous edw pouy perithalpontai gia sovares pathhseis kai giati ekei den
yparxei 
dynatothta. Den syzhtw fysika ta sovara peristatika pou shmeiwnontai sthn
Alvania 
apo atyxhmata klp. kai tous pane kat efteian ekei kai dwrean! 
Loipon? Antexei o korvanas tetoio varos frontidas kai perithalpshs gia
anw tou 1.5 
ekatomyriou plhthysmou an laveis yp opsin kai tis oikogeneies twn
metanastwn 
alla kai tous paranomous pou oudepote tous arnhthhke kanena nosokomeio
thn 
dwrean perithalpsh!?! 
Poso tha ante3oume? Ti eimaste h plousia xwra me ta petrelaia kai to
xrhma na reei? 
Kai twra pou teleiwsan ta erga ths olympiadas ti tha kanoun
oi anthrwpoi? 
H ellada ti mporei na kanei? 
Afta ta erga eixe afto to pswmi prosefere. Tha prepei na anazhthsoun
allou pali 
thn tyxh tous osoi den exoun kanei kati diko tous edw. 
Kathe nyxta 3evrazontai ap thn Tourkia dekades metanastes sta nhsia mas.
 
Esy mexri posous tha'vlepes pws mporei to systhma na ante3ei?? 
Ki an as poume vrethei mexri na prowthhthoun se alles xwres mesw twn
organismwn klp. 
kamia doulitsa na vgaloun kanena fragko tote ormane oloi kai fwnazoun
 
gia ekmetalefsh kai kakh symperifora! 
Na tous afhsoume na pethanoun? Tous exoun sta kentra ypodoxhs me faghto
kai 
katalyma. Afto mporoun afto dinoun. Ki aftoi to skane kai vgainoun sthn
piatsa gia 
na vroun thn tyxh tous monoi tous. Pou kai pws tha thn vroun? 
Sthn Italia tous exoun se gketo pou den vlepoun oute to apenanti xwrio.
Gia na mhn 
poume ta vaporias pou vouliazan kai tous epnigan... h  politismenh
afth viomhxanikh xwra.. 
Den einai apla ta pragmata kai to provlhma einai syntheto. 
H Ellada oti mporei kanei.

veatrikh 
</body>
</html>

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Sophia

unread,

Aug 3, 2004, 12:30:03 PM8/3/04

V. Farmaki wrote:
> Nai den dinei stous ep apeiron anergous. Dinei omws kanonika kai gia

> arketous mhnes (den thymamai posous) se opoion apolyetai ap thn douleia tou.

E3i mnves kai gia va to pareis prepei va exeis sumplnrwsei kapoia
evsnma. To idio sustnma eoxuv ki edw, alal edw divouv to idio poso
(xwris va to leve epidoma avergias) se opoiv eivai aporos.

> Kai pws mpainoun? apo pou? pernan apo gallia - Ollandia?!!!

Kuriws apo Gallia, gia'uto eixav givei kai polles gkrivies avamesa stis
duo xwres. Mpaivouv me ploia, me fortnga klp. 'H erxovtai gia diakopes
kai de feugouv (upologizetai oti uparxouv 40K australoi paravomoi stn
xwra kai mporei mev va mnv eivia tritokosmikoi kai va mnv zntiaveuouv,
alla ergazovtai paravoma). To 2003 eixav guriisei pisw sto Ntober 8K
paravomous.

Gurw stis 75K to xrovo zntave politiko asulo stn xwra- stnv
pragmatikotnta eivai metavastes oi perissoteroi, pou dev diatrexouv
kaveva kivduvo, alla ama pei oti 0elei politiko asulo dev mporouv va tov
diw3ouv amesws kai mexri va bgei apofasn gia to politiko asulo,
"xavovtai" kai dev mporei va tous brei kaveis.

lida anestidou

unread,

Aug 5, 2004, 12:30:02 PM8/5/04

--- "V. Farmaki" <easyt...@hol.gr> wrote:

> Kaneis den tha to hthele afto!!
> Alla eisai sigourh pws osoi ergazontousan sta erga
> htan paranomoi?
> Giati exoun parei karta paramonhs kai ergasias panw
> apo 600.000 3enoi
> ergates oi opoioi exoun plhrh kai idia dikaiwmata me
> emena kai ton kathe
> ellhna polith.

oxi den eimai bebaih, omologw. Alla se rwtw, oloi osoi
exoun adeia oparamonhs douleuoun me swstes kai nomimes
sun8hkes ergasias? dhladh pairnoun IKA, enshma,
apozhmiwseis kai idio mis8o me tous ellhnes? 8elw na
pw, uparxoun diafora epipeda paranomias, me ton idio,
omws, stoxo: thn elaxisth epibarunsh ths tsephs tou
ergodoth. Kai epeita, enas me adeia paramonhs poso
eleu8eros ais8anetai na kanei epishma parapona gia ton
tropo kai sun8hkes proslhpshs kai ergasias tou?

auta pou grafeis gia ta nosokomeia ta gnwrizw, edw kai
xronia einai etsi kai gia ta Giannena eidika.

Antexei o korvanas tetoio varos frontidas
> kai perithalpshs gia anw
> tou 1.5

> ekatomyriou plhthysmou an laveis yp opsin kai tis
> oikogeneies twn metanastwn
> alla kai tous paranomous pou oudepote tous arnhthhke
> kanena nosokomeio thn
> dwrean perithalpsh!?!
> Poso tha ante3oume? Ti eimaste h plousia xwra me ta
> petrelaia kai to xrhma

> na reei?

me thn idia logikh, antexei to kratos na ependuei h na
sunthrei koinwnikes paroxes? ean tis kanoume
idiwtikes, tote gluitwnei to kratos xiliades
ekatommuria. 8elw na pw oti se kratos-pronoias opws ta
eyrwpaika (mexri twra dhladh) de bazeis kanones kai
orous, h paideia kai h ugeia einai ga8a gia olous.
Apa3 kai arxiseis, tote kanones kai diaxwrismoi
mpainoun polu eukola kai stamathmo den 8a exoun.

>
> Kai twra pou teleiwsan ta erga ths olympiadas ti tha
> kanoun oi anthrwpoi?
> H ellada ti mporei na kanei?
> Afta ta erga eixe afto to pswmi prosefere.

fusika. auto isxuei gia olous osous proslhf8hkan
proswrina gia tous olumpiakous.

> Esy mexri posous tha'vlepes pws mporei to systhma na
> ante3ei??

opoiosdhpote doulepse se ellhniko ergo dikaioutai to
antistoixo epidoma anergias, dioti etsi einai to swsto
kai to dikaio.

>> kamia doulitsa na vgaloun kanena fragko tote ormane
> oloi kai fwnazoun
> gia ekmetalefsh kai kakh symperifora!

re Beatrikh, 8umasai tis filippinezes? spiti, faghto
kai e3oda parastashs mhden, sun enan (usually) penixro
mis8o, pou omws htan kaluteros apo tis eukairies stis
Filippines. posoi ergodotes tous kratousan ta
diabathria tous? auto den htan ekmetaleush kai as
eixan faghto kai stegh?

> Na tous afhsoume na pethanoun? Tous exoun sta kentra
> ypodoxhs me faghto kai
> katalyma. Afto mporoun afto dinoun.

etsi prepei.

Ki aftoi to
> skane kai vgainoun sthn
> piatsa gia

> na vroun thn tyxh tous monoi tous. Pou kai pws tha
> thn vroun?

ean den prospa8hseis de 8a 3ereis ean 8a ta
katafereis, omws. Ti na perimenoun? xorhghsh politikou
asulou?

> Sthn Italia tous exoun se gketo pou den vlepoun oute
> to apenanti xwrio.

Ma poios eipe oti auta einai paradeigma pros mimish?

ean 8es, akouse h mallon diabase auto:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/yy_ftf_athens_230704.shtml

Phidias Bourlas

unread,

Aug 5, 2004, 12:30:03 PM8/5/04

O Kapralos ftaiei. Otav katalabaiveis oti o allos
eivai kakoproairetos kai usteroboulos, kobeis tnv suzntnsn
me tnv mia:
Exoume labei ola ta metra` atuxnmata sumbaivouv.
Alln erwtnsn` exw apavtnsei` xairetismata.

> me thn idia logikh, antexei to kratos na ependuei h na
> sunthrei koinwnikes paroxes? ean tis kanoume
> idiwtikes, tote gluitwnei to kratos xiliades
> ekatommuria. 8elw na pw oti se kratos-pronoias opws ta
> eyrwpaika (mexri twra dhladh) de bazeis kanones kai
> orous, h paideia kai h ugeia einai ga8a gia olous.

Tous _Ellnves polites_, opws rntws kai safws orizei
to Suvtagma (kai opoios dev to gvwrizei, va avoi3ei
ta straba tou va to diabasei) kai n koivn logikn`
oxi ta... 7 dis katoikous tou plavntn!!!

V. Farmaki

unread,

Aug 5, 2004, 8:30:02 PM8/5/04

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At 06:38 =EC=EC 5/8/2004, lida anestidou wrote:
>--- "V. Farmaki" <easyt...@hol.gr> wrote:
>
> > Kaneis den tha to hthele afto!!
> > Alla eisai sigourh pws osoi ergazontousan sta erga
> > htan paranomoi?
> > Giati exoun parei karta paramonhs kai ergasias panw
> > apo 600.000 3enoi
> > ergates oi opoioi exoun plhrh kai idia dikaiwmata me
> > emena kai ton kathe
> > ellhna polith.
>
>oxi den eimai bebaih, omologw. Alla se rwtw, oloi osoi
>exoun adeia oparamonhs douleuoun me swstes kai nomimes
>sun8hkes ergasias? dhladh pairnoun IKA, enshma,
>apozhmiwseis kai idio mis8o me tous ellhnes? 8elw na
>pw, uparxoun diafora epipeda paranomias, me ton idio,
>omws, stoxo: thn elaxisth epibarunsh ths tsephs tou
>ergodoth. Kai epeita, enas me adeia paramonhs poso
>eleu8eros ais8anetai na kanei epishma parapona gia ton
>tropo kai sun8hkes proslhpshs kai ergasias tou?

Oso exei ana ton kosmo! Oso exei ki o Ellhnas!
Otan exeis anagkh apo douleia tha pas sthn douleia kai
an dexesai afta pou sou dinoun tha ergasteis alloiws tha
perimeneis stis plateies stis 5-6 to prwi na se mazepsei kaneis
na vgaleis merokamato.
Mhn nomizeis pws einai efkolo na vreis ergath alvano 'h opoion
allon me liga lefta! 3eroun poly kala ti prepei na paroun kai
pazarevoun. Kai gia 6wro fysika! Sta xwria tous parakalane na
pane sta xwrafia pou shmainei tous plhrwnoun kala.
Den einai tyxaio pws oi perissoteroi toulaxiston alvanoi kai
moldavoi exoun agorasei spitia sthn patrida tous!
Apo kei kai pera se mia eleftherh oikonomia yparxoun oi efkairies
alla kai oi dyskolies ths anagkhs ths zhthshs kai ths eparkeias.
An evriskes esy gia na sou vapsoun to spiti enan polwno me x lefta
ki enan allon me ligotera, systhmenoi ki oi dyo ypotithetai, tha epairnes
ton akrivotero??
Tha tou evazes kai IKA?? Ma mporei na htan kai paranomos! den tha
ton epairnes? tha tou zhtages xartia?
Ki an epefte apo mia skala kai tsakizotan?
Den einai efkola ta pragmata kai shmasia exei na mporoun na
epiviwsoun oloi aftoi pou 3evrazontai ston topo mas mexri na doun ti tha
kanoun an meinoun an pane allou klp.. xwris omws apaithseis na
akolouthoun tous rythmous twn dikaiwmatwn twn ellhnwn ergazomenwn
pou mia zwh plhrwnoun forous eite emesa (misthwtoi) eite amesa (eleftheroi
epagelmaties) kai vlepoun thn poiothta twn parexomenwn yphresiwn
se olous tous tomeis na epideinwnetai anti na veltiwnetai logw tou ogkou
twn politwn pou tis apaitoun.
Poioi metanastes kai pou perasan kala ta prwta xronia?
H Ellada den einai kanenas oikonomikos paradeisos.
Den eimaste megalh xwra ki etoimh na kalyptoume oi ligoi dystyxws
egazomenoi tis anagkes olwn pou syrreoun. Den exoume tis dynameis.
Einai gegonos pws apo tis eisfores tous anapnefsan orismena tameia kai
mporoun na dinoun synta3eis stous synta3iouxous, alla ap thn allh=
epivarynetai
to dhmosio me thn ygeia kai thn paideia tous klp..
Symfwnw pws kai ta dyo afta ta dikaioutai o teleftaios anthrwpos ston=
planhth.
Den xwra amfivolia. Alla meta thn thewria ki h pra3h. Ki edw yparxoun=20
provlhmata
se olous tous tomeis p.x. mia kai yparxoun geitonies opou ta 3ena paidia
einai perissotera ap dika mas afou oi geitonies aftes katoikhthhkan apo=20
3enous.
Ta 3ena paidia zorizontai na vgaloun thn ylh giati den katalavainoun kala=
thn
glwssa, ta dika mas menoun pisw giati kathysterei h ylh opote anagkazontai
oi goneis na tous kanoun idiaitera ap to dhmotiko 'h na ta pane se idiwtika.
Ki afto gia viopalestes den einai efkolo.

>auta pou grafeis gia ta nosokomeia ta gnwrizw, edw kai
>xronia einai etsi kai gia ta Giannena eidika.
>
> Antexei o korvanas tetoio varos frontidas
> > kai perithalpshs gia anw
> > tou 1.5
> > ekatomyriou plhthysmou an laveis yp opsin kai tis
> > oikogeneies twn metanastwn
> > alla kai tous paranomous pou oudepote tous arnhthhke
> > kanena nosokomeio thn
> > dwrean perithalpsh!?!
> > Poso tha ante3oume? Ti eimaste h plousia xwra me ta
> > petrelaia kai to xrhma
> > na reei?
>

>me thn idia logikh, antexei to kratos na ependuei h na
>sunthrei koinwnikes paroxes? ean tis kanoume
>idiwtikes, tote gluitwnei to kratos xiliades
>ekatommuria.

Den ftasame akoma ekei. Afto tha einai katastrofh gia ton aplo
polith giati sthn ousia katargei thn epi isois orois pronoia gia olous.
Opoios thaxei lefta tha mporei, oi alloi vlepe usa.. kai oxi mono..

>8elw na pw oti se kratos-pronoias opws ta
>eyrwpaika (mexri twra dhladh) de bazeis kanones kai
>orous, h paideia kai h ugeia einai ga8a gia olous.

>Apa3 kai arxiseis, tote kanones kai diaxwrismoi
>mpainoun polu eukola kai stamathmo den 8a exoun.

Den valame kai nomizw den tha valoume mia kai prospathei h
politeia me osa mesa diathetei na afomiwsei siga siga osous
to epithymoun kai na tous enta3ei sthn koinwnia mas.
Alla thelei xrono kai prospatheies ki ap thn politeia (dhl. emas)
ki ap aftous. Kai oi dyo plevres exoun ypoxrewsh na prospathhsoun.

> Kai twra pou teleiwsan ta erga ths olympiadas ti tha
> > kanoun oi anthrwpoi?
> > H ellada ti mporei na kanei?
> > Afta ta erga eixe afto to pswmi prosefere.
>
>fusika. auto isxuei gia olous osous proslhf8hkan
>proswrina gia tous olumpiakous.
>
> > Esy mexri posous tha'vlepes pws mporei to systhma na
> > ante3ei??
>
>opoiosdhpote doulepse se ellhniko ergo dikaioutai to
>antistoixo epidoma anergias, dioti etsi einai to swsto
>kai to dikaio.

Ma fysika tha to paroun osoi to dikaiountai. Alla den tha to paroun osoi
einai paranomoi. Ki egw rwtaw apla opws se rwthsa kai sthn arxh.
Tha diw3eis kapoion pou exei anagkh na faei alla den exei fteia3ei ta
xartia tou?? Tha tou peis lypamai den mporw na se parw?
Ti na kanoume? to pio pithano na parei ligotera lefta ap ton nomimo ap
ton opoio tha ginoun kai krathseis tha plhrwthoun kai tameia klp..

> >> kamia doulitsa na vgaloun kanena fragko tote ormane
> > oloi kai fwnazoun
> > gia ekmetalefsh kai kakh symperifora!
>
>
>re Beatrikh, 8umasai tis filippinezes? spiti, faghto
>kai e3oda parastashs mhden, sun enan (usually) penixro
>mis8o, pou omws htan kaluteros apo tis eukairies stis
>Filippines. posoi ergodotes tous kratousan ta
>diabathria tous? auto den htan ekmetaleush kai as
>eixan faghto kai stegh?

Edw den tha symfwnhsw gia ton e3hs logo. Oi monoi 3enoi pou eixan ap
thn arxh plhrh kalypsh sta panta htan oi filippinezoi. Den tous evriskes=
sthn
eleftherh agora. Den mporouses na fereis filippineza an den ypegrafes
sthn presveia edw symvolaio dietes me sygkekrimeno mistho pou aftoi
sou orizan, 5nthhmero ergasia, ethsia adeia, IKA klp. eishthrio na erthoun
kai epistrofhs sthn lh3h tou symvolaiou.
An hthelan na erthoun pali den htan toso apla ap thn dikh tous plevra.
Den tous to epetrepe h xwra tous. Gia na mhn gevgei monima o plhthysmos=
tous.
Ti ekanan loipon?
Phgainan me diaforous tropous allazan onoma kai erxwntousan me allo
diavathrio! Allo symvolaio klp.klp.. Otan loipon esy hsouna xrewmenh me
ena atomo kai eixes symvatikes ypoxrewseis apenanti tou me thn presveia
tou sthn periptwsh pou sthn kopanage meta apo ligo kairo giati evriske kapou
allou kallitera me pio polla lefta, esy emenes kagkelo me to symvolaio kai
tis ypoxrewseis sto xeri. Ki eprepe na synexizeis na plhrwneis IKA klp..=
giati
alloiws tha mporousan na se katageiloun pws tous apelyses kai na diekdikoun
ta apo to symvolaio aporreonta dikaiwmata.
Tous kratoussan loipon ta diavathria ki eidopoiousan thn presveia oti to=20
kai to.
Ki otan h presveia tous aphllase ap aftes tis ypoxrewseis meta apo erevnes
pou ekane kai diapistwne klp.klp.. to paredides sthn presveia tous.
Akoma shmera einai sfikta ta pragmata ligotero men alla einai.
Kai h allagh diavathriou isxyei akoma kai shmera:-)
Kai lave yp opsin pws den sou doulevei Savatokyriako Filippineza makari na
xtypiesai katw. Exoun dika tous koinovia pou menoun Savato vrady mazevontai
ta lene, 3ekourazontai, diaskedazoun alla sto diko sou to spiti den menoun=
me
kamia dynamh!!
Genika oi Filippinezoi einai h pio dynath kai kala organwmenh koinwnika=
omada
3enwn sthn ellada.

> L.
>
>ean 8es, akouse h mallon diabase auto:
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/yy_ftf_athens_230704.shtml

Eri3a mia matia sta viastika kai dystyxws einai pragmata pou oloi ta=
3eroume.
Katholou efxarista alla se tetoio ogko ergwn kai pieshs xronou kalws 'h=
kakws
htan anamenomena!
Otan exeis kati xiliades 3enwn paranomwn anergwn pou den tous kaleses,
pou vrethhkan sta podia sou kai tyxainei na mporeis gia alfa diasthma na=
tous
apasxolhseis nomima-paranoma kleineis kai ta matia kai tous pairneis sthn
douleia giati o anthrwpos thn peina kai thn e3athliwsh den thn antexei, kaka
ta psemmata. Ki avrio to prwi an den kaneis kati tha vreis to koinwniko=20
provlhma
mprosta sou giati o dystyxos me to stomaxi na varaei tampourlo gia polles
meres tha vgei na klepsei, na xtyphsei klp..klp..
Ap thn allh meria sthn anabouboula o lykos xairetai! Kai vevaia ta korakia=
oi
ergolavoi pou parea me thn prohgoumenh kyvernhsh xa.i.devan ta erga gia
na ftasoume edw pou ftasame kai na ta plhrwnontai gia na ta teleiwsoun deka
fores epanw, fysika loipon ki aftoi na klepsan ap opou mporousan. Ki apo
merokamata ki ap ton Theo ton idio!
M' aresei omws pou h k. Kanellh h ek de3iwn ormhsasa kai sthn aristera
katalh3asa (adiaforo an katoikei eis villan Ekalhs pou profanws alvanoi tha
ektisan) gia na piasei kai thesoula sthn voulh poly noiazetai kai lypatai=
kai
wryetai (kai sthn tv syxna kai grafika) gia tis adikies twn ptwxwn ergatwn.
An den sthri3oume thn KKE-karekla mas tha spasei kai tha tsakistoume.

veatrikh
=20
--=====================_5198905==.ALT

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At 06:38 =EC=EC 5/8/2004, lida anestidou wrote:

<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">--- "V. Farmaki"

<easyt...@hol.gr> wrote: 
> Kaneis den tha to hthele afto!! 
> Alla eisai sigourh pws osoi ergazontousan sta erga 
> htan paranomoi? 
> Giati exoun parei karta paramonhs kai ergasias panw 
> apo 600.000 3enoi 
> ergates oi opoioi exoun plhrh kai idia dikaiwmata me 
> emena kai ton kathe 
> ellhna polith. 
oxi den eimai bebaih, omologw. Alla se rwtw, oloi osoi 
exoun adeia oparamonhs douleuoun me swstes kai nomimes 
sun8hkes ergasias? dhladh pairnoun IKA, enshma, 
apozhmiwseis kai idio mis8o me tous ellhnes? 8elw na 
pw, uparxoun diafora epipeda paranomias, me ton idio, 
omws, stoxo: thn elaxisth epibarunsh ths tsephs tou 
ergodoth. Kai epeita, enas me adeia paramonhs poso 
eleu8eros ais8anetai na kanei epishma parapona gia ton 
tropo kai sun8hkes proslhpshs kai ergasias tou?</blockquote> 
Oso exei ana ton kosmo! Oso exei ki =
o
Ellhnas! 
Otan exeis anagkh apo douleia tha pas sthn douleia kai 
an dexesai afta pou sou dinoun tha ergasteis alloiws tha 
perimeneis stis plateies stis 5-6 to prwi na se mazepsei kaneis 
na vgaleis merokamato. 
Mhn nomizeis pws einai efkolo na vreis ergath alvano 'h opoion 
allon me liga lefta! 3eroun poly kala ti prepei na paroun kai 
pazarevoun. Kai gia 6wro fysika! Sta xwria tous parakalane na 
pane sta xwrafia pou shmainei tous plhrwnoun kala. 
Den einai tyxaio pws oi perissoteroi toulaxiston alvanoi kai 
moldavoi exoun agorasei spitia sthn patrida tous! 
Apo kei kai pera se mia eleftherh oikonomia yparxoun oi efkairies 
alla kai oi dyskolies ths anagkhs ths zhthshs kai ths eparkeias. 
An evriskes esy gia na sou vapsoun to spiti enan polwno me x lefta 
ki enan allon me ligotera, systhmenoi ki oi dyo ypotithetai, tha epairnes
 
ton akrivotero?? 
Tha tou evazes kai IKA?? Ma mporei na htan kai paranomos! den tha 
ton epairnes? tha tou zhtages xartia? 
Ki an epefte apo mia skala kai tsakizotan? 
Den einai efkola ta pragmata kai shmasia exei na mporoun na 
epiviwsoun oloi aftoi pou 3evrazontai ston topo mas mexri na doun ti tha
 
kanoun an meinoun an pane allou klp.. xwris omws apaithseis na 
akolouthoun tous rythmous twn dikaiwmatwn twn ellhnwn ergazomenwn 
pou mia zwh plhrwnoun forous eite emesa (misthwtoi) eite amesa
(eleftheroi 
epagelmaties) kai vlepoun thn poiothta twn parexomenwn yphresiwn 
se olous tous tomeis na epideinwnetai anti na veltiwnetai logw tou ogkou
 
twn politwn pou tis apaitoun. 
Poioi metanastes kai pou perasan kala ta prwta xronia? 
H Ellada den einai kanenas oikonomikos paradeisos. 
Den eimaste megalh xwra ki etoimh na kalyptoume oi ligoi dystyxws 
egazomenoi tis anagkes olwn pou syrreoun. Den exoume tis dynameis. 
Einai gegonos pws apo tis eisfores tous anapnefsan orismena tameia kai
 
mporoun na dinoun synta3eis stous synta3iouxous, alla ap thn allh
epivarynetai 
to dhmosio me thn ygeia kai thn paideia tous klp.. 
Symfwnw pws kai ta dyo afta ta dikaioutai o teleftaios anthrwpos ston
planhth. 
Den xwra amfivolia. Alla meta thn thewria ki h pra3h. Ki edw yparxoun
provlhmata 
se olous tous tomeis p.x. mia kai yparxoun geitonies opou ta 3ena paidia
 
einai perissotera ap dika mas afou oi geitonies aftes katoikhthhkan apo
3enous. 
Ta 3ena paidia zorizontai na vgaloun thn ylh giati den katalavainoun kala
thn 
glwssa, ta dika mas menoun pisw giati kathysterei h ylh opote
anagkazontai 
oi goneis na tous kanoun idiaitera ap to dhmotiko 'h na ta pane se
idiwtika. 
Ki afto gia viopalestes den einai efkolo.  
 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">auta po=
u
grafeis gia ta nosokomeia ta gnwrizw, edw kai 
xronia einai etsi kai gia ta Giannena eidika. 
 Antexei o korvanas tetoio varos frontidas 
> kai perithalpshs gia anw 
> tou 1.5 
> ekatomyriou plhthysmou an laveis yp opsin kai tis 
> oikogeneies twn metanastwn 
> alla kai tous paranomous pou oudepote tous arnhthhke 
> kanena nosokomeio thn 
> dwrean perithalpsh!?! 
> Poso tha ante3oume? Ti eimaste h plousia xwra me ta 
> petrelaia kai to xrhma 
> na reei? 
me thn idia logikh, antexei to kratos na ependuei h na 
sunthrei koinwnikes paroxes? ean tis kanoume 
idiwtikes, tote gluitwnei to kratos xiliades 
ekatommuria. </blockquote> 
Den ftasame akoma ekei. Afto tha einai katastrofh
gia ton aplo 
polith giati sthn ousia katargei thn epi isois orois pronoia gia
olous. 
Opoios thaxei lefta tha mporei, oi alloi vlepe usa.. kai oxi mono..
 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">8elw na=
pw
oti se kratos-pronoias opws ta 
eyrwpaika (mexri twra dhladh) de bazeis kanones kai 
orous, h paideia kai h ugeia einai ga8a gia olous. 
Apa3 kai arxiseis, tote kanones kai diaxwrismoi 
mpainoun polu eukola kai stamathmo den 8a=20
exoun.</blockquote> 
Den valame kai nomizw den tha valoume mia kai
prospathei h 
politeia me osa mesa diathetei na afomiwsei siga siga osous 
to epithymoun kai na tous enta3ei sthn koinwnia mas. 
Alla thelei xrono kai prospatheies ki ap thn politeia (dhl. emas) 
ki ap aftous. Kai oi dyo plevres exoun ypoxrewsh na
prospathhsoun. 
> Kai twra pou teleiwsan ta erga ths olympiadas ti
tha 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">> kanoun oi anthrwpoi? 
> H ellada ti mporei na kanei? 
> Afta ta erga eixe afto to pswmi prosefere. 
fusika. auto isxuei gia olous osous proslhf8hkan 
proswrina gia tous olumpiakous. 
> Esy mexri posous tha'vlepes pws mporei to systhma na 
> ante3ei?? 
opoiosdhpote doulepse se ellhniko ergo dikaioutai to 
antistoixo epidoma anergias, dioti etsi einai to swsto 
kai to dikaio.</blockquote> 
Ma fysika tha to paroun osoi to dikaiountai. Alla
den tha to paroun osoi 
einai paranomoi. Ki egw rwtaw apla opws se rwthsa kai sthn arxh. 
Tha diw3eis kapoion pou exei anagkh na faei alla den exei fteia3ei ta
 
xartia tou?? Tha tou peis lypamai den mporw na se parw? 
Ti na kanoume? to pio pithano na parei ligotera lefta ap ton nomimo ap
 
ton opoio tha ginoun kai krathseis tha plhrwthoun kai tameia
klp.. 
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">>&gt=
;
kamia doulitsa na vgaloun kanena fragko tote ormane 
> oloi kai fwnazoun 
> gia ekmetalefsh kai kakh symperifora! 
 
re Beatrikh, 8umasai tis filippinezes? spiti, faghto 
kai e3oda parastashs mhden, sun enan (usually) penixro 
mis8o, pou omws htan kaluteros apo tis eukairies stis 
Filippines. posoi ergodotes tous kratousan ta 
diabathria tous? auto den htan ekmetaleush kai as 
eixan faghto kai stegh? 
</blockquote> 
Edw den tha symfwnhsw gia ton e3hs
logo. Oi monoi 3enoi pou eixan ap 
thn arxh plhrh kalypsh sta panta htan oi filippinezoi. Den tous evriskes
sthn 
eleftherh agora. Den mporouses na fereis filippineza an den ypegrafes
 
sthn presveia edw symvolaio dietes me sygkekrimeno mistho pou aftoi=20
 
sou orizan, 5nthhmero ergasia, ethsia adeia, IKA klp. eishthrio na
erthoun 
kai epistrofhs sthn lh3h tou symvolaiou. 
An hthelan na erthoun pali den htan toso apla ap thn dikh tous plevra.
 
Den tous to epetrepe h xwra tous. Gia na mhn gevgei monima o plhthysmos
tous. 
Ti ekanan loipon? 
Phgainan me diaforous tropous allazan onoma kai erxwntousan me allo=20
 
diavathrio! Allo symvolaio klp.klp.. Otan loipon esy hsouna xrewmenh me
 
ena atomo kai eixes symvatikes ypoxrewseis apenanti tou me thn presveia
 
tou sthn periptwsh pou sthn kopanage meta apo ligo kairo giati evriske
kapou 
allou kallitera me pio polla lefta, esy emenes kagkelo me to symvolaio
kai 
tis ypoxrewseis sto xeri. Ki eprepe na synexizeis na plhrwneis IKA klp..
giati 
alloiws tha mporousan na se katageiloun pws tous apelyses kai na
diekdikoun 
ta apo to symvolaio aporreonta dikaiwmata. 
Tous kratoussan loipon ta diavathria ki eidopoiousan thn presveia oti to
kai to. 
Ki otan h presveia tous aphllase ap aftes tis ypoxrewseis meta apo
erevnes 
pou ekane kai diapistwne klp.klp.. to paredides sthn presveia tous. 
 
Akoma shmera einai sfikta ta pragmata ligotero men alla einai. 
Kai h allagh diavathriou isxyei akoma kai shmera:-) 
Kai lave yp opsin pws den sou doulevei Savatokyriako Filippineza makari
na 
xtypiesai katw. Exoun dika tous koinovia pou menoun Savato vrady
mazevontai 
ta lene, 3ekourazontai, diaskedazoun alla sto diko sou to spiti den
menoun me 
kamia dynamh!! 
Genika oi Filippinezoi einai h pio dynath kai kala organwmenh koinwnika
omada 
3enwn sthn ellada.  
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><font=
size=3D3> L. 
ean 8es, akouse h mallon diabase auto: 
<a href=3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/yy_ftf_athens_230704.shtm=
l"=
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/yy_ftf_athens_23=
0704.shtml</a></blockquote> 
Eri3a mia matia sta viastika kai dystyxws einai pragmata pou oloi ta
3eroume. 
Katholou efxarista alla se tetoio ogko ergwn kai pieshs xronou kalws 'h
kakws 
htan anamenomena! 
Otan exeis kati xiliades 3enwn paranomwn anergwn pou den tous kaleses,
 
pou vrethhkan sta podia sou kai tyxainei na mporeis gia alfa diasthma na
tous 
apasxolhseis nomima-paranoma kleineis kai ta matia kai tous pairneis sthn
 
douleia giati o anthrwpos thn peina kai thn e3athliwsh den thn antexei,
kaka 
ta psemmata. Ki avrio to prwi an den kaneis kati tha vreis to koinwniko
provlhma 
mprosta sou giati o dystyxos me to stomaxi na varaei tampourlo gia polles
 
meres tha vgei na klepsei, na xtyphsei klp..klp.. 
Ap thn allh meria sthn anabouboula o lykos xairetai! Kai vevaia ta
korakia oi 
ergolavoi pou parea me thn prohgoumenh kyvernhsh xa.i.devan ta erga gia
 
na ftasoume edw pou ftasame kai na ta plhrwnontai gia na ta teleiwsoun
deka 
fores epanw, fysika loipon ki aftoi na klepsan ap opou mporousan. Ki apo
 
merokamata ki ap ton Theo ton idio! 
M' aresei omws pou h k. Kanellh h ek de3iwn ormhsasa kai sthn aristera
 
katalh3asa (adiaforo an katoikei eis villan Ekalhs pou profanws alvanoi
tha 
ektisan) gia na piasei kai thesoula sthn voulh poly noiazetai kai lypatai
kai 
wryetai (kai sthn tv syxna kai grafika) gia tis adikies twn ptwxwn
ergatwn. 
An den sthri3oume thn KKE-karekla mas tha spasei kai tha
tsakistoume. 
veatrikh 
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